So someone needs to start an awareness program

[Sarah27]

So i'm tired of the general public being sure that any male that looks feminine and/or wears makeup nail polish or womens clothing is gay and they are without a doubt completely sure of that from a complete unawareness of anyone like me or millions of people like me. It is because of this unawareness that we are not able to do the things that we most deeply desire in our hearts and that we are considered not even taboo but nonexistent. It is not even know to most of the general public that I exist. I have only been able to come to terms with myself recently with the understanding that it's ok to be gay, though i'm not at all, and that if people want to think that i'm gay then that's allright because it's better than the eternal torment of having to live in the torture of having to completely refute my identity. I realize that by doing this that I won't be able to find a girl to date or marry nearly as easily as another guy, but I don't care, I need someone that's willing to be with me for who I am, so why not give a clue to what I am before meeting them, and maybe i'll meet noone and be alone forever, but it is still irrelevant but sad. If it was know that we existed, assuming the reader is like me, then we might have a chance to exist in the real world, not hiding in the shadows and trees, stealing things because we're too embarrassed to buy them, hiding our identity from our friends and family, ending our lives at a much higher rate than the average, etc... I mean seriously, homosexual people are having problems with the constitution at the moment with gay marriage and fighting it. Straight crossdressers and people with GID are not even existent in the reality of today, we an also fight. I think the main detraction from "coming out" is that we will be labeled gay. I do not dislike gay people, and am actually fond of them, i'm just tired of being labeled as one for my entire life. We need to make our existence known. We would not only save millions of lives, save possibly millions more wasted lives of searching for answers, make it socially acceptable for more females to outwardly consider being with said people, etc..., this is the last frontier of interhuman intellect and it is inevitable and necessary. We need to stand up as girls and women, with our girlfriends and wives and fight and show the world that everyone that has a little nail polish or plucked eyebrows are not homosexual.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Im not sure where you live or what your relastionship is with people , yet there is a way of doing things with out confrontsion .
Im not going to say whats worked for me will for you or any one else,

iv reached about 4 millon people yes the figger is correct, 3 millon here in N Z nation wide,
& its not made up & wether any one wont's to belive me or not is of no concern to me. put my name on the net. youll soon see.

I was interviewed for our Two main T V statons for Papers & many sites on the net,i had friends going back 0ver 50 years ring me up. plus many others come up to me just to say hi.

yea i know im a bit different yet my mesage was out there for all to see. & that was done over one night.
& then there were meeting's i attended & gave talks about my difference,

You need to be an open book you need to be up front with people & be hoinist with people being in the media made so much of a difference & that included Jos & about our Kids,

if you cant take the heat then dont do what we have done , We had the right people in the right place at the right time, & it worked so well it could not have been better,

& its no use talking about it, its in the doing plus being photographyed. no pic then no one knows you,
you do have to front up to this is who i am, talk's cheap you have to do the walk as well.

Any way demands , force & makeing people accept you....... does not work. people accept because they wont to.

...noeleena...

[Vickie_CDTV]

Many years ago there was a media push (spearheaded primarily by Tri-Ess I believe) to get the word out about heterosexual TVism (and that dressing does not always equal gay) though talk shows, articles in newspapers, even a few appearances of hetero TVs on popular TV shows. Unfortunately, it met with limited success.

[Sarah27]

I live in the United States and many repressed groups have been accepted and embraced openly in this country in the last few hundred years from either advocacy, war, etc... And it does work. The general public is very persuasive and not too intelligent in general. They do what they do because everyone else does it and they have been told to do it that way. People want things and see things because other people want and see things. Humans are born with certain genes ingrained in them, they are raised in a world full of surroundings to sway them one way or another on decisions like to become an astronaut or carpenter, all of these decisions and thoughts are persuadable with the right argument. There is not genetic variance that tells people to dislike or misunderstand people like us, therefore it is a taught perception and can be swayed easily with little advocacy and teaching. I'm sorry, you may be a television star in your country on transgenderism but in my opinion you have no idea of the deep psychology of humans.

[jillleanne]

Good for you Sarah. Now have this post published in your local newspaper along with your picture. Set up interviews with every television station you can access. Start an annual TG parade in your area for all to enjoy. And stay strong and continue on this pilgramage you have begun. It's the only way we will achieve just what you seek. I differ in a small way from you in that I do not want people to think I am gay; I'm not. I want them to know I'm TG and it's ok to be TG. So I go out there into the trenches daily en femme and whomever comes to realize I am of no harm to them, the better. I would like to believe that whomever thinks hiding in a house will get them social acceptance( if that is what they wish for), knows they are just kidding themselves and aside from making alot of noise complaining, are waiting for someone else to do all the dirty work for them.

[Sophia Claire]

there's a military saying that I think applies here:

"Sounds like you just volunteered for that committee."

;)

[Beth Wilde]

there's a military saying that I think applies here:

"Sounds like you just volunteered for that committee."

;)

That's the military alright!! But it's a good point......

I differ slightly in that people know I'm gay, and most know I am Beth too! I also tell them that the 2 are NOT linked!!

[BRANDYJ]

Unlike the OP, I could care less for social acceptance from the masses. Further, I would bet my bottom dollar that I am in the majority on this. I am happy being a man that happens to have a small fem side that I like to express through dressing in the privacy of my home or where ever else it is accepted; such as known clubs that enjoy having TG people patronize them. It is no big deal to me to be able to go out in public. I keep my dressing private other then some very close friends and my SO. I think a few wave the banner of public acceptance and going out into the general public as being that important to all of us... It's not.
I don't think we will ever see the day that the majority of our society, world wide will ever accept a man in a dress and trying to look and act like a female. It's not gonna happen and I'm really OK with that.
Not much different then the naturalist or nudist that would like to present naked in public. That's never gonna be acceptable either. Just be happy! It is what it is.

[Sophia Claire]

Unlike the OP, I could care less for social acceptance from the masses. Further, I would bet my bottom dollar that I am in the majority on this. I am happy being a man that happens to have a small fem side that I like to express through dressing in the privacy of my home or where ever else it is accepted; such as known clubs that enjoy having TG people patronize them. It is no big deal to me to be able to go out in public. I keep my dressing private other then some very close friends and my SO. I think a few wave the banner of public acceptance and going out into the general public as being that important to all of us... It's not.
I don't think we will ever see the day that the majority of our society, world wide will ever accept a man in a dress and trying to look and act like a female. It's not gonna happen and I'm really OK with that.
Not much different then the naturalist or nudist that would like to present naked in public. That's never gonna be acceptable either. Just be happy! It is what it is.

the sheer volume of posts on this forum alone about going out en femme and the amount of support they receive seem to suggest that you might lose your dollar. Some people prefer to keep their dressing private, and some (such as myself) can't do it publicly, and some fear for their safety in general population (so to speak). The difference between CDs and nudists is that our thing is just weird. It's not illegal anymore. We just need to make it known that we're here, we're just folks, we don't want to touch your children, and we just want to be treated like everyone else. Oh, and just because we wear skirts doesn't necessarily mean that we're out looking for men to have sex with us. We need to promote the concept of a gender spectrum.

[bridget thronton]

It would be nice if people did not judge each other period

[BRANDYJ]

the sheer volume of posts on this forum alone about going out en femme and the amount of support they receive seem to suggest that you might lose your dollar.

If you look at the membership count, take away the GG and TS members, add the daily lurkers that come here and read, it tips the the scale in favor of those that are happy or al least accepting that they will never be accepted going out in public. I'd up my bet to $1000.00 to $1.00 that I'm right.
A small vocal minority count of those here that go out without fear of humiliation, being laughed at, loss of job or family, and the attitude that they don't care what people think does not make a majority.
Don't get me wrong, I am happy for those that pass or blend and can go under the radar in 98% of the time. Hell, I even envy it. But I am a member of the majority that will not risk the reasons to stay out of the public's eye. I will also admit that I've seen some crossdressers out in public that even I have had to shake my head and chuckle to myself about how bad they looked and how easily a half blind person could read them. I will also admit that I have seen some that to this day I'm not sure what their birth gender is/was.
Sorry if my personal concern for my safety, self respect, opinions of others, including employer, and family is a very real concern that I'm never going to willingly give up.
Come to think about it, we have more members here that never post anything since they are so far back in the darkest closet that it far out ways those with a need to present in public dressed in female clothes. I support anyone's right to go out en fem. makes no difference if I think they pass, blend or look ridiculous, it's their right. Just as it is the right of our society to NOT accept it for whatever reasons, fears, and preconceived notions they have about a man in public en fem.
Like I said, those that go out in public are a minority. I'm glad we have them. I support their right. I might even envy some. I have a great deal of respect for some that do. Would love to know some as friends and spend a day with them. I'm not against it in any way. But all I ask is to be respected for being part of the majority that keeps it more secretive. I'm in the majority that keeps it private.

[STACY B]

I think Brandys RIGHT ,,, The ones that go out in public including ME aint right in the head to start with ,,,LOL,,,,, An thats why we do it ,, I will admit that this is far less embarressing than other stuff I have done in my life ,,,,,, Hey just being HONEST ,, I was always the CRAZY ONE !!

[ElleduSud]

I think it's a great idea. I know there is an international organization (in addition to 3S) which is trying to get out there. But they don't seem to get much financial or volunteer support from the CD community.

As a GG, I'm all for people being able to wear whatever they want. I think Tonixd's attitude is awesome!

I guess the problem is that there is a wide spectrum of CD behavior. And the portions of it which are sexual fetishism and autogynephilia are large enough to keep the taboo in place. The general public doesn't want to involuntarily participate in some strangers sexual activity. That's why there are laws against exhibitionism and voyeurism.

[Julogden]

Unlike the OP, I could care less for social acceptance from the masses. Further, I would bet my bottom dollar that I am in the majority on this.
Brandy,

Judging by posts here and in other forums, I'd suspect that you're quite wrong about you being in the majority. Most of us, including those who don't actively post would welcome acceptance or at least tolerance. And I also feel very strongly that, barring the whole world being taken over by religious fanatics (possible, not real likely though) open gender variant people will gradually become a normal, accepted part of daily life within the next 25 years. The changes for the better that I've seen in my life, mainly in the last 25 years or so have been huge.

Carol

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I think we could be overwhelmed by the taking on all of societies misconceptions and prejudices at one time. Maybe it would be easier to simply not let labels bother us and go about our lives. Look at your own life. As you have described it, you enjoy presenting a somewhat feminine style. And from what you've shared, it seems that co workers and family are pretty much OK with it. If some stranger makes an erroneous assumption about your sexuality, so what?

And as for meeting a female partner, there are a lot of women out there with a wide variety of tastes. I think you're offering "truth in packaging" by presenting as you are, rather than hiding your feminine side. If you're out there, friendly and self confident, I can almost guarantee that you will meet women you find you attractive as you are. The key is to have your life together and to be willing to put yourself out there...either in person through on line dating services, or both. You never know when that person will make eye contact or click on your profile. But when it happens, be yourself and things will work out. You don't have to change the whole world...just your part of it.

[Tracii G]

I do think if you want to put yourself out there then do so you need to make that decision no need to argue that point.
If you just be yourself the right woman will come along I promise you.Don't be pushy about it just be honest with her,she will tell you how she feels about it.
When I meet new people the guys run and the girls stay and talk I like it that way LOL.

[Nigella]

Rome was not built in a day.

There is no need for committees, out right marches demanding acceptance or any of that malarky. There are enough transgendered people out there, making a statement everyday, showing the population at large that we are not to be feared.

Going out, all guns blazing, is one sure fire way of having Joe Public digging their trenches deeper and laying a mine field just to be sure. Anything to keep those "wierdos" away from me.

If you want to make a difference, do like many others, JUST GET ON WITH IT.

[Persephone]

I'm with Nigella on this one.

It isn't about PR campaigns nor statements nor, as she put it so well, "any of that malarky."

What it is about is stepping up to the plate and doing rather than whining. The one making some folks behave like rabbits is themselves.

Look to Noeleena as a role model. She took on the challenge. And I believe in what she said, "You need to be an open book you need to be up front with people & be honest with people."

One of the hardest things I've ever done was to "come out" to my friends. But the bottom line? I may have lost one. The others aren't all necessarily thrilled about seeing me dressed, but they almost all asked the same question after I told them, "But we're still friends, right?"

I didn't ask them, they asked me!

I don't advocate that everyone follow that path. It isn't right for some and I respect those who prefer a more private lifestyle. But you don't need to think about "changing the world," you just need to change your corner of it.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Contessa]

Sarah27

I am here for you Hon. I will try to figure out what we (you and I) or any others who want to help can do to relieve the stigma of Crossdressing transexuals. If you have any certain Ideas already then Please PM me with them. I have some Idea and will discuss them you. I want to help all I can others like you and I. No there is nothing wrong with being gay but since we are not there is no need to bash any one who is different. I will continue to dress the way I feel.

Tess

[Eryn]

I tend to fit into the "just get on with it" group. I go out, but outside my working community. I present fairly well, but I'm certain that I leave a few suspicions behind me with those with whom I interact closely. I'm courteous, tip well, buy from the shops where I try things on, keep a good sense of humor, and otherwise try to be a good ambassador for whatever it is I am. Beyond that, I just have a good time because the is the entire reason for doing these crazy things!

Now, in my "guy" and working life I probably leak a bit. I keep my nails a bit long and clear-polished. I shave everything and wear Capris in the summer. I like colorful T-shirts. Some may, superficially, think that I'm gay, but that isn't the stigma that it used to be so it doesn't concern me. In fact, the perception is that gays have definite legal protection against harassment so I don't mind being mistaken for one.

I think that the future is with our youth, and I see quite a few of them blurring the gender lines quite openly. They are quite open and accepting. The only thing that could change this is the rise of groups that feel the right to impose their strict moral edicts on everyone. Fortunately, these groups are a danger to a very broad segment of society so they will be opposed.

[Kate Simmons]

I honestly don't care what they think of me or call me. As long as I still get paid.;):)

[Sophia Claire]

in my mind, it's not so much forcing the world to accept us as it is making the world a safe place for us to exist. Right now, we go to LGBT-friendly bars and clubs, or even towns that are LGBT-friendly. We live in shadows (not all of us, mind you) and at night like angsty sparkly vampires. We venture out into public. Few if any of us live in public full-time. Why? It may be a matter of choice, or it may be a matter of fear. The latter is unacceptable. We are the way we are and I shouldn't have to strap a knife to my thigh (gimme a break, have you ever tried to hide a gun in a pencil skirt?) when I go out in public just in case I need to defend myself. The numbers are out there and they are appalling. If there is an awareness program, I think its goal should be reducing the violence.

[kellycan27]

in my mind, it's not so much forcing the world to accept us as it is making the world a safe place for us to exist. Right now, we go to LGBT-friendly bars and clubs, or even towns that are LGBT-friendly. We live in shadows (not all of us, mind you) and at night like angsty sparkly vampires. We venture out into public. Few if any of us live in public full-time. Why? It may be a matter of choice, or it may be a matter of fear. The latter is unacceptable. We are the way we are and I shouldn't have to strap a knife to my thigh (gimme a break, have you ever tried to hide a gun in a pencil skirt?) when I go out in public just in case I need to defend myself. The numbers are out there and they are appalling. If there is an awareness program, I think its goal should be reducing the violence.

Laws are designed for law abiding people, just as padlocks are meant to keep honest people out. So if you or anyone else is waiting for some kind of TG utopia.. good luck.

[Sophia Claire]

Laws are designed for law abiding people, just as padlocks are meant to keep honest people out. So if you or anyone else is waiting for some kind of TG utopia.. good luck.

First off, I really like your pic. Very pretty.

Not being automatically labeled as gay, not being afraid to be out in public, not having to worry about being the victim (any more than average people) is a pretty far cry from Utopia. And while you are correct that laws are for law abiding people, we have a place far away from law abiding people where we can send those who don't. And the research indicates that there are a lot of people who should be in jail that aren't. No one is asking for paradise, we just want to be better understood. We don't require people to like us, but I don't think it's too much to ask that we're accepted.

Incidentally, padlocks only keep lazy people out. I'm honest, but I've broken more padlocks in my time than I know what to do with ;)

[Amy Fakley]

you got your awareness program already: google.

Seriously. If I'd had google growing up, I'd have had a universe of knowledge about what I was going through ... and by extension so would my parents, and my siblings and my teachers, etc, etc. My life, and the lives of everyone who knew me would have been radically altered (for the better). This is happening already, for nearly every TG kid with access to a computer and the internet ... all on it's own.

Visibility campaigns, etc often backfire ... people don't like having uncomfortable things shoved in their faces, and to cis-folk who've never thought twice about their gender, I'd imagine we're a pretty uncomfortable topic.

I'll frame this next statement, by admitting I'm not out to anyone in the real world, and I've never left my house dressed, so I've never been "out there", but the very last thing on my list of things that frighten the bajesus out of me is being mistaken for gay. Why does that bother you guys so much?

There just aren't that many of us in the world, to the uninitiated "everyone that's not straight is gay" ... no biggie. If they ask, correct them and be glad that you live in a society where they didn't try to stone you! :)

[Sophia Claire]

There just aren't that many of us in the world, to the uninitiated "everyone that's not straight is gay" ... no biggie. If they ask, correct them and be glad that you live in a society where they didn't try to stone you! :)

no, instead we're beaten, set on fire, stabbed, shot, raped, and all that typically more than once per individual among respondents in a 2009 study. And for what? Being "confused?" You're right, visibility campaigns can be tricky, and do backfire sometimes, but to me the numbers are too appalling to just do nothing. BTW, many of the respondents also identify their gender expression (which in the outmoded terms that the perpetrators tend to think in means gay because it's not straight) as the perceived motivation for their assault.

Google is great, but you have to be looking for something specific for Google to work. There's no "random article" button on Google, even though that would be awesome.

[kellycan27]

First off, I really like your pic. Very pretty.

Not being automatically labeled as gay, not being afraid to be out in public, not having to worry about being the victim (any more than average people) is a pretty far cry from Utopia. And while you are correct that laws are for law abiding people, we have a place far away from law abiding people where we can send those who don't. And the research indicates that there are a lot of people who should be in jail that aren't. No one is asking for paradise, we just want to be better understood. We don't require people to like us, but I don't think it's too much to ask that we're accepted.

Incidentally, padlocks only keep lazy people out. I'm honest, but I've broken more padlocks in my time than I know what to do with ;)

Just like laws your "awarness programs" might reach some people, but they're probably the ones who wouldn't harm you to begin with. Personally if someone wants to think I am gay..it's their preoperative, and is of no consequence to me. Anyone that matters can simply be informed to the contrary if one thinks that an explanation is required. Sticks and stones...... How many times have i seen the "I am not gay" disclaimer right here on these boards? Do some of us view being gay in the same light that the GP view cross dressers?

And.... Thank you for the lovely compliment.

[Amy Fakley]

no, instead we're beaten, set on fire, stabbed, shot, raped, and all that typically more than once per individual among respondents in a 2009 study.

you make a good point.
until everyone is safe, no one is safe.

still don't really care if they think I'm gay though ... "whatevz!", as my kids say :)

[TeresaL]

I think it's a great idea. I know there is an international organization (in addition to 3S) which is trying to get out there. But they don't seem to get much financial or volunteer support from the CD community.

As a GG, I'm all for people being able to wear whatever they want. I think Tonixd's attitude is awesome!

I guess the problem is that there is a wide spectrum of CD behavior. And the portions of it which are sexual fetishism and autogynephilia are large enough to keep the taboo in place. The general public doesn't want to involuntarily participate in some strangers sexual activity. That's why there are laws against exhibitionism and voyeurism.
Yes, yes, yes! IMO, we should be able to go out, pass or not. If we pass, and sometimes I think I do, then it's gravy for us. If we do not pass, then we should have acceptance for being the third gender. In either regards, it would be nice if society would say "it's ok to be different."



I honestly don't care what they think of me or call me. As long as I still get paid.;):)

Amen to that. LOL

[Sophia Claire]

Just like laws your "awarness programs" might reach some people, but they're probably the ones who wouldn't harm you to begin with. Personally if someone wants to think I am gay..it's their preoperative, and is of no consequence to me. Anyone that matters can simply be informed to the contrary if one thinks that an explanation is required. Sticks and stones...... How many times have i seen the "I am not gay" disclaimer right here on these boards? Do some of us view being gay in the same light that the GP view cross dressers?

And.... Thank you for the lovely compliment.

What you say about the awareness programs is true. But it's worked out pretty well for the homosexual community. it was a long, hard fight, but they're now recognized in the most conservative organization in the country, the military.

You make a very interesting point about the "not gay" disclaimer here. Here's a twist: if gender identity is the relevant factor, is your drab side straight or your femme side gay? The issue of gay or straight is hardly worth fighting over anymore because the gays have made it less important (which is the goal). Personally, I think that it's knee-jerk reflex to make the disclaimer. We do this in our jobs and in our social circles (some of us, anyway) and so we assume that it's worth mentioning here.

and you're quite welcome.

[whowhatwhen]

Solution: Start teaching in schools that it's okay if you're gay, bi, or trans and that it's not okay to harm those who are different than you.

Problem: People love dead gay people, anything else is violating their right to freedom of speech/religion/whatever it is that day.

[kellycan27]

What you say about the awareness programs is true. But it's worked out pretty well for the homosexual community. it was a long, hard fight, but they're now recognized in the most conservative organization in the country, the military.

You make a very interesting point about the "not gay" disclaimer here. Here's a twist: if gender identity is the relevant factor, is your drab side straight or your femme side gay? The issue of gay or straight is hardly worth fighting over anymore because the gays have made it less important (which is the goal). Personally, I think that it's instinctive to make the disclaimer. We do this in our jobs and in our social circles (some of us, anyway) and so we assume that it's worth mentioning here.

I didn't see mention of gender identity, but "If" it were relevant I am sure most would say that my drab side was gay and my fem side str8 since I am a m2f postie, married to a heterosexual man. You did mention " people automatically assuming that cd'ers are gay". Personally I have never felt the need to express my sexual preference in my social circles or at my job as a rule of thumb. If someone asked I might be inclined to answer,and then I might not. ( it would depend on why.. if they were interested in me for example) Sexual preference is not an issue with me, and people are free to assume whatever they wish in regards to me.

I am no way saying that a program or programs of this nature wouldn't be a good thing, but rather saying That if people are waiting for this to happen, and if they think that it's' going to put an end to the violence that you speak of.. they're going to be waiting a long time, and they might be setting themselves up with a false sense of security.

[Marleena]

IDK there are programs starting for the kids in schools to teach tolerance for TG's. You won't find many people here willing to participate in the program you mention because I believe most members here do their thing in private. The ones that do go out dressed don't seem to have any big issues either. The LGBT groups are working for us to a degree and you can always find and join a proactive TG group.

That said I'm to the point now that if I'm read and they think I'm gay I just hope they think I'm a pretty, gay boy.:) If they ask I'll tell them my sexual persuasion but who knows if they'll believe me anyways.

[Lainie]

Sarah27,
It says you're a new member, & a lot of us had similar ideas when we were new.
But really, how does anyone hook up with anyone? You stay open, be yourself, express interest in other people. Almost everyone won't be a partner or a love interest. A lot will just not be what you're looking for. But you're special, and you want someone who gets it. When you find her, she'll want to prove to you that you aren't gay, so just let her!

[dsmth]

I would just like to say that I agree with Sarah27's concern. When someone is willing to single themselves out from the herd (and so make themselves a relative target for the least informed) for what they believe in, enjoy, think is right, fair, wonderful, and true to themselves, it would be nice if the very first step of that honesty wasn't inseparable from an immediate misunderstanding from most everyone around them.

[ReineD]

I'm with the "get on with it" group, IF (that's a capital, underlined IF) you live in a community that is tolerant and even then, the tolerance will exist from strangers but there is still a high risk of divorce, job loss, and being ostracized from some friends and family members. And unfortunately, many people live in small conservative towns where they will be easily recognized, judged, and ostracized even further, and in some areas even beaten up or killed. And in many parts of the world (Middle East and possibly some parts of Asia & India) a man would be severely punished for appearing in public dressed as a woman.

As much as we have a highly supportive and well-populated member base here which may seem as if the CDing is widespread, and as much as some of our members have been successful at going out in public (my SO is in these numbers), I just don't think it is the norm when you compare those who are out to the total numbers of CDers, and the ratio is minuscule compared to the population at large.

[dsmth]

Hence the need for an awareness campaign don't you think? How best might this be achieved though? Let's strategize, people!

[ReineD]

Oops, yes, the awareness program.

It is best done in schools. We need to teach our young the facts about gender and sexual variance. But, we have strong religious groups in Canada and the US who will oppose this. Still, we have to start somewhere and there are gender/sexual advocacy groups who are fighting for educational and legal reform. Maybe you could be proactive, contact these groups and join the fight in a concrete way. :)

http://www.hrc.org/

[Voulez-Vous]

We need to stand up as girls and women, with our girlfriends and wives and fight and show the world that everyone that has a little nail polish or plucked eyebrows are not homosexual.

Right. Good luck with that.

[kellycan27]

What you say about the awareness programs is true. But it's worked out pretty well for the homosexual community.

yes it did work out for the gays rather well, but they were a lot more together. The TG community is much more diverse. we have the closeted types who are too afraid to be seen or to speak out, we have the weekend warriors who couldn't care less as long as they can do their part time thing, who would like the benefits, but don't see them as necessary. We also have the " I can't let this be discovered".. I have a job, friends, and family to worry about. And we have the just don't cares, and let's not forget the ones who don't want to be aligned or associated with some others who are in the group. We have no solidarity, no cohesiveness, and no concerted effort.

[Marleena]

yes it did work out for the gays rather well, but they were a lot more together. The TG community is much more diverse. we have the closeted types who are too afraid to be seen or to speak out, we have the weekend warriors who couldn't care less as long as they can do their part time thing, who would like the benefits, but don't see them as necessary. We also have the " I can't let this be discovered".. I have a job, friends, and family to worry about. And we have the just don't cares, and let's not forget the ones who don't want to be aligned or associated with some others who are in the group. We have no solidarity, no cohesiveness, and no concerted effort.

Kelly nailed it here.:)

Members that are interested are better off joining a recognized support group and giving them these ideas. Trying to get it started here would be Mission Impossible.:D

[Sophia Claire]

Mission impossible is what I do. Yoda (and my dad) said "no! Try not! There is no trying. Do or do not." it's not a lost cause until you believe it is. There are at least two or the people here who are willing to fight for the same idea, and that's a start.

[Voulez-Vous]

We have no solidarity, no cohesiveness, and no concerted effort.

Words of wisdom. There is no "community". That's why threads like this are utterly pointless.

[dsmth]

I would surely hope that there are far more than only two people that would agree. If there really are only two then I think I would be very sad!

[michelle64]

i agree with brandy...i could care less about acceptance..how many times have i alluded to the "t" in "glb" and the problem it caused..i also agree 99% of us can not pass and look like a dude in a dress which immediately illicits a laugh..heck i have seen other cd's in the mall who i wanted to just tell them to go back home as you are best served by staying in the house and dressing in front of the wife..its rare for the cd to be able to pass and many here need to realize this.no law or other is going to make you accepted (lost cause)...if you need an example look at the recent attack against chick-fil-a and the response in return..just how i feel

[Voulez-Vous]

heck I have seen other cd's in the mall who I wanted to just tell them to go back home as you are best served by staying in the house and dressing in front of the wife

Truer words have never been spoken on this forum.

[whowhatwhen]

i agree with brandy...i could care less about acceptance..how many times have i alluded to the "t" in "glb" and the problem it caused..i also agree 99% of us can not pass and look like a dude in a dress which immediately illicits a laugh..heck i have seen other cd's in the mall who i wanted to just tell them to go back home as you are best served by staying in the house and dressing in front of the wife..its rare for the cd to be able to pass and many here need to realize this.no law or other is going to make you accepted (lost cause)...if you need an example look at the recent attack against chick-fil-a and the response in return..just how i feel

This is going to sound extremely hypocritical coming from me, but here goes.
That is terrible advice.

Those CDs at the mall?
They have balls. They have balls so big that they won't let other people force them to live by someone else's terms.

All talk and no action isn't good, but come on resigned apathy is a thousand times worse.
Why not go back in time and tell gay people to stay in hiding while we're at it.

I truly admire those who have the guts to go out in a society that at best doesn't understand and at worst hates.
One day I will be as strong as them.

[ReineD]

To Voulez-Vous, michelle64, and others who feel that all CDers should stay closeted ... that's fine for those who are happy with dressing in private. I agree there are many CDers who feel the way you do for a variety of reasons: they don't have any gender dysphoria, or they don't have a hope of blending in due to their age/size/features/etc, or the CDing is just something they do privately for fun or fetish whether this is mild or more pronounced.

BUT .. please remember there are other CDers (like my SO) for whom a feminine gender expression is a part of who she is even though she has no desire to be full time or alter his body in any way, and it hurts to go out there and not be accepted. My SO does not dress in a fetish manner (short skirts, stilettos, etc), she has no beard shadow (laser beard removal), she has her own long hair (no wig), her own long nails (not the 2 inch glitter red press-ons), but still some people are adept at reading the more subtle gender cues (face width, profile, etc), and she is read especially when she speaks in her soft voice.

The people that we interact with for the most part are accepting and they're polite, but it would be VERY nice if we could do without the occasional dirty look, or sneer, or blank stare. And I think this could be improved over time if we had a more comprehensive gender and sexual curriculum in our schools.

To condemn all CDers who don't look 100% like GGs for needing to interact with others as their demure and mainstream looking feminine selves is, I believe, being insensitive to the needs of a substantial number of CDers who have no wish to transition yet who are not happy in their closets.

We can't just pigeon-hole everyone into just one small box.

[kellycan27]

Mission impossible is what I do. Yoda (and my dad) said "no! Try not! There is no trying. Do or do not." it's not a lost cause until you believe it is. There are at least two or the people here who are willing to fight for the same idea, and that's a start.


I think that the cart is being put before the horse.. before you can get the GP behind you.. you have an even more daunting task of getting your TG sisters behind you. That in my opinion is where you need to start, and that my friend is going to be a task of monumental proportions... or so it seems. Maybe you could start by handing out copies of "The Little Red Hen". Start at the elementary level and move up from there. :heehee:

Kel

[Marleena]

Oh boy now we go to deciding some people don't pass and shouldn't go out in public?:doh:

[Voulez-Vous]

The people that we interact with for the most part are accepting and they're polite, but it would be VERY nice if we could do without the occasional dirty look, or sneer, or blank stare. And I think this could be improved over time if we had a more comprehensive gender and sexual curriculum in our schools.

To condemn all CDers who don't look 100% like GGs for needing to interact with others as their demure and mainstream looking feminine selves is, I believe, being insensitive to the needs of a substantial number of CDers who have no wish to transition yet who are not happy in their closets.

“needing to interact with others as their demure and mainstream looking feminine selves” ???
Sorry, but I believe that’s all just a fantasy in the mind of the individual. It’s way past time for a reality check for a lot of people. If you want to “interact” be prepared to accept the consequences of your action. No amount of education or “awareness program” will ever change that. I’m not saying stay in the closet…I’m just saying if you can’t blend and pass 100% and want to be in public…be prepared to be stared at, mocked, or worse. In other words - “if you can’t stand the heat - stay out of the kitchen”. It’s very simple.

[Marleena]

“needing to interact with others as their demure and mainstream looking feminine selves” ???
Sorry, but I believe that’s all just a fantasy in the mind of the individual. It’s way past time for a reality check for a lot of people. If you want to “interact” be prepared to accept the consequences of your action. No amount of education or “awareness program” will ever change that. I’m not saying stay in the closet…I’m just saying if you can’t blend and pass 100% and want to be in public…be prepared to be stared at, mocked, or worse. In other words - “if you can’t stand the heat - stay out of the kitchen”. It’s very simple.

Who is going to be in charge of the "no you don't pass team" then? 100% is an awful lofty goal to reach. Any of the MTF's that go out know what they're getting into I would think.

[ReluctantDebutant]

I love the United States and its freedom of expression. Now I am not not going to say some stupid expression like "for better or worse" because freedom of expression is always for the better. The same freedom that allows Crossdressers to go out in public is the same one that allows others to give them those sneers and snide remarks. It is just the price that is paid.

Sure we could lower that cost by hate speech laws and the re-education of childeren. But in the end that price makes the national debt look like a sale at the Dollar Store.

[whowhatwhen]

Sure we could lower that cost by hate speech laws and the re-education of childeren. But in the end that price makes the national debt look like a sale at the Dollar Store.

Those are both good things that would improve the quality of life for so many people, totally worth it IMHO.
Not that we don't have people fighting against education up here...

[ReineD]

“needing to interact with others as their demure and mainstream looking feminine selves” ???
Sorry, but I believe that’s all just a fantasy in the mind of the individual.

LOL.

You are limiting yourself by your own experience. I've no idea what you look like, but there are birth males who don't look like John Wayne. They don't all have the big square chins, the Frankenstein foreheads, the 17" necks, and knuckles that drag down to their knees. :p

I draw people and so I observe them often. If you go to any public place and observe groups of guys sitting together, you will easily see some who have a much stronger macho appearances than others. And some whom you could put a wig on and trim their eyebrows, and they'll be rather presentable as a female. They'll not be taken as a GG by astute observers especially when there is a one-on-one interaction, but the look will be rather believable to someone who is preoccupied with his own affairs and not really paying attention to the person who walks by or who is sitting in the same restaurant.

My SO and I are both in our 50s. We go out A LOT and most people don't give us a second look. They're too busy with their own concerns. We've gotten to know the coffee shop, bookstore, restaurant, & clothing shop owners whose businesses we patronize regularly though, and some of the patrons who are also there regularly, and they've gotten to know my SO. They know after talking to us that she is not a GG but they seem to accept that she is who she is, however they define it to themselves. My SO is a very nice person, interesting to talk to, has a sense a humor and is very personable, and we've found that people pay more attention to THAT than any discomfort they may initially experience over the knowledge (or the doubt) that she may be a male bodied person in a dress. I rather think that they believe my SO to be transsexual even though she is not. The biggest issues I have as stated earlier, are the few people who do notice from afar and because they haven't spoken to my SO, they're still (some of them) in that "judging" space in their own heads.

Anyway, my SO was in her mid-40s before she even attempted to go out and like you, she NEVER thought that she would ever be able to go out and not be lynched. lol It took getting out there and actually doing it, for her to believe otherwise. :)

She is no longer consumed with fear. But at the same time, she understands those who are not ready to do what she did. She doesn't judge anyone. :hugs:

[michelle64]

I go out a-lot..been just about everywhere except flying and i have no desire to fly with femme attire..i do not like planes so its a no go..there is no doubt the cd group is so splintered on so many issues (some issues i agree and many i personally do not) getting your brain around it would be nothing but a headache..some guys can dress as women (rare) and some-well not so much (the norm)..

ps: just look at the wars here over-fire bang items, passing, glb stuff, acceptance, political parties..etc..even the members here find agreeing at times difficult

[Voulez-Vous]

Who is going to be in charge of the "no you don't pass team" then? 100% is an awful lofty goal to reach. Any of the MTF's that go out know what they're getting into I would think.

I don't think anyone has to be in charge of any team. All it really takes is an honest look in the mirror and the desire to not lie to yourself and others. If you can’t blend in and pass, and yet still want to go out, you then agree to accept what comes your way, whatever that may be. Fair enough?

[Marleena]

I don't think anyone has to be in charge of any team. All it really takes is an honest look in the mirror and the desire to not lie to yourself and others. If you can’t blend in and pass, and yet still want to go out, you then agree to accept what comes your way, whatever that may be. Fair enough?

Well you yourself said many that are out there shouldn't be. Think about this if everybody passed 100% what would be the point of being out there? Nobody would notice us. Make sense?

[Rachel Morley]

All I want to say is that I agree 200% with Renie's #48 post. Everything I was going to say is already in there ... that's EXACTLY how it is from where I'm coming from. How she describes her SO is very much how I feel about myself.

[michelle64]

I don't think anyone has to be in charge of any team. All it really takes is an honest look in the mirror and the desire to not lie to yourself and others. If you can’t blend in and pass, and yet still want to go out, you then agree to accept what comes your way, whatever that may be. Fair enough?

yes..and that is part of the forcing of ideals, ideology on others..even as a CD i sorta resent the activism of being forced feed to accept certain aspects of the cd community..do i smirk every so slightly when i see a guy in a dress in the mall sporting a beard-you bet i do..this writer is spot on when he/she mentions the crux of many a cd's problem..they lie to themselves and others..just how i feel

ps: if i have/had a beard while dressed i would fully expect (and it would be deserved) to be laughed at..same reason i dont wear 6 inch pole dancer stilletos while out..sorry but thats the truth of the matter

[ReineD]

do i smirk every so slightly when i see a guy in a dress in the mall sporting a beard-you bet i do..

You make it sound as if this is the "normal" look for the CDers who choose to go out in the mainstream. It isn't.

And why would you smirk? You should know better. :kickbutt: :)

[Voulez-Vous]

And why would you smirk? You should know better.

Know better than what? Are you honestly saying you think someone with a beard wearing a dress shouldn't expect a negative reaction from others? Even others on this forum? If you truly believe this, you're only kidding yourself.

[michelle64]

You make it sound as if this is the "normal" look for the CDers who choose to go out in the mainstream. It isn't.

And why would you smirk? You should know better. :kickbutt: :)

your probably right..and yes i should know better..but a guy in a dress with a beard is just funny..in a monte python sorta way i guess..whats the answer-i do not know..trying to get my head wrapped around it as i never went out (still dont) in such a dress manner..guess short guy with butt and hips (like me) makes the cd life simpler..

[PretzelGirl]

Pass or be condemned. What a thought. Can we have a more negative view of the world? Yes, there can be bad things that happen to us. That is normally a by-product of going to the wrong places and/or the wrong times. And yes I realize that isn't a all-encompassing, 100% accurate statement. Probably because there is no such statement in our world.

You don't have to pass to be accepted in this world. The biggest thing on your side is a positive attitude not looks. Yes, I know people have shot this down before. But if you carry yourself well, people will be less likely to care. Were the most popular 20 people in school the 20 best looking? Not likely.

If you have a negative attitude in life you get negative results.

[ReineD]

Know better than what? Are you honestly saying you think someone with a beard wearing a dress shouldn't expect a negative reaction from others? Even others on this forum? If you truly believe this, you're only kidding yourself.

Voulez-vous, really, unless you've spent years going out in the mainstream like my SO and the others here, do you really think you are qualified to tell us what we actually experience? :)

I can understand your attitudes if you live in some ultra-conservative small town full of people who beat up homosexuals on a regular basis. But if this is the case, you can hardly know what it's like for those of us who have more freedom.

Also, my SO did make a wonderful discovery during the first few years when she was first going out. She realized that when she walks in a mall and she hears people laughing, they're not necessarily laughing at her! lol. In other words, she is NOT the center of everyone's universe. Her male socialization and the resulting insecurities about being perceived as a male in a dress were so severe that she finally did realize that her perceptions of most people's attitudes truly had been skewed. I really think that you're in that place now and you are within your full rights to choose to not go out. But, you are wrong to regurgitate your own perceptions onto everyone else.

Do people know that my SO is not a genetic female when they talk to her? Yes. Do they shun her or abuse her in any way? No. In fact, some have become friends.

:hugs:

[Sara Jessica]

Oh this is fun stuff...


i agree with brandy...i could care less about acceptance..how many times have i alluded to the "t" in "glb" and the problem it caused..i also agree 99% of us can not pass and look like a dude in a dress which immediately illicits a laugh..heck i have seen other cd's in the mall who i wanted to just tell them to go back home as you are best served by staying in the house and dressing in front of the wife..its rare for the cd to be able to pass and many here need to realize this.no law or other is going to make you accepted (lost cause)...if you need an example look at the recent attack against chick-fil-a and the response in return..just how i feel

Ummmm....


Truer words have never been spoken on this forum.

No, this is not the truth you are looking for.

I choose to go out.

I have a level of fulfillment in doing so that the two of you could only dream of.

Yet I expect that I am read as TG by anyone who encounters me. Ya know what? Lowering one's expectations takes away from the stress of passing.


Oh boy now we go to deciding some people don't pass and shouldn't go out in public?:doh:

Yep, apparently that is the case. In TS circles it's known as passing privilege. Right on Marleena!!!

I don't pass. M & VV, tell me I cannot go out. I will respond with a resounding "to heck with your opinion" and expand on the richness of life that is there to be had by all who choose to take such steps.

I understand the rationale behind decisions to stay behind closed doors and shuttered windows. Heck, I'm not all that out given the fact I typically keep some distance between my homeworld and outing destinations. But for all of the horror stories (or is that simply citation of fears?) about what COULD happen when one goes out, I'm here to say that this simply isn't the case. Taking care of one's safety, the world can be a very wonderful and accepting place.

I am the leader of my own awareness program. Even if only for one person at a time, I know I am helping to pave a positive road for those who come after me. And most importantly, I hope I do justice for those who come after me who are full time in presentation. Whether or not I pass is not particularly relevant to the big picture. In fact, it may enhance the effect.

[Rachel Morley]

Voulez-vous, really, unless you've spent years going out in the mainstream like my SO and the others here, do you really think you are qualified to tell us what we actually experience?


I really think that you're in that place now and you are within your full rights to choose to not go out. But, you are wrong to regurgitate your own perceptions onto everyone else.

Hear! Hear! .... on both counts!

[Voulez-Vous]

Voulez-vous, really, unless you've spent years going out in the mainstream like my SO and the others here, do you really think you are qualified to tell us what we actually experience? :)

I can understand your attitudes if you live in some ultra-conservative small town full of people who beat up homosexuals on a regular basis. But if this is the case, you can hardly know what it's like for those of us who have more freedom.

Also, my SO did make a wonderful discovery during the first few years when she was first going out. She realized that when she walks in a mall and she hears people laughing, they're not necessarily laughing at her! lol. In other words, she is NOT the center of everyone's universe. Her male socialization and the resulting insecurities about being perceived as a male in a dress were so severe that she finally did realize that her perceptions of most people's attitudes truly had been skewed. I really think that you're in that place now and you are within your full rights to choose to not go out. But, you are wrong to regurgitate your own perceptions onto everyone else.

Do people know that my SO is not a genetic female when they talk to her? Yes. Do they shun her or abuse her in any way? No. In fact, some have become friends.


First off, I didn’t know we were specifically discussing the experiences of just you and your SO here? I’m glad that you and your SO live in an area that is so liberal and accepting. Unfortunately, it’s simply not that way for everyone.
There are obviously exceptions to every situation, but for the most part if you can’t blend and “pass” …when and if you get a response from people, it will most likely be negative. Go ahead and call that a negative outlook if you wish, but it’s realistic. And let’s be clear here…I’m not “regurgitating” my own perceptions onto anyone else here. I’m simply saying there isn’t an awareness group, etc. on earth that will change a damn thing in this case. When people say they want to teach society to accept what they do as normal, that will never happen. Accept responsibility for what you do - don’t expect acceptance.

[whowhatwhen]

I’m simply saying there isn’t an awareness group, etc. on earth that will change a damn thing in this case. When people say they want to teach society to accept what they do as normal, that will never happen. Accept responsibility for what you do - don’t expect acceptance.

Again with the apathy?
I know it looks bleak but I imagine (since I wasn't alive) that gay people back in the day felt the same way.

They are still fighting now and it's taking a long-ass time but they're actually making headway instead of taking a "can't change anything" attitude.
It's going to be the same way with transgender people.

The fact that we're even discussing that by simply existing and living your life you should expect and accept bigotry is an absolute mindf*** to me.
Progressive != Apathetic

[ReineD]

*sigh* I give up.

Also, perhaps my use of the term "regurgitate" was too strong and I apologize for using it. I should have used "impose".

Anyway, you see your own world through your own eyes, and as stated earlier you have every right to do this for yourself. But, you are not in a position to get into other people's heads and tell them that they are deluding themselves when they enjoy going out, after they tell you that their experiences are relaxed and enjoyable, even when they are read. Sorry, Voulez-Vous, but the world is larger than you think. :)

[Voulez-Vous]

*sigh* I give up.

Also, perhaps my use of the term "regurgitate" was too strong and I apologize for using it. I should have used "impose".

Anyway, you see your own world through your own eyes, and as stated earlier you have every right to do this for yourself. But, you are not in a position to get into other people's heads and tell them that they are deluding themselves when they enjoy going out, after they tell you that their experiences are relaxed and enjoyable, even when they are read. Sorry, Voulez-Vous, but the world is larger than you think. :)

No need for any type of apology. We were having an adult discussion.
Adults can agree to disagree...yes, even on this forum.
And there you have it.

[TeresaL]

I think some of us retired engineers could develop a product to help all the CDs who aren't sure about theirselves when they are ready to go out. Yep, we could design a passometer.

As we procede in this project, we can implement some great features Like maybe a snicker shield for hiding long beards. Or a feature that would let us know if we look like a dude in a dress. It could also let us know to put on shorts or capris. A pink fog emitter could be helpful in some way also.

A rear view would also be helpful for those times when you are out and no one is noticing you. Ya know what I mean? Everyone seems to go about their business, and you can just stand right across the clothes rack two feet away, staring at these people, and don't get noticed. Are they just being nice or what? The passometer will tell us!

But the best part is that people will accept us for what we are, whatever that is, be it TV, TG, TS, CD, LGBTQ, or NRA. But no talk about guns please, I'm trying to get mine smaller since I spent too much time in the gymn, especially the biceps.

We will get more input as the drawings for the prototype get further along. Assignments need to be worked out, and a project timeline needs to be set.

But I'm getting ahead of myself, and am somewhat delirious since it is 4:00 in the morning, and I haven't gone off to bed yet. :D

[noeleena]

Hi,

I know this applys to manly dresser's & can be used for trans people, gee im just glad im a bloody woman who does not pass , blend in my facial features are ..... male...... end of the matter that's it. yet i can go any where in New Zealand or Austraila or Thailand & im accepted,

i dont wear a wig damm all makeup just my normal womens day wear, neckless earings my head wear a winter covering or my colourfull scarves, i stand out im looked at im allso well knownyet i dont have any issues because im accepted for who i am. im involved with 1000' of people both those who know me & many who'v never met me ,

Have i missed the point of all this, so because i dont pass or blend in i should stay a bloody hermit a recluse & hide away just because i damm well dont fit the profile of ....some .... who think i dont look right or people say oh dear he's a male dressed in womans clothes parading around , got news for you's,

im a female who was born different & i dont fit the normal female profile iv parts missing so im a freak of nature , tough
I v weathered the storm a few times been to ....HELL....& back ,

& im still here to tell my story youv never walked in my shoes male or female's so dont you think i should be given the chance to at least try to be a woman & be accepted, theres quite a few 100 of us who are in the same boat yet we live life we have friends & i mean .....REAL.....friends,

I wear clothes that are designed on what was worn over 500 years ago down our streets im looked at & not in a strange way as though im a nutcase or mad . its as one who can & does enjoy her self being who she is & walk among our people & am accepted just the same,

& as my ? to yous here .....who would be willing to .....come ..... with me & walk where i go. & meet with those i meet freely & spend the day with some one who is .....different.....

...noeleena...

[TeresaL]

Good for you Noeleena. Reading all this just kinda makes me wanna go out too. Have you ever noticed that quite a few ordinary women have manly features? I'm only saying that because maybe we can blend.

But for those who don't even blend, maybe the third gender or twin spirit could catch on and make us all acceptable to JQ public. We shouldn't have to stay at home if we don't wanna. Except if we have boundaries -- and even then, we should have a day of amnesty some time for good behavior??? Can't we have rights too? I wanna rights. It's too doggone close to being discrimination when a girl can't go out. Doesn't matter that she looks like. I've got hazel eyes for cryin out loud. Please world, don't judge me for my eye color. Why then world are you judging me and my sisters?

[PretzelGirl]

First off, I didn’t know we were specifically discussing the experiences of just you and your SO here? I’m glad that you and your SO live in an area that is so liberal and accepting. Unfortunately, it’s simply not that way for everyone.

First, it is obvious that your glass is half empty. And I'm sorry that you have to feel that way. But please don't color it realistic as it may be realistic for you (reality is a perception), but not for many others.

I get out all the time. Do you want to call my area liberal? I think most everyone would disagree. And yet I have no bad experiences. I am certainly here to tell you, I sure don't pass. But I do the best with what I have, I have a positive attitude, I put on a smile because I am having a good time, and I go forth and treat people well and engage them. When you aren't acting like you are doing something wrong, people don't treat you like you are doing something wrong.

And ultimately I would think that those that are doing something successfully might have a leg up on those that think they can't do it successfully.

But so I don't get called out, that doesn't mean that those that want to stay home can't. More power to them. It is about each individual being happy in their own way.