But I don't *have* a figure!!

[Kathi Lake]

Another one for the "No one is happy for what they have" department:

After chatting with some people in another division, I was making my way back to my office. A friend and I were going to pass each other in a hallway. I jokingly shrank back to the wall, giving her plenty of room to pass, and motioned her by. I was trying to be a gentleman. Of course, since she is a woman, she took it the wrong way. "Oh, I'm too huge to just pass by you?" she joked. "You had to make extra room?" :)

Flustered, I turned and walked with her to her office, apologizing all the way. She mumbled something about how annoying "you tiny little skinny things are" and I said that she was just as skinny as I was (she is, and honestly very pretty). She stopped, kind of put her head to one side, looked at me and said, "You know what? We (the women in the office) talk about you. Do you know how many of us would kill for your figure?! And I mean that sincerely." I said that I didn't have a figure, and that I was just skinny. She said, "Remember, now - I've seen your pictures. You have an incredible body, and honestly, it couldn't happen to a nicer girl."

I laughingly asked (while feeling the blush rushing to my cheeks) what she meant. She looked around outside to make sure no one else was near and said, "Remember when you showed me those pictures? Those "Halloween" (yes, she used air quotes) pictures? What did I say? Do you remember?" I said, "Ummm, that I looked pretty?" "No" she said. "I said that you were a beautiful woman. I didn't say that you looked like a woman or that you were beautiful. I said you were a beautiful woman. I meant it. Do you understand what I'm saying?"

Well, all that kind of deflated my joking manner, so all I could say was thanks. We chatted a bit more, and I left. But I left thinking. Isn't it funny how one who seemingly has it all wants something else? Many of the people here - no matter how beautiful - want what the others have, it seems. Someone skinny like me would love to have better facial bone structure, or more fat so my arms wouldn't look so manly. Someone with wonderful curves wants to be skinnier. And of course, everyone wants to be Monika. :)

I wonder, when will we be satisfied with ourselves? I know that I resolve to try to love myself more just as I am. How about you?

Kathi

[Lidia_tv]

Seems to me this could be a beginning of a beautiful friendship, if you play it right.

[kimdl93]

Well, Kathi, for starters people (except for those malicious types we hope to avoid) usually say exactly what they mean. This young lady-whatever her age-was expressing her geniune feelings and although you may have difficulty accepting it, its obviously true. I her eyes, you are a beautiful woman...especially on Halloween ;) So, get used to it....learn to accept it.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those people that actually needs a little extra room in the hallway. I don't suppose I'll ever be satisfied with myself, but its way to late to worry about being too tall, too big, too whatever. But if I want to live life on my own terms I have to accept myself...even love myself...as a I am and accentuate the positives. And for the record, as a proud Norwegian American, I really do wish I was Monika!

[Lorileah]

I would love to love me, but I know me and it is hard to love someone like me who can see all the flaws in someone like me. I am not good at taking compliments so like you you I just smile, bow my head so they don't see me blush and say "Thank you". But it makes me feel good for a long time after :)

PS I wish I was thin like you

[AllieSF]

Good comment Lorileah. I actually love myself already, but do truly understand Kathi's comment. Yes, we always want something better and in a way it is good because it provides the motivation to be better, change or whatever. If everyone accepted themselves and their own plight just as it is, then this would be one boring and very backward world.

Kathi,

There you have it direct from a GG's mouth very sincerely and directly said. Enjoy it and life.

[Kathi Lake]

Lorileah, I used to do a lot of woodwork for fun. After I created something, I would know all of its flaws - a join that wasn't perfect, or a nick in an odd corner. What would everyone else see? Beauty. What would I see? Flaws.

Allie, you are correct, appreciating others makes us want to be better people. If we can use that as a means of improving ourselves, rather than hating our flaws, this would indeed be a better world.

Kathi

[Persephone]

In the Spring of Once Upon A Time a little rose plant began to sprout. As it grew, it looked about it at the rather drab weeds and knew that it too must be a weed. After all. it was twisty, and skinny, and covered in thorns, and its leaves just weren't very pretty.

And then, one day, it bloomed with the most perfectly beautiful delicate pink rose!

Admirers came from all over to marvel at its beauty. But no-one could identify its species. Even a woman passing in the hallway stopped to admire the beautiful blossom.

It was unique in all the world, a lovely plant that hadn't been seen before, hadn't been classified and put into its little niche, hadn't been given a name.

The assembled botanists debated and discussed. Was it related to this rose or to that? What should they call it?

They finally decided to name it Kathi Lake.

Someday Kathi you're going to look in the mirror and discover the rose that is there..

Hugs,
Persephone.

[sissystephanie]

We are who we are, and unless we want to pay a lot of medical bills that is who we will remain! Persephone described you very well, Kathi! You are a beautiful rose! I, on the other hand, are definitely a man, no matter what pretty clothing I have on. My dear late wife could make me look like like a lady, but I still had my man body!

[Kate Simmons]

Wow, That's a real compliment if I ever heard one Hon. The funny thing is we go to such great pains to "create" our feminine figures(and feminine image), we are living proof that anyone can do it if they really want to and put their mind to it.:battingeyelashes::)

[Nikki A.]

There are some people (especially women) who can look past the physical and see the soul. I don't look fem in the right clothes let alone in drab. And yet, I've got a friend who sensed my femme "aura" and told me so. I also walked into conversations between female coworkers and they kept talking like I was one of them, or so they said so.
Kathi this co worker sensed your aura in the picture. You're busted lol but I think you may have a friend if you want.

[Kathi Lake]

The funny thing is we go to such great pains to "create" our feminine figures(and feminine image), we are living proof that anyone can do it if they really want to and put their mind to it.But, as I said, I don't *have* a feminine figure. She is simply seeing me through the lens of her own (incorrectly perceived) inadequacies. It's kind of like when we get a compliment from a woman who says, "You are much prettier than me." What they really mean is that they see one feature on you that they might like to have, and what comes out is "I wish I looked like you." Does it mean they wish they looked like us? Heck no! They simply see an area on you where maybe they're struggling, and their inbuilt politeness/niceness makes it come out that way.

Kathi

[Laura912]

You are sooooooo lucky to get a compliment like that. And as an active woodworker, I understand seeing all the flaws in something you create. Remember, most diamonds are flawed. Still looking for yours.

[Cynthia Anne]

Who's Monika?? ha! It's nature to want more [or less in some cases]! I guess we will never be satisfied with what we have until we get it all! Hugs!

[kellycan27]

I think we're all a little critical of ourselves.. my butt is too small and my nose is too big. My Best friend who is a drop dead gorgeous little thing with an awesome figure thinks her butt is too big, and her boobs are too small.. I wish I had her butt and she wishes she had my boobs......

[Kathi Lake]

I think we're all a little critical of ourselves.. my butt is too small and my nose is too big. My Best friend who is a drop dead gorgeous little thing with an awesome figure thinks her butt is too big, and her boobs are too small.. I wish I had her butt and wishes she had my boobs......Exactly!! We see someone who is beautiful (my wife, for instance), and wonder why in the heck they can't see it. You, for instance, are flat-out gorgeous. Still, I'll bet that you could spend much more time discussing your flaws than your good features, right?

Kathi

[kimdl93]

Who's Monika?? ha! It's nature to want more [or less in some cases]! I guess we will never be satisfied with what we have until we get it all! Hugs!

Monika is a Norwegian goddess. She has some recent pics in the gallery. To the topic, I'm sure even Monika has the same tendency to see her faults and underestimate her assets

[cathie pantyhose]

you are definetly lucky to be thin. I'd love to lose 20 lbs but it would negatively impact the stuff I do for fun. I need the the extra weght for some of the mountains I climb. I lose 20 lbs on some climbs because of the conditions. I need the extra weight at the start of most for my body to use. I ride bikes a lot to maintain some cardio but ultimatly I'd love to be 145-150 everyday. I would definetly ride my road bike faster at 145 but I love climbing extreme mountains too much to be thin

[Marleena]

Well Kathi she gave you a nice compliment and I agree you make a pretty woman.:) Most GG's it seems wish they could look like supermodels. The fact you're a GM and look good as female got her thinking. She is probably looking for perfection in herself.

As for us TG girls, well we had puberty deal us some features that are hard or impossible to hide in girl mode. I think it's common for us to wish we could present better too. As for Monika, she should have been a girl. I think all of us would love to look that good.

[Babeba]

Yesterday I went hiking with one of my oldest friends, and we got to talking about body image a bit... Turns out we both secretly wanted a butt like each other's when we were younger. I think it really is human to be slightly insecure.

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, I definitely missed (miss) a patch on the top of my head...but I digress. Have to settle for being a "store bought" woman I guess, ask Neil Diamond.:heehee::)

[docrobbysherry]

I think u look great in all your pics, Kathi. However, I continually have that battle u mentioned! Mostly when I'm showing my natural, skinny, shapeless figure, I see a man in a dress! NOT what blows my hair back! I prefer a fem figure anyway.

However, every once in a while, in just the rite outfit, in just the rite pose, I see a natural figure pic of me that I LIKE! Maybe one day, I'll get past my "imperfections"? As u said, wouldn't it be nice if we ALL could?

[PretzelGirl]

I agree, you are a beautiful woman.

This is life with many people. The grass is always greener. You ever notice that people take vacations to see things where you live and you never thought about it? Happened almost everywhere I have lived.

[Miranda09]

I do know exactly what you mean Kathi...I'm never happy with myself (male OR female mode) and am always trying to improve on it. BTW, I think it was awesome that a gg gave you such a wonderful compliment, but you deserved it. You always look fab!! :)

[SarahLynn]

Kathi i must agree with the lady of your story. You are a beautiful woman. Not just the outside that everyone sees but the whole picture of "YOU" is a beautiful woman. From your incrediable good looks to the very nature of your mannours and demeaner, YOU are a beautiful woman. Take pride in her compliment for i am certain she intended to compliment not only your appearance but also your increadiable personality.

SarahLynn

[Kathi Lake]

I think it really is human to be slightly insecure.Human? Possibly. For a woman? Definitely! :)


The grass is always greener.True. Although I do treasure the compliments I receive (not fishing, by the way!), I often think, "Why are they complimenting or jealous of me? I mean, just look at her arms, or nose, or cute little chin, or . . .


Take pride in her compliment for I am certain she intended to compliment . . .Oh, she took great pains to let me know that it was indeed a compliment, since I at first seemed to brush it off. She reiterated her words until I accepted the compliment. And yet, when I tried to compliment her, she wouldn't have anything of it. And that, dear friends, is what has me flustered.

My wife, for instance, is one of the most beautiful women I know. I'll scan through a crowd and catch a glimpse of her incredible hair. I'll sometimes just watch her from a distance, marveling at her, and thinking, "This gorgeous woman is mine!" What happens when I tell her how I feel? The best I can hope for is a bit of a smile and a raised eyebrow of disbelief. This woman knows that I don't flatter - I only speak what I think is true. If I say you're beautiful, rest assured that that is exactly what I think. So, why do we do this to ourselves? Why do we not believe external - and hopefully impartial - observers, when we know that we are our own worst critics? Why do we believe the voices, the doubts, the internal negativity?

Sigh. I wish I knew.

Kathi

[Stephenie S]

Dissatisfied with your figure? Welcome to the world of women. We can ALL see something we wish was smaller (or bigger). It's just a fact of life.

But it IS important see through your flaws and to learn to love your body. It's the only one you will ever get. Love your body. Take care of it and it will reward you.

S

[noeleena]

Hi,

This is really about a lack ...OF...selfesteem self confidence lack of loveing who you are, & then the ...DONT...like , how i look or body shape & the list is or can be pretty long, or the other issues we have,

you know what yes i know what thats likes 50 odd years of, pleanty of... wood work... flaws. are we really going to be happy with our selfs. may be may be not.

Iv learnt to grow as a person & leave those issues & flaws behind & all the other bits you know woodwork shaveings chips dust & so on & not look at the flaws any more, im looking at the beauty we all have, ,

Im really sick to death of the dust dirt & our flaws because really we dont live a life of being happy what others see in me is my inner beauty they look far beyound what they see with thier eyes & they see what is real.

so would i be so wrong in saying im really happy & content with in my self some may say im deluded, i think not. because i am really happy with my self even as a female / woman, body & all. we have to look past our selfs to find that beauty,

i have,

i dont need to tell you about my flaws you know allready , what im getting at we dont all have it to gether, nor do i, yet what we have we can build on . as iv said before if you meet me what would you see, then when youv spent time with me & get to know the real who i am face to face then what you first thought of me then would change, so our outer ...look... is really looked past, & then youll understand we do have a beauty about our selfs that can be loved. .

...noeleena...

[Kathy4ever]

Now that is a compliment I would luv to get. That you are a beautiful woman. Other than halloween pictures why do you think she said it that way? I would take it and feel great about myself and you should too.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Kathy, R: The ladies in the office, I guess it's like they always say.
" The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" .

[Kathi Lake]

Other than halloween pictures why do you think she said it that way?Well, I think she was telling me that I wasn't fooling anyone as to my intentions, and that she saw deeper than surface-level.

She definitely let me know that she knew that these were not mere Halloween pictures. I apparently wasn't fooling her into thinking I had just dressed up as a woman for a lark or as a Halloween costume. She saw something deeper. She saw me, I guess.

Kathi

[kimdl93]

Well, I think she was telling me that I wasn't fooling anyone as to my intentions, and that she saw deeper than surface-level.

She definitely let me know that she knew that these were not mere Halloween pictures. I apparently wasn't fooling her into thinking I had just dressed up as a woman for a lark or as a Halloween costume. She saw something deeper. She saw me, I guess.

Kathi

Thats one of the most inspiring aspects of this conversation. Your co-worker really did see the real you, realized that no average guy would make that effort and achieve thos results. And more than that, she saw into your heart, realizing that the beautiful girl in the picture was and is the real you.

And of course, it also means that despite disguising yourself as a male, the reality is visible to the more perceptive among us.

[lauren_m]

Kathi, you're definitely right about the grass always being greener, and our tendency to obsess over our own perceived shortcomings. But what a nice conversation with your coworker. I'm sure it brought its share of anxiety, and may not have been the most welcome topic at that particular moment, but you really couldn't have asked for more positive, inspiring, and insightful (as well as accurate!) comments. Thanks so much for sharing; that story has really brought a lot of joy into my day!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Thats one of the most inspiring aspects of this conversation.

Yes, exactly.


And of course, it also means that despite disguising yourself as a male, the reality is visible to the more perceptive among us.

Which is what I've been telling Kathi all along. :-)

Veronica

[kellycan27]

Human? Possibly. For a woman? Definitely! :)

True. Although I do treasure the compliments I receive (not fishing, by the way!), I often think, "Why are they complimenting or jealous of me? I mean, just look at her arms, or nose, or cute little chin, or . . .

Oh, she took great pains to let me know that it was indeed a compliment, since I at first seemed to brush it off. She reiterated her words until I accepted the compliment. And yet, when I tried to compliment her, she wouldn't have anything of it. And that, dear friends, is what has me flustered.

My wife, for instance, is one of the most beautiful women I know. I'll scan through a crowd and catch a glimpse of her incredible hair. I'll sometimes just watch her from a distance, marveling at her, and thinking, "This gorgeous woman is mine!" What happens when I tell her how I feel? The best I can hope for is a bit of a smile and a raised eyebrow of disbelief. This woman knows that I don't flatter - I only speak what I think is true. If I say you're beautiful, rest assured that that is exactly what I think. So, why do we do this to ourselves? Why do we not believe external - and hopefully impartial - observers, when we know that we are our own worst critics? Why do we believe the voices, the doubts, the internal negativity?

Sigh. I wish I knew.

Kathi

I don't think that it has to do not believing the external, doubts, internal negativity, nor do I believe that it has to do with low self esteem, self confidence, loving or being uncomfortable with one's self..... in most cases. Quite simply put I think that I can sum it up with a word, that word being humility.
Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I wished that my rear was bigger and that my nose was a little smaller. I think that that may have given some the impression that I saw these things as flaws and that i was unhappy with my body because of this. On the contrary.. I am quite happy with my presentation, these are not things that I dwell on or make me feel dissatisfied. Earlier you paid me a lovely compliment ( thank you by the way) and you said.. you're pretty but it's easier for you to talk about your flaws rather than assets.... This reminded me of a recent thread where the question "Are you pretty" was asked. I was actually a taken aback a bit by some of the replies. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with having a good positive self image it's just not in me to stand up and say.. yeah I am pretty. it's not that I don't think I am attractive I just don't think it's my place to to say that I am. That's just me I guess.

[SherriePall]

Gosh, Kathi, what a wonderful compliment. And your coworker "KNOWS" that the pics were more than "Halloween" pics. I guess the gig is up. Maybe some day you'll be able to go to work en femme. OK, with all that said, your pics here do show one beautiful woman. And your posts show that beauty to be more than skin deep. Thanks for sharing that story and take care.

[Sally24]

I can just imagine her expression when she did the air quotes around the "Halloween Pictures". If I remember the post about the incident you did dig yourself a pretty deep hole with the involved story around the pics. I would have to guess though that you are like many of the TG women on this site that just give off a different vibe, even in boy mode. It's nice that she made you stop and swallow the compliment. I know many women, my wife included that try not to accept compliments. That's a skill that all women should learn to practice. It would help their self confidence as well as their self image.

[wilt575]

Lorileah, I used to do a lot of woodwork for fun. After I created something, I would know all of its flaws - a join that wasn't perfect, or a nick in an odd corner. What would everyone else see? Beauty. What would I see? Flaws.

Allie, you are correct, appreciating others makes us want to be better people. If we can use that as a means of improving ourselves, rather than hating our flaws, this would indeed be a better world.

Kathi

Kathi I know just what you mean I chrochet and do cross stich etc. and when finished see mistakes, and have to rip them out and do over. Other people didn't see them but I did.

[KateSpade83]

Kathi - you're very lucky for several reasons:

You have a pretty wife; most crossdresser don't last or get a wife.
You have a natural skinny figure - what's your height weight, and dress or skirt suit size? I'm guessing you're a size 4?
What is the specific type of engineering that you do? Your very lucky to even be employed while everyone knows you crossdress. Me? - Every job that found out that I crossdress - they considered me gay and I didn't go permanent or I was fired or not hired [structured out].

[Kathi Lake]

Which is what I've been telling Kathi all along. :-)Girl, didn't you see the sign? This is a no-cheerleading zone. :)


Earlier you paid me a lovely compliment ( thank you by the way)Well, duh! I'm not blind, you know.

Actually, your humility comment made me think. How much is enough? Do I like my body? Yes. Do I think that it's the best one out there? Heck no!

Usually, people describe me as 'self-deprecating.' To me, that's an improvement. After years of self-loathing, being merely self-deprecating is pretty dang good! Coming up next; grudgingly accepting! :)


what's your height weight, and dress or skirt suit size? Well, I'm a bit shy of 5'11", I'm hovering around 130 or so. Dress and skirt sizes depend on the dress or skirt. Skirts are anywhere from 00 to a 4, and as for skirt suits, I don;t know (you're the expert on those). The only skirt suit I own was custom-tailored in Korea.


What is the specific type of engineering that you do?With the continuing implosion of my company, I have gone from software engineering to QA to documentation and customer sat to hardware engineering, to design and R&D and now I have added regulatory engineering to my CV. I like learning new things.

You're very lucky to even be employed while everyone knows you crossdress.No one knows I crossdress. Some people suspect, some even know something more is up, but it has never been and never will be that important in the workplace. When I am there, I am there for my company, not for me. Kate, learn from this. Your crossdressing should never come up in an interview or anything like that. Worry about getting a job first.

Just my thoughts.

Kathi

[kellycan27]

Actually I was addressing what you said regarding your wife.. and how some women "listen to the voices". Personally i think that you have a cute little body.

kel

[Sara Jessica]

Well, I think she was telling me that I wasn't fooling anyone as to my intentions, and that she saw deeper than surface-level.

She definitely let me know that she knew that these were not mere Halloween pictures. I apparently wasn't fooling her into thinking I had just dressed up as a woman for a lark or as a Halloween costume. She saw something deeper. She saw me, I guess.

Kathi

Yes, there's a huge difference in the Halloween "dude gets dressed up by wife/GF" than the image you present. Any woman can see that at first glance. Regardless of your figure Kathi, you don't achieve your beautiful presentation by happenstance. Your co-worker saw the real you.


I don't think that it has to do not believing the external, doubts, internal negativity, nor do I believe that it has to do with low self esteem, self confidence, loving or being uncomfortable with one's self..... in most cases. Quite simply put I think that I can sum it up with a word, that word being humility.
Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I wished that my rear was bigger and that my nose was a little smaller. I think that that may have given some the impression that I saw these things as flaws and that i was unhappy with my body because of this. On the contrary.. I am quite happy with my presentation, these are not things that I dwell on or make me feel dissatisfied. Earlier you paid me a lovely compliment ( thank you by the way) and you said.. you're pretty but it's easier for you to talk about your flaws rather than assets.... This reminded me of a recent thread where the question "Are you pretty" was asked. I was actually a taken aback a bit by some of the replies. Not that I think that there is anything wrong with having a good positive self image it's just not in me to stand up and say.. yeah I am pretty. it's not that I don't think I am attractive I just don't think it's my place to to say that I am. That's just me I guess.

I remember that "pretty" thread. It can be very discomforting (is that a word?) to focus on positives like that. I too see my flaws much easier than my good traits, yet I would say my self-image is overall positive. But what you are talking about Kelly reminded me of part of an interview I saw the other day between Oprah and Kim Kardashian. Oprah asked Kim if she sees herself as pretty and she replied that she didn't. If we are to think she is sincere, that sort of perception seems to be consistent with what we are talking about when it comes to self-image. For what it's worth though, I don't believe a word of what Kim is saying because the next question had to do with how much "work" it is to maintain her look and Kim confessed as to what a "chore" it is.

[Kathi Lake]

Actually I was addressing what you said regarding your wife.. and how some women "listen to the voices".How long does it take, I wonder, until those voices inside our heads are drowned out by those outside?


Personally, I think that you have a cute little body.Coming from you, that is high praise indeed. Thank you.


Yes, there's a huge difference in the Halloween "dude gets dressed up by wife/GF" than the image you present. Any woman can see that at first glance.Any woman? I sometimes wonder just who sees through to me. As I am obviously a guy, I wonder what that mental disconnect makes them think?


It can be very discomforting (is that a word?) to focus on positives like that.From the time I was small, I was raised to not "toot my own horn." It is very discomfiting to do so. I would much rather engage in self-deprecating behavior than self-aggrandizement.

All that said, I do honestly know I have good features. I also know which ones need work. Am I happy in my appearance? Yes. I am, actually. Are there things I would like to change? Perhaps. Overall, I am happy to be me.

Kathi

[KateSpade83]

Kathi - crossdressing never is mentioned in my interviews, but somehow I think there is a secret network that everyone goes into to "dig the dirt" on everyone. So I guess they find out about me.

So I guess you have a computer science or electrical engineering degree? IT work must be very tolerant of crossdressers. The mfg world is not so tolerant.

5' 11" @ 130 lbs sounds very anorexic. Amzing to even fit size 4 or less at that size. Might be model proportions. Do you eat well and do you have a very high metabolism?

I tried to get to the low 130's when I used to workout a lot but I only managed 139 lbs for one day. Nowadays I hardly work out and I'm 162 lbs mostly a size 8 but I can fit my size 6's and some of my size 4's still. But nowadays I have to buy size 8 to be safe to fit it.

[brendascott9]

The Shape wears can fix some issues i guess...

[Beverley Sims]

When I was younger I didn't *have* a figure either.
I had a 98 pound weakling figure that could fill out a dress with some sensationalism and my female associates liked to *help* me.
They were good times.:)

[Kathi Lake]

Kathi - crossdressing never is mentioned in my interviews, but somehow I think there is a secret network that everyone goes into to "dig the dirt" on everyone. So I guess they find out about me.Doubtful. You talking about it in a reply to a job listing, however . . . :)


So I guess you have a computer science or electrical engineering degree? IT work must be very tolerant of crossdressers. The mfg world is not so tolerant.Nope. BS in counseling psychology and in social work (dual major). I've just been a geek since the 70s, and simply turned my hobby into a job. I started slowly with software testing, an almost entry-level skill, and just grew in my job load and experience as the company imploded. :)


5' 11" @ 130 lbs sounds very anorexic. Amzing to even fit size 4 or less at that size. Might be model proportions. Do you eat well and do you have a very high metabolism?Well, I'm probably closer to 135 or so these days. My usually high metabolism just may be slowing down (about time!).

Kathi

[Voulez-Vous]

Kathi - crossdressing never is mentioned in my interviews, but somehow I think there is a secret network that everyone goes into to "dig the dirt" on everyone. So I guess they find out about me.

I don't have the energy to go dig up the post, but I know I saw a post from you awhile back where you said something in a job interview about crossdressing.

here it is, from 4-29-12.

Originally Posted by KateSpade83
Otherwise, I’d rather work as a Mechanical Designer or Mechanical Engineer. If you’re gonna pay me $12 / hr I might as well work as a pretty secretary in a skirt suit! … Actually I do look very pretty in a skirt suit, but I’m a straight male to female crossdresser. I believe in having a career and having a wife though, and no, I’m not gay… I just like being pretty!

[ReineD]

There are some people (especially women) who can look past the physical and see the soul.

This is very true. And it's more than what shines through, it's physically visible. In any given same-sex grouping of people, male or female, you will notice that some individuals have more masculine or more feminine energies than the others. It shows in their body types, the angularity of their faces, the way they comport themselves. And no one gives this another thought. We just think of it as being the normal differences between the way that people look.

You should look at a group of men sometime. You'll be able to tell which look more or less masculine/feminine than the others. And the same applies to groups of women. It's a great way to let your mind wander during a boring meeting. :)

Kathi, I also think that her compliment was genuine.

[Kathi Lake]

In any given same-sex grouping of people, male or female, you will notice that some individuals have more masculine or more feminine energies than the others.Are we talking yin/yang or something like that, here? And also, why a binary?

I see it like this; I'm a guy. I'm happy to be a guy. Sure, at times, I do like to express a part of myself that usually has to remain hidden, as, well, . . . as guys just don't do that. Yes, it involves clothing, makeup, and looking as much like a woman as I can. Is that expression of a part of myself necessarily feminine? I'm not sure. Again, why the binary? Sure, it makes it easier to fit us into a 'slot' but is that really what is going on?

I've said it before, when I think of myself, it is not in terms of he or she, but me. I feel like me. Could some things I do be categorized as feminine? Certainly. I have had many adventures posted here where what I did could certainly be described as things that (almost) only a woman would do, or would even want to. Do I do other things? Of course! But posting about replacing the CV axle on a 98 Honda is probably not what the membership here wants to hear about. :)

Reine, I guess my confusion on your post stems from my confusion on what people see in us. I don't think that when people see me, they see me as a man or a woman - no matter how I'm dressed. I think - no, I hope - they just see me. The same nice person that I always am.

Kathi

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Are we talking yin/yang or something like that, here? And also, why a binary?

Because most people think in the binary.

Time to play cheerleader!


I see it like this; I'm a guy. I'm happy to be a guy.

Are you sure about that? Okay I shouldn't ask that question, I know. But I just want to make sure.


Is that expression of a part of myself necessarily feminine?


It's femme for sure. I think most people would consider it "feminine"


Again, why the binary?

Because the Binary is the reality of the this thing called life, even if the binary can be annoying.


Sure, it makes it easier to fit us into a 'slot' but is that really what is going on?

Okay, say I offered you a choice of which "binary gender team" you could be on, without any other complications or implications involved. I want you to think of nothing but which gender team you would prefer people to assign you to and consider you a part of. I don't want to read anything regarding that there's ramifications for job/family/church, etc. I just want to know...which team would you prefer.


I've said it before, when I think of myself, it is not in terms of he or she, but me.

Sure, you're you and I'm me, but how would you prefer to be perceived.


But posting about replacing the CV axle on a 98 Honda is probably not what the membership here wants to hear about. :)

I think there's some who would like to read that here, not me, I'm not a gearhead.


Reine, I guess my confusion on your post stems from my confusion on what people see in us. I don't think that when people see me, they see me as a man or a woman - no matter how I'm dressed. I think - no, I hope - they just see me. The same nice person that I always am.


People are going to categorize as as "something" that is what people do, we catgorize things. I think in your case, at least some of the women you interact with consider you a "honorary" woman, at least to a certain extent. Some might think of you as "woman on the inside". As for me,your cheerleader, you know what I think, lady.

Veronica

[ReineD]

Before anyone comes in to criticize Veronica's style of communication, which admittedly outside of USENET can seem rather argumentative, please look instead at the tone of her message, which is respectful (even if you do not agree with her views). If it helps, visually group all of Cathi's quotes together, and also group all of Veronica's sentences together to form a paragraph.

I'm saying this because I don't want there to be another flame war like in the other thread (I deleted all the posts and you know who you are), criticizing someone because of the way they need to organize their thoughts. This is just as bad as a criticism of someone's spelling, grammar, or punctuation and it takes the focus off of the topic at hand.

... besides, you'll notice that Kathi uses the same method. If Kathi can do this, so can others.

I may be overly preemptive here, but there you go!

[kimdl93]

Btw, I'd probably use the same technique on occasion if I knew how you guys do it!

[ReineD]

Reine, I guess my confusion on your post stems from my confusion on what people see in us. I don't think that when people see me, they see me as a man or a woman - no matter how I'm dressed. I think - no, I hope - they just see me. The same nice person that I always am.

What I'm saying is, that we're all conditioned to separate gender into only two categories: male and female. And our initial assumptions of a person's gender are based on just a few of the more salient gender cues: height & size, perhaps the more male facial features (brow & jaw), and of course presentation (hair & clothing). But, if you look at a group of six men who are sitting together for example, it will be clear which have more feminine features, or exude a more feminine energy, compared to the others in the group. The same is true of women.

But, still if you compare the woman who has the most masculine energy (compared to the other women) for example she is more angular, taller, has smaller breasts, larger hands, etc, to the man who has the most feminine energy (compared to the other men) for example he does not have a protruding brow, his chin is rather rounded, he does not have thick eyebrows, etc, generally the woman will still seem more feminine than the man and this is because of the more subtle gender cues such as the distance between various points on the face, the thickness of the profile, etc, in addition to the more salient gender cues (hair, clothing, height).

I say all of this because I've spent years drawing people and I notice these things. :)

And I also believe that if I saw you at a table with five other guys, you would likely appear to me to have more feminine energy based on your features compared to the other guys. Maybe this is what your coworker was getting at in addition to complimenting you on your pictures. :)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Before anyone comes in to criticize Veronica's style of communication, which admittedly outside of USENET can seem rather argumentative,

Oh yeah, learned to do that on USENET, it's standard operating procedure there. I also found it useful to organize my thoughts because I"m used to how my USENET client (which is also my mail client) presented threads. I can change settings on this board to make it similar but then it makes it so I have to scroll from side to side, and I find that annoying so I have it set to flat linear, which I also find annoying because it doesn't show threading in the way I'm used to. I can't win.


please look instead at the tone of her message, which is respectful (even if you do not agree with her views).

I consider Kathi a friend! I have at times presented other viewpoints as a "devil's advocate" style, askins certain questions or making certain statements for their own sake, but that is less common


This is just as bad as a criticism of someone's spelling, grammar, or punctuation.

Have you SEEN my punctuation, I suck at it. I'm a fan of the comma splice.


I may be overly preemptive here, but there you go!

Thankees, Reine


Btw, I'd probably use the same technique on occasion if I knew how you guys do it!

Manual editing of code tags, I type in a simple text entry box without the added editing doo-dads and do the tags manually.


What I'm saying is, that we're all conditioned to separate gender into only two categories: male and female.

Yes. that's why I say we're stuck with the binary even if we don't like it. And I do understand the binary's weaknesses even if I want to fit into it on a personal level.


But, if you look at a group of six men who are sitting together for example, it will be clear which have more feminine features, or exude a more feminine energy, compared to the others in the group. The same is true of women.

I think so, that's a good insight.


I say all of this because I've spent years drawing people and I notice these things. :)

Ah, interesting.


And I also believe that if I saw you at a table with five other guys, you would likely appear to me to have more feminine energy based on your features compared to the other guys. Maybe this is what your coworker was getting at in addition to complimenting you on your pictures. :)

Yes...I think so... Umm actually I know so, but that is another story. I could say more about this...but not yet. Well I will say that my sister once said to me, some years back, may have been when I was in high school or in my twenties, that I "clapped like a girl" Or the drunk guy who got a wrong number when I was in college and told me "I know you're a dude but you talk like a girl" Or the time I got asked my gender at a Dariy Queen drive up, which wasn't all that long ago. I've become self conscious about some of my vocal mannerisms since I know some of them can seem "femme-y".

Veronica

[Kathi Lake]

Before anyone comes in to criticize Veronica's style of communication, Not me. I like it! It is a great way to get your point/s across in a nice, linear fashion.


Btw, I'd probably use the same technique on occasion if I knew how you guys do it!Ask and ye shall receive! First, the Multi-Quote button is your friend. Seriously! Just click the icon to the right of the "Reply With Quote" button on all of the people you'd like to reply to in one post. Click the "Reply to Thread" button when you're done, and all of them will be quoted in the reply. Simply look for the [/QUOTE] tag and type your reply after it. If you want to 'pick apart' someone's reply into each individual section, manually type the [/QUOTE] tag after a section. When tyou want to start a new section from that person, put their name tag in front of it (you can copy it, if you like. It looks like
)

[QUOTE=ReineD;2890749]. . . masculine energy . . . feminine energySorry, I have to grin. There is a difference between energy and physical facial features, right? It's interesting that you almost use this energy as an initial indicator before features. Is that what you meant? Energy=features? Features=energy?

Kathi

[ReineD]

Is that what you meant? Energy=features? Features=energy?

I use the term "energy" as a short cut to express the sum total of all the things that cause others to classify us as either male or female. :) If I were to write it out each time, my posts would be huge.