Trans: "from one to the other"

[Inna]

Interestingly another thread that I authored had given rise to this thread and another observation which really isn't that new, however many have misunderstood the concept of Crossdressing being a starting point of expression and then perhaps morphing into more substantial state of transsexuality.

Many have said that they haven't considered them selves crossdressers because they were in fact born Transsexuals, however I will put forth this argument:

Nearly all of us suffering from TS had been born a woman however we had been dealt birth abnormality in having sexually dimorphic body.
Transsexuality is a disease of dis-congruity of body and gender and therefore curable, and most of the time the symptoms slowly lead us to discover first the obvious, I AM A CROSSDRESSER and then deeper evaluation in fact to discovery TRANSEXUALITY.

What do you think????

[Barbara Ella]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and there is definitely a correlation for many. realizing i am a crossdresser does not automatically lead to transsexuality. However, I am beginning to accept more and more that my realization that I am a crossdresser a mere 11 months ago has led to much deeper looks into my true soul. Why did nothing surface until I turned 65, or did I really not recognize the signs that were there (and now I see many) and repressed them for whatever reason? My psyche has undergone some wrenching turns over the last 11 months. I still do not know really where I am, but I have my increasingly focused idea, and I have little to discuss with the many who have known they were really a woman for a very long time, but my heart is with you. I know that accepting crossdressing and putting on panties 11 months ago, and then progressing along those lines has truly brought out things that I now can see were there. If I am to suffer this disease, as put here, I will do so willingly, knowing at my age there is probably little I can do about it.

Love and Peace, Barbara

[morgan51]

I sure as hell didn't know what to call it at 4 years of age. I suppose you could have a point though. I knew I was assigned the wrong clothes. My parents were just as sure I was wrong! lol

[docrobbysherry]

Like Barbara, I didn't begin dressing until I was over 50. I'm over 60 now. Unlike her, there were NO clues, hints, or anything in my earlier years to indicate why I suddenly would begin dressing!

After joining here, I kept waiting for my inevitable "female side" to appear! But, after nearly 5 years I've pretty much given up waiting for THAT shoe to drop! I've also given up thots of "becoming" TS.

[noeleena]

Hi,

What if your not trans or a dresser,& you cant change from one to the other what then, & your some thing else, prob is you know me so it makes it easer for you to answer so we say you dont know about my self how would you answer your ? .in reverance to those of us who dont come under this dresser or trans spectrum

when we who are different, we dont come thinking oh dear i was born this way i need to change to the other then you see your self you know theres nothing to change,

Its not about clothes & all that, its about who you are inside,

...noeleena...

[Melody Moore]

This might come as a surprise to some people, but I NEVER IDENTIFIED AS CROSSDRESSER, in fact I hardly ever heard the term
until only a few years ago. 'Tranny' or transvestite was the word I heard used a lot more. However I have known I was transsexual
since the age of 15 because I knew then I wanted to undergo SRS. Before this I was just dressing up to be me, but I felt guilty
and ashamed about it because I was fearful of people thinking I might be a transvestite. So "No", I don't believe I have felt like
a male wearing female clothes. So I think it is wrong to assume that we were all identified as crossdressers before transition.

[Jeanna]

Inna, it maybe true for some people but many here started dressing way before puberty. Maybe some of us are trans and really try to believe that we are only crossdressers. What do you think?

[LeaP]

...

Nearly all of us suffering from TS had been born a woman however we had been dealt birth abnormality in having sexually dimorphic body.
Transsexuality is a disease of dis-congruity of body and gender and therefore curable, and most of the time the symptoms slowly lead us to discover first the obvious, I AM A CROSSDRESSER and then deeper evaluation in fact to discovery TRANSEXUALITY.

What do you think????

It's a common way for identity to break through. Many TS in the forum once thought they were CDers. But it's by no means universal.

For TS people, there seems to be a number of common differentiators, though again, not universal. One is dissatisfaction or frustration while dressing, sometimes from the outset. Eventually they dissociate their femininity from the clothing. Another is experiencing feelings like relief without an associated sense of identity shift. there is no fetish aspect (not to suggest that all CDers are fetishistic). Sexual aspects of dressing with TS people is usually associated with relieving psychological pressure and doesn't persist with most, if it manifests at all. Fantasy dressing is uncommon (ignoring Halloween here).

Personal observations only. YMMV.

[kimdl93]

I can only speak from personal experience. My gender identity was at the very least atypical as a young child. My interests didn't entirely conform with the other biological males...to put it simply, I liked a lot of girl things. In the interests of self defense, I early on learned to suppress these interests. I have a twin and older male siblings. None exhibited these behaviors...so I have concluded that I was indeed dealt a developmental difference (I won't use the term disease).

but as a child and even as an adult, I lacked a frame of reference for understanding what I felt inside. Over time, I've gone through many phases in CD evolution from limited "fetish" dressing to underdressing to full femme. My understanding of myself has evolved as well,so that what I once characterized as a personality quirk, I know perceive as transgenderism...with a pronounced tilt towards transexuality. I don't know if I've changed or if my understanding of self has changed, or if its a little of both.

[elizabethamy]

So is the phenomenon of crossdressing "progressive" if we try hard to figure out what it means, and it's not progressive if we just accept it and enjoy it? Is it based on the personality of the person blessed with the gift of transgender tendencies? There are definitely differences among us, in many ways. For example, many if not most of the posts on crossdressers.com are about clothes, shoes, hair, makeup, etc. Then there are those of us who like dressing but do so out of a sense of need and really don't obsess about looking spectacular. Others -- mostly advanced ts women -- have said they find the whole dressing thing annoying because it's just the surface.

Sometimes I wonder if my life would be easier if I had never discovered this site or forced myself to try to understand why I started crossdressing in my mid 50s and what it ultimately means. Sometimes I envy those guys who become glam girls for a night or a weekend and whose idea of a support group is about trading clothing and makeup tips. Sometimes I wonder if back in the day crossdressers -- except, of course, those who spent a lifetime consciously seized by the obsession that they were born in the wrong body -- lived their secret lives with less anguish about what would ultimately be required: transition? divorce? moving to another state or country? etc.

But then I remember that perhaps this pre-internet private suffering was the cause of all those suicides by our transcestors, and I welcome the support here and the information that we all share.

The longer I study this and live in this baffling way as a man who thinks he need to throw it all away and become a woman, the more I realize how different we all are. The path is long and twisting and ultimately different for each person...do we "become" trans or "discover" it in ourselves?

We are so far from a complete understanding of this phenomenon that fascinates scientists but that *is* our life. 2 cents. need less coffee.

elizabethamy

[Jorja]

I knew from 3-4 years old. I wanted someone, anyone to listen to me. No one would though. "Your a boy and you will act and dress as a boy. That is how it is". I would dress hoping to get "caught". I would get my ass beat repeatedly because I would dress. After I learned that something could really be done about my situation, I stood up and announced at dinner one night that someday I would become a girl with or without thier help. I got backhanded and knocked across the kitchen for that. It took another 12 years before I would transition but I did and did not look back.

[Michelle.M]

It's a common way for identity to break through. Many TS in the forum once thought they were CDers. But it's by no means universal.

That really sums it up. Here's a premise:

A person senses something is amiss and doesn't know why or what to do about it. He or she experiments with dressing (like many here have done) or a lesbian / gay encounter (this was characteristic of Chaz Bono's experience) but eventually comes to realize that they're still barking up the wrong tree.

Conclusion? Although our friend "was" a crossdresser it wasn't exactly crossdressing as many here are experiencing it. It was simply a path to self discovery. I have a transman friend who recalls his days as a "lesbian". While he was, in fact, having a lesbian relationship the activity was merely a vehicle to help him sort out what as really happening in his life. Post transition the lesbian title no longer applies, and probably never really did in the first place.

What Lea and I and others here are saying is that these are not necessarily the required paths to self discovery. For me wearing women's clothes is just . . . clothes! Nothing more than that. Aside from the occasional foray into my sister's closet when she was away I never really had any interest in dressing, and that was only to get a sense of my own self image. In fact, as a photographer who specializes in glamour work I have a studio full of cute women's clothes and shoes, and even though all that stuff was within arm's reach I never gave a thought to raiding my own studio wardrobe until recently, and that's only after a year and a half in transition!

Same for personal relationships. Never had a same sex experience or a boyfriend until after I began my transition.

While crossdressing may be a typical path to discovering one's transsexual identity it is certainly not a requirement. Nor does it, as some assert, "cause" one to be transsexual.

Although crossdressing may validate one's own path toward self discovery the absence or presence of a crossdressing experience really has very little to do with the validity of anyone else's ultimate gender identity.

[Nicole Brown]

Very interesting topic Inna, and truly well timed for me. I started crossdressing prior to my 8th birthday and have never totally stopped. Sure there were times when I dressed less, think of raising 2 young children as an example, but never lost the the need nor desire to wear feminine attire. I continued to consider myself a crossdresser until about 6 or 7 years ago when due to circumstances I was presented with the opportunity to dress nearly every weekday and to spend extended periods of a week or more living full time.

At that time, I realized that that the desire to dress was becoming a need, a very deep seated need. Presenting as a female began feeling much more normal to me than presenting as a male. I discovered that I loved going out as a woman much more than going out as a male. I began to feel really uncomfortable going out without my makeup and hair in place. I found myself enjoying the things which are typically preferred by woman. I found myself enjoying shopping, but only for female items. I was already in counseling thanks to a troubled marriage, so I began discussing these feelings with my therapist during solo sessions.

This led to my beginning solo counseling with my current therapist over 2 years ago. With his help, I have found my true self and accepted that I am really beyond being a crossdresser. This realization came upon me over a year ago and I am now in the process of getting my ducks in a row and preparing to begin living full time and the start of my transition.

To date I have completed my facial laser treatments, had 4 electrolysis treatments, plus identified and spoken with both my soon to be endocrinologist and surgeon. But the biggest, most important event for me was yesterday when my therapist presented me with my HRT letter. This single event has made such a total change in how I look at and how I view myself. I am no longer a crossdresser I now consider myself a pre op transsexual woman.

[Amy Fakley]

Having lurked more forums than I can count over the years, I have made this observation: you can always tell if you're in CD or TS forum by how depressive the conversation is.

I don't mean that as a criticism, I really don't. I think there is a continuum with over the top drag queens on the one end, and stealth-mode TS folks on the other ... and the conversation ranges from straight up porn on the one hand to fashion tips and eventually right through transition, and hormones and angst, etc.

TS folk deal with some of the heaviest sh!t imaginable.

I don't know if it's a progression typically, but I think for me it is. My first inklings came when I was far too young to make sense of it (around 9 or 10 years old) ... it seems as the years go by it's like a thread being slowly pulled out of a sweater ... the more unraveled my life becomes ... the further along the continuum I seem to go. Almost like it's an inevitable end state.

I really don't think that's necessarily true for most though ... or maybe it is I dunno. Excellent thread though ... these responses have been so thought provoking to read over my coffee this morning.

[ColleenA]

While reviewing this thread, it hit me - being TS is like being in an episode of "House" (I apologize for this analogy relying on a "disease" model):

First, a person has a condition that is baffling (though it may have taken years, even decades, for "symptoms" to appear), and no one knows exactly what it is.

Then, some more common "diagnoses" are made - "I must be gay," "I must be a crossdresser, but, hey, I'm not gay." However, the patient isn't responding as might be expected to the prescribed "treatment." There is more to it, something that has still been missed.

Meanwhile, the diagnosticians - parents, society, therapists, even (and especially) oneself - are uninformed about the actual root cause.

After a variety of diagnoses/remedies are considered and found lacking, it is only in the final 8 minutes (oops, scratch that; this is NOT a TV show - pun intended) when seemingly disconnected, but in fact salient, details are brought together that you (and you alone, as master/mistress of the House) realize what has been there all along. What previously was a blur in front of you, an amorphous blob that defied description, (suddenly?) comes into focus.

Finally, with a diagnosis that fits all the facts (but only after dealing with the fear and the denial), you start becoming a specialist on the condition and take on the role of healer. You enlist other specialists in a variety of capacities, but you are the head of the medical intervention team - no one else can apply the "cure" properly as you can and must.



... observation: you can always tell if you're in CD or TS forum by how depressive the conversation is.
...
TS folk deal with some of the heaviest sh!t imaginable.

This is true. But consider, given how extreme the "cure" (to continue the analogy from above) is and how pervasive (is there any part of your life it does NOT affect?), not to mention the fact that there is virtually no preparation one might have received before discovering the true diagnosis, transitioning is not for wimps!

One final thought, then I'll shut up about this: Oftentimes when someone is in a medical crisis (say, cancer, or coma after a car accident), a majority of family members and friends will rally around them (though there is no guarantee that all will). That situation, unfortunately, is flipped for most TS's - and far too many of those people not only are not supportive but become actual obstacles in one's life.

Which is why forums such as this one become sources of both information and support. Thank you then to all those who provide positive energy through this site!:gh:

[elizabethamy]

colleen, that really speaks to me. brilliant analogy!

e.a.

[Rachel Renee]

It took me quite a long time to put the pieces together. I always figured myself a crossdresser, completely unaware that it was part and parcel of other issues I have dealt with my whole life. When I was a kid I had no frame of reference. No context. Though I never really felt male, I was never necessarily disgusted with my boy bits. Just indifferent to them. This led me to believe that I couldn't possibly be transexual. I didn't know from the time I was a toddler that I should have been a girl. I just thought I was a really strange boy. Until a few years ago, I would never let myself contemplate these things too deeply because I didn't want to discover that I was more than just a crossdresser, even though I had suspicions. But how many times can I get smacked in the face with these thoughts and feelings and still pretend to be uncertain? I hit my limit this year.

Even as recently as three months ago I was still holding back. I'd think to myself "maybe, probably, NOPE!" Then about two months ago something happened that changed me and my perception of myself, and there's no going back. I was sitting at my desk at home, studying for a Microsoft exam and listening to some music, when all of a sudden, and I do mean sudden, I got it. Intense clarity. I broke down and sobbed harder than I have in my entire adult life. It was an epic emotional release that must have been building for a very long time and it took almost an hour to regain my composure. The final wall dropped away and when the dust settled, I could finally see me. That was it. My entire life finally made sense and the hiding and pretending were over. I slept like a log that night.

So I didn't go from one to the other. I just needed to finally get out of my own way in order to see who I really am. That was easier said than done but now that I'm here, I'm formulating a plan and a new future for myself. Still ain't easy but at least I can look myself in the eyes now.

[LeaP]

... First, a person has a condition that is baffling (though it may have taken years, even decades, for "symptoms" to appear), and no one knows exactly what it is.

Then, some more common "diagnoses" are made - "I must be gay," "I must be a crossdresser, but, hey, I'm not gay." However, the patient isn't responding as might be expected to the prescribed "treatment." There is more to it, something that has still been missed.

Meanwhile, the diagnosticians - parents, society, therapists, even (and especially) oneself - are uninformed about the actual root cause.

After a variety of diagnoses/remedies are considered and found lacking, it is only in the final 8 minutes (oops, scratch that; this is NOT a TV show - pun intended) when seemingly disconnected, but in fact salient, details are brought together that you (and you alone, as master/mistress of the House) realize what has been there all along. What previously was a blur in front of you, an amorphous blob that defied description, (suddenly?) comes into focus.

Finally, with a diagnosis that fits all the facts (but only after dealing with the fear and the denial), you start becoming a specialist on the condition and take on the role of healer. You enlist other specialists in a variety of capacities, but you are the head of the medical intervention team - no one else can apply the "cure" properly as you can and must. ...


Well, kind of.

The condition isn't so much baffling as denied. Far from symptoms taking years to appear, they manifest in pretty common lifelong patterns. The diagnosis may or may not be discerned at some level by the doctor, but the patient has to make the diagnosis before treatment begins. Whereupon, the patient starts bargaining over the scope of treatment, finally, as you indicate, becoming a specialist.

Your family support comments are well-taken, but the patient is typically the bigger obstacle.

[Pexetta]

all of a sudden, and I do mean sudden, I got it. Intense clarity. I broke down and sobbed harder than I have in my entire adult life. It was an epic emotional release that must have been building for a very long time and it took almost an hour to regain my composure. The final wall dropped away and when the dust settled, I could finally see me. That was it. My entire life finally made sense and the hiding and pretending were over.

I could quote your whole post and put 'This.' underneath, but I'll settle for the bit above. I've been going through a very similar experience this last month, after decades of trying to prove to myself that I just liked crossdressing. It was the tears that finally convinced me - I went through a year of clinical depression without shedding one, and yet while I was 'coming out to myself' I actually fell asleep crying three nights in a row. I thought 'This kind of emotion doesn't come from nowhere.'

[Rachel Renee]

I thought 'This kind of emotion doesn't come from nowhere.'
And it can shake you to your core. Perhaps that's why they say your "bell has rung".

[KellyJameson]

My experience with crossdressing started with drag shows and most were gay but clearly male but within this world were a few who were transsexual who may or may not be gay but you could feel the difference and if you were part of the show and became friendly with everyone the differences became clear even though I did not understand at the time the meaning of the differences only that there were two distinct groups within one group of people who appeared to be the same from the outside.

I have met many people who crossdress for many reasons who were not transsexual but I have never met someone who is transsexual that did not crossdress at some
point in an effort to make themselves whole again.

I see now the difference between "identity" and "all other reasons" and it was "all other reasons" that made my own understanding of identity so difficult to grasp.

Trying to find myself in others (who am I/what am I/why am I like this) prevented me from finding myself.

I could not hear myself because of all the noise that I had surrounded myself with.

Once I understood how identity is innate and you are born predisposed to adopt the social identity that you are innately born with and not the one socially decided by your physical appearance everything became clear.

The mind is like a complicated lock that only one key (identity) will open.

It is my opinion most people experience some level of gender dysphoria, they just do not learn to identify it as such because they do not suffer enough to make the effort
needed for understanding.

But when you stand on opposite sides from your body that is when it becomes intolerable and you have to act.

[Thera Home]

What do you think????

Hi Inna
You made the mistake of asking "what I think" so here goes.
(My opinion so don't "wig" out) I made a funny:heehee:

This euphoria of imitating the opposite sex is fun and has a very pleasurable feeling.
But, I do not want to be a woman. I read about folks wanting to be girls, Feel like girls in the wrong body,yadi yadi yadi. Have you ever seen a woman expierence menstration? Suffer with carrying a child for 9 months, have freak out moments for no apparent reason?(Ill never figure that one out).Be so conscience(sp?) of how they look to where theyll go overboard on how to make themselves even more beautiful(they think) that they ruin thier bodies?:eek:
No, Im happy with my male body. Just like to pretty it up once in a while but thats it. So anyway, the phones ringing and you guys lucked out because I could write a thesis on this and then quiz you:heehee:

Thera

[Inna]

Hi Inna
You made the mistake of asking "what I think" so here goes.
(My opinion so don't "wig" out) I made a funny:heehee:

This euphoria of imitating the opposite sex is fun and has a very pleasurable feeling.
But, I do not want to be a woman. I read about folks wanting to be girls, Feel like girls in the wrong body,yadi yadi yadi. Have you ever seen a woman expierence menstration? Suffer with carrying a child for 9 months, have freak out moments for no apparent reason?(Ill never figure that one out).Be so conscience(sp?) of how they look to where theyll go overboard on how to make themselves even more beautiful(they think) that they ruin thier bodies?:eek:
No, Im happy with my male body. Just like to pretty it up once in a while but thats it. So anyway, the phones ringing and you guys lucked out because I could write a thesis on this and then quiz you:heehee:

Thera


Spoken like a true MALE.........(pun intended), LOL

[elizabethamy]

"Like all explorers, we are drawn to discover what's out there without knowing yet if we have the courage to face it." -- Pema Chodron.

[Thera Home]

Spoken like a true MALE.........(pun intended), LOL

Well Thank You Inna
Flattery will get you no where:heehee:
Anyway, your avatar? very intresting. Too me(I mean no offense) it looks like a left over salad, sorry Im hungry right now and it sounds like a good idea.:D
Have a great one

Thera

[LisaMallon]

when all of a sudden, and I do mean sudden, I got it. Intense clarity. I broke down and sobbed harder than I have in my entire adult life. .

Did something very similar myself. Just after my first therapy session. Despite all my self searching that I had done up to then, after he started talking about transition (remember this is was my first session and this was very unusual for him according to other girls who have seen him) I went home and sobbed my heart out for all the lost years.

[amielts]

Nearly all of us suffering from TS had been born a woman however we had been dealt birth abnormality in having sexually dimorphic body.
Transsexuality is a disease of dis-congruity of body and gender and therefore curable, and most of the time the symptoms slowly lead us to discover first the obvious, I AM A CROSSDRESSER and then deeper evaluation in fact to discovery TRANSEXUALITY.
What do you think????

Agreed. However some people do realise they are TS without going through thinking that they are CD.

[Beverley Sims]

Blame the stork, or whomever delivered you at birth.
He/she held you up by the ankles found you had an appendage between your legs and then on his/her check list ticked boy.
Not being a mind reader what else was he to do.
If you had a receptacle for the appendage she/he ticked girl.
That is where trick cyclists and psychologists come in.
They get to use all the wordy discussions that are going on here and make lots of money in the process.
SRS is a good science and the medications that are used with it are diabolical but effective.
Christine Jorgensen and others back in the early 50s did not have the internet.
Victor Borge explained that there were three sexes in Denmark.
Male, Female and convertible.
I think this thread has been done to death and there is plenty to read about.
Why not PM each other and say bury the hatchet and we will talk about more constructive subjects.
The CD'ers over there are talking about their first time out and loving it.
The other posts in this part of the forum are discovering things about each other.
So ladies, maybe you can pick on me now.:)

[ColleenA]

Safe to assume "trick cyclists" is auto correct for "psychiatrists"? :thinking:

[elizabethamy]

I don't know, navigating life with serious GID requires a lot of trick cycling!