Why do women dislike crossdressers? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

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jsunic_1978

07-15-2012, 02:38 PM

AngelaKelly<3

07-15-2012, 02:43 PM

bridgetta

07-15-2012, 02:44 PM

GOOD POINT! i dont know either! but.. my last girl felt she was not woman enough for me.. which is ludicrous.. i think woman are very complicated creatures with many layers of emotions that we as men can only begin to access occasionally..

Cheryl T

07-15-2012, 02:48 PM

Kate Simmons

07-15-2012, 02:51 PM

I would never say I could make a blanket statement to that effect. A lot depends on the individual woman and the circumstances. There is a lot to consider oftentimes. We kind of sell women short if we feel they all think this way.:)

Alberta_Pat

07-15-2012, 02:53 PM

Maybe I am the exception. Most of the women with whom I associate have absolutely no problem with me crossdressing.

kellycan27

07-15-2012, 03:13 PM

Women find it to be a threat to them.
As my wife explained it...women grow up in competition with each other for everything from clothing, appearance, boyfriends, attention. They view us as the "competition" and invariably compare themselves to us. If we are thinner, have nicer hair (even if it's a wig), look better in a certain style ... we are the enemy...

We don't see it that way, but they do. I'm not saying all, but certainly a lot and particularly if you are in a relationship with them.

That is ridicules! The very last thing that women have to worry about is competing with a man in a dress! The truth of the matter is that most women don't find cross dressing and acting feminine as a traits they'd like to see in their man... or any other man for that matter. Even here in the 21st century women still expect men to behave like men. Actually it's you who see it that way... not women. Do yourself a solid and go out into the real world and ask women, and I am betting that outside of support forums and accepting SO's ..... you'll get an ear full.

Eryn

07-15-2012, 03:31 PM

I think it's mostly because people view all CD's as gay...

But doesn't this statement fly in the face of the stereotype that GGs love gay guys because either (a) they can interact socially without a sexual component or (b) they can "reform" them into perfect boyfriends?

I don't think tht most GGs have an opinion at all about CDers. They just don't think of us. If prompted and they are ignorant they might jump to the stereotype that "CDer = sexual deviant." If they are a bit more worldly they really don't see us in a negative way at all. They might be amused by us but I don't see that as hostility.

Rebecca Star

07-15-2012, 03:35 PM

Am I being honest to quickly

You haven't said when you tell a potential partner you CD. Though given the context of your post, I'm guessing you bare your soul quickly. If that's the case... Then in my honest opinion, your giving away too much information off the bat.

I do not dress often.

So why are you shooting yourself in the foot over an issue which, as you state, is not a regular gig for you!

Let me put it this way about honesty in relation to your post.

Women expect their partner or husband to be honest. They get really jacked off if they discover their SO has lied to them. This is especially true when CDing enters the ring. You only have to take a cruise around this forum to get a cross section of women's feelings on the subject of betrayal, to understand why they feel extremely hurt et...al.

However, with regard to your honesty, I'd be cranking it back a few notches. If a women pushes all the right buttons for you and you feel chemistry between you both, just enjoy getting to know her. If you end up going on a date, she doesn't need to know you CD.

If I was you, I'd be throwing subtle feelers (nothing too dramatic or obvious) out there. It's an ideal way to test the waters. If it turns out the lady your dating or are interested in dating is stuck back in the middle ages concerning her views on Transgender issues, then you'll know it probably wont work. Hence, you can end it before either of you fall in love, which will save you both a lot of future heartache, disapointment etc.etc.

However, if she responds in a positive manner to your subtle feelers, then it's possible she'll be understanding when the time comes to tell her about your CD'ing. BUT...give it time before you tell her. When I say get to know her and her to get to know you, that means, enjoy each others company. There is no need to tell her everything about yourself straight up.

Continue doing what your doing and the chances are you'll remain single. Follow my suggestions and it's likely you'll find a lady who is accepting of you, warts and all. But taking things slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwly, is the operative word here.

ciao

Rebecca

PS Telling most women who hold romantic feelings for you straight up about your CDing, is a bad move. I'm sure there is a hell of a lot more to you than just CDing...I'm sure you have a lot of admirable qualities. That's what she needs to see. It's these character traits which will ultimately have here falling for you.

Hence, when the time comes to tell her about your CDing, she'll know all about you and be attacted to these qualities.

While the CDing will probably still be a hurdle, it will hopefully pale in comparision to all the qualities she admires in you. Telling her straight up about your CD'ing, is like holding a loaded gun to her head and then wondering why she becomes hysterical.

Sandra

07-15-2012, 03:49 PM

Natalie D

07-15-2012, 03:49 PM

I have to admit from my little experience I find the opposite to be true. Ok on my few outings that have been organised by my local trans comunity the GG's there have been very welcoming indeed. Ok they are partners or friends of friends but I've enjoyed chatting to them. From what they have told me most women are just curious.

I dont think women dislike us at all. Starting off in a relationship of course is an all together different set of circumstances of which I have no experience.

Aprilrain

07-15-2012, 03:49 PM

Billiebluenose1878 GG

07-15-2012, 03:59 PM

Not all women, girls etc hate Crossdressers ... it depends on how they see you ... i see you girls as girls and nothing else ... i suppose i am open minded and tolerant to all ... just me xxxx

Kaz

07-15-2012, 04:06 PM

First of all we do not find you a threat, geez why would we.

For a lot of women they only know about crossdressers from how society views you ie all cders are gay, they don't understand the ins and outs of what a crossdresser is and don't bother to find out and educate themselves about the community. For those who do, the internet is a poor source of information due to it being linked to porn. Of course there is those who do try but still cannot come to terms with this, and that is fine we can't all be the same, but at least those women tried.

On the gay theme... someone at my place of work is openly 'out' and has been for about a year. He comes into work dressed most days (but not always)... make-up, the works BUT no wig and no pretend girly voice. He has expressed that this is who he is and he is accepted by enough work colleagues to make it work OK. The whole situation seems to be normalising well.

I was at a meal recently with some colleagues and the subject of this guy came up. It was a positive conversation but when a close colleague of his said that he was hoping to find a girl now, whereas before it had been difficult for him, the conversation became 'interesting'. At work I am in the closet I hasten to add - just for context.

Is he more or less likely to find a girlfriend if he dresses openly in public?

He is a delightful guy and I hope he finds her... he clearly is being open before the relationship! But it does highlight the OP's point... most people at this meal were astonished that he was looking for a girlfriend... they didn't explicitly state 'gay', but they clearly had some cognitive dissonance going on! BTW at the meal there were 3 guys 2 women and me. Many educated/tolerant guys will accept CDs but the issues may not be so dissimilar...

sterling12

07-15-2012, 04:08 PM

First thing, I think I understand your feelings, although I think your a bit misdirected, and even though your engaging in hyperbole. ALL Women do not hate us, nor do the majority, and I would imagine that the one's that might "hate" crossdressers are a very tiny minority. Most of The Women I run into at Clubs are somewhat curious, and they believe that we might be a bit more empathetic. Now, I have seen women who have married a CD, and feel betrayed because they were lied to, from The Get-Go. Are those The Women you are speaking of?

I'm not qualified to really venture an opinion about what All Women do. The only thing I can safely say is that when we use terms like "all," or "every" about People, we engage in generalities that just about guaranteed to get us in trouble!

Peace and Love, Joanie

Marleena

07-15-2012, 04:10 PM

Ack!! Not the jealousy thing again!! Not possible, sorry.

I don't think they really dislike us but they're looking for alpha males. It has to be hard for women to grasp why we do this. I always met potential GF's in guy mode. If we clicked and things progressed I'd come clean. Once they get to know you as a person and know you're not gay things get better (usually).

VS Fan

07-15-2012, 04:23 PM

Every time I ask myself why my wife wouldn't be more interested in this... I think about it this way.

For example, I would LOVE to sit and watch TV with my wife while I was dressed.

But...

Suppose she wanted to throw on a pair of crappy mens work jeans, shove a sock down her pants, and bind her chest and wear a mens football jersey and watch the game with me....? I mean, I would enjoy the company, but MALENESS is not attractive to me as a hetero CD.

Let's face it... many MTFs cross dress (including me) because we idolize the female form and want to emulate female qualities or feel closer to women etc etc... sorry, but this is NOT just about clothes when you add the breast forms and wig to the equation.

So when you think of a NON TG woman... I think it's simple that they are just not WIRED to be attracted to other WOMEN, and when we are EMULATING that, it just doesn't make sense to them.

Now, love conquers all, and in many cases, women can come to understand OUR need and can accept it and encourage it or at the least tolerate it unseen (DADT), but at the beginning of a relationship, this can be an odd thing to deal with...

It's hard to flip the coin and see it from their NON TG perspective, since we ARE TG (at one end of spectrum or the other) ... many of us might actually enjoy the scenario above (not all, but some for sure), but a NON TG guy would probably be turned off and be like "WTF??"

Insert standard disclaimer about this just being my point of view and understanding that of course this doesn't apply to everyone, just throwing my hat in the ring here.....

VS Fan

Rebecca Star

07-15-2012, 04:27 PM

I don't think they really dislike us but they're looking for alpha males. It has to be hard for women to grasp why we do this.

I totally agree :)

There are some women who are attracted to the Alpha male. Whereas others, prefer a guy who is laid back, easy going and not fussed if his partner takes the lead. Sames goes for both sexes.

I always met potential GF's in guy mode. If we clicked and things progressed I'd come clean. Once they get to know you as a person and know you're not gay things get better (usually).

That's my point exactly, when they get to know you as person. By the time things progress and it's time confide in them, you've formed a decent enough relationship to be 100% honest and be in a position to fill in the blanks.

AngelaKelly<3

07-15-2012, 04:31 PM

when they get to know you as person. By the time things progress and it's time confide in them, you've formed a decent enough relationship to be 100% honest and be in a position to fill in the blanks.

I agree :)

CDs are usually portrayed as either gay, some kind of strange weirdo or a massivly overblown negative characature. The only possitive CD figure (gay or otherwise) that I can think of who's regularly in the media is Eddie Izzard.

Once people get to know you as a person, then they are a lot more open to accepting the CDing side of you too. I think anyway :D

Cynthia Anne

07-15-2012, 04:37 PM

As it may be true some women don't don't like us many women that are open minded have no problem with us! There are many factors to consider here! Such as there religous beliefs and there upbringing! I think in general women are openminded enough to except cd's! But there many reasons why some don't want to be married to one!

Lorileah

07-15-2012, 04:45 PM

Having just spent two night son the town, I don't think women hate us. Friday night I was invited to join a bachelorette party with 10 very lovely women. They treated me wonderfully. Last night several women sat next to me and talked to me. Seems if we were hated that would not have happened

I have never seen a woman who hated me when I was dressed. Some express their concern? that I can wear something they don't think they can. They suggest changing little things. Some ask where I shop. Two have asked if they can watch me get ready. A few have asked if they could go with me when I go out.

I should say that some have said they hated me because I was tall, or had nice legs or my skin was nice. But I don't think they really "hated" me.

I think you are confusing disapproval for hate. Why do they disapprove? Mostly lack of understanding

ArleneRaquel

07-15-2012, 04:48 PM

Its been my experience that women are more friendy to CD's than are men. The men who consider themselves 'macho', are especially hostile, as are teenagers, be they male or female. More mature women kinda like us, at least this has been my experience.

Laura912

07-15-2012, 04:51 PM

Why did you put the focus of "hate" as being women? Why did you not chose "people"?

Wildaboutheels

07-15-2012, 05:03 PM

Jenniferathome

07-15-2012, 05:18 PM

I think you mean, "Why do SOME women dislike crossdressers?" There are many women on this forum as well as crossdressers with accepting wives, me included. But frankly, I can understand why crossdressing would put women off: it's weird. I don't even understand it, why should a woman understand it? I think the way one informs an SO or potential SO, it the critical thing. You can not expect them to understand. It is incumbant on us to explain and explain and explain.

Callum2000

07-15-2012, 05:21 PM

I don't get why women would feel threatened by CD's? its not them having to compete with us, its us trying to usually compete with them. A lot of my female friends love that I crossdress..they see it as flattery that I want to be like them. Any dislike I'd say is mostly due to them not being used to such things and it being a shock to them.

Jill

07-15-2012, 05:32 PM

Without having read the other responses... The human brain is wired to put everything and everyone into categories and when someone identifies with a certain lifestyle, religion or whatever, people tend to automatically lump someone into a certain category based on their lifestyle, profession, religion, political party or whatever. Even your opening statement of "women dislike us" is a perfect example. You don't want to be lumped into a category but yet you're doing some lumping but it's called being human. The "social norm" for people like us is generally a negative view. If you tell someone about your crossdressing without giving them a chance to know you and they don't have any other experience or exposure to it, they are going to lump you into a negative category. Perhaps you are telling people without giving them the chance to know you.

Jenniferathome

07-15-2012, 05:42 PM

I don't get why women would feel threatened by CD's? its not them having to compete with us, its us trying to usually compete with them.

It has nothing to do with competition. Crossdressing is odd. It is not something that comes up in the general life experience of most women. They are not threatend buys, they are confused. "What man, in their right mind, would want to dress as woman?". It just doesn't make sense. As a result it is easier to avoid this kind of relationship than engage it. We crossdressers have an obligation to try and help women understand, not simply expect it.

Callum2000

07-15-2012, 05:52 PM

It has nothing to do with competition. Crossdressing is odd. It is not something that comes up in the general life experience of most women. They are not threatend buys, they are confused. "What man, in their right mind, would want to dress as woman?". It just doesn't make sense. As a result it is easier to avoid this kind of relationship than engage it. We crossdressers have an obligation to try and help women understand, not simply expect it.

Thats very true!. It takes time for things like to make sense to people, you just have to be patient really when it comes down to it.

kimdl93

07-15-2012, 06:33 PM

Way too sweeping a generalization there. I find in my experience that most women I encounter are at least tolerant and many a very friendly and encouraging.

STACY B

07-15-2012, 06:34 PM

No body hates you young LADY !! People dont like anything different . What about all those Goth kidds ? Or rememeber Punk Rockers back in the day ? Or someone who is Realy tall,,Or realy Fat , Or is different in any way ,,,People stare ,,Gawk, An ridacule ,,Anything they dont understand an that is different from the NORM,,,That socity has deemed Normal ! So IMHO Woman are realy alot nicer than men ,,Cuz men seemed more threatend than woman ,,Cuz woman realy see us as FUNNY ,, Thats so cute ,,Look at that poor guy dressed like a girl ,,,An he didn't even get his makeup on right ,,,LOL,,,

sissystephanie

07-15-2012, 06:53 PM

I am now 80 years of age, and started crossdressing when I was 6. In all that time there have been only 2 or 3 women who let me know that they did not like crossdressers. Most of the time I talked with both men and women while crossdressed and was warmly received!! The few who did not like me admitted that they thought all crossdressers were were "gay" and they wouldn't have anything to do with a "gay" person. Having been married for almost 50 years to my late wife, and helping to raise 2 wonderful children, I am definitely not "gay!"

I have told other CD's, over the years, that the way to get over your fears is to forget about them! Concentrate on being your self n the best way possible. I am a crossdresser, but I am terrible with makeup and fixing my wig. My dear late wife always did that for me. But I still like to crossdress, so I do. And I go out in public dressed enfemme! But I look like the man that I am! Do I care...........NO!! It is who I am!!

Lorileah

07-15-2012, 06:55 PM

Just one Q for you. Is your CDing something they NEED to know about? Especially right up front?

Or is it possible that you simply feel pressured TO TELL by the very few GGs who participate here on a regular basis?

I see a train wreck coming on that. Since this is not a thread about why or when one should tell I will let that go but....oh boy you just made a lot of women hate you

suchacutie

07-15-2012, 07:04 PM

I don't think this is an issue of hate, dislike, or any other violent negative.

I believe the issue is "baggage"! On the surface of it all, we bring a lot of issues to a relationship and unless a woman can see past that baggage to the positives that we bring (and there are many) then the conversations will never get to first base. It's avoidance, not hate!

Note, that the Latin word for baggage is "impedimenta"!

:)

Jilmac

07-15-2012, 07:43 PM

I think some women feel that their own femininity is threatened if they associate with a known crossdresser. They could be hung up on the sexual aspect and not on gender issues which for me is a big part of crossdressing.

bridgetta

07-15-2012, 07:59 PM

Its competition. I dont think they hate it if they dont see you as a possible partner. Thats the generality. Exceptions to the rule exist.

BLUE ORCHID

07-15-2012, 08:10 PM

Some women jus tdon't like competation and are afraid of what they don't understand.

KellyJameson

07-15-2012, 08:14 PM

It is possible to be disliked equally by men or women for bending gender.

Also each person is a sojourn into the city of amalgamation so being disliked could happen for many reasons unrelated to how we dress.

Being feared sometimes feels the same as being disliked and anytime you step out of behavior that is familar to others there is a risk of being feared until they feel
safe.

You mention that you are still single in a way that leaves me with the impression you do not want to be single and your hurt and maybe a little angry ?

It is very easy to meet women but first you must become comfortable with the person on the inside otherwise you will fall into the trap of selling yourself and most people do not like being told to buy something against their will, it makes them suspicious and resentful

Stay honest but be sure within your honesty there is no defensiveness because you will come across as "my way or the highway" where relationships require compromise as long as you are not compromising your integrity.

If I was interested in dating a woman I would not be sexual until they knew me completely but I would be honestly flirtatious ( as opposed to manipulative seduction ) so they know I desire them.

During this time I would try to explain that I resonate more strongly with the feminine than the masculine and need to express this in my life to feel complete
as a human being.

I do not give people ultimatums of take me or leave me but instead understand that everyone is trying to find their way through life looking for happiness and some measure of security and I'm not the first place they usually look for that.

Be true to yourself but stay sensitive to others and do not personalize rejection because just as you should have the freedom to choose who you want to share your life with so to their freedom to choose should be honored.

When you protect others in this way you also protect yourself because using deception to secure love creates evil.

BRANDYJ

07-15-2012, 08:17 PM

A false blanket statement. Not all women dislike crossdressers. Most could care less one way or the other. Many will even be friends with us, but they may not want a CD for a mate or husband. No differnt then my liking lesbian women, but I don't want one for a wife. or the women that really like some gay guys, but they would not consider them as a mate. duh!
I think it's foolish to tell women upon first meeting that you are a CD. With all the pre-concieved notioins about us, no wonder they are not interested. You have to give them time to get to know you as a man: a man they can like and trust. And the simple answer to your question without complicating it, is that it's not the social norm. Most women want a man that they can trust to be her pillar of strength. Without them knowing much about you, they assume you can't be the man of her dreams. Honestly, I don't blame them one bit. I understand their reluctance until they get to know you quite well as a man. And even then, not all are going to want you as a mate. I know what I want in a women, they know what they want in a man.

MsJanessa

07-15-2012, 08:24 PM

Maybe I am the exception. Most of the women with whom I associate have absolutely no problem with me crossdressing.

I think that is generally true that most women don't have a problem with crossdressers. What they seem to have a problem with is being in a romantic relationship with one.

Jacqueline Winona

07-15-2012, 11:28 PM

Agree, Janessa. To the original poster- isn't it more likely that those you've met just don't want their S.O. to be a crossdresser? With the notable exceptions on this board, I think most women don't like having crossdressing in their own lives. I think most would be ok with having a crossdressing co-worker, but they are looking for something else in a relationship.

Launa

07-15-2012, 11:34 PM

How early in the relationship/dating do you tell them about yourself? All the women including the one I'm with now had no problem with me but they knew me a bit before I told them. Looking back I was lucky guy because I would think its a lot of baggage to take on in a relationship. Could you imagine if you were not who you are now and were just a common man, then you meet a girl you like and right off the bat she says she likes to dress as a guy with a beard and all. You might think WTF then if you think about it even more would you say hey I don't need this s*it and thats even if she is "super model hot."
Take your time you will find a good woman and tell her right before things look like they might get serious.

Badtranny

07-16-2012, 12:30 AM

Again, women are NOT the problem. There are a lot of women who would have no problem dating a CD but so much of it depends on who you are in your life. Many CD's are closeted and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with having a private life but how deep does your closet go? Many CD's act like macho douche bags out in the world but then put on a bra and panties and come on this forum and giggle and titter like raging queens. I understand the need (or desire) for privacy but even a woman who would love a CD boyfriend doesn't want any part of a weirdo with two personalities.

This all gets down to self acceptance and I say this over and over and over but until you can be comfortable with who you are, you have very little hope of ever allowing anyone else to be comfortable with you. Being in the closet doesn't mean only dressing at home, in your closet. I know for a fact that there are couples who do lots of gender play in the bedroom and the man considers himself a CD but he is not hung up about it. He has a good time with it and because of that, his wife has a good time with it. Now the guy I know doesn't walk around acting macho. He's a dude, he loves the Giants, he rides a Harley and he isn't attracted to men in the least but he will dress up at the drop of a hat for parties and whatnot. He is careful because he's not out to anyone but his circle of friends but he is beloved because he's a fun guy. He is married but I will guarantee you that he would not have a problem finding a woman. I would be all over him, and I'm on record as not being attracted to CD's.

It ain't the cross-dressing kids. It's the attitude.

Melissa Rose

07-16-2012, 12:46 AM

It ain't the cross-dressing kids. It's the attitude.

BINGO! We have a winner.

A cross dressing friend of mine has voiced the opinion, based on years of observation and experience, that cross dressers as a group are among the most selfish and self-centered she has encountered. Unfortunately, I agree with that statement. Of course, there are exceptions. Often it is driven by "pink fog" which does not always fade or disappear. It is too easy, but very understandable, to hang dating difficulties or relationship failures totally on cross dressing. It is really about the individuals involved, and being narcissistic and self-centered is often poison to relationships. Sure, cross dressing itself will be a deal breaker for some women. But to say all (or most) women hate or feel threatened by it is putting the blame where it does not belong in most cases.

TGMarla

07-16-2012, 01:09 AM

Gee, maybe it's because most women are heterosexual, and they want their men to look, feel like, and want to be men. They don't want their men emulating females.

Kinda obvious, don't you think?

WifeofWrenchette

07-16-2012, 02:28 AM

noeleena

07-16-2012, 02:40 AM

Hi,

As a woman i would not wont to marry a crossdresser,or a trans. because of a lot of issues that would be presented .

Now if the dresser or trans lives next door or down the road i have no issues or problems , its a very different matter being in a relastionship . you know the saying you cant have two women in the same kitchen its still applicable to day.

I know only too well what its like, Yet Jos & i & our daughter did work in the same kitchen one night every week for 7 weeks we just did & serveing between 12 to 15 people, we just got on worked to gether as a team.

Yet in our house truck Jos & i did the cooking with Jos close by , till our daughter came home she took over & i was gone & Jos did the same.

Other wise we get on pretty well.

Jos married a man or so she thought yes i was perceved as one yet i was not i did not act as a male did not think as a male or relate to males, not a dresser or trans as most of you know,

a delemer when i told Jos im really a female from birth with a male side./ part to me. I S. that was 19 years ago. after 35 years married & known each other over 37 marrage anuuld , we are still close very infact, just we live apart. for now,

From age 10 on i knew what i was , just you have to remember 65 allmost years ago i had no idear of words & meanings & intersex was what , ment nothing to myself & most others , so what could i say, nothing,

Had Jos known before we were married it would not have happened,

We have come a long way of cause Jos accepts im a female / woman . she lost the man she soposedly married ,

Each of us must approch how we see each other wether dressers trans I S like my self or others who are different, in reguard to friendships marrage haveing children or being life long friends,

For my self i base this on trust honisty love & being open ,not hideing behind a door or putting up a false wall.

Im not excussing myself though it sounds like it . fact is i only found out about intersex & related issues about 4 years ago.

I could not explain in words what i was , today we have the info , we know more about ourselfs ,

so do women wont to be married to dressers trans I S or others its a very indirvidule issue that we all must look at before a relastionship is entered in to.

...noeleena...

Victoria P

07-16-2012, 02:59 AM

I think many women are conditioned from childhood to seek out the macho tough guy type of male that will protect them at all costs,though aren't many women today also feminist minded and do not require constant care and reassurance?
LOL.
I think the dangerous type of male,the caveman, mega athlete or alpha type male are what most in my experience seem to want.In effect they may see us CD/TG/TV types as limp wristed (something I definitely am and am proud of),weak,indecisive ,scrambled and non assertive. However many of these stereotypes are not correct,as each person is an individual and I know from chatting in here that many of us are decent,self assured and caring types who can be great providers and hold a family together.
That's my take on things either way. I think it takes a really mature and open minded woman to see past our eye shadow and lipstick and see the person wearing it!
Luckily I have met 4 women in my life who have accepted my CD/TG self and am I happy with that.

Victoria P

07-16-2012, 03:01 AM

Marla, great answer though it make me chuckle lol!

Hugs VP :)

LisaTaylor

07-16-2012, 09:47 AM

I think that is generally true that most women don't have a problem with crossdressers. What they seem to have a problem with is being in a romantic relationship with one.

I tend to agree, though I've had a few girlfriends who were not only OK with it, they encouraged it. That being said, I think the reason SOME women disapprove of us is that crossdressing is a "game changer". This is particularly true if said woman is in a relationship with you. Unless you started out telling her you were a CD - and she was cool with it - the revelation (or discovery) suddenly changes things. She thought she was getting one thing, and now she's getting another. It's easy to see how this would be a potential turn-off for someone.

JiveTurkeyOnRye

07-16-2012, 09:59 AM

I've been on a dating website for several years now, both before and after I openly came out about my crossdressing. In that time I have experimented with both having and not having it mentioned on the site. I have now committed to having it on there because I do it too often and it is too much a part of my daily life that to not would be dishonest I feel. But to be honest I can't say that I have discovered a significant difference in the amount of responses that I do get from girls I will message on there when I do or don't list it. And, I can definitely say I've had much more success in parlaying the responses that I do get into an actual date, and never in the dating situation has my clothing been the issue of why or why we don't continue.

Now, consistently the girls have joked that their biggest hesitation with me was being worried I'd look better than them in a skirt, though I always feel this is a joke and doesn't actually lend credence to the "competition" argument.. And one girl, my ex-girlfriend that I broke up with when I moved from Ohio to California, did tell me she needed to go slow with me dressing with her in public, because she was really skittish about being the focus of attention. I think this one is a pretty real concern. Like it or not, we attract eyes and whispers and not a lot of people are okay with that. But what ended up happening is she randomly called me one day when I was out, she found out I was nearby where she was and asked if she could join me, and I had to warn her, yes but I'm wearing a skirt. She said she wanted to see me anyway and she came, and once she saw it was really no big deal, she was fine with it from then on. The point being that if you can be patient and sensitive to her concerns and her speed and comfort levels, it can really help with the acceptance.

Noemi

07-16-2012, 10:20 AM

Because Women want a big strong man.
The more masculine the more feminine they feel. And we know that feels nice.

Why do feminine ladies attract men? What about that petite shapely woman, with great hair, she makes you feel masculine, strong, ready to protect her and provide for her, how does she smell so good.

But look out here we come some where in the middle. How will we make a woman feel?
How will we make a man feel?

Women are not so hard to meet. They want to be met. Make them laugh, take them out to a concert, to dinner, buy them a gift. Then if the sex is good, they are less likely to mind about the cd'ing.

Tell them at the beginning of the relationship, when it begins.
When you are cooking her breakfast, not even yet. When you have been together a while and things seem as if they could go further. Then you tell them, when she has enough info to make a decision.

♥
Noemi

Sam-antha

07-16-2012, 12:24 PM

In general I do not believe that women hate crossdressers. Some possibly do, but there are probably more who dislike men.....then there are those who cannot stand crossdressders who cannot dress properly.
Samm

sometimes_miss

07-16-2012, 12:46 PM

It's not that they dislike us, they simply aren't attracted to us, and attractive women are all accustumed to the sad truth that when they give any guy any positive attention at all (even just a smile from her can do it, salesgirls are used to that fact alone), he usually automatically thinks 'she wants me!'. The ladies are simply avoiding giving you the wrong impression. They're not trying to be cold, they just don't want attention from guys they're not attracted to.

Lynn Marie

07-16-2012, 12:47 PM

Crossdressers are not the "hunky boy" image women have in mind for their mates. Also, somebody who actually looks better than they do is sort of an insult. What else can you say?

Pythos

07-16-2012, 12:58 PM

What Rye said was quite heartening. I don't do dating sites....yet, but I am sure if I do, I will be quite open about myself. No hiding. I think that is the deal. Hiding shows a form of insecurity (and not unwarranted, to be sure), and women want confident males, no matter how they dress or look. They however at times and too often mistaken Bravado, and Macho for confident. To me Bravado and Macho exude insecurity, and are yet another form of hiding.

I know the disintegration of my relationship had NOTHING to do with my style, but instead more to do with my anxiety when too long a time went by with no return of a text or another. Which is also a rather messed up reason, but there we are. People (not just women, and not just men, but people) are messed up.

Also, somebody who actually looks better than they do is sort of an insult. What else can you say?
Then I see a line like this. This sort of thinking though on the surface seeming right is actually so far off the mark it is not funny. If the woman is self confident herself, then you looking "better" than her would not phase her on bit.

melissakozak

07-16-2012, 01:03 PM

Not all women dislike us. Some actually enjoy us. Some tolerate us. Some ignore us. Some admire us. Some are disgusted. Some of them accept us. Some of them......get the point. But for those of them who don't like us, NOT MY PROBLEM!! ;)

ReineD

07-16-2012, 01:11 PM

I think it's mostly because people view all CD's as gay :( unforunate, but true.

I'd love to find a girl who would enjoy dressing up together and making eachother over...that would be fun :daydreaming:

Angela, I don't mean to pick on you, but I'm quoting you to illustrate one of the issues GGs have with the CDing. They don't want their lovers to be girlfriends. They want a lover (male if they are hetero, or female if they are lesbian) who WANTS them and wants to be WITH them. Also, after the teenage years, the act of getting dressed and putting on makeup is utilitarian for GGs, not unlike showering, shaving, and putting on clothes for a guy. It's just not an activity we see as being "fun", unless a girlfriend has a technical question about something, but we don't spend hours and hours dressing and putting on makeup together.

Also there's nothing more discouraging for a GG who likes a guy, than to discover he only wants to spend time acting like her other girlfriends who have no romantic interest in her.

… BUT, if the GG has NO romantic interest in a CDer, then there won't be any issues! :)

… AND, some GGs who like a CDer and who want him to be attracted to her, will play along thinking that playing girlie together is sexual for the CDer and she hopes he is also interested in HER. But she'll be devastated when she figures out that the CDer is not interested in anything other than dressing and putting on makeup.

In other words, a GG does not want to bond with a lover in the same way that she wants to bond with a girlfriend. :)

A cross dressing friend of mine has voiced the opinion, based on years of observation and experience, that cross dressers as a group are among the most selfish and self-centered she has encountered. Unfortunately, I agree with that statement. Of course, there are exceptions. Often it is driven by "pink fog" which does not always fade or disappear.

And there's that too, for people who are in longer term relationships! It accounts for the changes in acceptance levels among many GGs.

Women find it to be a threat to them.
As my wife explained it...women grow up in competition with each other for everything from clothing, appearance, boyfriends, attention. They view us as the "competition" and invariably compare themselves to us. If we are thinner, have nicer hair (even if it's a wig), look better in a certain style ... we are the enemy...

We don't see it that way, but they do. I'm not saying all, but certainly a lot and particularly if you are in a relationship with them.

This is just so NOT true.

You're speaking in general terms, so I'll respond with a general comment: the only time a woman feels threatened by another woman, is when she feels the other woman will get the guy that she wants, or will steal her guy away from her. GGs know that hetero men are not interested in CDers since CDers are missing some fundamental things that hetero men are interested in. There is NO competition there, believe me.

That said, do we ALL envy people who are in better physical shape than we are, whether we are men or women? Certainly. But this is a different matter.

Antoinette

07-16-2012, 01:42 PM

There are some who do like it but the majority of course wouldn't. I honestly don't blame them for not liking it. I feel that if my girlfriend wanted to dress as a guy (facial hair and all) I would react the same way she did to me. Shocked, confused and a bit angry but if she could talk to me about it eventually i'd tolerate it. Think about it, your sexy and ever so beautiful woman wants to look like a tough and rugged man. <(*-*v) So if you flip the issue around you can probably understand why. It took sometime for my gf to tolerate it. But. For any reason she decides to leave me because of it, I wouldn't be mad at her
.

Rebecca Star

07-16-2012, 01:50 PM

Friday night I was invited to join a bachelorette party with 10 very lovely women. They treated me wonderfully. Last night several women sat next to me and talked to me. Seems if we were hated that would not have happened.

Frankly, going on your avatar pic your 100% passable.
However, if you looked like a guy in drag I don't think you'd experience the same reception or hold the same perception... just saying.

kendra_gurl

07-16-2012, 04:53 PM

As Usual ReineD NAILED IT

They don't want their lovers to be girlfriends. They want a lover (male if they are hetero, or female if they are lesbian) who WANTS them and wants to be WITH them. .

I don't know the actual precentage of women in this world who are bi sexual. Simple logic would make one think that for a GG to enter into a relationship with a Male who tells her he sometimes like to crossdress before she gets to know and understand him very well would first think to herself, Oh I don't want to even thing about sex with another female, I am not a lesbian and I would never think about even touching one of my girlfriends in that way.

This was the largest obstical my wife expressed when she first found out about my dressing. She just has NO desire to be intimate with another woman. It took years to convince her I was not her girlfriend or another woman but just her husband dressed and looking different every now and then. Intimatsy with a CD is more along the lines of what loving couples do in Role Play or Fantasy nights for theirs partners benefit rather than their own.

My Guess is that when two total strangers (male and female) meet and a chemistry begans that when the male brings up that he even experiments at all with crossdressing the female would have to have had at least some fantasy of being with another female for that news to excite them.

Sam-antha

07-16-2012, 04:57 PM

I wonder if it means anything when I mention that no woman has ever refused to take my photo out in public and i have had many taken by complete strangers. On the other hand, refusals do happen have ahppened when I ask a man and then the response is of the variety that I have more to do than be bothered with you. I should add that most responses from men are enthusiastic, while those from women are extremely variable. No dislike, never. The locations of such photo requests range from coffee tables, through streets to tourist spots where a photo would be considered normal.
~Samm

Shananigans

07-16-2012, 05:29 PM

Maybe it has nothing to do with crossdressing...maybe the women just aren't that into you as a person...

Or, maybe she sees some sexual component in it with you, and isn't into doing anyone that looks like a girl. Or, if she is a bisexual girl that turned you down, maybe she doesn't think you would make a very attractive woman.

I'm open to dating crossdressers...I'm bi...I'm currently dating a crossdresser. But, can you imagine how picky that makes me? Not only do you have to be attractive to me as a guy, but you also have to be attractive to me as a woman. On top of that, I have to think that you are interesting and not a sh*tty person.

Kate Simmons

07-16-2012, 06:29 PM

Wow Shan, You are a "tough sell" my friend. Not only do I have to be a cute guy but a cute girl as well. Works for me Hon. ;):battingeyelashes::)

Duana

07-16-2012, 09:38 PM

I have many wonderful, supportive women friends and in general find women much more accepting than men. I've never heard a woman say, "Nice purse" in a sarcastic tone but I've sure as hell heard a man say it. I've never had a woman scream "faggot" at me but I've sure as hell heard a man say it.

Thinking back on 18 months in public, other than one particular genre of females (which I won't mention because I'm not interested in starting THAT debate), I haven't had a bad interaction.

WifeofWrenchette

07-16-2012, 10:12 PM

Then I see a line like this. This sort of thinking though on the surface seeming right is actually so far off the mark it is not funny. If the woman is self confident herself, then you looking "better" than her would not phase her on bit.I agree with you Pythos. If a woman is confident in herself the looking "better" wouldn't phase her. I'm not even particularly confident in myself and it doesn't phase me when my husband is "better" looking than I am en femme.

jsunic_1978

07-16-2012, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. :) I would not expect a GG to be lovers while I'm dressed. I want to be a lover in male mode and of course the other female friend of hers while I'm dressed. I don't expect a woman to see me in CD mode at all really. I just don't want to lie about it nor hide it and I don't want to hurt anyone. I do have a lot of fun when I go out shopping. Maybe i should just keep it at that, just get in my car to another suburb where people do not know me and just keep it to my self?

jsunic_1978

07-16-2012, 10:23 PM

Yes, most women really are supportive, but just want to be friends and that's cool. Most guys really don't say much to me or they just look the other way and avoid me for the most part and its OK with me, since I don't like guys. most all of the few percentage of people that say sarcastic remarks ARE IDIOTS and insecure with them selves and they would just pick on an old lady trying to drive, yell at a little kid crossing the street, bitch at the cashier. Since these idiots happen to see us for that moment, of course they are going to try to make them selves feel better by acting like an idiot! Anyone that is secure with them selves will say a SUPPORTIVE remark, just mind their own business or hook us up with females they know LOL. Also, if people really want to prove how ignorant they really are, they just have to run their mouths.

jsunic_1978

07-16-2012, 10:33 PM

I really love playing with women's shoes and the more I dress, Im starting to find CDs pretty attractive and i would like to have an experience with one while were both dressed. I'm a little BI now to. It feels pretty good :)

Lorileah

07-16-2012, 11:56 PM

Also there's nothing more discouraging for a GG who likes a guy, than to discover he only wants to spend time acting like her other girlfriends who have no romantic interest in her.

… BUT, if the GG has NO romantic interest in a CDer, then there won't be any issues! :)

… AND, some GGs who like a CDer and who want him to be attracted to her, will play along thinking that playing girlie together is sexual for the CDer and she hopes he is also interested in HER. But she'll be devastated when she figures out that the CDer is not interested in anything other than dressing and putting on makeup.

In other words, a GG does not want to bond with a lover in the same way that she wants to bond with a girlfriend. :)

So true and really one on MY pet peeves. I realize that for many CDs this is very similar to when a GG is finding herself in her tweens and teens. That is when GGs share the make up the clothing suggestions, the how to get a guy and what to do with them This site becomes a giant slumber party sometimes. And when a CD is dressed and thinks they are female it really does become less romantic and frankly sometimes sleazy. It is nice when a GG does fill the "girlfriend" niche but why should they? I get so many requests to make a CD over. I can really sympathize with the GGs on this. It isn't like we (and sorry but I am lumping me into this group this time) have nothing better to do than play dress up and make up with you. If "we" (sorry GGs again) wanted to do that we would get jobs as make up artists or Mac sales reps.

Frankly, going on your avatar pic your 100% passable.
However, if you looked like a guy in drag I don't think you'd experience the same reception or hold the same perception... just saying.

Thank you for the wonderful compliment. I love when people say that, it makes me feel so good. But what you see there is a still, a snapshot (OK a posed photo that took at least 5 minutes to set up). I am 6' tall, I have men's shoulders, and there is little doubt when you get within 10 feet of me that I am male. A pretty male but still a male. In fact two of the women kept slipping up all evening and calling me "he". I try very hard not to look like a man in drag, that is another pet peeve for me, the blatant drag queen look. I try and look presentable and classy. The GGs appreciate that part. But trust me, even though they had been drinking...a lot...there was no doubt they knew what was tucked away.

max

07-17-2012, 12:20 AM

I get so many requests to make a CD over. I can really sympathize with the GGs on this. It isn't like we (and sorry but I am lumping me into this group this time) have nothing better to do than play dress up and make up with you. If "we" (sorry GGs again) wanted to do that we would get jobs as make up artists or Mac sales reps.

Yeah I know the idea that someone might want a friend who could help them with something that friend was good at is ridiculous! I mean nobody asks their computer-literate friends to help them with their computer, or car-savvy friends how to fix their car, or carpentry-proficient friends how to or help with building something. I mean geeze, who would do such a thing? Has the world gone crazy?

jsunic_1978

07-17-2012, 12:51 AM

Maybe I should tell women i see only as a friend and she sees me the same? thanks for the advice :) When i go on dating sites, I think ill keep my CDing private.

jsunic_1978

07-17-2012, 01:16 AM

I just like to make people think. LOL :)

jsunic_1978

07-17-2012, 01:25 AM

I do get a lot of complements by women that don't know im CD when im a guy. Em just not interesting enough to make a date happen and i don't just say hey, lets go out sometime. I keep thinking there is a special scientific/computer programming language (rocket science) to get women to go on a date.

Badtranny

07-17-2012, 01:28 AM

Its just too much work and manipulating.

...and that's why you're having a hard time.

I've noticed that discomfort around women seems to be a hallmark of CD's. I find this to be incredibly interesting.

jsunic_1978

07-17-2012, 01:49 AM

I am really good with computers and mechanical inclined if this helps. Em not negative. Im just a realist. People just assume im negative before i start a conversation for some reason. How people can hear my brain working is beyond me. I don't laugh all that much and I guess i have an answer for everything instead of sometimes just making a joke out of an opinion. That seems to make people laugh I guess.

Krystalina

07-17-2012, 02:06 AM

MaryAnn40c

07-17-2012, 02:44 AM

80% of the women out there or GG's know we Cd fit better in there clothes than they do and we dont care what most think about it!

Jessica86

07-17-2012, 03:51 AM

I have run into more women who are accepting of it. Have you tried telling guys? Jeeze. That's the harder one to deal with. Seems more guys make fun of you because they think you are gay. The women I have run into that hate it view it as offensive at first because the stereotype of men wearing women's clothes to get off. Then, when you show them pictures like I did, showing it isn't just sexual for some, rather, an interest...they seem to cool down.

AshleyScott

07-17-2012, 04:27 AM

Mes amis, bonjour from France...

I don't know what is the resolution to the situation. I find some people, male and female, who don't like seeing me wearing a skirt and some people who don't understand what the fuss is all about.

At my eldest daughter's wedding just about every man in the room was wearing a skirt (including me) - but, because we were in Scotland, they called it by a different name - and most of the women (including my First Wife) said how dashing we all looked.

There is a mother and father in the UK who are presently accused of murdering their daughter because her activities brought "shame on their family". One of the things that brought "shame" was to wear clothes that her family thought were unacceptable.

The girl's name was Shafilea Ahmed.

So go figure :straightface:

Jeanna

07-17-2012, 04:59 AM

Gee, maybe it's because most women are heterosexual, and they want their men to look, feel like, and want to be men. They don't want their men emulating females.

Kinda obvious, don't you think?

Yes this was the point I was going to make. Turn this around and think "why do guys hate women who dress like like men?" Because they want their woman to look like woman and not a man.

Sweet Caroline

07-17-2012, 06:36 AM

A Kilt is not a skirt, there is nothing feminine about a kilt.

Sweet Caroline

07-17-2012, 06:38 AM

People are close minded or narrow minded because of Religios upbringing and that dammed Bible. One book that should be burned, it's full of lies!

Esteafanie

07-17-2012, 07:38 AM

Completely agree, you should definitely present yourself as a complex person, not just one sided entity. The advice couldn't be better!!!

jillleanne

07-17-2012, 08:19 AM

Well I think the obvious would be a good starting point for consideration. We are all taught from birth by deeds and actions, that there are male and there are female attributes and they are not supposed to be mixed together. Any variation from the black and white design instantly creates difficulties. Women are encouraged throughout life to ' find a man ' for rearing children, our primary goal of purpose apparently. When we as men display any feminine characteristics, that goes against the grain and creates an issue. It's not so much women dislike us, but rather they are taught to believe in, and react in a manner that we do not find acceptable. All you can do is simply ignore the ones that are not capable of having an open mind. The understanding ones are out there but certainly in a minority. Nonetheless, they are there. My s/o was 44 when she learned of me so age is not a barrier, albeit, the younger generation seems more open to variations.

almisami

07-17-2012, 09:01 AM

jsunic_1978

07-17-2012, 10:18 AM

Because im not gay and could care less what men think. Im tired of having only male friends. This is prob another reason i came out of the closet besides this being a fetish,

Lorileah

07-17-2012, 11:13 AM

Yeah I know the idea that someone might want a friend who could help them with something that friend was good at is ridiculous! I mean nobody asks their computer-literate friends to help them with their computer, or car-savvy friends how to fix their car, or carpentry-proficient friends how to or help with building something. I mean geeze, who would do such a thing? Has the world gone crazy?

I don't mind giving advice (I do it all the time here). I don't mind critiquing (I am brutally honest). I do mind being the one who is doing all the work. I will sit and watch you put on your make up; I will look at what you have done after you attempt it, I may even touch some things up. (and I expect my computer savvy friends to explain how I can fix it, not fix it FOR me). But when you read the posts here when someone asks for a GG to "help" they usually mean..."Do me up like I am a doll and then WE can play!!!!!!"

You asked why GGs dislike CDs (well you said "hate" but very few hate). There are several reasons. One is CDs tend to act very immature, very teenager-ish, they think it is a mean to the end (getting laid), they are narcissistic (I will admit to that), they are self centered, they WANT and don't give (i.e. "why doesn't she like it when I do it? It isn't fair she gets to do what she wants to do"...also see the means to the end above...when all you want is to dress to get laid and then you go watch a game or fall asleep...OH wait that is misandry..another thread).

So you met a woman who didn't like what you were doing. I doubt it was totally being in a dress. In fact I suspect it was a lot of the attitude. So she dumped you, she didn't want to play your reindeer games. Thus every GG in the world is a b****. Right? We are on post 70 something, seems the GGs are NOT haters are winning. Throw me into the haters group. Why because one out of 100 CDs is a PITA. And they don't see why. Therefore all CDs are PITAs. But maybe I am looking at it from a older, been there done that, frame of mind.

There comes a time when:wall: and :bonk: start to hurt and you should quit, thus, I quit on this thread. You won't change your mind, you didn't want answers you just wanted to moan about how you believe you were dissed. All (or even most) women do not hate CDs. People hate other people for many reasons. The way you dress; the way you walk; the friends you keep. That is all. Once again I am the lucky one here. I have never met a woman (friendwise OR romantically...and yes I have "played" while dressed but is wasn't just about me being dressed) who hated "me" because of what I wore. they were never jealous or threatened. They never feared me ruining their lives in any form. Some have shown disapproval for social or religious reasons, but no more (and actually less than) men. That is fine with me. I have met a preponderance of others who like me for social and personal reasons. Maybe again it is because I am older and I don't press the issue.

Krystalina

07-17-2012, 11:21 AM

Yes this was the point I was going to make. Turn this around and think "why do guys hate women who dress like like men?" Because they want their woman to look like woman and not a man.

Actually, I can understand this to a degree. Still, I doubt you would see a woman harassed for taking on "male characteristics" so far as dress and fashion(such as a woman cutting her hair very short, wearing pants, etc.) as much as you would mess with a man for wearing long hair and lipstick.

StephanieJ

07-17-2012, 11:22 AM

I think that is generally true that most women don't have a problem with crossdressers. What they seem to have a problem with is being in a romantic relationship with one.

Janessa is exactly right. My wife has no problem with men in dresses, in fact she thinks it's cute, funny, etc... She just does not like to see HER man in a dress.

Stephanie47

07-17-2012, 11:27 AM

If you were a woman would you want to be married to a cross dresser?

I am banging on the keyboard this morning dressed in cut off jeans, tee shirt, no socks and wearing beat up moccasin slippers and unshaven. Would my wife really like to see me in a cute sundress, bra, panties, slip, thigh high stockings and three inch heels and a wig?

Vickie_CDTV

07-17-2012, 01:27 PM

It is also a matter of going against basic human biology.

Women are just not innately attracted to men who exhibit feminine traits. At one time it was matter of survival for them to find a man who was strong, tough, a good provider, had good sexual prowess to breed children, a "real man". Society does not encourage girls to be attracted to feminine men either, despite a lot of lip service about how men should be more sensitive, more willing to take on traditional female gender roles etc. How many girls are encouraged by their peers to date the quarterback of the high school football team, versus the boy who is more artistic and sensitive?

At the same time, times have changed for women. For men, expectations of what a woman should be has greatly changed, whether by their own coincidence choice or by necessity due to the lack of available desired partners. A man who says he would not date a woman with short hair, or one who wears pants, or one with small breasts, or one who likes fixing cars would have his head torn off by women at large for saying such awful things; a woman who says she wants a man who is tough and looks, acts and lives their life like a thug, or wants a man who has a lot of money and will buy her things is not likely to be attacked for what she wants. What women desire in a male partner seems to have changed very little in the post-feminist era. If a man wants a woman as an intimate partner and cannot find exactly what he wants, eventually most will learn to be quite flexible and take what is available to them. Women, by nature, are just not as desperate and they don't have to be as flexible; if she doesn't want a man who is feminine, there are plenty of men that fit that bill, or are willing to be flexible to conform to her desires. If a man wants a woman who likes feminine traits in her man, he will have a rough time of it because most women just don't and they don't have to compromise on that.

It is the way human nature works, I hate it, as a modern man I admit I even resent it. At the same time, it is futile to struggle against it, it is like getting mad the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. It is just something I don't have control over. I don't resent GGs for what they desire, it is just nature, it is not something they choose or not choose; I am frustrated over it, but I certainly am not resentful or hate GGs for it. All I can do is someday hope to find one of the very, very tiny number of women who are willing to be flexible when it comes to traditional gender expectations.

max

07-17-2012, 01:33 PM

You hit the nail on the head with that one Vickie

~Joanne~

07-17-2012, 01:36 PM

I read most of this thread and now my head hurts :(

vetobob9

07-17-2012, 02:07 PM

On the gay theme... someone at my place of work is openly 'out' and has been for about a year. He comes into work dressed most days (but not always)... make-up, the works BUT no wig and no pretend girly voice. He has expressed that this is who he is and he is accepted by enough work colleagues to make it work OK. The whole situation seems to be normalising well.

I was at a meal recently with some colleagues and the subject of this guy came up. It was a positive conversation but when a close colleague of his said that he was hoping to find a girl now, whereas before it had been difficult for him, the conversation became 'interesting'. At work I am in the closet I hasten to add - just for context.

Is he more or less likely to find a girlfriend if he dresses openly in public?

He is a delightful guy and I hope he finds her... he clearly is being open before the relationship! But it does highlight the OP's point... most people at this meal were astonished that he was looking for a girlfriend... they didn't explicitly state 'gay', but they clearly had some cognitive dissonance going on! BTW at the meal there were 3 guys 2 women and me. Many educated/tolerant guys will accept CDs but the issues may not be so dissimilar...

Most women find us unique. The fact is that are there billions of "normal men" out there. But there are only two or three of us, figuratively speaking.

A guy who crossdresses and is looking for a girl, should market the fact that he is different from other guys and emphasize how that can be an asset for her.

So you wear a dress to work. What does that do for your potential girlfriend? You are already different in your styles, but strive to be different in how you treat women, compared to how other guys treat women.

For example, never raise your voice or swear when in any argument with her. Normal guys will raise their voices and cuss their women out during arguments.
Show extra willingness to accept some of the blame but only if you deserve it. "Normal men" will never do this.
Normal men also have a tendency to act selfish. Therefore, we should be the opposite: selfless. In fact, most transgender people are already selfless to an extent.

Always be willing to help but don't be a pansy and don't be intrusive.

The 21st century has changed our styles and outward gender preferences, but it has not changed the rules of dating and marriage. Those rules are the same for both normal people and crossdressers.

The things you did for your girl before you began crossdressing, are the same things you should do for her even while you are dressed.

Marie GG

07-19-2012, 11:53 PM

docrobbysherry

07-20-2012, 12:41 AM

Lot's of speculation written above! Some good, some bad. But, do u REALLY want to know what goes thru many women's minds when u say u dress?

Probably very similar to what would go thru yours if she said to u she'd just been released from prison or an asylum!

Wenda

07-20-2012, 11:58 AM

When I re-discovered dressing a few years ago, when I was out of town, I told my SO on the phone, and as soon as I got home went to see her, with my new shoes, bra, etc. She was actually frightened. She believed that it meant I was gay, and our relationship was in the tank. I didn't push it, and a couple of months later we went on a 2-day out of town trip. Wenda showed up, and she and my SO had a great time, shopping, buying trashy jewellery, etc. We refer to Wenda in the third person, as a somewhat trashy buddy. I haven't dressed completely in a couple of years, but often attach a pair of breast forms. My sweetie (who has awesome boobs) often tweeks and plays with 'my girls'. Just took time and understanding. Good luck

BRANDYJ

07-20-2012, 12:11 PM

As a woman I have no problem with crossdressing in general or crossdressers.
If my son wanted to, no problem. My brother, father, friend ect... no problem. I would go out shopping with them and have a blast. But I am not attracted to any of these people in my life.
As a straight woman I am attracted to men. Men who look like men. With body hair. I accept that my husband cross dresses part time in private because I love him, but do I want to see it? Nope. Is the idea of it something that turns me on? Absolutely not.
I think if I went on a date with someone I did not know and they told me they crossdressed that would be the end of thinking of them in a sexual way for me. Now if I really liked them as a person we could go out shopping and all of that stuff, but I think that would be as far as the relationship would go.
I found out about my husband after we had been together for years and were already in love, so I had a reason to try to understand and accept it, but I just couldn't see it working out that way in a new relationship.

I think the feelings of what Marie shared with us is the way the majority of women feel. It's OK to be friends with a CD, but definitely not relationship material. There lies the problem of telling women to soon. Once a GG is given the opportunity to get to know you, to trust you and really like you, her reaction may be like Marie expressed....You might just be put in the dreaded "friends zone" Perhaps a fine line of telling to soon and waiting to long.

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 03:01 PM

I think im going to turn gay and date other dressers. women are just too judgmental as it is, without a guy cross dressing.also, i do lack paitences with giving things time to develop. That prop explains why i have a SHOE FETISH as an alternative to picking up street hookers.

ReineD

07-20-2012, 03:24 PM

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 03:28 PM

Silentpartner GG SO

07-20-2012, 04:27 PM

I don't understand why a woman would not be romantically attracted when we are in guy mode, especially when they don't see us dressed! Just because they know they want nothing to do with us. So, women really are mean and judgmental. Yea, most GG will be good friends, but i still don't understand just because they know we do this and never seen us as a girl, they still wont like us as lovers?

Have you actually read all the replies to this thread????

We are not mean and judgmental! ffs! you sure know how to get someones back up - I'm hardly surprised that you cant find a girlfriend if this is your attitude towards women - your statement has p*ssed me off for sure!

the truth of the matter is, a lot of women dont find the idea of a guy in a dress, forms, wig and make-up a sexual turn-on and there's little chance of getting romantically involved with a person who doesnt find you sexually attractive. Add to that a rotten personality, a bad or negative attitude and a big fat chip on your shoulder and you've got a total non-starter in the relationship stakes.

brenne

07-20-2012, 04:32 PM

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 04:50 PM

I get out of this, if I'm just looking for a GG shopping buddy, Ill tell her. If I'm looking for a girlfriend, Ill keep it to my self. Personally, I'm just upfront anyhow so I don't have to hide. This is probably selfish, but I can't miss what I don't have? right? God bless all those for hiding their CDing from their lovers all of these years and being patient and taking the risk by telling her and these women still stand by most that have came out. Im learning to, if I offend anyone, sorry, and I cant be a people please neither. I still cant understand why a woman wont be romantically involved just because she knows and has never seen the man in women s clothes

and this is something I just do some weekends now and then once in a while and I have noticed in my experience, most women are not willing to give me the chance in which I can curve, bend this a little. I have a lot of guy friends. some of them know and don't even think twice, nor think im weird and most of them are straight! They just don't want to see me dressed and I respect that. Women however that would like more than just a shopping buddy don't give me the same benefit. I have some female FRIENDS thats all.

STACY B

07-20-2012, 05:07 PM

Woman dont like CDers becuz we steal clothes from the clothes line an laundery baskets when we are young so they have a bad taste in there mouth about us from an early age . So dont blame them ,,Its our fault ,,The ones that Robbed them of there Party dress or Cheerleader outfits ,, When they were young an now they hate us for it ,,,LOL,,,, An Im one of the giulty ones so throw your stones this way ,,, SORRY ,, But I just counld'nt help it ,,I was broke an didn't have any money ,,But I have given MOST of it back ,, LOL,,,,

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 05:11 PM

I REALLY NEEDED THAT GOOD LAUGH :) thanks! I stole shoes a lot and clothes to, had a lot of fun with them just because maybe I was always too shy to try to play with the girl? LOL but i think think this is why I do this besides just liking to dress.

ReineD

07-20-2012, 05:12 PM

I still cant understand why a woman wont be romantically involved just because she knows and has never seen the man in women s clothes

It's because most women's first thoughts, on being told of the CDing, are "Is he gay? Does he want to become a woman? WILL he want to become a woman? Does he do this because of fetish and will I be enough for him?"

Most of us do not grow up knowing CDers, and we really know very little about it other than what we see in the popular media.

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 05:16 PM

thanks everyone. I really need to learn how to inner act more with women, get some hobbies and things of interest to most people and not force my self. Maybe telling a girl i CD is just the same as saying lets have sex right off the bat?

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 05:19 PM

I apologize to the GGs on here I may have offended. I really am trying to balance, educate my self more and get rid of this chip on my shoulder I cant have my cake and eat it to I guess. I just have to only tell women I only want shopping buddies with. The more friends I aqquier, maybe something will develop as They get to know me as a guy to and not push the issue and curve this some.

Shananigans

07-20-2012, 05:26 PM

Wow Shan, You are a "tough sell" my friend. Not only do I have to be a cute guy but a cute girl as well. Works for me Hon. ;):battingeyelashes::)

I mean, it's true...it's kind of a tough break if you are a CD getting into a relationship with someone that is interested in all aspects of yourself sexually. You pretty much have to rock it all. You're kind of a jack-of-all-trades in the looks departments, and that takes a lot of skill. But, everyone judges everyone else physically in the looks department...especially, if it's going to be a sexual relationship. I wouldn't write someone off purely on physical attractiveness, but you really have to ask yourself if you would have gotten to know a person on That level if there wasn't an initial sexual attraction. There's no real way to know.

You kind of earn some bragging rights if you make a good looking guy AND a good looking girl AND you don't suck as a person. It gives you some right to be a little cocky (no pun intended)...but, probably a lot of people are like my SO and don't really have much of a concept of how attractive they appear.

So, I think the OP should just work it. There are tons of bi and bicurious girls out there that I know wouldn't be opposed to dating CDs. (Just had this conversation this past weekend, actually). But, you definitely got to work it. You may not realize you are playing sort of the bi card as a CD...but, you kind of are...especially, if you are looking for someone into both aspects of yourself. I think CDs can be whatever sexuality...but, ya gotta have someone somewhat into that whole thing if you're going to bring it to the bedroom. I'm sure a lot of straight girls will go there experimentally...and especially someone they are comfortable with (like their husbands)...but, right off the bat can be kind of hard to fathom. So, it's almost like your best bet is a girl that is attracted to both men and women...and, if you're trying to be both, you kind of have to work both pretty well if you are doing it on the long-term.

And, I just imagine if you are looking for someone long-term, you'd want someone pretty into it. Probably sexually. Not all CDs do...but, when you first put it out there, there is some sort of connection made for a lot of people not involved in the trans community with sexual components. It was literally the first thing that came to mind when my SO told me, just to tell you the truth. I think being bi influenced my reaction to it all. It wasn't until LATER that I actually learned more about the trans community. So, basically, it wasn't until later that I realized it was more than a sexual component. And, I think it works that way for quite a few people...when my SO went out dressed to a party, I got tons of questions about our sex life. Somehow, our friends connected the dots...and, we didn't even really have any dots drawn for them to connect...they did it all on their own, as far as I can tell.

Maybe things wills change a bit when people get more knowledgeable about trans issues. But, even then, if it's a self-identity thing...sex factors in somewhere a lot of the times...it's an important thing for a lot of people.

So, best bet for someone that wouldn't really be phased much by CDing would be a bisexual girl that is attracted to you both ways. But, there are also tons of open-minded people out there that surprise the Hell out of you...however, if I had to put my money on anything, it would be the bi girl attracted to you either way. That's just my advice...and, my "if I were in your shoes" thing. When it comes to love and long-lasting romances, everything tends to be pretty unexpected though.

Also, as far as what a few people are saying with GGs not being "fair" and not being into you romantically...NO ONE has to sleep with you. You aren't really entitled to women throwing themselves in bed with you. Maybe it's because you're a CD, maybe it's not. Either way...you aren't entitled to it. I think as women get a bit older, they get pickier. Some dude got all up on my mom's sh*t and accused her of not wanting to date him because he is bald. She quickly educated him that the real reason she wasn't into him was because he was wearing some t-shirt with a funny saying on it (which, made her think he was immature), he was a sh*tty tipper, he was boring, the entire conversation revolved around himself, and he had bad breath. I think he would have rather had her say, "Yep, it's totally because you're bald." But, in truth, his own insecurities were what HE thought she disliked...turns out she didn't like most things about him. Obviously, she was totally right about him because he accused HER of being unfair because she just wasn't interested in him in that way. He felt some sort of entitlement to women that I think a lot of men feel. So, no, dating isn't fair...life isn't fair...some people like you and some people don't. But, there are very few things in life that you are actually entitled to...and, it is almost ALWAYS, DEFINITELY NEVER someone else or their emotions towards you...you can never be entitled to such things. I think understanding That makes dating a whole lot easier and less personal when things "just don't work out." The reasons that someone "just isn't that into you" are probably things that you aren't aware of...so, unless they say it, don't assume it. And, maybe it is because you're a CD...but, the GGs in your life are still entitled to their emotions and still entitled not to date or sleep with you. The only real entitlement we have is to ourselves...and, a lot of GGs might not even have That if they had been raised somewhere else. So, you are entitled to yourself and your emotions...but, you aren't entitled to anyone else or anyone else's emotions. And, if your sense of entitlement to a couple of GGs influences your perception of HALF OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION...prepare to start working on the other half of the population, but don't be surprised if you start making threads about GMs not being into CDs. And, then, you're just kind of lonely. Take it for what it is...a few GGs not into you. Why? Who knows. But, they just aren't. Go find someone who is...problem solved.

STACY B

07-20-2012, 05:37 PM

You tell um Shannon ,,, Thats right ,,,When ya in the bed room ,,Its a 3some ,,,LOL,,, but hell ya gotta sell ya self first ,,,My best advice to you is Run the man in ,,, An them Walk the girl behind ,,,LOL,,, Cuz even if the girl is bi curious shes not gonna tell you that first ,,,Thats kinda private ,,, But later if she is into that she will ahve the best of both worlds . But hell its hard enough finding someone to love an love you back . So ya better take it slow an just be yourself that will get you there sooner than jumping in her face saying ,,,IM A CROSSDRESSER !!!! What do ya think about that ???? HUH,,,,HUH,,,, I dont think I would say much about all that till you get to know her an biuld a good relationship on trust an love first ,,,Then you can wear what you want . Protect your Queen First ,, Dress like a Queen later .

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 05:55 PM

thank you for the insight. I worked around machines my whole life and not to many women at the shop LOL I'm use to just getting a wrench and manipulating stripped bolts etc etc, u get the idea. also, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I just did my shift and drank and friendships and short term relationships just revolved from the bars. I now realize that today! WOW! The BI card, I would be interested in having fun with another CD that really looks like a girl and I do want to date a bi girl. I just want to keep straight women as friends. So, I'm flexible :) Out as a guy, I don't see what other people see in how I carry my self. I am told a lot I TAKE LIFE WAY TO SERIOUS. Iv been told numerous times im BORING I don't watch sports, BIG SURPRISE LOL :) but I do like to watch golf and i like to bowl. Most of what I watch on TV are just documentaries and si fy and the news. WOW, I REALLY NEED HELP WITH SOCIAL SKILLS. Thanks evreyone for the replies and also, Im a computer geek. ILL NEVER GET LAID LMAO :)

Shananigans

07-20-2012, 05:56 PM

LOL,,, Cuz even if the girl is bi curious shes not gonna tell you that first ,,,Thats kinda private ,,, But later if she is into that she will ahve the best of both worlds .

Guhl, you need to bring that sh*t to the Ham. Speaking of working it and bicurious girls, we'll take it to clubs where they're a dime a dozen. By the way, "work it" was brought to you by Missy Elliott's "Work It." I think you'd jam that.

That's also good advice...go to gay bar on a Saturday night and get the DJ to blast that jam. I bet the girls into CDs would be climbing out of the wood work if you're dancing to it. Jus' sayin'

Jsunic, you're thinking about it too much with the social skills thing. If you are out having fun and meeting new, fun people...you'll be surprised at the type of people out there. You don't have to go nuts with it, but if you aren't out there meeting all types of people...you won't meet anyone new. You said you're around mostly straight girls..it might also be the setting. You aren't going to find out a whole lot of people if you're meeting up at Chili's and after work. Go somewhere new and meet new people. I'd be SHOCKED if you didn't have some fun...and, when you're having fun and not really think about it, is about the time you meet someone.

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 06:27 PM

DebbieL

07-20-2012, 06:41 PM

Women have a wide range of reactions, but very often the first reactions are simply the shock of dealing with the unknown. Often, if we are good at passing, we may be out and about and be in the room for several minutes before they realize that we aren't just another of the girls. In some cases, we are too pretty, too sexy, and too good to be true - which makes us more interesting, which leads to more scrutiny motivated by jealousy, envy, and competition. She's looking at the outfit, wondering where we got it, if it comes in her size, she's checking out the hair, not realizing it's a wig, trying to figure out how we got that style, and then she starts checking out the make-up, checking out eyebrows, blush, and foundation, that's usually when she starts to spot that tell-tale shadow poking through, usually under the chin. Sometimes, she will stare for several minutes, and notice the Adam's apple when we swallow. THEN comes the reaction. The longer it takes to make the discovery, the more obvious the signs of shock.

I've also noticed that economic status can also impact the reaction. A professional or an environment where there are lots of well heeled shoppers will often yield little or know audible reaction, and more often, just a polite nod and a smile. On the other hand, the minimum wage worker at the highway rest stop working at Cinnabon is likely to make loud noises, shout to her friends, and be VERY audible.

Last night I was coming home from VA to NJ. The air conditioning was out, so I changed into short shorts, and a knit shirt. My hair was short and it was too hot to wear a wig, and I didn't feel like doing make-up. I figured I'd just pass as a man who was just wearing shorts. However, at three of the rest stops, I walked in and was not even noticed and was assumed to be an older woman - until I walked into the men's room. One girl shouted out "Ma'am, that's the wrong way", and when I went further in, ignoring her, she shouted "Oh My God, that's a MAN?!?!".

At another stop, they were checking me out and one of the boys thought I was cute, then I walked into the men's room. The manager actually had to page her staff to get them back to work, and when I went to order my food, the manager made the boy who thought I was hot wait on me.

After the discovery is made, there are other questions and associations that come into play. Did you use the women's restroom? Were you one of those who peed all over the seat? Were you peeping? Were you checking them out? Did you wash your hands? Were you getting turned on in the ladies room?

Media doesn't help much either. Look at the transsexuals in the media.
The crying game - terrorist transsexual
Freebie & The Bean - assassin transsexual.
Dressed to Kill - Serial Killer Transsexual
Myra Breckenridge - Rapist Transsexual

In other movies where the transsexual theme plays - the transsexual is played by a woman.

The other kind of cross-dresser usually portrayed in the media was the "Drag Queen"
Rue Paul - and his assortment of gay men with theatrical looks and nasty mouths.
To Wong Fu - Drag Queens get stranded in a town and transform the women and cripple the men.

Glen or Glenda - an attempt to discuss transvestites - but not well done and was considered porn at the time.
Edwin Drood - Johnny Depp is good, but the portrayal of Drood as a loser and failure - and Bella Lagosi as a drunk - not a positive image.

There are many documentaries on transsexuality and transsexuals, some of which show people going through the whole process.

In the Erotic Film Industry - transsexuals are often beautiful to look at, but still have very deep voices, and yet sound whiney when they try to speak higher tones.
Often, they are featured in only one scene with a woman, and several scenes with men.

Then we have post-op transsexuals, who do a very good job of NOT making it public that they are transsexuals. There were a number of transsexual models, many of whom were very successful, as well as several dancers, but they were difficult to tell from natural women - GGs, and did their best to act like GGs.

Many women can't understand why a man would want to be a woman. They are aware of how men objectify women, how men oggle attractive women, and are rude and unpleasant to unattractive women. They have experienced discrimination in the workplace, sexual harassment, and often sexual exploitation, as youth or as young adults. They are aware of how much society judges them based on their looks rather than their skills, personality, or humor. Many working mothers feel that they have to do the work of both a man and a woman, and see a man dressing like a woman, with a lot of obvious attention on beauty and presentation, and feel that the man doesn't DESERVE to wear a dress.

Some women think that cross-dressers are like Drag Queens or female impersonators, who make a living by making humor out of femininity. To these women, the cross-dresser is just lampooning many things that are painful memories for women. Women often see this as a matter of dis-respect of women, especially beautiful women.

Women who work very hard to maintain their appearance and look beautiful often see a cross-dresser in a short skirt, heels, and looking fabulous - and are pissed that the guy looks better than they do. I've had several women tell me "I won't date you because you have better legs than I do". Getting those D-cup breast forms may make you look more like a woman, but it will also upset many of those same women, especially if you already have great legs. To them, it's not fair that you - a guy in a dress, have better legs and bigger boobs than they - women who want to be women - have been given by their creator.

Women are also acutely aware that for cross-dressers, it's just a part-time gig, and that can also be a bone of resentment. You, a beautiful cross-dresser, come in to a bar and hustle guys for free drinks and other "perks" - and then you go home and go to work tomorrow in your suit and tie. She may not even notice that you are buying your own drinks.

I have also found that when I tell a woman I'm transgendered - a girl trapped in a boy's body, they are VERY accepting, where as when I tell them I'm a cross-dresser, they are much less accepting.

Perhaps this is because many women have the desire to be men, if only for the power and privileges associated. Also, many women have been tom-boys at some point in their lives, or know women who were great friends and were tom-boys growing up.

Telling a woman you are a cross-dresser, and only want to dress up on week-ends my sound less threatening, but it tells the women you are only about the clothes and don't really have compassion or empathy for what it is to actually BE a woman.

Silentpartner GG SO

07-20-2012, 07:02 PM

Women who work very hard to maintain their appearance and look beautiful often see a cross-dresser in a short skirt, heels, and looking fabulous - and are pissed that the guy looks better than they do. I've had several women tell me "I won't date you because you have better legs than I do". Getting those D-cup breast forms may make you look more like a woman, but it will also upset many of those same women, especially if you already have great legs. To them, it's not fair that you - a guy in a dress, have better legs and bigger boobs than they - women who want to be women - have been given by their creator.

Women are also acutely aware that for cross-dressers, it's just a part-time gig, and that can also be a bone of resentment. You, a beautiful cross-dresser, come in to a bar and hustle guys for free drinks and other "perks" - and then you go home and go to work tomorrow in your suit and tie. She may not even notice that you are buying your own drinks.

well I can honestly say that I've seen very few "beautiful crossdressers" and I certainly have never felt jealous, threatened or envious about any of them. I dont give a stuff if they have better legs, boobs, hair, clothes or whatever - they are still guys underneath all the false hair, make up and boobs - Personally I think you are on the totally wrong track there

and really, how many GG's do you think often see crossdressers looking fabulous and feel pissed about it? sorry but I think this is a little bit of fantasy! and if a GG said to you that they wont date you because you have better legs than her, all I can say is, if she's that shallow, would you really want to date her anyway???

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 08:21 PM

Very Very good point! I'm dodging a lot of aspects in that area. Average looking women are just better people! they learned all their lives how to develop personality, fitting in with everyone and I don't expect them to have been accepting, but I was surprised. The average female is less likely to manipulate n hustle guys for anything, (not that they don't, but some do) Not all perfect 10 beautiful are total you know what.., B I haven't meat any nice ones. These perfect 10 perffer to date someone that comes from $$$ owns businesses, doctors lawyers. I DON'T BLAME THEM! that all comes above and beyond being a nice guy and not a jerk, that's just secondary. I have seen this a lot. I'm not meaning to sound this shallow my self, but it really is a woman's world. Half of and most can have what ever they want. Just a regular guy, good looking, How many people will offer him a drink? ALMOST ZILCH! you get the drift. It really is a woman's world. So0 many women are now supporting them selves and have their own money, THEY CAN REALLY BE AS PICKY AS THEY WANT. sorry guys, looks and personality just doesn't cut it.

i wouldn't have a problem at all with a butch! as long as were just working on the car and shopping for a mower at home depot. Just be able to get beautiful and lady like in the evening out on a date, etc

DaphneGrey

07-20-2012, 09:13 PM

I have been to some gay bars and a costume bar just a handful of times. I was with people YOUR RIGHT I don't need anyone to hold my hand, just go! when I want to go! I may have more fun. BTY, would you happen to have a pair of shoes for me you don't wear no more? THEY DON'T HAVE TO FIT LOL :) your beautiful :) I know your happily married, which is why I just asked for your shoes :) Just kidding, but if you have a pay pal account I could just $$ with only your e mail address. PM me if you'd like to set something up :)

Seriously! I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't want to go out with you! Don't go asking women for their shoes,its just not cool!

But before I read this post I was thinking, perhaps you are expecting to much to quickly. I have been a member of this forum for many years and I have been out for many years. One of the things I remember feeling very lonely. I came out and wanted it all. Friends, purpose, and I wanted it now! I think when we get comfortable enough to to start telling people about ourselves. We just expect everybody to shrug their shoulders and go OK thats cool no biggie. Meeting the right person takes time. Building relationships takes time.

Maybe you are telling them to soon, or perhaps you are using to direct of an approach. I can't say for sure.

On the other hand there are women who find cross dressers attractive. I have met a couple of tranny chasers of the gg variety over the years. I don't know if they were bi curious, were attracted to the confidence it takes to present female in public, or some other reason. But they do exist. Like Shenanigans had mentioned (before you asked for her shoes! Creeepy!) perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.

docrobbysherry

07-20-2012, 09:29 PM

I mean, it's true...it's kind of a tough break if you are a CD getting into a relationship with someone that is interested in all aspects of yourself sexually. You pretty much have to rock it all. You're kind of a jack-of-all-trades in the looks departments, and that takes a lot of skill. But, everyone judges everyone else physically in the looks department...especially, if it's going to be a sexual relationship. I wouldn't write someone off purely on physical attractiveness, but you really have to ask yourself if you would have gotten to know a person on That level if there wasn't an initial sexual attraction. There's no real way to know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Also, as far as what a few people are saying with GGs not being "fair" and not being into you romantically...NO ONE has to sleep with you. You aren't really entitled to women throwing themselves in bed with you. Maybe it's because you're a CD, maybe it's not. Either way...you aren't entitled to it. I think as women get a bit older, they get pickier. Some dude got all up on my mom's sh*t and accused her of not wanting to date him because he is bald. She quickly educated him that the real reason she wasn't into him was because he was wearing some t-shirt with a funny saying on it (which, made her think he was immature), he was a sh*tty tipper, he was boring, the entire conversation revolved around himself, and he had bad breath. I think he would have rather had her say, "Yep, it's totally because you're bald." But, in truth, his own insecurities were what HE thought she disliked...turns out she didn't like most things about him. Obviously, she was totally right about him because he accused HER of being unfair because she just wasn't interested in him in that way. He felt some sort of entitlement to women that I think a lot of men feel. So, no, dating isn't fair...life isn't fair...some people like you and some people don't. But, there are very few things in life that you are actually entitled to...and, it is almost ALWAYS, DEFINITELY NEVER someone else or their emotions towards you...you can never be entitled to such things. I think understanding That makes dating a whole lot easier and less personal when things "just don't work out." The reasons that someone "just isn't that into you" are probably things that you aren't aware of...so, unless they say it, don't assume it. ------------------------------------------------------------

Your expressive post brings to mind a couple of important questions, Shana.

Would your mom date a CD?:battingeyelashes:

And, what state does she live in?:D

jsunic_1978

07-20-2012, 09:41 PM

Seriously! I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't want to go out with you! Don't go asking women for their shoes,its just not cool!

But before I read this post I was thinking, perhaps you are expecting to much to quickly. I have been a member of this forum for many years and I have been out for many years. One of the things I remember feeling very lonely. I came out and wanted it all. Friends, a sex life, purpose, and I wanted it now! I think when we get comfortable enough to to start telling people about ourselves. We just expect everybody to shrug their shoulders and go OK thats cool no biggie. Meeting the right person takes time. Building relationships takes time.

Maybe you are telling them to soon, or perhaps you are using to direct of an approach. I can't say for sure.

On the other hand there are women who find cross dressers attractive. I have met a couple of tranny chasers of the gg variety over the years. I don't know if they were bi curious, were attracted to the confidence it takes to present female in public, or some other reason. But they do exist. Like Shenanigans had mentioned (before you asked for her shoes! Creeepy!) perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.

Ok, lets see if I replied correctly. I am on here to to figure out why I do what I do as well as asking for some advice. I want to start listening to everything. Thanks everyone for the posts. Maybe being still single, Itll be best to just get a room and hit some clubs now n then and keep ot to a mim? I just recently came out and maybe Ill slow it down for sure. This is 2012 Unbelievable this is still all brand new to most people.

DaphneGrey

07-21-2012, 02:09 AM

Krististeph

07-21-2012, 02:39 AM

I don't understand why women dislike us so much. I am still single, maybe because I am just honest about what I do. I do not dress often. Just because women know about this they wont give me the time of day, Tough I do not push this on anyone that doesn't accept nor I would dress when I go on a date. Am I being honest to quickly or are people just that closed minded and nasty? any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you :)

One could argue that we represent a competition. Both to their ability to attract a male, or in our attention to detain in things feminine.

One of the few co-workers i ever came out to, told me she was pissed off whenever i knew something she didn't about clothes or sizes. Mary was a 'right trooper' though- she'd wear wonderfuly feminine stuff to our company outings (lake cruises, etc.) but she'd never hesitate to jump on the motorcycle with me for a quick ride, (not sitting side saddle either, but safely pulling her skirt up a bit to straddle the seat). She was savvy enough to know that despite the fact i ultimately wanted to look prettier than her, i was not real competition, and in fact i did my best to steer a number of decent guys to her... If i had a little sister, Mary would have been perfect.

Sally, on the other hand was a debutante in everything but the dress... but I was first to welcome her when she was hired, (the rest of the people acted like idiot standoffish fools) and our friendship waned as she was more socially accepted.

She left work after only two years, I saw her 6 months later on the street by my apt. we stopped in and had a number of drinks- she was separating from the guy she left the company for (to be a mom and all the surburban trappings). although i never liked her husband, i really felt bad for her. She asked if i was gay, told her no, then she asked if i was transexual. I blushed clear up to the top on my head. Ordered a round for the bar. told her she was the penultimate of class and style for me... he really got off on it, evidently.

Nothing came of the relationship- but we saw each other twice after that at random- she acted like a long lost sister- and so did I.

There are some really cool ladies out there, they should be supported disproportionally when we find them.

the rest of them? live and let live, if possible.

One thing is for certain - if they have a problem with us (CDs) than they have the bigger problem.

Chicks who do not know how to act around Cds or gays, they are morally stunted, regardless of religion or politics.

jsunic_1978

07-21-2012, 03:09 AM

If what you are doing isn't working out you might try changing.

Most of my friends today are people I met and developed relationships with as a woman. I had spent a lot of time in bars and shopping etc.. That was well and good for being out. But soon after I began feeling very lonely. I had posted about it asking for advice. ReineD suggested that I do some volunteering as Daphne.

I took her advice and as usual she was right. I volunteered at lgbt center and started meeting people. I joined a progressive church in Brooklyn etc... When I got away from the bar and club scene and spent that time with people I began to see over and over again, friendships began to form.

So you might try taking in a lecture series at a museum, perhaps an art class or something like that.

You had mentioned that you don't know why you do what you do. Well neither do I, but before I was able share Daphne on a deep and true meaningful level. I had to find out who she was and is. That takes time spent as your girl self interacting with other people.

And as others have said loose the chip on your shoulder. What is simply is. I am trans I didn't ask for it, I didn't want it, and fought like hell against it. In many ways it is a real lousy hand to be dealt. I can't be mad if women don't find me attractive, I can't hate teenagers who point and laugh. because if I let all of that get to me, I wouldn't have been able to make friends of any kind in the first place.

I can come across as bitchy and judgmental, if I do I am sorry, but I wanted to add that I get why you are bitter and lonely, I have been there and I understand. It is not an easy place to be. I also think you are pretty courageous and open and honest. I am not judging you, just offering some ideas, things that have worked for me.

Thank you so much Dafnie :) your pretty :) I will take your advice. I never knew GLBT had volunteer stuff. I am sure we will meet bi women at some point. I need to really work on friendships, I understand that. People will like me a lot better ounce I get rid of that chip. I'm starting to like my self more and I am open and honest, so what? What you see is what you get. No surprises, and most women will not know what a good guy they have passed up. for the most part, I am a decent person. I just get frustrated. I cannot let people get to me nor be bitter just because people write me off. You would think women would embrace us. Most of us are not the typical jerk. Thats not my problem if most women prefer that. women are attracted to popularity and the idea that a man can get ANY woman he wants. This is why most women are attracted those guys, figuring shell be the one, but shell just be the next bus. Thats not my problem and Im learning how to let go. Well, I'm trying to. A lot of men do not mind tom boys as long as the women isn't a guy in the bedroom. It would be nice if most women would just think the same way, but they don't. Thats OK. Also, I CANNOT FIGURE OUT THE WOMEN THAT TURN LESBIAN AND BI, WOULD THEY DATE ME, A CROSS DRESSER WHILE IM JEN, NO! THEY JUST WANT GG WOMEN they don't go for nice guys, just other women.

DebbieL

07-21-2012, 03:29 AM

well I can honestly say that I've seen very few "beautiful crossdressers" and I certainly have never felt jealous, threatened or envious about any of them. I dont give a stuff if they have better legs, boobs, hair, clothes or whatever - they are still guys underneath all the false hair, make up and boobs - Personally I think you are on the totally wrong track there

and really, how many GG's do you think often see crossdressers looking fabulous and feel pissed about it? sorry but I think this is a little bit of fantasy! and if a GG said to you that they wont date you because you have better legs than her, all I can say is, if she's that shallow, would you really want to date her anyway???

Back in 1990-1992, I was seriously considering transition, and was dressing and acting like a girl from the minute I got home from work until I got dressed to go to work the next morning, and all day on week-ends and evenings. I got to the point where I could pass pretty well, and often went to parties and dances where I often met up with many women. I was also recently divorced. I did have a woman friend who was living with me, and supporting me in transition. She actually sought me out.

I have had a wide variety of reactions from hundreds of women, ranging from women who wanted to take me home and make me their live-in maid and slave, to women who wanted to take me behind the bar and get me "fixed" (cut my balls off) where nobody would notice. Granted, the latter was a lesbian bar, and the women who wanted to do the castration were worried that I would be appealing to their bi-sexual girl-friends, which was often true.

In 1992, my ex-wife told me that if I didn't stop the transition process, she would push for court supervised visitation, and showed me a signed letter from the school social worker stating this recommendation, so I quit. I still dressed and went out to many places as both Rex and Debbie, and got a lot more feedback. Many women who were bisexual were very interested in meeting me, but lost interest when they found out that I had had a vasectomy. It turned out to be a good thing I did, because one woman did try to have unprotected sex with me after she learned she was pregnant, and lost interest ten seconds after she found out that I was "fixed".

Since many of these women where members of 12 step fellowships, where it's not uncommon to get a lot of honesty, I would suggest that some of the observations were probably more honest than what I might have gotten if I had handed out sheets of paper and conducted a survey.

For me, I found it interesting to observe the MANY DIFFERENT REACTIONS of MANY DIFFERENT WOMEN, and begin to sort those reactions against the types. Most of the different patterns are patterns I have observed personally in observations of about 2,000 women in Colorado Springs, Denver, Kingston NY, Princeton NJ, and New York City.

What varied by location was the degree of reaction. For example, in Colorado Springs, a more conservative city (Focus on the Family shut down all of the gay and lesbian bars shortly after I left), the negative reactions were very intense and very real, with real danger. In several cases, I was protected by people who learned of the danger and wanted to protect me because they knew me. At the same time, women who were bisexual were very reluctant to express interest and would tell me privately that they were afraid that if it didn't work out with me they wouldn't be accepted by the Lesbian community. They would be labeled "Ding Dings" - Lesbian slur for someone who bounces between men and women like a ball in a pinball machine.

In Denver, which has a very large Gay and Lesbian community, but not much of a bisexual or transgender community, there were more mixed reactions. Some women found me very attractive and wanted to get to know me better, especially when they got to know both Debbie and Rex. Many even liked Debbie better. Even though I only had sex with a few of them (I had a bisexual girl-friend who liked threesomes with other girls who were lesbians), I became friends with many of them, and even went to women's meetings with many of them.

In NYC, however, I would have women who barely knew me invite me for coffee, want to get to know me better, and even declare a degree of interest. They would tell me that they were bisexual and were very interested in knowing if I could be open to both straight and lesbian sex. Often, they would lose interest when they found out that I couldn't have children, but there were a few who turned into great relationships and loved me as a lover. My "one night stands" usually lasted at least 3 months.

In Kingston NY, reactions were all over the map. Many of the women became good friends and we supported each other in times of illness and hardship. They often spoke freely about their initial reactions to me, and how their views changed over time. At first, they thought I was a drag queen, just making fun of women. Later, they realized that I wanted to be a woman, and they realized that I did understand the difficulties they had experienced. We often had many common experiences, including being raped, being sexually harassed, being groped in public, being ogled, having men make lewd remarks, and having men loudly and verbally assault us for being too fat, too old, or too "sexy" (assuming we were hookers).

The women were also impressed by the way I handled these situations, which did not involve violence, humiliation, or anger, but rather, a sense of humor and compassion for what the men were experiencing. They were most impressed by how I reacted when I got clocked. They would realize I was a guy, and I would make the room come alive by just being totally authentic and verbalizing many of their concerns. Something like "Very good, you figured out that I'm really a guy. Don't worry, you're not gay, but I'm a lesbian, so you probably shouldn't get too interested, but you were attracted to what you thought was all woman. No it doesn't take balls to be a girl, just the opposite, but it does take COURAGE to wear an outfit like this, whether you are a man OR a WOMAN!". Then would come the questions, often dozens of them in just a few minutes, which I would answer as honestly as I could.

How long have you been doing this? - Since I was six, I have wanted to be a girl since I was 2.
Are you gay - Yes I'm a lesbian? - I'm attracted to girls and prefer to make love as a woman. This includes toys, humping, oral, and manual stimulation - my partners are usually bisexual.
How do you hide your junk? - I wear tight panties. My penis is very small, and the testes go up into pockets inside. When I'm properly packed - you can't find anything.
Do you tuck? - No I'm not long enough to tuck.
Do you use the ladies room? - yes, but only to pee and only sitting down.
Do you want the sex change? - yes - but it's very expensive, and I would have to give up ever seeing my kids, but I'd still have to pay child support.
You have children? - yes - a son and a daughter. My miracle babies - my son is 3 years older than my daughter (give ages). My son was conceived while I was dressed in a corset and stockings, and I was tied spread-eagle to the bed. My wife threw the condom in the trash, but I was gagged so I couldn't protest. I turned out to be a great experience, with the wonderful result of a new baby boy. That was the only time I could have possibly conceived him.
You were married? - yes, for 9 years - my wife decided she didn't want to be a lesbian anymore.
Are you single? - honest statement of actual situation
How long does it take you to get dressed? - anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on what I want to do and where I want to go. Two hours is the full spa treatment.
Does your employer know? - Yes, so does the federal government, and the states of Colorado, New Jersey, and New York.
Are you transsexual? - Yes, I feel that my insides are girl, but since I don't want to deal with the consequences of transition - I simply state that I'm transgendered - wider range.
How long have you been dressing? - Since I was about six, a few decades. As often as I can.
Did you parents know? - They knew. My mom didn't want me stealing and/or soiling her clothes, and dad hoped I'd grow out of it.
Do your kids know? - Yes, I told my son when he was 10, his mother tried to tell him, hoping that he would hate me. Instead, he's very accepting, and so is my daughter.
Are you a pervert? - I have my kinks, I'm a switch, and particularly enjoy being submissive, but I also know how to give pleasure to another submissive. I love to dress up for sex too.
Do you have intercourse? - I used to, but in the last 7 years, I haven't wanted it or needed it. There are so many other things my wife and I would rather do.
Have you ever done it with a man? - I've given hand jobs and a blow job, but I didn't really enjoy it that much - I almost threw up.
Have you ever done a 3 way? - many times, with 2 other girls, and a few times with man and a woman.
Do you have sex as a man? - Very rarely - I have a great deal of difficulty having an orgasm in normal coitus. Some of my lovers have really liked that.
Are you a Christian? - Yes, I grew up United Presbyterian, in the "Liberation Theology" movement of the 1960s and 1970s.
Don't you think it's a sin? - No - Leviticus refers to a man violently raping younger boy. In battle, all of the males were killed, women who had obviously had babies and had stretch marks were also killed immediately, the rest were violently raped. Later, women captives would have their heads shaved, live in the house with the man for a few weeks, and then he would rape her. If she gave him pleasure and seemed to enjoy it, she would be like a wife (a Concubine), if she did not please him, he would have to set her free. He could not keep her as a slave.

Doesn't the Bible forbid men dressing as women? - Again, this applied to battle conditions. Often, to save her son's life, a mother would dress him like a girl, hoping that her son would live long enough to escape, get help, or avenge the deaths of her family. It wasn't ONLY the boys in dresses that were to be killed, it was ALL of the boys, dressed or not. Today, our wars are more "Civilized", we use carpet bombing and cluster bombs to kill men, women, children, even babies, without ever seeing their faces.

What about when Paul says got hates the sodomite? - In Hebrew or Aramaic, that term would have referred to a rapist, one who violently forces non-consensual sex on a boy or a girl who is unable to resist. Such a rapist produces many victims, the man or woman, their spouse, their children, and their children's spouses.

I'm just willing to take on all questions and answer them as honestly as I can. My answers are well thought out, and even though I may have answered the same questions hundreds of times, but each time I realized that this may be the first time they have ever dared to ask such questions and are genuinely interested in the answers.

There have been times when I've been out at a Denny's or a Diner after an event, a meeting, or a party, and spent hours answering question after question. I share as honestly and openly as I can. Often, they are fascinated by the details of my sex life, or the drama of the marriage, or even some of the hardships. Often, they will begin to open up and share common experiences, and common hardships, and I see people deal with issues that have plagued them for decades and become free.

I don't try to gloss over the hardships, and I don't try to minimize the pleasures and joys. When I'm done, I almost always have a new set of friends, and the next time I show up at an event, or a meeting, they are very friendly, very supportive, and very accepting. They realize that this is very much a part of who I am.

Many of those who get to know me better see that I'm much happier when I'm Debbie, that I'm more fun, more organized, more compassionate, more open, more honest, and more authentic. They begin to see that Rex is always hiding behind a mask, trying to protect the facade, shy, a loner, and way too full of factoids, useless information, intellectual thought, and just plain "Nerdyness". There have even been times when I have been invited to events, but only as Debbie. I have been asked to speak in front of hundreds of people - as Debbie, I have been asked on dates by women, but to come as Debbie.

This post addresses the question more deeply. Women don't like or dislike cross-dressers. They like honesty, sincerity, authenticity, compassion for others, respect for others, and a good sense of humor. They DON'T like deception, evasiveness, dishonesty, defensiveness, whining or complaining, and going "macho" while in a dress. There are thousands of questions they want to ask, but if you start going macho, defensive, and hostile, then they will probably just ignore you, or even get defensive and hostile themselves.

jsunic_1978

07-21-2012, 03:45 AM

WOW!!!! thanks a lot :) I really needed this response. This has answered everything. Thank you so much! so, I guess i could try dating sites such ad date a cross dresser? post pictures of me as Jeff and jen? also, I have to have sex while i am a woman. Maybe I could just try meeting lesbian women on line? just post me as Jen? Couldn't hurt right? after all my first dates are just usually coffee and a movie. I again didn't see my self getting macho nor complaining. I get like that when asked DID YOU REMEMBER TO LOCK THE DOOR??! I need to go full time as a woman. I'm Jeff right now so im a little edgy LMAO. Thanks again for this response and everyone else to, Thank you :)

This is an awesome site :) I was just talking to some bi women on this dating site. Most of them are cool and some fantasy about being with a CD sexually. The advise given on this site has really helped me. Thank you everyone :)