Outed at Work?? :worried:

[Sophia Claire]

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGIAMFREAKINGOUT!!!

I think I might have outed myself at work, which is bad since I can be fired for this. I went out en femme last night and I accidentally grabbed the waterproof mascara and put that on before realizing that I had to be at work at five this morning. I washed all my makeup off and scrubbed my face clean (including vigorously scrubbing my eyelashes) and I thought I was good to go.

I get into work this morning and my boss looks at me and says “dude, are you wearing eyeliner?”
I responded audibly “No.” which was true.
On the inside, I responded thusly: “AAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!”
My boss looks at me and says “it looks like you’re wearing eyeliner. Why are your eyes so dark?”

Decision point: come clean and take my chances or lie my ass off and live to fight another day.
Analysis: I have no money saved and no exit strategy, so I can’t afford to get fired right now.
Final answer: bring on the bulls***!

“What do you want from me, I’m really tired. I got all of two hours of sleep and I have bags.”
“Okay, it really looks like you have eyeliner on.”
“Do I look like the kind of dude who wears eyeliner? "

Now, It’s clear by the look on his face that he doesn’t believe the BS I fed him and he already thinks I’m wearing makeup. He knows I’m lying to him and he thinks he knows what I’m lying about. I have to fess up to lying, but with another equally innocent story that’s just crazy enough to be true. Fortunately, I have just the story.

I excuse myself and go to the restroom to try to scrub the junk off. No such luck. This stuff is bulletproof! If it weren’t a sturdy bag of horsecrap and a hair’s breadth from costing me my job, I’d be very impressed with the stuff. I go back to my workstation, which is located right next to my boss’, and I ask to speak to him.

“Look, I haven’t been entirely forthcoming with you about this. Back in 2008 when I was living in San Diego, I went to this one really nice salon to get my hair cut. My stylist recommended that I dye my eyelashes to bring out the color of my eyes [this part is entirely, 100% true]. I did it and it worked wonders [also true]. I got it done last night and I forgot that the dye sometimes runs and can stain your eyelids for a couple of days after the treatment [less-than-honest].”
“Oh! Really? They do that? Hahahaha! I thought you were running around wearing makeup! Oh, God, you can’t make that s*** up!”
“no kidding…”

Anyway, everyone at work made fun of me for wearing makeup and having smoky eyes the rest of the day (it’s their way, and it was all good-natured). In fact, one of my coworkers even said “I don’t care, so long as you’re not crossdressing… I mean, even then…”
“uh huh.”

Decision point: test the waters with everyone’s tolerance and loyalty, or take it like an asshat for the rest of the day.
Analysis: if I play it right, I can do this in such a way that people just think I’m fed up with their nonsense.
Final answer: let’s do it!

I furrowed my brow in faux frustration and growled “Yeah, and what if I was?”
[silence from all three of my coworkers, boss is not present at this time]
The lone GG of the group speaks up and says “Then you should just say so!”
“Even if I were, I couldn’t unless I wanted to get kicked out. You can still get sent home for that.”
The black dude says “Man, I wouldn’t care…”
The older white dude says “well… Don’t wear a wig to the office.”

And nobody talked about it any further through the day. The GG knows for sure, I’m pretty sure the older white guy has a good idea, the black guy probably knows, but the real test will be my next shift. I’ll know if they know tomorrow.

[I]I really can’t afford to get fired right now…
:nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting:

[Sara Jessica]

You tell a good story, it was a really nice read. I'm sorry though that it's at your own expense. Hope it turns out alright.

But I have to ask, how the heck would you get fired just for admitting you are a crossdresser?

[Sophia Claire]

Thank you! When I have a story worth telling, I try to tell it well. ;)

To answer your question, the military views crossdressing as indicative of gender identity disorder, which is medically disqualifying.

[Sara Jessica]

That was my guess. Thanks for clarifying. That said, good luck...and some prayers wouldn't hurt either.

[RiverdanceGirl]

Just act like it never happened. They will probably have forgotten anyway so no point in reminding them. It's amazing how short people's memories are - they're all wrapped up in their own issues.

[LeannL]

Sophia,
So are you in the military or are you a civilian employee? Certain parts of the country are currently under specific Federal Courts of Appeal that have ruled that discrimination against transgendered people is sex discrimination covered by Title VII (if I remember the number correctly). This would apply to civilian employees for sure as the latest ruling was specifically about government employees.

My suggestion is to just let it sit. Don't bring it up. If you don't make a big deal out of it, they probably won't. Also, while I haven't used the waterproof mascara, I would suspect that the oil based eye makeup removers would have had a chance. Next time try before you commit when it could make a difference!

Leann

[Cynthia Anne]

Great story! I hope you survive to fight another day! Sometimes sheeeeeeeeeeeeit happens! Hugs!

[Debglam]

Shipmate (I'm guessing?)

Admit NOTHING!!!! Let me say that again, admit NOTHING, especially CD'ing. You may catch some crap for wearing mascara but that doesn't mean or prove anything. Believe me, some of the crazy crap my sailors used to do, a little eye makeup isn't anything to worry about.

Oh yeah, keep a small package of makeup wipes and some liquid eye makeup remover and Q-Tips in your car.

Debby

[Sophia Claire]

Sophia,
So are you in the military or are you a civilian employee? Certain parts of the country are currently under specific Federal Courts of Appeal that have ruled that discrimination against transgendered people is sex discrimination covered by Title VII (if I remember the number correctly). This would apply to civilian employees for sure as the latest ruling was specifically about government employees.

My suggestion is to just let it sit. Don't bring it up. If you don't make a big deal out of it, they probably won't. Also, while I haven't used the waterproof mascara, I would suspect that the oil based eye makeup removers would have had a chance. Next time try before you commit when it could make a difference!

Leann

I'm enlisted, so that ruling doesn't apply to me, unfortunately. Good looking out, though. I'm sure a time will come when CD/TGs will be welcome to serve as openly as their LGB counterparts, but until then, we've gotta be careful. I certainly didn't mean to grab the waterproof! I never wear the stuff! Honest! I was in a hurry, and I just grabbed the first bottle of mascara that I saw. Lesson learned: the price of haste can be terrible indeed.

[Sophia Claire]

Shipmate (I'm guessing?)

Admit NOTHING!!!! Let me say that again, admit NOTHING, especially CD'ing. You may catch some crap for wearing mascara but that doesn't mean or prove anything. Believe me, some of the crazy crap my sailors used to do, a little eye makeup isn't anything to worry about.

Oh yeah, keep a small package of makeup wipes and some liquid eye makeup remover and Q-Tips in your car.

Debby

Shipmate, aye. Well, I'm with Uncle Sam's Casual Guys these days, but I did ten with the big boys before that. No, I admit nothing. Absolutely nothing. The best they have on me is circumstantial and I have made sure that I have a firm alibi for all of that, too. Until today, they have exactly what I allowed them to have. Today was the first slip I've made in nearly 15 years. Thanks!

[Jamie001]

The discussion that your boss had with you was certainly uncalled for and is sexual harassment. If you get fired, you are most likely protected by anti-discrimination laws.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I accidentally grabbed the waterproof mascara and put that on before realizing that I had to be at work at five this morning. I washed all my makeup off and scrubbed my face clean (including vigorously scrubbing my eyelashes) and I thought I was good to go.

Waterproof mascara requires special treatment. Baby oil/wipes in a pinch or the eyemakeup remover you can get at any drugstore. L'Oreal makes a nice one, it is blue colored can't miss it.



Shipmate, aye. Well, I'm with Uncle Sam's Casual Guys these days, but I did ten with the big boys before that.

Isn't Coast Guard under DHS jurisdiction and thusly the standard DoD military rules don't apply? Though admittedly in time of war they transfer authority to the DoN. But technically right now, you're DHS, a civvy. (yes I know the CG is pseudo-military but they were once Department of Transportation!)

Veronica

[Sophia Claire]

The discussion that your boss had with you was certainly uncalled for and is sexual harassment. If you get fired, you are most likely protected by anti-discrimination laws.

Surely true, however the facts of the case and the relevant background information begs questions about my lifestyle that I don't wish to be made public (ie accessible to my parents, who would be curious) for any reason ever. Getting shuffled off home for being a crossdresser is a relatively quiet affair. Dragging the entire Coast Guard through a painful litigation process that will ruin what's then left of my life is certainly not worth any amount of money that they could offer me. Besides, the coast guard hasn't been THAT good to me, anyway. If I had a couple thousand bucks squirreled away somewhere, I'd probably go into work en femme and make a big scene until they sent me home.

[Debglam]

Isn't Coast Guard under DHS jurisdiction and thusly the standard DoD military rules don't apply? Though admittedly in time of war they transfer authority to the DoN. But technically right now, you're DHS, a civvy. (yes I know the CG is pseudo-military but they were once Department of Transportation!)

Veronica

That's a good point VM but that is mostly for administrative purposes. The USCG IS subject to the same body of law, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), that the rest of the services are. Military "justice" is about discipline and this is made very clear. A lot of the legal protections that civilians get just don't apply.

Trans of any shade is still actionable and a cause for discharge as the OP stated. The key is the military has to PROVE it! Even if they were to catch you fully dressed (assuming you weren't on duty ala Corporal Klinger) you never would want to say "trans" or "CD" or whatever. Any lame excuse still leaves them with having to prove it.

Deb

[Sophia Claire]

OOH! I'll have to go look for it!


Isn't Coast Guard under DHS jurisdiction and thusly the standard DoD military rules don't apply? Though admittedly in time of war they transfer authority to the DoN. But technically right now, you're DHS, a civvy. (yes I know the CG is pseudo-military but they were once Department of Transportation!)

Veronica

I am most certainly not a civvy! I went to boot camp. I wear a uniform. I've taken more fire on CG missions than all of my navy deployments combined. I'm just not DoD. I'm subject to the UCMJ, which is why sex discrimination and hate crime rulings for transgenders don't apply to me. In fact, I recently was subject to non-judicial punishment under articles 92 and 87 of the UCMJ. While it is true that the coast guard falls under DHS authority, we are still uniformed members of the armed services. We're not pseudo-military, our Commandant is still a sitting member of the joint chiefs of staff and our commander in chief is still the president. I took the exact same oath of enlistment as a whole bunch of airmen, marines, sailors and soldiers. We're just as military as everyone else. We also have broad law enforcement authority. It's a tricky line to dance, but we're very good at it.

[Chloe' Buffington]

First let me say, Thank you for your service. I had a similar incedent in 1980 while serving in the Marine Corps. A 1st Lt. asked if I was wearing eye makeup, I said sorry sir I thought I cleaned it all off after the rock concert last night, Kiss was playing near the base. He bought it but sent me back to the barracks to "do a better job of cleaning it off". Good Luck with your situation, I'm pullin for ya.
Chloe'

[VeronicaMoonlit]

That's a good point VM but that is mostly for administrative purposes. The USCG IS subject to the same body of law, the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), that the rest of the services are.

Thanks for the info, Deb.


I'm subject to the UCMJ, .....

And likewise, Sophia. No offense was intended.

Veronica

[Sophia Claire]

And likewise, Sophia. No offense was intended.

Veronica

Oh, none taken. That whole DHS/DOD thing can be confusing.

[TxCassie]

I don't know anything about the military Sophia but it seems you skirted the boundaries as far as you can take it. I'd take the advice given here about keeping some cleaning wipes in your car unless, you fear your car can be search without your consent. If so,you must just have a hard rule to keep Sophia away from work. As you said, you cannot afford to be fired now, so it Sophia must take a step back to allow the Coastie in you thrive at work. Discipline,discipline, and discipline honey.

Good Luck Sophie.

[Tracii G]

Very sticky situation you are in so maybe just let it blow over.
The CO is the only one you need to worry about really anyone else I wouldn't worry too much. The dying eye lash thing sounds like a plausible story.
Always CYA and never give them more info than they need.
I got my ass in trouble a few times in boot camp but not over eyeliner lol.
Good luck.

[Delila]

I am not saying this is the situation but as CDers in my experience we tend to assume that people are reading more into us than is true. It may be that some of your coworkers read you but in all reality I think that we tend to assume that people see and think more than they do. From what I have observed in the world people rarely pay attention to anything that does not affect them directly. There have been plenty of times that I have gone to work with what to me seem to be totally glittery lips and not one person has said a word or even looked at me differently. Again while I am not trying to say this is absolutely the case do you think that there might be a possibility that you are just overthinking the situation and in all reality occam's razor is the answer that the simplest answer is usually the correct one and the simplest answer is that while you boss may have noticed something the rest of your coworkers may have just been being friendly and not actually noticed anything? I could be completely off base of course

[Renee W]

Complete removal of eye makeup is the primary reason that when I buy liner or mascara, I look for washable types. These still last a good amount of time as long as you're not sweating or rubbing your eyes a lot. Even then, I only go full bore on the eye makeup on nights before a day off from work.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sophia, Please do keep us advised.

[Sheren Kelly]

Sophia,
I think that this will be a non-event so long as you keep your femme life seperate from work. My experience is that so long as you do your job well (and your CO is not a transphobe) this will just fade away. If they try to bust you for eyeliner while off duty, then they will have to bust every goth and heavy metal player as well.

[Cheryl T]

A good reason to use baby oil to remove eye makeup and not soap and water.

[PretzelGirl]

Good luck. I also think that if you are doing your job without issues, it will blow over. There is nothing direct in what is known, so it will probably get dropped.

But my mind went charging at the part where you were deciding what to say. First I was thinking camouflage paint. Yea!!! to night maneuvers. :D Of course that led to the next thought which was "I played football last night and we used that black gunk for glare in our eyes (I don't know the name of it)". The stories we can fabricate....

[EllieOPKS]

My first thought is to burn that industrial strength eye paint, stir the ashes and burn again. My second thought is keep your CDing totally to yourself if you want to keep your job. Just because some of your co-workers are cool with it, don't think for second you won't be standing totally alone in front of your boss if it escalates.

[Jamie001]

It sounds like the boss is a phobe.

[Debs]

This happened to me once, said I had been cleaning the loft out, dam it was dusty up there and kept rubbing my eyes, will take a few days to wash out. Worked a treat

The reason I thought of this is that my father worked down the coal pit, and always look as if he had eye liner due to the dust.

[GaleWarning]

I would have thought that, having accepted that gay people can now openly serve in the US armed forces, a spot of crossdressing would be regarded as a non-issue.

[Sophia Claire]

It sounds like the boss is a phobe.

No, actually. Just a stereotypical Bostonian. Loud obnoxious a-hole.

[Lorileah]

I would have thought that, having accepted that gay people can now openly serve in the US armed forces, a spot of crossdressing would be regarded as a non-issue.

Ha!
Truth is that of course in the military, men and women dress the same (mostly except dress uniforms and I can see the future that women's will be slacks instead of frumpy skirts). And there was a rule about "excessive" make up and hair being pinned up and above the shoulders. You see, here in the USA we don't really care if you can do a job or be an excellent soldier as long as you conform to the rules.

(BTW just because the CIC and congress got rid of DADT doesn't mean the people in charge of you won't make your life a living hell. Women have been in the military for 60 years and they still get hazed and harassed and even worse.)

[Confetti]

If anything should happen it is discrimination...

My friend and I got hit by a car after clubbing the car had a scrape but he used my neem salve to get residue off and back to man attire.People will always judge not the economy to find work easily so play it low key and depending on how you plan to live it won't matter.

[linda allen]

If you have a job that's so insecure that you can be fired for having residue of eye makeup, I suggest finding a more secure job. Sometime in the next few years, you will do something to displease your boss and you will be out the door. Might as well go on your own terms and find a secure job where you don't have to walk on pins and needles 24/7.

Now as far as the makeup, how's this - "Last night my wife/girlfriend and I were drinking and she decided to see what I would look like with makeup on. I won't let her do this again, I promise."

[MsJanessa]

where do you work that you would be fired because you wore makeup one day at work? Many states actually have antidiscrimination laws that would prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender identity--others don't--but rarely would you actually be fired for it anywhere--made fun of--yes, but fired not likely-

whoops--went backand read the entire thread and see you are in the Coast Guard---still wouldn't worry about it, Klinger wore make up and dresses for years and they didn't kick him out----would take an Article 33 hearing to get you kicked out and if the only complaint was that you showed up for work one day with eyeliner (guyliner??), that wouldn't be enough--from a legal standpoint it rates with being out of uniform and although may warrant a fine at a Captain's Mast (Article 15 hearing) no way would it get you discharged--

[TxKimberly]

I agree with those saying to admit nothing. There is no need to do so.
As for your problem, what's done is done, and it is what it is. Nothing for it but to go back to work tomorrow and do your job. The shit either flies or it don't, but worrying about it wont do you any good. So, I trust that you have done what ever was required to get it off your eyes by now? ;)

[RachelPortugal]

What is all the fuss about? Hey my wife likes me to wear eyeliner in males mode because it makes my eyes look good. There is no law against wearing make-up, or is there in the US?

If I was your boss, my primary concern would be safety in the workplace. I don't know what exactly you do in your line of work everyday, but openly admitting that you had come to work after only two hours sleep would give me good reason to send you home from that shift for not being fit to perform your duties efficiently, effectively and above all safely.

Surely that is a more important issue to be discussing here. Fatigue is more likely to hinder your performance than wearing make-up. What a screwed up world this is.

[Ms Mira]

Wow.

You handled that sticky situation pretty well, all things considered.

As long as you stick to your story as adamantly as possible, I'm sure your colleagues will eventually lose interest.

[Sophia Claire]

What is all the fuss about? Hey my wife likes me to wear eyeliner in males mode because it makes my eyes look good. There is no law against wearing make-up, or is there in the US?

If I was your boss, my primary concern would be safety in the workplace. I don't know what exactly you do in your line of work everyday, but openly admitting that you had come to work after only two hours sleep would give me good reason to send you home from that shift for not being fit to perform your duties efficiently, effectively and above all safely.

Surely that is a more important issue to be discussing here. Fatigue is more likely to hinder your performance than wearing make-up. What a screwed up world this is.

There's no law against wearing makeup in the US, but there is a social convention against it in the US military.

And you're right, having had only two hours of sleep is a much greater issue than makeup, but we in the coast guard come pretty tough. I think my record right now is 72 hours of grueling non-stop work. That was a REALLY bad couple of days. By comparison, two hours of sleep is a minor annoyance. But you make a good point about being sent home. The reason I wasn't sent home, in fact, is because we had just transitioned from night shift to day shift, and that first day back is always a "two hours of sleep" day for everyone. So we all had to suck it up. Plus we have a manpower shortage, so you do what you have to do.

And I think the reason it was pointed out was primarily because they were looking for something to laugh about. It's the way things are done in the military. If they don't make fun of you, that means they don't like you. It's backwards.


unless, you fear your car can be search without your consent.

Thanks! It's a bit of a non-issue now, and cleaning wipes in the car would hardly be damning evidence, but the act of taking your vehicle onto a military base implies consent to search. It's posted on a big legal disclaimer sign outside of every gate to every base anywhere. It's kinda 1984-ish, but it does have its advantages.


If you have a job that's so insecure that you can be fired for having residue of eye makeup, I suggest finding a more secure job. Sometime in the next few years, you will do something to displease your boss and you will be out the door. Might as well go on your own terms and find a secure job where you don't have to walk on pins and needles 24/7.

Now as far as the makeup, how's this - "Last night my wife/girlfriend and I were drinking and she decided to see what I would look like with makeup on. I won't let her do this again, I promise."

Very wise. I am currently on the hunt for a better job. I'm kind of stuck between blimp pilot and political analyst for Fox News... Actually, I've applied to the Royal New Zealand Navy (sue me, I love being at sea and New Zealand is pretty awesome). The research I've done has lead me to believe that they wouldn't make a fuss about CDing, but I could be wrong.

And the story would have been very convincing. And it occurred to me. The only monkey wrench in the works is the part where I'm still technically married, so having a girlfriend would constitute a violation of article 134 of the UCMJ: adultery. Oh yes, they're that invasive! To be fair, though, they're paying money for spousal support, not for dudes to go giving the service a bad reputation. And a third strike is game over. Technically, the second strike should have been, but they decided to grant me a reprieve based on the particulars of my situation.

I've got a really complicated work situation right now, but to sum it up, I'm at the bottom of the barrel and the only thing that's left to lose is my job. Which might happen soon anyway, due to separate issues not involving my supposed "behavioral problems" (I gave nearly a decade of exemplary service to the navy, with no more than a warning throughout the entire time, I join the coast guard and suddenly I'm a s***bag? Something doesn't add up there, but that's a different story). So nobody really bothers me because, to quote the late great Heath Ledger "You have NOTHING to threaten me with..." My only concern is keeping this job long enough to pay back my debts, which should happen anyway. And if that doesn't happen, I have a backup plan. Not a good one, mind you, but a plan nonetheless.

[melissakozak]

Well, well, well. This is precisely why I am cutting my naturally wonderful hair. It is gorgeous, getting long, and I have been called 'girl' more than a dozen times in the past month at work. I am kinda tired of the comments about the length of my hair, so to end it, I am cutting it off....boo hoo.

Styling my own hair takes too long anyway.....

I don't run around and call overweight women on their eating problem, but for some reason, they all seem to have no problem calling me on my so-called 'girl' hair. Gender lines cannot be messed with at all. It messes with people's heads in a way they cannot handle.

Just don't put waterproof make-up on next time.....

[Eryn]

...but to sum it up, I'm at the bottom of the barrel and the only thing that's left to lose is my job....

I'm reminded of the story of a US Air Force transport pilot who is annoyed at being delayed on the apron in Thule, Greenland as his airplane is being serviced. He walks up to the airman working under the plane and starts to dress him down for his slowness.

The airman holds up his hand, interrupting the pilot's tirade. He says "Sir, I got no stripes, I'm stationed in Thule, It's below zero and I'm pumping sewage out of your aircraft. What more can you do to punish me?

[larry]

Wishing you all the best..-(born in Revere-raised in Winthrop-schooled in Boston) -Oh then again maybe you do not want to hear from me) !!


No, actually. Just a stereotypical Bostonian. Loud obnoxious a-hole.

[Sophia Claire]

Wishing you all the best..-(born in Revere-raised in Winthrop-schooled in Boston) -Oh then again maybe you do not want to hear from me) !!

Thanks!

I'm not saying everyone from that area is an a-hole! Far from it! There's no such thing as a typical Bostonian. Stereotypical, yes. And he's it. I guess he's from the same neighborhood as Mark Wahlberg (Dorchester?).

[GaleWarning]

Actually, I've applied to the Royal New Zealand Navy (sue me, I love being at sea and New Zealand is pretty awesome). The research I've done has lead me to believe that they wouldn't make a fuss about CDing, but I could be wrong.


Good luck with your application. The Aussies pay way better than our country does and many of our naval officers have apparently defected to the west island! Hence the recruitment drive.

Don't know about CDing ... although if you were a woman you would probably stand a better chance of promotion ... this is a woman's country!

If you do get the job, perhaps we will see each other at the local Returned Services Association (RSA) club?

[Kelli Ca]

being former military i can agree with all the posts that say not to admit to anything, take a dont ask or tell approach, sounds like some may syuspect let em . on a side note it mustve felt pretty good to get a somewhat warm reception from the co workers let us know how it goes and thanks.. sorry i didnt read the rest of the posts sounds like you got it under control. oh yeah thank you for your service and best wishes

[Sophia Claire]

Good luck with your application. The Aussies pay way better than our country does and many of our naval officers have apparently defected to the west island! Hence the recruitment drive.

Don't know about CDing ... although if you were a woman you would probably stand a better chance of promotion ... this is a woman's country!

If you do get the job, perhaps we will see each other at the local Returned Services Association (RSA) club?

Maybe! If I get the job... I really hope I get the job.


being former military i can agree with all the posts that say not to admit to anything, take a dont ask or tell approach, sounds like some may syuspect let em . on a side note it mustve felt pretty good to get a somewhat warm reception from the co workers let us know how it goes and thanks.. sorry i didnt read the rest of the posts sounds like you got it under control. oh yeah thank you for your service and best wishes

it is under control and it is kind of nice to know that some people here are okay with it.

[MarcyRex]

As a former Coastie, I can attest to all your statements. The good, bad and the ugly. In the end, it comes down to surrounding yourself with people you trust. It didn't take long for my coworkers to pierce my facade, and occasionally make allusions to it. Never an issue with most of them, but there are always some who feel otherwise. Painful when they end up in position of authority. I retired when the USCG went thru another personality shift and the climate was looking for reasons to "trim the fat". In other words, if you ain't beneficial to your supervisors career... Regardless, the CG functions because for the most part people joined for a reason not for the money or career. Good luck. Feel free to PM me. I may be able to advise.

[Cindy J Angel]

i am retd navy and yes he can be kick out. baby oil is all i use it is the best. been to mast 2 times got off the first time and 60days the next on pay cut so i know what u are going thriough. U cant buck the sistem. the best thing to do is more be the best u can be and work gets ezzer for u . was at fleet traning comd and we had a gay wereing finger nials and he was kick out so be carefull just remember the more u do for them the less thay mass with u. and get some baby oil it will take off waterproof mac. i were it whin i work out. lv cindy

[Victoria P]

Sophia, you can always say you went to a goth or punk rock gig! Most pundits in that arena are covered with it.I would wear eyeliner back when I was 15- 19 or so at certain gigs.

Otherwise you look lovely,

Hugs VP :)

[Eryn]

Sophia, you can always say you went to a goth or punk rock gig!

Oh, that would be a good one. A case where dressing up as Cinderella = discharge, but dressing up as Dracula = good soldier!

Hey, the Seals and Marines wear makeup too, don't they?

[linda allen]

It's really a shame when you are judged by your appearance and not by your performance and ability to do a job.

In the USA, this has been addressed with some success on race and gender issues (do you really care if the person who pulls you from a wreck or burning building is black or white, male or female?), but there's still a long way to go. A very long way.

I can understand potential issues if a male employee were to start wearing skirts, blouses, a wig and forms to work, but the remains of eye makeup? Does it affect your ability to rescue people from sinking boats? Your ability to pilot a boat? Replace a marker?