Really a joke?

[Stephanie Kay]

Have you heard this one?

"What's the difference between and crossdresser and a transexual?"

"About two years!"


Do any of you think this is true? Are any of you afraid of this? What do you think?

[Julie]

Stephanie, you may be on to something! I read recently an article where the author made an excellent case about this feeling in us just keeps growing. She said we start young being satisfied with an article or two of clothing. Over the years we need more. Then more. Soon, we want to dress fully. Then we want to dress and look like a woman. Then we want to go out dressed. Then we want to spend more time dressed. Then we want to share this with family, then friends. Next thing you know we want to dress how we want when we want.

Yeah, it just keeps growing!

Okay, very few of us really want to live life as a woman. I think that's something you feel at a very early age and the desire to crossdress will never turn into the desire to be a woman if it already isn't there. But for those of us who are inclined to that, I'd say two years is a pretty good estimate - if you FedEx it!

[Clarissa3d]

I would have to agree, I started at the age of 5 years and at the age of 41 It has steadily grown as Julie describes. I have to say it is really interesting, the urge and how it is very similar for others.

hummmm. My ex just says it's in my head... I think it is in more than just my head.:rolleyes: My head to my heels:p

Clarissa

[jo_ann]

I don't think I could ever be fully a woman (or at least it would be extremely difficult). Just the fact that I have size 15 mens feet and am forced to wear uncomfortable 5" heels says enough.. No woman wears heels all the time, they like to wear something more comfortable at times too.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

The joke is an unfortunate one. It's undoubtedly true for some, but not true for most.

There's actually no statistics on the number of CDs who end up realizing they're TS and transition -- although "My Husband Betty" author Helen Boyd, believes she may have located one. But using Lynn Convay's most "aggressive" estimation of the prevalence of TSism, my best guess at a high-end estimate is about 10%. Part of the problem is there aren't really any good numbers on the prevalence of CDism, so it's hard to figure out a ratio. (About 3-5% of men are regular CDs is a commonly used figure, but I've never seen it sourced. There is one Swedish study that found similar figures, but it included anyone who ever crossdresses for any reason.)

Unfortunately, there are some TSs who don't really understand CDs any better than the general population -- and since they went through a phase where they considered themselves "just a CD," they seem to assume every CD is a closeted TS as well. Some have a genuine, albeit misguided, desire to see others break out of their denial -- which might be appropriate if that other person actually is a TS, but can be counterproductive (not to mention a pain in the butt) if they're not. Others I think want to see everyone as TS as a way of easing their own subconscious fears about the path they've taken.

I definitely don't mean to slag on TSs, who will need to slay more dragons than I'll ever face. But a TS friend of mine observed there are some TSs who are so determine to transition that they head down that path before they've straightened out other issues in their life, so they remain unbalanced regardless of what sex or gender they are.

[Stephanie Kay]

Darla, a brilliant analysis. Thank you for your input, dear.

[mand]

Hello Stephanie :)
Well love I can only tell you what I know for fact ;)

I have in the past met girls at TG meeting thingys. Well a few of them when they first came to the meetings were of the attitude "ok I dress like a woman but I'm still a guy" and they would talk like a guy.
Now most would stop going to the meets after a while but some carried on going. Anyway after a while, maybe a couple of years you would not believe that they were the same person. Some where having electrolosis, some were seeing gender therapists, some were wanting to go on hormones and others were on hormones. A few were telling how desperate for GRS they were.

Now is the joke true ?.....................I don't know, who know's, might be might not:confused:

Then again it might be true for some and not true for other's ;)


love mand xxx:)

[Shannon]

Funny -- I took the joke with a slightly different twist -- I thought the two years referred to the time it takes for the complete sexual reassignment process -- the surgery, hormones, etc.

I do agree with the many comments that CrossDressing is a process that seems to build upon itself -- more clothes, more often, more elaborate, in more situations. (That also happens to be the process for most any addiction).

Personally, while I very much enjoy the experiences of femininity my CrossDressing brings, I don't have a strong desire to be a transexual -- for several reasons: I don't feel that I'm a woman trapped in a man's body; I think I'm high on the androgyny scale; I'm a bit doubtful that I would feel as much enjoyment in being a woman if I actually was a woman.

[Sharon]

I think that there's a truth in the joke, but with a huge caveat.

A transexual is a transexual, and a crossdresser is a crossdresser, and they are two completely different things. But, many transexuals, at least in the beginning stages of their development or self-awareness, either fail to realize, or refuse to admit to themselves, how deeply their feelings lie. They may consider themselves crossdressers for years, which itself is a heavy burden to bear, and it is only through the process of self-acceptance and awareness that they, hopefully, eventually accept the fact that they are what they are.

Crossdressers sometimes so emmerse themselves in the lifestyle that may eventually undergo feminization, and occasionally complete gender reassignment, but they are not transexuals by how I understand the word. This isn't to say that they are not happy and at peace with the choices they have made, but their brain is still not that of a true transexual.

So -- many, if not most, transexuals begin as crossdressers, whether it is for two years, twenty years, or for a lifetime. They will still be transexuals in their heart and mind no matter what they decide to do or not do. But the great majority of crossdressers are perfectly happy to continue life living in both worlds.

[mand]

.

So -- many, if not most, transexuals begin as crossdressers, whether it is for two years, twenty years, or for a lifetime. They will still be transexuals in their heart and mind no matter what they decide to do or not do. But the great majority of crossdressers are perfectly happy to continue life living in both worlds.


Hello Sharon :) I agree with all you're post love but I just picked out the above as it says it all......................there are no time limmits on feelings ;)


Also I often wonder if exsposure to the TG community, meeting and chating with other girls has an effect.
Someone who has been a closet CD for say 10, 20, 30 years starts going to meetings and chating with others on the net, might quickly desire such things as going out public, seeking referals, wanting hormones, and or FFS and GRS.

Could the exsposure be kinda like giving a "kick start" to dormant/hidden or deined feelings :confused:


love mand xxx:)

[HaleyPink2000]

A Love Story!



I will seek and find you . . .

I shall take you to bed and have my way with you .

I will make you ache, shake & sweat until you moan & groan.

I will make you beg for mercy, beg for me to stop.

I will exhaust you to the point that you will be relieved when I'm
finished
with you.

And, when I am finished, you will be weak for days.

All my love,
The Flu

[HaleyPink2000]

Ok, my take on it.

I have met people from all sides of this I believe. Also more to come in my life.
Never would I say that any of this leads to TS. The people that want to TS already know. They just have not admitted it yet. To themselves or others. Yes, you know who you are. Don't hide your faces! :) It's not a sin to me you wanting to TS. So what! I don't care what you do. Neither do many others.

As per counting people and trends. Lets let the college kids do that. LOLOL

I don't have time. Sorry :)

Hun, thanks for a nice posting. Really, very interesting.
Haley:)

[_Janelle_]

Also I often wonder if exsposure to the TG community, meeting and chating with other girls has an effect.
Someone who has been a closet CD for say 10, 20, 30 years starts going to meetings and chating with others on the net, might quickly desire such things as going out public, seeking referals, wanting hormones, and or FFS and GRS.

Could the exsposure be kinda like giving a "kick start" to dormant/hidden or deined feelings :confused:


love mand xxx:)

I agree that there is something to this. When exposed to others who are further along on the crossdressing scale, it seems to validate or accelerate the desires to continue to develop one's own crossdressing. If fact, I can feel this happening to myself, and its a little disconcerting to say the least. I don't and never have thought of myself as a woman trapped in a man's body. But since finding this site, I have started shopping at the Goodwill store, and am finding myself wanting to eventually do a complete en femme from head to toe - right now I've reached my waist! Just picked up a cute denim minskirt yesterday, and probably would have never done that if I hadn't come across this site - it has in someways allowed me to explore this further than I would have if left to my own devices.

Unfortunately I have to say I am not sure if this is a good thing or not - I am certainly enjoying it, but need to make sure it doesn't become an all consuming obsession and start to interfere with the great relationship I have with my wife and kids as well as my work end of things.

I'll quit rambling for now, but FYI, I have posted a few pics of my new skirt on the pics section!

Janelle

[DonnaT]

There is very little truth to the joke, actually. It has taken many of us more than 2 years just to get the nerve to buy the clothes.

The bad thing is when SOs read such a joke and think it's true.

Note I said very little truth. A person in another forum took a lot less time to realize, or think (she may be OCD) she's TS and has set a 16 month date to GRS.

Look around the Forum. Many of us ID as CDs and have for many many years, and more than a few of us have no desire to transition.

[susiej]

I've been living that two year period between CD and TS for more than three decades :) !

When my estrogen level (or whatever does this to me) is up, as it is now BTW, I wannabe, wannabe, wannabe a woman. Practical life considerations totally prohibit me from considering transitioning, but OMG, how I want it. Then, the magic goes away and I'm quite happy with things as they are. This has gone on for a very long time, so -- in spite of periodic fluctuations, I'm stable somewhere between CD and TS.

Hugs,
Susie

[Toyah]

Have you heard this one?

"What's the difference between and crossdresser and a transexual?"

"About two years!"


Do any of you think this is true? Are any of you afraid of this? What do you think?


Its not a problem for me I really treat it as a hobby and not a lifestyle. I really dont think I would even want to be full time too much maintenance for me, coz I am basically bone idle. My other problem would be the attention of guys, oh no thank you very much would be too much thats why I stay at home.

[Dixie Darling]

I have to agree with DonnaT here - as well as a couple of the other respondees. A TS is well aware that they are a TS very early in life. The danger in the reference to there being a two year difference between a CD and a TS is that it scares the hell out of some of the SO's who might hear/read it and take it way too seriously.

As a lifelong CD, I can tell you that I have never had any aspirations of becoming a woman and never will. I enjoy slipping into and out of femininity, but have no desire to remain that way permanantly.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[mand]

I have to agree with DonnaT here - as well as a couple of the other respondees. A TS is well aware that they are a TS very early in life. The danger in the reference to there being a two year difference between a CD and a TS is that it scares the hell out of some of the SO's who might hear/read it and take it way too seriously.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd


Hello Dixie :) That is so right. I can only speak for myself but from the earliest memories I knew my physical gender was wrong. I didn't want it to be, I fought the feelings, I denied the feelings, I hid from them in so many ways by developing a facarde of what I believed to be how a man should be.
I mean this type of thing only happened to other people............not me :rolleyes:

As for the two year thing, I wouldn't take any time limit seriously ;)
However I have seen for myself people change drasticlly once exposed to the TG community..........................personally I think they were just doing what I used to do...................living in denial. Once they found others of a similar nature they accepted who they really were.


love mand xxx:)

[mand]

I agree that there is something to this. When exposed to others who are further along on the crossdressing scale, it seems to validate or accelerate the desires to continue to develop one's own crossdressing. If fact, I can feel this happening to myself, and its a little disconcerting to say the least. I don't and never have thought of myself as a woman trapped in a man's body. But since finding this site, I have started shopping at the Goodwill store, and am finding myself wanting to eventually do a complete en femme from head to toe - right now I've reached my waist! Just picked up a cute denim minskirt yesterday, and probably would have never done that if I hadn't come across this site - it has in someways allowed me to explore this further than I would have if left to my own devices.

Unfortunately I have to say I am not sure if this is a good thing or not - I am certainly enjoying it, but need to make sure it doesn't become an all consuming obsession and start to interfere with the great relationship I have with my wife and kids as well as my work end of things.

I'll quit rambling for now, but FYI, I have posted a few pics of my new skirt on the pics section!

Janelle


Hello Janelle :) I didn't mean to get you worrying about it love ..........honest ;)

Janelle I have seen people change so much but to be honest the feelings must have been in there to begin with, so don't worry :)
As for wanting to dress head to toe, that's great.
Just enjoy CDing for whatever it means to you.

love mand xxx:)

[HaleyPink2000]

My only TS thoughts might have been to get my breast done with inplants. I really had that idea for a while. Then I thought, Why? For others or for myself. I'd say for myself I'd like breast inplants also lap band surgery.
I'm a little over weight and would love to shed the pounds.

But will I, No! My life is for my Wife and I together. Untill She's gone I will not do surgery. She means to much to me. Also She'd not like that I did any of that.


Haley:)

[Stephanie Kay]

I'm a bit doubtful that I would feel as much enjoyment in being a woman if I actually was a woman.

Interesting statement, Shannon. I think I feel the same way!

I attended a S.P.I.C.E. (Tri-Ess group for SO's) convention one year and the men sat in a circle and were asked what they liked about being men (CD's are not allowed to crossdress at the S.P.I.C.E. convention). The most honest one said he liked being a man because he could crossdress as a woman! I kinda liked that!:)

[HaleyPink2000]

Ok, I'm sitting in a circle and some one out there asks me what I like about being a Man. Hmmm?

1. Sex
2. I can dress en femme if I want to, yes!
3. Hmm, How people treat my paycheck, it's bigger.
4. Getting tougher. Ahh, Guys night out en femme.
5. Well, ahhh, How people treat what I say.
6. Not having a period. Why didn't I say that one sooner.
7. Gawd, this could go on and on. Ok, thinking here, ahhh having my wife around.

Ok that's enough. Hope 7 counts. Thats my lucky number anyway.

Haley:)

[JMO2]

I know from my own experience that if I had learned then what I know now, who knows what extent I would be at now.
From the start it seemed like I was the only one that did anything like that (crossdressing) and the rest of the world concidered it strange.
My dads reaction was (to one of his friends) "Lets take him out behind the barn and beat some sence into him)
My mothers reaction "I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!"
My ex-wifes reaction. "He's gay...."
My reaction I want to know who I am and nobody has the ansawer!!!
Years of research and a lot of soul searching later....I am who I am and you will have to accept that......
I have lots of only-if's but, it was all part of growing up and understanding that I can truely accept that, my life had to be the way it was, for me to be at the point in life that I now am......Live life be happy and don't analize it to death....that will come soon enough.......

[Stephanie]

I didn't hear this "joke" until I read "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd but I personally don't believe that it is true and, frankly, I think that saying something like that really only ends up making wifes/SOs of CDs even more anxious about our cd-ing and makes it that much harder for them to feel totally comfortable about it. That our cd-ing will lead to SRS at some point down the road seems to be one of the top fears that women/SOs seem to have about our cd-ing and having somebody come out and actually suggest that cd-ing might somehow inevitably lead to wanting to transition after a period of time just makes it that much harder to try and assuage those fears that our partners/SOs have about it. My personal opinion is that you either are or you aren't a genuine transsexual and that the frequency or duration of your crossdressing is not inevitably going to lead you in one direction or another. I love my cd-ing and there are times that I wish I could do it more but I could NEVER see myself wanting or feeling the need to undergo SRS simply because I know that is not what I am and not what I want. I think that part of the reason that people might get confused about this is that some people do not disclose their transsexual feelings and initially lead their spouses to believe that they are only interested in cd-ing but do later disclose that they are transsexual and desire SRS.

[TGMarla]

Okay, I read all the responses. Everyone has a good point on this. Each of us can only state opinions based on our own experiences with self and at large. I value the opinions of those who have been out and about in the TG community, too. I say this not because any of our closeted and personal opinions don't matter; on the contrary. They matter a great deal. But as one who has never managed to go out anywhere (yet), it is good to get perspective from those who have. And Mand, you seem to have a very sensible bead on this, love. You are further along the sliding scale than many of us. I hope that your journey is a good one for you no matter where it ends. I find that for me, it is much like what SusieJ said. There are times in my life when all I can do is wring my hands in frustration that I am not female. Other times I am glad that I am male. And the pendulum continues to swing, never really committing itself to one side or the other. So I try to strike a balance between the two sides, and enjoy them both. I have no idea what the consequences would (will) be once I get out and around others like myself in the real world rather than in the virtual one. But even being here and active in this forum has made the femme part of me more active. But at this juncture, I have too much doubt about transexuality and how it pertains to me and my situation to really take the option seriously. I thank all of you for your wonderful input here.

[Stephanie]

Another thing that I thought of while I was reading earlier posts and thinking about my own earlier post is that how we perceive our cd-ing or what cd-ing does for us mentally, emotionally, psychologically, and physically is a good way of determining where we are on the "TG scale." I know that a part of what makes cd-ing exciting, at least for me, is the thrill of being able to create the illusion of and possibly pass myself off as something that I'm not and KNOW that I am not, as well as being able to enjoy wearing womens clothing and doing other "feminine" things that I KNOW that I'm not "supposed" to enjoy as a guy. For me, transitioning and becoming a woman, albeit not a fully "genetic" woman, would remove that "thrill" and fun that retaining my current physical sex currently offers me because there would no longer be that "disconnect" between my appearance in terms of clothing, hair, etc. and my physical sex. and I'm not simply not sure that, at least for me, continued or even increased cd-ing would ever change that.

[Helana]

This debate all comes down to whether you believe CD/TGs and TS are two separate, mutually exclusive groups or if you believe we are all part of one continuous spectrum. I believe the latter and so would suggest that some CD/TGs do progress into TS. There are many more secondary TS (those who transition later in life) than primary TS (those who always knew they were TS and transition early). Having read many accounts of CDs who became TS I did not obseve any difference in their life stories from any other CD/TG so I see no evidence that these people were always TS and were in denial by thinking they were only CD. I believe secondary TS are every bit a true TS as primary ones. However I also would agree that a few CDs who get GRS are indulging their fantasy and subsequently live to regret it.

I think it is clear that most of us do progress along the TG spectrum to some degree as we age, just as we do in other areas of interest and thought. Overwhelmingly most CD will not become TS but it can and does happen, particularly if the person has the time, money and opportunity to fully delve into their TG nature. That some CDs do progress into the realm of TS is unquestionable. And remember you do not need to get GRS to be TS, simply a wish to go full time is already a strong indicator of TS and some are satisfied with that.

So yes there is some truth to the joke and we should not be afraid to say so. Neither should we be afraid to discuss this because it could frighten our SOs as they have every right to be informed as we all are. The value of this forum is in its open and frank discussions.

[Kim E]

Hello Dixie :) That is so right. I can only speak for myself but from the earliest memories I knew my physical gender was wrong. I didn't want it to be, I fought the feelings, I denied the feelings, I hid from them in so many ways by developing a facarde of what I believed to be how a man should be.

In my opinion, I believe that TS , in various degrees according to each individual, is a lifestyle. TS is a lifelong, usually from a very early age, awareness of being born wrong gender. Time is just one aspect that also varies from one to another and I don't feel is very relevant.

Mand ~ You know what I'm thinking. See you soon. :)

Sharon ~ I agree completely with your post. Very well said. :)

Kim

[mand]

.

Mand ~ You know what I'm thinking. See you soon. :)


Kim


Hello Kim :) when I written the quote you refered too, I also had in mind of an earlier post of your's (sorry can't remember the thread :o ) in which you refered too when you were in the police and basiclly being as "macho/manly" as possible really.
I was also thinking of the extents I went too, to deny my feelings and also to be what family, friends and society expected me to be. Such jobs as the army, coal miner, builder ................all very male orintated jobs.

I did I suppose actually over compensate as a guy to hide/deny the feelings inside.

Bye for now, love mand xxx:)