Do I Pass

[Inna]

We have ten million threads devoted to discussing this subject, and it always sort of stops half way through. As I looked upon yet another, I wanted to write what I saw, then I paused, and it finally hit me.
The point isn't in our interpretation of what we see as a observer, and it isn't that the person behind the pic isn't sure, well sometimes, but for most time they really do know they "Do Not Pass", so why the question????????

But this is not aQUESTION but plea saying, "Please give me confidence, cause I am so scarred, and I need you love!"

Believe me I know, I was there, geeee, I am there now from time to time on a Bad Hair Day, lol. I remember how empowering were the words of others who said Oh you look just great....well, I didn't but those words got me here.

What a confusing set of conditions this Transness is, and as I am finding out lately, it is based more on the fantasy then pure reality!

[EnglishRose]

Well of course, the commenter can only perceive a subset of what the subject is asking of them, whether it be facially, body shape or what-have-you. There are so many things otherwise and nobody viewing a picture can truly say that person will be perceived by the majority of the public as their true gender.

I personally am also guilty of soliciting such opinions, just for a small piece of validation that leads to confidence somewhat. However any such praise is still welcome, whether we realize exactly what we are asking or not.

[kimdl93]

Everyone appreciates validation. And I'm sure that each person who posts a picture, even if they don't aske the question, implicity hope that the response will be affirming. I suppose a person may gain a little confidence by receiving a positive comment on a picture post. For those who never venture outside thier own home, maybe that's enough...and that's fine.

But its of small comfort when one ventures out into the world en femme. Then, we don't get to choose the camera angles, lighting or contrast and can't photoshop ourselves. I think the courage then comes from accepting ourselves as we are, accepting that with the full knowledge that we won't "pass" every inspection. So, I'd like to suggest an alternate term - instead of "passible" how about "possible"

[MC-lite]

We have ten million threads devoted to discussing this subject, and it always sort of stops half way through. As I looked upon yet another, I wanted to write what I saw, then I paused, and it finally hit me.
The point isn't in our interpretation of what we see as a observer, and it isn't that the person behind the pic isn't sure, well sometimes, but for most time they really do know they "Do Not Pass", so why the question????????

But this is not aQUESTION but plea saying, "Please give me confidence, cause I am so scarred, and I need you love!"

Believe me I know, I was there, geeee, I am there now from time to time on a Bad Hair Day, lol. I remember how empowering were the words of others who said Oh you look just great....well, I didn't but those words got me here.

What a confusing set of conditions this Transness is, and as I am finding out lately, it is based more on the fantasy then pure reality!

@Inna: I often question my reasoning behind transitioning. Not because I question whether or not I have GID; that's a given. And not because I want to live as a man; It's been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not a man, I'm not built like a man (birth deformity; no putter) I ask myself why I'd want to work 5 times as hard as everybody else for 1/3 of what they were handed in this life.

Then I have to deal with the stupid looks and hushed remarks from others. To me, it stands to reason that transitioning is a fantasy and I'm wasting my time.

Some days, I'm not sure why I go on. But I do. I guess it's because I have so many true friends who love me and care for me. I still have my mom, who considers me to be Her daughter, and treats me as such.

And do I pass? In their eyes I do. But they see inside of me. They just ignore the facade.

And I'm glad that they do.:) Because reality is brutal, ugly and cruel. Reality says that I'm neither a man nor a woman. And I'm not ready to face that reality, because I'm not capable of living my life in between genders.
Not anymore.

:Miki.

[ReineD]

The passing question comes up more on the CD side of the forum than here. It came up with my own SO years ago when she was starting to go out. Her gender identity was more that of a male then (she was raised as a male). I remember she once told me there had been a time in her life (when she still wore press on nails), if even the nail on her small finger popped off, she felt as if her inner male emitted strong beams of maleness from that tiny spot (my analogy), to the point where everyone would think that she was a male in drag. She felt as if she would be judged negatively and be made fun of.

Now, she is herself when she goes out. She has her own mid-back hair, her own fingernails that she doesn't bother polishing half the time (no time), very little makeup (she's had laser hair removal on her dark beard), and there is not a huge difference between how she looks no matter what clothes she chooses to wear. At the same time, she has gotten to know people (as opposed to lurking at the back of a store or a cafe), and she knows that they know that she is not a GG. She engages in long conversations and she knows that they like her.

I think that the wish to "pass" is as you say, synonymous with "accept me for who I am and hopefully you won't think of me as a guy". :)

[Jorja]

In the beginning it is only natural to seek that "passing" ability. It is something each and everyone of us seeks. We do not want to look like a "man in a dress". Some pull it off almost flawlessly from the start. Others struggle to look like much of anything at all. It is a confidence builder to have someone say, "I would not have guessed, you look so pretty". Then we all have those days when no matter how hard we try, the best place for us is hiding under the bed. As we progress in our endeavor to look like gods gift, for the most of us it becomes easier and we don't ask the question as often. Then we get to a place where we just don't care if we pass or not. We look like we look and if you have a problem with it go **** yourself. Most who go on to have SRS and FFS eventually lose "the need" to pass and it is what it is take it or leave it.

[MC-lite]

In the beginning it is only natural to seek that "passing" ability. It is something each and everyone of us seeks. We do not want to look like a "man in a dress". Some pull it off almost flawlessly from the start. Others struggle to look like much of anything at all. It is a confidence builder to have someone say, "I would not have guessed, you look so pretty". Then we all have those days when no matter how hard we try, the best place for us is hiding under the bed. As we progress in our endeavor to look like gods gift, for the most of us it becomes easier and we don't ask the question as often. Then we get to a place where we just don't care if we pass or not. We look like we look and if you have a problem with it go **** yourself. Most who go on to have SRS and FFS eventually lose "the need" to pass and it is what it is take it or leave it.

@Jorja: Well said! I think GGirls eventually come to that same place.

[Kaz]

Inna,

From my own experience and that of the other posts in this genre, it is mostly about validation and confirmation of intent... 'am I okay here you guys?', 'do I belong?'...

Some of us, me included, want to think we can pull off a good pic or two to convince ourselves...

Then some of us are convinced.. or are at best are following through on the real reason many of us do this... and take it all further...

'Do I Pass' = do you think I can walk in the crowd, holding my own, being who I really believe to be me even though I am scared to death of being publicly humiliated and losing all my self-confidence and possibly even losing my job, family and everything.

Yeah, Inna, we are in a similar place today!

I often give support to photos that I know are worse than my own and I also know that my own are only photos and not real life and that is so very very different!

So... if we don't encourage and support, we wouldn't have you... and I know it is tough for you right now... and if I lived over there I would want to hug you and all that jazz :hugs:

But yeah... these 'Can I Pass' threads... when you have been there and lived the reality, I know...

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have seen post after post like Reine mentioned in the CD section as well as here asking if they pass. There are very few of us here who have the "coldness"of heart to tell the truth to the person asking the question.

Almost without exception we lie through our teeth and "patronize" the person asking the "pass" question by responding with some positive response. Instead of, "No dear, you are butt ass ugly and look like the Marlboro Man in drag. Your feet look like Bozo's, the body hair and beard you are trying to hide make you look like Neanderthal."

While at the same time we secretly feel "Thank God, I don't look like her. Who is she kidding."

Now is that a good thing or a bad thing to hide your true feelings about the person asking the "pass" question?

Before the HRT rid my body of Testosterone, I would have been more direct in my response to the person asking the "pass" question. Now with Estrogen flowing through my veins, I like most of you, try to find something positive to tell that person. Even if it is just a compliment about the clothes she is wearing (thus advising the actual question of passing physically).

I think most of us here want to praise and encourage our sisters - not bring them down. AND I think in the back of our minds, we keep in mind the high depression and suicide rates amongst TS and not wanting to be the person to send someone over the edge.

Honesty amongst TS's is a rare commodity.

Who amongst you have actually told any sister she looks like a "horses ass, or some other trite/graphic comparison?" That's what I am saying NONE OF US HAVE!

We are like the "The Glass Menagerie" in the play by Tennessee Williams.

[Eryn]

The passing question comes up more on the CD side of the forum than here. It came up with my own SO years ago when she was starting to go out. Her gender identity was more that of a male then (she was raised as a male). I remember she once told me there had been a time in her life (when she still wore press on nails), if even the nail on her small finger popped off, she felt as if her inner male emitted strong beams of maleness from that tiny spot (my analogy), to the point where everyone would think that she was a male in drag.

Do I ever resemble that remark! I remember one time I was at the Rennaisance Faire and for some reason my nose started to run. Without thinking, I grabbed a tissue and wiped my nose, disturbing my foundation. I was walking around with my hand over my mouth until Mimi reassured me that I was fine and nobody would see that small "chink in my armor." She was very nice about reassuring me, but she was probably thinking "You're at RenFair. People around you are dressed as fairies and ogres! get over yourself!" :)

There are millions of GGs out there that have one or several masculine characteristics. They don't go out thinking "I hope I can pass!" For them it is a given and that's the attitude they carry with theml.

[ReineD]

Eryn, I meant in this forum there are more CDers who ask whether they pass or not than TSs. It's not an odd question for someone who was raised as a boy and who for a large part of his life thought of himself as being a boy (the CDers, not the TSs).

For the average GGs it's more a question of knowing and accepting how feminine they are compared to other GGs. A lot of GGs know they aren't girly-girls, they're not interested in the frou-frou. Maybe they've always had a stocky build. Or maybe they're the sportive, outdoorsy types. Or maybe they just don't have the time or the resources to spend on adornment. But unless they have GID they won't question whether they appear as females, because fundamentally they know they are. But, if such GGs were FtM, then I'm guessing the question of presentation and being outwardly perceived as a guy would be a concern.

[sierra_g]

I am working on taking the steps to fit who I feel I am inside. There is definitely a big difference between what a CD does to pass and what I feel a TS does to pass. CD's use wigs, fake nails, fake boobs, fake hips, and fake everything else. Stuff that comes off at the end of the day.
TS's, on the other hand, get fem hairstyles, grow their nails out, take hormones, get augmentation, and do everything in their power to finally be who they feel they are and to finally be accepted by their aligned gender.

At the end of the day though, I think that most CD's and TS's are fooling themselves if they think that strangers aren't talking about them later (OMG! Did you see that dude in the dress?!?). There are exceptions of course, but for the most part "passing" involves the stranger's ability to play along. (IMHO)

[AudreyTN]

I had a good talk with someone on here about a month ago, and they told me (this is just a summation, not verbatim) that being nice and telling someone they pass, when they do not is actually more harmful than it is good. But it was explained that if you tell someone constantly they pass, or they look great, you're just feeding their ego, and when someone who doesn't think they pass tells them so, it's disheartening. She went on to say constructive but truthful criticisms are more productive and healthy for a person's mental state of being, because it gives them a more accurate depiction of where they truly are in their progress.

Sometimes we all need to hear the truth, even though it may not specifically be what we want to hear.

:)

p.s. I have good makeup days where I rock it and get everything perfect, and I feel good even though I know I don't completely PASS but I know I look as good as I can based with what I have to work with. then there's days (like today) where I either can't wear makeup because I'm going for laser removal on my face, or I just do a poor makeup job and my wig hair is in disarray and I know I don't pass lol, but with the good, so must come the bad.

[StephanieC]

For me, that question "do I pass" is always on my tongue. I have wanted to ask that 100s of times. But I'm out in bright sunlight, I'm in both casual and dress occassions, I'm clearly in public and I interact with people. I have yet to hear a bad comment. If I took note, I'd always hear those voices wondering if I match, whether they will notice I forgot lipstick, if I forgot to shave/pluck/tweeze there. I'm dying to ask "I'm glad to hear about your garden, but do I pass". I just carry on with the moment and all that stuff seems to fall away. And lately, it's been my voice...but I've never had anyone ask "hey, how come your voice keeps changing?".

I just do what I can and everything else seems to take care of itself. It's easy to make a mountain out of a molehill.
-stephani

["Mary"]

Everyone appreciates validation. And I'm sure that each person who posts a picture, even if they don't aske the question, implicity hope that the response will be affirming. I suppose a person may gain a little confidence by receiving a positive comment on a picture post. For those who never venture outside thier own home, maybe that's enough...and that's fine.

But its of small comfort when one ventures out into the world en femme. Then, we don't get to choose the camera angles, lighting or contrast and can't photoshop ourselves. I think the courage then comes from accepting ourselves as we are, accepting that with the full knowledge that we won't "pass" every inspection. So, I'd like to suggest an alternate term - instead of "passible" how about "possible"

Spot on - IMHO. We all look for validation.

[TeresaL]

That question is probably asked more frequently, prior to the first time going out in public as a confidence booster with hopes that the occasion doesn't turn south and they get clocked. I'm not sure that clocked means docked though. LOL

However, an honest answer is more valuable than bending over backwards and telling them they pass just to be kind. OTOH, very few of us either want to or are willing to spoil someone's vision, passion, and spirit. At some point, they will have to dam the torpedoes and move on. They may have a pleasant surprise and not be noticed. It is kinda cool, and an esteemed reward, when a GG at Paul Harris carried some of the dresses and other garments I'd picked out and unlocked one off the dressing stalls for me to try them on.

Bottom line is if you are in public and either treated like you pass, or treated with respect to/of the third gender, then it doesn't matter, and the question probably won't be necessary.

[Badtranny]

There's a newbie in the CD section asking this question and every single respondent has told her she totally passes, despite obvious beard shadow and sketchy eye makeup. She looks like a lot of fun to party with but she is clearly a beginner and clearly does not pass even in her choice of pics. Yet not a single person who commented gave any constructive critique. Only rah rah you look great.

What is the purpose of not even being a little bit real? Why tell somebody they can pass when we know that it's nearly impossible to do? I didn't comment in her thread because I didn't want to be "mean", but around here that seems to be synonymous with honest.

[Nicole Erin]

Am I the only one about who thinks, "Let them think what they want"?

Whenever i hear about some tranny "passing", I get this weird image of a TS or Cd walking down the sidewalk, just doing whatever a tranny does, and people standing there lining the sidewalk and everyone is smiling and happy and saying things like, "isn't she pretty..." "...passing so well..." "...so pulled together..." and it is happy land. Everyone has this (poop)-eating grin and a thumbs up for the TG lady who is happy and everyone is drinking lemonade and has friendship music playing on the radio.... oohhh you're making me live, whenever this world is cruel to me, I have you to help me forget... ohhh you're making me live now darling!....

But then a hater yells "FAG!" but it doesn't matter cause the acceptors throw magic glitter on him and he comes out of the closet as being a CD and full-time panty wearer himself. Then the song "man I feel like a woman" starts playing...

I hate the word "passing". I mean it is just a dumb word.

I need to go throw up now

[Marleena]

Am I passing? Hell no! You gave me an idea Inna.

[TeresaL]

Am I passing? Hell no! You gave me an idea Inna.

Marleena, I saw what you did, and you are cute.

[Marleena]

Marleena, I saw what you did, and you are cute.

Thanks Teresa.:) It's true.. we get asked that question over and over. The longer you're here the worse it gets. We need a stickie somewhere.

[Inna]

Oh [-]guys[/-]....sorry gals, I had a real laugh with the last few and some real insights of brilliantly written Teresa's response! I am so glad some of us get it, and some of us will go on imagining things I guess at the end it is how real YOU feel in your womanhood, woman-like-hood, woman-almost-hood, dude-like a woman-hood, fabulessness!

[noeleena]

Hi,

Ill say it this way. im a member of a few women only groups. im just a woman as far as they are concerned how many know me with in those groups some 130.
mixed groups, all up about 1000 people, im just accepted , the truth is im very surprised i am accepted, why,

Well im I S born female with male mixed in just to be different. my body shape is good much like a woman of about 35 to 40, yet my down fall is i have quite masculine facial features & no make up will change that ,

yes lovely skin & quite soft , no hard lines, & even Jos does not like it as in i have what she should have, & im allmost 65, so i have disadvantages & advantages,

For myself its not about blending or passing so for get that, its about , for my self it sure is selfworth selfassurance confident knowing who i am, & content in who i am , im a strong woman in my own right,

You see for our strength it must come from with in. i dont need to be validated or be told what some one thinks i am,
i know, I dont compeat for my place in socity that was given to me in my being accepted, i did not fight for any rights percived or of right they were given as part & parcile , that of cause is with in our womens domain.

& even some men accept that as well.

A fantasy or wow you look great, to be validated you look great, well you have to remember some of those here as iv said will far surpass me in how they look yes they are guys,

yet some of my women friends have seen some of the pic's iv taken at other do's looked fantastic & my friends said so they did not know they were men till i told them they looked at me & said no way. i said yes because i know them seen them & was with them. so you see what im saying , they spent the time did every thing just right, some cool pic's i can tell you, against them i dont stand a chance or here for that matter.

Yet im a female / woman , not a dresser or trans, so there you are some of us are different & we can use what we have ,
its about work from with in then outward . ill be staying with the inward im comforable with that, as for my outside,

yes well ill dress nicely & thats about all i can do. i do better behind the camara not so in front, okay,

...noeleena...

[Cheryl T]

Passing is something that perhaps 1% of us could achieve. For the rest of us it's all about attitude. Like they tell the runway models "You have to own it".
It's about confidence in yourself and who you are and the inner contentment that you belong where you are just as much as anyone else. If you are respectful of others, happy with who you are it will show and people will accept you. In my opinion that is what it's all about for the vast majority of us.

[Aprilrain]

Passing as a genetic male is very difficult which is why god invented FFS

[NCAmazon]

There's a newbie in the CD section asking this question and every single respondent has told her she totally passes, despite obvious beard shadow and sketchy eye makeup. She looks like a lot of fun to party with but she is clearly a beginner and clearly does not pass even in her choice of pics. Yet not a single person who commented gave any constructive critique. Only rah rah you look great.

What is the purpose of not even being a little bit real? Why tell somebody they can pass when we know that it's nearly impossible to do? I didn't comment in her thread because I didn't want to be "mean", but around here that seems to be synonymous with honest.

There are much more powerful effective ways for the person to phrase the question. Instead could they ask

What can I do to de-emphasize my more masculine features for a more fem appearance? What alternative suggestions do people have to make my makeup have a more natural feminine appeal? Does this wig/hairstyle give me a natural appearance ?

People could respond not with comments like "You have man in dress all over you" but "Try more softer hair banges" etc etc.

[arbon]

The do I pass threads - they are kind of useless, unless they are phrased in a way to invite constrictive, honest criticism and advice on how to improve.

It is nice to receive compliments, it is uplifting. But when people say I pass - I say spend a day in my shoes and then see if you think that is really true. Even out of town where people don't know me people will realize what I am.

Its just the way it is.

I have met a couple trans women I would have never guessed were trans - at the support group I go to sometimes - both of them I thought were SO's, there to support their partners.

There are some on this site I think pass perfectly, at least judging by their pictures. But they are few. A lot of younger people I think do.

There was one time I was out with a few other trans women and one ordered an alcoholic drink and was asked for ID, which had her male picture and name, and she acted like it was a big deal that the waitress was going to realize what she was, says to the waitress "well this is going to be a shock but here it is", - I love her, but I was surprised that she thought she passed, especially with a group of us.

Here is something interesting to - I know one GG, who can pass as Trans. My wife thought she was, when I met her I thought she was to, and a lot of other people have thought that to and have asked us if she is. Don't think she is to thrilled about it though. She is really very beautiful, but she has some masculine features that some people pick up on, and question.

[Kate Simmons]

We create our own reality Inna. Why should we settle for anything less? Curiously, yesterday I was searching on the net for famous TS women. April Ashley, Dana International, Tula and even Renee Richards to name a few, and of course Christine. They passed with flying colors and so do you my friend. We are who we believe we are.:)

[Jorja]

Isn't passing something you do when driving a car?

[Nicole Erin]

Isn't passing something you do when driving a car?
Well yeah but that is not the main thing -
Passing is the nice way to put it when someone kicks the bucket

[Jorja]

Well yeah but that is not the main thing -
Passing is the nice way to put it when someone kicks the bucket

Of course if you are a quarterback you are expected to pass.

[Stephenie S]

Pass, shmass. I hate that word.

Comment overheard: "OMG! Look at that woman over there. She really looks like a guy!"

There are two KEY words in this quote. "woman" and "she".

It's just a fact that some women carry around pretty masculine gender markers. I am one myself. But a woman knows she is a woman. She never worries about "passing", ever. It's just not an issue. She's a woman.

Auntie Stephenie

[Tara D. Rose]

Of course if you are a quarterback you are expected to pass.QUOTE=Jorja;2903638]Isn't passing something you do when driving a car?[/QUOTE]


tehe, 'lol, ha ha, I love this one Jorja. "do I pass?" well did you pass in high school? did you pass the torch, did you pass the buck? Did you pass the 8th grade?

Anyway, I want to say something serious. Back almost 3 years ago, when I was telling my new wife "everything",,,it did take days and weeks. This thread reminds me of one thing I told her. I told her, "Honey my love, once we get everything I need to become Tara again. And you see Tara for the very first time, and I know you will think I'm suppossed to be a beautiful woman because you think I am a very gorgious and handsome as a man that I should be the very same as a woman. Honey, when you look upon Tara for the very first time next Saturday evening, and when I lovingly share this with you, it's not how I look, but it's about how I feel inside, and I do all I can do to bring that part out, and the reflection of the woman within ,you will see. Though I may not be passable, but it's about talking to me and seeing me in my other side. She told me on that first night, she walked up to me and said, "You're beautiful" She could see, the difference in my face that she had come to know quite well, she heard the different voice, she saw a person she thought she would know. Tara was quite strange to her. It was like night and day to her by way of how she looked upon me as the man she had come to know, and now the gaze in my eyes, and voice, the walk and talk. She met a new person that night. It has taken some time, but now she knows the two people are like the desert and the mountains. But it wasn't totally about passing visually, it was with her seeing me through her eyes of how I felt and presented. maybe sometimes love can see the beauty or see the woman within,maybe.
Tara

[Noemi]

@Inna: I often question my reasoning behind transitioning. Not because I question whether or not I have GID; that's a given. And not because I want to live as a man; It's been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm not a man, I'm not built like a man (birth deformity; no putter) I ask myself why I'd want to work 5 times as hard as everybody else for 1/3 of what they were handed in this life.

Then I have to deal with the stupid looks and hushed remarks from others. To me, it stands to reason that transitioning is a fantasy and I'm wasting my time.

Some days, I'm not sure why I go on. But I do. I guess it's because I have so many true friends who love me and care for me. I still have my mom, who considers me to be Her daughter, and treats me as such.

And do I pass? In their eyes I do. But they see inside of me. They just ignore the facade.

And I'm glad that they do.:) Because reality is brutal, ugly and cruel. Reality says that I'm neither a man nor a woman. And I'm not ready to face that reality, because I'm not capable of living my life in between genders.
Not anymore.

:Miki.

You pass for me.
I think you are really cute. And have allot to say, to offer everyone and give it freely.
Hug Hug and Hug

♥♥♥
Noemi

[WifeofWrenchette]

I've come across several FtM and MtF people recently that I did NOT know were TS until I was told and even then I could not tell.

People can and do "pass" and others don't. The ones that don't, for the most part, are accepted as who they are.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Pass the salt & pepper please!

[BRANDYJ]

When I was single,I made passes at petty GG's all the time. On a serious note, when I see those threads asking if they pass, I will not lie and say go for it, or you look marvelous, or any other encouraging words. I simply do not respond unless I honestly think they can pass. Why lie? Why say they do when they don't. I assume they want honest responses.

[Rebecca Star]

On a serious note, when I see those threads asking if they pass, I will not lie and say go for it, or you look marvelous, or any other encouraging words. I simply do not respond unless I honestly think they can pass. Why lie? Why say they do when they don't. I assume they want honest responses.

My philosophy is, if someone asks if they're passable and they're going out in public then I'll tell them the truth. If they're just dressing at home then telling a white lie isn't going to affect the end result, is it? Really though, in relation to a CD who generally ask these questions, what I or anyone else says shouldn't be a factor. If they want to go out then just do it.

Reality of it is, there is a very small minority of guys who pass 100% en femme.

[michelleinktown]

I pass to some people and to others I don't. I don't give a @#$# I am a beautiful trans person who was born this way and put on this earth this way for a reason. Yesterday while at Wal-Mart I had a security dude approach me in the womens section asking me if there was something he could help me with. WTF, I told him "no that I have found everything I am looking for, is there something I could help you with? He left with his tail between his legs, big tough security dude.