The REALITY of passing?

[Wildaboutheels]

People at these Forums often allude to spotting other CDers [men] "dressed as women" out in the RW. Or people you THINK might be CDers. I am only asking about men going the whole nine yards - wigs, makeup and clothing. They are doing their BEST to blend in and not be noticed. Let's just leave out people wearing very short skirts, 5 or 6 inch heels or purple hair. Clothing most would consider to be screaming for attention.

I have never noticed even ONE person in my sixty years on the planet and I think I am at least as observant as most people which brings about a few questions.

1] Are you actually LOOKING for them when out in public no matter which mode you are dressed in/as?

2] Maybe it is the place or places you are "looking" for them? Particular bars, etc.?

3] Or maybe SOMEthing gave them away? You had cause to speak to them perhaps or they were wobbling around on 2" heels?

I just find it odd that I have yet to "spot" a CDer. I think living in Florida where major skin is displayed 9 or 10 months out of the year might have something to do with it. So many body shapes and sizes of every imagineable "ratio" constantly on display.

I DO happen to know a GG with a very deep masculine voice. I am guessing most people in a tele conversation with her might not be able to tell she is female from her voice alone.

[Marleena]

IMHO nobody passes 100% of the time even if they are TS and have had FFS.

Don't judge the girls by the picture gallery. Most are all dolled up and made to look sexy. My recent set would be ready to go to an upscale restaurant etc. not a mall. Most try to blend in the real world so it's usually dressed down. Keep in mind many of the girls go to clubs that the average person won't go to (gay clubs, TG bars, etc.) Keep looking I've seen some Cder's out there.:)

[Jenniferathome]

I believe men are generally less observant than women. This would explain why I can't find something in a drawer that my wife can easily retrieve. My wife has told me of serval occasions where she saw a crossdresser. I have Noticed other crossdressers only on two occasions I can recall. They were dressed appropriately and yet quite unmistakable as men.

The fact that you haven't seen any others out in the world might be explained by sheer probability, there are few of us and even fewer venture out and observation skills.

[Stephenie S]

"IMHO nobody passes 100% of the time even if they are TS and have had FFS."

But you don't see those who do. There are several on this forum, actually.

S

[Karren H]

hell most people have hard time just passing as humans......

[Marleena]

"IMHO nobody passes 100% of the time even if they are TS and have had FFS."

But you don't see those who do. There are several on this forum, actually.

S

Nice..I have seen "I got read comments". So it is possible for 100% passability. I learned something today.:)

[kimdl93]

The only place where I was fairly confident that the people I "read" were CDrs was at a local gay club during a drag show. Some of us showed up, of course, and a few were clearly less skilled in presentation than others, and so were pretty easy reads. (I'd be a pretty easy read, I think, given that I'm 6'2" and a bit too thick.)

The only other time that I was pretty sure I spotted a fellow CDr was at the local HEB grocery. She was older and taller than me, painfully thin, with quite angular facial features...and no shape whatsoever...straight as a board. Plus she wore what I thought was a really inappropriate outfit for grocery shopping...kinda a shiny gold top with black silk slacks....looked like something an older woman might wear to a holiday party, but not the produce section. My wife spotted her, and said "Bless her heart" and that's the attitude I tried to have about her too. Whether male or female, she was minding her own business and enjoying a day out in what might have been her favorite outfit.

[Lorileah]

I believe men are generally less observant than women
Usually unless it is a car or boat or sporting event :) I know that at least twice at the mall my GF noticed a celebrity and I totally missed it. One was John Elway! How could I miss that!?!

I agree in real life men have an agenda. A mission and looking for CDers isn't on the list. 'We" notice more discrepancies because we are tuned. I have seen CDs out in public. Usually it is something small that grabs my attention (usually the fearful prey attitude where they are all hunkered down and and eyes darting and walking as fast as they can). Men and women come in all sorts of different packages. Unless it is something blatant, we all have our own agenda and unless someone interferes with our agenda we don't really care.

[Jacqueline Winona]

I don't think many of us pass very often, and agree with Kim, assuming people are paying attention. I'm not one who pays a lot of attention to people in public spaces, I'm usually in too much of a hurry or am busy thinking about something else to notice much about anyone. I have noticed CD's many times, usually it's not just one thing, but rather the feeling that something is a little different about that gal that gives it away, whether its the jaw, facial structure, wig riding too high or low, shoudlers, etc. It's just really hard for a CD to overcome everything about natural body or facical structure.

[Barbara Ella]

I have to say that in our smallish town, and for the short time I have even been aware of crossdressing, I do not feel I have identified a CD. I also am probably too busy most of the time. When in restaurants, where there is time to study people, I do notice features and clothes as i am always on the lookout now, not for a fellow CD er, but for hints about what is going on in the real world. So i do notice that GGs come in all sizes and shapes, and any of us could fit right in, given the right moment and place, even with some of those male features that cant be totally hidden. Passing. no. Fitting in and functioning, yes.

Barbara

[Kate Simmons]

Oh yeah, I've seen 'em but don't pay it much mind.The truth is I have a kind of built in "CDar" as I'm empathic and can receive feelings from others. Not to mention body movements, facial expressions and gestures and mannerisms, not even talking about voice.To most observers it doesn't seem to be an issue anyway, other that the occasional chuckle or knowing smile.:)

[almisami]

I can pass until I open my mouth. My speech tone and pattern are just too alien to sound particularly feminine.

[bridget thronton]

My understanding of how people perceive things is they quickly pick up pieces of things they see and fill in the blanks to complete something AI folks call a frame - unless something is glaring out of place people stick with their frame selection as long as possible before trying a new one (this is why we misread words or why two people's descriptions of things they are not sure of differ wildly form one another and why suppose we get mam'd sometimes even endrab)

[Tess]

I'm not sure if the people I've seen have been TS or CD, but I've seen several. It isn't that I'm looking for them but that they usually stand out. Maybe I've got "CDar" too. Generally the giveaway has been height and masculine features. That leads to a second glance where other things stand out. It doesn't happen often but I can recall at least a half dozen over the last several years.

[Princess Chantal]

Before I became engaged in the local tg community, there was a bus driver that stood out for some reason. She looked, sounded and acted feminine (so she did "pass") but there was something that just had me intrigued by her every time I hopped on the bus she was driving. Lo and behold there she was at the crossdressing social group's meeting (was my second meeting). She was a transsexual that had her operation back in the 80's. Perhaps it was somewhat a sixth sense that triggered my interest.

[Wildaboutheels]

So it would appear that visual cues were primarily the "dead giveaways" for those of you who noticed other CDers?

No one was "fooled" UNTIL they heard the CDers voice?

[Jodi]

Over the years, I have spotted a number of cd's out and about. The usual giveaway is that they are overdressed for the venue. The other big giveaway is how they stand, walk, their gestures, lack of eyecontact, and lack of a smile.

These are unable to be noted in pix on this MB.

Jodi

[suchacutie]

Well, it's not like I run into a sister every day! :)

I've only run into 3 that I recognized. All three passed perfectly well. It just so happened that I was in a line in Starbucks with one, in a line at a grocery store with one, and on a train with the third, so I had a lot of time to notice things. If I hadn't had the time, I would have never realized who it was in front of me.

It may be that I run into our sisters all the time, but just don't notice them.

Oh, and I'm not counting those who I might see in a bar scene that is friendly to TGs.

tina

[Kaz]

I spot them in 'fits and starts' (never knew what that meant! :))... I haven't clocked one of us for nearly a year (maybe that is a function of the British weather?)... but when I do it is because the dress is inappropriate, or the mannerisms are wrong... TBH they would have to do something to draw my attention... so they stand out as being different... And now we are into the blending argument...

I am also talking about street life not night life!

[michellecd9999]

I think there are some that will pass and some that will not. Let's face it, if you are over 6ft and built like a guy, it will be difficult to pass. The smaller in height and weight, the more you will blend in. Then there are the clothes. If you are dressed for the location and event, you will blend in better. If you dress too "fancy" or too sloppy, you will be read. Also, some will pass at a distance but not up close due to beard shadow (even with heavy makeup, which is another giveaway!). I have been out only a few times with some local CDs and TG/TS and some passed, some did not. I think usually I spot a CDer because they are wearing panty hose or hosery in the hot weather when no GG will wear them or 4" heels to shop in!

[Darline]

It doesn't seem to me about dressing or doing one's makeup or hair that can be a give away as much as attitude. At first a person may give me that look, "That's a guy." but when I let my personality take charge they change their mind.

[Eryn]

Of course I'm looking for other CDers when I am out and about! Anybody who is tall, mannish of build, deep voiced, etc. gets special, but inobtrusive, scrutiny.

For all my looking I've never been 100% certain that the person I'm observing is not a GG. I might say 90% certain, but I know a number of GGs who would also rate that appraisal if I did not know them very well.

Now, the ordinary person on the street isn't thinking the way that I do. They aren't evaluating every woman over 5'10" as a potential crossdresser. They go with their initial impression of gender until they are presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That assumption, not perfection, is what allows even 5'14" girls like me to do what we like to do.

[Badtranny]

Nice..I have seen "I got read comments". So it is possible for 100% passability. I learned something today.:)

Yes I believe it's totally possible, just extremely difficult to get there.

Passing 100% is like my Mt Midoriyami. Seemingly impossible but totally doable with enough effort and commitment. I believe I'm roughly a year away from my goal and I'm optimistic if not patient.

[Lorileah]

Passing 100% is like my Mt Midoriyami.
American Ninja TS :) Watch those swinging balls :)

[sandra-leigh]

I see them from time to time. Drug stores. Walking down the street. Attending a local arts event.

I am not considered observant.

There are, though, on the order of 125 transgender or TS individuals currently being treated at the local clinic, which closed its waiting list when it got to 53 people, and I know of other people who are waiting for the list to re-open again. So that's a good 200 in treatment or wanting to be. Based on statistical studies, this city probably has a good 1000+ more out there. And that's not the "just for fun" cross-dressers.

[Badtranny]

Watch those swinging balls :)

I don't have any, but I sure wouldn't mind watching some. Up close.

[AllieSF]

Since I am a late starter I don't remember ever seeing a CD before I started, i.e. that means if I ever saw one or more before, I do not remember it because it was not important to me. Now that I am dressing and going out all the time, my "Tdar" is now up and working. Living in the San Francisco area, I now see some every once in awhile. I think that the lack of overall sitings may be due to the fact that even though there are a lot of CD's and TS's on this planet, not many of them, especially on the CD side, are really out there to ever be seen. For me that is a good sign that more of us should be out there at every opportunity that we have.

[noeleena]

Hi,

In our community of under 5,000 people iv yet to see any dressers or trans, im involved with many people here the groups im a member of is a 1000,

Our next town has Oamaru, 1 / 2 an hour away 15,000 people iv heard of two. next town Timaru 1 / 2 an hour away as well 38,000, i know of one dresser heard of two trans & an other two dressers,,

This is over 15 years, & im quite well known in all three towns.

Of cause that does not mean to say there are none , just they are not out there & i have friends who know me & will let me know if they wont to make contact.

The other side i dont know of any other intersexed like my self, & im well known & seen. In the Papers net & T V

...noeleena...,

[linda allen]

I saw a woman once in a CVS in the mall who I'm quite sure was a crossdresser. She was asking for makeup help at the counter and the young girl working there wasn't giving any. This was many years ago, before the popularity of the Intenet, youtube, etc.

I've seen one or two women in public who might have been crossdressers, but being one myself, I'm not going to be so rude as to stare or follow them.

[Sophie_C]

People at these Forums often allude to spotting other CDers [men] "dressed as women" out in the RW. Or people you THINK might be CDers. I am only asking about men going the whole nine yards - wigs, makeup and clothing. They are doing their BEST to blend in and not be noticed. Let's just leave out people wearing very short skirts, 5 or 6 inch heels or purple hair. Clothing most would consider to be screaming for attention.

I have never noticed even ONE person in my sixty years on the planet and I think I am at least as observant as most people which brings about a few questions.

1] Are you actually LOOKING for them when out in public no matter which mode you are dressed in/as?

2] Maybe it is the place or places you are "looking" for them? Particular bars, etc.?

3] Or maybe SOMEthing gave them away? You had cause to speak to them perhaps or they were wobbling around on 2" heels?

I just find it odd that I have yet to "spot" a CDer. I think living in Florida where major skin is displayed 9 or 10 months out of the year might have something to do with it. So many body shapes and sizes of every imagineable "ratio" constantly on display.

I DO happen to know a GG with a very deep masculine voice. I am guessing most people in a tele conversation with her might not be able to tell she is female from her voice alone.

Hello wild, not to be hard on you, but just because you can't clock TS/TV/CD/TG people, doesn't mean the vast majority of the world can. The only people I believe with a RARE chance of truly "passing" are those who transition fully prior to puberty, having no testosterone ravage their body, and even with that, it's maybe a 50/50 chance. Even the youngest transitioner in the world, Kim Petras, has something a bit odd about her jawline.

Why so? Because hormones affect every inch/cm of your body, from your head to your toes, and every day you have hormones that are changing it to look the opposite of what you're attempting to present, these subtle differences stand out in every person's minds, since as human beings, our minds are evolved to tell the difference in genders, even at up to nearly half a mile away.

Now, most people are too much into their own selves and their own lives to care, and society has come a long way, hence the reason most people don't register every person who crosses them on the street, and even if they do, they more often exhibit tolerance (or just don't want to make the effort otherwise), but that doesn't change a thing I said.

I'm going to quote what I posted before to wrap up the rest of it. Please watch the video:


ClosetCD, you're really not taking the right perspective on this. For most girls to truly pass (especially from an OCD-perspective), you need to either (A) fully transition pre-puberty, or (B) have tons of work done, including some FFS. And, even with that, there may be unchangeable things like hand size which you can't undo. So, unless you're willing to go all the way, accept that you'll be read as a "tranny" and just own it. Don't apologize, just be yourself, feminine as you are, and as open and educational as ever.

I really wish "My Transsexual Summer (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/my-transsexual-summer/)" was fully online, but the episode where they go to the pub is the BEST example I have ever seen of doing this right. When they go out, Donna Whitbread just owns it, tells people about being trans, rocks it out, is funny and by the end of the night even the old timers are happy and having a great time with her. THAT'S how you handle it, and that's how everything is best. Here's something that's a close second, an example of where they go bowling on the same show, and she did it pretty much in the same spirit:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VYtFP-RYvg

So, really, the REALITY of "passing" is that it's extraordinarily hard, if not impossible for most people. It is definitely 100% impossible for those people who aren't under some hormone regiment. Andrej Pejic (http://models.com/models/andrej-pejic) and Kyle Farmery (http://www.kylefarmery.com/) are the best any crossdresser can achieve, and that's with being rail-thin and lucky genetics, and still isn't "passable".

But, so what? Who cares? If you're honest and yourself, and honest to everyone around you, they won't either. OWN IT, be fine with being know as a "tranny." People are more and more aware of it and curious about it these days, than ever. And, you will find that this honesty goes a long way.

[Marleena]

Yes I believe it's totally possible, just extremely difficult to get there.

Passing 100% is like my Mt Midoriyami. Seemingly impossible but totally doable with enough effort and commitment. I believe I'm roughly a year away from my goal and I'm optimistic if not patient.

If anybody can do it you can Melissa! Judging by your avatar and postive outlook you're well on your way.:)


@ OP I never used to look for other Cder's but now that I'm taking this more serious I have seen a few. I only knew they were because I know the visual cues. One was obvious since she is most likely schizophrenic and living in a group home. Her appearance is dishevelled and she carries a doll as a child and walks the streets in a confused manner. I saw a very well dressed girl at our casino. She was very well dressed but tall, that caused me to take a better look. I saw a bit of a beard shadow that confirmed it. However she looked very good and I doubt if anybody else read her they would feel threatened or awkward around her.

[Violetgray]

So, really, the REALITY of "passing" is that it's extraordinarily hard, if not impossible for most people. It is definitely 100% impossible for those people who aren't under some hormone regiment.

Nope. Not true. I've known quite a few people who passed before hormones. Heck, I knew a woman who passed as a man who wasn't even trying to transition. And EVERYONE assumed she was a man.

[Sophie_C]

Nope. Not true. I've known quite a few people who passed before hormones. Heck, I knew a woman who passed as a man who wasn't even trying to transition. And EVERYONE assumed she was a man.


Ok, there are things in what you said:

This is the M2F forum, not the F2M forum. I've seen transmen and just severely butch women approach passability as looking very boy-ish, but that's an entirely different subject. There are ways to rock that look and pull it off better.

[Stephenie S]

But sweeties,

You don't SEE the ones who do pass 100%. They just fade into the woodwork. No body sees the ones who just blend into society.

[Badtranny]

Nope. Not true. I've known quite a few people who passed before hormones.


Well I just love Violet, but I'm afraid I have to agree with Sophie. For those that are not genetically gifted (tiny percentage which apparently includes Violet) it is indeed very difficult to pass. 90% of the people on this forum who have posted pics don't even pass in their pics!

Sophie is articulating this issue nicely, but there is nothing wrong with trying. It is always good to be the best you can be and keep getting better.

Passing as a GG for an MtF takes a full commitment. and I am talking about 100% here so in my mind, getting read once a week or even once a month is too much. (for a full timer)

[Marleena]

But sweeties,

You don't SEE the ones who do pass 100%. They just fade into the woodwork. No body sees the ones who just blend into society.

I can only wish, it must be a great feeling.:)

[Kaz]

But sweeties,

You don't SEE the ones who do pass 100%. They just fade into the woodwork. No body sees the ones who just blend into society.

I have been looking for 'us' for a few years... it is about learning... I have spotted some, but then I have spotted some 'maybe's'. I like to think that my radar is finely tuned as i 'know' what to look for... but yeah, maybe some get below the radar.

I have had days when I have not noticed anything and others when I think I have... the latter worry me to hell and I go off in a tailspin! But Melissa is also on the case... even if we fully transition, it is still a problem. We are not true genetic females and we have missed out on some pretty important formative stages in early childhood and through puberty that are so so important.

Yeah I want to pass... do I? I have some good pics to cheer myself up, but in reality? Maybe the game is about acceptance after all... the movie clip (and the series) 'My Transsexual Summer' was very inspirational, if at times unnerving!

[Cheryl T]

My wife and I were at a large local mall one Saturday shopping (I was dressed). As we strolled about I nudged her and said, "Did you see 'her'?". She asked who I meant and I told her the CD with her wife/gf that just passed us. She was oblivious to her even though she was quite obvious to me. Other people seemed not to notice which just goes to show that you don't have to "pass" to be out and about.
There were tell tale signs that I suppose are much more apparent to those of us that know.
I don't go out of my way to places that would be open to us to see other girls, but when I'm out at any time I am observing. If I see someone I won't say anything, but I will take notice. I love to see what others are wearing, their total look and their mannerisms. It is all part of my observations that help me "blend in".

[Patrice_CD]

My wife and I had visited a new church one Sunday morning and something caught my eye of one particular girl. She did pass and very well I might add but there was something about her. I kept looking at her through the service and I thought I saw her adams apple while singing and then her hands seemed to be a bit large. I wanted to walk up to her but since I was a guest I didn't. Plus that would have been rude. We have not been back to that church so I guess I'll never know.

I get lots of compliments on my mannerisms and the way I look, from friends who know me. Am I read by those who don't? I'm sure I am now and then but mostly not. My GG friends I'm out with tell me if I am read it's because I did something as my appearance doesn't shed a clue. Very rarely do I get second looks while out and about. I do dress for where I am and time of day. I even get called maam while in male mode. Last night was a prime example. My wife and I are with friends at a restaurant and when our server was taking our drink orders, she looked at me and said, "What can I get you maam?"

[Lynn Marie]

Before dressing myself, I don't think I ever "made" a CD. Didn't even know there were such people. Even dated a gal who had transitioned and didn't know until she told me. After that, I could see all the "man features" I hadn't noticed before. Just wasn't looking, I guess. Maybe it takes one to know one.

I think that most men just dismiss CDs as homely girls with deep voices and move on. They do seem to notice our legs and boobs though!

Wasn't it Lincoln who said something about fooling some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time, but not being able to fool all the people all the time.

[Wildaboutheels]

I may be wrong but I am getting the distinct impression that most here ARE looking for other CDers when out and about. I am guessing for many it is an entirely unconscious process. Unless you need to interact with someone, why would anyone deserve more than a first glance? UNLESS they are wearing something tacky, ill fitting, or is of some wild color or pattern?

Or, look extraordinarily good in something? Not very likely is it?

[kellycan27]

I must be oblivious, preoccupied or just plain looking past people. I can't remember the last time I clocked someone and I am out there quite a bit and I am in LA. ( San Francisco South). Passing 100% of the time is a lofty goal... The thing about passing is that the better one looks, the more scrutiny they are going to be under. In other words.. a good looking woman is going to garner more looks, stares and attention than say the more average woman, and unless one can pull it off flawlessly they are going to get clocked at one time or another. This is especially true when it comes to men. There are a lot of men out there that will not only look at, but will approach a woman that they find attractive. Passing is even more difficult when it's right there up close and personal. Men are notorious "girl watchers" , and they check you out from stem to stern. :heehee:

Kel

[Rebecca Star]

Generally the giveaway has been height and masculine features. That leads to a second glance where other things stand out.

If I see a tall girl (6 foot or over) when I'm out and about, I always take a second look. Not because I'm wondering if she's a CD etc...etc but the fact she differs from the norm. Though with the height of fashion (party) heels these days, a lot omre girls are looking taller...hmmm

[Bizarre Suzanne]

One can occasionally spot a CD out in public, but I have been with a few who were so good one couldn't tell unless one were very close. I wouldn't pass, simply because of my particular costume interests (fetish) and the makeup (****)...but I adore it...love the look, feel, and scent of it all! As one might imagine, I don't dress to pass...couldn't anyway given that...so I only dress indoors at home these days...have never been out to my groups dressed, altho I do know I'd be accepted...for who and what I really am...

[BLUE ORCHID]

Being a lifelong Crossdresser when ever I'm out I study people especially ladies to look at their dress and makeup style.
I've seen a few CD's out there in my lifetime

[gender_blender]

IMHO nobody passes 100% of the time even if they are TS and have had FFS.

I disagree with this statement completely. It depends on the person, how early female hormones were introduced into a male body and natural features. I started pretty early, never had body hair, and pass easily most of the time without makeup, but then again I'm not TS nor have I had surgery. It's difficult, but can be done.

[Marleena]

I disagree with this statement completely. It depends on the person, how early female hormones were introduced into a male body and natural features. I started pretty early, never had body hair, and pass easily most of the time without makeup, but then again I'm not TS nor have I had surgery. It's difficult, but can be done.

I was already corrected on this, thanks.

Scroll down a bit.:)

[audreyinalbany]

I know how stupid this sounds, but I've spotted a few cd's IRL in the past, but only if they are obviously male. Usually the thing that draws attention is the clothes---skirts too short, heels too high. I've never spotted (for absolutely sure) a cd who was trying to blend. I mean, I've run across a few 'women' who seemed awfully manly, but I just assumed they were women who were awfully manly, not cd's trying to blend. Maybe I was wrong, but , you know, never to the point where I was 100% "THAT'S A GUY"

[xdressed]

I've seen a couple of crossdressers who weren't inappropriately dressed at all, but were just simply had undeniably masculine body shapes. That's only 2 in the 20 years I've been alive that I can remember though. My mum used to work in a bank and she's mentioned countless times how a crossdresser has come in and she's read them instantly. She even said they must have real balls to go out like that lol

[Eryn]

My wife and I had visited a new church one Sunday morning and something caught my eye of one particular girl. She did pass and very well I might add but there was something about her. I kept looking at her through the service and I thought I saw her adams apple while singing...

Adam's apples are not a sure indicator of gender. Many men don't have one and some women do have one.

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/women-adams-apples

[marny]

hell most people have hard time just passing as humans......

still hilarious:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil :

[NathalieX66]

still hilarious:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil :

Yeah, right, eh?

I can pass for the most part because I'm 5'6" , and peoples' radar is off me.

But at the same time, I feel some folk are so scared to judge whether I am a man or a woman, that they let it slide and don't judge. They are simply being nice and courteous so they don't accidentally offend me.
On the other hand, some people seem so oblivious and seriously stupid and blind that they have no idea that the person they were talking to is a guy. I've had that happen often.
I like that. :)

[Julogden]

I've never been looking for CD's/TS's, and I've seen them in the course of going abut my daily business. The MTF ones I've spotted have all been dressed at least somewhat inappropriately or in the case of one FTM guy, a truck driver who periodically made deliveries to the company I used to work for, didn't diguise female traits well enough. I worked in the receiving department, so I had to interact with him, and I'm sure that he was FTM as his body shape was distinctly female, his voice was still feminine-sounding and he was wearing a really fake-looking false mustache.

On the other hand, I've met trans people, both FTM and MTF in support group settings that I would have never clocked as being trans in a million years, so there are definitely trans people who pass without any problem whatsoever.

I live in the south suburbs of Chicago, so while I am in the Chicago metropolitan area, I am nowhere near being in the big city. The town where I live is a fairly quiet, conservative, moderate-sized suburb.

I think you're possibly onto something regarding people dressing more scantily where you are in Florida. Up here we can usually wear more clothes. ;)


Adam's apples are not a sure indicator of gender. Many men don't have one and some women do have one.

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/women-adams-apples

You're right about that. I've known a couple females with huge Adam's apples, both of who have born children, so there's absolutely no question about their genetic sex. An Adam's apple is definitely not 100% reliable when it comes to determining genetic sex.

Carol

[Wildaboutheels]

One thing is for sure. Even IF one does get "clocked"...

NO one who participates at this Forum has ever died from being clocked.

I am also willing to bet that not even one person here got clocked at some point and stopped cold turkey completely from going out "dressed" again?

[Cheryl T]

Basically I've always been an "observer".
I've always watched women when I was out anywhere so that I could see what styles look good an what shapes, ages, heights, etc. I have always used this to refine my style rather than guess at what might be good for me.
As such I've seen other "girls" at times. It seems the old phrase "takes one to know one" is sometimes true as the other person may be quite under the radar to the general public but the "tells" are quite visible to those of us who know what they are. This is handy as well as it tells me what things I need to control/disguise to better go about my business as just one of the girls.

[PretzelGirl]

I think it will vary among us. Some people just don't turn their attention to others around them and others soak it all in. It seems when I do notice a CD, it starts with a reaction to something in my peripheral vision that causes me to look over their way. So subconsciously I must be picking up some kind of (even subtle) clues. Sometimes it is just timing like last weekend I went to an Ulta and from about 15 feet away, I could tell a lady getting a make-over was CD. I just happened to be looking before anything was applied so the shadow was easier to pick up. I hope she had a blast. She had the best working on her.

[Tina B.]

One thing is for sure. Even IF one does get "clocked"...

NO one who participates at this Forum has ever died from being clocked.

I am also willing to bet that not even one person here got clocked at some point and stopped cold turkey completely from going out "dressed" again?

Well you would be wrong! I was clocked some years ago by two 15 year old girls in a drug store, they stalked me trough out the store, I was so rattled by it, I went home, and have been there every since, I found out, I don't like being read!
I have seen others out there a time or two, and yes it was the visual that gave them away. But then the last one wasn't trying very hard to pass.
Tina B.

[victoriamwilliams1]

To answer your question I am almost 7ft tall and yes I pass as a woman in public now! Tall women do exist in the world and for me I found that in the early years I did not have that attitude that said I am a woman! When I say attitude I mean I did not think of myself as a woman when I was out and about town! I had several events that basically let me know I was now accepted as a woman and at first I was like ok what is going on!

Now on noticing other TGs, I have walked past a few in my 42 years and some of them know me as Victoria and I stood either behind them or held the door open for them and I was in guy mode! Like I said a few of them know me from online and they had no clue that I myself knew them. I do not look for them and I know that some are so blended till you would never know. I am part of a support group and most of us you would never know if we are GG or TG. I stopped worrying about my height so I consider myself as passable.

My suggestion to anyone going out to answer #3 is not to go out in the world till you have basic knowledge of walking in heels and how to put yourself together as a woman! Your voice is not as big of a deal as we think! I know some women who as GGs and their voice is deeper than my guy voice! I know some men who are not TG I think and have female voices!

Now some say nobody passes 100% and that's true however I have seen a few GGs who people thought where men! My mother had to deal with it because of her height and one time she was 8 months pregnant! So to be honest what is truly passable other than ones view of what is Male and what is female! We all have this view of what each gender looks like and if anyone expresses their gender slightly different people get confused. Look at female body builders as an example!

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I guess I'm a little biased, but in recent years, I've stopped caring about passing and more on being "me". Sure, I can get all dolled up and lbend in dairly easily, but then Ive got the right cheekbones, I'm half woman to begin with, and I try not to stand out unless its for a show.
When you really get past all the worries of passing and start living... you actually begin to pass better and people don't pay attention to you ;)

my two cents...

[susie evans]

does it realy matter i'am not even sure what planet i'am most of the time i just like being multi talented

susie

[Beverley Sims]

The more you go out and blend in the less you think about passing except on the highway driving a car.:)