PRIDE versus acceptance

[Inna]

Well, here is INNA once again not wanting to disappoint, controversy galore, but speak my mind I will........not that anyone needs to listen, lol.

I have been asked by a trans friend to appear in the PRIDE march in our area, even though I already had a preconceived notion about such I started to entertain the remote possibility, that is until she said these words: " We will be marching under, Chicks with di...s, banner!"
I gasped for air, my face must have turned to translucent, cause she kind of looked through me with puzzlement in her eyes!

Not believing my ears, I asked for her to repeat what she just said because I for sure misunderstood the last part of it.....well, I did not mistook the last part.

I politely asked "are you out of your mind.....honey" and proceeded to try to understand her reasoning making such event OK for her to attend.

My conversation opened up a slew of reasons why society views trans as negative, derogatory and simply dirty, and that her actions while attending such absurd event will promote only such factors.

So here is the question at hand, as we approach the PRIDE season, and major towns put on a festival of Gay, Lesbian, trans freedom, marches and demonstrations galore! While watching some footage from past events I can't stop but feel, that these demonstrations, instead of promoting equality, normalcy, and citizenry, do exactly opposite, with Drag Queens draggin, gay boys butt naked, lesbians, well I really never seen anything really dreadful with them, lol, and banners such as "Chicks with Di...s" all those really promote is how Freaky this bunch of misfits really is.

So.........Do you support the PRIDE events or would you rather stay home and be just as mundane and boring as the rest of NORMAL people around ( WARNING! trick question ) :devil:

[Kaz]

Great thread Inna! I love controversies! This I think comes down to whether we are truly transgendered or just want to be accepted in whatever mode/role we wish to portray. Whilst I am in awe of and totally respect all of us who transition and/or go the full SRS route, this is not for me. However, if I appear in public (or even at home in full Kaz mode) I want to look like a woman, not a guy in a dress, or a ch**k with a d**k! So I am also stunned by some of these displays which probably do as much to turn the public off as they do to educate. There is also a fine line between what some would see as a gender issue and others as pornographic hedonism. Don't get me wrong, I am open and accepting of anything that doesn't involve damaging other people (and/or animals), but do I want to see it on the streets?

It is difficult. What PRIDE are trying to do hits many of the right buttons... and education and awareness are so so important... BUT... the messages people take away from these events are what shapes their perception of everyone in the 'community'. These perceptions need to be positive.

What a wonderful and varied world we live in.

[Cheryl T]

I support the PRIDE events but would never consider marching under such a banner. I think that is degrading and also brings to the public eye a negative connotation when we are trying to promote positive things in the community.
I also agree that the half naked displays are out of place and conducive to negative reactions by the general public and should be discouraged.

[Kathryn Martin]

I will attend a number of pride events, receptions and the like. I am proud to be a woman who supports transgender and transsexual persons in their struggle.

I would not be caught dead marching in a pride march precisely because of this kind of stuff. And I am entirely dickless:D:straightface::o:brolleyes::o

[Chickhe]

Personally, in general I'm really tired of seeing 'in your face', basically rudeness from any group. Its just not enjoyable to look at and as a parent its not really something you would want your kids to see... or something your parents would be proud of either. Having such a sign would make your group look like a bunch of immature drag queens... IMO. It may be better to go for subtle humor... or if you want to include people instead, just make the sign say something like 'guys just want to have fun too'. Note, also your sign doesn't consider F2M people either.

[Frances]

I object to the automatic link in a lot of people's minds between transsexuality and prostitution or entertainment. People change sex to feel better about themselves, not to become objects of fantasy or to make them laugh. Parades are all about entertainment, regardless of the reason for having it. I will not put on a costume and march to amuse spectators. That banner is so offensive, that my reservations have nothing to do with the outrage that I feel about it. Those people are doing a lot of harm to the rest of us.

[Jackiefl]

I beleive pride,confidence and class are not a part of that banner. I myself would not march. It,s just to degradeing for good pr.

[Inna]

I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY, WE ARE MISSING THE POINT as a group!

As I grow and get ever so closer to wholeness within my own SELF, I realize that everything I do and subscribe to is in the spirit of NORMALCY. I tended to think that all the trans folks were after exactly the same, but was rather naive and soon discovered that majority subscribed to much different path.

As I understand GAY and LESBIAN movement, it is simply all about freedom of sexual expression, and not so much to do with particulars of GENDER.

I slowly start to understand how few outspoken trans-activists do draw a line and seem disappointed by being tossed into the same basket of LGBT.

So PRIDE events are very sexually charged, and as I see it now, that is fine for the LG part of the community but I stand aside and feel discomfort of sexuality out in the open!

I will promote and be part of any event or action which promotes family values, neighborly ways, and poised behavior however, it seems to be a double edge sward, because as soon as we proclaim trans-anything, most of the folks will walk away due to a stigma still attached to transness.

[JackieMarie]

I think that banner idea is absurd. But i support pride regardless, its up to each community to portray themselves in a way that helps rather than hurts

[LeaP]

... " We will be marching under, Chicks with di...s, banner!" ...

While watching some footage from past events I can't stop but feel, that these demonstrations, instead of promoting equality, normalcy, and citizenry, do exactly opposite, with Drag Queens draggin, gay boys butt naked, lesbians, well I really never seen anything really dreadful with them, lol, and banners such as "Chicks with Di...s" all those really promote is how Freaky this bunch of misfits really is. ...

As succint an argument for separatism as could be made.

Wow. Especially the banner.

[Jorja]

This is precisely why I do not attend nor affiliate with Pride or any other organization. Thier immature attitudes and actions in public set us as well as themselves back at least 10 years each and every year. I have lived 25 years without the help of an organization like Pride, I am positive I can live out the rest of my life without them.

[Traci Elizabeth]

SINCE YOU ASKED FOR OPINIONS AND/OR WHAT WE WOULD DO AS INDIVIDUALS, I am in Kate Smith's corner on this issue. NEVER EVER NEVER tell anyone you are trans if you want to be accepted and considered a woman!

I have never been involved in ANY Pride activities and feel I have nothing in common with them. Furthermore, my being a Lesbian is a private issue not for public consumption.

Don't get me wrong, I do think the Pride organization has "some" value for those who need that association. But I see NO value in marching down the street proclaiming your LGBT status other than to be a carnival act likened to the Barnum and Baily Circus coming to town.

There are other ways to facilitate change that can be more effective. Our beloved Kathryn Martin for example, is an attorney and has represented a case(s) for the an individual(s) in the LGBT community. I commend her for that effort(s).

Bottom line for me - I am a woman like all other women. I am not a guy, I am not a transgender person, and I am not a transsexual. In my past yes but even then I never broadcasted it to the world other than on here.

[Kathryn Martin]

I think you are beginning to realize that being transsexual is a completely kettle of fish. We don't do this because of any thrill that being of another gender might be, we transition to finally achieve normalcy and to get on with life. We are very different from being gender variant, because our gender is not the issue but rather our sex. We don't wonder how it would be to expand on our gender we are firmly rooted in one gender. In this we are exactly like cis-gender persons. The confusion arises when we doubt who we are because our body seems to say something different then our self.

Gay and lesbian persons have by and large no gender issues unless they are transsexuals, which are completely separate from being gay or lesbian. I am not sure that their issues can be characterized as "freedom of sexual expression" because it raises the question freedom from what? - to be hetero normal. They just love persons of the same sex and have intimate relationships with them.

It is transsexual and intersexed persons who feel that they are short thrifted by being thrown into the LGBTQI basket. We represent a fight for normalcy while the rest of the community seeks recognition. If we don't make clear this difference we will never gain traction for the very specific health and legal issues connected with being transsexual.

While we like intimacy like the next person, it belongs into our bedrooms (and sometimes other private places) not into a pride parade. It embarrasses me to display my sexuality in public.




I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY, WE ARE MISSING THE POINT as a group!

As I grow and get ever so closer to wholeness within my own SELF, I realize that everything I do and subscribe to is in the spirit of NORMALCY. I tended to think that all the trans folks were after exactly the same, but was rather naive and soon discovered that majority subscribed to much different path.

As I understand GAY and LESBIAN movement, it is simply all about freedom of sexual expression, and not so much to do with particulars of GENDER.

I slowly start to understand how few outspoken trans-activists do draw a line and seem disappointed by being tossed into the same basket of LGBT.

So PRIDE events are very sexually charged, and as I see it now, that is fine for the LG part of the community but I stand aside and feel discomfort of sexuality out in the open!

I will promote and be part of any event or action which promotes family values, neighborly ways, and poised behavior however, it seems to be a double edge sward, because as soon as we proclaim trans-anything, most of the folks will walk away due to a stigma still attached to transness.

[Kathryn Martin]

How apt is this:

Halifax Pride to be 'less promiscuous' this year (http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Halifax_Pride_to_be_less_promiscuous_this_year-10256.aspx)

[Badtranny]

I would never parade myself under a banner like that. Hell, I'm not one to parade myself at all under any circumstances. I have been openly gay, openly trans and now a post transition woman. The pride events have never tickled my fancy and I'm sure I would feel like a fish out of water at something like that. Kinda like a county fair with no dress code.

Having said all that, I have no issue with the people who enjoy that sort of thing. I think it's entirely okay and probably productive to offend mainstream society on occasion. A group of Drag Queens and Cross Dressers marching under a mildly offensive banner is no threat to me. My life is so mundane and horrifyingly normal that only the most bigoted transphobe would confuse people like me with people like them. Come to think of it, I quite enjoy the contrast.

For those that are offended to the point of banning such displays of naked frivolity, consider that gay pride parades were once the exclusive domain of the assless chaps crowd and now you will find that gay parents with kids in tow tend to outnumber the more provocative revelers. Time will continue to march long after the parades have ended and it won't be too long before being Trans is no more unusual than being a gay decorator. Let the wild ones have their fun. If it were up to me, it would be a Trans Pride cocktail followed by a nap. That's not the kind of thing that riles up the conservative folks, and that's a crowd that is just begging to be riled up.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Inna,

I fully support the Gay and Transgendered communities right to march up and down streets proudly proclaiming who and what they are.
With that being said I find your friends groups marching banner " Chicks with D7cks " both disgusting and damaging to the Transsexual and Intersexed communities.

I find one of the reasons as to why we are not farther along as a community as a whole is because of the indelible imprint of glammed up drag queens, men with beards wearing dresses, twinks wearing nothing but loin cloths and the Bear Community wearing close to @ss less chaps riding on floats and garnering the attention of the 11:00 O'clock news one of the single most damaging things to do to the transsexual and Intersexed communities.

To this day after many years of Gay pride parades and events it still leaves a horrible and nasty taste in the mouth of John and Jane Doe who have been subjected to this over and over year after year.

It does not desensitize, it polarizes.

I will never march in one, I will never attend one because of this.


Julia

[ReineD]

My SO and I became friends with a lesbian years ago who tried very hard to "de-sexualize" the gay community in her town. She was tired of having clubs/bars/ect be the only venue for open affection and companionship that coupled with free-flowing alcohol, also became synonymous with promiscuous behavior. She wanted to open a Community House that offered resources, education, a hang-out place where there was no alcohol involved, in short a place that would encourage gays and lesbians to be themselves and encourage them to go out in the sunlight and interact openly with the community at large, perhaps through volunteering efforts.

Her efforts were not well received in the gay community. People felt she was encroaching on their turfs and telling them how they should lead their lives.

I also would like to see Pride Week events depart from the flamboyant stereotypes and lose the caricature themes, not just for transfolks but for gays as well. Sounds like the Halifax group recognizes that keeping it free of promiscuity is the best way to garner general acceptance and support.

So tell me, do gay men see really themselves as chicks with dicks, or is this some effort at a nod towards the trans community? Someone should educate these people and tell them their behavior is offensive to transpersons.

On the other hand, there are people who do fall in between the genders, but they are not necessarily homosexual and again, there is no reason to portray such people in flamboyant getups and pageantry.

[Bree-asaurus]

So tell me, do gay men see really themselves as chicks with dicks, or is this some effort at a nod towards the trans community? Someone should educate these people and tell them their behavior is offensive to transpersons.

On the other hand, there are people who do fall in between the genders, but they are not necessarily homosexual and again, there is no reason to portray such people in flamboyant getups and pageantry.

I haven't met a single gay person that thought he was a chick with a dick. And I think saying that a flamboyant gay person being flamboyant is offensive to transpeople is the same as saying cisgendered people acting all cisgendered is offensive as well. They're just being themselves. The gay people that aren't all super flamboyant and 'look at me' are at home or hanging out with their friends while the bouncy gays bounce around on parade.

Most of the gay people I know are pretty average and down to earth. If they had a parade, it would be pretty boring. There would be good food and heavy drinks though! :D

EDIT: Oh yeah... and I think the parades are sooo in-your-face gay because society still has issues with gay people. It's kind of like "Oh, you don't like that I'm gay? Well how about if I wear this bra and jock strap while being gay! Don't like that either??? TOO BAD!!!" And it looks like they're just having buckets of fun, so why rain on their parade? :P

[ReineD]

I haven't met a single gay person that thought he was a chick with a dick. And I think saying that a flamboyant gay person being flamboyant is offensive to transpeople is the same as saying cisgendered people acting all cisgendered is offensive as well. They're just being themselves.


I still don't get it though. Why, if they identify solidly as men and if they are attracted to men who look like men, would they feel as if an outrageous feminine expression accurately portrays who they are?

There's the same conundrum in my small town. I've become sort of friendly with the local drag queen (who BTW has had FFS, breast implants but who is SOLIDLY gay and entrenched in the gay community). When she's on stage, all the gay guys run up to the stage to put $ bills in her outfit and they most definitely enjoy her presentation. She has a devout following. Are they sexually attracted to her presentation as a female? Yet these same gay men seem to not want to look twice at regular CDers. :strugglin

Edit - Maybe they like the real boobs and not the silicone? :strugglin

[Bree-asaurus]

I still don't get it though. Why, if they identify solidly as men, would they feel as if an outrageous feminine expression accurately portrays who they are?

Because the homophobes say that only women can like men? Being gay breaks the traditional views of sexuality, and so does a man wearing a dress? I dunno... random guesses... and I'm sure it's evolved over the years.

But while you ask why, I ask, why not? If more people could take a LITTLE bit of what those flamboyant gays have and apply it to their lives, allow themselves to not be so guided by strict social views, let themselves have fun and throw caution to the wind, we would all be happier.

[ReineD]

So it's about celebrating anyone who breaks any barrier. I guess I can understand that, thanks.

The issue though, as has been often said here, is their visibility in the community informs the general populace's views that anyone who breaks gender barriers must be a flamboyant gay who does this for parody. So the only solution then is for members of the TS Community to have just as much visibility to help people understand the difference between transsexuality and flamboyant gay males. But this would mean not being stealth, which is difficult.

[Bree-asaurus]

So it's about celebrating anyone who breaks any barrier. I guess I can understand that, thanks.

The issue though, as has been often said here, is their visibility in the community informs the general populace's views that anyone who breaks gender barriers must be a flamboyant gay who does this for parody.

I'm just guessing... lol... just my opinion of things as I see it. The people who actually take part in the events could probably give you a better answer.

I do agree that the lines get blurred this way... but what can we really do about it? Tell one group of people they can't be themselves because we want another group of people to be themselves? It's just going to take time and education. If we want to be heard, we need to get out there and shout. That's what gays did, what women did, what blacks did, etc.

[Frances]

I'm just guessing... lol... just my opinion of things as I see it. The people who actually take part in the events could probably give you a better answer.

I do agree that the lines get blurred this way... but what can we really do about it? Tell one group of people they can't be themselves because we want another group of people to be themselves? It's just going to take time and education. If we want to be heard, we need to get out there and shout. That's what gays did, what women did, what blacks did, etc.

But some of us do not have dicks and are therefore not chicks with dicks.

[pamela_a]

This is a wonderful example of why I do everything I can to distance myself from "the community". I have absolutely NOTHING in common with them. I am a woman who was born with a birth defect that, thankfully, has been corrected.


But some of us do not have dicks and are therefore not chicks with dicks.

People like us are called women Frances. Even pre-op I can't think of anything more gross, disgusting or degrading than that.

[Kathryn Martin]

I don't think there is such a thing as "the community". It is an illusion. Most of the people which are claimed to be members have nothing in common.

I also wonder whether there is this weird prejudice about gay persons displayed here. Of course there is this level at which promiscuity, cruising, etc are prevalent, but that is true for trans persons of every stripe as well. It is the remnant of being pushed into the seedy underbelly of society because of circumstances and prejudice against trans, gay, queer persons.

Most gay persons are just hard working, intelligent, family oriented, artistic, professional people, like us. The few are always found in every grouping that take the edge across the edge.

When the day comes that being trans, gay, lesbian, queer is normal we really have nothing in common anymore, other than some memory of being pushed down so others can feel a sense of elevation.

[Badtranny]

So it's about celebrating anyone who breaks any barrier. I guess I can understand that, thanks.

The feminine or queeny gay man has no place to hide. Your average CD would be terrified at the prospect that everyone could see who they were just by looking at them.

Femmy queers are shunned by a good part of the gay community, (no fats no fems) and they're also the first to suffer hate crimes because they are brave enough to not hide their light under a bushel. If flamboyant homosexuals want to have a parade, I say let 'em have it because their very existence challenges society to accept them. The "straight acting" trend in the gay world has a disingenuous feel to me. The feminine gay man is the truth and they have earned their freedom the hard way. Chicks with dicks also have every right to stake their place in the march for freedom. It becomes soooooo tiresome to read so many deeply closeted individuals critiquing the movements of people that without whom there would be no movement.

I fully understand there are many CD's who are perfectly lovely people who live perfectly normal lives and have no wish to be flamboyant. Unfortunately most of them are invisible for whatever reason. If you want to be invisible fine, that is your right and I support it, but don't peek out of your closet and try to direct the actions of the brave souls doing the work. If it weren't for these people pushing the envelope and forcing polite society to take notice that the world is indeed more colorful than the gated community center, then the closeted CD's dream of acceptance would surely never be realized.

...and for my TS sisters who don't like the "dudes with boobs" parade, I got no quarrel with you, but please remember that there is a rather large segment of society that would prefer that we don't exist either.

[Farrah]

I'm just sad that CD's have to be grouped with all the tom-foolery!!...CD's should have their own parade to show people that we are not freaks and we do not seek attention. We would just want to sort of blend in...

[Bree-asaurus]

I'm just sad that CD's have to be grouped with all the tom-foolery!!...CD's should have their own parade to show people that we are not freaks and we do not seek attention. We would just want to sort of blend in...

Let's have a gay parade, a lesbian parade, a cross dresser parade, a transgender parade, a transsexual parade, an intersex parade... lol... so many parades!

[ReineD]

What about a cismale parade, and a cisfemale parade.

Oh, and a kid parade. But, we can put all the kids in the same group and they'd all have a great time! :)

... come to think of it, we could learn a thing or two from the kids. :D

[Bree-asaurus]

What about a cismale parade, and a cisfemale parade.

Oh, and a kid parade. But, we can put all the kids in the same group and they'd all have a great time! :)

... come to think of it, we could learn a thing or two from the kids. :D

Yup! The only discrimination kids know is what you teach them!

[Princess Jen]

I had a friend take me to watch a pride parade a few years ago. While it did not seem sexually themed in general, I saw a lot of banners that were about acceptance and support, there were of course a few vulgar exhibits that I did not really care for myself.

However small, I expected to see some TG presence there but ultimately found none. I began to wonder if all the hairy chested and bikini clad men in the "drag race" scared them off? :heehee:

[LeaP]

Chicks with dicks also have every right to stake their place in the march for freedom. It becomes soooooo tiresome to read so many deeply closeted individuals critiquing the movements of people that without whom there would be no movement.

You make a lot of good points, but I draw the line at things that affect others. Chicks with dicks, when highlighted in a public event and blasted all over the news, becomes the public perception of trans people, just as does the presentation of tranny prostitutes in the movies, or the weird people on Jerry Springer. It's a problem. It's a problem for me right now, at home.

[Frances]

What about a cismale parade, and a cisfemale parade.

Oh, and a kid parade. But, we can put all the kids in the same group and they'd all have a great time! :)

... come to think of it, we could learn a thing or two from the kids. :D

I'm in one everyday going to work or going shopping. It's not very entertaining.

[Sally24]

Let's have a gay parade, a lesbian parade, a cross dresser parade, a transgender parade, a transsexual parade, an intersex parade... lol... so many parades!

I do love parades! But getting to work thru all those parades would be a nightmare!:devil:

I find some of the displays and signs at Pride to be disquieting. Unfortunately alot of the mainstream finds it all disquieting, which I think is the main reason to have them. While I would not march under the "Chicks with d**ks sign I support their right to do it.

At least Pride in Boston has a large TG/TS presence both MTF and FTM. I'm surprised it's not the same everywhere.

[Frances]

While I would not march under the "Chicks with d**ks sign I support their right to do it.

...If they represent sex workers from the porn industry. If they represent transsexual people, I will have none of it.

[Badtranny]

It's a problem for me right now, at home.

I understand Lea, and I sympathize. Transition is an emotional wrecking ball.

...but we need to look outside of ourselves and see that the issue of wide acceptance is much bigger than any one person or group. The door to freedom is shut tight and sometimes a boot is the only way to get it open. These people on the fringe have no option but to be that boot. The mainstream doesn't want 'em and we don't want 'em. They exist in spite of us. They are there to remind us that a good portion of the world hates us too. Remember, we can't hide.

[Lorileah]

I have two sides about PRIDE.

I love it because it lets people be "who they are" for a few days. It is Mardi Gras for the LGBT community. It is a season of license. A time to let go, go crazy! It gets the community out in daylight. I saw so many young people using it as an excuse to make out in public (or to bare way more skin than they should) Any publicity is good publicity...right?

Therein lies the other side. I like the hype, the parties and such but it really does come at a cost. The cost is that the fringes get the notice. That is what gets shown to the world. Things like what you describe is totally for shock and impact value. Unfortunately we sacrifice what we really seek just to get attention. Honestly when you mention TS in many circles what the listener sees in their mind is the "Ladyboys" that fill the net now. You mention crossdressing and RuPaul and her merry band of psychotics come up.

One has to draw their own line in the sand, just like what we do here everyday. Where you line is varies. Personally I think you were right to be insulted and hurt. 90% of the people in this section of the forum would be. After all, it isn't what we wish to portray. Maybe we need to show the warts and all to get people to pay attention to what lies beneath.

[Inna]

It simply is all about the STIGMA!!!

Since a child of 7 I yearned to be NORMAL, oh how I needed to be just one of the girls, but life have adorn a crown of thorns and sent me amongst confusion and anguish. Since then all I wanted is freedom of normalcy, not flamboyant proclamation of my wright to be weird or controversial, but mere normal and average. Someone a neighboring of a young family with 3 kids would love to hang out with at the picnic, would leave their 3 kids for babysitting over night while on the romantic outing. Someone who wouldn't stir up a controversy while going to airport bathroom, someone just being anyone.

[kimdl93]

my reaction to the more outlandish Pride events is a mixture of understanding and a degree of revulsion. I'm personally a very private, reticent individual. It would never be my thing to participate in some over-the-top, sexualized parade. But I do understand the desire to do something sensational, since that seems to be the only way to get attention. And I guess in some ways, I'm a bit envious in that I could never bring myself to be as overtly provocative as some people are able to.

As a TG person, I strive to blend...so these events and banners like the one mentioned are opposite of what I am trying to acheive. Still, I understand that sometimes it takes greater force to break down barriers...and maybe pushing things to the extremes helps expand the boundaries within our culture for those of us who really prefer a more conventional degree of acceptance.

[DeeDee1974]

I just don't see the pride events as a place to educate others about what it is to be transsexual. I just want people to know that I am normal. I feel like the parades glorify the flamboyant. My pride is shown everyday when I get up and go to work or go shopping at the grocery store. I treat others with respect and expect the same in return.

[Inna]

This might be offensive, but I'll have a go anyway, hope I won't get the black eye !?

The best analogy I can suffice, "Medical surgeons do not advertize their achievements nor seek publicity through dressing like butchers in bloody white aprons!"
"Police officers league does not put on a parody of Rodney Kings style beatings to get support in their jurisdiction"
"Politicians do not seek votes by putting on satirical money laundering displays on their campaign commercials"

And so, to promote understanding and wide spread likability, all civilized folks do show their best side forward, Not their controversial, often true, yet reserved to few, mishaps and tumbles.
And so as long as these parades remain a parody promoting the worst in the community, I shall abstain from participation.

[Lorileah]

And so as long as these parades remain a parody promoting the worst in the community, I shall abstain from participation.

and there ya go, you can't explain it any better than that. Don't participate in the parade, go to the fair after if you like so you can mingle (here we had a couple booths for TS and GID people as well as several churches who wanted LGBT participation, they could use your support). I think most here will agree the Season of License type of parade is really no more representative of the majority of TG people than the Mardi Gras is representative of the Catholic church

[Xrys]

I just don't understand some people sometimes. Why do they have to rub people's faces in who they are. Those that are oposed most strongly are only going to have more reasons to hate us for such blatant and spiteful actions. I have said both of these things before, but in seprate threads, but I will repeat them both here.

1: there are people in this world who just simply take things too extremes. Unfortunately, it is these people who are most likely to show up to "Pride" events.

2: those of us that get the most media exposure, seem to be the ones that paint the worst possible image of us.

Pride marches do not seem to me to be about promoting acceptance, but instead of people trying to get revenge on society. It is a never ending circle of escalation that only makes things worse on the rest of us. They make a big show and act out, society hates us more, society in general acts out against all of us, people get riled up and want revenge, and during the next pride march, things escalate. We will never be accepted if we keep letting some of these people represent us in the public eye. But with the media being as it is these days, not acting in the extreme and making a fool of yourself wil not get you any media attention. I gues it is the true issue. That is why every group of likeminded people have a hard time making a good public view of themselves. The media only seems to focus on the worst part of any group. It is the same way with Christians if you think about it. It is human nature. most good experiences go unshared and forgotten, but every negative expeience gets more exposure. I gues acting out is the ONLY way to get any kind of attention in our society, it sucks, but that is just the way it is.

[LeaP]

and there ya go, you can't explain it any better than that. Don't participate in the parade, go to the fair after if you like so you can mingle (here we had a couple booths for TS and GID people as well as several churches who wanted LGBT participation, they could use your support). I think most here will agree the Season of License type of parade is really no more representative of the majority of TG people than the Mardi Gras is representative of the Catholic church

It's a really interesting analogy and it's been on my mind since you posted it. It suffers from a few flaws, though, including lack of broad cultural acceptance (for pride, that is), and public perception being very different. There is excess, to be sure, in both. But where Mardi Gras is not viewed as representative, pride parades are.

[Bree-asaurus]

I just don't understand some people sometimes. Why do they have to rub people's faces in who they are.

[...]

I gues acting out is the ONLY way to get any kind of attention in our society, it sucks, but that is just the way it is.

I think you answered your own question...

How can you have a revolution without ruffling a few feathers?

[pamela_a]

I understand Lea, and I sympathize. Transition is an emotional wrecking ball.

...but we need to look outside of ourselves and see that the issue of wide acceptance is much bigger than any one person or group. The door to freedom is shut tight and sometimes a boot is the only way to get it open. These people on the fringe have no option but to be that boot. The mainstream doesn't want 'em and we don't want 'em. They exist in spite of us. They are there to remind us that a good portion of the world hates us too. Remember, we can't hide.

I'm sorry but I need to absolutely disagree with this. Transition is 100% about ourselves. Nobody else in the world matters one iota. Let the walking dildos, bearded "ladies", and furry males running around in just a bra and chaps go their happy way, I want NOTHING to do with them.

[Badtranny]

I'm sorry but I need to absolutely disagree with this.

It's my lot in life to be disagreed with. I'm okay with it. ;-)


Transition is 100% about ourselves. Nobody else in the world matters one iota.

Well, in my case there is a lot of people I need to consider. A lot of my time is spent helping my professional relationships feel comfortable with my change. Pretty much ALL of the people in my world matter quite a bit, or at least a little more than an iota. There was a time when my transition WAS all about me. But when I went public with it, and when I fully transitioned, there were other people's feelings to contend with.

It's my opinion that a successful and prosperous transition does indeed require us to look outside of ourselves.

[pamela_a]

It's my lot in life to be disagreed with. I'm okay with it. ;-)



Well, in my case there is a lot of people I need to consider. A lot of my time is spent helping my professional relationships feel comfortable with my change. Pretty much ALL of the people in my world matter quite a bit, or at least a little more than an iota. There was a time when my transition WAS all about me. But when I went public with it, and when I fully transitioned, there were other people's feelings to contend with.

It's my opinion that a successful and prosperous transition does indeed require us to look outside of ourselves.

Ok, I'll give you that and actually agree with you...to a certain point. You're right that transition isn't done in a vacuum and people supporting you does make it much easier.

I was thinking of the people I know as well as those here who say they "can't" because of what "everyone else" might think or say.