Do you think pretty T-girls make men question their own sexuality?

[Marleena]

First of all I hope nobody finds the term T-girls offensive. We have some very pretty members here that can attract male attention. We know men are very visual. They see a hot girl and they get turned on.

Now what if they are attracted to a TG girl only to find out she isn't a GG? I'm sure some must go wtf and get angry for not realizing they are not a GG. Is it a dangerous thing?

*clarification*

I'm talking about TG girls that pass until closeup.Your thoughts? I have no idea myself.


The CD amirers are different since they are attacted to the TG girls in the first place.


Oh and why are Cd admirers attracted to TG girls? Is it the femininity, or do they think easy sex score?

[Tabitha Storm]

I think so. I have always considered myself to be straight but when I see a beautiful transgender or cd I am attracted to them. I don't think there is anything wrong with being attracted to beauty no matter it be male or female. I guess I would consider myself femisexual, attracted to those in feminine form.

[Janelle_C]

I also thinks it does. If it didn't way would they care how someone decides to dress. People that are very comfortable in there own skin and with there selfs seem to be much more excepting of different life styles. Hugs Janelle

[STACY B]

Your attracted to the PACKAGE not the contents ,,, OK,,,,,,,,,, You asked for my own STACY B Analogy ,,, If there was 1968 Camaro at a car show an it was Fine as Wine ,, Tricked out shinned up ,,Killer paint job ,, Would you care what kind of engine it had in it ? Cuz it looks great ! But you know dam good an well yull never drive it ! Now if you thought that you had a chance to drive it now you would want to know what under the hood ! So the same goes for your question when they look its only a Fantasy ,,, They can only get into trouble unless they take HER for a RIDE !! But they can dream all they want .....

[kimdl93]

I think one of the great obstacles to being accepted as a transgendered person is that some males do find thier own sexuality challenged. It seems that some men worry that they might be gay, and some men worry that they might really like being women. Certainly, it can be disconcerting for some men to feel a sexual attraction to a person, only to realize that the person is genetically male.

Admirers are probably a different issue. They may be gay or bi and find that a T-girl allows them to express that aspect of their sexuality while maintaining the facade of being straight.

[Barbara Ella]

Face it men are visual. First impression of a pretty girl, GG or not, and they are hot to trot. After getting to know the person, their mind finally gets into gear, and they get to know what is under the hood, they see that their thought process, and their physical reaction process are on different pages. It will take a lot of thinking, maybe therapy, to sort out the feelings, depending on the depth of the attraction.


Now to pose a similar thought question. If a T-girl is attracted to another T-Girl, what side (male or female) questions their sexuality?

Barbara

[whowhatwhen]

A large amount of the population has horrible, outdated, and plain wrong ideas about what it means to be gay or bisexual.
In a healthy, tolerant society this wouldn't be an issue since everyone would know that being gay or bi means being physically/emotionally attracted to the same sex and nothing more.

Ideally, if a man were to find out that a woman was born male and he for some reason had a problem with it, he would politely decline going further and move on.
Instead, some turn to violence - to prove his straightness I suppose?

This isn't likely to change any time soon.
You can shout your own personal experience with sexual orientation and gender identity until you're blue in the face but some people will just plug their ears and go back to their opinions given to them by talk radio hosts and F list "comedians".
It's ironic/tragic how you find such attitudes HERE, OF ALL PLACES towards something you'd think they'd be more understanding/sympathetic about.

Just look at the Chick-Fil-A thread and tell me we're not totally boned.

[mykhelee]

One of my best friends over the past 20 years was what I thought was an avowed heterosexual...until I let him know I cross dressed....I was offended and strangely happy when he propositioned me.

[Persephone]

Isn't this the basis of the 1982 Blake Edwards movie Victor Victoria (click here for info) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084865/)? Although she is a woman faking being a crossdressing man, King Marchand (James Garner), a decided womanizer, is very distressed by his romantic feelings for someone he believes is a man.

Of course, the all time best ending to a crossdressing movie (and maybe any movie ever!) is the last few seconds (click here, contains audio and movie spoiler) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUfPTeE0DM) of Billy Wilder's 1959 Some Like It Hot.

As to it being dangerous in real life, Marleena, I think you know the answer to that one.

Hug,
Persephone.

[Marleena]

Isn't this the basis of the 1982 Blake Edwards movie Victor Victoria (click here for info) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084865/)? Although she is a woman faking being a crossdressing man, King Marchand (James Garner), a decided womanizer, is very distressed by his romantic feelings for someone he believes is a man.

Of course, the all time best ending to a crossdressing movie (and maybe any movie ever!) is the last few seconds (click here, contains audio and movie spoiler) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUfPTeE0DM) of Billy Wilder's 1959 Some Like It Hot.

Persephone.

In all honesty I've never seen either movie.:)

[Voulez-Vous]

Do you think pretty T-girls make men question their own sexuality?

That depends on how pretty. I have to be honest and say 95% on this forum wouldn't.

[Marleena]

That depends on how pretty. I have to be honest and say 95% on this forum wouldn't.

Everybody's idea of pretty is different. I used the word as a generalization of TG girls that pass until closer inspection and would attract male attention.

[Vickie_CDTV]

As far as trying to fool men, trans folks have been assaulted and even murdered doing that (a friend of mine knew someone who was murdered after hooking up with a straight male, after having sex he found out she was trans and killed her.) Just google "trans panic" and you'll get an eyeful.

Is it the hyperfeminine presentation, or the idea of easy sex that attracts some men to trans? Probably both.

[Marleena]

As far as trying to fool men, trans folks have been assaulted and even murdered doing that (a friend of mine knew someone who was murdered after hooking up with a straight male, after having sex he found out she was trans and killed her.) Just google "trans panic" and you'll get an eyeful.

Is it the hyperfeminine presentation, or the idea of easy sex that attracts some men to trans? Probably both.

Good point Vickie! Trying to fool a GM to have sex is dangerous! I totally get that.

I was only referring to the laws of attraction.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Whoops, I misread a bit. I should have said that as far as straight men go, it is best to turn them away if they want sex because it can be dangerous,some have been... etc etc.

[Sophia Claire]

Now what if they are attracted to a TG girl only to find out she isn't a GG? I'm sure some must go wtf and get angry for being fooled. Is it a dangerous thing?

It happens, yes they think they've been duped and they're angry, and yes this is extremely dangerous. Moreover, I think that they're afraid of being gay. I can think of one incident off the top of my head in which a T-girl was beaten to death by a group of guys (who all had sex with her and apparently failed to notice that which is pretty hard to miss) because they "can't be gay." I assume that it's not the only incident, although right now the numbers escape me. This should not be a big deal. As you said, men are visual. "oh, pretty girl. Turned on, now. Wait, what? Not a pretty girl? Oh... whoops. Not turned on anymore. Jealous, but not turned on." That's how it goes in my mind. Not "OH MY GOD I CAN'T BE GAY! THERE WAS A PENIS RIGHT NEXT TO WHERE I PUT MY PENIS AND I MISSED IT (or did I? >: D )! MUST MURDER ALL EVIDENCE OF MY GAYNESS!"

By the way, something bothers me about the particulars of that incident, and in fact that class of incident. And this is a soapbox for me, so... sorry. Also, WARNING: euphemisms for graphic details ahead!! I can't envision a situation in which you could conceivably not notice a penis on the woman with which you're about to have sex that doesn't involve extreme rudeness on the part of the guy. Really guy? Straight around back without the common courtesy of a reach around? That should have been an alarm bell because there aren't that many women who will actually say "i'm on my period, go around". THAT'S NOT NORMAL. GGs, in my experience, either don't care about the period thing or will just keep their legs closed. Oh, didn't notice anything was amiss in foreplay? Probably wasn't much, was there, you selfish *******? You, sir, need a role model, because the mechanics of this incident say to me that you have no idea how to please a woman. You should have noticed this before you stuck it in. You dropped the ball and a pretty girl had to die horribly because you're a f***ing idiot a**hole. Nice.
End of sex details discussion.


Oh and why are Cd admirers attracted to TG girls? Is it the femininity, or do they think easy sex score?

could be paraphilia (sexual attraction to forbidden or taboo sexual practices, activities, or demographics), could be femininity, could be easy sex, but here's one that gets me: note I have no attraction to people who have or had a penis. I rather like girls who are a bit awkward. Not entirely feminine, but trying. There's something endearingly vulnerable about that, and I think that may be similar to what a CD admirer may like in us. Just conjecture, but it sounds plausible to me.

[Kate Simmons]

It depends Marleena. Any guys I've interacted with knew I was really a guy up front but usually didn't care. I've been told I was a Princess (which I know VV wouldn't agree with), but as you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder.In any case I've never tried to fool anyone and have done quite well. Works for me Hon.:battingeyelashes::)

[StarrOfDelite]

Paradoxically, I tend to agree with both Voulez Vous and Marleena. I think that if we're talking about being observed at high noon on a sunny day from less than ten feet away, only about 1-2 % of all crossdressers, not just on this forum, could fool a man about their gender. On the other hand, with clever studio lighting, the properly artful camera angles, and some Photoshopping, you could probably get a lot of Girls who could take at least one photo which would make them appear attractive enough to elicit a visceral response from a "straight" man.

Alcohol, the male's self-esteem perception of his own attractiveness, and the lighting conditons have a considerable influence, too.

I have to admit that I tend to mostly agree with the statement that somebody famous made to the effect that what we as crossdressers think about the reactions and thought processes of Straight Heterosexual Men is inherently flawed, because no matter how we identify our own sexual preferences, we never were, are not now, and will never be Straight Heterosexual Men.

[Diane Smith]

I relate to attractive TGs the same way I react to pretty GGs -- I mainly want to know how they do it, where they buy clothes, how they do their makeup and so forth. In the context of a TG gathering, talk about these subjects is expected, and it's often easier to ask questions directly than when I see an attractive GG who may misinterpret my intentions. Unfortunately, this can be misinterpreted by other TGs as well, and it has backfired on me at least once.

But I'm absolutely not interested in sex with anyone who owns a working penis, no matter how talented, pretty or seductive they may be. In this I probably have an advantage over many "civilian" males, in that my CD detector is finely tuned and I am less likely than some to mis-read an attractive crossdresser as a GG. Plus, if I did make a mistake, I wouldn't be likely to be freaked out to the point of disgust or violence, and would more likely have a big hearty laugh about it.

- Diane

[JeanneF]

I think that it's a chicken/egg situation. In my opinion, it's more of a man using a pretty T-girl as an excuse to question his sexuality.

I'm a firm believer that sexuality is a spectrum. There are very few people that are 100% straight, and there are few people that are 100% gay. I agree with Sophia that the violent reaction is because a guy is such a homophobe (and probably closet case) that he can't fathom that he may not be 100% straight.

That sort of behavoir manifests itself on here frequently as well...look at all the "OMG why do people thing I'm gay because I like to wear dresses and makeup the world is so unfair" threads that get posted. Really? You may like girls, but you ain't exactly straight, buddy. :D

[Brittany CD]

I think when a person is first introduced to the world of TG and CD, they might question their sexuality because of the beauty some of these girls have. I think men are more attracted to what they perceive are women. I find many crossdressers to be absolutely gorgeous and I find them attractive, but if they show their male selves (like in the boy to girl thread in the Pictures and Video section) then I don't see any physical attraction. I think that's how it is for most men

[Eryn]

Like you said, men are visual. They are (generally) attracted to what they see as available and attractive females. If indeed that person is not truly a female trouble is very likely and we've all heard stories of what often happens then.

That is one thing I'm glad that I don't have to deal with. Not many men are going to make a pass at a 6'+ older woman!

[NathalieX66]

Feminine beauty is an attraction to me. Whether born female or not is no conflict for me.
I'm not attracted to hunky gay men, I can't stand them. I hate males.

[Noemi]

Yes Yes and Yes.
Plus men will do anything that moves. LOL!!

I love sexy men too. I see them probably just like a woman does. I saw one guy today that was the King of my heart. I started flirting with him, though he did not know it, big, dumb, beautiful man, perfect hair OMG...just talked for a while. I am very nice and do not come off as gay, I made him smile is all.

But yes men are checking out the pretty trans girls.

[justsearching]

So in the past I have said I'd totally date a boy and such but now that I have the chance, I second guess it. He doesn't know that I am a CD. He dresses full time as a girl but identifies as a boy. He is gay and just likes looking pretty, and he is really pretty. He really likes me and is always saying he wants to be mine. He even will say he is pretty much a girl to make it easier for me I guess. But as pretty as he is it's hard to get passed the fact that he indeed, is a boy. So I do question my sexuality, to a certain extent. We have not been together yet but I love talking to him, because I do feel as if I'm talking to a girl but in the end I know that isn't what he is. I know I'm rambling now but it does indeed make me question myself.

[erica12b]

I 5hink we on the forum have had lots of little talks with ourselves and we are more in touch, with what we want, as for the guy on the street, if he see a hot girl he get excited , he finds out hot girl is a guy it fight or flight , and hot girl cant run in heels , not good , im not that fond of the male side , beat someone up so they can feel good about them selfs. Not good.

[Badtranny]

I started flirting with him, though he did not know it, big, dumb, beautiful man, perfect hair OMG...just talked for a while.

I love this.

I think we like the same guys. ;-)

[Lorileah]

I don't even think 1%. There has to be a lot of things in place to really "fool" a man. I also don't buy the Trans-panic thing so much as the Trans-OH-CRAP now they think I am gay panic. Note that doesn't mean that the violence isn't very real I just believe that usually it is the guy KNOWS what he is getting into then freaks afterward. (also part of that is the non-reveal by the TG... no matter how much you think you are female or how well you pass so to speak, you need to be honest before it gets to the point where you life could be in danger). And yes it would be dangerous that is why you have to take every precaution to protect yourself BEFORE it gets out of hand.

Now in RE:Admirers. I think it is the mistaken idea that because we are male, we will react as males and want sex with anything that moves as noted above. Also in my experience, since in general I present as dressy and stylish, it attracts men who like someone they can be seen with. Yes, they have ideas of what may come later. Now, I am going way out here because everyone knows I don't buy the "dress your age" and the "don't dress like a tramp" things. Like women I believe we should be able to dress as we wish. However when you dress to show body parts you will attract guys who want those body parts in bed... Don't put yourself in that situation and you will have less chance bad things will happen

[Julogden]

I think that violence against trans women is very often because the guy is upset that he's feeling attraction for someone he considers to be another man, mistakenly thinking that feeling attraction for a transwoman means he's gay and he doesn't know how to deal with that so he reacts violently toward the one who "made" him feel the attraction.

I seem to recall one of the defendants in the Gwen Araujo murder tried to use that as an alibi, but in that case, he was more than just attracted, he had sexual relations with Gwen (didn't know that Gwen was a trans woman) He said that he believed that having sex with Gwen meant that he was gay for the rest of his life, so he reacted out of anger at Gwen over his incorrect perception that she had turned him gay.

Carol

[Eryn]

I seem to recall one of the defendants in the Gwen Araujo murder tried to use that as an alibi,...He said that he believed that having sex with Gwen meant that he was gay for the rest of his life, so he reacted out of anger at Gwen over his incorrect perception that she had turned him gay.

Keep in mind that this ridiculous "justification" likely didn't come from the mind of the defendant, but rather was thought up by his attorney in an attempt to justify his client's crime.

[Marleena]

Keep in mind that this ridiculous "justification" likely didn't come from the mind of the defendant, but rather was thought up by his attorney in an attempt to justify his client's crime.

That's a good point Eryn! They are trying to do away with the "trans panic" defense.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/09/banning_the_trans_panic_defense.php

[katie_barns]

I question my sexuality ever day. It didn't take a t-girl to do that.............. Hold on I am a T-girl.......... Forget what I just said. :)

[Marleena]

I question my sexuality ever day. It didn't take a t-girl to do that.............. Hold on I am a T-girl.......... Forget what I just said. :)

LOl.. okay. Works for me!:)

[whowhatwhen]

"Being gay is the worst possible thing that could happen to me."
- Large parts of society in the year 2012

[Eryn]

"Being gay is the worst possible thing that could happen to me."
- Large parts of society in the year 2012

Hook those "large parts" up to a lie detector and ask them if they would prefer terminal cancer. :straightface:

[LilSissyStevie]

This talk given by Ogi Ogas, co-author of A Billion Wicked Thoughts, should be enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-A8GvUehq4

[Amy Fakley]

This talk given by Ogi Ogas, co-author of A Billion Wicked Thoughts, should be enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-A8GvUehq4

thank you for this! I'm only about 10 minutes into this video, but it is an absolutely fascinating talk!

[PrettyFlowingGown]

I think so. I have always considered myself to be straight but when I see a beautiful transgender or cd I am attracted to them. I don't think there is anything wrong with being attracted to beauty no matter it be male or female. I guess I would consider myself femisexual, attracted to those in feminine form.

I love the word femisexual, never heard that before!!!!
i am very attracted to a pretty transaxual or even another Pretty CD. I've been intimate with a CD a few times, and a transexual too, and they've been wonderful moments.
It is the beauty that appeals to me, but also feminity makes you want to act like women intimately too.

[TxKimberly]

You are talking about several different topics at once here I think!

1 - If your a T-girl that looks so flawless that men do not realize that you are not a GG, then no, there is no reason for them to question their sexual orientation. All they see is an attractive woman, and presumably this is what they desire.

2 - If you are that same T-girl, and you intentionally and knowingly come on to a hetero male, then I would say that yes, you are most definitely flirting with great bodily harm. If he thinks that you are a GG, thinks that he is flirting with a GG, and then discovers that you are physically a male, it takes no great act of imagination to picture him getting VERY angry, and God help you if this happens in front of anyone that he knows . . .

[kellycan27]

You are talking about several different topics at once here I think!

1 - If your a T-girl that looks so flawless that men do not realize that you are not a GG, then no, there is no reason for them to question their sexual orientation. All they see is an attractive woman, and presumably this is what they desire.

2 - If you are that same T-girl, and you intentionally and knowingly come on to a hetero male, then I would say that yes, you are most definitely flirting with great bodily harm. If he thinks that you are a GG, thinks that he is flirting with a GG, and then discovers that you are physically a male, it takes no great act of imagination to picture him getting VERY angry, and God help you if this happens in front of anyone that he knows . . .

Good answer.. I agree 100%

[busker]

First of all I hope nobody finds the term T-girls offensive. We have some very pretty members here that can attract male attention. We know men are very visual. They see a hot girl and they get turned on.

Now what if they are attracted to a TG girl only to find out she isn't a GG? I'm sure some must go wtf and get angry for being fooled. Is it a dangerous thing?

The CD amirers are different since they are attacted to the TG girls in the first place.

Your thoughts? I have no idea myself.

Oh and why are Cd admirers attracted to TG girls? Is it the femininity, or do they think easy sex score?
I find the terminology confusing. Are you writing here about T(ransgendered)-girls? If it is the umbrella term, then you should just say CD's who pass to nearly everyone that sees them (or maybe not), and if you are talking about pre-,post-op trans-sexuals, then it would be better to say that (or she-males). There is a big difference because a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman. CDs , on the other hand are NOT women, and the case of mistaken identity would involve something else in a guys mind when he finds out. With a TS who has had a vaginaplasty, there would be the proper equipment but the male may still feel that the TS is a man, having been born a genetic male. So one would perhaps not question their sexuality in the same way, as if they have been FOOLED by a CD.

[Marleena]

I find the terminology confusing. Are you writing here about T(ransgendered)-girls? If it is the umbrella term, then you should just say CD's who pass to nearly everyone that sees them (or maybe not), and if you are talking about pre-,post-op trans-sexuals, then it would be better to say that (or she-males). There is a big difference because a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman. CDs , on the other hand are NOT women, and the case of mistaken identity would involve something else in a guys mind when he finds out. With a TS who has had a vaginaplasty, there would be the proper equipment but the male may still feel that the TS is a man, having been born a genetic male. So one would perhaps not question their sexuality in the same way, as if they have been FOOLED by a CD.

Yeah I'm kinda regretting posting it all now. I was not clear enough. I was thinking more along the lines of a guy seeing a hot girl only to find out she's transgendered when he gets closer..

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Maeleena , You know that things arn't always what they seam to be.

Mick Dundee found out the hard way after that he was a lot more careful.

[TxKimberly]

Yes there were a few questions posed Kimberly.:)

As far as the guys being fooled I didn't mean in an intimate situation, I just meant as in them being attracted to her until closer inspection. Any T-girl that leads a guy on is asking for trouble, that's for sure.

It depends. While it is largely thought of us being kind of an Asian thing, ALL men are kind of touchy about "loosing face". If in the privacy of his own mind he was admiring you until he realized that you were not what you at first appeared to be, then probably "no harm no foul".
It's a whole different thing though if he is sitting in a bar, half tanked up with his friends, and was bragging about how hot you were to the others before they figured it out. I spent enough time in the Army with very macho men to know that some of them would almost feel obligated to hassle you after that.
"Yeah, that shim had me fooled for a moment, but then I kicked his freaking ass!" and then there are high fives all the way around the drunk table. Now every time they tell the story of "John" being fooled by the cross dresser, the story ends with "Yeah, but he kicked his ass!" and so it's all good in their world.

EDIT - Kelly's pointing out someone's use of an undesirable description or name for us leads me to believe that I should make it clear that I used the term "shim" to make my point of how some men might react. It sure as hell is not a term that I find acceptable myself.

[kathtx]

...a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman.

Perhaps true in many cases but there are lots of us TS lesbians out there too, and for us there's no "natural progression" towards men any more than there is for GG lesbians.

This issue was part of why it took me so long to understand that I was TS, not CD. For the longest time I was puzzled by the apparent contradiction between wanting to be a woman yet being very attracted to women and having no interest in men. Then I met a few TS women who were lesbians. Doh! THAT's where I fit. Lightbulb goes on. I'm a fairly intelligent gal; why didn't I realize that sooner?

[kellycan27]

I find the terminology confusing. Are you writing here about T(ransgendered)-girls? If it is the umbrella term, then you should just say CD's who pass to nearly everyone that sees them (or maybe not), and if you are talking about pre-,post-op trans-sexuals, then it would be better to say that (or she-males). There is a big difference because a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman. CDs , on the other hand are NOT women, and the case of mistaken identity would involve something else in a guys mind when he finds out. With a TS who has had a vaginaplasty, there would be the proper equipment but the male may still feel that the TS is a man, having been born a genetic male. So one would perhaps not question their sexuality in the same way, as if they have been FOOLED by a CD.

She-males..... what a lovely term. I am sure you just endeared yourself to about 150% of the TS girls that use this site.

[busker]

She-males..... what a lovely term. I am sure you just endeared yourself to about 150% of the TS girls that use this site.

sorry Kelly , no offense meant. it just seems to be the term that occupies much of the internet space. I should have just left it at TS and everyone would have understood.

[docrobbysherry]

I don't know about other men, Marleena! However, next time a guy twice my size and 1/2 my age follows my to the deserted end of a parking building, (like happened in Vegas), I'll be SURE to ask him that question!
You are talking about several different topics at once here I think!

1 - If your a T-girl that looks so flawless that men do not realize that you are not a GG, then no, there is no reason for them to question their sexual orientation. All they see is an attractive woman, and presumably this is what they desire.------------------
Many of the lady boys of Thailand r EXACTLY as u described, Kim! Ever since I spent an evening in a bar full of them, I've been questioning MY sexuality! One that stayed with us for hours was SO FEM and SO HOT!
Of course, they weren't trying FOOL anyone there! Altho some could have quite easily!

[seanmuscle]

She-males..... what a lovely term. I am sure you just endeared yourself to about 150% of the TS girls that use this site.

Kelly is a perfect example of why men would want to date a trans woman. Men wouldnt question sexuality either. Kelly is hotter than 95% of gg out there

[natacsha]

The way I see it, firstly, there wouldn't be anything to question if there wasn't any questioning to begin with. Having said that, it's nothing unusual to have questions and doubts. Those who chose to act on them define whether or not it's truly a part of them. As for attraction to tgirls, cders etc...beauty is beauty. Most men don't have a problem admiring beauty. Some will not care, some won't care but no touchy and others turn their back and keep walking. there is nothing wrong with a line up of 10 girls half GG and the other are M2F and no one knowing and judging their beauty. after all, they can't question what they don't know so therefore shouldn't question anything if they find out. It's either for them or isn't. It's not about trying to fool anyone, it's about how you feel you need to be perceived as. The way I see it is the better I can cover my 5oclock the less of a vampire I become.

[Michelle.M]

Do you think pretty T-girls make men question their own sexuality?

Your thoughts? I have no idea myself.

Marleena, this has been a rather interesting thread! Despite your later comments regretting what you've posted I kinda like seeing what people have to say.

When I read your first post I understood the implications you made regarding the difference between TS and CD, and although I am not offended by the use of the term "T-girl" (I use it all the time) we have to recognize that it isn't a standard term and definitely not one that has the same meanings to even everyone on this board (as we have now seen).

So, there seems to be some confusion and thus the answers reflect whether the person giving them is referring to a CD or TS "T-girl". My perspective is that of a pre-op TS.

Short answer, yes! And many men will quickly address that issue in one way or another. When I first began to date my boyfriend he quickly pointed out that he wasn't gay. I laughed out loud when I answered and told him "I certainly hope not! I'm heterosexual and I have no interest in gay men!"


I think one of the great obstacles to being accepted as a transgendered person is that some males do find thier own sexuality challenged. It seems that some men worry that they might be gay, and some men worry that they might really like being women. Certainly, it can be disconcerting for some men to feel a sexual attraction to a person, only to realize that the person is genetically male.

You've hit the nail on the head! Regrettably, men who are homophobic often express that in violence when they feel deceived. In fact, this is really the basis for much of that anti-trans bathroom legislation. The arguments always seem to center on the deception myth, that we're all out to ensnare unsuspecting men into doing horrible things that they'd never, ever dream of doing in their normal, decent, morally upright lives.

Yup, that's us. Bad, bad transwomen!


There has to be a lot of things in place to really "fool" a man. I also don't buy the Trans-panic thing so much as the Trans-OH-CRAP now they think I am gay panic. Note that doesn't mean that the violence isn't very real I just believe that usually it is the guy KNOWS what he is getting into then freaks afterward. (also part of that is the non-reveal by the TG... no matter how much you think you are female or how well you pass so to speak, you need to be honest before it gets to the point where you life could be in danger). And yes it would be dangerous that is why you have to take every precaution to protect yourself BEFORE it gets out of hand.

Exactly! But seriously, is there anyone here that is so dimwitted as to not be able to recognize when a man is flirting with her or finds her attractive? If you're pre-op, non-op or a CD you've got to do something -

- Discourage your suitor, leave the area or don't put yourself in that position in the first place, or

- if this is something you want then find a way to address the subject in a safe and non-threatening way

And above all, be careful! Always make sure that you know who you're talking to and try to understand how open minded they might be before you put yourself at risk.


I find the terminology confusing. Are you writing here about T(ransgendered)-girls? If it is the umbrella term, then you should just say CD's who pass to nearly everyone that sees them (or maybe not), and if you are talking about pre-,post-op trans-sexuals, then it would be better to say that (or she-males).

Busker, because you apologized to kellycan27 I'm going to spare you the drubbing that you so richly deserve. But seriously? 733 posts as of your last and you still talk like someone who gets all of your TG education from ******* porn sites. You've really got to start paying attention if you're going to hang around here.

And just so you know how bad this is, if you had called me a ******* to my face you'd find out very, very quickly just how offensive that term really is.


There is a big difference because a TS at some point will be looking for a male to have relations with as part of the natural progression since their ultimate goal is to BE a woman.

OMG, have you lost your mind? Do you really not know the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation? Are you really unaware that there are plenty of transwomen in all phases of transition who identify as lesbian?


With a TS who has had a vaginaplasty, there would be the proper equipment but the male may still feel that the TS is a man, having been born a genetic male

Really? So there's only one way in, hmm? Surely you do know that many heterosexual couples also engage in anal sex as a regular part of their sexual activities. Or is that news to you? So far, lack of "proper equipment" hasn't prevented me from having a fulfilling heterosexual sexual relationship.

[ElaineB]

I think it only causes men to question their sexuality if they are insecure about it in the first place. Unfortunately... in our cultures that is most men, because of the neurotic attitudes towards sex that we are raised with.

If somebody clear-headed about sex got busy with a TG woman then discovered, he'd probably think something like "hm.. so she has a penis... well the other body parts feel pretty good, it might be fun" ... and then ultimately might or might not decide it was to his taste (or she was or wasn't), just like the things they do with any GG.

Instead most just panic and think "Oh my god does this mean I'm <insert category here>?" because they worry what everybody else will think or do if they are <category>, never mind whether it actually makes sense.

[whowhatwhen]

Does the question then become "how do we fix this"?

How can you correct homophobia so strong that they believe they can be "turned gay"?
How can you educate the next generations when equality is being fought tooth and nail?

It's sad to think that as far as society has come, there will still be plenty of deaths caused by ignorance and blind hatred.

[Kaz]

If I was hitting on a girl and found out she was a CD I'd be delighted as this would be a serious conversation and hopefully a good friendly relationship! But then I don't hit on girls! Been 'happily' married most of my life and even though we are now more friends than lovers, I have no desire to 'cheat', as I believe it is often called.

BUT... Many many years ago a bass player in one of my early bands did establish a relationship with a CD, thinking she was a GG, and was pretty hurt when he found out he'd been 'tricked'. He was young and very naive at the time.

The world may seem different now with the internet and all this 'information', but most guys process the surface info first... nice chick? If they then find the she is a he, they have a choice... whoops, sorry... or anger at being fooled.

Crocodile Dundee?

[Leslie Mary S]

Yes I think it does cause all men to question their sexuality. In some areas, like were I exist, it is a great disgrace for a GM to even have any feminine thoughts or actions. It threatens their standing in the local GM hierarchic. I was not aware of this when I built my home here in 1984. nor when I finally moved here in 2004.
I am seriously thinking of selling the house and land and moving elsewhere and starting anew as a 24/7 female.

[Sarah Doepner]

Honestly, I don't think it takes a passable T-girl to make the average testosterone filled guy to question his sexuality. I've seen the simple existence of crossdressers in the same general area as guys seem to irritate the bejezzus out of these fellows. I may be reading more into the situation that was there, but what else could make them so angry with no direct contact or interaction? Now they may not have gone deep enough in their self analysis in that moment to figure out what had them angry, but if anyone was ever able to sit them down and work through it, I think they feared if that could happen to some other guy, they were in jeapordy of wearing a dress as well.

[BRANDYJ]

First of all I hope nobody finds the term T-girls offensive. We have some very pretty members here that can attract male attention. We know men are very visual. They see a hot girl and they get turned on.

Oh and why are Cd admirers attracted to TG girls? Is it the femininity, or do they think easy sex score?

Marleena, some TG admirers are those that do not want to admit even to themselves that they are gay or bi. If they see a TG woman and are attracted to her even knowing she is not a GG. That makes everything OK to have sex with her since they can pretend that she is a GG making it OK. Not much different from the CD that say they are attracted to other CD's and can justify having sex as if they are 2 lesbians. You know, the ones that say they are straight, but either do or want to have sex with other CD's.

[Badtranny]

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. If they meet a CD (a very good one) or a Pre or Non-op TS and find that they are attracted to her, they are brought to the big "decision" immediately after the discovery of the hidden appendage. If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON. For example, I'm attracted to men who have a certain level of fitness but I would be able to look past a bit of a belly if I really liked him. Am I looking for a guy with a beer gut? Hells no, but if I met someone, and he was awesome in other ways, I could deal with the belly, provided it was manageable.

I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude. I think it would be fine. I also think he wouldn't have any problem getting his freak on if that's the way his girl wanted to roll. ;-)

[busker]

if you're going to hang around here.



Yes, exactly. I've been debating with myself whether there is anything here worth my time. After all, I'm JUST a crossdresser, living with lung cancer, wondering if this is the best place to spend my time when I might actually be doing something to further my interest in JUST crossdressing elsewhere.
well, TTFN

[kellycan27]

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. If they meet a CD (a very good one) or a Pre or Non-op TS and find that they are attracted to her, they are brought to the big "decision" immediately after the discovery of the hidden appendage. If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON. For example, I'm attracted to men who have a certain level of fitness but I would be able to look past a bit of a belly if I really liked him. Am I looking for a guy with a beer gut? Hells no, but if I met someone, and he was awesome in other ways, I could deal with the belly, provided it was manageable.

I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude. I think it would be fine. I also think he wouldn't have any problem getting his freak on if that's the way his girl wanted to roll. ;-)

I agree with you for the most part. When I met my future husband he was a client with the company I worked for, and the owner's best friend. He would often stop by on business or just to visit his friend. It was to become a regular thing for him to stop by my office to say hi and do a bit of casual flirting. This went on for almost a year and as far as I could tell he had no clue. One day I ran into him at crowded restaurant. He was standing in line to get a table and when I noticed him I offered to share mine. As we made made small talk the subject of motorcycles came up ( we both ride) and he said that there was an event coming up and that "maybe we could attend it together". I said.. Are you asking me out on a date? His response was yes.. I guess I am. I told him that I would think it over, and he jokingly asked if I was playing hard to get. (I was definitely interested, but in a quandary as to the disclosure thing) Should I tell him before the date or after? That decision was made for me. Shortly after our lunch meeting he expressed an interest in dating me to my boss ( his friend) at which time he promptly outed me. The date for the motorcycle event came and went.. and there was never any mention of it. I was upset ( crushed) and whenever he dropped by i would give him the cold shoulder. Too busy to talk to you now, I have work to do. One day he showed up at my house and said he wanted to explain. ( I didn't invite him in, I just folded my arms across my chest and leaned against the door frame). There's no need to explain.. I know the drill. You're one of those guys who is only interested in my looks and what's in my panties and not me the person. You asked me out on a date, not to sleep with you or maybe that's how you figured it would go.. we'd go out and afterwards I'd just automatically fall into your bed. No.. I am sorry I just didn't know and.... I was hoping we could talk and at the very least still be friends. Friends? Lucky me! Kelly.. first runner up. She gets the consolation prize of being "your friend". I basically told him to go F himself and I didn't need to be his friend. Well not basically.. I actually said just that. After sulking for a couple of weeks and being mad at the world I finally realized that I had fallen for the hype.. my own as well as the others. guys hitting on me and asking me out. People telling me how pretty I was etc. I also realized that it wasn't his fault.. how could it be? He didn't know. I offered the olive branch and we made up ( agreeing to be friends). We started doing things together... no sex, jut two people spending time and eventually ( almost 2 years) it all came together. There's a ton more to the story.. these are just the cliff notes. I don't think it was ever a question of his own sexual identity, but rather his sexual preference.
As far as being kept as someone's dirty little secret.. I could go on a rant about that, but I won't lol

[Michelle.M]

I think dudes get really tied up in the black/white concept of sexuality because of our attitude about it as a society. . . .If you are attracted to a PERSON who happens to have a, um ...differentiator then it seems like it's totally possible that you could look beyond the offensive part because you are so attracted to this PERSON.

Oh, no doubt! That's exactly what's going on with me. Admittedly, my boyfriend likes the outlook that I have as a transwoman, but that's the main attraction and not the fact that I still have my original plumbing. That just happens to come with the girl (for now).


I think most men could deal with dating a passable "T-girl" under one condition; That nobody else knows. As long as they don't have to explain to their friends, or "come out" to them as a dude who is dating somebody who used to be a dude

And since I am not out that actually works out just fine for us. As far as I'm concerned my birth gender is not only not anyone else's business it's not even relevant to anything I am today, except insofar as my past has shaped my current outlook.


As far as being kept as someone's dirty little secret.. I could go on a rant about that, but I won't lol

Kelly, I think I know where you're coming from. I am not at all interested in being someone's dirty little secret or someone's clandestine fetish or anything like that. Although I am not out in terms of my gender history that doesn't mean that the rest of my life isn't out in the open. I do not sneak around in the shadows for anyone. If someone can't introduce me to friends, family, coworkers or kids then I'm not interested in being with that person. But we don't have to discuss my body parts. Leaving private business private - yes. Having to be "discreet" and be a secret? No way!

Oh, by the way, Kelly - what a great story!

[kellycan27]

Oh, by the way, Kelly - what a great story!

It was a horrible time for me.. while we were being "friends" I was always hoping for more, and being that we were just friends he was dating other girls ( some pretty hot ones at that) and I would see them together at company functions that we'd attend. I can't tell you how many times he ( unintentionally) broke my heart.

[Michelle.M]

Yes, exactly. I've been debating with myself whether there is anything here worth my time. After all, I'm JUST a crossdresser, living with lung cancer, wondering if this is the best place to spend my time when I might actually be doing something to further my interest in JUST crossdressing elsewhere.
well, TTFN

Hey, spare us the passive-agressive "woe is me, the poor picked-on CD" nonsense. We had this very same exchange 16 months ago -

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?150262-How-many-of-you-are-straight-but-flirt-with-men-anyway/page2

It's not our fault that since then your outlook has not matured.

Nobody is making it hard for anyone to be here. But you cannot continue to promote an agenda of outdated gender politics and wackiness and expect that nobody will challenge you for that.

I'd prefer that you stick around and just read what people are saying here and understand what makes sense and what's offensive. That's not anything that any ordinary person wouldn't do. But whether you stay or leave is entirely up to you. DO NOT put that on us!

[Michelle.M]

It was a horrible time for me.. while we were being "friends" I was always hoping for more, and being that we were just friends he was dating other girls ( some pretty hot ones at that) and I would see them together at company functions that we'd attend. I can't tell you how many times he ( unintentionally) broke my heart.

What?! Hotter than you? Sweetie, PLEASE! Ain't no such thing.

But it had a happy ending. You've got a nice relationship with him now! You both overcame the issue. THAT's a great story!

[tiffanyjo89]

I don't think pretty / sexy t-girls make straight men directly question their sexuality...at least until they find out their looking at someone who has a male bit in between their legs (or at least did in one point in their life, and quite possibly live as most people who have it do for a bit of the time).

What most t-girls look like to most men, I'd imagine, is a woman who has some strong features. I think a guy who would fall for a typical t-girl would probably fall for an athletic looking genetic woman as well.

What I do think most men question if they find out they are turned on by a person with "male parts" (no matter how "not-male" they look) is their ability to "discern" "male" vs "female." One of the things I've heard a few times is that women, particularly teenage girls, are typically better at telling a t-girls from real girls. Most men, though, who claim to be 100% straight claim they could never fall for any guy (and most people say that a guy who wears women's clothing is still a guy, no matter if he feels like a woman and even has grown breasts and had "the surgery").

***the usage of the term "t-girl" in this post is meant to be all-inclusive. This means I am referring to a part-time m2f crossdresser, a full-time m2f cd (someone who just wears the clothing without any long term alterations to their body, passing might not be important), a part-time m2f transsexual (someone who feels they are in the wrong body, but doesn't want to have alterations made), a full-time pre-op m2f, a full-time post-op m2f, and all shades of gray between those "levels."***

[docrobbysherry]

Honestly, I don't think it takes a passable T-girl to make the average testosterone filled guy to question his sexuality. I've seen the simple existence of crossdressers in the same general area as guys seem to irritate the bejezzus out of these fellows. I may be reading more into the situation that was there, but what else could make them so angry with no direct contact or interaction? Now they may not have gone deep enough in their self analysis in that moment to figure out what had them angry, but if anyone was ever able to sit them down and work through it, I think they feared if that could happen to some other guy, they were in jeapordy of wearing a dress as well.
This may be out of left field, Sarah. I don't know what men think when they see CDs or Tgirls!

However, back before I ever tried on any ladies things. Back when I was totally clueless as to why guys dressed that way.
When I saw a CD/TS, I wondered why they would want to appear as a homely woman when they could appear as a decent looking man?
I really don't know if other men stare and think that same thing or not.

[Marleena]

What I'm getting from this thread is that pretty MTF's (cd/tg/ts) will attract male attention. How the men will react seems to be based on peer pressure or their openness to approach the woman.

I probably could have chosen a better title though.:)

Kelly's story in this thread is one of acceptance from a straight male. I find it wonderful and refreshing. It's a message of hope:)