Help 4 Families

[StephanieJ]

Greeting everyone! I've been following this site for a couple months now, but this is my first post. I want to begin by thanking everyone for your honesty and kindness in the way you all treat one another. I'll admit that it took me off guard as I've come across this forum in the past and thought it a pornographic site (which I'm definitely not into!) I was pleasantly surprised to find that it's anything but that! In fact, you all have been a helpful and comforting resource to me on many occasions. It makes me proud to be part of such a caring and close-knit community and I'm elated to have good people such as yourselves to call friends.

With that said, here is a brief introduction: I've been married 18 years and have four children. I more or less came out to my wife about a month after we married and over the years my wife has been through several cycles of acceptance and rejection over my crossdressing. Sadly, we have most recently entered a phase of rejection, prompted in part by a website my sweetheart found called: help4families.com The proprietor, Denise Shick runs a ministry for families of crossdressers. Apparently her father was not a very nice man who also happened to engage in crossdressing.

I'll let you judge for yourselves, but I can't help but wonder if Mrs. Shick's efforts might be more than a little misguided, if not homophobic and hateful.

Literature from the site basically instructs women that if they find their men crossdressing that they need to ask them to leave the house immediately and not return until they have rid themselves of all clothing, stopped shaving their bodies, cut all ties with transgender support groups and allowed the wife total access to all internet surfing, e-mail and telephone.

I can certainly understand that Mrs. Shick is trying to be helpful and supportive to wives in trauma over finding out for the first time about their husband's hidden secret. (That's why we don't keep secrets, right ladies?) And I in no wise underestimate the cost a crossdresser can bring to a family in emotional drain, time and actual dollars. On the other hand, having been through years of therapy, I truly believe that there is no "cure" and that crossdressing can be kept in check at a healthy level.

Has anyone else had experience with the site or any of the resources they offer? My wife wants me to join one of their support groups and I'm feeling a little uneasy about it.

[franlee]

I feel for you! I could go into biblical text and counter just about anything the Good Pastor says especially when you start jumping from new to old testaments. But this is not a forum for religion and I will reframe. But I will go so far as to give a warnning for your wife's consideration, beware of false prophets. And then I will share a little word that the only other person to actually know about my CDing besides my wife told me many years ago when she was helping me with a few thing to experiment with and build my own persona. She was in a less than good marriage, and she told me out of the blue one day that she would sure prefer her husband CD and be faithful and a good provider than the unfaithfull and macho/free spirite that he was living and sujecting her to. She went on to say that besides helping him she and he could probably be friends.
Think about that last part, and to put this in prespective she is not turned on by CDing men just open minded and loves clothes and empathised in a pure spirit. No strings attached.
If cloth being cut and sewn a certain way makes it strickly for the male or female then back 2 thousand years ago and all garments were basicly the same, how do the extremist get around that? Manufactor stick the labels on garment and decide who they are marketing to, so I suppose if the labels were switched it would be fine. They are not womens clothes if they belong to a male, they were just sold as such.

Good Luck,
Fran

[ronda]

doesn't the bible say that i was made in his image and he or she made me the way i am i did not do it my mom did not do it i was made in his imagethats all i have to say to the nay sayers Hugs Ronda

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Stephanie, No good can come from that web site that's walking into the lions den blindfolded.

[sterling12]

You are kidding us, correct? Realizing that you would no doubt call yourself a Christian, would you find anything "Christ-like" on this website? I would be intrigued to see "The Success Rate" of what (Reverend?) Shick proposes. If we could ever get at The Records, I would imagine that the eventual failure rate approaches 100%! Throw him out of The House? Make unreasonable demands? Cut off ties to friends and support?

Now that's "True Love!" So undemanding, so compassionate, so empathetic, so striving for understanding.

In Christian parlance Kid, "I think your really screwed!" Your wife, with The help of Ms Shick has presented you with a conundrum. You already know you can't quit. Under this abusive regime, with absolutely no "give" to it, it's likely it will make you crazy!

You want to hang on for a while and "try," I wouldn't blame you. Many of us are devoted to "lost causes," just ask Don Quixote. But, you may be postponing The Inevitable. I don't think we have A Solution for you, and I'm sorry to say it. Love is a two-way street! It requires a lot of "give and take." It doesn't work when one party does all the giving, and the other gets all The Take.

You join Ms Shick's "Support Group," they are going to have you howling in Tongues just ASAP, but worse yet, you'll be living A Lie. I repeat, I am very sorry for you.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[SerenityQueen]

I am dumbfounded that a group like this even exist. To be so narrow minded and oblivious.

In my opinion I would stay away. There is nothing for you at this group except for suffering and pain.

[Vickie_CDTV]

You might want to remind your wife of the old saying "don't believe everything you read." Getting involved with a group like this is a waste of time, for both of you.

[Kate Simmons]

I'm thinking that anything like this that rubs you the wrong way from the get go would no doubt end up being counter productive to your relationship. Sometimes it's just better to have more one on one honest heartfelt discussions about feelings with the actual SO than getting a third party (who may or may not have it's own agenda) involved. Just my opinion.:)

[Engendered]

The website you linked to makes me shudder. Using the image of a child on the main page is highly manipulative. Actually it's used twice when you scroll down to see the cover of the "families booklet". The youtube video halfway down the page is blatently homophobic: "Did you know that gays spread aids??!?!". Whenever I think the world has grown past certain ideas, there's something on the internet that smacks me back to reality.
I have no real advice for you unfortunately. I hope your wife can come to see this as a positive, rather than a negative thing. That website will only serve to make things worse though. :(

[melissakozak]

That website offers false hope for a 'cure' from crossdressing. Let me check out the problem here: society's non-acceptance. It is a tragedy that our culture lives so rigidly in the gender binary. It is also a tragedy that we live in a society so full of contradictions. We are a culture steeped in sex, but sex is negative. I wish religion was no longer mixed with politics or sex. Religion is deeply personal, but to offer false hope for families of TG people that we can somehow see the Light is ludicrous and does more long term damage than most people realize.

[Laura912]

Ask your wife why she give credence to that particular website. One can find a website dedicated to anti anything. One would assume that she knows that just because the website agrees with a person, that does not make it legitimate. There are many here who are good parents.

[StephanieJ]

Thank you for your compassion. I didn't mean to make it a religious post, but I have to say I would love to hear the biblical smack down that Fran would give this "pastor". I also had to smile at Joanie's comment about chasing windmills like Don Quixote. I was actually in that play a couple years ago at the local community theater. (I loved it because I got to wear black tights through the entire show...)

I feel truly sorry for anyone caught in this so-called ministry. There is no viewpoint from which their approach to crossdressing makes sense. Right now I'm just avoiding the subject and hoping that something better comes along. I really wish that my wife would would consider joining this site, but that might take an act of God.

Thanks again, Love you all.

[sandra-leigh]

This is strongly related to the "ex-gay" ministries.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/19/psychiatrist-admits-gay-cure-study-flawed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/20/i-tried-to-cure-gay-people

http://www.samesame.com.au/news/international/8677/Exodus-Ex-gay-therapies-dont-work.htm


In a ‘Statement of apology by Former Exodus Leaders’ published a few years ago, Michael Bussee writes: “There were some real “changes” – but not one of the hundreds of people we counselled became straight.

“Instead, many of our clients began to fall apart – sinking deeper into patterns of guilt, anxiety and self-loathing… The message always seems to be: ‘You’re not good enough. You’re not trying hard enough. You don’t have enough faith.’”

(Exodus International was the largest of the ex-gay ministries, and one of the earliest. And it is now saying that the "therapy" does not work and never did and instead is harmful.)

Christian opposition to cross-dressing is, of course, not exactly the same as to homosexuality, but it draws closely related biblical verses and draws on the same tactics and arguments.

[STACY B]

Just Kick um out ,,,HUH,,, Well we just mite have to wait an see whos LEAVING ? LOL,,,, Some folks are just soft ,,, Last time I checked this was OUR house ? :devil: Ohhhhhh yea before I forget ,,,PURGE ,,,,,, Thats what was so ,,Funny,,,Funny,,,Funny,,, >>>>>>>> Purge PLEASE !! I aint getting rid of all my Killer clothes ,,,lol, If ya touch my shoes Im calling the COPS ! NOW,,,,:D:D

[Tracii G]

H4F is a front group for one person trying to spew hate.No thanks.Christian? sure doesn't read that way to me.
People seem to think getting a fancy letterhead or starting a blog makes them an expert and that we all should listen to them plus give credence to their opinions.

[almisami]

I'd probably join sucha group to undermine it form the inside, but I'd usually get escorted out after three or four well thought out rebuttals. The rationality of these people is dubious at best and I'd only approach to warn others.

[StephanieJ]

Holy shiz, Your reply sandra-leigh is both timely and brilliant. I didn't mention earlier that my wife is a licensed therapist who specializes in same sex attraction... How's that for a conundrum? I'm going to have to find a way to tactfully weave those articles into the conversation.

I agree that gender identity bears a striking resemblance to SSA even though it's roots are probably not the same. After all, aren't we the "T" in the LGBT community? Nevertheless, I feel like such a minority. Even in my town of about 100k people, I know of dozen therapists who work with the LGB population. Even though some of their efforts may misguided, at least they are out there talking about it and starting support groups. But for crossdressers there is NOTHING. No specialists, no support groups nada, zip, zilch! That's why finding this site is such a blessing. It truly is a rare gem.

[Eryn]

I suggest that you consider all opinions, but be very suspicious of those who demand that you close your mind arbitrarily to all opinions but theirs. Why are they afraid of you being fully informed?

[Darla]

Whoa! Wait a second! The plot thickens.
So your wife is a gender therapist, counsels LGBT folks, and she's advocating that this site will work to both your benefit? Does she see the inherent contradiction?

I don't mean to be harsh, but is her view that LGBT folks are able to be counseled out of their errant ways, or does she allow them the freedom to deal with the stages of acceptance, through to a healthy view of their lives? I would hope that she would do the same to her husband of many years.

Am I reading this wrong?

Darla

[StephanieJ]

No Darla, you read it correctly. My wife offers so called reparative therapy to people with unwanted same sex attraction (SSA). The method is exactly as you said


she allows them the freedom to deal with the stages of acceptance, through to a healthy view of their lives.

And yes, I too would hope that she would do the same to her husband of many years. Problem is that it's often easier to work on someone else's problems than it is your own.

[Darla]

Hey Stephanie

I'm so sorry if my post came across as insensitive, and even more sorry that I seem to have read the situation correctly.

I can't imagine how hard it is for you to live as you do in a situation where you not only have an unaccepting spouse, but one who has the professional disposition to actively oppose your rights to accept who you are.

I have an unaccepting spouse, who although fairly hostile to my want to crossdress, sees her viewpoint as objectively narrow. She wouldn't treat a friend of hers to the same judgement that she views me with, she admits. But there's a shred of understanding.

So - you have a lot of sympathy and hugs from me. I truly hope that she sees the Hirt that it causes you, and learns to love the whole of you. She loves all of who you are now, I hope she can learn to love the parts she can't understand (just yet).

Hang in there
Darla