Trying to accept that I am a transsexual [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

steph1964

07-21-2012, 07:35 PM

The last couple of months have been very difficult and depressing for me, as I have been coming to terms that I am a transsexual, not a crossdresser. I have memories of wanting to be a girl when I was 4 years old, and these feelings never went away, despite how hard I tried to suppress them. I lived most of my life full of guilt and shame and it wasn’t until a year ago that I joined this site, started seeing a counselor and began to accept what I was; a crossdresser. I told my wife at that time about my crossdressing but assured her that I wasn’t gay, and did not want to transition. I only thought about when I would get a chance to dress up, but didn’t allow myself to process my feelings.

I reached the point about two months ago, when I could no longer keep my feelings in check, and I started soul searching. Once I allowed myself to feel through this process and reflect on my past, it became quickly obvious that I have always wanted to be female and I don’t remember a day when I haven’t felt this way. In the past two months my wife and I have been struggling to process this, both of us have been depressed and often in tears. We have been married for 23 years, and are best friends. I have been fighting to accept my life as it is, because I have a great marriage and a great life, yet the more I fight the more depressed I become. Why would I want to give all that I have up? And yet I am finding it more difficult every day to continue to lead my normal life. We have gone out with me dressed, something that we had never done in the past, trying to find the place where we could both be happy, but I now fear that there isn’t such a place. She said that she can’t stay married if I am full time, because she needs her husband, and I understand that.

Recently I told my counselor that I felt that I was transsexual and she told me that she knew that I was after the first couple of visits, but didn’t tell me because I needed to come to this realization on my own. During my meeting with her yesterday, she told me that I was fighting hard to keep from going down this road, but she was concerned because I was becoming more depressed and worried what would happen to me if I chose to ignore it. We did discuss what would happen if I wanted to transition and she told me that she would write me a letter for hormones if that is what I decided.

My wife’s family and our close friends know. My family live out of state so we haven’t told them yet. Everyone has been accepting, although no one has seen me dressed. But all our friends are actually my wife’s friends and their husbands, so I won’t have much support if I do chose to transition.

Pamela Kay

07-21-2012, 08:10 PM

Jorja

07-21-2012, 08:26 PM

Coming to the realization and accepting that you are transsexual (in my opinion) is only half the battle. I mean it is a good thing that you have done that much. It is what you do from here on that makes all the difference. Right now there are only two people that can make the decision about you. You and your wife.

You need to do what is best for you as you are becoming more depressed and worried about it. You might try the HRT and see if it will help with these feelings. Ultimately, I think you know what the solution is.

You may not have the physical support of another human right next to you but take the time to look around. You have hundreds of us right here in this section of the forum that totally understand and support you in everything you are doing.

Good Luck and keep us posted to what is going on with you.

LisaMallon

07-21-2012, 08:27 PM

Steph, very similar to my story as well.
The only thing I can add is that when I finally accepted it (after running away for 45+ years) I actually started to feel a bit better, which I really hope will be the same for you.

Whatever you decide, whatever path you take, you are not alone.

KellyJameson

07-22-2012, 12:11 AM

Once you feel that feeling that goes back to the beginning and know what it means it is like turning a corner and it becomes a knowing that cannot become unknown even if you want it to.

For me shame was always the problem, I was severly transphobic because of the methods used to try and change me so I would be "normal" and my life became a holding pattern like an airplane circling and never being permitted to land so I wound flirt with the trans community but would not be a part of it from the internalized shame.

It was like being born into a family that is inside the house but you sit outside and listen to the conversations trying to feel included because you know you are related but never participating.

That was a dangerous mistake on my part because I isolated myself, stay connected to others.

I hope you will be able to keep those relationships held most dear to you even if they must change in form because there are many reasons and ways to love but all love is built with memories paid in time and time is not something we get back.

I always remember that the gender dysphoria chose me, I did not choose it and this helps me let go of the guilt. I do what I can to protect others from me trying to be me but I will not stop being me just like I would not stop breathing to leave more oxygen in the world for others.

In my opinion only those who experience GID know the reality of it so I ignore those who have not experienced it if they say you have a choice and can ignore it

Each person has their own relationship with "GID and life" because each persons relationship with themselves is unique but nobody is "unable" to have a relationship with themselves so each of us must find ways to live with ourselves and living identity is living life.

It is a scary path to walk but you are not alone and others will be there to guide and protect you.

Ann Thomas

07-22-2012, 01:30 AM

Hi Steph,
I hesitate to write because I've never posted in this part of the forum before, but can really see some parallels in my life with what you're going through. I'm a couple years older than you, have a wife, kids, etc, but it sounds like I'm only a few steps ahead of you. I have the same crossroads to face currently. I haven't been able to afford a counselor, but I have been able to attend a support group meeting for transsexuals locally. So, I've faced these issues in the group, and realize the sensitivity of these issues.

I have not considered myself a crossdresser for some time, to some extent or another. But, to make a long story short, I also came to the conclusion I'm not transsexual either. I'm kind of somewhere in the middle. I've used the term Transgender most of the time because nothing seemed to squarely fit.

I want to live female 100% of the time, but I don't want SRS. I want to grow breasts, and I want the beautiful skin, and my bald spot grown back in. I want my hair reasonably longer and styled in a female way. But no more than that, at this point.

I had a hard time trying to figure out what I was, how to define my goals. They've changed over the years, like yours have, in fact starting out nearly identical to what you described at first when you came out to your wife. In the support group, it's been discussed at length about people making too quick of a decision to go all the way with it and end up regretting it later, with usually horrible consequences. I want to go slowly and make decisions as I evaluate and simulate in my mind what it would be like, all the while staying focused on living life as it is right now.

To cut to the point, I'm taking a college class this summer in Sociology, and in it they brought up the Muxes in Mexico. They are part of a tribe that existed before the Spaniards came, and they are what we might call Transgendered, but are a bit different than what we see here. They are historically considered a third sex, and are rather fluid in how that is expressed from one Muxe to another. As they have become more westernized, they are struggling with the same issues we are, but they appear to have a bit more latitude to settle into than what we have here, culturally.

In watching a CNN story about it (you can find the 3 links to the 3 parts at the bottom of the Wikipedia article about the Muxe), I noticed one comment that really struck me. One said she is fine with dressing female but still being male - she doesn't try to be passable, but accepts that she is recognized as Muxe.

That is how I feel, and how I am when I go out. I don't attempt to be passable. I am simply doing all the things a woman would do, the clothes, the hair, the makeup (sometimes and to varying degrees), the mannerisms. But still I am clearly male, fighting 5 o-clock shadow, having male mannerisms, and so on. I still use male restrooms, but avoid using crowded ones.

I still have my male functionality, which pleases my wife, and we've not yet crossed the bridge of how much I can live female when she is with me. (We are currently living separately although married.) So, I've established my work image as being that of dressing female (difficult in a blue collar job, but doable when I dress the way a blue collar female employee would.) That gives me a large chunk of my waking hours in the mode I wish to be in. I do not wish to do breast augmentation, but will be happy with how they grow out on their own, if much. In the meantime I can use gel inserts or breastforms. If they get too large, I can bind them when I need to be in male mode for my wife in public.

I had already decided on how I wanted to be and have been stable on that now for at least a year, before I came across the information about the Muxe. So I feel I've reached that conclusion on my own, and feel validated by what I've recently learned.

I realize I am different from both the crossdressers and the transsexuals, finding a place I feel happy with somewhere in the middle. We'll see what the future holds, but for now I'm not fighting the depression and anxieties I fought for years, like you are in the middle of. For now anyway, the tears are behind me, and I feel confident in my future.

Hope that helps. I know this is long, and there's far more to the story, which could explain some of the gaps in my reasoning.

I truly hope the best for you. I'm here if you need someone to talk with.

Hugs,
Ann

Raquel June

07-22-2012, 03:09 AM

... In the past two months my wife and I have been struggling to process this, both of us have been depressed and often in tears. We have been married for 23 years, and are best friends. I have been fighting to accept my life as it is, because I have a great marriage and a great life, yet the more I fight the more depressed I become. Why would I want to give all that I have up? And yet I am finding it more difficult every day to continue to lead my normal life. We have gone out with me dressed, something that we had never done in the past, trying to find the place where we could both be happy, but I now fear that there isn't such a place. She said that she can't stay married if I am full time, because she needs her husband, and I understand that.

You sound pretty rational. And I'm sure you and your therapist is right that you're TS. But you still have to make sure you don't focus on that too much and blame it for all your depression. I've seen a lot of people who are depressed for plenty reasons and they have a lot of stuff to deal with in their life, but they decide it's all about their gender issues. And then when they transition and their life isn't magically fixed they freak out. I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying it's something to keep in mind, because transition makes your life more stressful, not less stressful -- although it's still something most of us decide we have to do. It's just important to try to deal with as many other stresses as you can first to prepare for that big one. And it's definitely a big one. I think the decision to transition is about the only thing I would rank above the decision of who to marry as far as important events in your life. But it should be a wonderful thing, starting your real life.

It's cool that your wife has the clarity to say she can't stay married if you transition. I think a lot of wives have that "love conquers all" optimism then after the transition realize that they're just not lesbians. And a lot of TS women think it's no big deal because they want to maintain the same relationship so what's the problem? And this is something that I don't really hear people talk about, but that's a whole other transition you have to go through if you're a transwoman attracted to women. You have to transition from being seen as a straight guy to being seen as a homosexual woman. And for me that was awfully awkward, because I had prepared in my mind for a long time for the gender transition, but I wasn't prepared to be publicly gay. It's all the little things -- like the looks people give you when they see a grown woman holding another grown woman's hand in public.But maybe that's just me.

Of course, if your wife doesn't want to be married to a woman, she'll eventually figure out that she already is.

If you're not sure about the transition ... well ... I think what finally helped me sort things out was trying to focus on what future I really would be happy with. Not even happy so much as what I could handle. And I just couldn't handle the idea of the next 20 years pretending I was a guy.

Anna Lorree

07-22-2012, 02:41 PM

Reduce the number of years married to 14 1/2 years, and reduce the number of people who know, and you have described my life perfectly. In other words, I understand where you are because I am there with you. I am coming to realize that I am not going to be able to hold this back forever, which tells me I might as well start the process now. As such, I am saving money toward beard removal and intend to start that process in September. After that, I anticipate starting low-dose estrogen and T-blockers. My wife has already told me that my transition will end our marriage, but I can't reassure her anymore. I am getting to the point where I feel I need to do this, I need to finally discover and BE me. I was meant to be a woman. If she can't be married to me as a woman, I can understand the position she is in and I don't blame her. It does sadden me, but she has to be her, too. She tells me that she will still want me in her life, but not as a spouse after transition.

This is the hardest thing I have ever decided to do, and I am only at the start of this journey, and I am frightened. However, I am getting to the point where I have to accept that I have no other real options. At this point, I am just buying time...

Anna

Marleena

07-22-2012, 03:01 PM

I think it's called denial Steph. I questioned myself all of my life and even raised a family until it hit me again in later life. I was told I'm TS, I had to be told. My first reply was that I don't want to be TS! I still question it because I don't want SRS, how can that be, right? Well my GID told me the truth.

TerryTerri

07-22-2012, 03:54 PM

Two tidbits of wisdom that really helped me with all this is the basic understanding that it doesn't matter how I feel about it, it doesn't change the fact I am transsexual or not. Think of hemmoroids, it doesn't matter how you think about them, either you have them or not. So, I had to learn how to disconnect my opinion of it all in accepting my honest reality. Once acceptance of the honest truth is acquired, then decisions on what to do about it come into play.
The other thing that realy helped me is, now that I have an understanding of gender and it's affect upon us, I looked back, with some scrutiny, at my childhood years, my teenage years, etc. and thought about it in a gender perspective. Wow, talk about giving me realizations I had been transgendered all my life. So so many things in my past started making so much more sense when I realized that I was simply a little girl inside. Of course I acted and reacted the way I did, it all made so much more sense to me!

Good luck figuring this all out. It is an interesting malady to wrestle with.

Nicole Erin

07-22-2012, 04:21 PM

If you do transition, your social connections will change yes. It may cost your marriage. You cannot let someone else decide how you should live your life. If you love her more than you want to transition then the choice is clear but if you are holding back just cause someone else will not approve, it might be time to move on with your own life.

angies GG

07-22-2012, 05:27 PM

Anna Lorree

07-22-2012, 05:38 PM

steph1964

07-22-2012, 06:24 PM

Hi Steph,

Your story sounds much the same as mine and many others here. My wife and I just started the process today of moving into apartments after getting a contract to sell our dream home which we have lived in for over 3 years. We have been married for over 25 years now and it isn't easy as you already know.

Thank you for sharing with me while you are still going through such a difficult time. I feel for you and I know how difficult this must be after being married for so long.

You need to do what is best for you as you are becoming more depressed and worried about it. You might try the HRT and see if it will help with these feelings. Ultimately, I think you know what the solution is.
Thank you Jorja for your kind words, and yes I am afraid that I do know what the solution is, I am just having a difficult time accepting it.

Steph, very similar to my story as well.
The only thing I can add is that when I finally accepted it (after running away for 45+ years) I actually started to feel a bit better, which I really hope will be the same for you.

Whatever you decide, whatever path you take, you are not alone.
Thank you Lisa

It was like being born into a family that is inside the house but you sit outside and listen to the conversations trying to feel included because you know you are related but never participating.
Thank you, this statement really struck me.

I truly hope the best for you. I'm here if you need someone to talk with.
Thank you Ann for your comments and support.

But you still have to make sure you don't focus on that too much and blame it for all your depression. I've seen a lot of people who are depressed for plenty reasons and they have a lot of stuff to deal with in their life, but they decide it's all about their gender issues. And then when they transition and their life isn't magically fixed they freak out.

Thank you, I appreciate your comments and I have given this a lot of thought. I have an appointment with a tg friendly doctor this week, not for HRT, but to talk about maybe getting on anti-depressants to help me with this. I don’t want to get to the HRT yet, until I have exhausted all my options. Maybe I am just delaying the inevitable but I want to know that I tried everything else first.

This is the hardest thing I have ever decided to do, and I am only at the start of this journey, and I am frightened. However, I am getting to the point where I have to accept that I have no other real options. At this point, I am just buying time...Anna
Thank you Anna, I am also very frightened and I feel for what you are going through. In the beginning I was able to reassure my wife that things would work out, but I’m no longer able to do this while being honest.

I think it's called denial Steph. I questioned myself all of my life and even raised a family until it hit me again in later life. I was told I'm TS, I had to be told. My first reply was that I don't want to be TS! I still question it because I don't want SRS, how can that be, right? Well my GID told me the truth.
Yes, and I don’t want to be TS…I mean no offense to anyone here but this is the nicest group of people that I don’t want to have anything in common with.

Think of hemmoroids, it doesn't matter how you think about them, either you have them or not… Once acceptance of the honest truth is acquired, then decisions on what to do about it come into play…I looked back, with some scrutiny, at my childhood years, my teenage years, etc. and thought about it in a gender perspective. Wow, talk about giving me realizations I had been transgendered all my life.

I love the hemorrhoid comment, and I have been doing a lot of reflection over the last couple of months, and it is painfully clear once I looked for it.

If you love her more than you want to transition then the choice is clear but if you are holding back just cause someone else will not approve, it might be time to move on with your own life.
I wish it were that simple for me, because I can’t imagine my life without her, but I am also having a hard time continuing to live as a male. I would like to think I have control over this, and maybe I will get control over it, but right now I feel like I am being torn in two.

Bree-asaurus

07-22-2012, 06:29 PM

Yes, and I don’t want to be TS…I mean no offense to anyone here but this is the nicest group of people that I don’t want to have anything in common with.

LOL.... no surprise there... I don't think anyone wants to be TS. Even today, after all I've been through, if I was given a pill that would make me all man or all woman, I would take it. I don't care what the outcome is as long as it MATCHES!

steph1964

07-22-2012, 06:33 PM

TeresaL

07-22-2012, 06:44 PM

Craaaaap! I don't want to read this. My wife just made dinner for me.

Unfortunately, I'm finding my story within these stories and it hurts, so bad.
Especially this...

For me shame was always the problem, I was severly transphobic because of the methods used to try and change me so I would be "normal" and my life became a holding pattern like an airplane circling and never being permitted to land so I wound flirt with the trans community but would not be a part of it from the internalized shame.

If you were married before 1980, you probably didn't have the information to tell your GF that you are TG. You may not have even admitted it to yourself.
Now, it's almost common knowledge amongst us, and should be communicated before marrying.

Anna Lorree

07-22-2012, 09:31 PM

LOL.... no surprise there... I don't think anyone wants to be TS. Even today, after all I've been through, if I was given a pill that would make me all man or all woman, I would take it. I don't care what the outcome is as long as it MATCHES!

I have said the same thing, virtually word for word, so many times that I can't even count it anymore.

Anna

Bree-asaurus

07-22-2012, 09:35 PM

I have said the same thing, virtually word for word, so many times that I can't even count it anymore.

Anna

Yuppers. But the thing is, we can't do anything about it. So all the fighting and searching for answers is just a waste of time. The sooner we can accept who we are and move on to figure out what we need to do to survive, the better.

Anna Lorree

07-22-2012, 09:44 PM

Yuppers. But the thing is, we can't do anything about it. So all the fighting and searching for answers is just a waste of time. The sooner we can accept who we are and move on to figure out what we need to do to survive, the better.

I guess I just haven't quite gotten over kicking, screaming and pounding my fists yet, but I am getting closer.

Anna

Melody Moore

07-22-2012, 11:11 PM

I do believe he does love me more than he wants to transition and more than ANYTHING in this world. I think this sucks BIG TIME. And if he had s choice the choice would be clear. I think this is the most likely path but we are still fighting and havent given in yet. But we have to consider what ma be.... I love you with all my heart and i hope i can support you with whatever happens <3
Angie, it is easy to see how much you are hurting and I fully understand what you have to deal with.

You feel like you are losing your "husband", but you have not lost the person you fell in love with. She is the same caring person they ever was, and you were not to know that you really fell in love with a woman. And that also makes it hard for you because to stay together and your partner transitions, it will mean that you will also have to go through your own transition with regards to your sexuality and be in a gay or lesbian relationship. And I know that many women cannot do that because social stigma puts so much strain on these types of relationships. But if you really love each other then I am sure those issues an also be worked through as well.

You have a long road ahead of you both and I rather it be you and not me. And just so you know
I went through something similar, but there was no way anyone could stop me from the need to
be true to myself. If I continued to repress my issues to make others happy it was going to kill me.

I wish you luck and all the best and I really hope that you can work this out, but I feel the best solution
might now be exactly what you want, but I hope you can come to a better understanding & acceptance soon.

Steph, I have nothing really further to add because the feedback & support you have received is the best that you can get.

:hugs: xx

ReineD

07-23-2012, 04:11 AM

Thank you, I appreciate your comments and I have given this a lot of thought. I have an appointment with a tg friendly doctor this week, not for HRT, but to talk about maybe getting on anti-depressants to help me with this. I don’t want to get to the HRT yet, until I have exhausted all my options. Maybe I am just delaying the inevitable but I want to know that I tried everything else first.

I think this is very wise. Transition is a huge step, especially if you've only been out dressed a few times in TG-safe venues.

Also, I'm concerned about your therapists' statements. The red flag for me is that she said that she knew you were TS after only a few sessions. I didn't know that therapists could determine this. I also don't know how any therapist can say this until you've had a lot more real life experiences under your belt (enough to have gotten over the novelty) where you and your therapist would have had the opportunity to explore your actual experiences more fully.

Please understand that I'm not making a judgment on whether you are TS or not. Only you can determine this. But it might be worth your while to seek a second opinion sometime in the future while you get the depression under control and you begin going out into the mainstream (alone or just with Angies ... not with TG support groups) on a regular basis? I'm not sure what your work situation is, you do risk your marriage, so you don't want to leave any stones unturned. In the meantime, it will be important to actually go out there (a lot) to see how it feels to be yourself?

I wish you and Angies all the best as you meander through all of this.

:hugs:

Karinsamatha

07-23-2012, 05:46 AM

It has been a long road for me to accept that i am trans sexual. I don't want to go through the motions of a life like i had been. It is time for me to get on with it so to speak. There are times i feel like a ghost in the machine partially able to walk in both the mle, and female world. But never really firmly in either. As i go forward with life and move slowly tword transition, i look forward to landing in the world i belong in. I am a woman and i will live as one, and also feel comfortable in my own skin. I can't keep lying to myself and others.

kimdl93

07-23-2012, 08:22 AM

This is all rushing up on your wife, and you, rather rapidly. I have no doubt that you are transsexual. And she hasn't had much time to adjust to this realization. Given time, theres a chance that you and your wife can reach an arrangement can work for both of you. She needs time and so do you.

Jorja

07-23-2012, 11:21 PM

Thank you Jorja for your kind words, and yes I am afraid that I do know what the solution is, I am just having a difficult time accepting it.

Take your time. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither are we.

steph1964

07-24-2012, 03:43 PM

I think this is very wise. Transition is a huge step, especially if you've only been out dressed a few times in TG-safe venues.

Also, I'm concerned about your therapists' statements. The red flag for me is that she said that she knew you were TS after only a few sessions. I didn't know that therapists could determine this. I also don't know how any therapist can say this until you've had a lot more real life experiences under your belt (enough to have gotten over the novelty) where you and your therapist would have had the opportunity to explore your actual experiences more fully.

Please understand that I'm not making a judgment on whether you are TS or not. Only you can determine this. But it might be worth your while to seek a second opinion sometime in the future while you get the depression under control and you begin going out into the mainstream (alone or just with Angies ... not with TG support groups) on a regular basis? I'm not sure what your work situation is, you do risk your marriage, so you don't want to leave any stones unturned. In the meantime, it will be important to actually go out there (a lot) to see how it feels to be yourself?

I wish you and Angies all the best as you meander through all of this.

:hugs:

Reine, I appreciate your concern for Angie and me. Maybe I am wrong but my understanding of the difference between being a crossdresser and being transsexual is having GID. I was under the impression, from reading here and other places, that you were transsexual whether or not you had taken any physical steps (HRT etc.) if you felt that your outsides and insides didn’t match. My counselor has a lot of experience in gender counseling and her comments were based on what I had told her during my sessions. It was very apparent to her that I had GID early on, and this is based on years of experience, working with many clients. But she didn’t say anything to me about it until a year later when I told her that I thought that I was transsexual.

As far as real life experience, this revelation actually happened before I went out so it wasn’t caused by the novelty. Angie was against me going out in public but after I reached this point, it was a compromise that we made in order for me to try to find a place where we could both be happy. I am well aware of what I stand to lose which makes it all the more difficult to understand why these feelings are so strong. I posted in this section because I have read many other posts in the past where others have gone through exactly what I am going through now.

Yuppers. But the thing is, we can't do anything about it. So all the fighting and searching for answers is just a waste of time. The sooner we can accept who we are and move on to figure out what we need to do to survive, the better.

If Angie and I knew for certain that this would be the outcome, we have both said that we would want to move on with our lives and not prolong the inevitable. But we have decided to give it some time because neither of us wants to accept this. I have read many of your posts Bree and I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but I am hoping that you are wrong in this case.

LisaMallon

07-24-2012, 04:18 PM

Steph, you are perfectly correct. GID shows at very early ages well before puberty.

But where you are at is very common, particularly for older (by which I mean 35-40+) TS's.

Look in once sense anything is manageable it just comes down to the compromises that you want to make and accepting that there will be pain & loss, but also gain whatever choice you make.

In the end (and only you and your wife can make this decision, perhaps with some professional help) you have to decide whether your relationship (and all the associated family, life, job, etc) is more important.
In which case it is about managing your GID. It will never go away and will always cause you angst. But on the other hand you get the pleasure and joy of you relationship (etc).
Now how to manage it is another thing, but a lot of people do (personally I think there are a lot of of people out there with GID of varying intensities).
Note that there is no cure, just management and it could take some time to achieve a reasonable balance .. and it might also be said you might fail (as I did for example).

On the other hand you chose 'the red pill' and that will fix your GID, but you will suffer pain and loss and regret, some of which may go on for a long time, even all your life. On the other hand you will have the joy and contentment of being yourself.

There are no easy answers to this and it is so personal and involves so many other people and factors that no one but you can choose. You will win and lose whatever the choice you make.

Saffron

09-27-2012, 07:01 AM

I can see myself in your story. I wish you all the luck.

Bree-asaurus

09-27-2012, 03:07 PM

If Angie and I knew for certain that this would be the outcome, we have both said that we would want to move on with our lives and not prolong the inevitable. But we have decided to give it some time because neither of us wants to accept this. I have read many of your posts Bree and I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but I am hoping that you are wrong in this case.

I've been there too lol. I fought.

I hope I'm wrong too. I definitely don't wish this on you. :( But I do hope that you can figure things out soon and accept who you are regardless of what that is. That stage of aggressive denial sucks.

Andrea J

10-03-2012, 09:30 AM

I do not wish to do breast augmentation, but will be happy with how they grow out on their own, if much. In the meantime I can use gel inserts or breastforms. If they get too large, I can bind them when I need to be in male mode for my wife in public.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that binding can damage breast tissue and distort the shape. FTM's do it as they are less worried about this.

Bree-asaurus

10-03-2012, 01:27 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that binding can damage breast tissue and distort the shape. FTM's do it as they are less worried about this.

You are correct. FTMs want to kill, maim and destroy their boobs anyway, so there isn't any risk to binding for them.

*Vanessa*

10-17-2012, 11:40 PM

You maybe surprised at the amount of good support you will actual receive Steph... Good luck and happy travels

kittypw GG

10-18-2012, 05:34 AM

that also makes it hard for you because to stay together and your partner transitions, it will mean that you will also have to go through your own transition with regards to your sexuality and be in a gay or lesbian relationship. And I know that many women cannot do that because social stigma puts so much strain on these types of relationships. But if you really love each other then I am sure those issues an also be worked through as well.

:hugs: xx

Melody how could you possibly fully understand what Angie is going through? You are right that she will have to go through her own transition but not to a lesbian. WTF? A heterosexual women can't just look past that and switch her sexual attraction? It definately has nothing to do with social stigma either. It's nice that you are empathetic towards Angie but I don't think you have any idea what a women's plight is regarding this issue. Sorry to say but not one transexual can wear the shoes of a person like Angie or myself. It's a terrible situation plain and simple.

Anna Lorree

10-18-2012, 07:34 PM

Melody how could you possibly fully understand what Angie is going through? You are right that she will have to go through her own transition but not to a lesbian. WTF? A heterosexual women can't just look past that and switch her sexual attraction? It definately has nothing to do with social stigma either. It's nice that you are empathetic towards Angie but I don't think you have any idea what a women's plight is regarding this issue. Sorry to say but not one transexual can wear the shoes of a person like Angie or myself. It's a terrible situation plain and simple.

It's no more fun for the husbands who now face tearing our marriages apart. Having to choose between wife/marriage and transition is like being told to decide which of your children to save and which to let die. It is a lose/lose situation for both spouses. I certainly do sympathize with you.

Anna

melissakozak

10-19-2012, 09:26 AM

Steph,

Have you tried living en femme for a few days in a row and then going out and about all over the place to see what it's like for you? I thought long and hard about whether or not I am TS, and yes, I have dressed up in marathon sessions to see if that is a life for me, and I found myself in a sort of a haze, realizing that whatever bits of male I life I enjoy, I still enjoy. If you find yourself not enjoying your male life at all, the choice is clear. I think that answers the TS question. Is continuing to have a male life actually painful? Does THAT cause distress? For most TSs, I think this is true. For some of us part-timers, like myself, who kind of bounce back and forth between genders yet still find satisfaction with our feet in both worlds, the answer is less clear.

Have you read Richard Novic's book Alice in Genderland? I think his life story and blog offer some form of perspective you won't find anywhere else. He lives his life in two genders, two worlds, and is pretty happy. I have modeled my own experience after his, and yes, he freely admits to minor FFS, some hormonal therapy, etc. He has thoroughly explored the trans world sans full time living, SRS, etc. My feeling about transtition is quite simple. Is it the ONLY solution to your GID? Forget about labels. Do you find yourself wanting to live full time en femme? And the answers become clearer when the right questions are asked.

You are not going through anything easy right now.....take your time....

Thera Home

10-19-2012, 02:14 PM

:thinking:

:idontknow:

Thera

ReineD

10-19-2012, 05:59 PM

:thinking:

:idontknow:

Thera

As expressive as smilies might be, I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Do you think that you could elaborate a little more, just in case you are saying something that I or others might wish to respond to? :)

Kate T

10-19-2012, 06:34 PM

If Angie and I knew for certain that this would be the outcome, we have both said that we would want to move on with our lives and not prolong the inevitable. But we have decided to give it some time because neither of us wants to accept this.

I am neither TS nor GG but it seems clear that you love your partner dearly. Whilst apparently common, separation is not a given for TG couples. Examples are present both in these forums (Kathryn Martin, Nigella and Sandra) and also in more public view e.g. Helen Boyd and Betty Crow (www.myhusbandbetty.com) and Bridget and Tammy Clinch (www.justlikeyou.com.au). I doubt it will be easy but maybe with time you can still be a partners.

sandra-leigh

10-22-2012, 09:46 PM

Reine, I appreciate your concern for Angie and me. Maybe I am wrong but my understanding of the difference between being a crossdresser and being transsexual is having GID. I was under the impression, from reading here and other places, that you were transsexual whether or not you had taken any physical steps (HRT etc.) if you felt that your outsides and insides didn’t match.

Not exactly.

I am for sure beyond being a crossdresser, and I have GID for sure, but it is not clear that I am transsexual. In order to be transsexual, I (biologically male-ish) would have to identify as being female, which I don't quite do. I identify as being "not male", and on the "female" side of center, but being sure that you are female is not the same as feeling that you are not male.

To use a weak analogy: you might have grown up an Arizona Cardinals (NFL) fan, when a lot of people around you are San Diego Chargers (NFL) fans, and later in life you might find you like a bunch of aspects of the San Diego team, but if it comes to the point where you realize that you are no longer a Cardinals fan, it doesn't mean that you are necessarily committed to the Chargers instead. Getting rid of your Cardinals seasons ticket doesn't mean your only choice is to buy a Chargers seasons ticket: you might be one of the people who favors the Chargers but can get along living in-between clubs.

I am certainly not saying that you are one of the people who lives in-between: your statement about having always wanting to be a woman would seem to make that possibility unlikely. I am just clarifying that there is a difference between having GID and being Transsexual. Indeed if you read this section, you will find a recent post (last few weeks) in which one woman said that she never had GID, that she always knew she was female and had always been comfortable with that, with the surgery merely fixing a biological mistake.

Steph, you are perfectly correct. GID shows at very early ages well before puberty.

I know that happens often; I am not sure whether it is always the case. I have read postings here from people who say they had no idea until later in life. I know that I did not know until later in life. When I was a child, I knew I was a boy and didn't doubt that: I just wondered why the other boys were acting odd.

sandra-leigh

10-22-2012, 10:52 PM

You want to destroy the woman you married because "I have always wanted to be female". WHAT CD doesn't feel this way?
That is why Tara & every CD on here tries their best to emulate a female-because they want to be female.

There are quite a number of cross-dressers on this system who say clearly that for them it is only about dressing up, or only about the erotic charge, and that they do not want to be female.

I was not conscious of wanting to be a female when I realized I was a cross-dresser (almost exactly 8 years ago.) I have progressed through realization that I have gender dysphoria and that I am not male, and I would rather live my life more female, but it is not at all certain that I am transsexual. A lot of the members of this system are not transsexual.

Raquel June

10-22-2012, 10:54 PM

Not exactly.

I am for sure beyond being a crossdresser, and I have GID for sure, but it is not clear that I am transsexual. In order to be transsexual, I (biologically male-ish) would have to identify as being female, which I don't quite do. I identify as being "not male", and on the "female" side of center, but being sure that you are female is not the same as feeling that you are not male.

I would say "identify as female" is a good definition, but for me that's actually kinda vague. And when you say, "being sure that you are female" ... well ... that can be a very difficult thing to come to terms with.

For me, I always wanted to be female. That was something I understood long before I really even knew what the differences were between boys and girls. And actually, if I hadn't discovered the biological side of it, I would've had an easier time dealing with it all.

But things get a little fuzzy for me when it comes to saying "I'm sure that I'm female," because I just don't know what's in anybody else's heart/soul/mind/whatever. I don't know what any man feels like inside. I don't know what any woman feels like inside. So it's hard for me to say, "I know that what I am is the same as what all women are inside."

It's kinda a silly semantic distinction, because obviously all men don't feel alike and all women don't feel alike. The important part for me in coming to terms with my transsexuality has been realizing that it's OK that I don't know exactly what is inside me and how much I am like any other person or group of people. But I want to be completely accepted and respected as a woman, and that's all I can really say for sure.

To use a weak analogy: you might have grown up an Arizona Cardinals (NFL) fan...

A questionable premise. I don't know if anybody grew up an Arizona Cardinals fan. Most football fans I met in Phoenix were obnoxious Cowboys fans.

angies GG

10-22-2012, 10:58 PM

Steph is correct in the assessment that I (the wife) have tried to be accepting, but will absolutely not be married to a woman, or even a cd who presents frequently. We do have a strong marriage. I couldnt imagine ANYTHING coming between us. Even the CDing in the beginning. But things have been progressing. It is a confusing time for us both. We have been together for our whole adult lives. Time will tell :-/

Anna Lorree

10-22-2012, 11:00 PM

I would say "identify as female" is a good definition, but for me that's actually kinda vague. And when you say, "being sure that you are female" ... well ... that can be a very difficult thing to come to terms with.

For me, I always wanted to be female. That was something I understood long before I really even knew what the differences were between boys and girls. And actually, if I hadn't discovered the biological side of it, I would've had an easier time dealing with it all.

But things get a little fuzzy for me when it comes to saying "I'm sure that I'm female," because I just don't know what's in anybody else's heart/soul/mind/whatever. I don't know what any man feels like inside. I don't know what any woman feels like inside. So it's hard for me to say, "I know that what I am is the same as what all women are inside."

It's kinda a silly semantic distinction, because obviously all men don't feel alike and all women don't feel alike. The important part for me in coming to terms with my transsexuality has been realizing that it's OK that I don't know exactly what is inside me and how much I am like any other person or group of people. But I want to be completely accepted and respected as a woman, and that's all I can really say for sure.

A questionable premise. I don't know if anybody grew up an Arizona Cardinals fan. Most football fans I met in Phoenix were obnoxious Cowboys fans.

I completely get what you are saying! I usually don't identify as a woman, rather I identify as always feeling like I ought to be a woman. Another common response when I am asked if I feel like a woman is to tell them that I feel like me. But as me, I feel like I should express myself in a feminine manner, and I want the damned dysphoria symptoms to stop.

Anna

Bree-asaurus

10-22-2012, 11:04 PM

Raquel June

10-22-2012, 11:23 PM

CD's like Tara (heterosexual, non-op, not bi) DO want to be female when they dress.

Yeah, but the "when they dress" part is one hell of a qualification. A non-op M2F transsexual wants to be female no matter what mood she's in or how she's dressed, and hetero or bisexuality is irrelevant.

Anna Lorree

10-22-2012, 11:25 PM

Yeah, but the "when they dress" part is one hell of a qualification. A non-op F2M transsexual wants to be female no matter what mood she's in or how she's dressed, and hetero or bisexuality is irrelevant.

Damn it... Sometimes I hate posts like that. It's too simple and fitting to ignore.

Anna

Raquel June

10-22-2012, 11:34 PM

Ahh, but someday we'll all be enlightened and we'll see how bigoted it is not to fully respect someone who wants to be male, female, a penguin, or a fresh-baked marble rye depending on the time of day :)

Inna

10-22-2012, 11:38 PM

one of the most beautiful and yet hardest of love's unselfishness is to let go the one who you love immensely. For both of you, the thought of separation after so many years is unthinkable, yet this love does not have to vanish because of such.
To love is to let go the hold of ownership over ones soul, to let them go, immaculate and unconditional love that is.

Pain shall be your friend, and truth, your light, and if you do not give in to anger, guilt and regret, you both will be able to walk through gates of hell and emerge pure and whole. Such is the journey.
I thank you both for sharing this, most personal of stories unfolding, and as I see how immense your friendship is, I am hopeful for the joy to return, and serenity to fulfill your hearts.

All my love, Inna

sandra-leigh

10-22-2012, 11:41 PM

Finally, I realized that I AM a woman and because of that I feel like a woman.

Exactly! You now know yourself to be a woman. You do not need "reasons" to know that about yourself, you just are.

And my difficulty is that although I now know that I am not "male", I do not know that I am "female". I wish I did know that -- or at least it seems to me in my present state that it would be so much easier to live if I Just Knew I was female than to be as I am, stuck in the middle. (In contrast, I emotionally recoil from the possibility that I am still actually male.)

I struggled for a long time on the question of whether I was "just a cross-dresser" or something more, and I came up with "reasons" that I was one or the other. I was absolutely unable to settle the matter through reason, but one day, between two moments, I quietly knew I was not male. Revelation, if you want to call it that. A step of Faith. A Conversion. A Mystic Experience. However it happened, I didn't know and then I did.

I am intellectually prepared for the possibility that some day I will have another such revelation, that I will know that I am a woman. But I don't know that now, and I live with my agnosticism -- and with the possibility that some day that I will have a revelation that convinces me that I am not really female either. Though, to be frank, my heart leans more towards the hope that some day I will know myself to be female.

The latter, to me, is an oxymoron. CD's like Tara (heterosexual, non-op, not bi) DO want to be female when they dress.

Indeed, CD's that are like Tara are like that. Some CD's, though, dress to emulate female without wanting to temporarily be female. And there are CD's on the forum that state that they just like the clothes, the textures and colors and appearance and physical sensations of wearing them, and don't want to even emulate being female. A friend of mine who is on this system says it is strictly fun for him, that he does not identify as female at all, even when wearing the clothes,

For myself, cross-dressing (before I knew I was transgender) was a compulsion, and I really couldn't have told you what I was getting out of it. It wasn't (consciously) to "be" female, even for a time. As I wandered closer and closer to realizing I was transgender, it was through the realization that even though I didn't feel as if I was female, that living as female worked better for me in so many ways.

steph1964

10-22-2012, 11:44 PM

Steph, Just ONE time you allowed yourself......& it quickly became obvious???

Please, I am NOT jumping on you, I am only trying to understand. OK? I am your friend, NOT your foe.
"I have a great marriage and a great life". But, because you had a one time? reflection & made this life-changing; marriage destroying (I have read your wife's posts) decision?

The majority of married people in this country would not be able to TRUTHFULLY say, " I have a GREAT marriage & a great life".

You want to destroy the woman you married because "I have always wanted to be female". WHAT CD doesn't feel this way?
That is why Tara & every CD on here tries their best to emulate a female-because they want to be female. Tara does not just play dress-up & acts like a woman. She BECOMES Tara (a different personality).

Please don't throw away what you have.
You promised your wife (I am assuming) that you would love, cherish, honor, etc. until death?

What is more important to you- an epiphany you once had (& a crappy therapist-to suggest you transition and destroy your marriage) OR your "great marriage" to your "best friend"?
A crappy therapist did not help my older sister-she killed herself anyway....despite giving this 'therapist' thousands of $$$ for 10 yrs. Some help she was.
Just because a 'therapist' says "you do this" does not mean they are making the best suggestion. Please-I don't want to hear complaints from Therapists.....MOST are awesome!

I hope I have not angered you. I am trying to help you & your wife.

I just know the pain your wife is feeling right now.
And, she LOVES you, too.

P.S.: If I ALLOWED myself to feel through the process of losing all of my beloved family members in such a short timeframe-I would fall into a DEEP depression that I may never overcome. So-I DO NOT allow myself to feel this. I am too young to lose them at this point in my life-that's supposed to happen to most people in their 60's & 70's & so on.

Once does not only mean one time, it is also a conjunction meaning after..."AFTER I allowed myself to feel through this process..." Do you really think that i would decide that I am TS after thinking about it one time? If you read what i wrote you would see that this took a long time, and that was to accept it. I have been this way since I was 4 but tried to ignor it.

Where did you read that my therapist suggest that I transition? She has never suggested this. And why is she a crappyy therapist? Because she doesn't try to fix me?

I have always loved, cherished and honored my wife and continue to do so. You say that i should not throw away all that I have but I am not trying to throw it away. The issue isnt me wanting to transition, i have not said that i am going to, it is that Angie is having a difficult time with all of this. Tara may become a different person but Angie doesnt want me to become Stephaine, even for a short period of time. So should I go back to dressing in the closet?

Please dont comment on my marriage because you dont know us or anything about our marriage.

Bree-asaurus

10-22-2012, 11:55 PM

I understand what you are saying about yourself and your feelings, and I respect that.

But, for you to say, ".....they do not want to be female". This could be taken 2 ways: they do not want to BECOME females via SRS, OR CD's do not want to BE female".

The latter, to me, is an oxymoron. CD's like Tara (heterosexual, non-op, not bi) DO want to be female when they dress. She changes her speech, mannerisms, walk, appearance (of course), and feelings to 'become' a woman in her eyes & psyche......She "wears it well".

But, he likes his masculine 'self', too. He doesn't want to give that up.

You don't BECOME female. You either are or you aren't. Transition, SRS and HRT are just to align your body with the gender that you already ARE.

Just because someone dresses the part doesn't mean the person is the character portrayed.

Exactly! You now know yourself to be a woman. You do not need "reasons" to know that about yourself, you just are.

And my difficulty is that although I now know that I am not "male", I do not know that I am "female". I wish I did know that -- or at least it seems to me in my present state that it would be so much easier to live if I Just Knew I was female than to be as I am, stuck in the middle. (In contrast, I emotionally recoil from the possibility that I am still actually male.)

I struggled for a long time on the question of whether I was "just a cross-dresser" or something more, and I came up with "reasons" that I was one or the other. I was absolutely unable to settle the matter through reason, but one day, between two moments, I quietly knew I was not male. Revelation, if you want to call it that. A step of Faith. A Conversion. A Mystic Experience. However it happened, I didn't know and then I did.

I am intellectually prepared for the possibility that some day I will have another such revelation, that I will know that I am a woman. But I don't know that now, and I live with my agnosticism -- and with the possibility that some day that I will have a revelation that convinces me that I am not really female either. Though, to be frank, my heart leans more towards the hope that some day I will know myself to be female.

Maybe you are somewhere in the middle. Or maybe you just haven't come to terms with who you are. No way to tell but to keep exploring and let time take it's toll.

Bree-asaurus

10-23-2012, 12:02 AM

Bree-asaurus

10-23-2012, 12:31 AM

Yes, I agree. But, I have spoken to, personally met, (& read posts from) several women who went thru' SRS.

They will argue with anyone who says they are NOT now a female! NOT ME!!!....I'm keepin' my mouth shut!

I have read so many posts in just such a short time here, and it seems that it is confusing to every person on this site:Transmasculine, Transsexual Male, FTM CD, Gender-Diverse;Bi; (sorry-I can't remember all of the acronyms) THAT we are ALL confused about our sexuality.

So-arguing about who is right or who is wrong about THEIR own understanding of it all is a moot point.....But, sometimes it is interesting to converse with others on their sexuality-right?

Love to ALL!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Opinions also change as we grow. I share mine and others share theirs.

And like the saying goes: Opinions are like [things]... everyone has one :P

ReineD

10-23-2012, 12:34 AM

Raquel (post #49), I get what you mean, but you should correct your typo before an indignant F2M points out that he is a man. He doesn't want to be female. :p

Back to GID/no GID/TS/non-TS/when dressed/when not dressed, discussed in the last few posts ...

This is about people who are not on a transition path:

If everything on this planet is a spectrum, it means there are middle states: male/gender-mix/female. Man/intersex/woman. Black/grey/white. Sweet/semi-sweet/bitter. Hot/tepid/cold. Smart/average/stupid. Ice/water/vapor. It makes sense this would also hold true with GID. There is full GID where the person is near suicidal if he or she is forced to live and present in the gender assigned at birth. And there is a milder form of GID where a person does not completely feel coherent with their biological sex, nor does he or she feel transsexual to the point of absolutely needing to transition, or die. The mixed-gender thing is hard to define, since we do live in a world that insists there are only two genders, male and female. We're all socialized to believe there are only just men and women. We only just see men and women around us. And so, people try to fit into being either male or female.

A coping mechanism for people who do not have full-strength GID, is to switch back and forth. They even convince themselves they feel differently depending on how they're dressed. And if there is any endorphin release involved, I wonder how many in-betweeners (or even people who identify as CDers) mistake this for "feeling" female. If the endorphin release is strong enough, they may even prefer their female states. At any rate, whether there is an endorphin release or not, I know that it is possible to integrate all of this and just accept being mixed-gender and feel the same way internally all the time, whether or not one is dressed. Accept both the male and female traits as being present, side by side. This is not easy, but in my opinion it is more genuine. A bi-gender can still maintain his/her sanity (and job) by playing by society's rules like my SO, and switching back and forth under specific circumstances, yet still feel and act like the same person all the time ... a person who doesn't fully align with the males in his/her circle, but not fully with the females either.

This whole business of changing personalities with the clothes might serve it's purpose when a bi-gender is discovering who s/he is, but it seems to me a person would be much saner if they could just become real with themselves about who they really are, and KNOW they are the same person no matter how they're dressed.

:2c:

Disclaimer: this does not apply to people who have full-on GID.

Don't other CD's here become another personality when they become their feminine persona?

My SO doesn't. If s/he did, I'd really be worried. :p

steph1964

10-23-2012, 01:33 AM

Then WHY in the hell did you 'air your dirty laundry' about YOUR MARRIAGE if you did not want any comments on it????

So-all of the 57 other people who are posting to your thread know you personally and anything about your marriage?

I do KNOW THIS-Angie is in a lot of pain. Ask her if she knows me?

Because the other 57 people didn't say that I WANTED to destroy the woman I married. Question if I love, honor and cherish my wife, state that this was a one time epiphany that I was putting ahead of my marraige, state that I had a crappy therapist who suggested that I just transition, state that just because my therapist says something, doesn't mean I should do it, when she never told me to do anything and i didnt say i was doing anything.

I also know Angie is in a lot of pain, but I am not trying to end the marriage. As she stated, she will not be married to a woman or a CD who presents frequently.

I aired my dirty laundry because i was looking for support, which I assumed is what this forum was for. Angie has her family and several friends who know, so although it sucks for her, she has a support system, I didn't. And thanks for refering to my gender issues as dirty laundry.

The issue I had with your post is that you state that you are not jumping on me, then attack everything I wrote, adding a lot of assumptions that were not true.

Bree-asaurus

10-23-2012, 01:43 AM

sandra-leigh

10-23-2012, 01:56 AM

You don't BECOME female. You either are or you aren't.

There is a possibility that I am a (possibly rare) exception to that. When there are imbalances in the gendered brain centers, which gender is "dominant" might be subject to change, including the possibility of working pathways "wearing out" like the way bridges can eventually get undermined by flowing water. (I know of absolutely no studies to support or refute this possibility, so it could be anywhere from nearly-unique to "not uncommon")

But anyhow, these mingled subthreads about dressing vs identity, and about CD vs middle vs TS, and about how one knows which one is, are, while interesting, I think getting pretty removed from Steph's original topic.

steph1964

10-23-2012, 01:57 AM

This is totally getting off topic. But if you share publicly, you accept that anyone who reads it can share their opinion. You're free to disagree but seriously... c'mon...

If you don't like what someone says, disregard it. This forum isn't a place to post knowing that every person who replies will agree with you and throw you a pity party. You post knowing full well that people can agree or disagree and reply accordingly.

(for the record, I know nothing of the posts in question so I'm not commenting on what you posted elsewhere in the forum, just your reaction to someone else's responses)

I am not looking for a pitty party and dont have a problem if people disagree, i was just angered that I was attacked with a whole bunch of comments that aren't true. I apologize, it has been a crapy day.

ChelseaErtel

10-23-2012, 08:04 AM

Steph:

I am beginning to realize that I too may be transsexual. I'm still in the closet, and we will have to wait and see. I'm going to go to a therapist as soon as I find one and see if my suspicions are correct. Thanks for posting, makes me feel not so alone.

I realize that when I do tell my wife, our marriage will be over. I do hope love stays, but I'm sure that we could not continue as Wife and Wife. We have been distant for years, it's just hard to realize it was my fault. Oh my, these posts are bringing out such deep feelings. Got to stop now, I'm crying.

Thera Home

10-23-2012, 09:24 AM

As expressive as smilies might be, I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Do you think that you could elaborate a little more, just in case you are saying something that I or others might wish to respond to? :)

Ok Reine
You want to know what I think?
Wait, better yet, sometimes music best descripes my feelings because of the background noise.I know Tracii will appreciate this one:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xPaeONSn_8

Thera

Raquel June

10-23-2012, 09:11 PM

I am sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Yes, I agree, "A non-op F2M transsexual wants to be female no,matter what..."
Tara does 'wish' s(he) had been born a female.

But that didn't happen, so s(he) does her best to feel (really feel) like a woman when s(he) BECOMES Tara, a totally different personality.
Just like 'Sybil', OR 'Secret Window'...Tara told me when s(he) saw that movie it was like he was watching himself.....another personality. For real.

You didn't offend me :)

I understand what you're talking about. I would do anything to have been born a female, but that's not gonna happen, and if I wasn't a weirdo who obsesses about my gender issues ... and loves sparkly things ... I would probably have to admit that I would've been better off just accepting my guy-ness. Because there is a difference between me and someone who is born female. I've been through different things.

I've definitely got issues. I'm attracted to women, but I don't quite see myself as someone who is attracted to trans women. And that's ridiculous, because there have actually been a few trans women who I have been attracted to pretty intensely. I still can't help seeing GGs and trans women as someone different, and I'm more attracted to GGs. And I'm more inclined to see trans women as my sisters.

I guess there's not anything wrong with that. But it messes with my mind the fact that I -- even as a person who identifies as female -- can't help drawing some major distinctions between myself and females in general.

Raquel (post #49), I get what you mean, but you should correct your typo before an indignant F2M points out that he is a man. He doesn't want to be female. :p

Oopsie! Fixed!

Aprilrain

10-24-2012, 07:37 AM

Are you "trying to accept that (you are) transsexual" or are you trying to decide wether or not to transition? These are two very different things. You can be TS and do nothing about it, though I wouldn't recommend it.

In trying to decide if you should transition consider this, Transition should be about survival anything short of that could be a disaster. When you boil it down to that qualification then marriage or no marriage becomes irrelevant. What difference does it make if you have a great marriage if your internal life sucks.

Ask yourself this; are you so distracted by thoughts of gender all day everyday that you can no longer function at your job? Are you so jealous of ordinary woman that you want to cry? What's worse on a day to day basis, the distraction and obsession with gender or the suicidal thoughts from all the shame and guilt? Does being stuck in the male role in your life make you angry, depressed, jealous and hateful?

Transition fixes one thing, GID. If your lucky and pass well after transition you get to be an ordinary woman (or man) nothing more and often something slightly less if and when people find out your actually a transsexual.

Think about it.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-24-2012, 09:02 AM

Angie and Steph my heart goes out to you!!

Steph, you are at a point where you and your wife potentially face a totally cruel and unfair problem

Hopefully, you will find over time that you just can't convince yourself you are transsexual (for any reason...not sure, afraid, compartmentalization), then you are lucky indeed.
However, your feelings whereever they are now will never go away...only you know the depth of feeling...but you need to know that it will never go away..
In my experience, most people that get to the point where they are truly questioning it are transsexual, they are women, and they basically are going through hell and high water to avoid the simple fact.. i have seen this over and over again... i see it here....

If you are somehow a mixed gender, then spending time as "her" will satisfy you AND being "him" would satisfy you too...you'd have the satisfaction of knowing you are expressing your female side...does this do it for you?? does this break the cycle of GID and depression? you are lucky if it does...a self aware transsexual woman would never ever say "i need some guy time"...

some of the things mentioned in this thread are common things we talk about here and in therapy.. some of the concepts make your problem overwhelming to consider..............
do i "wish" i was female, do i "know" i am female, do i "hate" that i'm a transsexual, why me!!!???why did it take so long to think this?, on and on....an on!! ugh

You need to jettison all of that baggage right on out of your mind.. consider what a 4,5,6 yr old little "boy" goes through...internally knowing they are wrong, but not being able to understand...imagine the hoops in our heads as we try to process our situation, hanging out with all the boys where the absolute worst thing you can be is a sissy... i got beat up in middle school for crossing my legs......for me it became a wishful fantasy, for others, they "KNEW" all along (btw this is the traditional narrative but its by far not the only one), for others they compartmentalize it away to varying extents...some of us transfer our shame and anxiety to our sexuality, others don't...see what i'm saying? it means you need to look forward to what you can learn more than back to what you "thought"....it means that your memory is faulty and it has all the little tripwires you put in there yourself...

april's questions are spot on... what are your answers? perhaps the questions don't burn yet , but perhaps you have a sense they will someday...maybe thinking about your future as a guy fills you with dread...i know for me a crystallizing thought i had was me on my deathbed, and i KNEW FOR A FACT that i would regret my life, that i would feel i lived a wasted life... i was able to process that thought back to WHY i thought that, and it was a huge step for me...OMG!! This feeling is GID, i am transsexual...and then it became all about what to do about it..

What is your quality of life...you made a statement about your great life...gosh do i get that!! I had a wonderful wife, two really centered and happy teenage daughters (how many can say that!?), a great job with lots of power and responsibility and money too... i had to give it all up... "had to" is the operative word... all these wonderful things that i loved and appreciated were making my life worse... they were suffocating me, and something in my life changed (can't say exactly when) and from that point every good thing made everything worse...my quality of life was below zero and i started giving the "ts" answer to all of april's questions...

think of it this way...there truly is nothing you can do to change whether you are transsexual... if you are, you and your family are going to have to deal with it
you and your wife deserve to have a good quality of life... what can you do to have the best overall quality of life?? I only accepted my transsexuality when i realized that all those things that were so great in my life where no longer improving my quality of life, and when i thought of my wife, my mom, my kids, my job and how wonderful they were, it destroyed my quality of life..it filled me with dread!!!

sorry to be so stark... there is a way out...therapy, hugs, a loving and caring wife, and finally the epiphany of acceptance can really be a good thing... i know it sounds coldly analytical (that's me , the math major), but if you are ts...you are ts!!! it's already part of your life and most importantly your marraige...the sooner you deal with it honestly and with love, the better off you both will be!!...so keep posting!!! ask ask ask....pm folks who have thoughts that are helpful to you...

Thera Home

10-24-2012, 10:07 AM

...maybe thinking about your future as a guy fills you with dread......

I just thought I'd give him something to snap out of it and remember his wife.

She's starting to freak out overhere......................Hello

Thera

Kaitlyn Michele

10-24-2012, 11:07 AM

i have no idea what you are talking about

snap out of it?? good luck with that.

if the truth seems hurtful or out of place today, perhaps you should consider what it will feel like in a year, or 5 years or 20 years, when it will still be the truth

Rianna Humble

10-24-2012, 01:58 PM

Unfortunately, Thera's contribution is from someone who (according to the introductory thread) has only recently started exploring cross-dressing in some depth.

They don't have any point of reference to understand what Steph is going through as a Transsexual. Thera cannot imagine the depths of despair and depression that Steph will be going through or the extreme lengths that she has already gone to to try to mitigate the effects of her gender on her wife.

I think that it is great that Steph's wife has been trying to work this through with her and that Steph has shown a great deal of maturity and consideration in accepting her wife's need to have a husband. This is nothing like the so-called "pink fog" that envelopes some cross-dressers when they sense a little freedom - this is a matter of life and death.

Thera Home

10-24-2012, 02:32 PM

if the truth seems hurtful or out of place today, perhaps you should consider what it will feel like in a year, or 5 years or 20 years, when it will still be the truth

Lets explore these truths:

Steph wants to be a chick:eek:

Mr Steph married and made a commitment to a woman(AS A MAN):)

Wife of Steph doesn't want to be married to a chick:sad:

Steph needs to wake up and get with wife on marriage situation:hugs:

If he was single then most of these wouldn't be a problem,wouldn't you agree?

Unfortunately, Thera's contribution is from someone who (according to the introductory thread) has only recently started exploring cross-dressing in some depth.
They don't have any point of reference to understand what Steph is going through as a Transsexual..

Rianna
You may be right but I just call em as I see em

Thera

Aprilrain

10-24-2012, 02:35 PM

thera, go back to the CD section with the other dudes

Thera Home

10-24-2012, 02:52 PM

thera, go back to the CD section with the other dudes

I don't want too, I want to play here.

:twirl:

:p

Thera

elizabethamy

10-24-2012, 04:39 PM

Thera, I'm sitting here reading Kaitlyn Michele and Melissa's and April's posts and trying not to cry...thinking about my situation, and Steph's, and so many others I know. Sometimes we can be playful here, but we are not playing. The ones who are playing are in a different place.

e.

famousunknown

10-24-2012, 05:21 PM

Recently I told my counselor that I felt that I was transsexual and she told me that she knew that I was after the first couple of visits, but didn' tell me because I needed to come to this realization on my own. During my meeting with her yesterday, she told me that I was fighting hard to keep from going down this road, but she was concerned because I was becoming more depressed and worried what would happen to me if I chose to ignore it. We did discuss what would happen if I wanted to transition and she told me that she would write me a letter for hormones if that is what I decided.

I’m just a bit confused here. You think you might be TS, so you told your therapist this, and she says ‘I knew right off that you were TS’ ? Now, this must be concrete proof that you’re TS headed for transition, so you have to ‘accept’ it no matter what? As if your therapist saying you’re TS is like being diagnosed with some sort of incurable disease?

Bree-asaurus

10-24-2012, 05:23 PM

Lets explore these truths:

Steph wants to be a chick:eek:

Mr Steph married and made a commitment to a woman(AS A MAN):)

Wife of Steph doesn't want to be married to a chick:sad:

Steph needs to wake up and get with wife on marriage situation:hugs:

If he was single then most of these wouldn't be a problem,wouldn't you agree?

Rianna
You may be right but I just call em as I see em

Thera

You see through Thera tinted glasses.

How do you know Steph is a guy when Steph is still trying to figure this out for herself? If she is transsexual then she IS a chick... no 'want' there

Wife of Steph may have married a chick unknowingly. Can't go back in time.

Getting on with the marriage is a brilliant idea that surely would NEVER result in pain, emotional trauma and an eventual divorce with your amazing advice. /sarcasm

If she was single doesn't matter. She's not single.

I’m just a bit confused here. You think you might be TS, so you told your therapist this, and she says ‘I knew right off that you were TS’ ? Now, this must be concrete proof that you’re TS headed for transition, so you have to ‘accept’ it no matter what? As if your therapist saying you’re TS is like being diagnosed with some sort of incurable disease?

If your therapist tells you your a transsexual before you tell your therapist that you're transsexual, you might want to find another therapist.

ReineD

10-24-2012, 05:40 PM

I agree with the others, Thera. You seem to have a black/white outlook on gender. Namely, that an inner sense of gender is determined by biology. Most people believe this but it cannot be farther from the truth. As a member of this community and in order to prevent yourself from being insulting to people who identify differently than you, please go to your local library and start reading books about gender non-conformity and transsexuality.

If you do not believe that transsexuality exists and that every member who posts here is a man by virtue of having been born with a penis, then why are you participating in this section of the forum? By doing so, and by telling them who they are according to your own truth, you are calling them liars.

Raquel June

10-24-2012, 05:58 PM

The sad truth is that no matter how much you love your wife, this is not a good relationship. There will be no happy ending. And the sadder truth is that it often takes years -- or even the rest of one of your lives -- to figure it out.

I used to always think it was ridiculous for people to stay in a relationship with someone who didn't accept who they were. I mean, if you wanna be female and she wants you to pretend like you're a regular dude, how much does she really want to be with you? And then I went and got into the same situation. I was mid-transition when I met a woman who was super into me and super supportive. Then about 18 months later she decided she didn't want to be a lesbian. And I did the same thing. I actually stayed with her and de-transitioned. And surprise surprise, she knew I was miserable and she knew I wasn't the guy she wanted to be with.

It's hard to come to terms with our issues because we feel ridiculous. I go through this train of thought all the time. But thankfully I get to the bottom of the list pretty fast these days.

I'm ridiculous.

Obsessing about gender issues is ridiculous.

Making your life more difficult when you don't have to is ridiculous.

...

But wanting to be in a relationship isn't ridiculous.

...

I will never be in a good relationship pretending to be a man.

...

So that makes transitioning and being myself very important.

And not transitioning will probably make you miserable. Maybe you'd be OK not to transition. Maybe that's not what you need. But being in a relationship with someone who is 100% not OK with who you are is probably not the road to happiness. Seriously. She knows who you are. And even if you try your hardest to man up, she's still going to know about your issues in the back of her mind. And she's still going to know that who you are inside is not who she wants to be with.

In the long run, you've gotta stop fighting this every day. Ya gotta be a little more Buddhist. You've gotta let go of attachments and take the road of least resistance. I know, there's plenty difficulty in being transsexual, but someday you'll realize that doing what you have to do actually is the path of least resistance. Not fighting yourself and your wife every day.

edit-

I mean, I know it sounds harsh to essentially say your relationship is doomed, but what are your options? Repairative therapy doesn't work. And if you want this to be a good relationship, you'd pretty much have to convince her that you have no desire to be feminine. But that would probably never be true. And you'd probably never convince her if it was. She's just going to get more and more resentful/disgusted over the years.

There are people in the world who will accept you. Don't you want to be happy?

And there are guys in the world who don't have gender issues. Doesn't she want to be happy?

How many years do ya wanna keep on trying to make it work? 20? 30? What's the cutoff for throwing in the towel?

You shouldn't get divorced just because you have some problems. People are way too quick to get divorced. But when someone realizes they're gay, it's probably time to find someone to go be gay with. How asinine is it when gay people try to stay in relationships with hetero people? But it happens. A lot of gay people try for many years to convince themselves they can stay in a hetero relationship.

And when someone realizes they're trans, it's probably time to find someone who's OK with that. It's just as ridiculous to try to repress that and make both of you miserable.

angies GG

10-24-2012, 06:36 PM

I (the wife) am overwhelmedd by all of these replies. Yes I am hurt, yes I am angry. Guess what. So is steph! As much as I hate to admit it I think aprilrain and katelynmichele are right in their response. Like I said in the loved ones section. This sucks! I/we are on one hell of an emotional rollercoaster. Sometimes I do rather well at knowing steph isnt doing this to me, doesnt want to hurt me, has no real control of the situation. Other times I blame him. He promised we would be married forever and there was no doubt in my mind(and im sure his too) that was the truth. Right now thats how I FEEL. Hurt,angry and blame on my husband. I know its not right, but its the feeling I have. I have been on vacation for over a week, we havent had much time to talk. There isobviously a lot of stress. Once we talk it will be begter. The situation will be the same, but we can cry and comfort each other anyway.

ReineD

10-24-2012, 06:51 PM

And not transitioning will probably make you miserable.

But what happens if Steph is not TS?

famousunknown

10-24-2012, 06:57 PM

Yes I am hurt, yes I am angry. Guess what. So is steph!
If Steph is truly TS this is something she's known for the 23 yrs of your marriage and a lot longer before that. A recent formal diagnosis of GID from some therapist doesn't confirm 100% that Steph is indeed TS. Transsexuality is not like cancer.

Bree-asaurus

10-24-2012, 07:03 PM

This has to be extremely tough for the both of you. But I hope you two can keep talking while you're both figuring out where your lives are headed. Dealing with these issues isn't something Steph signed up for, and dealing with a partner that is dealing with these issues isn't something you (angies GG) signed up for. All I can do is hope for the least painful outcome for the both of you... whatever that is.

EnglishRose

10-24-2012, 07:27 PM

If Steph is truly TS this is something she's known for the 23 yrs of your marriage and a lot longer before that.

Not necessarily. That's just "traditional trans narrative" writ large.

Anne2345

10-24-2012, 07:36 PM

If Steph is truly TS this is something she's known for the 23 yrs of your marriage and a lot longer before that.

The power of the human mind to run, hide, deny, and suppress is not to be underestimated. As such, it is quite possible for a TS to convince him or herself that he or she may be otherwise, and to actually believe his or her own inner self-deception. In the long run, such a "defense mechanism" is doomed to failure. It simply is not sustainable. Some, however, maintain the self-deceit longer than others. Regardless, your statement does not necessarily follow, and is not necessarily accurate . . . .

Bree-asaurus

10-24-2012, 07:43 PM

Not necessarily. That's just "traditional trans narrative" writ large.

Yeah... there is a little bit of confusion sometimes with the "I've known since I was..." stuff.

Some people KNOW they were trans from their earliest memories. But some people only knew that something was wrong, or that they knew they had to pretend to be a certain person. In the latter cases, it isn't after 10, 20, 50, however many years that they ACCEPT it and then realize that the label for those things that were wrong is "transsexual." Many of us KNEW, but we didn't know the label applied to how we felt.

Marleena

10-24-2012, 07:54 PM

The power of the human mind to run, hide, deny, and suppress is not to be underestimated. As such, it is quite possible for a TS to convince him or herself that he or she may be otherwise, and to actually believe his or her own inner self-deception. In the long run, such a "defense mechanism" is doomed to failure. It simply is not sustainable. Some, however, maintain the self-deceit longer than others. Regardless, your statement does not necessarily follow, and is not necessarily accurate . . . .

Hi Anne! This was exactly my case, I buried any thought of being TS because there was no help for me here in the 70's. I call it survival mode that I was in. Bits and pieces are still coming back. If severe enough this crap won't go away, it comes back to haunt you.

STACY B

10-24-2012, 07:55 PM

Yeah... there is a little bit of confusion sometimes with the "I've known since I was..." stuff.

Some people KNOW they were trans from their earliest memories. But some people only knew that something was wrong, or that they knew they had to pretend to be a certain person. In the latter cases, it isn't after 10, 20, 50, however many years that they ACCEPT it and then realize that the label for those things that were wrong is "transsexual." Many of us KNEW, but we didn't know the label applied to how we felt.

You Tell um Kidd !! You got the OL FAT GIRL on your side ,,, NOW ,,,, We can move on ,,We accept it an now we act on it or leave it alone ,,I am going to act ,,

famousunknown

10-24-2012, 08:09 PM

The power of the human mind to run, hide, deny, and suppress is not to be underestimated. As such, it is quite possible for a TS to convince him or herself that he or she may be otherwise, and to actually believe his or her own inner self-deception. In the long run, such a "defense mechanism" is doomed to failure. It simply is not sustainable. Some, however, maintain the self-deceit longer than others. Regardless, your statement does not necessarily follow, and is not necessarily accurate . . . .

Excellent point. I guess everyone has their own personal tolerance level of self-deception and ways of dealing with it.
Some people can live a lifetime w/o acknowledging they're TS.

morgan51

10-24-2012, 11:05 PM

Bree-asaurus

10-24-2012, 11:10 PM

I made it 56 years I did my best and failed, truly beleive its not sustainable. Your thread is certainly hitting some tender spots in my life and my wifes ,many parallels. Best luck to you both my heart goes out to you.

As hard as we have it (and I know how hard it is... I have the scars to prove it) transsexualism is really a first-world problem. When you're not spending every waking moment trying to survive, you are able to focus on other issues... including sexuality and gender identity. So I think it really varies depending on the history of each transsexual and what they are currently dealing with.

ReineD

10-25-2012, 01:13 AM

Rianna Humble

10-25-2012, 04:39 AM

We're in the TS section, so it makes sense that we hear from people who were in denial about being TS for many years. But, in the CD section, we hear from people who at one point thought they were TS and then realized they weren't.

(We hardly hear from anyone who moves outside the notion of binary gender.)

It's almost like a tug of war. Generally, the TSs assume that people who are questioning themselves, are TS. The CDs who never thought they were, and the TGs who thought they might have been, assume the "questioners" aren't TS.

It is not often that I disagree with something that you write, Reine, but I think that you are taking a very broad brush approach here. What I see more often is that those of us who are TS see someone who is questioning or is trying to rush into things and advise caution as part of a web of support.

Granted there may be one or two who encourage someone to go ahead willy-nilly, but those of us who have lived/are living the realities of GID and transition generally do not want to see someone go through the pain unnecessarily.

I cannot speak authoritatively for the other members of this forum but I know that when I see someone post something like

The last couple of months have been very difficult and depressing for me, as I have been coming to terms that I am a transsexual, not a crossdresser. I have memories of wanting to be a girl when I was 4 years old, and these feelings never went away, despite how hard I tried to suppress them. I lived most of my life full of guilt and shame
I will tend to believe that the person knows what she has been experiencing better than I do. And when that person speaks of the way that is affecting their marriage to someone who is trying to be supportive, I feel compassion for both of them.

On the other hand, when I see a person who has already stated that he is just trying out cross-dressing and who has no point of reference to understand what Gender Dysphoria does to a person or to a marriage telling the couple to "just snap out of it" I cannot sit by in silence.

I just call em as I see em
The standard response of any prejudiced person who has spoken from ignorance.

If you wanted to be supportive of Steph's wife, you could start by trying to understand what it is like to live with someone who is suffering from Gender Dysphoria and from that understanding attempt to make a constructive comment..

Kathryn Martin

10-25-2012, 05:02 AM

Yeah... there is a little bit of confusion sometimes with the "I've known since I was..." stuff.

Anyone who tells you that they knew from the moment they became self aware is simply creating a narrative. Remember history is written by the victors. Most transsexuals fully become aware of their conundrum of having a gender/sex incongruence between the ages of 9-12.

As hard as we have it (and I know how hard it is... I have the scars to prove it) transsexualism is really a first-world problem. When you're not spending every waking moment trying to survive, you are able to focus on other issues... including sexuality and gender identity. So I think it really varies depending on the history of each transsexual and what they are currently dealing with.

That is an interesting comment. I think that the emphasis of your statement should be that first world societies tend to see transsexualism as a problem. It and gender variance has much more acceptance in 2nd and 3rd world societies.

It's almost like a tug of war. Generally, the TSs assume that people who are questioning themselves, are TS. The CDs who never thought they were, and the TGs who thought they might have been, assume the "questioners" aren't TS. The wives (except those who stay the course) don't want their husbands to be TS.

Reine you put your finger on something very important here. There is much desire to assume that someone who asks a question is one thing or another. These assumptions create dynamics that are more often than not not helpful and often harmful.

What Steph and her spouse Angie are experiencing is the loss of certainty about the other. Steph is struggling with the inner dynamic of a transformation that appears by her own statements to consist of a slow breaking down of barriers of denial and resistance, that she has created over time to fend off transformation. I think her questions is: is this inevitable and will Angie love me no matter what. Angie having lived under the assumption that Steph is a man, seeing the transformation, is building defenses by placing conditions on her relationship to him. I know because I have been there with my spouse and we have come out the other side together.

To Steph I would say: When you have learned who you are (and I believe that notwithstanding your psychologists statement this question is not answered because you have not truly answered it for yourself) then is the time to make decisions. NO matter what anyone here or elsewhere says to you about who you are it is really your own conscious awareness that will answer the question. In going through this process hang on to your wife she is an anchor in your life even if you are in rocky seas.

To Angie I would say: I understand your anger and your confusion. It is natural to be confused because anyone who does not suffer from transsexualism cannot possibly imagine what it means to be afflicted with this condition. You must also express your anger. You have never asked for any of this, and you feel feel entitled to rely on the certainty of your marriage vows and the love that has accompanied you throughout your 23 year marriage. But understand that in expressing your anger it cannot be directed at Steph as a human being. He did not ask for this either. Beware of placing conditions on your love and commitment to Steph. If he had any other debilitating disease or illness would you tell Steph that unless she got better and returned to her former state you would leave her? And lastly after 23 years of marriage ask if you love the man or the human being.

If you would like to speak about this you know where to find me.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-25-2012, 08:29 AM

It is the ts section....It's not a tug of war...no one here (outside of thera) has an axe to grind...it is also true that nothing is certain, we all have bias based on experience...kathryn's wife stayed, mine didn't..any advice from us reflects that

i can only think of a very few people that have come here and said they are ts only to realize they are not....and frankly the most prolific posters here tend to have a transsexual radar (there is a good arguement kathyrn is suggesting that we should all shut up!! LOL...but i view it that we have valuable experience to share, and its each persons responsibility to read the posts and judge for themselves..), and that radar goes off or doesn't and it influences what people say..in my opinion, much for the better...otherwise every answer to every question would be...see a therapist, be honest with yourself, good luck!...there would be no point to it..

read the first paragraph of the OP... that is not even remotely close to how crossdressers wonder/fantasize/contemplate if they are ts... it is just so easy to say "i think i may be ts, or though it was ts"...ESPECIALLY on internet message boards...thats not what the OP says...

my therapy was very broad and i know 100's of cd's and just as many transsexuals...there are observable patterns and similarities....i have never personally met a cd that TRULY BELEIVED they were transsexual at any point..but i met tons of them that like to pretend or wonder if they are...that ask me lots of questions of what its like...kind of like its cool, fun, exciting, interesting...

older ts women that lived a male life continue to fight being ts right up to the point they can't, they dread transition as much as they dread not transitioning, they experience this self knowledge as a blow because they invested so much in their male lives, they think of all the people they are impacting, about $$, about their jobs.... they focus on the life threatening aspects of GID..why?? because we all feel it inside eating us away and as different as we are, we feel this gender dysphoria the same way, and you can read posts and tell when another person has that feeling..

my statements are just information...hopefully they are helpful. they are about facing your own reality as quickly as possible so you get the best quality of life for yourself while causing the least disruption in the lives around you..

... the best bet for steph and angie is to do their best to deeply explore this together.....i would totally respect that either one of you guys is not ready to deal with this yet, or that you don't want your lives dissected, but that's not the impression i get from your posts..

In a perfect world, you would meet every married person going through this to get feedback and share experience...this would help you think through your real life options and help you both learn how to best deal with this for yourselves..

kimdl93

10-25-2012, 09:57 AM

... the best bet for steph and angie is to do their best to deeply explore this together.....i would totally respect that either one of you guys is not ready to deal with this yet, or that you don't want your lives dissected, but that's not the impression i get from your posts..

In a perfect world, you would meet every married person going through this to get feedback and share experience...this would help you think through your real life options and help you both learn how to best deal with this for yourselves..

Can I hear you all say "amen" sisters and brothers!

ReineD

10-25-2012, 10:04 AM

It is the ts section....It's not a tug of war...no one here (outside of thera) has an axe to grind...

As Rianna pointed out, I was speaking from a much broader perspective than just this thread, or this section of the forum. It is an argument that is pervasive here and that we see over and over again, in all sections of the forum: whether someone is TS or not, or what does "TS" mean. The members who have come to the conclusion they are TS themselves, will sympathize more towards the possibility that any Questioners might be TS as well and further that like the TSs, the Questioners will not be happy unless they transition. The members who have seriously questioned this within themselves and who have come to different conclusions will not make the same assumptions. This is why I suggest that if a Questioner wants other people's opinions, he or she should not limit the questions to one or the other side of the forum. This doesn't mean asking members who have no concept of alternative gender identity and who think that all persons born with penises are men. On the other side of the forum, the questions can be phrased in such a way as to ask the specific members who have seriously believed they might be TS at some point in their lives.

I liken this to a need to be objective in scientific research. The whole point is that if a person needs to investigate something, he or she should investigate it thoroughly in order to avoid confirmation bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias).

Badtranny

10-25-2012, 11:21 AM

The members who have come to the conclusion they are TS themselves, will sympathize more towards the possibility that any Questioners might be TS as well

Excellent observation RD, but I think my perspective has tilted since being an active member here. I definitely used to think that people don't question their station for nothing. Where there is smoke there's fire right? But that perspective was born of ignorance about the "continuum". I didn't really understand that people could cross dress and still be perfectly happy with their genetic situation. My story has been one of resistance and eventual acceptance so I just kind of colored everyone else with the only brush that I had on me.

Lately I've come to learn that there are indeed degrees of TG'ness but I've also noticed a tendency to sort of idealize the TS girls. I sense a feeling that some of the CD's want or wish they could be TS because they think of it as more of an elite sorority instead of what it really is. A bizarre and horrifying life change that begins with a 100 days of terror and eventually becomes just an average life as an odd looking woman.

I have become sensitive to this idea that CD'rs are "ready for the next step" or that they are "almost full time already" so transition is just paperwork. What me and the other transitioners have done is simply make a commitment to be honest with ourselves and the world. It's a commitment that ripples through every single aspect of our lives and so I have to admit to a little eye rolling when a CD'r decides that they are "really transsexual". They may be of course and I'm certainly not making judgements nor do I think I'm qualified to do so. I'm just a another tranny struggling through transition, but I'm living a real life and suffering real consequences and people who dress up and go shopping in the next town over don't get to say they are just like me.

Marleena

10-25-2012, 11:43 AM

Lately I've come to learn that there are indeed degrees of TG'ness but I've also noticed a tendency to sort of idealize the TS girls. I sense a feeling that some of the CD's want or wish they could be TS because they think of it as more of an elite sorority instead of what it really is. A bizarre and horrifying life change that begins with a 100 days of terror and eventually becomes just an average life as an odd looking woman.

What I'm seeing is a lot of self diagnosing going on here lately. It's like I have some of the clues, so I must be TS! This is a forum and we can't diagnose anybody. We can only give clues. If somebody thinks they may be TS they need confirmation from a professional. A diagnosis takes time so why all the panic until an answer is found? I agree with Melissa there is nothing glamorous about being TS, in fact I think it sucks!

ReineD

10-25-2012, 12:02 PM

If somebody thinks they may be TS they need confirmation from a professional.

Professionals cannot tell someone whether they are TS or not. Professionals can only be guided by a patient's self-reporting. Also, professionals are or should be trained to rule out major conditions other than dressing for sexual gratification, such as bi-polar, depression, etc, that once treated might lessen GID, but even then, professionals are not infallible. Ultimately the only source for answers is within the patients/clients themselves.

Also, we've seen countless threads here, debating what is a TS. Is there a difference between a true TS who cannot be happy without full transition, and someone who can manage a life switching back and forth? Is the first a classic definition of a woman born in the wrong body and the latter being more on a middle path? Does TS = woman, or does TS = TS? I'm not providing answers here, just saying there is a great deal of debate about this. Although ultimately I believe this varies according to the individual.

Marleena

10-25-2012, 12:11 PM

Professionals cannot tell someone whether they are TS or not. Professionals can only be guided by a patient's self-reporting. Also, professionals are or should be trained to rule out major other conditions, such as bi-polar, depression, etc, that once treated might lessen GID, but even then, professionals are not infallible. Ultimately the only source for answers is within the patients/clients themselves.

A gender therapist will be able to tell after a while based on the patients answers. They are trained for this, unlike the majority of people on a message board. They will help the patient come to a conclusion. I would think misdiagnosis would be kept to a minimum by going to a gender therapist.

ReineD

10-25-2012, 12:16 PM

That's the point, Marleena. Not everyone is trained to the same degree of proficiency. Just looking at the physical side of this (HRT), some doctors refuse to administer it, while others push people through, no questions asked, and everything else in between. This is still very much a developing field.

melissaK

10-25-2012, 01:09 PM

Wow. This thread is like a soap opera. At times it reads like the 5 blind men each describing an elephant and calling each other wrong. At times I hear the shrieking metal and booming collisions of a train wreck.

Steph 1964 and Angie's GG, it's so difficult. My wife and I are in your same boat, four rows back on the right.
It's scary. It's emotional. It's way more change than we'd like to deal with. We've always been a very close couple, but I've always been dishonest with her about my TS wants - sometimes lies to her were because I was trying to lie to my self, othertimes I lied from fear that if I tell her she will leave me. I gave it all up and have been telling my wife the truth, and finally admitting the truth about myself to her. She's finally hearing what counselors and forum members have heard for decades.

We now have the most honest dialogue we have ever had. And we have found a new closeness. At least I feel a sense of rediscovery of myself and perhaps that kind of happiness is showing through, and it is shared with her, my best friend. And in that we seem to be finding a new chapter in our relationship.

I wish you both the best, and wish you courage and strength as you move into this new chapter in your lives.

Kathryn Martin

10-25-2012, 03:51 PM

Professionals cannot tell someone whether they are TS or not. Professionals can only be guided by a patient's self-reporting. Also, professionals are or should be trained to rule out major conditions other than dressing for sexual gratification, such as bi-polar, depression, etc, that once treated might lessen GID, but even then, professionals are not infallible. Ultimately the only source for answers is within the patients/clients themselves.

People seek professional validation because it provides the "medical justification" defense.

Rianna Humble

10-25-2012, 04:49 PM

As Rianna pointed out, I was speaking from a much broader perspective than just this thread, or this section of the forum. It is an argument that is pervasive here and that we see over and over again, in all sections of the forum: whether someone is TS or not, or what does "TS" mean. The members who have come to the conclusion they are TS themselves, will sympathize more towards the possibility that any Questioners might be TS as well and further that like the TSs, the Questioners will not be happy unless they transition.

I'm sorry, Reine, this position is the exact opposite of my contribution in this thread and of my wider observations. :sad:

We may accept when someone says "I think I am TS, I have been fighting this knowledge but have reluctantly come to the conclusion that I can fight it no longer". I do not see people I know to be TS saying to a questioner that they will only be happy if they transition.

Almost every regular TS contributor in this TS forum has at some time posted words to the effect of "Do not transition unless you have to".

You will find people in the CD sections saying something to the effect of "I thought I would like to be a woman, but the reality was different and I now see it was pink fog". You will also see those in that section saying to others as they said to me "Do not act in haste, make sure you really are TS and not just in a pink fog". That advice was good when offered to me and is equally good when offered to others.

You will find the self same advice being offered week in and week out in this forum. We know the difficulties of transition - not just intellectually but viscerally. We live the sideways glances, the mis-gendering, the transphobia, the sheer hell of looking in the mirror and only seeing our former self staring back. Do you really think that any of us would wish those experiences on someone who does not need to suffer them?

On the other hand, for those of us who do need to transition, even that degree of suffering is better than the living death of being forced to exist as the wrong gender.

STACY B

10-25-2012, 04:59 PM

People seek professional validation because it provides the "medical justification" defense.

Woman you said a mouth full there ,,,An I will be the first to use that Defense ,,, Amennnnnn ,,,, That's the Only thing they Understand ,,WHY ? Answered !!

Rianna Humble

10-26-2012, 03:49 AM

There has been an interesting diversion by the visitors to this forum who have either "called it like they see" - to which I could reply in the words of John Lennon "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" - or those who on zero evidence have accused us of pushing a "questioner" (certainly not the OP) to transition at all costs.

Perhaps it is best if we now concentrate on the painful realities evidenced in the original post and in the reply from her wife Angies GG.

The last couple of months have been very difficult and depressing for me, as I have been coming to terms that I am a transsexual, not a crossdresser.
...
I reached the point about two months ago, when I could no longer keep my feelings in check, and I started soul searching. Once I allowed myself to feel through this process and reflect on my past, it became quickly obvious that I have always wanted to be female and I don’t remember a day when I haven’t felt this way. In the past two months my wife and I have been struggling to process this, both of us have been depressed and often in tears. We have been married for 23 years, and are best friends. I have been fighting to accept my life as it is, because I have a great marriage and a great life, yet the more I fight the more depressed I become. Why would I want to give all that I have up? And yet I am finding it more difficult every day to continue to lead my normal life.

It is very evident from your words here that you are facing a terrible dilemma, you have been trying to live as the man that your wife married but as a consequence are facing ever deepening depression. Your love for your wife comes over loud and clear and I would not want to be faced with this situation.

There can still be good outcomes even if you find you have to transition, as evidenced by both Kathryn and Kaitlyn's example, and I hope that you and Angies GG manage to find a successful compromise. What gives me hope is that you are both trying to do just this.

I do believe he does love me more than he wants to transition and more than ANYTHING in this world. I think this sucks BIG TIME. And if he had s choice the choice would be clear. I think this is the most likely path but we are still fighting and havent given in yet. But we have to consider what may be.... I love you with all my heart and i hope i can support you with whatever happens <3

Angies GG, you have already proved yourself to be an exceptional and loving person by coming to these forums to try to understand better and to publicly offer your support as you have here. My heart goes out to you because you did not sign up for this, yet you are willing to try to work through it with your husband.

I hope that you understand that this is not something that Steph would have chosen and if she could get through it without causing you any hurt that is what her heart would desire more than anything in the world.

Please do continue to come into this forum, there are a number of members who have a great understanding of what you are going through because they have lived it with their own partner.

Contrary to what has been stated, those of us who know the pain and anguish that Gender Dysphoria brings to our lives are not in the business of pushing someone into transition as the only option and we would love to be there both for you and for Steph.

I truly hope that between you and Steph, you can come up with a compromise that will allow you two to continue as the best of friends that you have been for the last 23 years

Kaitlyn Michele

10-26-2012, 05:55 AM

Because the other 57 people didn't say that I WANTED to destroy the woman I married. Question if I love, honor and cherish my wife, state that this was a one time epiphany that I was putting ahead of my marraige, state that I had a crappy therapist who suggested that I just transition, state that just because my therapist says something, doesn't mean I should do it, when she never told me to do anything and i didnt say i was doing anything.

I also know Angie is in a lot of pain, but I am not trying to end the marriage. As she stated, she will not be married to a woman or a CD who presents frequently.

I aired my dirty laundry because i was looking for support, which I assumed is what this forum was for. Angie has her family and several friends who know, so although it sucks for her, she has a support system, I didn't. And thanks for refering to my gender issues as dirty laundry.

The issue I had with your post is that you state that you are not jumping on me, then attack everything I wrote, adding a lot of assumptions that were not true.

I went through this thread again because i have a lot of interest in trying to support husbands and wives going through this..

i found no questioning in your posts...rianna touched on this ...there is a whole derailment of why you and angie came here by people with an agenda...reine called it confirmaton bias but its not that all.... this is the transsexual forum for crying out loud...hopefully you came here to talk to transsexuals...

one of the things you will face as a transsexual is people telling you no.. including crossdressers and gender queer people.. they have a different problem than you have, they have a different solutition to your problem...and they make assumptions about you that aren't true because they really don't share your experience...

certainly its possible that you will change your mind at some point, but hope is not a strategy, and the transsexual people here will all tell you that it doesn't turn around like that

..those of us that simply took you at your word (and angie) have alot of information and experience to share..nobody is going to try to push anyone to transition because that is a drastic and destructive step...but you may find over time that you feel you have no choice in the matter or that you simply can't go on without it...and in that case, the last thing you need is a bunch of people telling you that what you know to be true in your heart and soul isn't true, or that somehow because they have a good marraige as a crossdressing couple you can take something out of it...

I hope you guys don't get discouraged by some of the back and forth that goes on around here, thats the last thing you need..

stefan37

10-26-2012, 06:24 AM

My heart goes out to both Steph and Angie. I can totally relate to this complex situation as My wife and I are going through this difficult process also. It is tricky maneuvering through the minefield without a map showing the mines. On one hand we have our inner desires to be one way , our wives have thier own desires and fears and to try to find middle ground may not be possible. The one thing transition is teaching me is that one needs to develop patience. Allowing chemicals to do their work, develop the socialisation skills, and sense of style needed to transition successfully and lastly to attempt family members, friends and business associates to be comfortable with and hopefully accept the mental and physical changes that occur. In my situation the use of hormones has completely alleviated my anxiety has produced a sense of calm tha allows me to not obsess abut my gid or lack of quick progress. I am glad that the love my wife and I have for each other is slowing my transition to allow both of us the opportunity to adjust to this process. Where we end is I have no idea and it is painful to have plans of being together in retirement and having those plans after 30years of marriage completely shattered and adjusting to new realities takes a tremendous amount of energy. My comfort level at this time is such that I am able to mitigate my gid to allow me the energy to devote to saving the relationship. I also know that if seperation is emminent that circumstances will change I will take my foot off the brake and press the accelerator a bit more.
I also believe that individual that posts that we should be slapped to snap out of it has no idea what we are going through. Only those of us that harbor these conflicting thoughts or have lived through them can truly understand the mental pain and anguish.

Thera Home

10-26-2012, 10:58 AM

:Poke:

Hi All
(I know,I know.........Great, not this freak again)

Even though we don't agree on most things, I appreciate the fact that we stand mostly together on helping these folks get this marriage under wraps because that is something I hold dearly in my heart.

I don't quite understand the tg, ts,cd,pms(some pill induced:heehee:),pg13 thing going on and I don't really want to know. I know some of us are special in ways I don't understand and I don't need to understand since it's none of my business.
You have your battles and I have mine. You command yours and I'll handle mine.

I wish you both the best, and wish you courage and strength as you move into this new chapter in your lives.

Agreed..........................

Thera

P.S. lets see who else I can't give HELL too.........:heehee:

abigailf

10-26-2012, 01:06 PM

Steph,

I just read this post for the first time and I only scanned through the replies but I wanted to reply all the same.

When I read it I remembered something someone told me once in a post. I was going to write it to you in my own words, but decided to take the time and look it up in the archives so I can credit the right person. The fact that I even remembered it after a year says its must have been worth saying. Thank you Melissa, I have hung on to those words all year.

Abigail, your situation sounds promising. I get concerned about the girls who have a laundry list of terrible things going on in their lives and seem to be looking for a way out. Those of us with great lives who should otherwise be happy owe it to ourselves to find out what it is that is holding us back. ....

Interestingly enough, shortly after my thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?155380-I-can-t-fight-this-feeling-anymore&highlight=) which Melissa responded that quote in, I had decided to fully transition. I was on HRT by September. I sit here now typing this with a splint on my nose. SRS will be next and as soon as the medical industry will allow me. There is no turning back. I don't even want to look back except that I had such great experiences I do not want to forget them entirely, I just want to reconstruct those memories with me as a tomboy instead of a (yuck, do I have to even say the word).

I was warned multiple times that to transition was to risk everything. I figured, if I am dead, I lose everything anyway, so I wasn't really risking all that much. I didn't truly get to understand what that meant until today, when I was heating up some soup for lunch and every time I opened a cabinet it was emptied by my wife who was packing things up to move into her new home with the kids.

To think about losing everything is one thing, but to experience it is a whole lot harder, especially without the aid of testosterone. They are my everything and I lost them - somewhat.

We both share a bond like few couples do and we are recreating our relationship. It is interesting because there is nothing to compare it to. I am not like a girlfriend because, well, let's face it, she did not have two kids with her other girlfriends. She never slept, with her other girlfriends. The fact of the mater is, I am a bit more than a girlfriend and she is too. We may be separated and on the way to divorce, but not as an angry hateful couple. Instead as two people who are doing what we must in order to save our relationship.

You have some tough decisions ahead and since you started this thread in July it is likely you have already made some.

I wish you luck and you are both in my prayers.

Badtranny

10-26-2012, 03:31 PM

Thank you Melissa, I have hung on to those words all year..

...and you just made me cry!

Dammit I hope nobody walks into my office for awhile.

ChelseaErtel

10-26-2012, 03:52 PM

I am going through the same thing. This thread has been tremendously helpful and I thank everyone for pouring out their thoughts here. It's a very tough decision, and I've finally come to realize that "I AM A WOMAN" and therefore a TRANSSEXUAL. Chelsea is tired and not going to take it anymore. Be honest and true - I always say this, but until now never REALLY applied it to myself. So, the psycho analysis goes on and new doors will be open.

BTW, just love you STACY B, you brighten my day with every post.

Raquel June

10-26-2012, 05:34 PM

... Other times I blame him. He promised we would be married forever and there was no doubt in my mind(and im sure his too) that was the truth. Right now thats how I FEEL. Hurt,angry and blame on my husband. I know its not right, but its the feeling I have. I have been on vacation for over a week, we havent had much time to talk. There isobviously a lot of stress. Once we talk it will be begter. The situation will be the same, but we can cry and comfort each other anyway.

Obviously you're not being a bad person by seeing this as something he is doing to you that is hurting you.

But, really, what are the possible realities here?

1) Your husband is trans.

2) Your husband is not trans.

If your husband is not trans, then ... hmm ... what does that mean? He's just a lunatic? He's completely stressed out and has cracked? Or he's a guy who likes to express his feminine side more than you want him to.

Either way, unless he's just crazy and needs help, the truth is that you can't accept your husband. He's not what you want. So where are you guys going besides a downward spiral of codependency and resentment?

Even if he/she gets over these issues, aren't you still going to resent the whole situation? Or worry that he's just trying to appease you by being more manly? Dread that it'll all start back up again? Will you really ever have a good relationship?

The only real hope for your relationship would be if you came to some type of realization that you're OK with him.

Perhaps the relationship is viable, but you're just having trouble dealing with it because you feel like he's essentially torturing you with all this BS. If that's how you really feel, it would be good to just try to get to the bottom of the bigger picture of who your husband really is.

I'm not saying you have to embrace all the concepts of Gestalt therapy, but The Paradoxical Theory of Change can be eye-opening as far as how we look at change and happiness and our true selves.

http://www.gestalt.org/arnie.htm
(it gets pretty irrelevant and boring towards the end)

Are you both struggling? Are you both unhappy? Do you both need to change?

Change occurs when one becomes what he is, not when he tries to become what he is not. We make ourselves miserable when we compartmentalize our problems and don't live as a single, whole person.

And that paper really had nothing to do with split personalities or transgender issues.

"And not transitioning will probably make you miserable."

But what happens if Steph is not TS?

Well, that's the "probably" part... :)

transsexualism is really a first-world problem.

I've often thought that when I was being critical of myself and feeling like being trans was a totally narcissistic issue.

But there also aren't many vegetarians in oppressed places where a pork chop can save your life. So, if you're never given the chance to practice vegetarianism, are you still a vegetarian on the inside :)

We're definitely lucky to have the free time to drive ourselves crazy. But, feel free to argue otherwise. I have a decent desk job, but I'm often bored out of my mind. And I think back to jobs like busting my ass unloading semis or hustling driving a UPS truck, and I was never yawning and looking at the clock. Maybe people are all secretly happier when they're struggling.

But in truth, there are transgender people all over the world. There are large impoverished Hijra communities in many parts of Asia that wouldn't be considered First-World.

abigailf

10-26-2012, 08:01 PM

...and you just made me cry!

Dammit I hope nobody walks into my office for awhile.

Oops, if it helps, I cried too.

Raquel makes some really good points and to extend on that.

Angie, you need to prepare yourself for the worse. That is if she transitions will you stay.

Give yourself an honest answer to this question: are you soul mates?

Meaning, are you co-joined at the soul. If you are, then physical awareness is irrelevant and you can have a wonderful life together no mater would destiny does to your shells.

You can love each other and still not be soul mates. You may think you married a man, but in truth you married a person (a woman) who was in a man's body. The same person after transition will just be in an altered body. Perhaps some mannerisms will change as well but at the core she is the same person. If you are soul mates, then the body does not matter.

I suppose any number of things could have happened to alter the body, being transsexual is just one of them and so happens to be the one we all got stuck with. Is it worse than the woman who loses her husband in a car accident or some serious medical condition? I don't know the answer to that, and I sure do not want to find out the hard way, but I do wonder if it is a better then finding out they are trans. I have no perspective on this except I know what happened to my dad is definitely not better. His condition was incurable, at lease mine is. What are your thoughts on that?

Your husband didn't know this was going to happen any more than that person killed in a car accident knew they were going to die that day. It is crud and it just happens. Did we have clue? Sure, but not much different then that person climbing in the car with a drunk driver. We all have clues we just do not always know how to decipher them.

My thoughts, forget about what you think others will think and make a decision based on what you feel and what you feel alone. I know it is not an easy decision. In fact, it is much harder than the decision to transition. For me and I am sure for most, if not all that the ultimate decision to transition was life or death. That made it simple for us. I don't envy your position in the least. The outcome of your decision is a varying degree of sadness all around. Living with the person you fell in love with as a woman when you are not a lesbian. That can't be easy. Or living without the person you fell in love with. There is no win scenario there.

Oddly the scenario was the same from the other side. To not transition and to die either physically or internally is sadness to those left in the wake, or to transition and there is sadness in the loss of a wonderful relationship.

This is so complex. My wife and I decided to separate and start a whole new relationship with each other. We believe once we get past the separation that we could be some really great friends who had a wonderful past together. Well with the exception of the last 5 years perhaps.

Good luck and I shall say a prayer for you.

ReineD

10-27-2012, 12:26 AM

If you are soul mates, then the body does not matter.

Does this mean that if a hetero GG cannot be in a lesbian relationship, she doesn't love her husband enough, and he was never her soul mate after all? It was all a lie?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that wives should leaving their transitioning husbands. I greatly admire the GGs who stay the course. But I am saying that I do not think a GG who cannot be in a lesbian relationship loves her husband any less than one who can.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-27-2012, 07:54 AM

I think that's right Reine...i think sometimes when we try to be too positive about things and focus on things like being soul mates or true love it probably feels like pressure to a wife struggling with a transsexual husband

however, i think in abigails case (and mine), our wives are moving on from the marraige but were willing to open their hearts to some kind of relationship.. i know in my case (and i beleive in abigails too) I felt deeply grateful to her and my own response was to do everything i could to share a positive and meaningful friendship with her...this benefits both of us and maybe most importantly our kids..

abigailf

10-27-2012, 08:21 AM

Does this mean that if a hetero GG cannot be in a lesbian relationship, she doesn't love her husband enough, and he was never her soul mate after all? It was all a lie?

Well said Kaitlyn.

Yes and no, never soul mates but not necessarily a lie. We are human and prone to mistakes. We both lived believing the same thing only to be challenged at some point in our lives and proven wrong. It wasn't a lie any more than living in as a man all my life was a lie.

This is just how I feel. To leave someone because of a physical change breaks the concept of a soul mate. It doesn't mean the love is not there. There could be immense love, I just don't believe it was soul mate level.

My wife and I love each other very much and honestly, I don't know if I would have stayed with her if she ended up being the transsexual. That doesn't mean I don't love her any less, it just means I was more attached to the physical than I cared to admit to myself.

To all you GG's struggling, don't be afraid to admit to yourself that you are physically attached. It is okay and it is normal.

I had come to this realization when I met with an ex girlfriend recently. She met with me as I am now and she showed me the same level of affection as she did when we had first met so many years ago. I was stunned that a girl that was in love with me as Tom so many years ago could still love me as Tammy. I didn't understand why the woman I chose to live with for the rest of my life could not be that way. It was an eye opening experience. I am not saying the ex is a soul mate either, but the ability to look past the fact that I am now a woman is probably a good start.

I don't blame my wife for her choice either. I am proud of her courage and I support her in her quest for happiness. I still love her very much and want to see her succeed. We get along just as well as we had before had. Sure, sometimes we argue as there is a lot of stress involved in separation, but we work past it, we communicate and we respect each other.

stefan37

10-27-2012, 12:49 PM

My wife and I have been together over 33 years and married 29. We have a loving stable relationship but she is deeply troubled with recent events over the past year. I know she loves me and I her , but she is struggling with the concept of staying in a marriage with a woman. She feels no physical attraction to women and she believes that there will be none for me as physical changes occur. The marriage may or not end , but I would bet the odds that it will not survive rather than us staying together as a couple. We still talk about future plans together and we discuss them, she even talks about how to approach it with others, She is very concerned how other people will react to her. Maybe we are just hanging on to our dreams I do not know.
I have no doubt that we will be able to work this out and remain in some type of relationship. She is the mother of my children, and also my business partner. Those things will not change. She knows I am her biggest supporter and will remain so.
She kinda understands my need to do this, however it does not make it any easier on her. She can see the positive effects in my personality and outlook towards our business and life and it is causing her distress because although I am experiencing a newfound calm and inner peace it is having an opposite reaction to her. It reminds me of a seesaw and I don't know if we can find a balance point. I worry more about her welfare and security than I do my own , and if that means I need to go at a slower pace than I would like I will accommodate her needs to allow her the time she needs to feel comfortable with me while I transition. Hope springs eternal and my optimistic nature leads me to believe we will stay together, but I my gut feeling is it probably will not end that way.

steph1964

10-29-2012, 02:08 AM

First of all, I wanted to thank everyone for their comments. I have read each post several times and have found a lot of valuable information and support. I would love to comment on each post, but the amount of replies has made that impossible.

Since I started this thread, I have been trying to live within boundaries that we set up in order for our marriage to work, and we have moved these boundaries more and more in my favor as Angie tries to see what she can handle. Unfortunately, she has gone way beyond her comfort level, and I have not reached the point where I feel I need to be. We are best friends and love each other dearly, but we have come to the realization that there may not be a common ground where we can both be happy.

In preparation for a possible separation, we have decided to tell my family. Angie’s family lives locally and knows, but we hadn’t told mine because they live out of state. In the last couple of days we told my older sister and her husband, then one of my brothers and his wife. They were all very supportive. Both my sister and brother cried and told me that they were very sad that I had to live with this all my life and that I did not feel able to share my burden. They said that they will love and support both of us in whatever decision we make, and they will be there for me however far I decide to go. We will tell my other brother and my parents next weekend.

Despite being obviously very sad about what is happening, Angie has been very supportive this entire process. She has become very good at explaining this in a way that helps people understand and accept it. I am sure that the acceptance of my sister and brother was in part because of Angie’s explanation. She will be flying to the Bay Area with me to tell my parents. We have not given up on our marriage yet, but whatever the outcome, I feel confident that we will always be close.

gonegirl

10-29-2012, 03:56 AM

Dear Steph and Angie,

I'm so sorry for you both that you must endure this pain. The fact that you are enduring it in partnership is testiment to your love. You truly have a very special relationship and I have a feeling that everything will work out for you both, some way, some how. Hang in there.

Mac.

ReineD

10-29-2012, 04:20 AM

Unfortunately, she has gone way beyond her comfort level, and I have not reached the point where I feel I need to be.

Steph (and Angie, if you're reading this), what are the boundaries exactly? Outside of transition (which I gather hasn't been decided on yet), what are Angie's current limits, and where do you feel you need to be right now, Steph?

angies GG

10-30-2012, 02:17 AM

Bree-asaurus

10-30-2012, 02:28 AM

ReineD

10-30-2012, 02:01 PM

I know its dumb but shaving is still a huge thing for me. Its all about what it represents. Also leaving the house and going out in the real world. I can somewhat tolerate going to on meeting a month. But that probably doesnt satisfy stephs need to pass in the real world. In addition to all of that steph probably feels female on the inside. Yes its still the same person, but becoming aware of the inside persona is another thing I cant deal with from a HUSBAND. None of these would be an issue for me if it wasnt my spouse.

OK. I'm going to say something that is advice I would give to any wife, assuming that until her husband has decided without a shadow of a doubt that he is TS, then there is a chance that he might not be ... even though we are in the TS section of this forum. It is rare that a wife posts in her husband's thread in the TS section, but it is what it is.

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, but whether Steph is TS or not, she does need to leave her closet. Non-TSs leave their closets too, for example my SO is not TS (not planning HRT or SRS), but s/he is more than just an occasional CDer who is happy putting on girlie clothes and staying home. S/he needs to interact with others as herself. This is a natural progression for MTFs who are gender non-conforming, and so he has constructed a life for herself where she does this fluidly - she goes out on a regular basis, while at the same time protecting his male life since most people do not understand this - and this means looking the part: i.e., not having male tell-tale signs such as hairy legs & chest, and a beard shadow. A TS wants the same thing (no body hair, no beard), but a TS also wants to not live as a man at all, ever, and eventually wants to modify her entire body as well (breasts and a vagina).

If my SO were in a relationship with a GG who put the brakes on his need to express herself fully, this would be unbearable to her/him. S/he would not be happy and he would need to find a way to express herself no matter how much he loved his SO. Just because s/he is not TS does not mean that feminine gender expression is an option, nor is it a fetish or a "hobby". The only way that s/he can maintain a healthy balance with his gender duality (for lack of a better word), is to have the ability to express her femininity whenever s/he feels the need to do this, which works out to a few times per week. S/he has a rather busy schedule and s/he is also invested in his career and other things that he is interested in.

This is really hard to explain. :p

So anyway, you have choices:

1. Not accept Steph's needs, which might (or will?) cause the two of you to break up, or cause Steph to stay in the marriage but be deeply unhappy.
2. Accept Steph's needs to see where this will all lead.

If you choose option 2, one of two things will happen:

A. Steph will cease to be frustrated with his current inability to be herself and she will eventually find a balance given your needs too. There will be a separation between male and female lives, since this is the only way that someone who is not fully TS can live in our current society.
B. Steph will eventually decide that she is TS and will want to live full time. If this happens and you are not OK with being in a lesbian relationship then you will divorce.

So. If you do want to attempt saving your marriage, the only viable option is (2A), because each of options (1) and (2B) will spell the end of your marriage. This will mean a great deal of stretching and deconstructing gender (moving away for the idea that all people are either fully male or fully female) on your part and I don't know if you can do this or not. But, it is necessary if the two of you will find a way to stay happily married, where both your needs will be met.

Blah! I hate typing something like this in the TS section, because I know that many TSs do not believe in the idea there are varying degrees or different types of gender dysphoria.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-30-2012, 02:41 PM

sandra-leigh

10-30-2012, 03:30 PM

This is not dumb at all. These are your feelings. This is about your marriage, the issues that make you uncomfortable in your marraige are for you to decide!!

I agree.

I would add, though, that when it comes to thinking about the future, thinking about what things "surely" would be like later, sometimes it works best to "let things slide" for a while and see how matters really turn out. For example there was a time when I would not have considered Going Out without a wig (wigs didn't thrill my wife); eventually wigs became of little importance to me as I grew more confident in myself. Feelings change (on both sides), and anticipating now what you would feel like in the future might not be productive.

I cannot emphasize this strongly enough, but whether Steph is TS or not, she does need to leave her closet.

Oh my, yes indeed.

The dumb risks I took to be out without being out. I was able to skip any one occasion but the drive just became stronger.

If you choose option 2, one of two things will happen:

A. Steph will cease to be frustrated with his current inability to be herself and she will eventually find a balance given your needs too. There will be a separation between male and female lives, since this is the only way that someone who is not fully TS can live in our current society.

When the balance is found, there might not necessarily be much separation between male and female lives remaining. You might not have told your second cousins; and Steph might not go to work in a skirt or dress (but that might be eating away at Steph even as Steph lives with it as being a practical necessity.)

ReineD

10-30-2012, 04:45 PM

I
When the balance is found, there might not necessarily be much separation between male and female lives remaining. You might not have told your second cousins; and Steph might not go to work in a skirt or dress (but that might be eating away at Steph even as Steph lives with it as being a practical necessity.)

We can imagine any of hundreds of different scenarios that would fit the description of "when the balance is found". The importance is, if they both want to save their marriage, they need to genuinely get on the same page with this like my SO and I have, no matter where that balance is. For some couples like Kathryn and her wife it is transition. For other couples in the CDing section it is a DADT arrangements. WE know that DADT is not acceptable to Steph, and transition is not acceptable to Angie (and may not be acceptable to Steph), so there is a wide range of things that are somewhere in between the two.

If either Steph or Angie is not happy with the "balance" wherever it might be, then there is no "balance". But until they start working towards this they cannot determine where the balance will be and how they will feel as they move along, so it is useless to try to guess what either of them will want or might feel before they've even started.

Thera Home

10-30-2012, 06:13 PM

Hi Steph and Mrs steph

Im saddened that your marriage may end because of what Steph may be going though. I suspect that this fog was fed unknowingly by the Mrs allowing her husband to go with his feelings from the beginning and steph taking full advantage of this generosity has now become an untamable beast.
Steph, picture this, if you decide to go this route and eventually dissolve your marriage because this desire has blinded you, when you get old and ugly like me and not beautiful anymore, things start sagging,leaking,aching,hurting and the desire can't be fed anymore, will you be happy being alone, being a transformed man and wishing you had your wife with you? You say you talked to an old girlfriend and she's looks like she'll accept you for who are. Not, women will never accept a man that dresses like a woman or wants to be a woman for a mate. Most of the women will tolerate it to a certain point if youre a loved one but not much more than that. You really need to think about it and make sure this is what you want.

Question is ...Will you sacrifice your desire for your wife and stay with her or not?

Thera

steph1964

10-30-2012, 06:59 PM

You say you talked to an old girlfriend and she's looks like she'll accept you for who are.

Thera

I was going to ignore you but at least get the person right. I didn't post this, someone else did.

sandra-leigh

10-30-2012, 07:17 PM

I was going to ignore you but at least get the person right. I didn't post this, someone else did.

I'm not positive but I think Thera might be confusing you with ThisIsBob and a thread over that-a-way (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?182654-Venting-Oversharing-Time)

stefan37

10-30-2012, 07:38 PM

Thera you are so off the mark it is alarming. You have absolutely no idea how gid affects individuals.
I highly doubt either one enabled each other or even took advantage of one another. Look at another way. Angie allowed Steph
To be herself and that freedom allowed her to achieve some level of balance. At that point the fog lifted and steph was able see with clarity there was an element missing that caused her distress. She took steps to alleviate the distress but that comcort level
Was outside the comfort level of her wife. Whether they can remain a married couple will depend on their induvidual comfort
Levels. Gid affects each in different ways and we all deal with it in our own comfort level. What is obvious from.both members they lo e each other and are looking for a way to keep their marriage intact. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
iris

Kaitlyn Michele

10-30-2012, 08:14 PM

It is hard to read your posts Thera

They have so much ignorance, ugliness and malice that its hard to reply other than to say that I pity you for how badly you hate yourself

Badtranny

10-30-2012, 08:40 PM

It is hard to read your posts Thera

In her defense (?) It's hard to fault a person for not understanding TS issues. There are not very many of us after all, and there are people walking the planet who still think homosexuality is a choice.

I meet people everyday who think that I just decided to become a woman one day. I don't even bother explaining what it really means to have GID, it's like trying to explain why I'm so cute.

Bree-asaurus

10-30-2012, 08:44 PM

In her defense (?) It's hard to fault a person for not understanding TS issues. There are not very many of us after all, and there are people walking the planet who still think homosexuality is a choice.

I meet people everyday who think that I just decided to become a woman one day. I don't even bother explaining what it really means to have GID, it's like trying to explain why I'm so cute.

Yes, it's hard to fault a person for not understanding.

It is VERY easy to fault a person for not understanding, not listening and ASSUMING they somehow are the supreme authority on the subject.

It wouldn't be an issue if the people who didn't understood actually had the audacity to LISTEN!

Edit: Especially when... you know... they are right in front of someone who might actually know a little bit more on the subject than them...

STACY B

10-30-2012, 08:46 PM

In her defense (?) It's hard to fault a person for not understanding TS issues. There are not very many of us after all, and there are people walking the planet who still think homosexuality is a choice.

I meet people everyday who think that I just decided to become a woman one day. I don't even bother explaining what it really means to have GID, it's like trying to explain why I'm so cute.

You got that right ,,,Why are you so cute ? But anyway ,,Back to the splaing ,,, If we did that we wouldn't have time to do nothing else ,, I think the only people that deserve an exsplanation are the most important people in our lives ,,The rest can just look it up on the internet ! Now ,,, Tell me how did you get so Cute >??

Badtranny

10-30-2012, 09:22 PM

You got that right ,,,Why are you so cute ? But anyway ,,Back to the splaing ,,, If we did that we wouldn't have time to do nothing else ,, I think the only people that deserve an exsplanation are the most important people in our lives ,,The rest can just look it up on the internet ! Now ,,, Tell me how did you get so Cute >??

Hey Stace, you've been spoutin' out an awful lot of "we" lately. Did I miss the thread where you came out as a bonafide TS? If so I think that is fantastic, you're crazy enough and ballsy enough to make it work!

Kathryn Martin

10-31-2012, 05:20 AM

To answer your question:

1.) I never cross-dressed in my life; after I decided to transition I dressed appropriately.

2.) I began the long process of bringing my body into congruence when I was nine years old.

I threw out my male clothing the night before I transitioned and that was that.

So I am afraid I fail to see your point.

STACY B

10-31-2012, 05:23 AM

Hey Stace, you've been spoutin' out an awful lot of "we" lately. Did I miss the thread where you came out as a bonafide TS? If so I think that is fantastic, you're crazy enough and ballsy enough to make it work!

Show Nuff ,,, You didn't get the Memo ? Hell I'm on my way to the Ol Doc again next week ,,, Pretty soon I'll be on my way to ,,,, I'll never look as good as yall do ,, But I'll give it a shot !!

EnglishRose

10-31-2012, 08:14 AM

Just trying to understand the Hypocrisy I have been reading here.

Please try to understand WHY I asked this question.

First outline where you see the hypocrisy, please, because I fail to see how a "MtF" transsexual who used to dress in women's clothing, while looking male, is being hypocritical now.

melissakozak

10-31-2012, 08:21 AM

So anyway, you have choices:

1. Not accept Steph's needs, which might (or will?) cause the two of you to break up, or cause Steph to stay in the marriage but be deeply unhappy.
2. Accept Steph's needs to see where this will all lead.

If you choose option 2, one of two things will happen:

A. Steph will cease to be frustrated with his current inability to be herself and she will eventually find a balance given your needs too. There will be a separation between male and female lives, since this is the only way that someone who is not fully TS can live in our current society.
B. Steph will eventually decide that she is TS and will want to live full time. If this happens and you are not OK with being in a lesbian relationship then you will divorce.

So. If you do want to attempt saving your marriage, the only viable option is (2A), because each of options (1) and (2B) will spell the end of your marriage. This will mean a great deal of stretching and deconstructing gender (moving away for the idea that all people are either fully male or fully female) on your part and I don't know if you can do this or not. But, it is necessary if the two of you will find a way to stay happily married, where both your needs will be met.

Blah! I hate typing something like this in the TS section, because I know that many TSs do not believe in the idea there are varying degrees or different types of gender dysphoria.[/QUOTE]

This is the arrangement many of us have. I have a separate apartment, separate lives and separate relationships with other friends who know me mainly as my femme self. IT CAN WORK.

Kaitlyn Michele

10-31-2012, 08:44 AM

Snow

There are many transsexuals that have never crossdressed (of course there are many crossdressers that never crossdressed!!)

First off, if you want to get into an argument, you need to understand your terms... you are misusing the concept of hypocrisy and because of that you really don't make a point that is understandable...

+++++++++++++

There is a distinction between the act of a genetic male putting on women's clothes (crossdressing) and the idea that a person is a crossdresser... guys that wear girls clothes on halloweens are crossdressing but they are not crossdressers..

You enjoy something called cisgender priviledge...you are blessed and you don't even know it.. you are blessed with the firm unquestioning knowledge that you are female...(btw so am i)...unfortunately i don't share your priviledge and its had a brutal impact on my life.. a crossdresser is a cisgender person too...altho it can be a fantasy to "go all the way", its not a real wish, its not something a person will go forward with because they know they are male, and they are in fact, ok with being male...they are cisgender...

People that are crossdressers, or in a crossdressing marriage do not share the experience of transsexuals... Things like setting dressing boundries and having limits of feminine expression are appropriate or not based on each relationship...
and whether you can see it or not, advice (no matter how well meaning) to a couple dealing with transsexuality that is based on the experience of a crossdressing couple will doom that couple...Things like boundries are going to be counterproductive for the couple.. i can't blame you and others for not getting that..its not in your experience..

When people have challenged the advice of some crossdressers (this is the ts forum, its our house..that's where steph and angie brought this up), the reaction was incredibly nasty and came from a place that we transsexuals are used too...a place of hatred and ignorance...are you trying to side with the people that are doing that?? i hope not..that's not the impression i get from you

If all i know is how to cook spaghetti noodles, i'd tell you the best way to cook a steak is throw it in a pot of boiling water..and in any case, i would not walk into your house and tell you how its done and act like a troll when you show me how the broiler works

++++

If you really care about Steph and Angie, then you owe them the respect that they mean what they say here...Steph's post did not talk about questioning who she was..she knows...and like most of us she is very upset to know...thats why here title was about trying to accept it... its about trying to accept what "is", and not trying to figure out what "is"...

The approach of setting boundries will not work. It will push the transsexual faster and deeper into the rabbit hole.. The approach that at least has a chance is to let Steph express her femaleness, reduce or mitigate her GID to the point where Angie can feel like her husband is still around, and Steph can feel like Steph...this is a difficult balance, and for many balance is unachievable, but its a loving and caring way to try to keep the marraige intact...

This is the huge difference between transsexuals and pink fog..folks that dream of femaleness as part of their own gender journey are not transsexuals, and contrary to many statements here, they do not ever seriously question whether they are male or female...they may come into this forum and talk about it, they may post fakey posts about hormones and having breasts, and its brutal on their wives because it raises the spectre of transsexuality but they are not SERIOUSLY considering transition (the wife has no way to really know this..which is a big problem that i have no answer for other than for the husband to get his act together)

...I'll bet you a nickel Steph would do anything right now to BE a crossdresser

Badtranny

10-31-2012, 08:51 AM

Just trying to understand the Hypocrisy I have been reading here.

I assume you're referring to our perceived "attitudes" about cross-dressing yes?

I didn't cross dress (outside of bedroom play a couple of times) at all until 2009 when I began to put the pieces together. I was already out as gay by then but believe it or not I never realized that I could actually pretend to be a woman. This very forum is what made me realize I didn't have to pretend anymore, to be a man. I never wanted to be a trannsexual. I wanted to be a woman since I was tiny, but I just didn't think it was possible. There is something very powerful about interacting with people who have lived your own experience.

I give CD's a hard time because I have CD friends that I adore and some of the creepy weirdness that I see posted here make me embarrassed for them and I feel protective. While I may not identify with them, I think they're pretty neat. I tried to be one, and even called myself one for a short time, but the "fun" of dressing up faded in only a few months time. So for a while, I was a CD that didn't like cross-dressing. LOL

Your question is rooted in the idea that being a TS is merely the end of the road for a CD, and that is not true at all. If you could hang out with a few TS girls, you would understand what I mean.

Thera Home

10-31-2012, 09:09 AM

I was going to ignore you but at least get the person right. I didn't post this, someone else did.

So I made a boo-boo:heehee:

Thera you are so off the mark it is alarming. You have absolutely no idea how gid affects individuals.

I guess not Iris. GID? Is this a justification.......I wonder

It is hard to read your posts Thera

They have so much ignorance, ugliness and malice that its hard to reply other than to say that I pity you for how badly you hate yourself

Thank You Professor, Of course I hate myself.........When I screw up or sit back and read all this bullsh*t and not say anything about it.

act like a troll

Now there's a "T" I prefer. Im a troll....................yeaaaa. I ain't purty like you'all.:sad:

Thera

EnglishRose

10-31-2012, 09:18 AM

Thera part of the Bull as you call it is your assumption that any gender dysphoria must be "the fog". It's just not that simple (that's putting it mildly).

ReineD

10-31-2012, 11:06 AM

If you all at one point in your lives dressed as women (even tho’ you still were GM’s)-then that would make you all being cross dressers at one point in your life?

Just trying to understand the Hypocrisy I have been reading here.

Please try to understand WHY I asked this question.

I take it that you are referring to the CD-bashing that occasionally happens here, and you're not insinuating that TSs are not really TSs?

I also don't like to see groups of people put down other groups. I think the world would be a much nicer place if we all learned to understand and accept our differences, and it would be utopia if we could even celebrate one another's differences.

But, not everyone puts down CDers here ... just a handful. That said, the other thread was closed and I question the appropriateness of bringing that discussion into a thread where husband and wife are trying to resolve their issues.

So I made a boo-boo:heehee:

I don't know if you realize how insulting or even hurtful your "boo-boos" are, not to mention the fact that they detract from the issue at hand. This may be all a little game to you (I'm referring to the giggle smiley), but you're in a thread where a couple is having serious issues and I, as a member, would appreciate it if you could put this into perspective.

Aprilrain

10-31-2012, 11:11 AM

with people like Thera around i miss Kate:lol:

Thera, or what ever your real name is, if you think its all bullshit why don't you go away, no one wants you here anyway.

Where are the mods when you need them?

kellycan27

10-31-2012, 11:15 AM

I was basically forced to cross dress for about the first 17 years of my life. My parents wanted a boy, but what they got was me. I am not holding a grudge though.. how could they have known? :)

Thera Home

10-31-2012, 11:46 AM

I don't know if you realize how insulting or even hurtful your "boo-boos" are, not to mention the fact that they detract from the issue at hand. This may be all a little game to you (I'm referring to the giggle smiley), but you're in a thread where a couple is having serious issues and I, as a member, would appreciate it if you could put this into perspective.

The ever so loving Reine

This is a serious issue for me. A man is deciding whether to follow his feelings and visions of grandeur and forget the the woman he made a promise too. Are you OK with that? I call that irresponsibility.I feel that either way steph decides too go(from what Ive read) she's the one going to get hurt. This deal sucks and you know it.

The smiley giggly guy was to myself for blending threads.:D

with people like Thera around i miss Kate:lol:

Thera, or what ever your real name is, if you think its all bullshit why don't you go away, no one wants you here anyway.

Where are the mods when you need them?

:doh:

Put a cork in it, April or whatever your name is.:heehee:

I like you and that why Im here:)

Thera