Thoughts on Passing

[Rikidee]

There are many threads on the forum about passing and I have experimented with almost every different method you can imagine but I have found there is more than one way to pass, there are degrees of passing if you will. We typically automatically think of passing as being an all out girl in heels, a fancy dress and to die for makeup and hair. But there are other degrees. For instance we can go out androgenous which just makes folks wonder if we are male or female which can be confusing because if they do not give you a hint you don't know which they think you are. Then you can make an effort to be an especially efeminate male which believe it or not lets most females feel more at ease around you and accept you more into their circle and this can include wearing all manners of femme clothing but probably not an evening dress and heels. Then there is the girl that is dressed a little boyish. I have been experimenting with this one and found it to be fun. I can wear a hat, put on some make up, my small breast forms, a pair of shorts or a skirt, or even boy style shorts that are a little longer. You will be surprised at the reactions and acceptance and I find that I can feel more relaxed because I am wearing clothes that I am more familiar with. The little bumps under your blouse really give you some girly points if you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I like to be an all out girl sometimes but that is not always possible so I use some of these other methods sometimes. This works really well for me as i do a lot of outdoor activities and I can pass to some degree without a lot of makeup to sweat off. Anyway just wanted to let some of our closeted members know that you do not have to be a beautiful woman every time you go outside and you can start slowly and build yourself up as your skills and confidence improve. You will be surprised how few people give a rip if you wear some femme clothes but are not a gorgeous woman. Luv ya and get out there. Hugs Riki

[Amanda22]

Hi Rikidee! I really like this post. As you may imagine, I employ this approach, too. Some days, I'm a girlish boy, and other days, I'm a boyish girl. I'm more at ease if I'm not pushing the boundaries, and I think it helps me "pass." This is a really good thread..thanks...

[Tracii G]

Great thread and I have been doing that same thing for some time and it does work well for me.
You don't have to be all femme all the time just give the hints and people will get the hints and think well it must be a girl.Not overly pretty but still a girl.

[JaytoJillian]

I for one, love to rock the tomboy look during football season with my Eagles Starter fleece, skinny jeans and boots
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5060/5508514873_9765e030ca_n.jpg

[Karen_Ski]

Great post Rikidee! :hugs: I found that after I started HRT and went au natural, 36A, and quit worrying what people thought and started enjoying life I fit in better. Not sure if it is passing but I ha discovered that since I took the "it is my life and I will live it as I damned well please" I have never had an issue. Even my converstion with the CHP last month, some tiny detail about how the speed limit on the 405 is not 100 MPH after midnight, no problems en femme even with my male drivers license.

PS He wrote me for 10 over but I think he liked my legs as my skrt had ridden up to mid thigh.

Bad girl Karen! :devil:

[docrobbysherry]

I believe the definition of "passing" is: To pass as a female.

I can dress like a pro linebacker, a tomgirl, or a fashion model and NO ONE will ever think I mite be a female!

U can talk about "confidence" and "attitude" all u like, Riki. Both very useful if u go out dressed. No matter how u dress. But, they're NOT the same as passing!

[Barbara Ella]

Rikidee. You and the others posting here are hitting on the essence of the personal aspect of crossdressing. Different prople will feel female with different degrees of clothing, and it is that aspect that should really guide what one does in public. Not everyone will be comfortable full out femme. Not every GG is full out femme 24/7, so to speak. And i must say that regardless, whenever one chooses to go out, they go out as a beautiful woman, pass or not is not important. It is all in the heart and mind. One should only do what one is comfortable doing, and when you achieve that , you have reached a plateau where you should rest a moment and bask in the sunshine and just feel good. And if you feel good, others will pick up on your feeling, and act accordingly, regardless of what you are wearing.

Barbara

[Rachel Morley]

You don't have to be all femme all the time just give the hints and people will get the hints and think well it must be a girl. Not overly pretty, but still a girl.I totally agree, especially if your mannerisms and deportment are feminine. I think people unconsciously add up all the femme signals and then all the male signals and take their best guess as which one you are. IMHO, even if you have a lot of femme signals going on but still get read as male, they will often still treat you as female (to your face).

[Sara Jessica]

I for one, love to rock the tomboy look during football season with my Eagles Starter fleece, skinny jeans and boots

Just look at her picture, there's not much on this planet that is more passable than this.

(And I hate that word but ya know, sometimes it just works.)

I'm going to crawl under a rock now and mope.

[kellycan27]

I believe the definition of "passing" is: To pass as a female.

I can dress like a pro linebacker, a tomgirl, or a fashion model and NO ONE will ever think I mite be a female!

U can talk about "confidence" and "attitude" all u like, Riki. Both very useful if u go out dressed. No matter how u dress. But, they're NOT the same as passing!

I agree.. if the definition of passing is "being taken as a woman". you're going to need a heck of a lot more than that. To me passing is having the person on the other side of the counter having no doubt that they just encountered a woman. Blending, slipping under the radar, and not giving a s**T what people think is not IMHO passing. As Sherry says.. it might be helpful in getting you out there to do your thing, but it's not going to make you pass scrutiny. Nor is having people trying to decide if you are male or female.

[Beverley Sims]

I may not pass but I do not get many second glances either.
Only if I engage in a long conversation when I can be examined closeup.
Life is good for me 5"8" size 10 shoes slim legs (skinny) 130lbs size 14 dress.
It all helps.

[Katie83]

As is often mentioned on here, passing isn't really that important. It is blending that is important. Being dressed in a manner appropriate to the situation. If shopping en femme then perhaps wearing some skinny jeans, strappy vest top and some low heeled boots with make up and wig etc. It is unlikely you would be noticed. If you do the same thing wearing a ball gown and 5 inch sequined stilettos, you will be noticed, you will be read as as crossdresser quite quickly due to the excessive attention.
Same principal is going shopping in drab, wear boy jeans, boy t shirt, and a pair of trainers, no one will notice you or even give you a second look, but if you were to wear a top hat and tails type suit at the shops you would get noticed a lot more.
Katie

[Claire Cook]

Yes, Riki, great post!


You will be surprised at the reactions and acceptance and I find that I can feel more relaxed because I am wearing clothes that I am more familiar with.

Anyway just wanted to let some of our closeted members know that you do not have to be a beautiful woman every time you go outside and you can start slowly and build yourself up as your skills and confidence improve. You will be surprised how few people give a rip if you wear some femme clothes but are not a gorgeous woman. Luv ya and get out there. Hugs Riki


I totally agree, especially if your mannerisms and deportment are feminine. I think people unconsciously add up all the femme signals and then all the male signals and take their best guess as which one you are. IMHO, even if you have a lot of femme signals going on but still get read as male, they will often still treat you as female (to your face).



If you do the same thing wearing a ball gown and 5 inch sequined stilettos, you will be noticed, you will be read as as crossdresser quite quickly due to the excessive attention.

Same principal is going shopping in drab, wear boy jeans, boy t shirt, and a pair of trainers, no one will notice you or even give you a second look, but if you were to wear a top hat and tails type suit at the shops you would get noticed a lot more.
Katie

For me, all of the above works. Being comfortable in how I present myself just seems to make those I interact with when Out and About more comfortable. Most times I get "ma'am'ed", sometimes I get "sirr'ed", bit I think the bottom line is even if I don't "pass as a gal", I probably "pass" as a guy who is comfortable in the clothes he/she is wearing. (After all, I'm wearing the clothes I really want to wear!) Wearing heels, a splashy dress and makeup to the nines at the mall would make me feel very uncomfortable. If I have any advice for anyone just starting out, I guess it would be to try to fit in.

[kellycan27]

As is often mentioned on here, passing isn't really that important. It is blending that is important. Being dressed in a manner appropriate to the situation. If shopping en femme then perhaps wearing some skinny jeans, strappy vest top and some low heeled boots with make up and wig etc. It is unlikely you would be noticed. If you do the same thing wearing a ball gown and 5 inch sequined stilettos, you will be noticed, you will be read as as crossdresser quite quickly due to the excessive attention.
Same principal is going shopping in drab, wear boy jeans, boy t shirt, and a pair of trainers, no one will notice you or even give you a second look, but if you were to wear a top hat and tails type suit at the shops you would get noticed a lot more.
Katie

I don't think that I have ever seen anyone who could pass.... say it's not important

[Katie83]

I don't think that I have ever seen anyone who could pass.... say it's not important

How does anyone know whether they pass or not? I work very hard on all aspects of cding, make up, mannerisms etc are very important to me. I would like to think i could go unnoticed when i'm out.
If someone goes unnoticed does that mean they've passed or blended?
The only way to tell if you have genuinely passed is to ask everyone that they see. Therefore giving themselves away to everyone they ask.
Katie

[Amanda22]

IMO, "passing" matters far more to the "passer" than the "passee." In other words, it has been my experience that no one gives a damn about how close I resemble a GG. They don't! I believe Rikidee defines passing on her terms, and what a wonderful way to live.

[STACY B]

Tell ya what ,,I think if you Pass as a Nice person an act like you Own it ,,, Way more people will give you the respect you want an need . If your lurking around Looking Crazy like your hidding they will treat you that way ,, If you dont try an hide they wont try an find you ,,Remember hide an seek ? No hiders No Seekers ,, So just Roll up where ever you want an dress the part an Ill bet there will be no trouble . If there is maybe you should rethink your outfit ?

[Amanda22]

Tell ya what ,,I think if you Pass as a Nice person an act like you Own it ,,, Way more people will give you the respect you want an need.

There you go. That's the best definition of "passing" I've ever seen or heard.

[bridget thronton]

I doubt I pass, I am content to be myself and wear clothes I enjoy. I must confess am delighted to be addressed as lady by people I interact with (even if they are just being polite).

[Sarah Doepner]

Passing, or being mistaken for a woman by strangers is the holy grail for crossdressers. I believe it has multiple aspects and most likely will be unobtainable. But with that being said, we may as well have that as the goal rather than "Looking like a guy who needs a shave and shouldn't do his own makeup when he wears a dress and workboots" as the target.

Having the highest goal possible as your target makes the journey so much more interesting. Each time we get close and are even temporarily satisfied with what we have accomplished and how we feel, we can set the standard just a little higher. And maybe if you do pass you can find out if it works in different situations and locations and lighting. And you move on to behavior and interaction, not just how you look and move. It goes on, and that may be what draws us along, there is always a bit more to get from this experience.

[STACY B]

Thats right ,,,I dont realy think there is an End ? Cuz if there were it wouldn't be any Fun . You can always get better at every thing . Even GGs evolve over time ,, Into older more mature woman ,,Cant stay a litle girl all ya ;life ,,,LOL,,,,,,,

[docrobbysherry]

How does anyone know whether they pass or not? I work very hard on all aspects of cding, make up, mannerisms etc are very important to me. I would like to think i could go unnoticed when i'm out.
If someone goes unnoticed does that mean they've passed or blended?
The only way to tell if you have genuinely passed is to ask everyone that they see. Therefore giving themselves away to everyone they ask.
Katie
A bit naive, Katie! I can tell u with some certainty, if you're not sure you've passed or not, u PROBABLY HAVE! Because I can't, that question has never entered my mind! The titters, open gaffaws, "OMG"s, "That's a man", pointing fingers, dropped jaws and polite smirks tell me all I need to know about my passing!

[Debra Russell]

I believe the definition of "passing" is: To pass as a female.

I can dress like a pro linebacker, a tomgirl, or a fashion model and NO ONE will ever think I mite be a female!

U can talk about "confidence" and "attitude" all u like, Riki. Both very useful if u go out dressed. No matter how u dress. But, they're NOT the same as passing!

Yes Sherry ! I agree................Debra

[Katie83]

A bit naive, Katie! I can tell u with some certainty, if you're not sure you've passed or not, u PROBABLY HAVE! Because I can't, that question has never entered my mind! The titters, open gaffaws, "OMG"s, "That's a man", pointing fingers, dropped jaws and polite smirks tell me all I need to know about my passing!

I agree with the logic that, if you are not sure whether you passed or not you probably did pass. However, assuming that the majority of people are pleasant and polite and therefore would not shout and point at you. How would you know if they'd read you or not?

[arbon]

I used to feel that because I did not "pass" I could not go out or even consider transition, but found that was not the case, and once I started going out it was not such a big deal like I thought it was.

However - being able to go live my life as a woman without that transgender identity, being able to take it for granted that everyone will see me as a woman and I can live my life as such, is still very important to me, that is my goal. It's just that I am still very far away from that being a reality, even though I am living full time as a woman.


with my current circumstances, physically and because so many people in the community know me, I don't pass.

I have tons of confidence, and people accept me for the most part, accept me as me, someone who is transsexual (or to most of them transgener) where I live.

I am not worried about how people judge me for the most part, I'm not afraid to be myself out there - but what does upset me is the constant daily reminder that most people still see me as male, or as something different. It would be nice if that did not bother me, if I could be happy living in that in between gender space, but it does bother me, and I am not happy living in that space. So in that regard "passing" is something I wish for.

[kellycan27]

How does anyone know whether they pass or not? I work very hard on all aspects of cding, make up, mannerisms etc are very important to me. I would like to think i could go unnoticed when i'm out.
If someone goes unnoticed does that mean they've passed or blended?
The only way to tell if you have genuinely passed is to ask everyone that they see. Therefore giving themselves away to everyone they ask.
Katie

Not many are going to be able to pass 100% of the time, but if one can do it for the most part.. they just know. It's in how people react to them, how they speak to them and how they treat them. I suppose that one could rationalize and say that going unnoticed or blending is passing, but if if no one notices or you just blend in with the crowd.. where is the test in whether you pass or not.

[Katie83]

Not many are going to be able to pass 100% of the time, but if one can do it for the most part.. they just know. It's in how people react to them, how they speak to them and how they treat them. I suppose that one could rationalize and say that going unnoticed or blending is passing, but if if no one notices or you just blend in with the crowd.. where is the test in whether you pass or not.

I think that it depends on what is trying to be achieved by going out dressed. If they are presenting as female on a full time basis then i think passing is important as personal interactions are needed as a part of day to day life, working, shopping repairing the car etc. However, if they are presenting as a female for just the day or the afternoon to go some clothing shops or similar and will go home and revert back to male mode afterwards, i think that blending or going unnoticed is an acceptable and relatively achievable target that will give the desired results for the CDer.
Katie

[Sarah Doepner]

I always say that if I can get around the corner before they turn around to stare or chase me down with their pitchforks and torches, it's all good. Either I passed, caused confusion or looked like I'd kill them if they bothered me. I'm smiling and that's close enough to passing in my corner of the world.

[Eryn]

I'm pretty sure that can pass if I simply walk through a public place. People will glance at me, perhaps make a double take because I'm tall, and then their minds will wander off in another direction.

I probably do less well in face-to-face situations where more than looks count. Voice, conversation style, mannerisms, etc. are things I'm still learning. Despite this I've always been treated well so I'm less concerned about passing perfectly which, ironically, aids me in relaxing and therefore presenting myself more confidently.

Passing is less important to me now than when I first started going out. I'll never know for sure what anyone else is thinking so why spend much time worrying about it?

[docrobbysherry]

I think that it depends on what is trying to be achieved by going out dressed. If they are presenting as female on a full time basis then i think passing is important as personal interactions are needed as a part of day to day life, working, shopping repairing the car etc. However, if they are presenting as a female for just the day or the afternoon to go some clothing shops or similar and will go home and revert back to male mode afterwards, i think that blending or going unnoticed is an acceptable and relatively achievable target that will give the desired results for the CDer.
Katie
Altho, I HATE Dressing to blend, I've ALWAYS tried that when I know I'll be out in vanilla land, Katie! Yet, I've NEVER ONCE thot I passed with anyone, anywhere! Except those looking the other way when we've gone by each other. And with them, they MAY be looking away on purpose!
Whether u like it or not, (I certainly don't), some of us simply CANNOT PASS! Ever! Period!