When should we be considered male or female

[michelleinktown]

At what point in our lives is gender determined? I knew at an early age something was not right. So now that I am comfortable with my gender that I was given, at what point does it become official? When my name changes? When I have the facial surgery? When I have (SRS) the other surgery? When I start hormones? When I start presenting myself in my preferred gender? When all the above have have taken place and the final one is achived? I am not talking legally, I'm talking about when should society accept us as we are.

Michelle

[STACY B]

Personaly ,,,I think when you accept it then it will be . I would beleve ya if you told me so . An you know when its real or a joke . You know in your heart .

[ReineD]

I am not talking legally, I'm talking about when should society accept us as we are.


When there is a great deal more education and understanding about gender diversity. Save for a few scattered cultures throughout the ages, gender variance has been ostracized and it will take time for societies to accept there are people whose internal genders do not match their sex and in the Western world particularly, to stop conflating gender ID with sexual preference.

[michelleinktown]

My reason for asking this question is, my story made national news last week. I have asked my boss when I can so up for work as Michelle since he and management totally accepted this at the beginning. I have been told to not show up as Michelle until it is official with my name change. That to me is not the time when my gender is determined. I live my life as Michelle other than at work and they know it is imminent. My name should be legally changed in about 1 month but it is the point of it all. If I where to change my name without being trans, would I be expected to show up to work in female attire? I don't get the reasoning, the only thing I can think of is lack of education. dam I have a lot of people to educate!

Michelle

[vetobob9]

It might be that your employer wants to give your coworkers time to adopt. Then again, it could also be arbitrary. You will find there are many employers who would not know what to do if one of their employees is trans. A few will be openly hostile and a few will be accepting.
What we have been finding, based on research, is that as employers and management become more informed, they tend to become more accepting about gender identity issues. Very few become entrenched in the anti-trans world view. Regretfully for them, the law is almost never on the side of the entrenched these days.

[Stephenie S]

It's pretty much up to you Michelle. Didn't you read your copy of the rulebook? On page 92, about half way down: "The time of a gender change is left entirely to the individual and not society as a whole". Perhaps yours got lost in the mail. If you apply using the proper forms in triplicate, you can ask for a duplicate copy. I think there might be a small fee for a replacement copy.

Stephie

[Bree-asaurus]

It depends on who you ask. There's no steadfast rule that everyone follows.

What really matters is how you feel.

[Rebecca Star]

I sympathise with anyone who identifies as the opposite sex in their current sex, it must be one hell of a ride, especially seeing the powers that be seem to want to make it hard. And it would seem, even more crazy, when a person has been (for want of a better word) vetoed by, and has received confrimation to their true identity by a therapist...etc...etc

As a seeker of knowledge and someone who I'll admit is naive on this topic.
Would someone mind filling in the blanks regarding the legal requirements (as they are now) in the USA for legally changing one's sex on offical documents etc...etc and at what point does a Government body accept you are offically female or male?

Thanks

[Frances]

Gender if a form of communication. We communication with our gender and the worlds responds in accordance to it. However much you believe you are a woman in your head, if no one sees it, then you are not, for all intents and purposes. What it takes is different from one person to the next. Some need FFS. I passed before HRT (hair removal did it for me). The voice is very important. If the cable guy shows up at your house at 9 in the morning and you are not wearing make-up or that special bra that gives the "illusion" of having breasts, and he calls ma'am without hesitation, you are there. It's like a hit song. It's a hit because people buy it, not because the musician thinks it's good or catchy.

[Bree-asaurus]

I sympathise with anyone who identifies as the opposite sex in their current sex, it must be one hell of a ride, especially seeing the powers that be seem to want to make it hard. And it would seem, even more crazy, when a person has been (for want of a better word) vetoed by, and has received confrimation to their true identity by a therapist...etc...etc

As a seeker of knowledge and someone who I'll admit is naive on this topic.
Would someone mind filling in the blanks regarding the legal requirements (as they are now) in the USA for legally changing one's sex on offical documents etc...etc and at what point does a Government body accept you are offically female or male?

Thanks

Depending on the county, city, state and the local government employees you have to deal with, it can vary.

My experience, therapist writes a letter recommending gender marker change. Lawyer brings this in front of a sympathizing judge who gives you a court order for your name and gender marker change. You bring this to the DMV to change the info on your license, SSA to change it on your SS card and file documents with the county of your birth to change your birth certificate. Some counties will issue a new birth certificate, some will simply add an amended to your existing certificate. SSA and birth cert may require SRS in some areas. There is no hard fast rule that every government agency and official follows across all 50 states.

[michelleinktown]

So they gave me permission to dress as me, Michelle when I go to work tomorrow. When I am out and about not at work I am treated with respect and called Madam or a lady. If I act, dress, look and present myself as a duck that is how I have been referred as.

I never needed their permission to dress as Michelle in clothes that I find comfortable because there is no dress code and I do not wear a uniform. I would have liked their blessing which I got today.

I am tired of being someone I am not.

I also asked that I be called Michelle from this day forward, understanding that it will take some time to adjust and people are going to use my male name until they get used to it.

I will let my employers benefit from being an understanding organization but bottom line is I determine what is going to happen and nobody else. I can be slowed down but never stopped or forced back into a closet because of other peoples issues with trans people.

Oh, the time I became officially a woman and required nobodies approval anymore was on the 23rd Feb 2012 when I went on HRT.

[Jorja]

I am glad to hear that everything has worked out the way you wanted it.

Now to the question of at what point in our lives is gender determined? I think about 365 years old would be a good place in time to figure that out. Don't worry about it. Be whomever you are every day. If others don't like it they can go f*** off.

[michelleinktown]

FOUND IT ---Jeremiah 1:5 in the bible and I am not super religious, however I do believe

[Rebecca Star]

Thank you Bree, for filling in the blank for me :)