Alright ladies I need opinions :)

[Ashlie Marie]

Hey everyone, so I had my yearly physical the other day and I am fit as a fiddle well a chubby fiddle but it's kewl. So my doctor was talking about my breasts and we were talking about my past year on spiro and such and how I wanna plan breast surgery for next year possibly and she told me she will add progesterone in my diet lol to help things along till surgery now I have read everything u can on it some ppl love it some people think its a joke. Money isnt an issue since its on the 4 dollar list but I wanted true opinions from u girls here since I have known a lot of u for a long time. Thanks. Hugs

Ash

[Aprilrain]

There is no good scientific evidence that suggest taking P will improve breast growth. Any evidence is anecdotal and there are far too many variables, Breast growth is so individualized. P does appose E though so you may have to up your dose of E to keep your blood levels the same as what they are now. There is some evidence to suggest P acts as an anti androgen. There is enough evidence to suggest that medroxyprogesterone causes depression that they list it as a possible side effect.

[Traci Elizabeth]

You are asking "the chicken or the egg" question. I have been HRT for over three years. The first two were without progesterone. This last year, I have added progesterone. Does it help? I don't know. My 36C breasts are rounder than they were a year ago but does that have ANYTHING to do with progesterone? I have no earthly idea. They could have rounded out without progesterone as far as I know. Thus "the chicken or the egg" question.

[kimdl93]

I would go along with your provider's advice. Progresterone is a normal and even essential part of hormonal therapy among GGs, particularly those with estrogen dominance (which obviously isn't your situation). But there are some risks to hormones, particulary synthetic varieties. Ask for are bio-identical progesterones rather than the stuff the big pharma companies sell.

[Ashlie Marie]

Yeah Tracy see I have heard that from a lot of girls my too herself is trans and she said the p just puffed them up a bit and rounded them to a better shape. I just feel its. Bad enough us girls are guinni pigs for all this stuff anyways but I don't want to start something and have it do nothing

[CharleneT]

I hope this isn't a stupid question... but you mention being on Spiro, are you also on some form of estrogen ? I ask because if you are not on E, progesterone is not going to do much. Assuming that is the case, you might find progesterone helps, but the chances of that help being "much" is pretty low. Do a search on here for threads about P and you'll find the references etc. But the gist is that the results vary so much that is can only be called a roll of the dice. I would recommend that you stay away from Medroxyprogesterone ( as mentioned above by Traci ) because it does have a bad rep in terms of side effects. Micronized progesterone is a little pricey.... but safer ( Prometrium for example ).

[Traci Elizabeth]

I don't want to start something and have it do nothing

BINGO! I will have my SRS in just over two months and will be glad to eliminate some of the HRT meds and reduce the amount of "Estradiol" I have to take for those exact reasons.

[Bree-asaurus]

I've been off and on progesterone for long periods... no idea if it does anything.

My thoughts, if it doesn't hurt, just do it. If you get your bloodwork done and your estrodiol is within range, there's no worries as to if progesterone is causing estrogen to be depleted.

I don't take it anymore because it makes me depressed.

[Ashlie Marie]

Bree is funny you mention the depressed feeling. My wife keeps joking that if I add P I will get ultra moody during her period week. Charlene here there are no stupid questions. Well maybe sometimes lol we are a bunch of women after all lol. Anyways I am taking E yes I was doing a small does of E all alone for the first almost year then when I switched to my new clinic my awesome doc ran all my labs and then she added the Spiro and turned up my E a tiny bit and I have been like that now for almost 2 years. So I thank you all for this little chat. I read so many things and other posts but talking back and forth is way more fun. I think When I see her for my IPL appt next month I will tell her to send in my scrip. :-)

[CharleneT]

The good news is that you are in what is often thought of as the target zone for use of Progesterone to improve breast development ( at least 2-3 years of HRT ). Good luck with it, just don't expect toooo much.... but then again, for some it really is the thing that helps. As well, it is a goooood idea to try HRT for a few years prior to AM, as you might just get what ya want thru MotherNature ;)

Someday, they'll figure out why there is so much variation O_o !!

[Badtranny]

Give it a try Ash, I was on a pretty high daily dose of Medroxyprogesterone (pills) for about a year instead of an T-blocker. I think it helped, and it definitely didn't hurt at all. No depression, no mood swings. Occasionally I would go down to the shelter and punch a kitten in the face, but I have tiny fists so it was really no big deal.

[StephanieC]

My doctor suggested P appears to be more effective when you are young. And I think he mentioned some potential reactions. So I went without.

-stephani

[Melody Moore]

I am on progesterone and am a 16C in cup size & personally do believe it does make my breasts fill out more.

[Kathryn Martin]

I have started prometrium after 22 months of hormone therapy. I found this document which I feel might add to this conversation.




Progestogens:

The second hormone that is a part of a feminizing HRT regimen is a progestogen. Progestogens come in two basic forms, Progestins and Progesterone.

Progestins are synthetically produced. The main form used for feminizing HRT is Provera (medroxyprogesterone). Its original purpose was to help women shed the uterine lining at the end of their periods, in an attempt to relieve or prevent the symptoms of endometriosis (when the uterine lining is not completely shed it can cause adhesions & pain). While Provera can assist with some development of breast lobuloalveolar tissue, it does so only in a very limited way. Provera is molecularly similar to Testosterone, rather than Progesterone, so it exerts an androgenic effect which can inhibit mammary growth to a small degree. Provera is not progesterone and should not be considered one by doctors or patients. Often medroxyprogesterone is referred to as “the progesterone” on some brands of estrogen/progestogen combination medications. This is not the case, and patients should be very careful to read the ingredients of any combination medications a doctor may prescribe for feminizing HRT.

Provera has side effects that anyone taking it should be aware of, such as influencing the emotional state of the patient in various ways. Provera has a well-documented reputation for aggravating and/or causing depression, all too often to suicidal levels. Anyone who has ever had even mild depression should avoid Provera. It also has the effect of causing wild mood swings, from giddy highs to suicidal lows, with unpredictable emotional outbursts. Some doctors insist that these mood swings are natural for TS people to experience while on HRT, but it is not so. They are often the reactions to the influence of Provera.

Provera has a mild to moderate impact on liver stress, as it is a complex molecule, more similar to Testosterone than Progesterone and is difficult for the liver to process. Provera can cause some virirlization (masculinization) due to its similarity to Testosterone. It has a reputation for causing and aggravating stomach discomfort, so it is often taken with food to reduce such stress. Depo-Provera is the injectable form of Provera, and may reduce some impact on the liver and stomach, though the mood effects are not changed by the method of introduction.

Provera counters beneficial effects of estrogen on heart resulting in an increased health risk. It is also associated with a higher risk of breast cancer in genetic women than Prometrium. Depo-Provera can cause visual disturbances. And the fact that it remains in the body for so long can be serious for people who experience side-effects.

Progesterone is a naturally occurring hormone in the human body. HRT sources of progesterone are primarily produced by extracting progesterone from yams. The progesterone is micronized (chopped into microscopic particles) into a powder then usually suspended in peanut oil and inserted into caplets. There is an allergy concern for those people allergic to peanuts to not take progesterone suspended in the peanut oil (this may seem like common sense, but common sense isn’t all that common). The progesterone used in Canada and the USA, goes by the trade name Prometrium, while in Europe, it goes by the trade name Utrogestan. There are other forms of progesterone under other trade names, just be careful to make sure it is progesterone and not a synthetic progestin.

Progesterone is essential for proper lobuloalveolar development in TS women. Progestins just don’t stimulate this growth to any serious degree nor does an HRT regimen of strictly Estrogen therapy. It is normal for Progesterone to increase the size and darken the aureolas, increase the overall size of the nipples and help the breasts develop a fuller, rounder profile.

I found my own development was greatly enhanced when I switched from Provera to Prometrium. My breasts increased significantly in volume and filled out more in the first few months on Prometrium, than the previous 18 months on Provera. Other TS women I have talked to, tend to rave about the growth benefits of Prometrium as well. Prometrium increases breast lobuloalveolar development far in excess of what Provera can accomplish, regardless of the dose of Provera.

Second, there is compelling evidence to suggest that the presence of progesterone as part of an HRT regimen may reduce the risk of developing benign breast lumps and more malignant breast cancer. The risks for TS women developing breast cancer seem to be only slightly higher than that of males and significantly lower than the risk for natal women. The reason is that the monthly cycles that natal women go through is the primary reason for the increase in breast cancer risks. Only 4 cases of breast cancer in transsexuals have been reported in literature, BUT TS women who are deep stealth, refusing to admit to any TS history, who have had breast cancer, won’t have been included in these statistics. Being TS is NOT a “get out of jail free” card, when considering breast cancer risks.

A benefit of Prometrium, which is bioidentical to what is found in humans, over that of Provera, which is not bioidentical, is that Prometrium does not affect the liver or stomach. Prometrium is usually progesterone suspended in peanut oil (or other medium, or even encapsulated dry) neither of which triggers a first pass effect within the liver like oral estrogen does, eliminating the risk of liver stress. Simply put, the liver doesn’t trigger a poison response and treats the medication as food. Peanut oil in the Prometrium caplets increases absorption of the progesterone, and food can also help with absorption. Suppository and pessary (mentioned below) methods of introduction can slightly increase the volume of Progesterone available for the body to use, but are not necessary for safety reasons.

ALLERGY ALLERT. Anyone allergic to peanuts can have Prometrium compounded with a different oil such as sesame or castor oil, or even have caplets made without any oil content.

Prometrium is usually taken orally, though it and other forms of progesterone may be administered by other methods such as suppository (inserted into the rectum), pessary (inserted into the vagina) and IM injection.

There are 2 main schools of thought regarding how to take Progestogens, particularly Progesterone. The first, is the constant method, where a dose of the medication is taken daily. This does work for some TS women quite effectively. However such continuous dosing of Progesterone can reduce the effectiveness of Estrogen slightly. The second method, which bypasses the reduction of effectiveness of estrogen is to cycle the intake of Progesterone. Cycles range from 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, to 3 weeks on, 1 week off and other on/off time limits. The best option is to try out a regimen for 2 to 3 months, see if it works for you and stick with it if it does. If it doesn’t work for you, alter it.

One effect of Prometrium that can be either a benefit or annoyance depends on the outlook of the patient. Prometrium has the effect of increasing the nesting instinct in TS women. The big benefit is that the TS patient may gain a very clean and well-decorated home due to this nesting instinct.

A note regarding comparable doses. 10 mg of Provera is equivalent to 100 mg of Prometrium as far as breast tissue development is concerned. The equivalent dose between Provera and Prometrium for the treatment of Endometriosis is 2.5 mg and 100 mg respectively. Provera is just not effective for the development of breast tissue, and was originally designed for the treatment of endometriosis. The pills are differently sized. Provera (10 mg) tablets are about the size of a shelled sunflower seed. Prometrium caplets (100 mg) are about the size of a pea.

While some doctors are unconvinced of the benefits of progestogens, the evidence indicates that progestogens do have benefits relating to breast lump and breast cancer prevention and assist with proper breast development. Managed carefully for liver stress and mental state, even Provera can be beneficial. The patient needs to be very aware of her reactions to all her medications and be prepared to change regimens to maintain her health.


This information is NOT intended as medical advice. It is merely information gathered over several years, regarding the safest and most effective regimens of feminizing hormone replacement therapy, provided so that each individual may approach her own feminizing hormone regimen as educated as possible. Simply put, the author takes no responsibility for the actions or regimens of other people on hormone therapy, as each person must be responsible for her own health. (AKA do what you want with this info, but remember that you are responsible for yourself & should make efforts to confirm any information contained above).

Copyright (c) 2005 Leslea Herber.
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover Texts. A copy of the license is included in the section entitled "GNU Free Documentation License".

[Marleena]

Ash, the endo I see here in Canada has been treating TS women for years. He always has the same scripts from day 1 consisting of prometrium, T-blocker, and estradiol. My TS group leader recommends him to all of the girls and all are happy with the results. Prometrium does look safer based on Kathryn's post.

[ReneeT]

As others have said, most data is anecdotal, so here's my anecdote. I added progesterone approx 8 months ago, after being on E and spiro for a year. At that point I had significant breast growth (for me) but my breasts had a distinctly tubular shape. Now, after 8 months of P and 20 mos total het, my breasts are much fuller and rounder. They are definitely female in contour, and continue to enlarge, although still within the A range (they are the same size as my 17 yo daughters, and here hrt is endogenous!). So while my sample size is only one, the results from my pre-post treatment analysis is that progesterone is beneficial. I won't be discontinuing it until after my AM.

You mentioned that you were on a "small" dose of E and that your current doc turned it up "a tiny bit". Why are you not on full-dose E? Does your doc follow your levels? Spiro without estrogen is bad news. In addition to sub-optimal femininization, your body is deprived of gonadal steroids, which are essential for normal physiology. Among other things, you are at increased risk of osteoporosis. Talk to your doc. If you need some good resources to take with you, let me know - i will send them to you.

[abby39]

I had growth with E and spiro alone. I never tried the progesterone. My prolactin levels tend to "roller coaster" so it was out of the question. My breasts were asymmetrical and about an A cup. The bigger one anyway. :) So I opted for implants after 3ish years on HRT. For me it was a very good decision...they are spectacular! Good luck!

[josee]

I have yet to start hormones, hopefully in a month or so I will, but have a girlfriend in my local TS group who isn't on here that loves the results she's seen from starting Progesterone about 8 months ago after a year and a half on Estrogen. She was raving about how her breasts have become fuller and rounder since starting.

[Kathryn Martin]

Having grown to a 36C, the actual breasts are still disproportionate to my height and frame which is delicate but clearly at 6'4" not small. Since I don't want to get BA I am hoping to fill out just a little more. Correct size for my frame would be 36 D.