That line between shame and happiness

[NathalieX66]

I haven't posted in a while, discounting the few responses to others' threads.

OK, it's like this:
I dolled myself up to go out and pick up a bunch of magazines and cheap dvd's at Barnes & Noble. I walked in wearing a black halter with rhinestones, crop sweater, women's denim shorts and Roman style sandals with metallic red nail toes, a pair of diamond stud earrings, and my own hair, which is now shoulder legnth. I'm doing away with the wig these days. My own hair makes me feel like a girl. Pretty much no one paid much attention to me, and if they did they didn't care. Fine. Cool. I like that.

I was driving home and, I went into a fit of guilt and rage as to why I can't "just be a normal guy", and fit in with the status quo. It really hurt.

I also happen to live in the deepest of east coast suburbs, where yessterday I was replacing the brake pads on my car in the driveway, and my next door neighbor says "you look like you belong to a pit crew".

Yes I replace brake pads & rotors , and I also sweat copper pipes like the best of any plumber. Manly stuff. Good, I do it. :thumbsup:

Sucks. I prefer to spend my social life as a girl.

My best friend (including his wife & kids) loves my girl side.

The agony I feel is "why can I just be a normal guy like everyone else?"

The answer is "Why would I want to be like the other guys?"

I am happy within myself. I have found my peace.

[noeleena]

Hi,

It goes back to how you accept your self ...or... not.

im a builder by trade. do joinery & cabinat makeing & wood turning , i enjoy that, those things dont change who you are, i do repares to trucks 4 x 4 's what ever, does not change who i am in the least.

you were saying why cant you just be a male. well i dont relate to that because i dont know what a male ....is....& i cant equate to how you feel ,

My maleness for what it is does not register in being a male. looks yes. just not how im wired .

Funny as some time ago a guy said to me why dont you just wear male clothes & be like other guys.

Hmmm..... he did not get to know me , he would see me now & again when i picked up iron for jobs i was working on. other than that would he understand .... a big ... NO.

How to be unhappy missable as hell . yea a great life, like hell i was going to be like that.
Thats why im a woman. not by my choseing not by my reasoning ether.
Im a female / woman by birth. just done over a bit with my maleness some what, All this is not about doing things or working with males , this is about being true to who you are ,

FIRST .....as a person. then as to who you ...ARE...i know what i am & thats it. I dont think about it , i just live it.

Can i just say change your mind set & just accept the way you are & stop worrying about all the other things That are bugging you.

You say your happy & peace with in. are you sure . not what i see you say here, guilt & rage, are saying more than any happyness,

It does come down to really ...REALLY....accepting .... YOU.....

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

You don't have to be like other guys Nat, you only have to be yourself. We all have to find our own comfort level.:battingeyelashes::)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Nathalie, That's a deep question some times I feel the same way.
When Orchid is not around I'm as manly/machoo as the next guy
There's not much that I can't do as a guy.

[reb.femme]

Hi Nathalie,

It's a major split in our lives, such that we deal with the manly side with no issues, (ex-forces, aircraft work and DIY stuff) and yet yearn for the girl inside to have so much more focus. "As you ultimately say, I'm happy within myself".

Well I'm jealous of what you are achieving in your going out, a trail blazer, a product of your self-determination and an inspiration to others.

Having your own hair must be a wonderful feeling. My memory doesn't go back so well to when it was long, the military took that privilege away and then it started falling out after I left. Final thought, having done this myself, those brake pads are a bugger with the finger nails! :battingeyelashes:

Rebecca x

[Saffron]

You only live one life, so better to spend it being what you want to be. You can meet all other people's expectations in the next life.

[Cheryl T]

We're all torn with that question from time to time. That's what creates the urge to purge in so many of us.

Just ask yourself..."What is Normal?".
For me...normal is ME.

[daarleane]

I know how you feel, I am in my senior yeas and I think it is time to put away the tools and let someone else do it, The problem is I just don't know to make it happen. It is very difficult to change a lifetime of practices even when you say you want to.

[Marlana]

Hi Nathalie, I also sometimes wonder the same thing. However, in my case, I don't have the courage to go out all dolled up like you did. So if that's how you feel, and your bestie and his wife love you, fuggettaboutit! You've got friends that care about you. Why be a non-descript part of the pack when you can stand out and be yourself. Go get 'em girl!

[STACY B]

You better have done those brakes in Daisy Dukes ,,lol,,, Hell dont sweat it girly girl,,, We got it made ,,We can fix stuff an look good doing it ,,lol,,, Onlt thing I hate about it is getting dirty,, Like she said hard on your nails ,,I put on long sleaves even if its hot ,,I dont want all that greese an grim on me ,,Takes to long to get it off .

[Marleena]

Nathalie I think all TG people experience this, I know I have and still do from time to time. We are raised based on the genatalia we have. Being TG complicates it for us but we conform and learn to be male. For most of us it's survival instinct to behave and act as the male we were taught to be. Most of us cross the gender line to fulfill a need or longing(however you see it). By doing that it goes against what we're taught and guilt will sometimes get the better of us.

I have moments of WTH am I doing and why am I like this? All I need to do is think of the kids that are born handicapped, deformed, blind, or deaf to realize it could be much worse. That usually does the trick for me. It is okay to question this but we need to accept it is just part of being TG.

[Cynthia Anne]

I block the shame and gilt by reminding myself that I was born this way! It's not my fault! it's good that you can do that work yourself! I do all of mine while dressed!

[Tina B.]

But Nathalie, you are like a lot of guys, us! I'll bet most all have felt that way one time or another.
Tina B.

[Stephenie S]

I think you are buying into the same stereo-typical role models you want to reject when you "dress".

Guys can look nice (if they want to) and women can sweat pipes (whatever that is) if they want to. When I picked up a part to my car the other day at the dealer, the parts guy told me it was nice to see a woman who was willing to work on her car.

He was buying into it too. Really, you can do whatever you want. Saying things like, "I only like girly things", is restricting yourself just as much as what you claim society is doing by restricting your dress.

S

[Laura912]

I was bemoaning the lack of being normal to my wife last weekend. She looked at me, smiled, and said "Nobody promised you a rose garden." A lot of people came with wiring that they would like to change around a bit. Fortunately, ours is benign, at least among this group.

[Alice Torn]

You got guts to go out dressed up. I seldom have done it, over two yrs ago. A for working on cars, I feel like i have spent 19% of my life fighting with my vehicles, and being a bruised, cut, filthy, greasy mess. It is hard to clean up, and look clean enough to portray a lady, but, cleaning up nails polish, and makeup, is a bummer, too. I understand the conflict of maintaining two identities. Like Kate, so often says, integrate them into one accepting person, is a key, acceptance. The Serenity Prayer.

[Sara Jessica]

I can draw so many parallels from your posting Nathalie. As I have said in the past, you and I have a lot of similarities. Family, career, that little slice of heaven in suburbia. That long hair pushing the envelope on so many levels.

Sweating copper? No can do here. I have given that up, my attempts always leak. Changing brake pads? Have done that in the past but really, that's what Midas is for. I have always hated working on cars so it won't break my heart never to do so again for as long as I live.

Now when it comes to home improvement, sign me up. I can lay down any kind of flooring and actually enjoy doing tile. I've torn down walls and custom designed a new kitchen / family room, doing most of the work myself. I've done so much of this in the past and could be so inspired to do more were it not for the fact that I often lack focus these days given the gravity of my TG nature.

But the fact that I know my way around a lot of home improvement stuff doesn't seem like it's an aspect of a "guy" personality or skill-set. Instead, it's simply that I'm capable of doing it. Female in my heart, part-time in presentation, I'm just a person who can do these things.

When all is said and done though, I often have the same rants...why can't I be "normal"? It usually comes on when I'm bearing witness to those who I perceive to be the kind of guy/husband/father that I would be, all things being equal. But after processing it, I know this could never be just as I know I could never box up my feminine nature and put her away. I always come full circle just as you have.

I am happy with myself. I know peace despite the effort that it often takes to balance both sides, finding such fulfillment everywhere I look. I cherish when I am able to get out into this wonderful world as my true self. The friendships made over the years only enhance my being able to find fulfillment. I hate it though that I am not in a place to integrate "her side" more into my everyday life. But you know what is often said, it is what it is.

This is all I know.

[Barbara Ella]

Society has decreed that those activities are manly. Don't tell janet Guthrie or danica Partick that women cant work on cars, I think they might disagree... Glad you are happy with yourself and get to go out like you do and do your life as a woman.

It is a fine line in our thought process that segments activities into manly or womanly. You just keep doing more and more womanly activities, and soon, your next set of pads will be changed in womanly mode. Heck, she is the one who is happy. He is the one worrying. Which way you gonna go?

Hugs, Barbara

[Stephanie47]

This feeling of guilt or shame has been shared by everyone of us because society has taught us men and women are different and act in different ways. I cannot dispute there have been valid reasons for defining roles based on gender. Some of these 'rules' were more applicable in the past. Women give birth and care for children to replenish the tribe. Men, who are naturally stronger/bigger, protect the tribe. There is absolutely nothing wrong these days for a man to be an elementary school teacher or a nurse, etc. There is nothing wrong these days for a woman to be a truck driver, construction worker, mechanic, etc.

I firmly belief there are degrees of the opposite sex within all of us. I do not know if it is genetic imprinting, environmental conditioning, etc. Nobody sissified me when I was young. I was not encouraged, forced or voluntarily played dress up. Our family had no television until age five. No visual stimuli. I did 100% boyish/manly activities when I was growing up. I played baseball, football, roller hockey (no ice Karen), basketball. I collected baseball cards. I got in trouble in school. There was absolutely no external force that encouraged me to try on my mother's slips, which she hung to dry in the bathroom. When it was time to do manly things society called for, I did them. I was in the infantry in Nam and did all those required manly things to protect the tribe or at least the lives of the guys in my platoon and squad.

So, why do I put on a dress, slip, undergarments, heels and hosiery, wig and makeup? There is that percentage of woman in me I call Stephanie. Stephanie arises in times of stress to give her 'twin brother' a time out from the stresses of doing manly things for the tribe. Stephanie does those 'girly' things. Stephanie expresses herself as a woman. She is a stress reliever.

I do not buy into the angle that men dress to the 'nines' because he likes the feel of the fabrics, the colors, etc. Yes, that may be true. However, the inner woman is trying to assert herself.

We feel guilt and shame because we know society frowns on it. We are not conforming. We are trying to suppress that other part of us the tribe has made taboo. I choose not to engage the tribe as a woman and confine myself to the home because I still choose to be a protector for my wife and children. There are negative consequences coming out. Stephanie's role is provide relief from stress. Stephanie is not there to add stress.

For some inner women it may be enough to asset herself occasionally. For some it may be a daily requirement. For some it may be the woman is there 99% of the time and the male genitals are excess package in her life.

Again, if there has been absolutely no external forces ever telling me to dress as a woman, why did I ever start?

[KellyJameson]

I always feel a little sadness for those men who have been successfully masculinized by the world they grew up in when I sense that inner tension inside them of not living truly by forcing themselves to be something they are not,
it is a type of performance anxiety of not being good enough.

They carry so much fear around that they may do something not "masculine"and can become very aggressive when they fail to live up to this "ideal" against
others who may have witnessed their transgression or use addiction to escape their sense of failure. It becomes a non-stop act of selling an image instead of being a person.

The courage you show Nathalie is similar to the courage someone else shows when they give their life to save anothers but in this instance it is to save your own.

Guilt is taught to us by others who are in positions of authority over us, they define how the world is and how we are to fit into it or there will be consequences

Only by using our reasoning minds and placing value on our lives will we be able to confront and transcend this conditioning and every single person faces these moments in life. In my opinion you have been very successful even if there are moments of guilt and rage.

Doing "guy stuff" is "girl stuff" that girls have not experienced, so doing "guy stuff' does not make you less of a girl.

Just as a picture is an image of us but not who we are, "stuff" only gives a hint of who we may be.

Still waters run deep.

These last two weeks I have been working with Habitat for Humanity and easily half of the people here swinging hammers are woman.

[BRANDYJ]

I can remember having those feelings of shame and quilt back in my teens and twenties. I will admit that I still have them now, but not much more then a passing thought. I accepted myself when I was around 35 years old.
I too at times had wished I could just be a normal guy....what ever normal is. How crazy is it compared to what some guys do and find pleasure in. Like wearing a flying suit and jump off a mountain, swim cage free among feeding sharks, hunt and handle deadly poisonous snakes, Race boats and cars at death defying speeds, get in a cage with lions, tigers and other animals that can kill you in seconds with one bite. And you think we are weird or strange? Just how strange are we compared to what other males might do?

[Sarah Doepner]

. . . snip . . .
I was driving home and, I went into a fit of guilt and rage as to why I can't "just be a normal guy", and fit in with the status quo. It really hurt.

. . . snip . . .

The agony I feel is "why can I just be a normal guy like everyone else?"

The answer is "Why would I want to be like the other guys?"

I am happy within myself. I have found my peace.

Nathalie, it does seem that most of us have hit that negative point at one time or another, I know I have. And it should be a concern because it really does hurt. There is confusion, anger and that guilt. I've been thinking the guilt is the biggest component of the overall feeling. But to feel guilty usually requires a sense that there are others who depend on you and you are harming them in some way. It means you care deeply that your choices are going to result in something bad for them. We want to be "like everyone else" because we think that will remove the conflict that's causing the problem. It's not always the case that our gender issues are the source of the problem, but it's easy to latch on to it because it's such a big part of our identity.

You know that gender has nothing to do with the skill sets we posess, those skills just add more flexibility and options for us to use later. They complete us in unknown ways so changing brake parts and knowing how to fix your hair in a nice feminine style may actually be complimentary, just hard to connect at the moment. It may be just more ways to build your confidence so you understand that you really are a complete, unique and totally acceptable person.

I commend you for working through the crisis and finding your peace, it's not easy sometimes to do that and many never do.

[ReineD]

I'm wondering if something specific might have brought on your feelings while you were at B&N. How do you feel you were perceived or treated while you were there, or conversely, did anything not happen that you wish might have?

The other night I also got dressed nicely with makeup. I was feeling listless at home and went out for dinner to a Japanese restaurant, then the local B&N for tea. I'm not sure what my expectations were but the evening was lonely and boring, it felt kinda empty, and the food at the restaurant wasn't even up to par. I ended up coming home early.

[RainyNightGirl]

I think you are buying into the same stereo-typical role models you want to reject when you "dress".

Guys can look nice (if they want to) and women can sweat pipes (whatever that is) if they want to. When I picked up a part to my car the other day at the dealer, the parts guy told me it was nice to see a woman who was willing to work on her car.

He was buying into it too. Really, you can do whatever you want. Saying things like, "I only like girly things", is restricting yourself just as much as what you claim society is doing by restricting your dress.

S

Stephanie, I think the same way as you. Because I can and will do the things are considered manly does that make me just a guy in a dress? Does it diminish by inner femininity that I deeply cherish? I hope not.

I know lots of GGs who can do all of those things too, and they do not consider themselves less feminine or more masculine, they are who they are, I am who I am. I have to say Popeye the Sailorman was a very clever philosopher.

Hugs
Natasha

[outhiking]

In some ways I've come to accept this as a gift that allows me to cross between my masculine and feminine self until I'm comfortable with both. I don't go out dressed, but I do enjoy a lot of "feminine" pusuits like crafting, art, working with small children, even Jane Austen movies. I love to work on cars, but I break more than I fix and as for plumbing, I see now why we hire folks to do it for us :-)

[Sharon B.]

Consider yourself lucky that you know how to do it. My father was hard union man you didn't practice other peoples trades. You took your auto to them. About the only thing I really know how to do is bake and cook with some creativity. That was always a sore point when I was married that I could bake better then the wife at the time. I still enjoy baking now I just think of it being the womanly thing to do. Just wish I had somebody that would appreciate my talents.

[Dawn cd]

First of all, if you were like everyone else, you'd be boring. But the way you are is interesting—you're you—and you add color and style to an otherwise boring world. I wish you were my neighbor.

[JennyDoTell]

Shame and happiness... Two words that don't normally fit into the same sentence. Right now, for me... It's not possible to dress very often as I am staying in a town where everyone knows who I am. Yes, I'd feel some shame or embarrassment if I were exposed. However, when I go home to the large city I live in I am not humiliated in the least to go into Super stores or the B&N dressed and femme. I too enjoy working on cars, the home, playing and watching sports... But, there is also Jenny that makes me happy.

[docrobbysherry]

More like, "Guilt and happiness", for me, Nathalie. Since I came out here, I'm never been ashamed of Sherry! Sometimes, I've even been proud of her!

The guilt comes from all the TIME and ENERGY I spend on her! She's such a demanding and self centered b--, ah--, lady!

[Jennifer Cox]

Hi,

It goes back to how you accept your self ...or... not.

How to be unhappy missable as hell . yea a great life, like hell i was going to be like that.
Thats why im a woman. not by my choseing not by my reasoning ether.
Im a female / woman by birth. just done over a bit with my maleness some what, All this is not about doing things or working with males , this is about being true to who you are ,

FIRST .....as a person. then as to who you ...ARE...i know what i am & thats it. I dont think about it , i just live it.

Can i just say change your mind set & just accept the way you are & stop worrying about all the other things That are bugging you.

You say your happy & peace with in. are you sure . not what i see you say here, guilt & rage, are saying more than any happyness,

It does come down to really ...REALLY....accepting .... YOU.....

...noeleena...

After a very long time I thought I'd accepted myself - then someone (me?) moved the bar higher. Not wishing to make light of anyones distress, but it really is easier for some than others. Deciding to live FT is possible for some but unrealistic for others. Not being in the 'possibles' group makes for a lifetime of unhappiness, regardless of whether we accept who/what we are.

[Kathy4ever]

Maybe it is the depression that you can't stay a girl all the time. It is funny I try and stay away from doing what is called normal guy things but i end up having to do it. ExP. Cutting the grass, fixing things be they are electrical or plumbing are to name a few. I hate getting dirty nowor messing my nails up while before this thing came into my life I enjoyed doing yard work or fixing things. I also know that woman can do those things as well too but In my feable mind that don't go hand in hand. I don't think you should be ashame and just enjoy what you get to do. Hey if you can go in a book store and nobody bats and eye you should feel proud. Your avatar shows me you fit right in to the fem ways. BE PROUD AND HAPPY!!!!

[NathalieX66]

I want to thank you all for the great comments, you are all wonderful!

For a little preface, I was out two nights ago at a burlesque show in Coney Island Brooklyn, NY, a risqué one at that. I was wearing a sun dress, heels, and my wig. It felt great going out, but the reality with this crowd, I was a bit too tame, and perhaps a bit too polished, seeing that my presentation didn't seem to faze anybody....not that I was trying to. I won't mind telling you that wearing the wig made me feel like the average crossdresser, but I did it just to glam things up a bit.

Now, last night I went out in my own hair on a shopping excursion, still makeup & eyeliner, but more average woman. It feels more "me" this way.

I'm sure for those who do have the opportunity to get out once in a while, you feel a certain harmony within , and everything is just fine. You doll up, you go out, you come home and put the wig and forms away, and it's back to your normal routine. With me, it got beyond that. Nowadays, I let my hair fall down my shoulders, trim my eyebrows, wear earrings, and flip-flops with red or purple nail polish pretty much all the time. Four years ago, I never saw myself doing any of this. I was about as boring, buzz-cut guy as many guys typically are. The issue is not what is normal or what isn't normal, it's more the fact that sometimes I still feel out of place in a world where crossdressing is not a typical thing. Even though I have been treated great and wonderful by everyone I have come in contacted with, sometimes I still feel alienated. The shame episode I came home from B&N was fleeting and soon dissapeared....but it arose none the less. No matter how "me" I try to be, sometimes certain negative feelings still emerge.

Noeleena wrote:

My maleness for what it is does not register in being a male. looks yes. just not how im wired .
Noeleena, I get that. I have quite a few friends who are transsexual, but in my case, it's not quite like that.

Cheryl T wrote:

We're all torn with that question from time to time. That's what creates the urge to purge in so many of us.
No matter how confident or good we feel, or how good we feel being ourselves, we still have to deal with the fact that this is not an easy thing to cope with.

[Jennifer Cox]

With me, it got beyond that. Nowadays, I let my hair fall down my shoulders, trim my eyebrows, wear earrings, and flip-flops with red or purple nail polish pretty much all the time. Four years ago, I never saw myself doing any of this.

Pretty much how it hit me too!