It's NEVER just about the clothes.

[Wildaboutheels]

I call HOGWASH.

The reason I ask is that the title sentiment is often expressed at this Forum on a daily basis at various threads by numerous "regulars". It is seen so often [IMO] that any GG coming to this Forum for the first time, is going to assume that it applies to ALL CDers.

Granted, it IS True for most of the regulars at THIS Forum.

Doesn't mean it applies to All CDers or even most CDers. We are all unique and different in so many ways.

This thread is in no way a judgement as to the many reasons WHY we don't dress the way Society expects.

This is basically just a True or False question posted for the "benefit" of GGs.

[RADER]

Do you thing the reason why we sort of overdress is to distance the fact that we are
a man in a dress; and do not want to look like a man in a dress.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Rader

[Cynthia Anne]

I know it's never just about the clothes for me! It's MORE about who I am and my feelings of who I should be! Clothes for me is a small part of the way I feel inside! Hugs!

[suzy1]

I think what you are highlighting here is a common mistake that some members make when posting.

For example you will sometimes read “we have ALL felt guilty at dressing at some time in our lives” That one always irritates me a little bit because some of us have never felt any guilt.

Or some will say ALL those in the closet are afraid to go out. [That one really gets Suzy gnashing her teeth!]

A GG with a little intelligence is going to read more than just one thread and get a balanced and informed understanding of us lot, I hope!

SUZY

[ReineD]

The reason I ask is that the title sentiment is often expressed at this Forum on a daily basis at various threads by numerous "regulars". It is seen so often [IMO] that any GG coming to this Forum for the first time, is going to assume that it applies to ALL CDers.

So tell me. If it IS just about the clothes, then why on earth would a guy want to look feminine, whether he uses any one or several of the following: wig, makeup, breast forms, or shaved legs (and not for cycling purposes)? :)

[janet54]

The whole look for me is how I feel inside. I am more relaxed and feel more in touch with myself. If that makes any sense to anyone?

[noeleena]

Hi,

My ? will allways be the same , why do men wont to dress in our clothes, well there seems to be quite a few reasons .

They look nicer feel nicer lovely colours ,& would there be a hint of a little sexyer, Oh and of cause they are made for whom they were not designed for men so what went wrong there. mens body shape is different from us to start with, & so on it goes

Yet heres an interesting point with in our S C A Renaissance group world wide. the 1400 to 1700 's, men did dress in dress's & long robes of all colours of the day & still do, & you know what they really do look pretty good, just one detail though they did not wear breast forms no make up that i know of, though some of cause did years ago. pointy shoes,

With in our group we have over 100 men i mean all out only men some make me look pretty small even though i stand bare feet at 5 ,9. oh well no bigge i am a woman when all said & done just happen to be I S,

Now these men are fighting men in the blockade or dressed in garb for fighting, in the ring.& they are pretty strong ,oh ,no wimps there,

Some thing that does come up to me is if it was only about the clothes why then does it have to include most ..long hair wig, make up & breast forms & high heeled shoes, then to imitate act & manirisims like a woman though the voice does give a male away.

Why do men wont to be like us who are female / woman for me a little different though being intersex, For me its a part of my make up as a person being born female / male at birth,

Theres is one point ill make i know many dresser's do a far better job or look & pass or blend in than i, as iv said before im really not in the running of how many look. fact is id look so out of it id be ashamed to mix with them .

I just came back from Austrial last weekend & before that 4 weeks ago i spent time with 85 trans people at a lovely old Hotel ,
& i said before going i was feeling a little out of it so even though im a normal woman most if not all were dressed far better than i, im just glad i was doing the photography for the event so i was in camara mode.

I dressed nicely yet you dont allways feel a part of the event yet down the road with other women im more than completly at home with them. funny as i spent more time with staff & other people comeing in to the Hotel & talking with them.



Reine, sure not for swimming ether, he he .......

...noeleena...

[Shelly Preston]

I would say you have not noticed the support most if not all GG members and visitors get.

It is explained there is more support available in the FAB section from others who have gone through the same process. Also many members will do there best to help anyone who is new here.

I know we are all different, which is why it can be difficult to understand.

For some it is all about the clothes.

For others the clothes are only an expression of something deeper.

[STACY B]

What about the hair,Plucked eye brows, Shaved body, Painted nails ,Pearced ears, Laser hair removal , Salon trips,,Shopping trips ,, If it was just about the clothes than you could just buy on line dress up at home no makeup hairy body bald head put on your little outfit strut around till you are satisfied an take it off and your done ? Pretty sweet ,,No TROUBLE ,,Dont need a forum to talk to anyone ,,Just dress an undress ,,, Now thats FANTASY LAND !! Heyyyyy Im in ,,,lol,,,

[DMichele]

True - it is not just about the clothes (for me). Although outside of work I tend to be androgynous, I feel women's clothing fit me better and therefore are more comfortable.

[Cheryl T]

It used to be about the clothes entirely when I was younger.
Years of soul searching and discover have brought me to the realization that it is not now and has not been for many years, Just about the clothes.
The clothes are just a visualization of what is inside me and who I really am.

[Beth Mays]

I agree with Cheryl T to a ... umm "T"...
for a great number of years it was nothing more than pantyhose and skirts. As the years have gone by I have come to accept those were small grip of a much larger picture.

[Wildaboutheels]

Ok, so now we are getting somewhere. For at least two women here, it STARTED with just the clothes. Could there possibly be any others here who started the same way? And IF there are more than two, [10, 100, 1,000???] is it not possible that for some it is STILL just about the clothes?

Or would you simply proclaim them to be "faulty" in some fashion? If THEY too did not "progress" and eventually move on to "more involvement" in attempting to present as a woman, as in walk/talk/makeup/wigs etc.??????????

[Ally 2112]

For me it started with just the clothes but has progresed a lot! especially the last 5 years or so .I feel like im on a teeter totter one day i want to be a women the next im only a cder .Saying this im mostly happy where im at but some days it can be irratating :)

[Tina B.]

I've been dressing for over 62 years now, and for me it's never been about the clothes, It's a deep desire that wells up from deep inside of me, that demands I give my feminine side time to run free, if I don't it becomes a war zone inside my head. over time I will have to give in and satisfy that need, or I feel I'm going to explode. I fill with rage, anger, followed by depression and resentment, and then doing something stupid, until I return to my old happy self. For me Dressing can be as much as a cocktail dress, heels wig and make up with all proper foundation's garments. Or as Little as a pair of Capri's, a tee shirt, and sandals, forget the wig, make up, and forms even. Just as long as the girl in me gets out, she don't care what she wears. If it where just about the clothes, old guy jeans, and a t shirt, are very comfortable. They feel good on, they just don't make be feel better inside.
Tina B.

[Suzy Parker]

Catch 22 for me........

From early on as a confused young crossdresser moms clothes seem to beckon to me. When I first put on one of my moms dresses it was exciting, it made me feel good, I liked it. As time went by the clothes bacame more and more irrestible and I was hooked. Was it just the clothes or the way they made me feel while wearing them? I can't get that feeling any other way than to wear womens clothes. For me it is much more than just the clothes but at the same time it is all about the clothes. The feeling that overwhelms me while I am dressed can only be obtained while wearing womens clothes.

So for me.....

"It's never JUST about the clothes." and "It's ALL about the clothes"

[Kate Simmons]

I do have to agree that it is about the clothes or the overall "look" to an extent Hon. As this is basically the "vehicle" we utilize to express our inner feelings in an outward way.(Besides, I get away with way more en femme than I ever do en homme.;)):)

[Tracii G]

For me dressing as a female was and is an expression of a portion of my inner self.I don't have to go over the top with a dress and heels every time it can be PJ's or jeans and a t shirt.
I am glad I came to grips with it and have a basic understanding of gender dysphoria.
Still don't know where I fit in the grand scheme of it all but I'm happy.

[Wildaboutheels]

How about if I throw something else in just to keep things interesting?

IF you did not start dressing till after - let's say 10 or 11 - I'll stick my neck out and hazard a guess that the first items you tried on were NOT flats, granny panties or granny dresses - floor sweepers - call em anything you want.

Correct?

Heck, even if you did start at 4 or 5, I'll still wager that you did not start with any of the above 3.

[Kaz]

OK... I guess I am a 'regular'? Being a 'regular' I have noticed how diverse this community is and yes, you are right... for some CDers it is just about the clothes - happy to be a hairy male digging the feel of the clothes - no problem with this, it is where I began my life experience of CDing (except as a teenager I wasn't that 'hairy'!). But this is a broad and diverse community and at another extreme (if in fact it is a continuum, which it may not be) we have members who have surgery, take hormones and physically change to 'be' as feminine as they can.

I accept that some GGs will get a potentially 'wrong' message, but then what is the right message? We all fall into different categories (and boy do I hate categories!)...

Shelly has mentioned that GGs get a lot of support, but taking on board your comments, maybe on the open forums we all do need to be aware of the messages we are sending out there... I think that is largely about personal responsibility and 'taste'..

But then I personally think the moderators do a great job! They have certainly helped me!

So where am I on the 'continuum' or rather 'spectrum'.... this does not imply a linear relationship so much...

It isn't just about the clothes... the clothes are the symptom... the underlying issue is more complex and that is what a lot of us are grappling with here... I AM ME!

[Lucy_Bella]

I wish I could say for me it's about the clothes ... But it's not, I feel fine rather I am drab or drag ( the drag is not open or out in public ).. If I was to be out in drag, I don't think I would be comfortable or not as much as I am in my drab attire ( I wasn't last time I went out ).. At first it was about the clothing , Today it's more about the feeling and fit .. It has to be feminine or I won't touch it when I am in one of those urges to where I feel the need to express..

It's odd how I have progressed , there was a time that under dressing cured the need , but today if I can't fully express I won't bother .. I wish I could go back to where under dressing was enough , has anyone ever done that? Maybe if I get into a serious relationship with a GG that is not very accepting to my desires.. I could fine a way back but as of right now I have no will power or self discipline to go in reverse ..

[Kaz]

Lucy, you will just adapt to your situation... unless you choose a more permanent pathway... and that is where the TS crowd come in!:) Ah, life choices!

[suchacutie]

I find it unlikely that any of us woke up one morning and suddenly stated, "I'm transgendered". There has to be an entry point. The easy entry point is observing girls/women, and one can't observe them without seeing the clothes and hair and makeup! The clothes are a low-energy-barrier way of "sampling" our feminine selves.

At that point it becomes a spectrum from those who find that the clothes are just what they are looking for to those who, a few years later, find themselves living full time as a woman.

Likewise, for me it was the clothes as entry point, and the leap from clothes to "Tina" was a whole 3 minutes!

[TGMarla]

So tell me. If it IS just about the clothes, then why on earth would a guy want to look feminine, whether he uses any one or several of the following: wig, makeup, breast forms, or shaved legs (and not for cycling purposes)? :)

Well said, Reine. So, Wild, I expect the next time we see you, you'll have changed your avatar to one without breasts? I mean, simply to wear the clothes, you shouldn't need them, right? Or do you want to wear breasts? What about the hair? You don't need it just to wear some girl clothes. Oh....you want pretty hair, too? Hmmm......something just doesn't add up. Maybe some of that hogwash is contained in the OP.

[Lucy_Bella]

Lucy, you will just adapt to your situation... unless you choose a more permanent pathway... and that is where the TS crowd come in!:) Ah, life choices!

Ha ha..good one Kaz :) I really like my male self to much to go TS.. If I went T.S. I would have to express my male desires by not shaving and stuffing a rolled sock down there ( no offence to the trans men or T.S.'s here it's just what I would do to keep my balance ) gotta keep a balance and adapt I will.. Progression never ends until the light at the end of the tunnel burned out..

Thanks for the inspiring comment :)

[TGMarla]

Wild has informed me that he never wears forms (or very rarely) or a wig. For him, I guess it really is about the clothes and little more. So I retract my statements regarding him. Fair enough. I think he proves his point by living it.

[Melissa Rose]

For some, it is just about the clothes, their reasons for dressing may vary. They are a segment of the wide spectrum of cross dressers, but one, I suspect, that remains relative quiet about it especially in a forum such as this one.

[ReineD]

Ok, so now we are getting somewhere. For at least two women here, it STARTED with just the clothes. Could there possibly be any others here who started the same way? And IF there are more than two, [10, 100, 1,000???] is it not possible that for some it is STILL just about the clothes?

Or would you simply proclaim them to be "faulty" in some fashion? If THEY too did not "progress" and eventually move on to "more involvement" in attempting to present as a woman, as in walk/talk/makeup/wigs etc.??????????

I've seen pics of men who present as men while they wear skirts or colorful clothing. I agree, this is strictly about a clothing preference. Maybe they feel more comfortable wearing looser garments. Maybe they enjoy pushing fashion boundaries. I do not detect an ounce of femininity in the following looks, for example:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Lifeandhealth/Pix/pictures/2009/5/22/1242988065194/Alexis-Petridis-005.jpg
http://www.39thandbroadway.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/marcjacobs101008.jpg
http://classicruby.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/men-in-skirts-collage1.jpg

But, if for whatever reason a guy chooses to not put on a wig, makeup, or forms (maybe he thinks these things would look ridiculous because he believes he could never "pass"?), yet there is a feminine element in his appearance, for example he presents decidedly feminine legs by shaving them and he does his best to approximate a woman's figure by wearing short shorts cinched at the waist girlie style, and he wears feminine shoes, I think there might be a little more to it than just the clothes, or at least this is the impression he gives based on his presentation choices.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. I don't think that any manner of appearance, whether it is masculine, feminine, or in between is ever faulty, nor do I think that any binary or combination gender identity is faulty.

[Foxglove]

Maybe somebody can explain it to me, because I'm not sure I understand. "It's just about the clothes." What does that mean?

Does it mean you like wearing the clothes but you don't want to be female, or you don't feel feminine while you're dressed? Or that you only wear the clothes but no wig, make-up, etc?

A guy once told me that a buddy of his wore dresses "because he found them comfortable." Do you mean something like that?

Maybe some of those for whom "it's just about the clothes" can explain what they mean. Sorry, if I'm being dense here.

Annabelle

[drushin703]

While I am out and about I get to meet quite a few "tranny-chasers" of which I always pose to them the same question. Do you crossdress and if not, why not?
I have never gotten yes as an answer. No, not me, I would never get caught doing something like that! Now, this is certainly not scientific, but m-to-f, cross-
dressers are viewed as the lovers of female clothes with some deep, undefinded psyco-sexual-gender issues. When someone sees a crossdresser (especially non
crossdressers) they never see the morphology. I, for one, do not agree with degrees of crossdressing. If you want to wear a wig, no wig, pantyhose with shaved
legs, thigh-hi's under your trousers, underdress in panties and bra under your business suit, so what, one once of trans blood makes you trans.lol
It, being just about the clothes, is how most of us started. How we wound up, the finished product or the work in progress, is cetainly not the pathology/
the struggle to be yourself is never the basis of ANY desease...dana

[GaleWarning]

Shelly Preston is right ... for some of us, it IS all about the clothes.
I have absolutely no desire to be female.
I LOVE wearing stockings and high heels.

So the statement that it is NEVER just about the clothes is false (by counter example).
As a long time member of this forum, I have learned that it is very dangerous to try to generalise.

[TeresaL]

Get my face right, and I would wear male clothes if I had to. A feminine face means more to me than panties and dresses. I do not want to look like a man in a dress -- ever.

But, look like a lady, talk like a lady, then dress like a lady.

EDIT:
I'm probably pretty far from that, pink fog though gets me when I have looked at my pictures for the last three months since I have re-visited the CD lifestyle. Those pictures made me utterly sick when I first saw them. what's going on?

[Kaz]

Ha ha..good one Kaz :) I really like my male self to much to go TS.. If I went T.S. I would have to express my male desires by not shaving and stuffing a rolled sock down there ( no offence to the trans men or T.S.'s here it's just what I would do to keep my balance ) gotta keep a balance and adapt I will.. Progression never ends until the light at the end of the tunnel burned out..

Thanks for the inspiring comment :)

Lucy, you are very welcome! Take care you!

[ReineD]

Shelly Preston is right ... for some of us, it IS all about the clothes.
I have absolutely no desire to be female.
I LOVE wearing stockings and high heels.

My SO has no desire to be female either. :)


So the statement that it is NEVER just about the clothes is false (by counter example).
As a long time member of this forum, I have learned that it is very dangerous to try to generalise.

If gender were binary, (like being pregnant ... either a woman is or is not pregnant), then I would agree with you. But with gender there are more shades of gray than the very skinny strips of black and white at each end of the grayscale chart. Something drives a man to present as a woman either partially (just the gams) or fully (the face and the body).

If it were just about the clothes, there would be no attempt at any sort of feminization.

[RainyNightGirl]

For me it all started with tights (pantyhose), heels and skirts. That once was enough up until quite recently. Now I have my toes painted all the time, my body is hairless and wearing accessories and carrying handbags. Where does it stop? Its been an intense ride these last few weeks and I am deep in the pink fog. Not sure where this is taking me. I enjoy being male and I enjoy my male side too, but it is consuming and that does scare me a little....could also be my OCD personality too. Would welcome some guidance if any one has any....

Have a great weekend girls
Natasha x

[Wildaboutheels]

CDers come in dozens of flavors. At the very least. Just like ice cream. If a person likes ice cream, it is not necessary for them to like ALL ice cream.

Is it?

Does it really matter if someone likes grape ice cream and nothing else? Does it matter WHY they like grape ice cream?

Which flavor is the "best one"?

Which flavor is the "right one"?

Is it ever OK to MIX flavors? You know - in the same bowl? OR, is it only OK to mix certain flavors together?

To me...the possibilities are limitless. I am not going to limit my picks based on what other people may like.

Or think.

Or say.

[Lorileah]

And there is a difference between it is just about the clothes and they are just clothes. If it was just about clothing, then why not just wear them? It is about the look (sometimes) the feel (sometimes) the erotic effect (sometimes). It is about what the wearer makes them to be about, no different than a woman. And yes some will go over the edge with what they wear to make a point.

And I think you would be wrong to assume that the majority wore something sexy the first time also. Being creatures of opportunity it was more likely something mom, sis, cousin or neighbor had. If your mom wore granny panties, then it is likely that was the first you tried.

[sometimes_miss]

In a way, it IS all about the clothes. The clothes allow us to redefine ourselves TO ourselves, more than to anyone else. When I'm dressed as a girl, I feel like I am one; there's no constant focus on anything, it's not sexual. I just feel normal, I don't really notice the clothing. But when I'm wearing guy clothes, it just feels, well, 'not quite right', like I should change my clothes. The best analogy I can give is as if you're wearing a guy's bathing suit at a elegant function where everyone else is wearing a suit and tie or a tux; sure, it's sexually appropriate, but you will just always feel like you should change your outfit as long as you're there. Or maybe, as if you're wearing a red sox hat and jacket at yankee stadium surrounded by yankee fans, and they put a pic of you up on the jumbotron, I think the sports nuts will understand that better; it's that kind of feeling not quite comfortable.

[Pythos]

Then there are nut bars like me who really does not see, long hair, makeup, skirts, dresses, tights, leggings, as "feminine". They are clothes and styles that have been limited to only women. The only gender specific clothing I acknowledge as such are Bra, and Jock strap. That is about it, all others can be worn by both sexes for the most part, was it not for this BS known as sexism.

When I wear the clothing and styles I like, I feel more inline with my true self...a blend of the two. My self image is a dark haired, long haired, individual that has the features of...well I'll say it, Elves of the type from Tolkien's stories.

When in said clothing, I don't try to "pass" as a female. I am just myself. I have said before that my movement does change...skirts make one move differently, as do heels and corsets. LOL