moral question

[erica12b]

here is one of those ,thought to think about, as a straight guy and just divorced i dont have many gg in my life(0) and its hard to date, as a cd i like to look good and share my pic . and as a hot pic i get 3 to 10 guys making advances on me thru my yahoo profile, e-mail, im's i tell them no thank you and go on with my day, here is the rub as a lonly guy i just want some company, as a cd i want some one to share my thoughts with , the only ones wanting to get together are tvs or gay guys that say they will treat me like a lady, at what point did i start to think that it would be ok , what point did i start to hate the gg's that wont talk with me becase i dress , and at what point did i start thinking about doing somthing with another guy , im close now and trying to make sence of my thoughts . what are some of your thoughts?

erica+?

[Kimberly]

Be who you want to be... And only rely on those you can trust - for now.

If you feel like you want to try experimenting sexually, do so: there's no harm in it. If you find you don't like being with a guy, then don't do it any more.

It'll probably take a lot of soul searching (within yourself,) but deep down you know who you are, and what brings you pleasure.

Hope everything goes well xx

[Sarahgurl371]

Erica,
I would say that you have a pretty serious question. My take, if you want to be with a man or another CD, not dating a GG has nothing to do with it. You would not be alone in that area, I think from reading alot of personal sites, that many CDs experiment with bisexuality. If that makes you happy, do it. No matter who you get involved with, guy or girl, just be safe. And don't do anything that the little voice inside your head can't live with.

[Shannon]

Erica -- it is a dilemma, and my personal experience has been more like a pendulum -- there are times when I'm most interested in straight hetero with a GG and me in drab, to being with a GG and me en femme, and to being with a guy and me en femme. I never have been interested in being with a guy and me en homme.

My own philosophy and view keeps it out of the moral/religious realm for me personally. I'm willing to experiment, learn for my experiences, narrow and broaden my willingness to try new things based on past experiences, and keep growing. Not to make light of this at all, but as Mae West said, "When given the choice between two evils, I go for the one I haven't tried" (or she said something along those lines).

The single biggest thing I learned from my bi-sexuality and experiences is that I'm not physically or emotionally attracted to men -- being with a man usually helps me get a pleasurable twist on my feminine experience. I've become much more selective and discreet as well.

And above all else, be safe and be careful. Search your heart and follow it...and keep your brain engaged at all times.

[erica12b]

thank you all in most of my posts i ask a questions ,and in all most all of your replyes everyone i should just be myself (it is the hardest to be ) im going to half to think about this one a while it could be fun or not hmmm

[Jesse69]

I know it's immoral to be a crossdressor and that's as far as I go. I would never do a man while dressed up in drag - I think that's really bad. Of course if I were a real woman then I would be really horny with men. But as a guy - when I look at other men - I say to myself - "I can never do that." I just don't like men and only like women. But I do have fantasies of being a real woman doing a man - no harm in that.

[Julie]

I was so uptight when I first started going out dressed. I feared the time when some guy would hit on me. What would I do? I mean I'm in a gay bar, this is their territory, I don't want to offend them but I'm not into guys.

What happened over time was I evolved. I came to undertand things better. I became sort of a hybrid. I became like women are, less inhibited about hugging and kissing the same sex. It doesn't mean anything except friendship, just like it does with women.

I made some good friends and the gay community found a friend in a straight crossdresser. One guy hated men who dressed. Today he is a good friend. When I see him he comes up to me and makes sure he lets me know I'm loved. I have many friends in the gay community like that. They all know I'm totally straight and many have admitted they never thought they would have felt so close to a straight guy, let alone a crossdresser. But it happened. We all learned a lot. We learned acceptance.

Morals can become like shackles. While it's important to be decent toward others, we can't let morals prevent us from opening ourselves to others. Those kind of morals can be stifling.

[Jesse69]

Julie - but when you go to gay bars and have gay friends - don't most people who know or talk about you call you gay ?

I'm already being called gay for being a crossdressor ! And I consider myself mostly straight.

[Julie]

Julie - but when you go to gay bars and have gay friends - don't most people who know or talk about you call you gay ?

I'm already being called gay for being a crossdressor ! And I consider myself mostly straight.

Sure, I'm always mistaken for being gay just because I'm dressed in a gay bar. So what? All I have to do is tell them I'm straight and case closed.

Last night this 22 year old guy was talking to me. He started the conversation saying he liked to dress. Okay, cool, we have something in common. There was a lot of people there I knew and I always take the time to say hello. Well, this 22 year old keeps coming around. I begin to wonder. When the place closes he comes up to me and asks for my phone number. I looked him in the eye and said, "No" he looked disappointed. Then I said, "I'm into girls." He then gave me a knowing look and nodded. That was that.

The coolest compliment I've ever gotten from a gay guy was from a guy I know pretty well. He's in a committed relationship with a guy who I befriended earlier. One evening, before his BF arrived, we were talking. I was being a nut and had him laughing when he said, "You are the coolest straight crossdresser I've ever known." Okay, I don't know how many straight crossdressers he knows - never mind, I won't go there.....:p

When I'm out dressed I'm comfortable and I just be myself. Labels mean nothing. What someone thinks of you is unimportant as long as you're a decent and kind person. That's what I try to be.

[HaleyPink2000]

You need to join a group like TriEss in your area. I drive 2 hours one way each month just to hangout for a few hours with other CD's...

It is refreshing and makes me happy. I find that I am so sad when I don't make the meetings and it lasts till the next month. Yes, having others around you for support counts big time. Sis, I really think you need to join a TriEss group some place.

Haley:)

[erica12b]

there is a group in denver but that 4 to 4 1/2 hr and 2 mane passes away

[TGMarla]

Erica, I went through a divorce because my first wife cheated on me with one fo my closest friends. I was so hurt and angry, I carried a ton of resentment towards women inside me for an entire year. I dealt with it, wrote a few good songs, and came full circle. I found a better peace within myself, and began to date again. But it took time. And looking back, I'm glad it did. I became a better person for it.

I have men making advances on me through a profile I have up on the web. I turn them all down, because like Julie, I'm just not into guys.
Were I a post-op TS, I would probably be more curious, but as a man who has no intention of transitioning, I'm just not looking for guys, and I'm not curious about sex with them. If I want sex with a guy, I'm always available to myself. :D But no matter how many messages I get from guys who tell me how "pretty" they think I am, I'm just not interested. But that's just me. If you want to date some guys, that's your business. But don't do it just because you're getting a lot of solicitations. They don't mean anything. Your anger towards women is likely there because you just went through a divorce. It will pass. The fact that you know few women right now is because you've not been out on the market because you were married. Give it time. Don't look too hard. Let things carry on at their own pace. In my limited experience, the women I have found in my life came along when I was trying to find them the least. The harder I tried, the more frustrating it became. When I wasn't trying, blammo! There they were. So stop brow beating yourself, settle down, let all this emotion you have pent up inside of you to boil down a bit, and you'll find yourself getting back into life again. Don't force the issue.

[DonnaT]

Erica, if you convince yourself to give it a try, make sure the guy knows it is not for sex, but companionship. But being mad about not having GGs in your life is not a good reason to force yourself into an uncomfortable relationship.

As indicated in Julie's post, hang out with other CDs and with gay men in a safe atmosphere, get to know them, and let nature tale its course. If you find your self attracted to someone, then you'll know it's right for you. If not, you can still hang out as friends.

Trying to force a relationship, whether with a girl or a guy, usually doesn't result in anything but disappointment.

[Deborah_UK]

I know it's immoral to be a crossdressor and that's as far as I go.

I'm sorry to just highlight this bit but it struck me hard.

Its far too much of a sweeping statement that could not go without comment.

How do you know its immoral to crossdress? Who has imposed that morality upon you?

It may be (and is) viewed as such, but that's not a fact to know, its merely an opinon on morality.

My opinion is that the vast majority on this forum are not immoral they are fulfilling a totally unexplainable phenomenon. We all wonder why people crossdress and there are plenty of theories but there is still not one definitive answer, and there is unlikely to be.

Crossdressing is not a question of morality, going out picking up guys, having sex and not telling them you're TV/CD could be considered immoral, but not the act of crossdressing itself.

[Andrea's Lynne]

Well said Deborah!

You beat me to it.

[susiej]

Erica,

My advice is this: don't set out to find something you know in your heart you probably don't want.

Instead, invest the time in finding somebody you do want. If GG's are your preference, go where they are, and be yourself. Join some affinity group that will bring you together (gourmet, singing groups, theater club, whatever). Troll for them on-line. You're probably already doing all that, but keep at it. I associate with a lot of GG's in my work, and it's amazing how many of them are grumping about how lousy their social lives are!

Hugs,
Susie

[HaleyPink2000]

I lived there at one time when I was young. Loved the ski lodges and the people.


TriEss Meetings:
One thing I have to do is stay over night if I get tired. So I nap before I leave home. That way mostly I can drive back home that night.

Is it worth it? Yes!

Take your dress with you and your other things. Dress at the meeting, many do. Then undress and drive to a motel, again many do.

You will find there are probably people in your own area that go to these meetings. Really!

I live near a town of 250 people right now. In central Illinois. I met a person over our TriEss forum that is from there I did not know. Cool huh? I thought Chicago or St. Louis would be the closest. I was wrong. Took me a few months of searching. But this group I belong to meets 2 hours away from me one month. The next month they meet 20 min away from me in Springfield, IL.

Ok, you drive that one time, and then tell me you didn't have fun!
You'll have a blast. Really!

Haley:)

[Julie]

I'm sorry to just highlight this bit but it struck me hard.

Its far too much of a sweeping statement that could not go without comment.

How do you know its immoral to crossdress? Who has imposed that morality upon you?

It may be (and is) viewed as such, but that's not a fact to know, its merely an opinon on morality.

My opinion is that the vast majority on this forum are not immoral they are fulfilling a totally unexplainable phenomenon. We all wonder why people crossdress and there are plenty of theories but there is still not one definitive answer, and there is unlikely to be.

Crossdressing is not a question of morality, going out picking up guys, having sex and not telling them you're TV/CD could be considered immoral, but not the act of crossdressing itself.

Deborah, like you, that statement really bothered me. I've been contemplating responding to it but knew if I did I might get too emotional. What it shows though is one of the many misinformed views society has about us. It probably stems more from religion but none the less it's wrong. I crossdress frequently (although I don't consider it CROSSdressing, it's just me being me) and go out and socialize all the time and I can say with complete confidence I am doing nothing immoral. Different? Yes. But immoral? No way!

It just shows us once again we've got a long way to go before the world truly understands us.

[HaleyPink2000]

Julie Dear!

I so agree with most of your postings. Wow, How can I add to that!

Only that on my account I read my Bible the same way others do. I go to Church the same on Sunday. Do I feel I have committed a mortal Sin. NO!
I feel many people want others to believe their way, and that is not always going to happen. Not even my preacher and I do believe the same things. I believe as I feel is correct. As I feel my God would want me to.

Nothing will change me from my faith. But Hun, it's my faith. Others have to find their own way in life. Just as you, and I have done. They will find their own faith and hope. That is what Red White and Blue is to me. I fought in a war in Nam so people could be free. For what ever reason I came back a better person than the Boy of 17 that went there.

Your such a Dear person. I read every posting of yours, with all my heart I have to say your pretty cool.

Moral, thats a big word. I think if you asked 50 people you'd get 49 different answers.

Haley:)

[Lauren_T]

I know it's immoral to be a crossdressor and that's as far as I go. I would never do a man while dressed up in drag - I think that's really bad. Of course if I were a real woman then I would be really horny with men. But as a guy - when I look at other men - I say to myself - "I can never do that." I just don't like men and only like women. But I do have fantasies of being a real woman doing a man - no harm in that.As Deborah noted, saying you "know" such-and-such implies that it's a fact - but that isn't remotely anything resembling a fact. You could legitimately say 'I feel it's immoral,' or 'my belief is that it's immoral,' but if it ain't a fact - which it surely ain't - you can't "know" it.

At the core, CDing is about nothing more than bits of cloth and paint being used by a group that doesn't traditionally use them. How can a piece of cloth or a bit of color have anything to do with morals?

Next you say "I think that's really bad." You put "I think," making it clearly an expression of opinion, but still, those words condemn a significant number of us. Instead, how about "I think that's really bad for me"? Or do you really believe that CDs who have sex with males are 'really bad'?

Personally, I find males to be sexually repulsive - but unless I'm willing to let others pass judgement on my sexual tastes, then I have no business casting the proverbial 'first stone.'

It's always disheartening to hear the unfair, irrational judgements of oppressors repeated by victims of their oppression. :(

[Lauren_T]

Julie - but when you go to gay bars and have gay friends - don't most people who know or talk about you call you gay ?

I'm already being called gay for being a crossdressor ! And I consider myself mostly straight.So? I myself have often been called an idiot (among other things... :eek: :p). Still doesn't make it true, so I treat it as just so much dimwitted hot air - and continue to filter the mouth-breathing clowns who spew such crap out of my life.

So just ignore it...:)

[Jesse69]

As Deborah noted, saying you "know" such-and-such implies that it's a fact - but that isn't remotely anything resembling a fact. You could legitimately say 'I feel it's immoral,' or 'my belief is that it's immoral,' but if it ain't a fact - which it surely ain't - you can't "know" it.

At the core, CDing is about nothing more than bits of cloth and paint being used by a group that doesn't traditionally use them. How can a piece of cloth or a bit of color have anything to do with morals?

Next you say "I think that's really bad." You put "I think," making it clearly an expression of opinion, but still, those words condemn a significant number of us. Instead, how about "I think that's really bad for me"? Or do you really believe that CDs who have sex with males are 'really bad'?

Personally, I find males to be sexually repulsive - but unless I'm willing to let others pass judgement on my sexual tastes, then I have no business casting the proverbial 'first stone.'

It's always disheartening to hear the unfair, irrational judgements of oppressors repeated by victims of their oppression. :(

Yes, I do believe that CDs who have sex with men are being really bad. And when we're young the first morals they teach us is that girls wear skirts and that boys wear pants ... etc.

I wasn't condemning others, I was stating my opinion - and that's what the thread starter asked. I hope you don't hate me for my beliefs.

It's hard to ignore nasty comments like gay or whatever insults etc when it prevents you from having a good social life with straight people or the "A" crowd.

I think the majority of people who don't crossdress will think that crossdressing is immoral.

I think crossdressing is a moral failing that doesn't hurt anyone except the crossdressor. I think we all suffer from the consequences of our crossdressing - divorces, lost friends, a nasty reputation, insults, job problems, etc.

[TGMarla]

I think crossdressing is a moral failing that doesn't hurt anyone except the crossdressor. I think we all suffer from the consequences of our crossdressing - divorces, lost friends, a nasty reputation, insults, job problems, etc.

I'm sorry to have to make the comparison, but you just keep digging yourself in deeper here, and to try and fix the problem, you go out and buy a new shovel. I don't think you're going to find a whole lot of people here who feel that they have a "moral failing" due to the fact that they crossdress. You, on the other hand, suffer deeply because of all the spew that has been brainwashed into your head since childhood. You're telling me that if my wife wears a pretty dress somewhere, she looks nice, and we can all smile at her. But if I do the same thing, I have a "moral failing". I don't think so. In fact, I am one of the most moral people I know, believing deeply in the Golden Rule. I go out of my way to do right by my fellow human beings, often at the expense of my own best interests. I give to those less fortunate than I, and I share what I have with others. But because I like to wear clothing that someone else has designated is "immoral" for me to wear, I am guilty of a "moral failing"? Where do you come off here? Perhaps you just don't know how to deal with this whole thing. Perhaps you are bearing a huge guilt trip over something you feel you have little control over. Perhaps you are suffering from self-loathing because you have a compulsion to do something that flies in the face of some BS religious crap you were fed when you were young. I don't know, but I for one am not in the habit of passing judgement on the others here in this forum. I notice that no one here has passed any kind of judgement on you.

[erica12b]

when I started this string I should not have used the word moral it was the wrong choice , when I started the string different thinking I should not have used the word different ,these words have brought about a hole range of feelings and thoughts, moral is a word that on the surface sounds great in a sentence but is misplaced, moral is a social word used to describe a idealistic society. its not a real world word that deals with the here and now, the word different, I find some feeling attacked and hurt bye, they feel it is a judgmental word and it is degrading to them , for the use of these too words imp sorry, but im not sorry for asking the questions

P.s. just for the record I do believe that in one or two religions that a impure thought is deemed (wrong) and you get in trouble for them . tow me this is a oxymoron for if you don’t think about it first how do you make the right choice?