Women and Children first!

[AmberDay]

Let's have some hypothetical fun! (Warning: Up for almost 24 hours and wired on caffeine!)

I was reading about the sinking of the Titanic and came across a disputed account of a guy dressing like a woman to get on a lifeboat. Some say it happened, others say no, some say he was wearing a woman's coat to stay warm. Anyway, that got me thinking. For those that are FTM or MTF transgender, and you were on a sinking ship, how would you react to the 'Women and Children First!' ? I would also like to hear others' thoughts about this. CD's TV's GG, etc. What about FTM? Would you go down with the ship? What about if you were just a crossdresser dressed as a woman, would you stay behind or try to board the lifeboat? What if you were dressed and they told you to get on? Would you 'be honest' and let natural born females on before you or take advantage of the situation? What if you are a GG and know someone is transsexual and getting on a lifeboat with natural born women?

I am very much pre-op so I would let all the children and females on first. Even if I was dressed I would still not get on a boat until the ladies and children were taken care of. Now if I was post op, I dunno. I would probably hang back and make sure others were taken care of before I got on, but then again, can I live with myself knowing I lived while a man died that could have been in my spot?

Several people may take this next paragraph wrong, so PLEASE take it in the spirt of the question. I am not slamming or degrading anybody who is CD or TG for that matter. We are all on the same boat and firm allies in the cause for equality. I'm not saying that TG is better than being a CD (no doubt, I'll still get flamed by someone even though I wrote this paragraph).

It is a tough one to answer, but is it wrong to criticize a crossdresser if they took advantage of it? I know it sounds harsh, but I would think so. A crossdresser is a individual that wears clothing of the opposite sex, while a transsexual is an individual that is living in the wrong gender. In my mind there is a big difference between the two. So in my own definition, a crossdresser is still a man, and unfortunately have to stay behind (sucks being a man sometimes). As for a transsexual, I guess that it would have to go with how far along they are in the process (but where does one draw the line?). Even though I am a transsexual, I haven't even begun hormones yet. I would be disqualified on my own rules.

What order would you say was appropriate? (Hint: #1 is children first)

[Laura-uk]

I dont give a hoot, I'd be off that damn thing like a flash lol (then again I don't like boats) coward I know :s

[charlene#2]

its easy to say you would or wouldnt do something with out being in the actual situation you are talking about.if that were to happen the feeling of survival could kick in real quick and you would want off that sinking ship real quick.just saying

[suzy1]

I am a complete and unashamed coward.
I would put on my sexiest party dress, flutter my false eyelashes, hand over all my diamonds to the officer loading the life boat, give him a big wet sexy kiss and climb in!

The Lady Suzy.

[5150 Girl]

THEROETICALY.... It should never be an issue again. Thanks to the Titanic disaster, measures have been put in place to ensure everyone will get off a ship!
However, I think if that were the case, I'd try to be in a "transitinal aria",,, some whare near where the women's line ends, and the men's begins.

[noeleena]

Hi,

In answer what i have done not a ship in this case.

A group of us some 35 people & children one was our grandaugter Dejarn some trans & dresser's plus others . many did not know me at the begining they sure did after a short while,

We were puting up tents as it was a camp for a weekend, & we were ready to hoist the main posts for our markey so all was okay now we had a few men & women helping. all was ready to up the tent ,...... yes well the wind hit us with force picked up one woman dumped her 30 feet away the men could not hold any thing so off it went.

after a while they tryed again all set. this time we had it up & was tyeing it down yes the wind came again & it was held only just , so i told Dejarn get with me & we went to get our 4 x 4 with many ropes & gear i carry put the 4 x 4 in a place to hold the tent by ropes so the wind would not shift it.

Well heres this stropy looking woman with ropes a sledge hammer gloves on & a black beane hat heavy army boots & my cold weather N Z R coat,not the female looking woman of 10 min's before. so after that i was in charge of keeping the camp going all tents were checked by me & redone when needed. we had wind rain cold as & frezzing. yet we had a good time.

Iv been in worse conditions & had to just get on & sort it out oh yea there were 4 guys sort of looked a bit lost so i yelled out to them i need you here pronto to work with me sort our issues out with the tents till we had all under control.

Yes i know im a woman who has the knowhow just because i wear the skirts does not mean my training is turned off because im this woman whos ment to just be well you know to soft to work like a guy,

afterwards i was told if i had not taken over & used my gear & the knowhow we would have packed it in . hey im not that kind of person ill do what ever it takes to keep us there. & im glad i did.

The woman who went with the tent the first time i checked she was okay & made sure she was, & i hugged her to make sure.

Now Dejarn would call out when every thing was up & running .....Granddad where are you. as she could not see me some of the time she was just under 5 at that time,=....IM... here. & as some of those there did not know were looking & thinking a grandad where..... so after a while i met every one & they knew i was the woman in black with gloves army boots on & the black bean'e & sledge hammer oh you are a woman then. yea i am,

Okay in answer to your ? im not concerned about my self ill do what ever to help others .....First.... my safety is of no concern .

yes i am a woman just im one stropy Frau when it comes to others as i see it you dont train to sit on your backside & do nothing,

I think iv answered your ? as to the Titanic ill not comment as to much was done wrong & yes for some it was every man for himself.

I will answer one detail its not my clothes that make me who i am i dont hide or need to. ill just do as iv done when needed.

...noeleena...

[Katie83]

I think that the 'women and children first' principal is very outdated due to campains for sexual equality. I am all for sexual equality, i see no reason anyone should be treated differently because of their birth gender or the clothes they are wearing!
I do, however, think that children should be a priority in that situation and they should stay with their parent(s).
It is hard to say what i would do in that situation, without being there, as i would probably panic as i'm a bit of coward. I would be trying to get off the boat asap, i wouldn't be wasting time getting changed before i tried getting off the boat.
Katie

[Annette Todd]

Women and children first stems from the outmoded and archane belief in chivalry and also the continuation of the species. Women bear the children, and children are considered too young to have to die. Times have changed... There is a recent news item about a weding party taking pictures on a dock which collapsed. The groom (a stand-up guy no doubt) left his bride struggling in the water while he made his way to the shore. He may have never heard the word chivalry much less new the intended meaning. I wonder if the subject bride developed a headache during the honeymoon. <:

Cheers

[Beverley Sims]

My wife and I travel a lot in Boeing 747s. My standard quip to the wife there are 400 passengers on this flight so if 1 percent are psychopaths then there are 4 bombs here somewhere.
We ride in the back of the plane usually row 62 in cattle class.
When the plane goes down in the Mid Atlantic or Pacific ocean we will have a long swim for it.
I often think I would give my wife every assistance to survive, a selfish act, as I do want company when I survive.
The other side of the coin, I want to live and die more graciously so self preservation kicks in. More self interest here.
Then again in my past I have helped people out of danger whilst putting myself in jepoardy.
I do not know what I would do.
Dressed as I am today, on the Titanic I might have jumped for it as I do not like cold water.:)

[Claire Cook]

I would put on my sexiest party dress, flutter my false eyelashes, hand over all my diamonds to the officer loading the life boat, give him a big wet sexy kiss and climb in!

The Lady Suzy.

Suzy, I love this one --thanks for starting my day with a smile!:)

[STACY B]

Ive been there an its not so much woman an children as much as its the weekest people need to get off first . Get the helpless ones out of harms way cuz they cant help themselves ,,Even if its weekness or even fear ,,There is nothing wrong with being afraid . But I would put the fearful people in the boat first an keep the rest to help ,It realy doesn't matter the gender if there brave an fearless they can help rescue the rest man woman or child ,, Some people will fool ya in a crisis ? Been in alot of crazy situtions an yull be surprized who steps up to the plate ! ( Be Calm Dont Panic )

[Kate Simmons]

Kind of a "no brainer" for me Hon. Even if I was a woman, I would let others go first, especially if I had lived a fulfilling life. I no doubt would have hidden to let someone go in my place. Besides I was on the Titanic when she went down in a previous life. I was a man and died before she sank.:)

[BRANDYJ]

My being a CD would be the very last thing on my mind. I would react and respond the same dressed either way. I'd do my best to help children and women to get off and at the same time be thinking about saving myself. I just think I'd be pulled to help others first. This question should not be changed based on being transgendered or not. Helping those that need help to escape is a built in act for some of us.

[Cheryl T]

Actually if you read the articles surrounding the Costa Concordia when it ran aground an expert in maritime law was being questioned regarding this and the captain abandoning ship. While there are legal requirements pertaining to the captain's actions he stated that there is no such standard or law as "Women and children first". This is simply a myth that's been propagated over time.

[Barbara_Jean]

There never was a Maritime Law of Women and Children First. On the Titanic, First Officer Murdock was in charge of Lifeboat Launching on the Port Side and Second Officer Lightoller was in charge on the Starboard Side. Officer Lightoller gave the order "Women and Children Only" While Officer Murdock had ordered "Women and Children FIRST". Many Men survived because they went to the Port Side where they were allowed on lifeboats.
The rumor about a man who dressed like a woman to get on a lifeboat has never been proved. It has come from J. Bruce Ismay, the owner of the White Star Line, who was on the ship. He helped people load in the lifeboats and as the last lifeboat was being lowered, he jumped on it. Many people thought this was very cowardly, and began the rumor that he dressed as a woman, which from many first hand accounts was not true. J. Bruce Ismay was always ostracized because he did not go down with the ship, and it was thought that he ordered Captain Smith to proceed at full steam so as to beat their projected arrival time in New York. When the survivors boarded the Carpathia, he went into hiding until they docked in New York.
I cannot say what I would actually do. The human survival instinct is very strong, I would make every effort to survive. Thankfully I should not have to make such a decision on a boat because of the 1508 people that needlessly did not survive in 1912.
Just my two cents worth.
Barb

[Babeba]

What about when you board an airplane? They say families with young children, and people who need extra assistance first. I don't think gender comes into it anymore.

There are still tons of people who go onboard early who don't seem to fit either of those criteria.

[Jane-C]

Hi All
I must agree with Brandyj on this one then I'd tie a whole lot of deckchairs together and make a raft.


Jane
(Sheer-Bliss)

PS: The concept of woman and children first came from the Birkenhead which was a troop ship that ran aground in 1852 at Danger Point Gansbaai which is about 200 miles from Cape Town. The ship did not have enough life boats (just like the Titanic) and the soldiers stood aside while woman and children were put in the available life boats only 193 people from a total of 643 survived. You can get full Wiki story here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_%281845%29

[Cynthia Anne]

I'm from the old school! Kids and women first! But I would help Suzy on to the life boat!

[Octavia1990]

its easy to say you would or wouldnt do something with out being in the actual situation you are talking about.if that were to happen the feeling of survival could kick in real quick and you would want off that sinking ship real quick.just saying

I'm with Charlene on this. Survival instincts will kick in. One can say we'll do this or that by writing on this board but once you are in the thick of it, peoples animal instinct for survival will kick in.

As to the "women and children", its a rule that really still has bearing today in my opinion. I believe what this is supposed to mean the very basic survival of the human race. The people that go will be able to carry our stories and memories for generations to come. First things first, get the children with their mothers on those boats. Second, women of child bearing age should be next. After that I don't know.

Just my two cents.