Need the help of the mothers!

[smellymelly]

I need the help of the older... wait no... wiser generation of crossdressers for relationship advise to see if i'm being crazy or what. i don't have a real close relationship with my mom so your probably better for it. anyway here goes, i have been with my girlfriend almost 5 years. after 6 months i told her m secret. she was confused, i answered her questions and got her to a better understanding. after the first year she was okay with it. and would make me over. after about 2 years she found it sexually exciting to explore maybe a bit of bi fantasies. well after year 3 occasionally when we would get in fights she'd bring up the crossdressing in someway. like "thats all i care about." so i'd tone it down. then randomly she would say she's not comfortable with it anymore. so i'd put it aside and leave it alone. then randomly one day she'd want to be involved again. then within a year it'd be creepy and un natural to her again. really confusing for me. and she started saying hateful things towards it when she'd feel backed into a corner about a completely different subject. she knew it was a weapon because randomly bringing up something about how it was weird would always hurt my feelings. well finally about 2 months ago i said i don't ever want her to be involved anymore if she just uses it to hurt me. and i've been good and haven't brought it up once! very proud of myself for that. but if i say something like "i need to shave my unibrow" she will yell back something like i don't even want to hear about that. i don't know what to do. i love her. and this is certainly not enough to make me question my relationship as i love her very much. maybe i just can't see what i'm doing wrong. was she just never okay with this and just saying she was to get me to like her more? i need your help mothers. what are your opinions. what am i missing? am i doing something wrong? i realy want to know be honest. this whole thing is keeping me sad way too much!

[bridget thronton]

It may not resolve itself - sounds like your gf has hurt feelings cuz you have told her you will not share an important part of your life with her (not taking sides just stating my impression)

[Kate T]

To start with on the plus side:
1. You told your partner very early in the relationship. GOOD!! It now means realistically you are not having to deal with the issue of broken trust but mainly dealing with the issues of what part of your relationship this plays, how much time money etc.
2. You obviously love your partner to be together for 5 years.
On the down side:
1. I'm not a big advocate of DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell). It works for some but to me it seems it just puts up an invisible barrier that is always there. BUT that doesn't mean you have to go on about it. CD / TG stuff would be talked about at most maybe once or twice a week in our house. Even then it is often something as simple as "gee that is a nice outfit that person is wearing / that is a lovely outfit". We will generally discuss or talk about in detail any TG related issue that arises in the news (e.g. same sex marriage).
2. You may not realise it but it is not only your partner using it as a weapon. Quote "i said i don't ever want her to be involved anymore if she just uses it to hurt me". Your conditional exclusion of her is also an emotional weapon.

Try reading the "Now I like it, Now I don't" thread in the Loved ones (it is a sticky thread so appears at the top). That may help. I think you need perhaps to reestablish some strong lines of communication with your partner, not just about this but more generally. After 5 years in a relationship communication can slip. You need to work on a relationship to make it last.

Good luck

[Tracii G]

She does need to be involved in some way I would think.
Really don't know the whole story to be honest.Maybe get her to join here.

[sterling12]

"The Mothers," I kind of like that! Beats being called an Old hag or something similar! I've been called a Mother before, but usually with a hyphen and another word added on. So, we thank you for being respectful.

But, IMHO, I'm afraid I might have bad news. Often, when a relationship is disintegrating, people will use lots of little things to fight about, to avoid dealing with The Obvious. Are you also fighting about a lot of other stuff too? That's not a good sign!

You say you love her, better make sure she understands that. That might be the only thing which might save The Relationship, or get you a temporary reprieve. It's likely the next big escalation will involve a lot more rules/mandates, and because it's important to you, it will no doubt feature a denial of privileges for expressing your femme-self. I think you better decide now how you will react. Better decide how much you can handle before it gets to be too much. You may have to decide if you can "give it up" for The Sake of Love, but be warned; we have had many others make the same declarations, and as time went by, their resolve wained. Best Option if still open, is a WORKABLE Compromise.

But, it's your call! You'll get just a boatload of opinions from each of us, but we ain't walkin' in your shoes. Sift through all this stuff, you might just find some alternative path....good luck, hope it works out for you and your Lady.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[noeleena]

Hi.

In these situstions id rather as iv done is talk with the person in this instinces i can not do that as i like to hear both sides & that means both people concerned & hear the other side as well.

My gut feeling is your girlfriend may like it as a bit of fun now & again its just there are uncertainties here that are underliying your dressing.

As im a woman i will see from her side. im not sure how far youll go with this, you see haveing fun is one thing being serous is another when a relastionship is involved. so you have to think as she does ,

Can you think or see it from her side, & what do you do when backed in to a corner ,
The ball in the court has changed places,

your a male & thats how she see's you, how do you wont to go on a soured relastsonship i think not ,
I cant see you stoping your dressing & she wonts a real male not really what your into.

What i would sugest is you both write down what you both need & your wonts & explain why. then hand to each your writeings & go from there.

I know where im comeing from as a woman & how i would see this, just i cant answer for your girlfriend & with out her input its some what harder,

...noeleena...

[Vickie_CDTV]

Sometimes the crossdressing can be used as a lightning rod for any other issues you may have in your relationship (it is not uncommon for this to happen.) From what you describe, I'd also take her claims of liking your crossdressing with a grain of salt. She might like it in very small doses very occasionally in private, but perhaps not more than that.

Whatever you do, please take care and make sure you do not get into any difficult or irrevocable commitments (having children, mixing finances, buying a home or car together) with this person until you get some of those issues in your relationship straightened out. Saying things without any purpose other than to hurt the other person is not the sign of a healthy, mature relationship.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Melly, It kind of sounds like that you are headed for an(( Either Or )) type of relationship.

[Stephenie S]

Vickie wrote: "Saying things without any purpose other than to hurt the other person is not the sign of a healthy, mature relationship."

I agree. And what bothers me most is the thought that you think both of you need "weapons" to deal with your relationship.

S

[Laura912]

There is a sense of immaturity running through this. It was mature of you to tell her about your dressing and she appears to have done well with it. However, to use it as a weapon is the immature part that will not survive a long relationship. To use a feature of a loved one as a weapon in a relationship is definitely immature whether it is body size, wearing glasses, etc. There are arguments in relationships but when one starts using weapons to try and hurt the other, the end of that relationship may be in sight. If your relationship comes apart, you will find that the other person will probably tell everyone. If you both can sit down and discuss this maybe things can be saved. Are you both willing to make that investment?

[Sandra]

I think you should both sit down and have a good talk about how things are. You did say that at one point "you toned it down" was you dressing more, and this maybe affecting your GF. You could have been doing to much and your GF was not sure how to say something to you about it.

[Gillian Gigs]

I find that on again, and off again situations are often based in insecurity. This can be caused by many different things. As the expression goes, walk a mile in the other person's shoes. If anything is going to change, you need to get to the root of the issue, and not just for your reasons, but for the health of the relationship. Love will find out what her issues are, and then help work them through to the conclusion.

[Stephanie47]

Your bio says you're 22. Five year relationship? Not married? It's not going to go well at all-the future. One cannot hold a sword over the head of another and use cross dressing as a weapon. I think in the past the expression a wife holds the equivalent of a 'nuclear weapon' and I have a bow and arrow. Anyone has a right to change their mind. Nobody has the right to psychologically abuse another.

It takes a very long time to forge true bonds of love and friendship that will survive cross dressing. I and my wife are in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" relationship which is preferable to me over a 'flip flopper." "Flip Flopping" should be left to politicians! :)

[smellymelly]

thank you soo much everyone. this is exactly what i wanted! i had a hard time seeing past my own issues and really wanted someone to disagree with me and tell me what i am blinded to... the things that i am doing wrong. yes at one point i talked about it far too often. which i knew bothered her but couldn't stop. thats why i had toned it down. i'm going to follow the advice and make a list. then we both can sit down and calmly discuss this. i really appreciate all your words alot. and as to if we fight alot... well actually no. we very very rarely fight! most of the time we don't have any issues whatsoever beyond what we are having for dinner. and yes the weapons things suck, but after thinking about it i need to be better about not forcing her in to that position. thanks again everyone! really!

[Roberta Marie]

The key to any relationship is communication. And the key to communication is listening. You and your girlfriend need to communicate. You need to tell her what you're feeling. Then you need to be quiet and listen to her tell you how she is feeling. And when I say listen, I don't mean listen with the intent of answering her questions or coming up with arguments. I mean listen with the intent of understanding what she is feeling.

And don't make crossdressing the topic of every conversation. That makes you the topic of every conversation. Try to focus the conversations on her, on her feelings. And not necessarily on her feelings about you crossdressing. That's still talking about you. Communicate with her, about her. Make her the focus, the center of your conversation. Try to understand what is gong on in her.

[katie_barns]

From your last post is sounds like you are on the right track. My gut feeling is there is more going on than just the CD'ing. You 2 have to drill down to the real issue. That means talk, talk, talk, talk.

[jillleanne]

Have you tried asking her the same questions and expressing the very same words to her that you just wrote here? I'm asking that because the answer you are looking for needs to come from a conversation between both of you. We all need to open up our thoughts with our closest ones' for the better of the relationship. Both partiess need to be honest and open with each other and it's very easy to do. No two people are alike, therefore, for a relationship to work both people must accept who the other person really is, in their entireity, or something will go haywire at some point. It's so very important two people in a relationship do all they can to help the other be happy. Sure we all have bad days and both need to remember that and recognize that verbally to each other when it is happening so it can be dealt with on the spot. My s/o had one yesterday. I told her laughingly how she was being so rude to me all day. Before bedtime last night, she apologized and all was well. Communication, honesty, and acceptance of the fact no one is perfect and we all have faults makes any relationship stronger in the long run.

[Lady Panda]

[COLOR="darkorchid"]Your bio says you're 22. Five year relationship? Not married?



One thing I can say ....She may be going thru a searching period that happens with GGs ...considering you got together at 17....speaking from experience..I got involved w/ my ex husband at 16 and at 22 there are some many changes people go thru in the process of growing from teenager to adult 21 or 22 that coupled w the fact that youboth have been involved for 5 years . She sounds like she is going thru growing pains..emotional growing pains. She may be wondering ...where is this going?....will all these struggles continue?.....how will this affect a family in the future? ...can I really handle all of this?...what if someone finds out? .. can I handle the fallout?

From what I can see she is searchig for answers......she wants to know how far do you want to go with your dressing in the future ...will he cheat if he decides he wants to experiment with the Pink Fog feelings of maybe being attracted to men while in femme. asking herself..Can I handle it if it happens?


Sounds like it's time to sit down and have a serious talk to help both of you figure out which way to go.

Hope that this might give you some perspective and a jumping off point for a good honest conversation.

I would give my daughter the same advice. Being that my daughter is 19. Being that I am a MOM.

Keep me posted...if you need to talk I'm here. I have been a leaning board for many of my daughters friends. They often bounce ideas and seek advice..So it's no bother. In fact i don't mind helping out.

[DonnaT]

don't let anyone tell you a relationship that starts so young can't last. My SIL and her husband got together younger than that, and have been married over 35 yrs.

I met my wife when I was 19, been married for 37 yrs this month. My CDing has been the cause of a number of arguments, but I've never gotten angry with my wife and started an argument over anything.

I wonder if your GF is looking for more, like marriage? Something to add to the list for discussion. If it's in your future, she really needs to be aware that this CDing is a part of who you are as a whole, and isn't ever going to go away.

[Lady Panda]

don't let anyone tell you a relationship that starts so young can't last. My SIL and her husband got together younger than that, and have been married over 35 yrs.

I met my wife when I was 19, been married for 37 yrs this month. My CDing has been the cause of a number of arguments, but I've never gotten angry with my wife and started an argument over anything.

I wonder if your GF is looking for more, like marriage? Something to add to the list for discussion. If it's in your future, she really needs to be aware that this CDing is a part of who you are as a whole, and isn't ever going to go away.

I was not saying that people who get together young cannot make it ....I was saying she is asking where is this going.. in other words ...are going to get married and all the things that go with it.


I also said that she is searching for answers.

[DonnaT]

Sorry LP if it looked like I was responding to your post. I didn't even read the whole thread. Just a coincidence :)

[Beverley Sims]

Melly, I think most others have covered the subject.
I can only advise go slowly now and not bring up the subject of cross dressing too frequently.
Testing the waters can bring on impatience very quickly.
All the best for both of your futures together.

[smellymelly]

This may surprise everyone, but actually we talk very often. have long discussions, and just sit there and listen to our emotions and fears. she has expressed many of her feelings of how my crossdressing will progress. i have told her i don't have any desire to go full time, and i genuinely like being her man as well. but yes with the marriage thing... i feel terrible about that. i really want to marry her! i know she will be the woman i marry, and she has told me she really wants to get married. unfortunately, i don't have the money to buy a nice ring and wedding, so i'd feel terrible giving her anything less than an absolutely perfect wedding.
last night we were in bed for about 2 hours and we just talked. i expressed some of my concerns. i re worded what i said to her in the past, and told her i felt bad for making it sound like a punishment to you, by not involving her in my crossdressing. i told her i would like her involved, only when and if she is ever ready. i promised not to rush her and i promised that if she never wanted to get involved, that i wouldn't love her any less. she seemed happy with this. i think its what she wanted to hear as the bottom line. we talked about some of her insecurities based on her past, and what i can do and what she can do to help work out these issues. it was a lovely discussion. as i said we get along great and have an amazing time together. i think just at some point i forgot that i have to work at improving the relationship instead of just leaving them alone. i thank you all. i quoted many of you, in my own words, as several of you hit the nail right on the head!! and i appreciate everyones honest and very knowledgeable replies!
Also we know the statistics of high school sweet hearts staying together. and we know the odds are not in ourr favor. but we also know if you go in to a relationship expecting failure, than chances are you will get failure. and i know we will in 40 years be laughing about how we were in that minority of people that were not supposed to make it but we did =)
thanks again everyone! this was more than just venting for me, and i appreciate every word. you are the best mamas a cd'er could ever ask for!!!!!

[Roberta Marie]

It sounds like the two of you have a great relationship. Don't worry about the statistics and what others say about your relationship not lasting. When my wife and I got married, both of our parents said that it would not last more than 6 months. That was 34 years (and 5 kids) ago, and we are still going strong. Also, I wouldn't wait until you can afford the perfect wedding. Perfect is next to impossible, and you may be waiting a long time. Besides, the wedding only lasts a day, the marriage can last a life time.

[smellymelly]

It sounds like the two of you have a great relationship. Don't worry about the statistics and what others say about your relationship not lasting. When my wife and I got married, both of our parents said that it would not last more than 6 months. That was 34 years (and 5 kids) ago, and we are still going strong. Also, I wouldn't wait until you can afford the perfect wedding. Perfect is next to impossible, and you may be waiting a long time. Besides, the wedding only lasts a day, the marriage can last a life time.

i liked the words you ended that on actually. and i suppose in a way just us being together is perfect. we connect on so many levels. i've had plenty of girlfriends in high school and i never felt the way i do with this girl. but that was high school. can't take those relationships too seriously. just lessons to learn from.

and roberta "You need to tell her what you're feeling. Then you need to be quiet and listen to her tell you how she is feeling. And when I say listen, I don't mean listen with the intent of answering her questions or coming up with arguments. I mean listen with the intent of understanding what she is feeling." i told her i wanted to try to be better at this. we both admitted we were guilty of trying to come up with things to say during a fight. but this little piece of advise is gold! we tried it tonight. worked soo well!

[jillleanne]

Melly, as for that ring and wedding, remember it's all symbolic and wastes alot of hard earned money if only for a moment in time. Keep the money for something else like some one day romantic get-a-ways. You'll appreciate it far more. A big wedding will not sustain a marriage; open communication, pure honesty, telling each other daily you love them, acknowledging and accepting each others faults will carry you both well into your senior days and beyond.

[kimdl93]

I think yoour problems boil down to basic communications. Each of us has communication 'habits' that can be counter-productive, even hurtful in a relationship. In an argument, its common for individuals to bring up tangential or even unrelated issues if it seems to gain momentary advantage. There are two things you can do. One - learn focus conversations about disagreements to the subject at hand...and agree to not allow tangential matters come up. If they do - the technique is to say "we are talking about <topic a> now, we can talk about my CDing tomorrow. If your GF won't follow that policy, then simply and calmly suggest that the discussion end until she's willing to do so.

On the subject of how she responds to your CDing...you need allow yourselves much more time talk more about what it means to you and to her.

[Vickie_CDTV]

unfortunately, i don't have the money to buy a nice ring and wedding, so i'd feel terrible giving her anything less than an absolutely perfect wedding.


Whatever you do, don't go into debt just to have a wedding and buy a ring, that is one of the worst things a young married couple can do. If you eventually have some money, have a small wedding and moderately priced ring for her and put the remainder you would have spent into a down payment for a home, or put it into savings instead.



Also we know the statistics of high school sweet hearts staying together. and we know the odds are not in ourr favor. but we also know if you go in to a relationship expecting failure, than chances are you will get failure. and i know we will in 40 years be laughing about how we were in that minority of people that were not supposed to make it but we did =)


Think of it this way, people don't buy car insurance and then expect to get into an accident, it is a way to manage risk just in case and protect themselves. Go into the relationship planning for the best, but at the same time understand the risks as well. (Along the same lines, if you do decide to get married asking for a pre-nuptual agreement to protect both of you is not an unreasonable idea.)

[smellymelly]

haha we entered the relationship in high school with only a little money. we both work full time and have money now to make it through our day to day. pre nuptual's wouldn't really be something we'd be interested in. we made all our money together and she helped me through college, so i have no issues in her taking what she deserves. and thanks again everyone we've been talking every night so far. nice long talks. kim you are exactly right. we are learning new communication habits, and it is working amazing!!