Betrayed

[Lola14U]

My Story: For quite some time i have been lurking... trying to find answers. We have been married for a while now with children. Our bedroom life was exciting, dressing up frequently. This started even before marriage.

Recently I came home from work and found my SO totally dressed and ready to go out. To say the least I was shocked- it had always stayed in the bedroom which we both agreed upon.

Aside from God family is my world. I feel totally betrayed. What would you do?

[Jolene Robertson]

I would think it requires some open communication, cross dressing I think will eventually lead to wanting to leave the house (we have to test the water). But if it was agreed to keep it in the bedroom then it should have been discussed first (I think). It is wonder-full to have a SO who accepts, and I would do nothing to jeopardize that.

[Marlana]

Perhaps there was some miscommunication. If the agreement was that it's okay for the bedroom, it should be discussed before leaving. As a crossdresser with a willing SO, the envelope will be pushed. Maybe a more frank discussion is required?

[BRANDYJ]

What ever Lola wants...OK, I borrowed that from a song. But seriously, it's true. You accepted his being a CD and it was even fun for you.Now he is pushing the envelope to a point that is not acceptable to you. I can understand why most wives would not want to go with their husband while he is en-fem. He has not right to assume you do. You need to speak up and set boundaries that you both can live with. Perhaps tell him if he wants to go out dressed, then go, but to leave you out of it. Maybe find a support group or a club where CD's are accepted. But he should not have been dressed and ready expecting you to go out with him without first talking about it. BTW, Welcome!! I hope this site can give you some answers and support that you seek.

[linda allen]

My Story: For quite some time i have been lurking... trying to find answers. We have been married for a while now with children. Our bedroom life was exciting, dressing up frequently. This started even before marriage.

Recently I came home from work and found my SO totally dressed and ready to go out. To say the least I was shocked- it had always stayed in the bedroom which we both agreed upon.

Aside from God family is my world. I feel totally betrayed. What would you do?

You haven't said it, but I am assuming that you are a genetic female and your SO or husband is a male crossdresser.

Assuming that is the case, obviously, the two of you need to talk about this. Was he planning on going out in public by himself or with you? Are you willing to be seen in public with him dressed? Were the children home?

Again, sit down with him and talk. Find out what he wants (needs) to do. Find out why. Try to find a level of crossdressing that you are both comfortable and satisfied with.

He is still the man you love and the father of your children. Putting on a dress doesn't change that.

[Jenniferathome]

It's a little surprising to read that you are ok with him dressing, likely for years, and even in the bedroom but shocked at the idea of him going out. Is it fear of discovery that bothers you? The simple solution is to discuss the rules that you can both live with. You have the hard part done, you know about his crossdressing.

[Cheryl T]

TALK!!
Obviously you were aware of the dressing, so talk and discuss this new turn. Express yourself and also be a listener. This is not the end of the world, just another step in the journey of life. Tell your SO of your concerns and your feelings.

[Cynthia Anne]

MEN! You can't live with them! And you can't just shoot 'em! So the best thing to do is TALK as Cheryl said! Love is a two-way street! The best to you and yours! Hugs!

[kimdl93]

Certainly the two of you need to talk. And before you talk, try if you can to put yourself in your SOs shoes for a while. What might he have come to believe about the nature of your relationship? He may have, mistakenly, interpreted the exciting and frequent dressing in the bedroom as an indication of a broader acceptance.

Second, try to tone down the language..even in your own thinking. Being fully dressed in your absence and without your knowledge isn't a betrayal...not even an indiscretion. Its a misunderstanding...perhaps to some degree a mutual misunderstanding that you can work out together.

[Karren H]

Like ready to go out without you or your knowledge? He's lying to you and may be cheating..... God can't help you but I'll be a good lawyer can...

[Lola14U]

It's a little surprising to read that you are ok with him dressing, likely for years, and even in the bedroom but shocked at the idea of him going out. Is it fear of discovery that bothers you? The simple solution is to discuss the rules that you can both live with. You have the hard part done, you know about his crossdressing.

A few items in the bedroom vs. seeing him fully dressed going out without me was an eye opener. I felt like the wife that didnt know her hubby had a money scheme going on LOL. I am trying to understand it all and figure out where that leaves me.

[Stephanie Michelle]

What others tell you what we would do doesn't mean it is right for you and your husband. Its good to listen and then formulate a way that makes sense for you both. Sounds like a lack of communication. Best thing is to talk and find out his feelings and go from there. But it definitely sounds like he assumed too much. Good luck

[Kate Simmons]

You need to talk to him to find out what his intentions and motivations are Hon. Then you can decide how to proceed.:)

[Kathi Lake]

I am trying to understand it all and figure out where that leaves me.Lola, understanding it all can and will be a lifetime task. It will take patience, love, trust, and communication. Lots and lots of communication!

Instead of you figuring out where it leaves you, the both of you need to figure out where it leaves you. As the husband to a wonderful wife, I want so desperately to talk to her about it, but sometimes the signals I get ("This is too much!" "I can't talk about this right now" "I feel so lost and alone" "I'm so embarrassed") make it very, very hard. All I can say is to push through the embarrassment, talk to your spouse, and discuss boundaries. Yes, as the wife, you can discuss boundaries. Not as an "I'm in control" kind of thing, but as a "Let's work through this together" kind of thing.

Treat him with love and respect, and not scorn and disgust - and expect the same - and you will make it through just fine.

Kathi

[Tina B.]

Go out where, it does make a difference? There are places that are good, like a TG support group,and then there is the Bar scene, going without you, might be bad. I agree he should have talked to you first, but I'm not sure I would call it Betrayal.
Tina B.

[Jackiefl]

I think KATHi said it perfectly you need to communicate.

[suchacutie]

There are many of us here with supportive wives, and the last thing that we would imagine doing is to jeapardize that support. That is, I think, why many of us are a bit non-plussed about the fact that there seemed to be a sudden change, and why a few mentioned that this change may not be as sudden as it appears.

Ok, it could be as simple as "someone didn't get the memo", or it is a complete misunderstanding of something that was said in the very recent past. That can be easily solved by talking it out and re-establishing the communication that you thought you had in the past.

Or, it could be a developing problem, and one that is not recent.

Regardless, it's time for a very frank conversation with all the cards on the table.

[Lorileah]

A few items in the bedroom vs. seeing him fully dressed going out without me was an eye opener. I felt like the wife that didnt know her hubby had a money scheme going on LOL. I am trying to understand it all and figure out where that leaves me.

Welcome. Many here go through a phase where the clothing is a sexual thing (mostly because we started at an age when sex was what we thought about every 8 minutes every day). So incorporating this into the bedroom is something we hoped for (and most didn't get). You at least indulged that part. You will get many props for that. But rarely does it stay a sexual thing totally. Since you found him fully dressed we can assume that he has deeper feelings and needs in association with the clothes. You have come to the right place ( in my opinion ;)).

Where does it leave you? Well as as been said in almost every post here, you need to discuss this with your hubby. You can go into that discussion with some information from this site. We know you have the common questions and one for you is since you have seen this as a sexual thing, does he still see it the same way? Was his intent on expanding the sexual part outside the home? Maybe not. Read through the threads here and you will see that many times the CD just wants to be out and in normal places. Of course you already have played the "are you gay?" and "do you want to be a woman" scene in your head and these questions need to be addressed.

It seems you are not totally appalled at this. That is good. Hopefully you didn't fall on the floor laughing either :) Since you are surprised but not shocked then you can work through this. Yes it is a pushing of the envelope. Will you allow it? Don't totally say no at this time. Putting severe restrictions can just make him angry and make him withdraw. You don't have to give him free rein either. This is a give and take situation. Your limits will vary. I see personally some issues with restraints. No one likes to be restricted severely. But agreed limits are good. I can promise you that if you shut down it may appear he is going along but it will explode at a later date. My wife had one major rule "Don't embarrass me" and that worked well because it made me think twice (or three times) before I wore something. She didn't like going out but she knew I would and she was OK with it as long as it wasn't overly done. My GF after that though did go out with me and I always felt I was an albatross around her neck. She didn't think so and enjoyed out outings. But again because of my feelings I set the limits. Again, I don't think you should open the gates and let the inmate run the asylum. But being a little flexible may be a better way to handle this. Would you be willing to allow more dressing in NON-sexual situations? Would you be willing to go to dinner in a safe place with him dressed? Just a drive? (most other drivers don't pay attention to what is in your car). Be warned that even if you do this he will eventually push for more, so you need to revisit the fence line sometimes.

I do get the feeling you are willing to work through this (you are here to start with). Now it is just negotiations. It leaves you with a new vision of your spouse (to answer your question). He is the same guy you met, fell in love with (maybe even for some hidden subliminal reason that is associated with his dressing). Little things change when we dress, usually for the good for you.

[Annaliese2010]

I agree Lola. You as his committed exclusive girl, the mother of his children, should be at the very center of his life and THE most important person in the world to him. It's obvious you must be a very special kind of woman who truly loves him, accepting both aspects of his personality, his male and female self. By what you've said it's obvious how you have been supportive and encouraging. You possess something very rare compared to the vast majority of women by how you genuinely enjoy the possibilities for an exciting bedroom life afforded a woman whose SO is M2F transgendered.

Since you discussed and agreed upon certain boundaries as this relates to his feminine self, he is very definitely crossing the line and breaching the fundamental and necessary trust two people must uphold for there to be a loving binding relationship. The least he could've done out of respect for You is discuss it with you first and if you approved, then ok go out, but together instead of him going out on his own. It automatically and unavoidably raises all kinds of questions and doubts as to his motives.

Going out by 'herself' creates worry and stress in you, who should be his 'One', his confidant, his only Love. Call me retro but IMO the mother of his children should always and forever without exception be respected, protected & provided for. Keeping you and his kids happy, shielding you from harm and unnecessary stress should be his number 1 priority in life regardless of his mixed gender. He sired your children so there's a real man in there somewhere. That he would break your agreement in such an arbitrary uncaring way is IMO very selfish, self indulgent behavior.

You have every right to complain. He has every reason to change, fall in line, or risk losing what he apparantly doesn't know or appreciate he has: the exceptional woman in you, and the precious innocent children you gave him. I hope this problem resolves itself for your sake. If it doesnt and he becomes even more arbitrary, you should consider finding someone else who will treat you in a loving trusting way. Excuse me if I'm going too far saying this but by the little insight I think I have about you, my geuss is That wouldn't be too hard to do. You're a rare find, a multifaceted diamond that shines, a one in a million kind of girl.

[Jill Devine]

Like ready to go out without you or your knowledge? He's lying to you and may be cheating..... God can't help you but I'll be a good lawyer can...

That's a bit harsh when not knowing all the facts...

[Raquel June]

A few items in the bedroom vs. seeing him fully dressed going out without me was an eye opener. I felt like the wife that didnt know her hubby had a money scheme going on LOL. I am trying to understand it all and figure out where that leaves me.

You're leaving out major details. Did you even try to talk to him? What did he say? Where was he going? Was he dressed like a normal woman or like a hooker? Had you ever gone out in the past together?

Obviously there's a lack of communication here, and it sure sounds like he's the one in the wrong, but what exactly made you feel betrayed by him leaving the house the way he was dressed? You think he was going to go to a club and try to hook up?

[Rianna Humble]

what exactly made you feel betrayed by him leaving the house the way he was dressed?

I'm quite amazed at the number of people in this thread who overlooked the fact that Lola and her husband had agreed that the dressing should stay in the bedroom. Why should she not feel betrayed when her husband just unilaterally rips up that agreement with no warning?

[Bonnie J]

I agree with Karren..something is really rotten in that Scandinavian county. Big time!! Time to have a serious chat..all cards on the table.

[MsJanessa]

I'm not sure I understand what exactly he was doing when you came home---was he just dressed and hanging around the house, knowing you would be home at a certain time or was he dressed and on his way out the door? If the latter, was he dressed to go to the local clubs or to a shopping mall---was it the sight of him all made up as a female that bothered you or the fact that he was going out like that---I get the sense you don't mind him putting on lingerie for a night of passion (lucky guy) but that you don't want to see him fully dressed and made up, with a wig etc? Have you considered going to a support group for CDs and their wives? Might be a good idea to see what take other spouses have on it.

[Babeba]

Each situation - public or private, shaved or unshaven, fully dressed or partially, nail polish or no - to me I think it should all be discussed as much as comfortable or possible. A couple who tries to work together will often have a better outcome for both people in that relationship.

I also think when as a part of a couple you are working together, and on the same page... Only to find out that your spouse is completely sneaking around it - it would feel a lot like not only a betrayal of that work you have done to find a common ground but also you feel a bit like a chump getting strung along while your partner is doing whatever they damn well please. I can see that subterfuge being very hurtful, and that if your husband 'let you' discover this, it was the absolute worst communication method. He should have talked to you about the feelings he has that make him really want to go out, and The base reasons why you are not comfortable with it, and try to work out some way you both can feel satisfied. Now, though, before that conversation can happen you have to work through some trust issues and doubts.

Once you have posted 10 times plus an intro, you can apply for access to the SO only part of the forum. It might help you sift through to people in similar situations to you. :)

[Raquel June]

I'm quite amazed at the number of people in this thread who overlooked the fact that Lola and her husband had agreed that the dressing should stay in the bedroom. Why should she not feel betrayed when her husband just unilaterally rips up that agreement with no warning?

Like I said, it certainly sounds like he's the one in the wrong here, but "betrayed" is a pretty strong word, and there are a lot of details left out.




Recently I came home from work and found my SO totally dressed and ready to go out. To say the least I was shocked- it had always stayed in the bedroom which we both agreed upon.

We need details about this agreement. If it had always stayed in the bedroom, why was an agreement needed? Why bring it up? Because he told you that he didn't want it to always stay in the bedroom? If so, then maybe you should feel betrayed, but why would you be shocked if you already knew it was something he wanted to do?

It's an incredibly suspicious way of stating the situation.

I only pee in the bathroom. I do not go outside and pee on the sidewalk next to my apartment. But my landlord has never asked me to agree not to pee on the sidewalk. If I had to make a verbal agreement with my landlord not to pee on the sidewalk, that in itself means something strange is going on.

It sounds like you knew it was something he wanted to do, so you tried to tell him not to, and he tried to keep it in the closet so you would leave him alone. And then he resented it, so he decided he was going to do what he wanted. And now this happened. He should've had the balls to tell you how he felt instead of just doing it. But it's hardly surprising.

[Kate17]

Lola, as you can see, there are as many answers as there are members here. I can only give you my opinion. Don't feel betrayed. I thought I could surpress the urge to dress but I find it very difficult if not impossible. My wife puts up with my dressing and I have a girls nightout several times a month. But I find that the desire to dress has become stronger, not less as I thought it would. So did I lie when I told her it would eventually go away ? I don't think so but she might. I would love to integrete it into our life but she is not that accepting. Just understand that some of us can not or are not able to stop the flood of emotional satisfaction that is a result of expriencing our feminine side.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Lola, if i had a spouse who participated like you do, i would be talking to you all day and all night if I wanted more. :) In your So's defense, is it possible he assumed you wouldn't have a problem with it because everything else went so well? I'm not excusing the fact he didn't tell you he wanted to do this, nor implying that you tacitly approved it, just wondering if he didn't get caught up in the moment and thought you wouldn't mind.

[Barbara Ella]

Lola, i can only relate what I am doing along a similar line, and hope that the two of you can sit down and determine exactly what he was thinking and going to be doing. doing in violation of an agreed to boundary. And yes, sometimes our pink fog gets the best of us and we do dumb things, seldom maliciously.

About 8 weeks ago my wife went from a supportive, dress whenever, to a total DADT position, and wanted nothing to do with any mention of dressing. In my mind I took this to mean as long as it was ket from her I was free to do my thing. I went out 4 times, as posted here.

Well, Sunday night she wanted to talk,and she said she was ready to talk about it, and wanted to be included in knowing how i was progressing (only dressing for 9 months). She wanted to know what I had been doing, so i told her. She reacted as expected to my going out, and set a boundary that I would not leave the house enfemme to go out in our town. I was free to drive to another town, get a room, and dress and go out. She has serious issues with a friend seeing me in our town, and it impacting her/our position. I totally support this, and given her desire to discuss and know, and let me go out if I choose, it can work.

I know that the two of you can talk this out and determine exactly why he thought it was Ok for him to go out. He should be willing to recognize your boundaries and work within them. Sit down and be honest and make sure he knows your comfort levels, and can live within them. You need to know his desires/needs, and reach an agreement you both can live with.

Barbara

[Rianna Humble]

Like I said, it certainly sounds like he's the one in the wrong here, but "betrayed" is a pretty strong word, and there are a lot of details left out.

The details of how he was dressed and exactly what he intended to do outside of the marital home are incidental to the betrayal of trust evidenced by deciding to break his word to his wife.

If you discuss things with your wife and give her your word that you will do something (whether CD related or not) then unilaterally decide that your word to her meant nothing, then you are betraying her trust.

[mbmeen12]

Totally un-acceptable, failure to communicate! You are special and your CD SO is lucky to have you. Action plan is to sit CD SO down and set the ground rules again and failure to listen are the decisions your CD SO will live with. Sounds parental but it takes two in a family...The penalty ramifications for deceit is up to you...

[Kathy4ever]

Were the ground rules talked about before or were they just assumed. Like many have suggested communication is the key. He is a lucky to have you and be happy with what you have been doing. Many on here would be thrilled to get to do what you have been doing. If you are uncomfortable with his progression then please talk about it in a normal conversation. I really hate it when my wife is negative. I will listen better when she has normal conversations than when that negative rises up. I put up a stone wall in my defense. No one like to be attacked.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Hi Lola, sorry you are having problems now, when you thought things were going so well. Communication is the key - yes maybe your OH just assumed you would be cool with him going out, as you had been ok with dressing in the bedroom etc. Unfortunately some guys can be a bit thick when it comes to women's feelings, they might just need things spelt out for them. No offence intended to the guys but they are just not made the same as we GG's are and their emotions are just not like ours. Quite often they really dont know what they say or do annoys or upsets us.

You really need to sit down with your OH and discuss things calmly, and try not to get angry.

Ask him exactly what he wants from the CD'ing, how far he expects to be able to take it, wanting to go out alone or with you etc. and then tell him what you are prepared to agree to and what you feel comfortable with. Somewhere you should be able to meet in the middle so that both of you feel ok with the situation.
This isnt all about what he wants, neither is it all about what you will allow - both parties have needs and expectations and two sensible adults who love each other should be able to discuss the situation and compromise to the greater good of each other and the relationship.

Get in your 10 posts and come and join us GG's in the FAB forum - we would love to have you there.

SP x

[linda allen]

The responses are all over the place, but the bottom line is, Lola hasn't provided enough details for anyone to give a really good response.

Lola, we need to know a lot more about your relationship and exactly what was going on.

[Di]

Hello glad you are here:D
As everyone has said TALK
Find out...has he gone out before....where was he going...
Just know for most ( not all) they get to the point where they feel the need to go out.
You can get some things you both are comfortable with....there are tg/cd groups where you can attend meetings...safe places to go ect
But bottom line.....tell him you need to be on the same page and do not want surprises. He needs to open up with his thoughts and feelings on this.
It is not the end of the world...trust me....you can figure out between the both of you.

[Babeba]

We need details about this agreement. If it had always stayed in the bedroom, why was an agreement needed? Why bring it up? Because he told you that he didn't want it to always stay in the bedroom? If so, then maybe you should feel betrayed, but why would you be shocked if you already knew it was something he wanted to do?

It's an incredibly suspicious way of stating the situation.

I only pee in the bathroom. I do not go outside and pee on the sidewalk next to my apartment. But my landlord has never asked me to agree not to pee on the sidewalk. If I had to make a verbal agreement with my landlord not to pee on the sidewalk, that in itself means something strange is going on.

It sounds like you knew it was something he wanted to do, so you tried to tell him not to, and he tried to keep it in the closet so you would leave him alone. And then he resented it, so he decided he was going to do what he wanted. And now this happened. He should've had the balls to tell you how he felt instead of just doing it. But it's hardly surprising.


The time I rented in an apartment building, my lease DID actually cover peeing outside te bathroom! Ah, they joys of living downtown.

Regardless, you say you will do/not do something you should stick to it. SOs do often grow in their comfort levels, but it is slower/nonexistent when we are ignored or deceived or misdirected.

[Raquel June]

Hey! I'm not defending lying to your wife! The relationships I've ended (well, the serious ones) have mostly been because I was lied to. I'm just sayin', this situation's fishy, and calling it "betrayal" is just too dramatic without more complete information.

I know that the smallest lie is a betrayal of sorts, but there's a difference between "you said you weren't going to wear that, and you lied!" and "you said you weren't going to F my sister, and you lied!"

[Lola14U]

Thank you for your kind words. In reviewing most of the posts I realize I didnt do a good job outlining the situation to give a clear picture. Most are right we didnt sit down and say this dress up is only in the bedroom, however, we called it bedroom playtime. I truly believed that is what it was- nor was it extreme. I came home from work because I was sick. I intended to call him at work once I got home. When I got home, I found her standing by the front door heading out with the look of fear on her face. My immediate reaction was I am going to kick her *ss and then go upstairs and kick my hubby's *ss for having an affair... only for those thoughts to turn to confusion as I realized it was my hubby.

I did not realize the strong desire he had for this and has had for a lifetime. It had not been shared with me. Call me naive - but somehow I missed that memo for 15 plus years.

Since this has occured, we have had some conversations. I have not agreed to any boundaries as I am unsure how I feel about it or my comfort level. I have just requested some time to digest it all. During those conversations he has communicated to me that he has strong urges etc. to where I feel like it almost doenst matter what my boundaries are -- if he cant control then what?

When the time is right I will sit down and discuss the boundaries- I feel this website has helped me understand this more- but I wont deny I dont like sharing my information. It was very difficult for me to write the little I did. I am just trying to listen to what he has to say when we discuss it, read as much on here as I can, and figure out how I will accept.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my note. It lifted some of my burden

[Lorileah]

My immediate reaction was I am going to kick her *ss and then go upstairs and kick my hubby's *ss for having an affair... only for those thoughts to turn to confusion as I realized it was my hubby. Well then he looks passable :)


I did not realize the strong desire he had for this and has had for a lifetime. It had not been shared with me. Call me naive - but somehow I missed that memo for 15 plus years. Don't beat yourself up on this. You are preaching to the choir. You would be surprised how many women didn't know. CD's are good at hiding it until they want to get caught. Get 4 more posts so you can join the GG section here and you will get the real scoop. I am worried about him going out in the middle of the day but maybe that is the only time he felt you would not catch him dressed (maybe he was going to McDonald's)


Since this has occured, we have had some conversations. I have not agreed to any boundaries as I am unsure how I feel about it or my comfort level. I have just requested some time to digest it all. During those conversations he has communicated to me that he has strong urges etc. to where I feel like it almost doenst matter what my boundaries are -- if he cant control then what? he can and will agree to limits if he wants you to stay. This is rarely an uncontrollable compulsion (if it is he needs to have professional help...not to stop but to be able to be in control.). You sound like you are willing to work, he should realize that he is ahead of the game compared to many on here. Neither one of you will "win" if you don't remain flexible. On the other hand this could be a really good thing for your relationship because now you can talk and he can be candid. I hope it works out. :hugs:

[Mimi]

When the time is right I will sit down and discuss the boundaries- I feel this website has helped me understand this more- but I wont deny I dont like sharing my information. It was very difficult for me to write the little I did. I am just trying to listen to what he has to say when we discuss it, read as much on here as I can, and figure out how I will accept.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my note. It lifted some of my burden

I understand your feelings about sharing details. I am a very private person myself, and have a hard time writing about things in a forum. But it has helped me, and you are doing the right thing by sharing some of your feelings and details in an attempt to further your own understanding of the situation. Don't expect to accept everything all at once. Your SO has had many years to accept himself and to grow and develop his nature. You have just had a few days. It will take time, and your own feelings will fluctuate as you go through this with your spouse--this is all totally normal. Do keep posting so you can get your ten posts in and apply to FAB--it's been very helpful to me.

[Raquel June]

But what was his story??? Where was he going? How was he dressed? What time of day was it?

You still haven't really given any info that can help people give you any insight.

Maybe you work the night shift, and you came home at midnight and he was dressed like a prostitute and headed out to a club to try to hook up with somebody. Or maybe he had some kind of afternoon hookup he found on Craigslist that he was going to meet.

OR

Maybe he just really needed to have some personal dress-up time and was dressed like a normal woman and was just going to go to the mall or maybe just drive around, and you really shouldn't be angry.

One of them is a huge betrayal and you should divorce him, and the other one is totally innocent and you should try to get him to be more open. But who knows which one it is.

If you honestly don't know what he was up to, that's a bad sign.

[Lorileah]

But what was his story??? Where was he going? How was he dressed? What time of day was it?

You still haven't really given any info that can help people give you any insight.

Maybe you work the night shift, and you came home at midnight and he was dressed like a prostitute and headed out to a club to try to hook up with somebody. Or maybe he had some kind of afternoon hookup he found on Craigslist that he was going to meet.

OR

Maybe he just really needed to have some personal dress-up time and was dressed like a normal woman and was just going to go to the mall or maybe just drive around, and you really shouldn't be angry.

One of them is a huge betrayal and you should divorce him, and the other one is totally innocent and you should try to get him to be more open. But who knows which one it is.

If you honestly don't know what he was up to, that's a bad sign.


Maybe I am reading more into this but it sort of says "I was sick, he was supposed to be at work, I was going to call hime when I got home"

Specifically it says
I came home from work because I was sick. I intended to call him at work once I got home. When I got home, I found her standing by the front door heading out with the look of fear on her face. My immediate reaction was I am going to kick her *ss and then go upstairs and kick my hubby's *ss for having an affair... only for those thoughts to turn to confusion as I realized it was my hubby.


If nothing else he was supposed to be at work and wasn't. Sort of says "Hey, I am sneaking around" for whatever reason, even if sneaking out for a gallon of milk.

[Raquel June]

Sort of says "Hey, I am sneaking around" for whatever reason, even if sneaking out for a gallon of milk.

Yeah, but if he's just sneaking out for a gallon of milk and she flies off the handle and says "YOU'VE BETRAYED ME!" then who's the crazy one here?

[Lorileah]

Yeah, but if he's just sneaking out for a gallon of milk and she flies off the handle and says "YOU'VE BETRAYED ME!" then who's the crazy one here?

I don't remember discussing sanity. Somebody skipped work, without telling their SO, I don't care if it was just to watch porn all day. It is a sneaky underhanded thing. OK, back to the OP then. I'm outta this

[NicoleScott]

Lola, as you continue to talk, make sure you tell him not to agree to terms that he can't keep. And you, too.

[ReineD]

I came home from work because I was sick. I intended to call him at work once I got home. When I got home, I found her standing by the front door heading out with the look of fear on her face.

Hi Lola, welcome! :hugs:

This very much sounds like "do it now, ask for permission later".

There is a natural progression to the CDing (for most CDers). It can begin in the bedroom with lingerie type clothes, then progresses to skirts, heels, wigs, makeup. At this stage many CDers may dress as close to a sexy image of a woman as they can (the fishnets, mini skirts, stilettos, big boobs) and may to go to GLBT nightclubs, where CDers are generally welcome. After a while there is often a desire to refine the appearance and tone it down, so as to blend into the non-nightclub crowds better (and therefore not be read as a CDers), and go out into the mainstream. Not all CDers go through the "clubby" look stage.

If your husband is hiding the fact that he's been going out dressed, my first question would be how long he's been doing this, and why didn't he tell you. If I were to guess, I'd say that he was afraid you'd say no, or he is afraid to tell you how deep is his need to express femininity. He may even be questioning his own gender right now.

If he looked passable enough that you didn't recognize him, then he may have been doing this for a while. Not that there's anything wrong with this, my SO goes out in the mainstream as well (alone or with me), but there is still betrayal in the sense that your husband hasn't been disclosing everything to you. He minimized his needs, preferring to have you believe the CDing is nothing more than a bedroom kink. I don't blame you for being upset ... not over the CDing, but over not having been kept in the loop.

I wish you both all the best as you put everything on the table and begin a series of serious discussions about this. You can both get through this, but it will take complete honesty and also both of you having an ability to compromise. If your husband isn't a member here, please do suggest that he join, and also you might want to join FAB. The details are in the *Announcements* link next to FAB on the forum Index page.

[lowxr]

It's obvious you love and care for each other, 15 years is a long investment, have that discussion but openly and honestly and find a solution. Some of us can only wish for the understanding better half you appear to be.

[Raquel June]

I don't remember discussing sanity. Somebody skipped work, without telling their SO, I don't care if it was just to watch porn all day. It is a sneaky underhanded thing. OK, back to the OP then. I'm outta this

I'm sorry, but if you take some personal time off and your spouse flies off the handle and declares that they have been betrayed because you didn't consult them first, then you're married to a psycho.

Obviously, in this case, there is more going on. And as I've said before the husband is probably in the wrong. But give me a break about the "sneaky underhanded" business of having to ask your wife before you do anything. That's the kind of overbearing personality that makes people feel they have to be sneaky. There's no mutual respect.

[Babeba]

One thing I told my cousin in high school: 'if you aren't comfortable enough to talk with your boyfriend about disease and protection before you have sex, you aren't ready to do it.'

I think the same could apply in cross dressing families, too: if you are not comfortable with talking about going outside with your spouse, probably you may want to think twice about doing it! What if it had been a friend of Lola who happened to see this other woman exiting the house in the middle of the day? What if it were a neighbour? What if that person mentioned it to another person? These are realistic possibilities, and everyone living in the house may be affected in one way or another.

Also: everyone is entitled to their feelings. Most of them will end up, in the long run, resolving themselves one way or another. Discovering that a partner crossdresses really is the beginning of an emotional journey that can be intense and long (or short and uneventful, if you're lucky). However: every shred of anguish, of frustration, of happiness, of satisfaction, of hurt and of uncertainty is valid to the person who experiences it. It's not fair to trivialize those emotions, because we really cannot control that part of our reaction.

[Rianna Humble]

But what was his story??? Where was he going? How was he dressed? What time of day was it?

None of that is relevant to the fact that the OP and her husband had an agreement that the cross-dressing stayed in the bedroom and the husband betrayed the agreement.


Maybe I am reading more into this but it sort of says "I was sick, he was supposed to be at work, I was going to call hime when I got home"

Give it up Lori, Raquel is determined to blame the OP for the fact that her husband broke his agreement.

[MsJanessa]

Actually, the OP clarified that--they refered to it as "bedroom playtime", and there was an assumption on her part that it would stay in the bedroom---no explicit agreement between them that it would.

[Rebecca Star]

there was an assumption on her part that it would stay in the bedroom---no explicit agreement between them that it would.


it had always stayed in the bedroom which we both agreed upon.

I don't know how much clearer the OP can state there was an agreement between both parties.

Honestly, apart from the obvious lack of communication between the OP and her husband, for me, there is a lack of information in her post to begin with. A few sentences, it's just a bit too clinical (crafted). Especially for a thread started with the sensationistic title of "Betrayed".

[ReineD]

Please, everyone, please just read all the posts in this thread. It would save an awful lot of arguing:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?176858-Betrayed&p=2886019&viewfull=1#post2886019

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?176858-Betrayed&p=2887132&viewfull=1#post2887132

Her husband minimized the whole thing and led Lola to believe this was just a kinky bedroom thing, when in reality he goes out dressed when she thinks he is at work! Let's stop arguing about this and focus our advice on how Lola and her husband can best deal with this.

[Tina B.]

In forty two years of marriage, there never was a time I felt I had to explain, or apologize for, taking a day off at the last minute, without discussion it with anyone other than my employer, I certainly am going to wear whatever I feel like it at home, and alone. And if I want to run out in the middle of the day, I'm a grown up, I don't need anyones permission.
You may need to do this, but not unless I say so, and it must be kept in the bedroom only, and just lingerie, nothing more can be worn, did you marry the man, or adopt him? is he not a grown up.
You have said, there is no agreement, just what you though was an understanding. With you, it's bedroom play, and that's cool, but for him, it's a part of him. He needs to find himself, where does his feeling fit in to this. Just maybe you have driven him to this, because he is allowed no other outlet. Instead of laying down the law, try talking about it, see what his needs are, and what it takes to satisfy at least part of it. And then see if you can fit it into your life, if not, maybe your not right for each other, but if you hold on too tight, you will squeeze him to death! It's said if mommas's not happy, no one is, well it can also be said, if daddy's not happy, he won't stay around long.
It's not about what I want, it's not about what my partner wants, it's about what works for us as a couple, nothing else will work in the long run.
Tina B.

[Thera Home]

My Story: For quite some time i have been lurking... trying to find answers. We have been married for a while now with children. Our bedroom life was exciting, dressing up frequently. This started even before marriage.

Recently I came home from work and found my SO totally dressed and ready to go out. To say the least I was shocked- it had always stayed in the bedroom which we both agreed upon.

Aside from God family is my world. I feel totally betrayed. What would you do?

Lola
It seems what you have most folks want, a supporting wife.Now with dressing with her at home she may want to not only expierence her in intimacy but now wants her friendship also. (e.g. lets go out shopping,spend time with you outdoors knowing the whole you). Take it slowly and watch yourself to not get carried away.

Thera

[Babeba]

I think it would be a head trip to most people to see their spouse going to perform a sex act without their knowledge in public.

Now, that is not what was going on and we all know it, but if a person only knows their partner dresses in terms of bedroom spiciness, and all of a sudden they are fully dressed and going outside - yes, I can see that being a shock. I can see how emotionally it would provoke a lot of feelings. I also think that such a couple could work things through and make it not such a big deal eventually, if there is a lot of open talk between them from here on in. Lola will need to reframe cross dressing from a sexy bedroom thing to an everyday identity thing. Her husband will need to trust her more with what he is doing, instead of being ashamed of his actions and hiding them.

I personally find it concerning that Lola's husband would skip out on work in order to dress up - most employers wouldn't take hookey so lightly, and if Lola's spouse used a vacation day for that - How many does he get for them to use together? I hate seeing the urge to dress force couples apart, and there has got to be a way to balance these things all together.

[ReineD]

You have said, there is no agreement, just what you though was an understanding. With you, it's bedroom play, and that's cool, but for him, it's a part of him. He needs to find himself, where does his feeling fit in to this. Just maybe you have driven him to this, because he is allowed no other outlet. Instead of laying down the law, try talking about it, see what his needs are, and what it takes to satisfy at least part of it.

Lola discovered something that her husband had withheld from her and she is here trying to understand. There's a big jump between, "Honey, I'm a kinky sort of guy so why don't I put on a corset and we can have fun in bed", to "Ooops, I forgot to tell you that I may have gender issues and I also like to wear forms, wig, makeup, total outfits, and go out in public interacting with others as a woman while you believe me to be at work".

He should have discussed this with her long ago.

[Stephanie47]

Lola, I'm going to take the role of my wife in this discussion. You stated a few items in the bedroom, presumably for bedroom play. That was us decades ago. My wife and I would buy a nightgown or two for me to wear because I truly loved the feel of the nylon fabric. She bought me stockings and garter belts on occasion. She did ask me to not wear the nighties after our child was born and we lived in a one bedroom apartment with the crib in the same room. OK, no problem. I assumed. Then I progressed. I probably misinterpreted her mild acceptance of the bedroom attire for some approval for more. She and I finally realized there was more to me than just wearing a nylon gown when she found I had bought a bra and panties. Enough said. Casual bedroom play does NOT mean automatic acceptance of dressing up totally en femme and hitting the road for a casual night out.

Your hubby needs to take your feelings into consideration. You mentioned in the original post a strong religious belief/affiliation. If that means you fear non acceptance in your religious community, he must take that into consideration. Cross dressing has destroyed many marriages and relationships of all members of the family.

If your husband has the burning desire to express himself outside the bedroom and outside the home, he needs to negotiate with you. That may mean an evening with the kids at grandma's so he can express himself outside the bedroom WITH YOUR APPROVAL. It may mean an overnight trip to the beach or the mountains. It may mean finding a support group. Once the Jeannie is out of the bottle, she generally cannot be stuffed back in. That does not mean Jeannie should be swirling through the neighborhood without your approval.

[MsJanessa]

I don't know how much clearer the OP can state there was an agreement between both parties.

Honestly, apart from the obvious lack of communication between the OP and her husband, for me, there is a lack of information in her post to begin with. A few sentences, it's just a bit too clinical (crafted). Especially for a thread started with the sensationistic title of "Betrayed".

"Thank you for your kind words. In reviewing most of the posts I realize I didnt do a good job outlining the situation to give a clear picture. Most are right we didnt sit down and say this dress up is only in the bedroom, however, we called it bedroom playtime." - Lola14U

Not to be snarky about all this but the OP later explained the situation--she and her husband did NOT sit down and explicitly say this was strictly for the bedroon---they simply called it bedroom playtime---it looks like they had two different views on it--- The OP did not say her husband promised never to go out dressed--it sounds like that was her assumption.

My original comment was that Lola's reaction would be understandable if she came home and found her husband all tarted up (sky scrapper heels, leather miniskirt, tons of makeup, big hair etc) and headed out the door to the local TG pickup bar or the notell motel for an assignation with an internet pickup. However, if he was hanging around the house dressed or going to the local shopping mall, that's a little different--the first is in fact a violation of the marriage vows and is a betrayal. The second is not---I never heard of a wedding ceremoney that included the vows to love, honor and not to crossdress. That said, it sounds like the problem here has been a lack of communication, not a betrayal of trust.

[WifeofWrenchette]

"Thank you for your kind words. In reviewing most of the posts I realize I didnt do a good job outlining the situation to give a clear picture. Most are right we didnt sit down and say this dress up is only in the bedroom, however, we called it bedroom playtime." - Lola14U

Not to be snarky about all this but the OP later explained the situation--she and her husband did NOT sit down and explicitly say this was strictly for the bedroon---they simply called it bedroom playtime---it looks like they had two different views on it--- The OP did not say her husband promised never to go out dressed--it sounds like that was her assumption.

My original comment was that Lola's reaction would be understandable if she came home and found her husband all tarted up (sky scrapper heels, leather miniskirt, tons of makeup, big hair etc) and headed out the door to the local TG pickup bar or the notell motel for an assignation with an internet pickup. However, if he was hanging around the house dressed or going to the local shopping mall, that's a little different--the first is in fact a violation of the marriage vows and is a betrayal. The second is not---I never heard of a wedding ceremoney that included the vows to love, honor and not to crossdress. That said, it sounds like the problem here has been a lack of communication, not a betrayal of trust.It all depends on what his "intent" was and where he was going. It's up to the OP to find out. They need to talk and talk some more. Communication in this case is needed.

[Tina B.]

Lola discovered something that her husband had withheld from her and she is here trying to understand. There's a big jump between, "Honey, I'm a kinky sort of guy so why don't I put on a corset and we can have fun in bed", to "Ooops, I forgot to tell you that I may have gender issues and I also like to wear forms, wig, makeup, total outfits, and go out in public interacting with others as a woman while you believe me to be at work".

He should have discussed this with her long ago.

Reine, we have no argument on that, he should have talked it all out, so should she, I see the whole thing as a lack of communication, it's just that I still think, trying to set rules, that don't work for both people, just doesn't work. In the long run you have to find a way for both parties to walk away satisfied, or nothing can stay settled. She has her feeling about it, he has his needs, I hope they are able to work it out, but sometimes it's just not posible. So far I have not heard anything that makes him a bad person. I still don't know where he was going. I do not believe, a man or a women, should get to be a jailer for their mate, and this does not sound like anyone here, has set down rules, that are jointly agreed to. Unless we know he was heading out that door for a sexual encounter, I still think Betrayed is a bit over the top! Did he know he needed permission, it doesn't sound like that it was discussed.
Tina B.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I think the problem with expecting a wife to talk things through is that this assumes she knows what there is to talk about - if she's lead to believe that its just a bit of "bedroom play" then that's what she expects it to be. How many wives know the full extent to which crossdressing can go to unless they have either experienced it via their mate or have been searching the internet etc.

In this case, Lola was led to believe it was just bedroom play, it wasnt in her mind to talk things through any further than that because she obviously didnt think there was any more to it than that! Her husband, on the otherhand, must have known it was a lot more than that - IMO he should maybe have opened discussions about it and come clean.

I personally think Lola is justified in being rather annoyed and feeling betrayed - not so much by the actions, they may in fact have been harmless enough, but by virtue of the fact that her husband has decieved her by allowing her to believe his dressing was nothing more than bedroom play.

[ReineD]

I agree with SilentPartner and to answer you, Tina:


I still think, trying to set rules, that don't work for both people, just doesn't work.

... I don't see Lola trying to dictate anything. Lola is here (or was here? ... I hope the lack of understanding over her position hasn't scared her away), trying to understand what this is about. She did say she wishes to discuss boundaries which is another way of saying, "Lets start talking about this so we can reach a middle ground". I don't blame her for trying to center herself first to see how she feels about this, before talking to her husband. She's got to start somewhere.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I sincerely hope that certain posts havent driven Lola away - God knows, its hard enough to fathom some aspects of CD'ing, and when someone comes to a forum that purports to be a place for support and help, I guess that's what they are hoping to find.

[Allsteamedup]

Can I explain the betrayal (again)!!!!!

If you indulge in bedroom play with your SO that is exactly what it is. You, as a GG SO are in the place you feel safest and what takes place is intimate and trusting.

This is world's away from telling your partner you are CD. The two are entirely unrelated. I have tried to tell countless cders that trying things in the bedroom and then revealing you cd are two completely different issues. Hence the betrayal.

Also, when both of you work to support your children, taking sneaky days off to go out dressed is not a choice but a serious breach of trust

For Lola's SO to now explain away his stash of clothes (the money could have been spent on childrens' clothes or days out) and the rest of his paraphernalia is really starting at the beginning. This will require months of explanation, and a serious effort on his part to regain his wife's trust.

Truly she has been betrayed because deceit, dishonesty, and distrust have no place in mature relationships. This has nothing to do with her misunderstanding the situation, but a horrible shock that she was deceived into behaving one way in the bedroom so that her husband got vicarious thrills at her expense. How foolish will that make her feel?

Then she has to equip herself with the knowledge of cding whilst holding down a full time job, being ill and looking after her family.

This is yet another warning not to mix lingerie play in the bedroom with cding outside of it as an introduction for your partner.
If you want to be part of an adult relationship then at least behave like one.

[kimdl93]

Can I explain the betrayal (again)!!!!!

If you indulge in bedroom play with your SO that is exactly what it is. You, as a GG SO are in the place you feel safest and what takes place is intimate and trusting.

This is world's away from telling your partner you are CD. The two are entirely unrelated. I have tried to tell countless cders that trying things in the bedroom and then revealing you cd are two completely different issues. Hence the betrayal.

Also, when both of you work to support your children, taking sneaky days off to go out dressed is not a choice but a serious breach of trust

For Lola's SO to now explain away his stash of clothes (the money could have been spent on childrens' clothes or days out) and the rest of his paraphernalia is really starting at the beginning. This will require months of explanation, and a serious effort on his part to regain his wife's trust.

Truly she has been betrayed because deceit, dishonesty, and distrust have no place in mature relationships. This has nothing to do with her misunderstanding the situation, but a horrible shock that she was deceived into behaving one way in the bedroom so that her husband got vicarious thrills at her expense. How foolish will that make her feel?

Then she has to equip herself with the knowledge of cding whilst holding down a full time job, being ill and looking after her family.

This is yet another warning not to mix lingerie play in the bedroom with cding outside of it as an introduction for your partner.
If you want to be part of an adult relationship then at least behave like one.

Betrayal is far too strong and louded a term to describe this whole situation.

I'd challenge a number of these presumptions. One can claim that the bedroom and the rest of life are separate, but realistically they are not. It takes no great insight to imagine that what a CDr enjoys in the bedroom will also be appealing outside the bedroom. It may come as a bit of a surprise, it may be poor judgement, but its certainly not a betrayal.

The words "deciet, dishonesty and distrust" grossly overstate the alleged transgressions. Surprised and disappointment are reasonable reactions, but I would urge her not to burden the relationship with terms that are so strongly prejudicial. It would be fair to say "I'm disappointed to learn that you dressed outside the bedroom and went out in public without my knowledge. It would be mature to say "These are my concerns about what you're doing" and "How can we work this out, together?"

Wouldn't it be better if we offered suggestions to help this couple improve their relationship, rather than aggravating the conflict needlessly.

[ReineD]

I'd challenge a number of these presumptions. One can claim that the bedroom and the rest of life are separate, but realistically they are not. It takes no great insight to imagine that what a CDr enjoys in the bedroom will also be appealing outside the bedroom. It may come as a bit of a surprise, it may be poor judgement, but its certainly not a betrayal.

I'm going against my better judgment by continuing to engage in a discussion when the OP isn't here to clarify or deny our assumptions (I hate guessing), but in general, there really is a HUGE difference between dressing up for kinky fun in the bedroom and wanting to go out in public looking like a woman, behind a wife's back. The first is harmless play where the wife does not even IMAGINE that her husband "wants" to be a woman, the second indicates much deeper desires that to a spouse who knows nothing about this, can mean that he may have an entirely different gender identity than he had let on.

If Lola had not spent a significant amount of time learning about the full TG spectrum, how could she possibly have made the connection while they were just having kinky fun in the bedroom? I know from personal experience there are men who are not CDers and who get into kink with their wives/gfs, and they would not dream of wearing feminine things just for themselves outside of it.

If Lola's husband led her to understand that his desires were no deeper than this, then he lied to her and I don't blame her for feeling betrayed. And again, if he was passable enough that she didn't recognize him, it's an indication that he's been doing this for some time and his non-disclosure is just as severe as a husband who dresses in hiding and who has never had kinky experiences with his wife in the bedroom.

Gosh, even CDers know the difference between pure kink or fetish and someone who dresses to express something deeper.

[sometimes_miss]

I think a lot of assumptions are usually made by both husband and wife (in this and a whole lot more things, not just about crossdressing!), and those incorrect assumptions wind up leading to the feeling of being lied to, even though it hasn't actually happened. Of course as a crossdresser myself, I don't see it as a betrayal; but I can see how Lola (or any other wife) would. Women (and I guess sometimes men as well, but not as often) gain some part of their own identity by who their mate is. That's nothing new; it may seem a bit backward, as women have made lots of progress in the past 100 years or so in making their own path in the world instead of just becoming 'Mrs' someone. So I can understand well why a woman might not want anyone to know that her husband is a crossdresser, and that is half of what I see is going on here. The other half is of course the fear that the crossdressing isn't simply bedroom play time, but that he may really want to be, or feel that he is, a female. It's a problem from both angles: We (crossdressers) do our best to minimize the 'problem' by not telling our SO's to what extent we feel the need to dress up, exactly because we fear she'll freak out about it, and she'll start on the whole 'You're not the man I married!' tirade, when we know that we haven't changed at all, only her perception of who we are, has. The real cause each of us crossdresses is so rarely known that it's often difficult to tell exactly how things will wind up.
And the problem with knowing the difference between 'pure kink/fetish' or something more, is sometimes it's a bit of both at the moment, because the affected person still doesn't know exactly what they are yet (not to mention, that we are continuously changing as we live, so that may change as well!).

[ReineD]

It doesn't look as if Lola is coming back, so I guess we can talk about theory. :)


Women (and I guess sometimes men as well, but not as often) gain some part of their own identity by who their mate is.

If you mean by identity, that women need to be with men who identify as men in order to feel feminine, this is not true. Hetero women want to be with men because this is the way they are wired in just the same way that hetero men do not get turned on by other men. If GGs are not hetero, they are lesbian (or bi) and they have no issues being with women. :)


So I can understand well why a woman might not want anyone to know that her husband is a crossdresser, and that is half of what I see is going on here.

Women don't want others to know their husbands are CDers for the same reasons that CDers are in closets. It's because of the bias that exists in our society, and the fear they, their husbands, and their children will be ostracized by those in their immediate circles.



We (crossdressers) do our best to minimize the 'problem' by not telling our SO's to what extent we feel the need to dress up, exactly because we fear she'll freak out about it, and she'll start on the whole 'You're not the man I married!' tirade, when we know that we haven't changed at all, only her perception of who we are, has. The real cause each of us crossdresses is so rarely known that it's often difficult to tell exactly how things will wind up.

First, this is not a tirade, it is real emotions of surprise and fear that emanates from a woman who is in shock that her husband is not who he had presented himself to be. Second, you mention a CDer minimizing things to his wife and this is not OK in a committed relationship. A partner feels lied to when this happens, and she feels betrayed with the knowledge that her husband kept an important part of who he is from her. She feels as if she has been living with a stranger and she wonders what else he is not telling her. And if the husband cannot tell his wife where "things will wind up", how can she live without worry, wondering if this will lead to wanting to live full time after retirement, given both truths, that she is not wired to be attracted to women and there is a degree of bias in our society towards men who live as women.

I'm not saying that no woman can stay the course at all. I'm saying there is a long journey ahead for any wife who did not know about this from the onset, that is fraught with conflicting emotion and redefinition of what is gender and sexual orientation. A GG not only needs to redefine her husband and their relationship, she needs to redefine herself.

[Wildaboutheels]

Clearly CDing was a huge thing to him and you were unaware of the full extent of it. And no telling how long he had been dressing and going out. Which was clearly not something [in your mind] you had bargained for. DOES the timeline make a difference? If he had been going out for X days or X years? Do you know WHAT he is/was doing when he goes out dressed? Are you worried about what he MIGHT be doing when he goes out? Those would have to be concerns for any GG. Unless they actually DO go out with their "dressed" mates. The worry/wonder/why factor could easily ruin an otherwise solid Relationship I think.

There ARE CDers here who dress fully and have no desire to ever leave their house. And don't. CDers come in all manner of flavors and varieties. Unless there are other troubling matters in your Relationship, I would make every attempt to try to work this out with him. "Good mates" are hard to find.

[bridgetta]

try to understand. most of us would never have asked to be this way.. we do the best we can to deal with it and to deal with a world that doesnt "get it" its not at all easy.. .the brain has its own logic.. and as its a sensory thing it can be overwhelming to constantly supress..

[kimdl93]

It doesn't look as if Lola is coming back, so I guess we can talk about theory. :)....


I'm not saying that no woman can stay the course at all. I'm saying there is a long journey ahead for any wife who did not know about this from the onset, that is fraught with conflicting emotion and redefinition of what is gender and sexual orientation. A GG not only needs to redefine her husband and their relationship, she needs to redefine herself.

In Lola's case she may have had some inklings about her husbands inclinations but in her mind it was apparently just bedroom fun...and maybe he thought so too, at one point in time. What her experience illustrates is the awful risk we as CDrs take when we try to keep any part of ourselves a secret from an SO. first, we are at risk of the unfortunate and unexpected outing...on the incumbent and sometimes mutual shock, shame and embarrassment. Second, we lose the initiative to control the narrative of our lives and to reveal ourselves in a calm, well thought out manner. And finally, the point of Lola's post, we run the risk of damaging or losing the precious commodity of trust. That's something so difficult to recover once lost.

[Kaz]

OK... against my internal judgement, but here I go. Lola may or may not come back, but if she does (and you are reading this Lola), there will be a lot to read through and digest!

Some great posts here on all levels. I was all fired up and then some latter posts caught it for me... Betrayal is a big word! If I do not tell my SO about something that I do not understand and cannot put into words is it betrayal? Is learning something about yourself but not being sure what it is or what it may (or may not) become, and fearing that if you talk about it, it will cause an issue that you will not be able to discuss with any sense of meaning... betrayal?

My wife has with-held things from me because she felt it was the right thing to do - for me and the family. So have I... We did it out of love and mutual respect - it hurts - but we must look for the positive intention in people's actions, thoughts and attitudes.

As Kim said... it is about trust. I may not like some of things my wife chooses to do or not do, but I trust her intentions... implicitly.

[kimdl93]

And sometimes an act omission can threaten that trust, you just never know. I agree that betrayal is a strong word, and as are one suggested earlier, we're missing some context that might reflect on the choice of words and the emotions behind them.

[Michelle01]

Just talk to him about it... He probably likes being enfem and was afraid to share those desires with you. Some open conversation, open mindedness and a little compromise will likely solve everything. That is if he's not cheating on you.

[Lola14U]

Thank you for all your comments. There is a lot of information for me to digest and understand. I felt betrayed as I was not told the extent of his CDing---didnt have a clue. I know now a days lies and dishonestly may not seem like much, but for me it was. Trust is big for me. Maybe I should have titled it... Dishonesty-- to eliminate those who provided feedback that it was too strong of a word. I feel the discription was appropriate for me and am comfortable with not every one agreeing. The point of the issue is I was completely blindsided and had no way of knowing I needed to set these boundaries as I didnt know the issue existed. But I am trying to learn, understand and accept the best I can. I dont see this happening over night and have found this site extremely helpful! Thank you all for your comments and insight-

Thank you for your support. I hope to apply for FAB as it seems like that might be a good place for me to find support.

Bullseye! Thank you for your post and your support!


None of that is relevant to the fact that the OP and her husband had an agreement that the cross-dressing stayed in the bedroom and the husband betrayed the agreement.



Give it up Lori, Raquel is determined to blame the OP for the fact that her husband broke his agreement.

At this point I am not trying to blame anyone...that was never my goal... I am simply trying to understand it.


I sincerely hope that certain posts haven t driven Lola away - God knows, its hard enough to fathom some aspects of CD'ing, and when someone comes to a forum that purports to be a place for support and help, I guess that's what they are hoping to find.

It did somewhat ...but everyone has a right to their opinion. There are several that I totally disagree with but many more are on target. All I can do it is take it one day at a time! Thank You!


OK... against my internal judgement, but here I go. Lola may or may not come back, but if she does (and you are reading this Lola), there will be a lot to read through and digest!

Some great posts here on all levels. I was all fired up and then some latter posts caught it for me... Betrayal is a big word! If I do not tell my SO about something that I do not understand and cannot put into words is it betrayal? Is learning something about yourself but not being sure what it is or what it may (or may not) become, and fearing that if you talk about it, it will cause an issue that you will not be able to discuss with any sense of meaning... betrayal?

My wife has with-held things from me because she felt it was the right thing to do - for me and the family. So have I... We did it out of love and mutual respect - it hurts - but we must look for the positive intention in people's actions, thoughts and attitudes.

As Kim said... it is about trust. I may not like some of things my wife chooses to do or not do, but I trust her intentions... implicitly.


I would imagine each relationship is different. My trust has been broken and I hope in time we can work through it. I am pretty certain if the shoe was on the other foot for you, you may respond differently. Regardless you have your right to your opinion and I appreciate your comments. Thank you!

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Lola I'm so pleased that you have come back - please do get your 10 posts in and join us in FAB forum.

The fact that you are here is testament to the fact that you are willing to try and work this through with your OH. I hope he is also making the effort.:hugs:

[Lorileah]

Welcome back!



At this point I am not trying to blame anyone...that was never my goal... I am simply trying to understand it.


pssst...Rhianna was saying that Raquel was blaming you :) Things taht seem not important can be a real blow to the other person. We often assume that "it isn't a big deal". But it can be a big deal. When something like this happens the partner (you) who gets blindsided starts to ask "what else are you hiding?" Yes it is clothes, clothes that if your SO had asked maybe you would have said "Yeah go ahead" about wearing. But the fact that it was done on the sly makes you wonder. Most of us know that. How are things going? (and if you reply to this that is one more post closer to getting your 10 :))

[Silentpartner GG SO]

and if you reply to this that is one more post closer to getting your 10 )

nice one Lorileah :thumbsup:

[ReineD]

Hi Lola, welcome back.

Please do post enough times to count ten total posts outside of any posts made in Intro sections, and then apply to join FAB. I think you will be helped by FAB as well. :hugs:

[Jessica86]

It isn't the dressing that is bothering you. It's the fact it has been "hidden" for 15 years. The act of hiding in itself. I think since you are comfortable in the room with it, he thought he had free reign since you "knew" that he wears things like that. All you need to do is tell him you are not okay with him leaving the home like that. He should respect your needs. If not, he obviously has no idea what he has.

[Raquel June]

People are all over the place with their advice, and I think ReineD and Tina B. both make very good (and conflicting) points.

I just don't understand why she won't say what her husband was planning to do. That's a pretty important piece of information -- and if he won't tell her or she doesn't trust him to be honest about where he was going, that's also an important piece of information.

[donnalee]

I'm amazed at the number of people who have given advice, most of it extremely drastic, without any kind of clear information as to who the OP was,who did what to whom and under what circumstances. Even after some info was provided, it was far from enough to form an opinion and certainly not enough to give recommendations as to how the OP should proceed.
One thing that has always bothered me is the often expressed idea that a couple should have to share every bit of of their lives with each other; sometimes it is far better to keep a portion to oneself. I don't understand how someone can feel "betrayed" without violation of a prior agreement; none has been indicated here.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Lola,

Having been in the community for a long time and having seen many significant others upset about crossdressing, it has been my experience that trust is the major issue. I have yet to meet the partner of a transgendered person, who did not know the person was transgendered, or to what extent they were, that did not feel a sense of betrayal and or trust broken. There are supposed to be no secrets, and yet it happens.

I was in a similar situation as your husband, my now ex-wife knew I liked to wear panties and lingerie in the bedroom, but she had no idea that I had felt like I was a girl since I was very young. One reason, and not much discussed here, is denial. I did the same things your husband did. I dressed in secret, I hid my clothes from my ex-wife and even wore them in public secretly. Even when she caught me, as you caught your husband, I was still denying it was anything other than a fetish.

The reason is because I felt I could do nothing about it. Around age 19 I realized that I was never going to transition. There was no internet and all the crossdressers I seen were on Phil Donahue as female impersonators and entertainers. I didn't know about Harry Benjamin and the first sex change operations in the United States did not happen until the 70's. Basically I had to accept I was a freak and no one could ever know the truth. I was going to have to live as a man.

But in my first year of marriage my ex suggested we try on each others underwear during a sexual encounter, so we did. This emboldened me so I did it more and bought more lingerie. I started wearing them under my clothes at work, dressing in secret when she was not at home and even to bed in lingerie, without my ex knowing. Eventually she found out, we had a huge fight and I had to purge all my clothes and promise to never crossdress again, to avoid divorce and loss of custody of my children. This was a promise I would not be able to keep.

After many fights and many purges we reached an agreement where I could wear girls underwear full time with her knowledge, but it was begrudged acceptance. Still, whenever I was alone, or on business trips, I would buy more clothes and wear them and even throw them away before I came home, if I had to.

The thing is, I didn't want to lie, she made me lie by being inflexible and continually threatening to divorce me, out me, and take my kids. Over the years, the resentments grew and eventually she did what she said. She outed me to my brother, and that started what would become a very nasty divorce. But once outed, I embraced it and have lived as a woman ever since.

I married a woman who only knows me as Elizabeth. We are best friends and spend almost all of our time together. We are friends, girlfriends, lovers and each others number one fan. I have been living in the open since that time and in the end, all of my children excepted me and my three minor children at the time of the divorce all chose to live with me, even living as a woman.

So your husband may be in denial. I never dreamed I could actually live my life as a woman, so I remained in denial about how serious my gender dysphoria was. My ex asked me many times if I wanted to live the "crossdresser lifestyle", and I always denied it saying it was just a fetish. I would suggest you and your husband get some therapy and find out what each of you really feels. Only then will communication be useful.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I think something as contentious as going out fully dressed en femme, when the wife is safely at work is implied betrayal. To say that there was no agreement is IMO splitting hairs. There are lots of things in life and marriage that arent specifically gone over with a fine tooth comb, its just obvious what is expected.

For example - when you get married, its fairly well implied that you are not going to sleep around. You dont specifically agree not to do so. If you decide an open marriage is what you want, then you would brooch the subject and discuss it. You wouldnt expect to just go ahead and sleep with the nextdoor neighbout and then say "well you didnt say I couldnt" would you???

Lola was, by implication, lead to believe that her SO's dressing was "bedroom fun" - therefore the implication was that it was going to stay in the bedroom. Something as fundamental as going out fully dressed 'in secret' when she wasnt around is pretty sneaky - that's not just 'not sharing every detail' that's downright deceitful. Lola may have been absolutely ok with her husband going out dressed but she wasnt given the opportunity to say yay or nay.

You cannot seriously expect a wife to say what she is ok with if she doesnt know what there is to be ok or not ok about. The onus is on the husband to say what it is he is wanting from the dressing and then discuss with his wife what she is ok with - and take it from there, regardless of what the intention was or where the husband was going when he was dressed. IMO that is slightly irrelevant in this case. The issue here is something being done deliberately behind the wife's back. I would be pretty damn miffed about if it happened to me and I am very accepting of my husband's CD'ing. I would add that my husband would not do this without running it by me first anyway.

[Kaz]

Hi Lola, I just want you to think about posting so you get your 10 in and then join the FAB (female at birth) group and you will get tons of advice from women that have shared experiences with you - this is a really good support forum! You don't have to say much in a post... just meet the character quota... 20 words will do it! Probably less..

I hope my post helped in terms of context... every relationship is different and there are no generic fixes, but we can learn from others ('cases'.. is the usual term). English Common Law is based on this principle and the line of academic research I am involved in also works on this principle... that knowledge is built from experience.

I hope you hang in here and get to work things out. You have reached a crowd who really want to help!

[Babeba]

Lola, I'm so glad to see you post again! Please do keep posting - I really want to see you join us in FAB! Both Reine and I have links to how to join at the bottom of our posts.




I just don't understand why she won't say what her husband was planning to do. That's a pretty important piece of information -- and if he won't tell her or she doesn't trust him to be honest about where he was going, that's also an important piece of information.

Raquel, I think Lola has been trying to give the bare minimum information because this is a board that is visible by anyone, and she is not super comfortable with that. I know I would hate to give any details here that would out myself (and therefore my boyfriend, who is not out as a cross dresser and has a quite public role in a very small town) in case someone we know did a Google search that happened to bring up something (anything) that was - to them - identifiable. Some wives are not comfortable with how they feel, are not ready to express that to their husbands, and need to work through things logically before they can talk about things to their husbands that involve such confusing emotions. This is why we have FAB, to be private, supportive and for GGs in relationships with people in this community only.

On one purely logical level, a lot of people are objectively right - why on Earth would some simple scraps of cloth cause something so strong as betrayal? But then when you acknowledge that EVERY FEELING YOU FEEL IS VALID, you remember that people sometimes die for wearing the wrong colour bandana in LA (something no one told me when I was in my bandana loving phase as a teenager and visited there!), that people wear their national identity in their keffiyehs, and let's not forget all the emotional reactions so many people have to full Muslim dress. My point being, feelings are feelings and they can be strong about clothing, even unexpectedly.

[suchacutie]

I just reread this entire thread and the word betrayal is not unwarrented here, IMHO. Lola was led to believe that the extent of her husband's feminine self was a bit of bedroom activity.

Suddenly she finds her husband completely transformed, and as we all know that kind of sophistication does not happen overnight. Lola had been systematically mislead. How can that fact not destroy trust? You all know how the logic goes: "if he can mislead me in this, what else is there lurking around the next corner"? We have all read, on this forum, about how this kind of undermining of trust can break a marriage. We also know just how difficult the psychology of being transgendered can be, and how hard it is to open up to anyone, a spouse included.

This is a serious issue and some professional help may be needed, not to condemn anyone or try to "cure" anyone, but in order to rebuild the trust that is necessary in every strong relationship.

I truly hope that both Lola and her husband can come to understand the very difficult issues that surround them. I know we all understand how had this can be and are pulling for them strongly!

tina

[Jessica86]

^^ The marriage thing was a poor example. You DO agree to not sleep around if you get married in a Christian setting. Adultery ring a bell? It's one of the ten commandments......

I could understand if she came home to find him with another woman...feeling "betrayed." That's breaking a WRITTEN and PROMISED code. When you get married and promise to "love HER and KEEP HER," that's where that is. The bottom line thing you need to look at is this. This is a preference someone has. Someone has a preference to do what they do. If he was to go out in his boxers to check the mail, would you feel "betrayed?" If he prefers to eat alligator, would you feel "betrayed"? I have only felt betrayed twice in my life. The two times my ex wife cheated on me. Once just forty eight hours before we got married...after waiting ten years to get married as virgins. THAT'S betrayal.

Did he lie to you? Probably so. This is like giving a kid a ball, saying "Play with it in your room." You come home, and find he's outside with it, and you are upset he's playing with the ball JUST because he's outside. I know I'm up against the majority, but I would understand this alot more if you didn't approve of it at all. If you didn't know anything, and came home to find it. I know when I dress, I walk around in heels, dressed to impress at times just because I want to. I don't leave, but I dang sure look like I'm going to. I don't see betrayal as an appropriate word here.

[ReineD]

Let me ask those of you who feel that "betrayed" is too strong a word.

Aside from the fact that Lola and her husband were kinky in the bedroom, do you feel that a GG in general is overreacting if she feels a sense of betrayal when she discovers that her husband has hidden the CDing from her, and that the gender issues are strong enough to the point where he feels it necessary to go out and present as a woman in public?

Keep in mind that to Lola, wearing panties for kink is as unrelated to the CDing as having a foot fetish.

[Jessica86]

Reine, after two people meet, we learn things about each other. I know one thing that aggravates my wife is that if I am really tired, I shake my feet to help me fall asleep. She doesn't like eggs unless they are scrambled. She hates seafood, yet, I'm from an island where that is all we ate! All of these things are preferences and we all learn things about each other the other tried to hide. It's not betrayal, it's developing a relationship as long as the issues are talked about. What you must ask yourself is how much do you love your partner? If they got hooked on drugs, would you help them or just give up on them and leave? What about a disease? What about finding out they were really a man/woman? I can tell you I would deal with any of those things in a heart beat because I love my wife. You deal with things you don't want to because these problems arise in relationships. They just do. No matter who you are married to. Sure, if abuse or cheating occurs, that's different as it is deemed by the churches who founded marriage as wrong. This is just a different kind of problem...that really isn't a problem when you think about it. He doesn't beat you, stay out all night drinking or getting high, or cheat on you. He just likes to be himself. Unlike the others, this is easy. Take him into a room. If you approve, say you do. If you don't, say you don't, and would prefer not to see him like that. It's that easy. If that isn't respected, then sure, draw the line. Highly doubt it will happen though because he knows he upset you. I just don't see betrayal fitting into ANY situation we are in just from the dressing alone. Betrayal is promising one thing, and doing another. That doesn't apply here to me.

[ReineD]

All of these things are preferences and we all learn things about each other the other tried to hide.

Ahhh! But this is where the attitudes of CDers and their wives fundamentally differ. To the CDers who have felt a kinship with femininity (to varying degrees) all or most of their lives, or for a number of years, this is a part of their very fabric and it really is no big deal. They know who they are, it's normal for them, they've lived in their own skins and they have no other sense of gender identity than what they experience daily. I think it's safe to say that most CDers don't really understand why the non-accepting wives are so non-accepting. As you say, the prevailing attitude is, "I'm no different than I always was. Doesn't she love me enough to accept my inner core?"

But, gender variance to most people is not only confusing, it is disapproved of and censured even if subconsciously, and this comes from society's general lack of understanding. There is a lack of understanding because there are so few CDers and they have kept themselves closeted, which perpetuates the lack of understanding. You know that homosexuality used to be considered a mental disease and even today it is considered a perversion in some circles. The same attitudes prevail over M2F cross-gender expression. Unlike her husband, a wife has nothing in her own internal landscape to relate to that will give her a sense of normalcy. She is very much a product of societal ignorance and bias (just like the CDs who hate the CDing and who go through years of purging cycles) and I cannot blame her for feeling as if it is *a big deal* to discover that her husband might be *one of those*. If he has purposely hidden the full extent from her (again, there is quite a jump from kinky bedroom play to full CDing), she feels betrayed.

This is not to say that she cannot embark on a learning path, and certainly Lola is here to do this. But the initial reaction is very much one of betrayal over having been lied to about something that is so HUGE. It's apparent from reading the responses in this thread that few people will understand a wife's POV, other than the wives who have walked in her shoes.

If Lola says that she feels betrayed, this is how she feels and no one has the right to tell her that her feelings are wrong. People can suggest ways that she can learn more about the CDing in order to move beyond her feelings of betrayal, but to invalidate her feelings is not a way to help someone who wants to understand her husband.

I didn't mean to write so much, but honestly this is a no-brainer to me and I'm astounded there are so many people who just don't get it.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Reine, I totally agree with you but I think that you are banging your head on a brick wall. Some people are just not willing to see things from the wife's point of view, which I find a bit rich because they will quickly complain about their wives not willing to try and understand their need to dress. It goes both ways doesnt it.

[Jenniferathome]

.... do you feel that a GG in general is overreacting if she feels a sense of betrayal when she discovers that her husband has hidden the CDing from her...

No, it is not. In fact, if he has been saying it was just bedroom fun, he has been lying. It always comes back to the "if he can lie to me about this, what else is there?" question. Going "out" is absolutely something that should be discussed. I am not saying the husband has to ask for permission, but both his feelings and hers need to come out.

[Kaz]

This has certainly opened up some interesting viewpoints, and having read through the thread again I am minded by the lack of context we have to Lola's situation. I therefore suspect that many of the 'stances' that seem to be being taken are more subjective than objective. Nothing wrong with this, but this opens up another level of debate around those subjective stances. In this arena, it is usual that a lot of assumptions are being made and then the tendency is to retrench to comfortable 'positions'. And then the debate gets polarised and breaks down into the usual male - female perspectives. Certainly I have approached this from 'my position' of 'intention'. As people we develop and change over time but my intention in my relationship has always been positive. I have always put my wife's feelings, needs and wants before mine. The case I guess I was postulating was that sometimes it is difficult to tell what we don't understand and maybe haven't realised yet. This is certainly true for me and my marriage. My wife has been deeply upset that she now has something going on that she didn't 'sign up' for... but I feel the same about other things... I just rationalise it as 'she didn't know life was going to pan out like this at the time, so how could she have told me?'.

Now if Lola's partner has 'known' about where his interest in women's clothes was going to take him all along and he had a plan to deceive her, then yeah, guilty as charged... and I really feel for Lola. If he is just mixed up and trying to work through his issues so that he can then communicate, this is very different.

I have learned so much from this forum and if I knew then what I know now I would have done things very differently indeed. It would have been a very different journey indeed.

My natural inclination is not to judge and condemn, but to understand... and then build for the future...

[Rianna Humble]

if Lola's partner has 'known' about where his interest in women's clothes was going to take him all along and he had a plan to deceive her, then yeah, guilty as charged... and I really feel for Lola.

So, do you feel that having let Lola believe that this was just bedroom playtime but in parallel spent so much time that he could perfect a look that initially deceived his wife, this indicates he was simply mixed up?

Or would you say that taking time off of work to dress up with full make-up and go out was just part of him not knowing where the "bedroom playtime" would lead?


My natural inclination is not to judge and condemn, but to understand...

It is good that you don't judge and condemn, perhaps you can set an example for Raquel and the others who blame Lola for not knowing that "bedroom playtime" meant going behind her back to perfect a look and go out en femme at a time when she thought he was at work.

[Kaz]

I wish I had all your wisdom and understanding Rianna. I will back out of this as I am clearly outclassed in the understanding and tolerance stakes. I unreservedly apologise to everybody I have offended by trying to be open and honest and not to take sides, but rather to seek understanding. There are times, I now appreciate, where tolerance and a genuine need for understanding are not appropriate and I sincerely apologise for getting that call wrong.

Just for the record, Lola, if you are reading this, please feel free to PM me (send me a personal message) - I would be really happy to share my experiences with you. I totally support your concerns and feelings and am seeking to understand, learn, help, etc... The place I am coming from is one of... if I can share with you my thoughts and emotions as I struggle with this journey I have been on, then the world might be a more informed place and we might make better life decisions... I am NOT supporting your SO as I don't have sufficient data, but I have been trying to explore potential scenarios...

I am still with my wife and we have had many ups and downs... I don't know what the future holds, we have difficulties to deal with on both sides and in relation to our kids, relatives, etc.. life gets complex as you get older...! She will not accept any of it... she regards it as kinky and doesn't want to know. For me it isn't kinky... and it is isn't weird... it is just me.

I thought that I might help... if I am not, just push the exterminate button... I am just another cross-dresser who didn't realise what it was about until it was too late and has been repairing the damage for a long, long time.

And to Rianna... your tag says...'to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any....'

I thought I was... but your words of wisdom and well thought through implications just leave me in awe! I bow to you...

And I apologise to everyone on the thread and in particular Lola... I did post with positive intention... and I do feel for what you are going through...

[Rianna Humble]

I wish I had all your wisdom and understanding Rianna. I will back out of this as I am clearly outclassed in the understanding and tolerance stakes.

I'm sorry that you saw this as a put-down I was trying to use your words to bring out my questions relating to what a number of people have been saying in the thread and I genuinely meant what I said about your attitude being an positive example to other posters.

Numerous posters have condemned the OP for feeling her trust had been betrayed and have even gone so far as to accuse her (IMNSHO unjustly) of behaving intolerantly towards her husband because she has come here trying to find a way to understand. You, Kaz, were not one of them.

[Beverley Sims]

I think you should all slow down, read Reniee's posts #92 and #94.
The explanations there do help level the playing field and a lot of discussion seems duplicated.

[Jessica86]

Reine, I totally agree with you but I think that you are banging your head on a brick wall. Some people are just not willing to see things from the wife's point of view, which I find a bit rich because they will quickly complain about their wives not willing to try and understand their need to dress. It goes both ways doesnt it.

What about those like me? Those who have a WIFE who says she thinks people are crazy for thinking it's a big problem. She's the one who gave me "he doesn't beat her, do drugs, stay out all night drinking and cheating on her..." line. I was the one who didn't think about that until SHE told ME. I agree with her. I have a career where I deal with people's problems. Daily. Hourly. I can say it can be WAYYYY worse between people. I get what Reine is saying, but I just think (and wife too) that this is over reaction. This is something you tell someone you don't want, and it is fixed. If not, then you leave if it's that big of a deal to you to separate you from someone you have been with all along, and hasn't changed. There are those who don't accept it. Saying that, I'm happy they say they don't. At least they acknowledge us, and give us an honest answer. When reading posts, I'm lucky enough to have a wife read with me, and even she says this doesn't make sense. Just tell him your thoughts and act on his response.

[Babeba]

Jessica86,

I am very glad that your spouse is supportive and sees this as all no big deal. That does not
mean that everyone in a relationship feels this way, or that it is appropriate to the situation. Every post should be read as its own situation.

In this case, feeling betrayal is completely valid. I think everyone can agree that catching your spouse cheating with another woman is grounds for feeling betrayal. Lola has said when she saw him leaving the house she did not recognize him and thought she HAD caught another woman coming out. Now, add to that huge feeling of betrayal the confusion of "huh? That is my husband?" as well as emotions about him going out without Lola knowing... Let's be honest, if you don't want to let your wife knowing about your actions which she later finds out you are doing, you are probably expecting some bad reaction from
her and it is probably for good reason... And not necessarily something unreasonable.

[Jessica86]

That's the part we are not getting. Her husband dressed in the bedroom already. How could she NOT know that woman at her front door was him? If the whole bedroom aspect wasn't here, it would make sense to feel betrayed. Her husband hadn't left the home yet. Also, she caught him inside after walking in. So, as a dresser, I can say we dress up all the way sometimes. So, if he wasn't outside, he must have either told her he was leaving, or she is assuming he was. I don't know a single guy who would be dumb enough to say "I was leaving." In that case. I am not defending the guy's actions, and she SHOULD be mad at him IF he was leaving. There's just too many holes in the story, and that is what confuses us.

[ReineD]

That's the part we are not getting. Her husband dressed in the bedroom already. How could she NOT know that woman at her front door was him? If the whole bedroom aspect wasn't here, it would make sense to feel betrayed.

I've mentioned it but you may have missed it, so I'll say it again.

Putting on panties or nylons or whatever to have fun in the bedroom IS NOT CDING in the sense that we understand it to be in this forum, to a GG like Lola. To her it's just a kinky thing, like someone who has a foot fetish, or a thing for latex, or a thing for bondage. Or whips. Or whatever other kinky things that people do in bedrooms.

Why is this so difficult for CDers to understand? LOTS OF MEN are kinky in the bedroom with all sorts of things, even panties, without being CDers!

She really had no clue and to come home to (1) see her husband dressed head to toe ready to go out (presumably with forms, wig, and makeup), and (2) that he should have knowingly done this behind her back when she thought he was at work, is purposely deceitful. And he must have been doing it for quite some time if she didn't recognize him.

And good lord, we've just had several threads about CDers who insist they never even want to go out! So it seems that Lola's husband did not go from A to merely exploring B with Lola, he went way beyond this. We've had wives whose husbands only dress at home and it's a shock for many of them to even be told their husbands want to put on a wig or shave their legs, let alone getting breast forms and putting on makeup!

[linda allen]

.............. Raquel, I think Lola has been trying to give the bare minimum information because this is a board that is visible by anyone, and she is not super comfortable with that. ..............

Well, the board may be visible by anyone, but unless you use your real name, post your hometown or post photos, etc. nobody will know who you are. "Linda Allen" is not my "real" name. :heehee:


There's a big jump between, "Honey, I'm a kinky sort of guy so why don't I put on a corset and we can have fun in bed", to " "Ooops, I forgot to tell you that I may have gender issues and I also like to wear forms, wig, makeup, total outfits, and go out in public interacting with others as a woman while you believe me to be at work".
.

From a male point of view, I don't believe that crossdressing automatically means a person has "gender issues". Certainly some of us do. For others, we may not understand why, but it's not that we are uncomfortable with our gender.

[Wildaboutheels]

True or False?

MOST of the "CDers" who post here are on an ever evolving, ever changing journey? And don't really know where they will end up down the road?

Have all the GGs who post here seen that with their own partners? That the current "place" on their SO's journey is NOT the same place as when you first met them?

It just seems to me that the "journey" for most here is incremental isn't it? So many here seem "surprised" [my interpretation anyway] at just how far they have come. It IS possible, isn't it, that Lola's SO didn't know [in the beginning of the Relationship] exactly where on his "journey" he might be, months or years down the road? How could you possibly TELL someone - your SO or anyone for that matter - where you might end up possibly years down the road if there is NO MAP? MAYBE, as happens with most of the "regualrs" here, he gradually became "braver and braver" and one day ventured outside and found it addictive? As so many here do?

It IS a gradual process is it not?

Many "heavy" people look in the mirror and don't see a heavy person because they have put the weight on so gradually, perhaps over a period of years?

[ReineD]

From a male point of view, I don't believe that crossdressing automatically means a person has "gender issues". Certainly some of us do. For others, we may not understand why, but it's not that we are uncomfortable with our gender.

This is very true, however there is no way that a wife can KNOW this if her husband dresses behind her back because he doesn't want to talk about anything with her.

[Di]

MOST of the "CDers" who post here are on an ever evolving, ever changing journey? And don't really know where they will end up down the road?

Have all the GGs who post here seen that with their own partners? That the current "place" on their SO's journey is NOT the same place as when you first met them?

It just seems to me that the "journey" for most here is incremental isn't it? So many here seem "surprised" [my interpretation anyway] at just how far they have come. It IS possible, isn't it, that Lola's SO didn't know [in the beginning of the Relationship] exactly where on his "journey" he might be, months or years down the road? How could you possibly TELL someone - your SO or anyone for that matter - where you might end up possibly years down the road if there is NO MAP? MAYBE, as happens with most of the "regualrs" here, he gradually became "braver and braver" and one day ventured outside and found it addictive? As so many here do?

It IS a gradual process is it not?

YES it is...totally agree
.BUT someone that knows NOTHING about being a cd/tg would not know this. FFS they are in a relationship.....when things changed....why did the husband not try to make her understand. THATS the betrayal....wearing undies during sex ect does not equal going out dressed ...she still would not have know if she did not come home sick. And since she at first did not even know it was hubby....they must have done this many times pretending to be at work.

There is another thread in LO right now saying my GG has changed... was excepting....and when he meantioned going out the gg got upset ( another one telling the partner its only a sex thing)
We are just trying to say...for petes sake when things change...keep them on the same page....bring them here to UNDERSTAND....if you cannot explain it...it is your loved one is it not?

Very glad you are still with us Lola:hugs:Your still being here gives me hope you will get through this. I would say to hubby...truth from here on out. And know when he told you it was just a sexual thing...it prob was....and when this progressed...he was to scared to tell you. ( not excusing...it just seems what many do...mostly because they are confused as well.)
But talk...thats the only way really.:hugs:

[linda allen]

This is very true, however there is no way that a wife can KNOW this if her husband dresses behind her back because he doesn't want to talk about anything with her.

It's probably not that he doesn't want to talk about dressing with her, it's that he is afraid or embarrassed to talk about it with her. He may not understand himself why he wants to dress as a female. He may not know how far he wants to take his dressing. That makes it very difficult to explain because he will not know the answers to her questions.

As we read threads from members, we find that some wives have accepted their husband's crossdressing with open arms and even join in by shopping with or for them, going out in public with them, etc.

Some have accepted it on the condition that they don't see it.

Some have ended the marriage, taken the house, the car, the children, and the income.

To me it's understandable why there's a fear of telling. It took me a very long time to "tell" and I haven't told all yet.

[ReineD]

It's probably not that he doesn't want to talk about dressing with her, it's that he is afraid or embarrassed to talk about it with her.

We've had many threads about all the reasons CDers don't tell their wives. It's not easy for them either. But one of the tangents in this thread was whether or not the OP was overreacting when she accidentally discovered her husband fully dressed and ready to go out while she thought he was at work, and also that she had no idea that he wanted to dress outside of bedroom kink.

I was addressing your comment about CDers not having any gender issues. If he doesn't discuss it with his wife for whatever reason, there is no way that she can learn anything about this. People in general have two common misconceptions about crossdressers who fully present as women: (1) they are gay, and (2) they want to be women.

[LaurenB]

Sigh. I avoided reading this thread until now. Now I know why. I should be working but I'm not. My wife's away and I'm reading this and she doesn't know what I'm doing. I'm not CD'd. I did that yesterday. I'm too tired today and this thread makes me yet more tired. I can put myself right into this situation and identify with virtually every poster including and especially Lola. How would I feel if it were me or how would my wife feel? Truly makes me want to stop Cding but I know myself much better than that. I can only say that I hope it doesn't poison a good relationship. I only hope that someday gender binary thinking becomes a thing of the past through education, so that future CD'rs aren't called CD'rs or thought of as any different than anyone else. Good luck Lola and don't forget your number one probably loves you very much.

[cassandra54]

My experience is quite similar. I've dressed in the past, pretty much for what you would call fetish reasons. I started dressing with my current SO in an attempt to try to keep our sex life going. She went along reluctantly, and like so many people do in relationships, she did not communicate her feelings about this matter. Basically, I enjoyed it, she did not. But it did not end there.

I discovered that I really enjoyed dressing up out of the bedroom as well. At first it was just a few clothes, and no wigs, breast forms or makeup. Perhaps it was my fault as well that I did not listen to the fact that she was not into this or even enjoyed it, but I did it for a while and stopped.

And then I started again. I found that I really enjoyed dressing up and bought a wig. And then I tried makeup. And then I bought breast forms. And more clothes. And so it went.

I joined this forum because we were discussing where we could go together in the area we live while I was dressed. I learned I was not alone and in fact my dressing, at least for me and lots of others was perfectly normal.

After all was said and done, I found out she was not just a little uncomfortable with it, not just "taking some time getting used to it", but she thought it was creepy. I had a little bit of difficulty with this at first, but I did communicate my feelings about this.

I told her simply that this was something that happened for me and there was no turning back. I was not going to stop dressing and I could understand her feelings. Our intimacy will never return to this relationship, but it has nothing to do with me dressing up. She is accepting of my dressing up and a lot of times we hang out like two female room mates.

The reality was that dressing up in the bedroom brought out my desire to dress. My desire to dress was not part of my bedroom routine, but it took a while in life to realize this.

Perhaps this is the same in your situation.

[Lola14U]

My experience is quite similar. I've dressed in the past, pretty much for what you would call fetish reasons. I started dressing with my current SO in an attempt to try to keep our sex life going. She went along reluctantly, and like so many people do in relationships, she did not communicate her feelings about this matter. Basically, I enjoyed it, she did not. But it did not end there.

I discovered that I really enjoyed dressing up out of the bedroom as well. At first it was just a few clothes, and no wigs, breast forms or makeup. Perhaps it was my fault as well that I did not listen to the fact that she was not into this or even enjoyed it, but I did it for a while and stopped.


And then I started again. I found that I really enjoyed dressing up and bought a wig. And then I tried makeup. And then I bought breast forms. And more clothes. And so it went.

I joined this forum because we were discussing where we could go together in the area we live while I was dressed. I learned I was not alone and in fact my dressing, at least for me and lots of others was perfectly normal.

After all was said and done, I found out she was not just a little uncomfortable with it, not just "taking some time getting used to it", but she thought it was creepy. I had a little bit of difficulty with this at first, but I did communicate my feelings about this.

I told her simply that this was something that happened for me and there was no turning back. I was not going to stop dressing and I could understand her feelings. Our intimacy will never return to this relationship, but it has nothing to do with me dressing up. She is accepting of my dressing up and a lot of times we hang out like two female room mates.

The reality was that dressing up in the bedroom brought out my desire to dress. My desire to dress was not part of my bedroom routine, but it took a while in life to realize this.

Perhaps this is the same in your situation.

Thank you for sharing your story. This provides me more insight of things to consider as we continue to discuss our situation. I am not sure how it will all turn out. All I can do is my best to understand. Again, thank you for sharing your story.


Sigh. I avoided reading this thread until now. Now I know why. I should be working but I'm not. My wife's away and I'm reading this and she doesn't know what I'm doing. I'm not CD'd. I did that yesterday. I'm too tired today and this thread makes me yet more tired. I can put myself right into this situation and identify with virtually every poster including and especially Lola. How would I feel if it were me or how would my wife feel? Truly makes me want to stop Cding but I know myself much better than that. I can only say that I hope it doesn't poison a good relationship. I only hope that someday gender binary thinking becomes a thing of the past through education, so that future CD'rs aren't called CD'rs or thought of as any different than anyone else. Good luck Lola and don't forget your number one probably loves you very much.

So why havent you told your wife? Mine said he was afraid I would freak out. So far, I think I have handled it as best as I can... maybe I am still in shock? Best of luck to you!


YES it is...totally agree
.BUT someone that knows NOTHING about being a cd/tg would not know this. FFS they are in a relationship.....when things changed....why did the husband not try to make her understand. THATS the betrayal....wearing undies during sex ect does not equal going out dressed ...she still would not have know if she did not come home sick. And since she at first did not even know it was hubby....they must have done this many times pretending to be at work.

There is another thread in LO right now saying my GG has changed... was excepting....and when he meantioned going out the gg got upset ( another one telling the partner its only a sex thing)
We are just trying to say...for petes sake when things change...keep them on the same page....bring them here to UNDERSTAND....if you cannot explain it...it is your loved one is it not?

Very glad you are still with us Lola:hugs:Your still being here gives me hope you will get through this. I would say to hubby...truth from here on out. And know when he told you it was just a sexual thing...it prob was....and when this progressed...he was to scared to tell you. ( not excusing...it just seems what many do...mostly because they are confused as well.)
But talk...thats the only way really.:hugs:

I have learned so much in such a short time on this thread- thank you for sharing your comments. In my conversations with spouse I have gotten the feeling he isnt sure where this is going. Thank you again!


I've mentioned it but you may have missed it, so I'll say it again.

Putting on panties or nylons or whatever to have fun in the bedroom IS NOT CDING in the sense that we understand it to be in this forum, to a GG like Lola. To her it's just a kinky thing, like someone who has a foot fetish, or a thing for latex, or a thing for bondage. Or whips. Or whatever other kinky things that people do in bedrooms.

Why is this so difficult for CDers to understand? LOTS OF MEN are kinky in the bedroom with all sorts of things, even panties, without being CDers!

She really had no clue and to come home to (1) see her husband dressed head to toe ready to go out (presumably with forms, wig, and makeup), and (2) that he should have knowingly done this behind her back when she thought he was at work, is purposely deceitful. And he must have been doing it for quite some time if she didn't recognize him.

And good lord, we've just had several threads about CDers who insist they never even want to go out! So it seems that Lola's husband did not go from A to merely exploring B with Lola, he went way beyond this. We've had wives whose husbands only dress at home and it's a shock for many of them to even be told their husbands want to put on a wig or shave their legs, let alone getting breast forms and putting on makeup!

Thank you for clarifying... I now realize our bedroom play was not CDing.. which left many readers confused as to my shock. So much for me to understand...

[linda allen]

..... Our intimacy will never return to this relationship, but it has nothing to do with me dressing up. She is accepting of my dressing up and a lot of times we hang out like two female room mates. .....

That's sad. Not the dressing, but the loss of intimacy. Life is to short to go without love and you don't get to come back and try again in a next life.

For both of you, if the love is not there, it's time to seperate and find true love.

[allyssa]

I think that without a doubt, you need to talk about it openly ASAP. Boundaries are really important to set in any relationship, and just because your SO is a CD doesn't mean it's okay to violate your trust. Be as open as possible in the conversation...if going out w/ other CDs is really important to your SO, then without a doubt, that needs to come with whatever boundaries or limits the two of you decide. If it's not something you can live with, and your SO is adamant about make that part of his/her life, then it's something the two of you need to evaluate in terms of the long-term possibilities of your relationship. Good luck!

[Tracii G]

Lola I can see where you are coming from he should have told you the extent of his CDing.
Trust is everything to me too but sometimes what we see isn't always what we think it is.
Have a heart to heart talk with him is the best thing you can do, tell him its OK to unload everything and get it all out there.
I have no idea what his intent was and yes I would have concerns just like you.It may be nothing in the end but no way to know unless he is willing to be honest.
Honesty and openness from both of you is what it will take.
I do wish the best for both of you I really do, this has to be tough.
Get him to join here and check out the FAB section for help as well.
Oh yeah welcome. :)

[Raquel June]

I think something as contentious as going out fully dressed en femme, when the wife is safely at work is implied betrayal. To say that there was no agreement is IMO splitting hairs. There are lots of things in life and marriage that arent specifically gone over with a fine tooth comb, its just obvious what is expected.

For example - when you get married, its fairly well implied that you are not going to sleep around. You dont specifically agree not to do so. ...

OMG! Now you're equating dressing in a certain way with cheating on your spouse? Wow. Why don't you tell us what you really think about people with gender issues?

Going out of the house without your spouse is not a betrayal. And going out in a skirt is not a betrayal, either, in itself.

If this person had actually promised not to, that would be different. If the info was presented that this person was dressed like a prostitute then that would also change things.

We could make guesses about what this person's destination and intentions were, but without any actual information you are making an incredibly offensive assumption.

Regardless, this whole thread is suspicious. "Lola14U" sounds more like a stereotypical name for a CD, not a wife looking for support. And it looks more like the OP -- even if she is who she says she is -- just wanted to vent. Because she was never forthright with the information that would be required for people to give her any real advice.



Let me ask those of you who feel that "betrayed" is too strong a word.

Aside from the fact that Lola and her husband were kinky in the bedroom, do you feel that a GG in general is overreacting if she feels a sense of betrayal ...

She already knew he had women's clothes. She had seen him wear them. Where's the big shocker? What's the betrayal?

Is everybody here buying into the premise that stepping outside in the wrong clothes is morally equitable to joining a swingers' club?

I can absolutely understand the initial reaction from the OP, but I'm surprised by those here who are supporting that reaction instead of explaining that it could've been an innocent act -- even if it is something he is ashamed of and tried to hide.


Let's take a step back for a second and say that a guy joined an obesity support group. He joins and makes the following post:


My wife's cholesterol is well over 200. She has to take heart medication and prescription acid reflux meds. She has sleep apnea and needs a CPAP mask. The other day I came home from work and she obviously didn't expect me. She had her purse in one hand and a buffet coupon in the other.

To say the least I was shocked. We had gone to buffets in the past but always together. She told me she was on a diet.

I feel totally betrayed. What would you do?

Obviously people would tell him to be supportive or go to hell, not tell him he has a right to crucify her for a legitimate problem that she feels bad about already. And I shouldn't even be comparing crossdressing to lifestyle choices that drastically shorten your lifespan.



My point is that it sucks when someone's hiding something from you. But it also sucks being that person who's doing the hiding and hates him/herself. So many of us have been on the side where we're ashamed of who we are and just f-ing want to be obliterated from existance and be able to die without causing any pain to the people we love.

I'm not saying this guy is innocent, and maybe he doesn't have any of the feelings I'm talking about. Maybe he's a horrible person who was going to go cheat on his wife. But we don't know that.

And I don't blame the OP for feeling betrayed initially! Even though I think the OP is just a troll since she flat out ignores the question of what her husband was wearing and where he was going.


But that's not even important. The things people are saying here are ... I just don't know what to say.

[ReineD]

She already knew he had women's clothes. She had seen him wear them. Where's the big shocker? What's the betrayal?

Is everybody here buying into the premise that stepping outside in the wrong clothes is morally equitable to joining a swingers' club?

I can absolutely understand the initial reaction from the OP, but I'm surprised by those here who are supporting that reaction instead of explaining that it could've been an innocent act -- even if it is something he is ashamed of and tried to hide.

It's a lot more than just the clothes. I don't know if you've read my multiple attempts to explain this, but please read my post #105 and the other GG's posts who are trying to explain it. There is a difference between a guy putting on heels, nylons, or panties for kink in the bedroom (non-CDers do this too) and presenting fully as a woman with forms, wig, makeup, and complete outfits, ready to go out as a woman, and choosing a time to do so that is purposely intended to keep the wife from finding out.

An unknowing GG who finds her husband this way had no prior knowledge there are potential gender issues even if he has a thing for shoes or nylons ... she just thought he was a regular guy being kinky in bed. She does feel betrayed because her husband lied about the extent of his gender expression. Plus, she's new at this. She has no idea what the difference is between a CDer who presents fully as a woman and a TS. Probably most people who talk to my SO and I when we go out together think that she is a TS as well. It will take time for Lola to learn about all of this.

So yeah ... Lola feels lied to big time. And any lie is a betrayal, especially if her husband potentially is not the gender that she thought he was, or at least this is the way she takes it *because he hadn't been forthcoming with any information before she found him dressed like this at a time when she wasn't supposed to be around*.

Besides, why are we focusing more on the word she chose to describe her feelings and we are invalidating them, rather than give her support and sound advice as to how she might proceed with her husband?

... sadly, I think all of this is moot. Lola hasn't been back and I'm afraid there were too many people (one or two might be forgivable, but this isn't the case in this thread) who invalidated her feelings of shock and confusion. :sad:

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO

I think something as contentious as going out fully dressed en femme, when the wife is safely at work is implied betrayal. To say that there was no agreement is IMO splitting hairs. There are lots of things in life and marriage that arent specifically gone over with a fine tooth comb, its just obvious what is expected.

For example - when you get married, its fairly well implied that you are not going to sleep around. You dont specifically agree not to do so. ...



OMG! Now you're equating dressing in a certain way with cheating on your spouse? Wow. Why don't you tell us what you really think about people with gender issues?

Going out of the house without your spouse is not a betrayal. And going out in a skirt is not a betrayal, either, in itself.

If this person had actually promised not to, that would be different. If the info was presented that this person was dressed like a prostitute then that would also change things.

We could make guesses about what this person's destination and intentions were, but without any actual information you are making an incredibly offensive assumption.

Regardless, this whole thread is suspicious. "Lola14U" sounds more like a stereotypical name for a CD, not a wife looking for support. And it looks more like the OP -- even if she is who she says she is -- just wanted to vent. Because she was never forthright with the information that would be required for people to give her any real advice.


In all honestly, I dont think its worth bothering to reply to you - you clearly have no intention of seeing this from another person's viewpoint - i.e. the OP but please dont insinuate about my feelings on people who have gender issues, I have no problem with people's gender, be it expressed, real or percieved gender , what I have a problem with is lies, deceit and subterfuge.

And just because the OP hasnt posted again, it doesnt mean she hasnt come back to read the posts - I dont post every day but I do read plenty of posts on a daily basis.

This is just another example of people shooting a new GG down in flames when she is looking for some kind of help on a help forum - sucks

[DaphneGrey]

I agree with silent partner and RenieD. She feels betrayed because she was betrayed. Not telling the whole truth is still lying. If you are going to play dont ask dont tell you have to spell it out in the beginning.

Playing dress up as a kink is not the same thing as presenting female in the real world.

Cant we just accept the Op for what she says? Rather than try to play forum detective? What ever the details I see a woman who is hurt and confused who came here looking for support. How about a little compassion?

Lola thank you for joining the forum and I hope you find some snswers and support here. I know this is all very hard to understand. And when and if you feel comfortable, please feel free to ask me any questions you might have. I promise to be honest and unbiased. Best of luck to both of you.

[Kate T]

.. she just thought he was a regular guy being kinky in bed...
Above quote first sort of made me chuckle, then made me think. Are we happy as a society that we are willing to accept far more variation from normal in sexual behavior than we are in social behavior? Why? Is it because to an extent, sexual behaviour is "behind closed doors" and we can happily go on with our lives in denial about it? Or is it because our society is so sexualised that we are "desensitized" to the shock of variance that we see with non conventional social behaviors such as cross dressing?

Didn't mean to pick on you Reine. Sorry. And I think I've gone a bit off topic. Sorry again.

Also now struggling to define myself, "regular guy" in the bedroom but socially "kinky"? :)

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Adina I can see where you're coming from on this but I think the difference is that "kinky in the bedroom" is just playing, its not normally a life style. I believe that most people who indulge in bedroom play do it because it adds a little spice to their lovelife but if one party wasnt ok with it, it wouldnt be something that would be an absolute necessity for the other party. If a guy is dressing up in the bedroom just for play, he doesnt actually consider himself or feel he is dual gender. A bit like if I decide to dress up in a nurses outfit for a bit of sexy fun, I dont actually believe I am a nurse and if I dont do it, its not going to make me depressed, or feel incomplete.

CD'ing is obviously a bit of a different potato - from my limited understanding, a CD'er needs the dressing, its part of who they are - and if they try to stop or are forced to stop, it can have an impact on their wellbeing

[EllieOPKS]

So I have been sitting in an airport waiting on a connection reading my favorite forum. There are a lot of opinions and view points with people trying to give Lola advice, so I will do the same.

Lola - Seek professional help. You get to see the views and opinions of this community which can be of interest but with something as serious as your relationship and marriage, go talk to the pros.
Ellie

[Raquel June]

There is a difference between a guy putting on heels, nylons, or panties for kink in the bedroom (non-CDers do this too) and presenting fully as a woman with forms, wig, makeup, and complete outfits, ready to go out as a woman, and choosing a time to do so that is purposely intended to keep the wife from finding out.

I understand that. And I understand someone being shocked by catching their husband doing that. What I don't understand is equating it to cheating.

Everybody here is looking at things from a different perspective because the OP refused to give the actual details of what happened. So we're just speculating. But it's unfair to assume the husband was actually going out to do something wrong. And if we can't assume he was doing something wrong, it's very unfair to be so critical of him.

What if they lived in the middle of nowhere? What if he just went outside and drove around for a bit and came back? Is that a betrayal? I don't think so.

Is it that naive of me to say there is a possibility of this being innocent? Maybe it is, but the ramifications of that is pretty damning for crossdressers as a whole, so I'd prefer to keep my head in the clouds.



In all honestly, I dont think its worth bothering to reply to you - you clearly have no intention of seeing this from another person's viewpoint - i.e. the OP but please dont insinuate about my feelings on people who have gender issues, I have no problem with people's gender, be it expressed, real or percieved gender , what I have a problem with is lies, deceit and subterfuge.

And just because the OP hasnt posted again, it doesnt mean she hasnt come back to read the posts - I dont post every day but I do read plenty of posts on a daily basis.

This is just another example of people shooting a new GG down in flames when she is looking for some kind of help on a help forum - sucks

As I've said many times, I can see it from the wife's viewpoint. I can see how she could be hurt. What I'm offended by is that 90% of the people here can't even entertain the possibility of the husband being anything less than a horrible person.



Cant we just accept the Op for what she says? Rather than try to play forum detective?

Yes. Let's accept what the OP said. And let's not play detective. Let's look at the facts. The OP said she had not actually made any rules about how he could dress outside the house, and the OP did not say what her husband was going out to do.


What ever the details I see a woman who is hurt and confused who came here looking for support. How about a little compassion?

OK, I'll be compassionate. You're all right. People who wear the wrong clothes outside of the house are all gross perverts and liars.

[ReineD]

I understand that. And I understand someone being shocked by catching their husband doing that. What I don't understand is equating it to cheating.



OK, I'll be compassionate. You're all right. People who wear the wrong clothes outside of the house are all gross perverts and liars.

The OP: Lola didn't say anything about "cheating" in her OP. She just said she felt betrayed. I feel betrayed when someone lies to me in a substantial way even if there is no cheating involved.

Post #11: she didn't even mention cheating, she tried to make an analogy and she compared her feelings to how she would have reacted to a different type of lie (engaging in a money scheme) and even then she didn't chastise her husband. She said she was here to understand.

Post #38: she did mention cheating simply because at first she didn't recognize her husband while dressed and she thought the woman that she saw was a stranger that the husband was having an affair with ... until she realized it was her husband. She still did not chastise him but she instead spoke of her fears and her struggles as to how they might best navigate through this given the circumstances.

Post #78: she confirms that she felt betrayed because she felt lied to (not cheated on). She had no idea that her husband was a CDer and again, newbies like Lola have no clue about the difference between CD & TS, or whether or not all CDs are gay ... all the usual questions that wives ask when they first find out. Still, as confused as she was she still did not blame her husband and she repeated that she was here to understand.

----------------------

I'm not going to read all the other members' posts to see how many people called her husband a pervert. I don't think he is. But, the bulk of my posts in this thread was in defense of Lola, whom I perceived was chastised horribly because she dared to feel betrayed by her husband's lies. And lie he did. There are umpteen reasons why he lied, some of them valid, some of them not. But the fact remains that he purposely went behind her back big time (by not disclosing gender issues) and she felt betrayed by this, not because he was going out to drive around the block or whatever.

I think that Lola was sorely treated by the membership, especially since she is new and knows very little about this. SHE is the one who came here for help in understanding the CDing, not her husband. Had the members not rammed it down her throat that she had no right to her feelings, she might have stuck around and she might even have asked her husband to join the forum as well.

I should have moved her thread to the Loved Ones section. It might have made a difference. I left it here because I took it that she wanted to ask her questions to the CDers. :sad: