Thinking Of Doing A'Tootsie'

[Victoria P]

I'm sure most of us in here remember that great comedy starring the amazing Dustin Hoffman who had to don female attire to score a decent job,sadly I can't recall what job that was exactly but put that down to age LOL.

I have been a Blue Collar type worker for years and finally made up my mind to attend Sheridan College here just NW of Toronto in 2008. I took a Social Service Worker program where I graduated in summer 2009 with 'High Honours' which even surprised me lol.
I have been applying to social type agencies (Salvation Army, St.Leonards, John Howard Society,Canadian Association of Mental health(CAMH) etc to no avail.
I have only had 2 interviews since 2009!

I should have been more aware of the demographic when taking the course,I was at one time one of 4 guys in class that went down to only two.

The Social Work arena is totally over-run by women,(no offence),as it was mostly considered 'women's work,dealing with feelings,compassion,and needs,which of course is a good thing and rather nurturing in itself but many cannot see guys doing it.I being different and think more like a woman thought it was a no brainer and sure thing,boy was I mistaken.I cannot land a job for anything.

I am now relegated to working back in a warehouse starting later today afternoon shift.
Now I have to put on my brave face and 'Do the Caveman" and walk like I had an accident in my trousers,(sorry to be so crude,you get the picture)

and talk as if as if I had a lobotomy in this macho environment and I will hate it.

So how do I score a Social Work job to which I am more suited....?

Do I really have to do like Dustin Hoffman and dress as a woman? -not that I'd mind. I'm just wondering how I go about getting the false ID ,lol.

I am serious i would attend an interview' en femme'!

Sorry to ramble, hugs V xo :)

[KayR]

Hi! Firstly, I am totally unqualified to give a worthwhile opinion. Secondly, If your picture is anything to go by, I think you look really great, and very convincing.
I would hazard a guess that the organisations you are considering working for have a "diversity and inclusion" policy. It would not do any charity any favours if by refusing a CD/TG/TV a job interview, they would be seen to discriminate. So, why not "come out" to a carefully selected organisation, and see what happens? You say you've had little success so far!

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is a longshot, but you might want to look and see if there are opening for social workers who deal specifically with transgendered people. Being trans yourself might be an asset in that case.

[StaceyJane]

Just for the record Tootse was an actress on a soap opera.

[kimdl93]

As Stacy mentioned, Dustin Hoffman's characher become Tootsie to get a try out for a role on a daytime soap. Not exactly a readily available career option. And are there other careers you might be interested in? Sometimes we're self limiting. The same empathy and knowledge that may be appropriate in Social work, may be valuable in other areas as well. Cast a broader net...

[Confetti]

Youre fab and might work to your favor I loved tootsie one ove my all time favorite Dustin Hoffman movies.I had a friend come to my women in business he was not the prettiest but more passable than he thought in a group. Plus gender etc. might be an ass et to hire different person.

[Sandy Banks]

So, how does your voice sound? There are a lot of hurdles to achieve the goal you set...............................................

[NicoleScott]

It just doesn't sound like a good idea to me to be deceptive in any way in an interview.

[bridget thronton]

I would caution about falsehoods on job apps - might be better to be the person you like best (job searches suck)

[Stephenie S]

Don't lie on a job application, but just be yourself. If you are fem, present that way.

But listen dear, your resume needs a makeover. Only two interviews since 2009 is ridiculous. There are companies that specialize in that. Checkout the yellow pages, if they have them in Canada.

S

[UNDERDRESSER]

Some good advice here, if you do decide to go the false ID route, quite apart from the potential legal repurcussions, remember that Tootsie got herself into a bind with that, and keeping up the act almost cost "him" big time.

I'm sure you're not actually talking about pretending to be a GG, the idea of presenting as a CD has some possibilities, I would take the advice from Stephenie , and when you do interview, don't be afraid to let your fem side out, dressed or not.

[STACY B]

Try an get a gender issue related job like a Hot line or something ,,If that dont work Tracy G said Kohls is hiring ,,,lol,,,,

[DeeArel]

First, keep trying. Review your resume.

Second, realize that colleges are big business. They turn out more graduates than the job market can absorb, even for the hot fields for which there are purported shortages.

Third, it is a tough job market for seekers. Employers can be very selective. However, the employed have better luck at getting a job than the unemployed.

Finally, be thankful for the job that you do have and excel at what you do no matter how trivial, low level, or beneath you qualifications you may view it. It enables you to eat, shelter, and put dresses in the closet. As you demonstrate superior performance at your job you may find that you get offered opportunities to advance. Check out your company's job openings and apply for those that interest you. Your degree may be specialized but the skills that you were taught are applicable for a variety of positions.

Approach all potential positions with a postive attitude. Most importantly, be proud of what you currently do. If not, the unintended body lanuage may sabotage you in job interviews.

I started out may years ago in a similar macho environment when I could not find work in my degree specialty. I am still with the organization but have moved up the ladder quite a bit where I get to use those important skills even though I am outside my "field of expertise." The whole time the closet has become overstuffed with dresses.

[Stephanie47]

I cannot express an opinion as to the necessary credentials in Canada. In the USA a social worker needs a master degree to have any chance at getting a decent job. A social worker for a non profit in the USA does not pay well. Government jobs are better, but, they are always the first to be cut back.

I "Googled" and read about the social worker program at Sheridan. It does not appear to lead to a social work degree as I know it in the USA. I base my knowledge that my daughter is a social worker with the required Master's Degree. I also have friends in the field who have Master's Degrees. All the jobs opportunities of my daughter and friends require a formal education from a four year accredited college with a two years post graduate Master's Degree. I noticed your school states graduates from their two year program are entitled to use the title "Registered Social Service Worker." Frankly, in the states that will not get you a social worker job in the classic sense.

[Ann Thomas]

I want to address a different aspect of this. I had to go into blue collar work for income, after being in white collar for decades. I've posted several times about this recently. A few months ago, I had an ok job, and decided if I was to interview at another place, I would do so en femme, even if it was blue collar, and I would continue to go en femme, dressing in female blue collar work attire, as I had been doing for the prior year and a half.

Well, the job opening came up, and I went for the interviews, two of them. I got the job. Yes, they are Neanderthals like you describe, but I simply do not lower myself to their level, but maintain who I am as a Transgender person. That's who I am, and I won't let them take that away from me. Not that I don't joke around, and not that I don't laugh with them at appropriate times. (I'm not the severe distant type.) I'm not trying to change them either - I just won't let *them* change *me*!

Good luck, sweetheart!

Ann

[celeste26]

Here in the states we have lots of "trade schools" which do not do much more than take your money as it seems the school you attended. I would just consider it a lost cause and begin looking for something more substantial. My mother was a social worker and she too had a master's degree. It seems likely that the Sheridan school sold you the idea but not the actual thing. Unless they also have a master's program that you can matriculate into just consider it a very expensive lesson and get on with life.

[max]

You must have forgotten your male privilege card at home. Pull it out on your next interview and you should get the job.

[Victoria P]

Male privilege card? do I sense a little sarcasm here .....? ....lol.
FYI- I never had anything handed to me or got to where I wanted so far.....but I'm not done yet

:)

[max]

do I sense a little sarcasm here .....?

Yep! Looks like your sensors are functioning properly :)



FYI- I never had anything handed to me or got to where I wanted so far

Yeah that was also kinda my less-sarcastic point. I wish you the best in your search.

[Sophia Claire]

False IDs are a bad bad BAD idea. How long do you intend to work at this job once you have it? Years, I'd imagine. You're going to be able to keep your secret for that long without slipping once? You could say that I'm a professional secret-keeper, so I know something about this. I can tell you that, to paraphrase edward norton, on a timeline long enough, the survival rate for every lie drops to zero. Eventually even the best liar (and that's what you'll be if you falsify your forms, sorry to say) slips up. This is not ideal.

[RachelRICD]

I currently work en femme for a health care agency full time. They were aware when they hired me that I was a CD and since I was the most qualified I was hired. It can be done if you are totally up front, present a good female image and realize it's hard work being female every day. Honesty is your best policy and tenacity also. Keep at it and you will succeed.

[Rebecca Star]

The Social Work arena is totally over-run by women,(no offence),as it was mostly considered 'women's work,dealing with feelings,compassion,and needs,which of course is a good thing and rather nurturing in itself but many cannot see guys doing it.I being different and think more like a woman thought it was a no brainer and sure thing,boy was I mistaken.I cannot land a job for anything.

That's one of the issues most women fail to see, as much as they protest to being discriminated against, it also happens to men too. How many guys are a nurse in an all girls school for instance? I dare say none!

The list where guys are discriminated against on their sex runs deep and long.

[Alberta_Pat]

Victoria;

Firstly, 2009 is a long way back in the scale of "Social Work". You may wish to check for "upgrading" or "refresher" courses. To improve your chances, you need to show that your knowledge is current.

Secondly, You may have to consider relocating to an area with more chance of employment. Review your "specialty" in the field, then search out those opportunities.

When re-evaluating your resume, think outside the box. Look at the skills you have gained in other aspects of your life. Whether these come from work, hobbies, or volunteer aspects, they all have a bearing on how you would be able to perform your assigned tasks. Emphasize those that you are strongest in.

"Social Work" is a management skill. Do you have other management experiences? Work, associations, clubs?

One place where your "gender" would be a benefit would be working with disabled people. I am not sure what the program is in Ontario, but in Alberta, there is the "AISH" (assured income for the severely handicapped" program. Here, there are few families on the books for this. It is more of a daily living skills and support program and ensures that folk with disabilities can obtain the resources, both financial and social, that will benefit them.

Again, you need to make yourself stand out from the crowd just to get an interview. What are your language skills? Would you benefit from taking a language course or two? With Canada's increasing immigrant population, this alone could put you into a better situation. English and French are pretty much standard requirements. Perhaps a course in Mandarin or Cantonese. Hindu or Urdu may be better choices though.

Anyhow, I wish you the best in finding this satisfying position in the near future.

[LeslieSD]

A lot of suggestions here make good sense.

Economy is not doing very well. But there might be something you can do to get more interviews. Update your resume, expand your search into other type of positions, or expand the geological areas you are looking. The reason you are not getting many interviews is probably not because your having a male name (actually you gender information is not in your resume).

When you get that interview, going in en femme or in male mode is up to you. Going en femme does give them an addition issue to consider. It might help you, but most of the time it might not. If you need that job enough, you know what to do. After all, you time after work is all your time. Why do you have to dress at work?

I may be straightforward, but it is just my opinion for your reference. You have you make you own decisions.

[Victoria P]

Thank you much Rachel, I am a but scared if people find my real male name as I am sort of known in the music business to an extent, so I'm now having second thoughts.

How did you do it?
I'd love to discuss this in private,if you also wouldn't mind?
I very much admire your courage hon

Big Hugs and thanks much for not being a naysayer,

Vicki xoxo :)

[Victoria P]

Fascinating experience you have Rachel I'd like to ask more questions some time as to how you were treated and are thought of in general.I know being female is not easy,I can move,walk and gesture as a femme person but it's the voice which is quite deep that I have a problem with,I can only do it for shorts periods of time.

Hugs Vicki xoxo

[5150 Girl]

Well,,,, in this econamy ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I wouldn't provide a fake ID, but if you're full time or are about to go full time, I'd go in and say that you're TG and taht you think that gives you rare insights into the needs of many more people.

And I have to admit, I have thought of doing the Tootsie thing myself. For starters, I don't know if it's just wishfull thinking on my part, but, it seems to me that people respond better to me en-fem than when I'm ugly. Also because with afirmitive action/non-discrimination policies, and what not, I think beeng TG may have it's advantages.

Yea, I see some simularites to Tootsie, however, her name was actuly Dorthy Michals.... Tootsie (actually I think it was just Toots) anyway, was a name a sexist pig called her on the set, to wich, she responed most unfavorably...
And it really wasn't so much a soap gig Dorthy was looking for, as it was ANY GIG.... As Michal Dorcy, he had pissed off every director and writer in town with his ad-libbing and overly opinionated attitude, thus making himself un-hireable.

[Annette Todd]

Well, this is kind of irrelevent to the intended topic but... Dustin Hoffman's character and subsequently inventing Tootsie was to land the job of nanny to his children. The Hoffman (male) character was a voice actor for animated movies and was viewed by the court as being unsuitable. Therefore, the only way he could spend time with the children was to assume the identity of a kinldly older woman. He enden up landing a job as the host of a children's television show. Sorry, I just have seen the show several times.

On topic, then. I have to think there is more to the story concerning your difficulty in finding employment in your chosen field. Maybe there is something in your resume that just doesn't shout "HIRE ME". Try seeking a resume specialist to work up a resume that will get you noticed. Also there are many factors that employers look at that, in my opinion, should be irrelevent to the selection of a candidate who is capable and qualified to do the job. Ie. financial or background. A social service organization is bound to take extreme precation to prevent hiring a potential problem. I have no idea if that may be you and am not trying to imply that. However, you are the best qualified to know what your potential limitations are. If it is strictly your resume, you can fix that.
I would hesitate in presenting to a potential employer anything but a positive and completely honest representation of yourself. Any attempt to desive or misrepresent will spell disaster for you landing the job you want.

As a student of Human Resources, that would be my advice to you Victoria.

You present a lovely feminine image. Enjoy it but don't try to use it to decieve. Than stuff only works in fantasy and the movies.

Best of luck

[michellecd9999]

Annette, I think you are mixing up the movies. The one you described was Mrs Doubtfire with Robin Williams who impersonnated a female to be with his kids. Tootsie was to land a job in TV.

Funny, I have been looking for a few months for a job since my own business is off. I have been self employed for 15 years, but prior to that spend 20 years with a Fortune 500 company and I have an MBA. I am now in my mid fifties, white and hetero. I have applied at several companies in my industry that I worked in previously, but can't even get an interview. I have told my wife (who does not know about Michelle) that I would probably at least get an interview if I was 10 year younger or a member of some minority, or a female. I jokingly thought about putting my resume on Monster or Careerbuilder with the same experience but claim to be female (use a female name) just to see if I would get some more interest. Then I thought, what if someone was actually interested and wanted an interview. Well, I would just HAVE to tell my wife about my little experiment and to get the job I just HAVE to dressed up, get a wig and be as passable for the interview as I could!! And then, what if they hired me?? I would have to get a whole new wardrobe.... Oh my, what a predicament!! (he-he!)

[Victoria P]

Wow some interesting replies some nice and some not quite so nice possibly on the edge of bitchy perhaps?

I only considered this as I am not at all a dishonest person in the least and know that attempting to pass in every way would be hard with a deep voice like mine,yes I can do the woman voice well but cannot maintain it for that long.

However not to knock my natural femininity as I know it is a part of me,I did consider using my own male name,however now I'm looking at different work.

So those who sent kind words I thank you for your encouragement and those who did not well........go bake a cake or something LOL!!