Absolute sadness!

[Darla]

Hi there - most Of my posts revolve around what types of hosiery are best, or how to best achieve an hourglass figure, bu honestly there comes a time of reckoning in any girls life about what makes one happy and how one can final acceptance in this life.

I can't begone to describe the sadness and feeling of aloneness in being who I think I am. I'm a crossdresser - probably not a TG, but in a relationship with a non accepting spouse who is in denial and who "just wants it to all go away". I'm married and with two wonderful children who I love from the depths of all my heart. But I'm afraid that I might never be accepted for who I am, or who I think I am.

I've dressed in clothes for all my life, but was never honest with myself or my wife in what I wan out of dressing. I didn't tell her before marriage, but just alluded to it. Now I know that I want to dress as a woman ( despite the fact that I really don't think I can pass) and feel wha it's like to go all the way to being a woman for at least part of my life.

I'm faced by a non accepting spouse who is nauseated by my needs, and I feel so alone and trapped. I don't want to destroy my marriage, as I truly love my wife, but can't believe that she can't accept a small part of me. In therapy it's a different story, but outside I feel bullied and emotionally abused. I should never have opened up about this. I entered into a deal where I dIdnt want to lie about hiding it only to have it all taken away. How can someone who professes such love for me show such hatred for this part of me? I would never do this to her - why. Ant I have the same sense of acceptance I would hope to afford her in anything else?

I feel like her love for me is a lie, and that I'm destined for a divorce. All the love we had is superseded by the adherence to the social norms. Was it always this weak?

I feel so hopeless. I'm not asking for the pity or understanding of anyone on this forum. I just want to know that acceptance of who I am might be a possibility, even through the possibility of a lot of future pain.

Darla

[Debglam]

I'm so sorry Darla.

Will she attend counselling with you? It may be helpful but I would suggest making sure that whoever you see understands the whole trans thing.

Good luck,
Debby

[Jacqueline Winona]

Darla, it's tough and I understand where you're coming from, my situation isn't a lot different. In your wife's defense, I don't think her love for you is a lie at all if the only issue is your dressing. She doesn't like it and really there isn't anything you can do to make her like it. But it doesn't mean you can't get by. I don't know enough about your situation to know if it's possible to have the classic "see no evil, speak no evil" or "don't ask, don't tell" relationship, but for many of us that's where we get. No, we'll never get the full acceptance, encouragment, or participation but it's not all bad. I can't tell you divorce isn't going to happen, but don't think it's inevitable. You can get through this, it won't always be easy and you'll have to give up some of your wishes and desires, but fight on for the family. Just know that you tried, and there's nothing more you can do at this point. And don't feel that you need to talk it out right now, or necessarily ever- if things seem to change for the better, then you can go through it again, but if all signs indicate she wants to hear nothing more, there really isn't any reason to bring it up again.

[Marleena]

Ughh I hate these kind of threads...

I agree to try to get her to go to counselling with you. Does she not understand that this is not something you chose and there is no magic cure? If counselling is a no go you better hide this from her as it sounds like she made up her mind that she can't and won't accept it. You can't put the blame on her for not accepting some wives can't/ won't.

[Sonya]

totally understand what you are saying, it is all so difficult to deal with but life goes on

[Eryn]

Darla, unfortunately many wives find it very difficult to fathom the depth of CDing. They cannot imagine what drives us because there is no symmetrical situation in their experience so they tend to trivialize CDing as "dressing up" or worse, as a perversion.

Counseling is certainly a viable option and you should both be involved. If you both love each other as you say you will be able to find a workable middle ground. Remember, it's a process that will take time so don't expect instant results.

[Leah Lynn]

I can toally relate. My wife doesn't like it; won't accept it. She's 100% disabled, including blind, so my concience won't allow me to divorce her. She can't climb stairs, so sleeps down and I use the upstairs. I can dress a little every evening and live a little vicariously via internet.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm sorry you're hurting, Darla! As I'm divorced, I'm not qualified to comment on that part of your post.

However, I'm quite curious why u, "---feel I'm a CD and probably not a TG". I assume u meant, "--not a TS."? However, if I felt like I wanted to go around dressed as a woman, I mite think I was TS! I consider myself "simply a CD" and I'm very satisfied to dress only occasionally.

[Noemi]

Darla,

Oh Honey this is terrible news(hug hug hug)

I can feel your pain right through your words. It can be very difficult to be a CDer.
People do not understand us at all.

I am sure you mean no harm to your family, we just hit a certain age and, well, grow tired of not being able to express our feminine selves.
I am not married but started reading your post, and feel compassionate towards you.

Marleena's got it right.

Sometimes it is better for us to leave the jinie in the bottle, but I can not blame you for trying. I am not out to my family, father and brothers, because they would never, ever, understand.

♥♥♥
Noemi

[JenniferR771]

So sad, Darla. My situation has a few elements of the same thing. I think Janice and others are right. She is being selfish and domineering. Marriage till death do us part (except...). Have a talk with a higher authority (like God), chances are he will forgive you and approve a don't ask, don't tell policy. You are correct--you are being emotionally abused. Try to find someone who will actually listen to you and understand...like a counselor for instance...one with cross gender experience. She is not the type that will listen to a counselor--unless she takes her side.

[Lucy_Bella]

Darla.

Kinda know how you are feeling specially with the non accepting wife.. I think ,,, that with my Ex ,,, now that I have had plenty of time to think about my actions with my dressing,, and how it was presented with her.. I was always the strong understanding and supportive type for her ( my Ex ) .. But when it came down to getting my urges and trust me what I wore then verse now was nothing!! She ( my Ex) was only driven further away from me and I think now more than ever it was because of how I felt about my dressing ( or urges ) than was hers,,, or so it seemed from the beginning ..

I was more ashamed , felt more quilt and was a completely different person because of these feeling I had felt about myself.. I think that if I was more supportive of myself and felt less quilt I may have let her sense that what I was doing was normal ( for me anyhow) .. I don't know if you are understand where I am coming from with this and maybe in short ..If I felt the way I did about what I was doing then it was no wonder why she felt the way she did .. But then again talking to her today she has become more of the "Stereo Type " and I think her mind is pretty well made up ,,,, even though to this date she has never seen me fully dressed..

[Barbara Ella]

These situations are never easy to get through. I am in a DADT with my wife. Intellectually she knows and wants me to dress. Emotionally she cannot take seeing me or talking about my dressing. She knows and does not discourage me from dressing when she is not around. She loves me, and has said she will never leave, but, if things progress/change with the dressing, she will not consider it a marriage any more. Your wife loves you, and it is not a lie, it is a very big emotional kick in the crotch for her, and she does not seem to have an intellectual recognition of what cross dressing is and what it means to you. I am confused by your statement that in therapy it is a different story, but outside you feel bullied. Is she in therapy with you, or does therapy make you feel better, but you lose it after you leave your session? Either way, she needs to be in counseling with you, and she needs to be very honest in what she knows and thinks. Only then will you know what you are really facing.

It is very disheartening to be so alone, and it can wear on a person. My wife does not know that I now have a name. She does not know that I have gone out four times and tried on a dress and purchased it (she likely will never know). I am not hated, and I would ask you to rethink, and realize that maybe you do not nauseate her, but the idea of you in a dress is what she cannot deal with. This is my wife's situation also, and if she saw me she would lose it sometime after that. Not right then, but it would grind on her emotions.

In spite of this, I have to retain a bit of optimism that given enough time her emotions will abate. But for right now, you are right, there is a lot of pain in the future. Hold onto that sliver of an improvement, and continue to work with your wife, wither with counseling, or shielding her from you. You will feel repressed, just do not develop anger.

Sorry for the rambling, but sometimes that is all you can do with a situation like this. Just stick with it Darla.

Hugs, Barbara

[Chickhe]

I've been there... What I did was to do a lot of research in private on my own time... to learn. I learned to accept myself even if no one else would understand and I tried to answer all of my personal questions and now I have less need to dress. It can take years to feel better...

One thing I did do that I thought was risky at the time, I decided to dress up every halloween (done it for several years now) dispite what anyone said...turns out my wife enjoys it. She teases me sometimes and other times seems put off by it...but, I just say its fun and it is....I beleive its what you make it...make it fun for the people around you and you will win them over.

...don't go up to anyone and say 'I have a secret...'! Go to them with ...'this year we are doing something a little unusual and fun...'

[Kathy4ever]

I totally relate. My wife want talk about it. She has been progressing more this year to accepting which is nice. Since the begiining of the year my toes have been kept painted. I have had pink,french tips, purple,green, red. I even walk around the house barefoot or with open toe sandals and showing off the toes. Most days she is okay with it and on a few occasions has said take it off. I dress pretty casually fem on almost everyday at home. The best part is this week i have been wearing the tanks that have the inner bra arttached. No complaints whichis good. her only negative lately is cut that wig off. My hair is getting longer and needs to a have trim and styled, which I'm planning after i get paid tomorrow. She would be happy if i got a real man,s cut as she says but that is not going to happen. Just take it slow and she might come around. Never thought my wife would let me wear some of the things i do wear. I am happy with the slow progress and maybe you can do the same. I wish you luck but family does come first.

[TGMarla]

This is exactly why the "one size fits all" doctrine spilled about on this forum that "honesty with one's spouse is ALWAYS the best policy" is a load of rubbish. While being open and honest with one's spouse is clearly desirable and constitutes a best-case scenario, I think that for every success story, there are two or three stories just like this one.

I wish you the best, Darla, but there may not be any good answers for you, or anything that's going to make this better. I'd suggest you be the best husband and father you can be, and put the girl back in the closet to enjoy when you have the spare time - alone.

[Darla]

Thanks everyone for the kind words! I appreciate it. And I agree Marleena - I hate these threads too. It's so much easier to talk about girly things - you know - the runs stuff that as a guys I'm really not allowed to enjoy. I think there may be something to that, in that my wife doesn't really take the tIme to enjoy being a girl that often, and there's sometimes a "me suffer you suffer" mentality in our relationship that is really getting tiring.

My therapist said that I should be finding the joy in life, and that it will all follow. That and I need to spell out what I want from a situation where I dress - I suspect that it'll end up being a DADt at best. And we're in couples Therapy Debglam, we just haven't tackled the CDing in a while, it's kind of the elephant in the room, but our therapist is waiting on us to bring it up. I've made a promise not to dress until we come to part of a resolution on this, and some days I can deal, some days I'm just screaming inside and want to real down in tears. I also see my own shrink and that helps too, we talk about my anger. I read somewhere that men's depression manifests itself as anger, and yes - I'm depressed, without the comfort of dressing.

And sorry docrobbysherry - got my acronyms mixed up. I'm not a TS, but reading through many threads here makes me wonder some days. I've had so many similar feelings as some girls who are transitioning, and heck - I do like women's clothes - that even though I know I'm squarely a CDer, it scares me a little to think it could lead somewhere. Maybe my wife is scared of that too. But I really like my man parts so that's a big strike against that theory.

I guess I feel sad because I expected more out the marriage. She can be so selfish, and I feel like I'm treated like a second class citizen - kiss always come first as they should, but it ends there. She does nothing for herself (or doesn't acknowledge she does, or doesn't tell me) and I think she expects the same level of sacrifice from me. As a result I'm a hollow representation of who I used to be, with not much to give the world. unless she finds it acceptable, she frowns on activities she finds objectionable. Which is where dressing falls I'm afraid.

I love her with all my heart, but think she can't be flexible enough to live a life where this one unalterable part of me has a place. I feel a supreme joy slipping into women's clothes, I can't stop smiling and feeling that inner peace when I'm feeling girly. I've always said that I support my wife in helping her find her happiness, and I know she has no equivalent. I'm just worried she'll discourage this part of me at an cost because of her own lack of happiness. I can't help her if she doesn't try.

Sorry for the long rant - its so nice that despite the depressing subject you've all taken a few minutes. I love this place

Darla

[kimdl93]

All you can do is try to showw your love, communicate with her and offer her the opportunity to learn more about this part of you. If she's at least willing to participate in joint counseling, there may be a chance to break down some of her objections.

[Jolene Robertson]

Been there don that. You have made a good choice in joining this forum, a lot of good advice found here. Hopefully your wife will come around to understand it is not something you choose. We may choose whether or not to act on this drive but it creates so much turmoil inside and never goes away.
God Bless and good luck

[Georgia_Maine]

To me CD/TG is sort of like being left handed - different from most people. Early in the 20th Century there were efforts to change left handers to right handers. Yes, it can be done, but never works 100%.

[JenniferR771]

Whoops. My wife checks my history every day. She knows, but does not approve. Today she clicked on the link and...since you can read the main discussion without joining...she saw my avatar picture, and read my above post. "Self-centered and domineering? Is that what you guys all think of your wives? And YOU are NOT self-centered?" She didn't stay mad for too long. I have been hoping she would read a few posts and understand us better.
It looks like I will have to be nice to her for the rest of the week, maybe longer. shucks.

[Tina B.]

Darla, I can feel your pain in your writing, you have my sympathy, but that's about all I have for you. There is never an easy answer to this problem.
But let me tell you a little story like this, that did have a happy ending.
I was married and had two kids, when I came clean, it didn't go well, and in less than a year we where divorced, I came home from work one day, and they where gone, I spent a couple of years mopping around, feeling sorry for myself, the way we fought, I'm not sure why, because I was so unhappy, other than the kids. But then I got up and got back out there meeting people, and found a girl that loved me for all of me, now in my second marriage, I dress when ever I want, I buy what I want with out apologies, plus I have a wife that loves to buy feminine things for me on special occasions, or when out shopping and she sees something that she thinks would be cute on me. She has become someone that I can confide in no matter what I feel, she is the only person I can be completely honest with about everything in my life, and how it makes me feel. We have now been married for 41 years this summer, and I am so glad that first marriage didn't work out. By the way, it turns out I have become closer to both my kids than they are with their mother that raised them. While I did miss a lot of their childhood I would loved to have shared with them, but staying with there mother would have made four of us miserable, so it was better this way. When one door closes, you can always open a window!
Tina B.

[JerseyGirlDonna]

Darla, I completely understand what you're feeling. I, too, did not tell my wife before we got married and kept it hidden for almost 25 years. Well, she caught me, and after several tearful discussions, told me to purge and demanded that I seek therapy. We all know how that goes and the second time I was caught asked me to stop but interestly did not ask me to purge. Instead she grudgingly said it was OK to keep my "stuff" but keep it out of her sight because I drew comfort from having it. We are now obviously in a DADT status about CD and I dress when I know it's completely safe to do so. She'll never truly accept it, but has given me her love and support so long as I don't abuse it... now trust is another issue, but we're working on that. I just try to be the best husband and father I can be and so far it's working. I wish you the best and hope you can arrive at a happy place.

[Roberta Marie]

Try to put yourself in your wife's place, see from her perspective. She probably feels isolated with no one to talk to about this. None of her friends or family would understand, she cannot go to any of her regular support structure. She probably feels just as uncomfortable talking to you about these feelings, because you are, after all, probably less than objective. You have put her into a closet of her own. Think about how you feel in the closet, how it felt before you had any understanding of what it means to be a crossdresser, how scary and alone you felt.

Think about what you are asking her to give up. Everything that she has known since you have known her has been ripped apart. Everything that she has dreamed of, possibly since she was a young girl, has been thrown into doubt and turmoil.

Think about the loss that she feels, the morning of her husband, or at least the image of her husband, that she thought she knew and understood. Think about the future that she thought she was sure of, that now she fears loosing.

The first step to acceptance has little to do with her accpeting you. The first step to acceptance has everything to do with you understanding and accepting her, her feelings, and her needs. We should not expect those that we love to understand us if we don't first understand them. We should not expect those that we love to accept us until we can accept them.

[Darla]

Thanks Roberta Marie. I can whine all I need to, but really if I'm looking for a solution I know where to look. I've trusted her so far and this is a big leap for anyone to take. It's not a fair situatiOn for either party, and I have to remind myself how much time this might take. Not dressing for a few months is a pretty small price to pay for a little trust back. And if that what it takes, I'll rely on the kindness of strangers, and still find the joy in talking about garter tabs and mascara.

I know the solution lies with my wife, and in some ways we've never been closer. It's just hard getting to first base in terms of understanding about this part of me. I guess I should feel lucky in some ways I finally figured it out.

Thanks all for the comments and support. And Jennifer - I'm sorry I got you into hot water! We can both practice some spousal understanding. Let me know how it turns out!

Hugs
Darla

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Roberta Marie, what a beautiful and insightful post - its really lovely to read a post from someone who sees things from the wife's side of the coin as well as from the CD'er husband, all too often we get a bashing for being "selfish, domineering, unwilling, uncompromising" etc.


I'm just worried she'll discourage this part of me at an cost because of her own lack of happiness. I can't help her if she doesn't try.

Darla, you say that your wife isnt happy - is this because of learning about your crossdressing or is she just generally unhappy? if the latter, do you know why she is unhappy? I find it hard to understand how a wife would be so "anti" if she were in an otherwise happy and loving marriage. Even if the acceptance only goes so far as to be a case of "well I dont like it, I dont want to see it but I'm not going to leave you over it"

It sounds as though you love your wife very much and are willing to do as much as possible to make this ok for her but it just seems that there is something underlying that is making your wife so totally freaked out by your crossdressing to the point of forbidding it out of hand.

[Darla]

My wife found out over the course of many years, there was much hiding and lying, to the point where at least now she blames the dressing more than me. And it's her unhappiness with all sorts of turmoil in life, not just the dressing, that I think keeps her from truly finding some contentment. The dressing in some ways is icing on the cake. Truly it'd be a few therapy sessions before we could unload the past few years of both our issues. Which is why I think my dressing became so real for me.

I do love her with all my heart, but we're just now beginning to crack the subject. I think she sees it as unmasculine, a trick I played on her, when really I had very little idea that I would have to face this one day. She still wants it to go away and I haven't really presented an ideal version of how it would fit into our lives.

I'm still al little shocked myself with her reaction to the dressing. I think that's what I'm so despondent about. It's such a visceral reaction to it, that it makes me feel like there's little chance for me. But I do need to see it from her perspective. Unfortunately, her perspective hasn't budged in years. I still get treated to the same rant that beats me down every time we talk about it outside of therapy. Civility reigns while we're in the office, but all this hate bubbles up and I just end up feeling punished after any mention of it. Is it a wonder why I don't want to bring it up? Is there any clearer message that my feelings after all these years arent worth as much as hers?

It's just beginning to feel like an unequal relationship. I'm going to broach it in therapy, but there will be hell to pay after.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

It saddens me to read this Darla, I know from personal experience how hard it is to hear this from your husband - it's not what a wife expects to ever hear and I'd be lying if I said there havent been days when I found it all just too bizarre and wished it would just go away but truthfully now, it really isnt an issue for me any longer. My husband's happiness and wellbeing is every bit as important as my own.

It sounds as though your wife just cant deal with the total upheaval of all she knew and held dear in her life and although she probably knows deep down that you cannot help or change who and what you are, she is punishing you and lashing out at you because of her anger and inability to get her head around this.

I sincerely hope that you can both come to some sort of workable compromise - and that's not going to be you giving up an integral part of yourself and your wife having it all her way.

[Michelle (Oz)]

I so totally understand Darla and share your pain and confusion. The replies you are receiving are really insightful and supportive ... love this forum. Just proves that many have endured and come through the same experiences.

I posted a so similar story yesterday in the Loved Ones section dealing with the consequences of honest disclosure and total devastation at her total abhorrence. I should have stayed in the closet but thought that, given our happy, honest and loving relationship, I should tell her about crossdressing. She totally rejected my need to dress without discussion, wanted me to purge and never to dress again.

All your feelings of unfairness and rejection are valid and shared but for me it is now a choice of staying in an otherwise very good marriage or being alone to do what I want. All things considered, a fourth wife in my 60s won't lead to a happier life.

Perhaps ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ even without permission would be better than nothing but the stakes are high if caught.

[ReineD]

I haven't really presented an ideal version of how it would fit into our lives.

Can you present it in this thread? What is or has been your frequency and level of CDing, and what would be your immediate (not necessarily long term unless you know it) ideal, should your wife come to understand your need to express femininity?

If you use this thread to type it out it may help to clarify things so that you can communicate them to your wife eventually.

Also, you mention the hate bubbling up when you are both outside the therapist's office. I see it more as fear, and a lack of understanding of what it means and where it is headed.

[Karren H]

I thought I posted a reply.... Ohh well... Stupid Blackberry....... What I said was "welcome to the club".... I guess my overwhelming positive attitude and being a very happy person counters the hoplessness I have in my relationship". But its of my own doing.... My fault... And I have to live with it for the rest of my life.... It is what it is now and there's no changing back.....

[Mollyanne]

I think all the responses here are of the same ilk!!!! We are all saddened by what you have written and how you feel. to same degree we all have gone through some form of what you are describing. I don't want to open a can of worms here but it seems that there is religious or deep family upbringing here. I sincerely hope that there will be a POSITIVE outcome to your problem(s), and that thee is a compromise that the both of you can come to.

Molly

[daviolin]

Darla, welcome to my world. Allthough it is getting better. Yes there can be a light at the end of the tunnel. It just takes time and patents. I wish I had some magic words to share with you. Just be the best husband to her. Don't over do the dressing. I know this can be hard, the pink fog always rolls in. Please keep us informed. Daviolin

[TeresaL]

Ditto here too. At some point, you have to live or die, and the APA website reports that transgendered are most susceptible to discrimination. Hopefully you are not suicidal, (neither am i) but the members of our genre have a pretty high rate.

I'm as tired of the bigotry as you are., it does not seem fair to be abused as we are. Yet like a raped wife, our interrogators many times, try to pin us down.

You (and your SO) would like for this to just go away -- but it won't. We just dream of a small ranch house several states away, living incognito and being left alone. Yet we won't, and instead, stay in the bashing, god-forsaken relationship, while continuously being stressed out and tired of the tyrant, tired of the stigma, tired of the abuse.

What can the therapist do? Point you towards the way out? She can't cure you though, and that is a 100% guarantee. So don't pick a "Christian" psychiatrist, they just took my money, multiple times.

Solutions?
First, see what a TG therapist can recommend... You still may be told to end the marriage -- the stress levels are too high to be healthy, and you end up with premature cardio vascular issues or some serious kind of breakdown.

Hindsight would have been better, but we can't turn the clock back. Just don't do anything drastic, and proceed with the speed necessary to get the relief you and your SO need. Your SO has put the BRAKES on you so that you can't go too too slow. You have to either give up or fight for every step or she will kill, smash, and grind the girl out of you.

If you want to go slow, then count on years or decades. By that time one or both of you could be dead. I'm speaking from my experience even though I have inserted "you" in many places. I'm also writing this after having my butt kicked last night, so I'm irked to say the least. I may regret what I've said after cooling down. LOL. This is a vicious cycle as you are becoming aware of.




Darla, welcome to my world. Allthough it is getting better. Yes there can be a light at the end of the tunnel. It just takes time and patents. I wish I had some magic words to share with you. Just be the best husband to her. Don't over do the dressing. I know this can be hard, the pink fog always rolls in. Please keep us informed. Daviolin

Michelle, you are so right. We told our SO's many years age, and now wish we could turn the clock around an take our secret to the grave. The advice to disclose and be honest was propagated at the dawn of the Internet. It doesn't work for all marriages, and I will never recommend a married TG to come out of the closet and create something worse than a train wreck.

Being TG has ruint many marriages and it has screwed ours up beyond repair.

[Darla]

I can't really say how just - grateful - I am to see all the replies, from members I read posts from every day, respect and in some cases envy. I also see girls here who seems to have it all together, but have much the same experience, loss and feelings a I do. When I pair up some of those new revelations against pictures that are so feminine and beautiful and absolutely ascendently joyful presenting as women, I feel like I have a place here and have found people I can relate to for the first time in my life. Thank you all do much.

And as to what I want out of dressing, my therapist says go for it all - don't hold back - as you know you're in negotiations and it'll be less than what you want but more than you have. How far I go shouldn't be the "deal breaker" (god - I hate that term) but it should be stated with love and respect.

I limited myself to underdressing all my life, or to lingerie or dancewear. I feel like over the past few years I've grown up a little and see the rich tapestry that dressing as a woman is, with all the choices, I wouldn't want to limit myself to one thing. I want dresses, skirts, shoes - a nice feminine wardrobe. Makeup, forms, hips (I have none to speak of) and a lot less hair on my body. I can dress at home, but I need acceptance. If it can't come from my spouse and its a secret, then I need a support group - people who I can talk to about it, maybe dress and go out with (although I know that's stretching it for my wife). But I need someone to know who accepts it. Somehow.

My fantasy is to be surrounded by friends, dressed in a beautiful dress and heels, long hair flowing around my shoulders, feeling the earrings and necklace and bangles on me, maybe a Cosmo held in my ruby red nails, laughing. Laughing all the years of self doubt and criticism away. I could finally feel the facade drop away and I'd be witty, charming, kind and beautiful. Because that's who I really am.

I hope one day to introduce her to my wife. I'm sure we'd have a fine time together.

[ReineD]

I've read through all your posts in this thread and this is the situation so far:

You've been underdressing for some years in hiding and lying about it, although your wife found out on several occasions. I gather that over the years, you got into a pattern where in order to keep the peace, you told your wife that you would stop. I don't know if you realize that denying your need for feminine expression did reinforce to her that you saw it as a "dirty little hobby" as well, and this will make it even more difficult to now tell her that your needs were deeper all along. This is not a judgment, just the reality of your situation.

You are currently seeing a marital counselor, but no one is talking about "it" yet. Your wife has no idea what this is all about or how far you want to take this. As far as we know, she still believes it to be a sort of sexual deviance (which she would see as a betrayal of your love for her), or the beginnings of you wanting to transition, or a repression of a secret desire to be with men, and she may be thinking that you are seeking a "cure" as opposed to developing the crossdressing even further. But, no one is talking about it.

While all of this is going on, you have a therapist who is encouraging you to go ahead and "go for it all without holding back". In my opinion this is bad, bad advice given that you and your wife aren't even talking about this with the marital counselor.

So now you need an outlet for feminine expression and you wish to go beyond the underdressing. You want to present fully as a woman with forms, makeup, wig, leg shaving, and proper clothes. You also want to attend support groups, and perhaps you have at the back of your mind a dream of going out in the mainstream and blending in one day. This is a natural progression to the CDing and it doesn't mean that you want to live as a woman full time or transition.

My advice is to be crystal clear about your goals with your wife in your marital counseling sessions, while at the same time assuring her that the husband that she knows is not going anywhere. Ever. Your wife needs to understand that this is an aspect of who you are, it has always been, it can no longer be repressed, and dressing discretely on occasion does not mean that your male side will be obliterated. Also, if you do not have any outlets, the desire to dress will reach epic proportions and will make it difficult for you to enjoy the male aspects of your life. You can also tell your wife that expressing femininity goes beyond wearing panties and pantyhose, it really does mean presenting a feminine version of your whole self, and to do so you need to look as convincingly like a woman as possible since the world does not take kindly to the image of men walking around wearing dresses, when they go to their support groups.

You can also do some research about support groups in your area. The good ones will have monthly meetings where wives will be welcomed. The support group that my SO attended for YEARS (before she ventured out in the mainstream) always has a room available for the attendees to change into if they are not ready to drive around while dressed.

Find some literature to give your wife, find a group, make sure that wives are invited, and ask your wife to go with you even if you show up in guy mode the first time. Let your wife know there are many people who are gender non-conforming, they are husbands and fathers, they lead happy lives, this is not going away, and it is something that you and your wife need to face together HEAD ON and stop sweeping it under the carpet. At the same time tell her that you do respect that it will take time for her to wrap her mind around this given your combined history with the CDing, and you do not want to push it in her face. But, you also need to express this side of yourself in a way that will make it as comfortable for her as possible. And ask her if she has any solutions.

Don't forget to tell her that you love her and that she is not losing a husband.

[Voulez-Vous]

I've dressed in clothes for all my life

I think most people can say that...

[Darla]

Reine - thanks for taking the time to read through my posts - i think you got the gist of it. I also appreciate you taking the time to summarize it, in perfectly realistic terms what my wife and I are facing (or not!). As one of the mods, I'm sure you've seen a fair number of the threads, and like an good umpire, can probably call most pitches accurately. Also - I appreciate the SO's point of view immensely, as I tend to get lost in the narcissistic fog of being a crossdresser.

So yes - I did present in multiple occasions that it was a deviancy, an unwanted aspect of my life that I'd be happier to purge, thus creating a much more difficult situation for expressing the CDing as a natural extension of my personality. I downplayed it, and in reality ignored it for years, contributing to a lot of personal unhappiness, all of which cycled back into our relationship. The big question is how to find the truth of who I am so I can be crystal clear with my wife without completely pulling the rug out from under her again.

My current therapist doesn't whole advocate for getting the wish list together an giving it to her as a lump sum, as one would a business transaction. She wants me to be clear about way my goals are, and working together with her and our couples therapist, find a way to talk about our feelings in a way that recognizes her viewpoint, her loss, and her sense of betrayal at having married a man but ending up with something else entirely. So I've sworn off the dressing for months to clear my head, see the dressing objectively, and recognize my emotional and intellectual need to dress. We've gone over the strong mother/weak father scenario many times, and even come to reevaluate a lot of our current family relationships. My wife and I have gone through a lot of harrowing times, and come out stronger as a couple.

But we have a hard time cracking te crossdressing. We're engaging again in therapy about it, and you're right, time to do my homework, do the reading and maybe go to a support group. We'll have to work on that one, as she does see this as confined and not public in any way.

Basically - honesty is the best policy as I'm getting from your post. No dancing around the issue, but a heartfelt and honest assessment of where I'm at will give her the respect she deserves to make up her mind. I didn't give her that option years ago when we wed, so it looks as if the next few months I'll do the right thing.

I think my original post about being so distraught still holds, but with the added touch of self loathing as I slip into what I can term as "bargain mode" - the ability to be a slippery ******* to not tell the truth about my needs in the self deluded reasoning that it'll be easier for her to deal with. Frankly - this is the worst thing I've ever had to deal with in my life. I lover her and can't stand to hurt her, or me, but all signs point to major disappointment. I'm pretty disappointed in myself for figuring this out sooner.

Thanks for all the straightforward advice Reine. I'll hopefully post some measure of sucess here in the future.

[chrismy]

Oh Darla ... i can honestly say i feel your pain. reading this was seeing my own life .... so amazing that i could have written pretty much the same story... receiving the now random jaw dropping blast of verbal abuse that no one else in this world could imagine coming from this loved by many person... just so devastating to me on a personal level ... things that i could never say to another human being
wth is it that drives us like this... ????? driven to.... if-need-be ... sacrifice a lifetime of work and most importantly jeopardize a lifetime of our most important relationships.. what in the world could have such a base level impact that could own this power over a supposedly intelligent rational adult ... ???? ...

[busker]

My wife found out over the course of many years, there was much hiding and lying, to the point where at least now she blames the dressing more than me. And it's her unhappiness with all sorts of turmoil in life, not just the dressing, that I think keeps her from truly finding some contentment. The dressing in some ways is icing on the cake. Truly it'd be a few therapy sessions before we could unload the past few years of both our issues. Which is why I think my dressing became so real for me.

I do love her with all my heart, but we're just now beginning to crack the subject. I think she sees it as unmasculine, a trick I played on her, when really I had very little idea that I would have to face this one day. She still wants it to go away and I haven't really presented an ideal version of how it would fit into our lives.

I'm still al little shocked myself with her reaction to the dressing. I think that's what I'm so despondent about. It's such a visceral reaction to it, that it makes me feel like there's little chance for me. But I do need to see it from her perspective. Unfortunately, her perspective hasn't budged in years. I still get treated to the same rant that beats me down every time we talk about it outside of therapy. Civility reigns while we're in the office, but all this hate bubbles up and I just end up feeling punished after any mention of it. Is it a wonder why I don't want to bring it up? Is there any clearer message that my feelings after all these years arent worth as much as hers?

It's just beginning to feel like an unequal relationship. I'm going to broach it in therapy, but there will be hell to pay after.

Darla, it is not possible to see anything, anywhere, from another persons' perspective. We all live a subjective life, life through our own eyes and mind. Individually we interpret our surroundings and what they mean and oftentimes is is not even possible to describe what is in our minds. It is also one of the problems that we face in trying to describe our need to Cd. It is subjective in a way that most people don't really understand, and partly because we can't frame it in the right words anyway. If you could actually see this problem from your wife's perspective, you would have the problem solved in a minute. If her perspective hasn't changed in years, than she is not unlike most people as we live a culture resistant to change in most ways. Many, but not all, people are not much different that when they graduated from high school. They have the same outlook on life and the same habits and beliefs. It doesn't pay to stress yourself for something that will never likely change.

[Di]

My heart hurt reading your post. I feel so bad for you.
I think no more skirting the MAIN issue
you said
In therapy it's a different story, but outside I feel bullied and emotionally abused. I should never have opened up about this. I entered into a deal where I dIdnt want to lie about hiding it only to have it all taken away. How can someone who professes such love for me show such hatred for this part of me? I would never do this to her - why. Ant I have the same sense of acceptance I would hope to afford her in anything else?


You need to address this...say just what you wrote above.....maybe talk to the therapist first....tell her you have things that need addressed....maybe see them on your own...tell them everything and that you need help in addressing it all.
Best Wishes:hugs:

[ReineD]

A few thoughts:



So yes - I did present in multiple occasions that it was a deviancy, an unwanted aspect of my life that I'd be happier to purge, thus creating a much more difficult situation for expressing the CDing as a natural extension of my personality. ... The big question is how to find the truth of who I am so I can be crystal clear with my wife without completely pulling the rug out from under her again.

It's simple really. You were socialized to be a man and you did try to suppress this all of your life. You also believed that you "shouldn't" do this. You also wanted to stop, because the truth is, we do live in a society that tells everyone that it is wrong for men to be feminine. As to the rest, I'll call upon Eryn to help you with this because it also took her a number of years before she understood it well enough within herself and before she could adequately explain it to her wife, Mimi.




She wants me to be clear about way my goals are, and working together with her and our couples therapist, find a way to talk about our feelings in a way that recognizes her viewpoint, her loss, and her sense of betrayal at having married a man but ending up with something else entirely.

I agree with all of this ... except the part about your wife having ended up with someone who is "something else entirely" than a man. Honestly, unless your goal is to transition and have SRS, you are still a man in a physical sense. You are still your wife's husband, if you have kids you are still their father. I gather you have no plans to quit your job and so you are still the same person there that you've always been. But, you also wish to express your feminine self on occasion, which is only one aspect of the rich tapestry that you are, not the whole of who you are. I'm assuming you have other interests, other things you like to do that are not affected. Do you still like to spend time with friends and family, go out to dinner, play a sport if you play one, travel, watch a good movie, have an interest in cars if you ever had such an interest, or whatever it is that has occupied your time all of your life. So, yes you are still the same person in the same body, except now you are realizing that you need to express a degree of femininity. Just like most of the members in this forum.



Basically - honesty is the best policy as I'm getting from your post. No dancing around the issue, but a heartfelt and honest assessment of where I'm at will give her the respect she deserves to make up her mind. I didn't give her that option years ago when we wed, so it looks as if the next few months I'll do the right thing.

You can't possibly do any more than this. :hugs:

But a word of caution: the degree to which a CDer thinks he may be TS, is directly proportional to the freedom he has to express himself. The more constrained he is, the more it will feel like the craving for nicotine at 3 AM for a smoker who has run out of cigarettes. He won't be able to take his mind off of it to the point he may feel he is ready to give up his male self entirely.

The absolute BEST thing you can do, is to not rush into believing you were born in the wrong body (if this might be your inclination) until such time as you've had ample time to express yourself in private and in public (even if this takes a few years). You do need to actually experience being Darla on occasion for an extended period of time so that you can compare what that reality will be for you, to what you imagine it might be right now.

It is entirely possible for an individual to be gender flexible.


I'm pretty disappointed in myself for figuring this out sooner.

You won't do yourself, your wife, and your marriage any good if you beat yourself up. NO ONE gave you a blueprint for this when you were a teenager. You have been socialized all your life (we all have) to reject this part of yourself. It is taking a great deal of courage to come to terms with it now and not seek refuge in all the various ways there are of numbing the self. You are getting out of denial about who you are and this is a positive, not a negative thing.

Hopefully, the younger generation might be able to understand themselves better at a much earlier age so they can tell their partners earlier too. But, this was not your situation.

[Darla]

Thanks everyone - I always mean for this to be my last post, well - okay one more. It's just that I have gotten such deep responses from so many members, I kinda feel a need to respond and acknowledge them. I've felt the kindness in my therapists office, which I'm paying sliding scale off my insurance for, but maybe the last realization I'll point out is another first (I've had a year full of firsts BTW) and that's a sense of kindness.

Reine - you bring up frequently that society conditions us to reject this part of us. And I did and to some degree still do. But I have never, nor has anyone shown a deal of kindness or sympathy for the difficult situation I'm in (and as many of you are). It's just acknowledging a tough lot in life. I thank you all for the thoughts, that could only come from people who understand. I think it's a given that I find a support group, I need the ability to reach out to people who understand. My wife repeats over and over she doesn't understand, and I guess I may never be able to make her. But she has shown sympathy, just no real acceptance. My bad - I need to give her something to accept.

I'm going to say it again - I love this board, and I think each and every one of you are beautiful, wonderful women.

[Thera Home]

I feel like her love for me is a lie, and that I'm destined for a divorce. All the love we had is superseded by the adherence to the social norms. Was it always this weak?

I feel so hopeless. I'm not asking for the pity or understanding of anyone on this forum. I just want to know that acceptance of who I am might be a possibility, even through the possibility of a lot of future pain.

Darla

My Dear Darla
I feel your pain since Im in a similar situation. My wife does not want to accept my "me time" either. When I told her about it I respected her wishes and cut everything loose including visiting this site. We talked constantly and shared our feelings. Your wife may feel threaten that she maybe not attractive anymore and does not want any parcipation in your dressing including you stopping it altogether. I would respect her wishes and talk not just about CDing but everything that your family may be expierencing. She knows now that I visit this site and sometimes share my story. Its a very slow process and you need to give her that time to absorb this part of you.

Thera