The middle ground

[max]

I saw a few threads lately about people who identified as male but who wanted to get breast implants, and found the responses to this quite curious.

So I went searching for old threads and found similar responses.

It seems as though people on this site may talk a good game about gender being a spectrum, but how many people actually believe it?

I'm not talking about the possible difficulties a person may encounter, just the motivations for doing so.

Do people not believe that someone may feel themselves some sort of blend of male and female? It seems as though that is decreed an illegitimate position.

[Thera Home]

hey max
Folks have a little trouble on this I think. Its either one or the other. I say utilize both for different purposes. The choices are yours to make on how to utilize this tool(I call it). Either construct or destroy.


Thera

[Sally24]

I think its the.permanence of the change and the.difficulty of hiding breasts if you aren't full time. The responses I remember don't really object so much as warn of difficulties.

[JessicaVal]

Simply a theory...

I'm not exactly sure how to describe it, but it seems like people encourage others to progress to whatever point they are at, and then also encourage people not to go beyond.

I say that because people that are out of the closet usually suggest coming out...but people in the closet seem to say stay in. Perhaps some subconscious projection?

I do believe that gender is a spectrum, while sex is a genetic absolute. Sex affects gender, because society uses external evidence to determine internal existence.

[whowhatwhen]

Most will discourage it because it doesn't make sense, anyone growing up male with boobs knew that they were a damn nightmare when it came to other people noticing them.

It's not so much dismissing their feelings as much as it is thinking that a man getting breast implants is not a good idea, and that there is a good chance he'll regret it later on.
In fact, there was a thread here not too long ago with basically that same story. He was ecstatic enfemme but the breasts were depressing him as a man.

[NathalieX66]

Hmm, feminine expression to me doesn't require breast implants, but going out in public does.
I know the mayor of Silverton, Oregon Stewart Rassmussen did such a thing, he's like the rest of us.

I'll be willing to do HRT, but not implants. In my mind, being a girl is a state of mind. I like that.

[Marleena]

Most will discourage it because it doesn't make sense, anyone growing up male with boobs knew that they were a damn nightmare when it came to other people noticing them.


This happened to me the other day. I was walking my dog and a neighbor came out of his house and was looking at me in shock. I realized later he saw my moobs. I went home and looked at myself sideways in the mirror, the angle he saw me at, yep that was it!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Max, I know that I went through hell in Jr.High school with my Boy Boobs.
No thanks I'll take the removable kind.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Max clearly wants to discuss the seeming polarizing effect of Crossdressing and how many CDers don't take advantage of the middle ground of the spectrum and run to the Pink feminine side completely.

Typical men obsessed with boobs :doh::D

I have noticed this too Max. Many in this community seem to go all out and become totaly immersed in femininity. few seem to take advantage of the middle or the opportunity to go back and forth or at least they don't talk about it much.

My thoughts are that, as we all well know, many CDers start off repressing it. It is alot of energy building up. When it is finally released the force of the explosion propels them all the way and they never look back.

[max]

Max clearly wants to discuss the seeming polarizing effect of Crossdressing and how many CDers don't take advantage of the middle ground of the spectrum and run to the Pink feminine side completely.

That is not what I meant

[Barbara Ella]

I espouse that if you are happy where you are, stay there until you decide to do something different. You should listen to others, but you must make up your mind, and then decide to add something to what you like to do. Whatever that is..period.

I disagree with your premises. At no time have I found any support for decreeing an illegitimate position. You are interpreting something for your purposes, and I do not believe I have seen much to support what you assert that people here do not believe gender is a spectrum. In fact, your statement actually supports the view of a spectrum, after all, even a spectrum must have some milestone points, such as breasts if so desired. the motivation being personal achievement and a feeling of well being..

I also believe that for a lot of us, the augmentation is not necessary. and the spectrum has us fully in tow. I must be male, or at least present, at times. I know now that I am female in a ver big part of me, and can just sit here with next to nothing female on, and still think and feel female. I believe that most here will support that state of being.

Barbara

[Marleena]

If a CDer or a GM is convinced they want a boob job I say more power to them. If they have the money and want to do it, it does not affect me. It is their personal choice and they have to live with it. Just look for threads with CDers wanting to try breast enhancement products. Women do (BA) all the time to make themselves feel or look better and nobody bats an eye..

[Sara Jessica]

I have yet to encounter a CD'er in these pages who actually followed through with their little (or big) breast implant fantasy.

[Ann Thomas]

Hi Max,
I've settled for the middle ground and I'm proud of it! Another person mentioned Stewart Rasmussen, and that's one person I have admired ever since I first read the news articles. This summer, when taking a Sociology course, I read about the Muxe, a transgender portion of the Zapotecs in Mexico, where they consider themselves neither male nor female, but a third gender, a mixture of both actually.

I go out all the time dressed in female clothing, but I am by no means what anyone should consider passable. I don't try to hide it, as neither did Stew in the news videos I watched, and neither do the Muxe. I do try to look my best, though - I'm not some hairy guy in women's clothes, not like Klinger on M*A*S*H.

I am trying to grow breasts naturally, and maybe some day, I might even go for implants. In cases where I'd need to be in boy mode, I will have to learn how to properly bind them.

I do know what you're talking about. At the support group meetings I;ve gone to a few times, I run into that there. The girls there look at me with a quizzical expression and say, "Why would you not want to be passable, not do hormones, and not have SRS?" It just blows their minds that someone could feel at home somewhere in the middle. I respect their position enough to not be critical of it, and I'd rather be a patient example to them of how someone could really want the middle ground - to become, as the Muxe call it, a third gender.

I don't think our society has yet grown far enough to accept this as an option. At this point it's just much easier to say, 'Yes' when someone asks, 'so you're feeling like you were born in the wrong body?' and you can tell that's a stretch for them and anything more would blow a gasket in their noggin. The acceptance of the Muxe as being a third gender goes back centuries, far before the invasion of this continent.

Hugs,
Ann

[docrobbysherry]

Sure! :heehee: You're laffing now, but it WILL HAPPEN!:tongueout

Inflatable implants r coming! Filled NOT with air, but a safe, realistically weighted, liquid!

Imagine it! Size D's at the CD conventions or at the "club". :battingeyelashes:
And, FLAT for work on Monday AM!:eek:

[Eryn]

I have yet to encounter a CD'er in these pages who actually followed through with their little (or big) breast implant fantasy.

I know of one:

http://www.janetscloset.com/breast_implants.htm

[noeleena]

Hi,Max,

Not for me & theres a lot of us who are, okay we are not all the same in how we think or look or wether we have our wombs or not you see we are different of cause youll now know were im heading we are in our different ways intersexed.

That middle ground yes ill allways be there, im both male / female. that cant be changed no matter what mones i take & i wont , what im on now is for my bodys maintaince , as to surgerys yes iv had a few , still wont change the way i am,

The last part of your post for me is outright ....NO....

Because im accepted for who i am & i move freely between male / female i dont think ether way as such because theres no difference for me, as to acceptance people know my background fully , nothings hidden & why should i have to hide my past & background . point is i wont.

Decreed by who,

I know youv asked more in line with dresser's yet you have to look at the whole of that position . & to what decree a person is as for intersexed is & even the person them selfs may not know , in fact many dont. hence a swing to male & female.

Iv known since age 10 never had any issues or probs with what & who i was then or now, & thats 56 out of 65 years.

...noeleena...

[natacsha]

Hi Max! I'm gonna reach out even further than normal on this one because I have noticed that as well and it actually became somewhat confusing to me and I don't feel it's fair for others who are on the fence to feel like they're being deceived, even if it is just incidental.

many people here, just like people in real life, just like to go with the flow and if the flow is pink and has bowties attached to the ends of the rolling fog then that's what they are gonna pretend to be. It isn't really that bad of an thing to act like you are more or less than what you are but when people are desperately seeking out answers to things that no one else can answer and people, myself included, share our deepest feelings and thoughts with hopes of finding answers, it does become somewhat overwhelming and confusing to hear most everyone speak the same with regards to whos more fem than the next...then come the labels....but through posts and certain contradictions you'll come to see who's real and who isn't with regard to that.

In regards to people feeling the feelings of the opposite gender? see my signature. but more than that, for some crazy reason, it is frowned upon for a born male who looks, dresses, and is told they should've been born female, to actually have feelings of a GG. And vice versa...I never knew what I felt. People don't grow up feeling like anything. They just think they are what they were born with it and run with it until they start seeing how out of place they are and then they are told things and before you know it, experiencing what the other sex seems a lot easier than once thought. possibly to the point where it was always like that and the only time I feel like a "man" is when I am doing manly things. ie:working with my hands, physical sports, things that require the strength of a man. Apart from those moments, so I'm told by men and women, I act, think and feel like a girl does. I don't know what feeling like a girl is. I just am. I know what it feels like to be very feminine. that may be interpreted as girly. I just don't care though. I am who I am and that changes nothing....and nothing changes that.

[Beverley Sims]

A lot of posts here are made to illicit replies and thoughts of others so as the poster can make up their own minds.
Of course the majority do not take the idea up.
Those transitioning do so for obvious reasons.

[Jeanna]

This happened to me the other day. I was walking my dog and a neighbor came out of his house and was looking at me in shock. I realized later he saw my moobs. I went home and looked at myself sideways in the mirror, the angle he saw me at, yep that was it!

So have real nice boobs to go with them sexy legs too. Wow you are a lucky girl:)

[Marleena]

So have real nice boobs to go with them sexy legs too. Wow you are a lucky girl:)

A female doctor I saw for my shoulder injury said I needed a reduction so they are obvious. I have no idea where they came from. Maybe I eat too much chicken.lol.

[Marlana]

Max, I think those who had boobs as children in school, paid a dear price for it in mockery. That is enough to never want them. However, I myself would like to have a nice pair all the time. I'm old enough to know how to handle it. As for implants, that seems to be a quick fix for someone that is making the transition fully. A lot of us CD's don't want to go that far so why do it?

[Sara Jessica]

I have yet to encounter a CD'er in these pages who actually followed through with their little (or big) breast implant fantasy.


I know of one:

http://www.janetscloset.com/breast_implants.htm

I guess I can rephrase my point.

There has been many-a-tale in this message board site about individuals who are clearly lean towards the CD side of things that talk about fantasies about obtaining their own breasts via implants. The desire is understandable but the bravado that comes across in most of the inquiries is simply fantasy. And of course I would not lump in those who are naturally endowed (or should I say blessed?) with these purveyors of fantasy, nor would I necessarily include the grow-your-own crowd. Sorry Ann, I have seen enough threads about au natural that I don't have high confidence that your goal will be a successful one.

So that leads us back to the original premise, that somehow obtaining implants is achieving some sort of middle ground. I see it differently. Implants are an extreme body mod for one who still lives a substantial portion of their life presenting as a male. It might sound neat on paper but in reality, very few will follow such a muse.

As for the link, while Janet self-ID's as a CD'er, she is clearly out to a point in business and perhaps with respect to life in general that implants are not such a shocking step to take. And as such, it would not be such a stretch to include anyone who is living full time, whether CD or obviously TS, to obtain implants.

[kimdl93]

Not at all, max. Every day this site carries threads from people all over the gender spectrum. Certainly, some of us are black and white thinkers...and see only a dichotomy rather than a spectrum, but we can't change how people think.

[Marleena]

I know of one:

http://www.janetscloset.com/breast_implants.htm

There are more out there for sure Eryn. I just googled and found this site: http://www.orbiclinic.com/news/breast-implants-for-men

So it is a viable option and advertised as such for others than TS women or GG's.

[barbaraclothes]

I for one would consider it, BUT,some serious family issues would probably arise.

[ReluctantDebutant]

That is not what I meant

My apologies. I guess my mind was too clouded with my own thoughts. TI read too much into the OP.

[Kaz]

Hi Max,

Love the thread, but as you read more threads you'll realise that the muddle ground is where most of us are! I choose to present as male for work and family and my main out of work and family interest... blues rock guitar! So I swing from one to the other. It took me years to realise I could work a double agenda... mainly because there was no internet back then. Now? It is getting easier.

Yes I would love real boobs, like I would certain other bits too...! But that is a one way street! :)

[rita63]

Some time in my mid-fifties I started growing my moobs and I don't know why they grew but I love them. Coupled with a push up bra I look like I have boobies. If anything I would like nipple enhancement. I think about HRT as I know some trans people doing it. But I don't want to transition, I really am both male and female inside and just want to be allowed to be both in old age.

hugs rita

[Marleena]

This is what my neighbor saw. I figured I'd prove it since this is the internet. No bra on just a t-shirt.:)

As far the middle ground and breast implants goes many of the CDers here grow their hair, get electrolysis, thin their eyebrows, get bikini waxes, etc. So I find it quite possible and likely some Cders out there get breast implants.

[whowhatwhen]

LOL I think we have the same boobs!
I suffered with them growing up but now I wouldn't trade them for the world.

I guess all my opinions against BA for males is sort of protective, I wouldn't want anyone to endure what I got growing up with them.

[Marleena]

LOL I think we have the same boobs!
I suffered with them growing up but now I wouldn't trade them for the world.

I guess all my opinions against BA for males is sort of protective, I wouldn't want anyone to endure what I got growing up with them.

Umm no ..that is MY left boob in the picture.:) The mirror stains are toothpaste before anybody asks!:heehee: And no I did not lose my head either (well that might be debatable).:D

[Thera Home]

Hi Max,
I've settled for the middle ground and I'm proud of it! Another person mentioned Stewart Rasmussen, and that's one person I have admired ever since I first read the news articles. This summer, when taking a Sociology course, I read about the Muxe, a transgender portion of the Zapotecs in Mexico, where they consider themselves neither male nor female, but a third gender, a mixture of both actually.

Ann

Hi everyone
You See, Ive been trying to tell u guys and gals about this. 1 man, 2 entities :eek:

see this ----> http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?178483-Purging............A-Reality-Check&highlight=#top

Thank Ann for bringing it up. I like you :cheers:

Thera