Passing - It's Really BS

[heatherdress]

A lot of threads express concerns about "passing". Most of us want to feel comfortable when dressed and it woud be easy if we "passed". Most of us CDing guys don't pass, and never will, because of our - size, features, voice, beard, height, build, gait, hair etc. It's simple, we are guys and spend a lot of wasted time worrying that we look like guys -even in make-up, a dress and high heels. Why do we worry so much? If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. There are assholes everywhere.
If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think? Most of us, hopefully, dress for us, not for them.
What's really important is who we are, not what we look like to others. It's our feelings that should be most important. This should be fun for us. It's just hard to remember that when we are used to worrying about being detected or being gawked at. Passing is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.

[Sandra1746]

I dress because I like the way some clothes look and feel. I also am wearing my hair long for the same reason. If I get mistaken for a woman it isn't a problem. Sometimes I do but mostly I don't, especially if I talk.

Being myself,
Sandra1746

[kellycan27]

A lot of threads express concerns about "passing". I don't read any threads about "passing". I get it. Most of us want to feel comfortable when dressed and it woud be easy if we "passed". Most of us CDing guys don't pass, and never will, because of our - size, features, voice, beard, height, build, gait, hair etc. It's simple, we are guys and spend a lot of wasted time worrying that we look like guys -even in make-up, a dress and high heels. Why do we worry so much? If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. There are assholes everywhere.
If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think? Most of us, hopefully, dress for us, not for them.
What's really important is who we are, not what we look like to others. It's our feelings that should be most important. This should be fun for us. It's just hard to remember that when we are used to worrying about being detected or being gawked at. This "passing" BS is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.
If only I can remember that myself. By the way, do I pass? Just a joke.

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important.. it might seem like BS to you, but it's not for them. Funny thing is that I have never heard anyone who can pass say it's bullshit. If self confidence and attitude work for you that's great. From your statement it would seem that your self confidence and attitude is limited to "where you go" and "who you hang out with".

[franlee]

You make some very valid points and echo some of the principle I apply to going out. But with that said the BS part would be a personal oppinion and certainly not the rule for the majority of CDers. Passing is subjective at best and important to many of us for many reasons, and when you use the points you made along with an ernest attempt most anyone can pass to a certain degree. And that is a must for many of us that live in areas that are populated with people that know you or are kin to you. For their protection as well as your own.(I'm talking about the gossip and bigottry, not so much physical) If you look like Kelly the need to be cautious is not near as crusial as it is for someone like me but it is just as important if not more so, she has invested a lot of time and effort to achieve that look even if it is natural there is still effort to maintain it. But the important thing for all of us is to recognize who we are, then what or who we want to represent and strive for that goal, no matter how high or how low it is the end results that rewards "you." Now lets burn this soap-box and touch up our makeup.

[IngeInCO]

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important.. it might seem like BS to you, but it's not for them. Funny thing is that I have never heard anyone who can pass say it's bullshit. If self confidence and attitude work for you that's great. From your statement it would seem that your self confidence and attitude is limited to "where you go" and "who you hang out with".

I may be vain but passing definitely is a part of my dressing. Granted I've only been out a couple times. At the same time it's not the end all for me. I will still dress even if I don't think I pass. End of the day I'm a man anyway.

[Voulez-Vous]

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important..

Exactly. Passing is everything. The ones who say passing is BS, say that because they can't pass and never will.

[Shelly Preston]

I am sorry but I can not agree with the statment "Passing is BS"

Yes for some it is not important but consider those who get abuse from some of the public when they are doing there best. This can be a crushing blow to there confidence. This for a CD might just stopp them for a few days weeks or months. For a TS this can have far reaching consequences as it may undermine there belief in being accepted.

It may not be for everyone but it is important.

[wendy360]

Passing is not just about I am dressed as a woman therefore everyone will think I am a woman. If I go to the grocery store or the mall in a mini skirt and a tight top and 6" CFM's people will look and I will not pass as would a GG pass wearing the same out fit.
For me a large part of passing is dressing appropriately for where I'm going and what I'm doing. If I'm going to a club I can wear the mini skirt and 6" CFM's. But if I'm going to the mall, jeans and a cute top and sandals allow me to pass.

[susangirl]

I would love to pass every time I dress but it's not going to happen. I think I'm in the 60 - 40 range on passing. I have learned to enjoy both sides of the passing issue. When a guy is checking me out as I make my way through public it makes me feel very good. I think to myself "fooled ya". On the flip side I don't mind the reaction I get when I don't pass as a woman. The reactions many people have are down right funny sometimes. I know for a fact that either way the sky is not falling just because Susan has on a great looking skirt, 4 inch heels, and a smile. I spend almost all of my time while dressed as Susan all warm inside no mater what reaction I might bring out in others. It's my fantasy all the time!!!!!!

[Ann Thomas]

I both agree and disagree with you. I guess it's the Libra in me. :-)

I do not try to pass, for those exact reasons you give that men face who are not able to or desirous for some to have all the things done, like surgeries.

But, I really do appreciate those that take the time and effort to do so. last night, for example, I was at a local support group meeting and there were several there who came back for 'alumni' visits, so to speak. Honestly three of them could not be mistaken for men, ever! They were soo gorgeous! And they weren't all old ladies. They were in their 20's and 30's and they were 100% 'passable'.

I have to wonder if you aren't a bit jealous of the kind that *are* passable?

Ann

[bridget thronton]

I prefer not to judge people and Iwould prefer not to be judged by others

[BRANDYJ]

Passing is not BS to me either. I envy those that can pull it off and venture out in public undetected. Very few of us can. But still, I try to make myself passable even though I don't venture out in public. I want to look passable for me and for my SO. I do occasionally go out to places known to accept all TG's and where some of us are regulars. But I am smart enough to know I won't pass in broad daylight doing my shopping or socializing. See, I do care what others think. I care about who I may embarrass, and not just myself. I carer about the feelings of anyone that may simply feel uncomfortable around a CD. I crossdress for me. I don't have the right to thrust it in front of those that may not be comfortable. I am not in the camp of "I don't care what others think" I care about everyone around me and how my actions might effect them. For some, not all, saying they don't care what others think is somewhat arrogant and even selfish. Yet, in some ways, I wish I was a little more like that, but i'm not.

[Barbara Ella]

We are beating up on the word "passing." It can have very different meanings to different individuals, and it all depends on their goal. For some passing is being able to sit down at a table of GG and not being noticed (OK, not very many). For some it is being happy when looking at yourself in a mirror when fully dressed, even seeing the dude. For the majority it merely means being able to go out, do something you want, and not being hassled, called out, or otherwise embarrassed.

Theoretically you are on target stating that it is really important to know who we are, but I think that sentiment goes without saying, and is held by most of us. But, just like the women you noted who don't always come up to someone elses judgement, it is imperative on each and everyone of us to go out looking the best that we can, because half hearted, or overdressing inappropriately for the location lead to increased distaste for our sisterhood, not something that happens for the GG. All the GG does is generate a bad opinion of herself, not the female species.

The key is to remember that you should have some level of enjoyment in doing what you are doing. And if you can always do that wherever you go, then you get a passing grade. And that is all the passing I can do.

If it was really BS, you would not care about looking nearly as good as you do in your pic.

Keep smiling all.

Barbara

[docrobbysherry]

Sorry Barbara! I think the word, "Passing" means the same to pretty much everyone! It means that vanilla people think U R A FEMALE!

Some people can pass all the time. Some people can pass some of the time. Some people can pass while driving by folks on a moonless nite on a back country road. And, then there's the REST OF US!

U can go out dressed as Santa Claus and say u "passed". That doesn't mean u did. Maybe u don't CARE if u pass or not? That's NOT passing either!

Because I can't pass, going out in public dressed is VERY stressful for me!

U can call it BS if u like Heather! But, it's a very unattainable dream for many of us!

[Voulez-Vous]

It's my fantasy all the time
And that's part of the problem. It's just a "fantasy" to some believing that they can pass.


I have to wonder if you aren't a bit jealous of the kind that *are* passable?

Hell yes...who wouldn't be jealous of the kind that are 100% passable?
The difference is being able to be honest that you're not passable and having enough sense not to make a fool of yourself.

[heatherdress]

Great comments, good opinions, no wrongs no rights. My intention was not create a debate about how passable everyone might be. It was not to imply that people on this site are not beautiful. Everyone on this site is beautiful in their own ways. There are as many definitions of passable as there are members. I really wanted to encourage all of our members, to feel good about the way they dress and look. What they personally think about themselves and how they feel is what really counts. Good thoughts from everyone. Thanks.

[RedBaron]

For me passing is not an issue, I have a beard after all. I am a man wearing women's clothes. I feel comfortable in women's clothes and go anywhere in skirts, without trying to look like a woman. I never considered shaving off my beard to see whether I could look like a female, I am by now completely comfortable as a man in skirts.

[BRANDYJ]

Sorry Barbara! I think the word, "Passing" means the same to pretty much everyone! It means that vanilla people think U R A FEMALE!

I agree Doc. Passing simply means the ability to go undetected by all, or most all the people you come in contact with. There are no other meanings.


Hell yes...who wouldn't be jealous of the kind that are 100% passable?
The difference is being able to be honest that you're not passable and having enough sense not to make a fool of yourself.

Heather, I for one am not jealous of those that pass. I may mildly envy them, or wish I could do it, but that's not being jealous.


There are as many definitions of passable as there are members.

I disagree Heather. Passing has only one meaning to 99.99% of us. I can't think of any other definition of passing that any of us might think is passing.

[Rachel Morley]

If anyone who might have normal eyesight discovers that we are a male dressed as a female (i.e. - we did not "pass") why should we care what they think?Well, speaking for me personally, I care because of two things. Firstly I don't know what type of person they are and they might be offended or homophobic, trans-phobic etc and they might be offended enough to give me a hard time or even want to hurt me.

Secondly, when I present as female and go out in public I try to leave everything masculine behind, including my thoughts, and I tell myself that I'm a girl, be one, feel like one, and act like one .... and enjoy it. If I get read and they let me know that they know then it kind of reminds me of something I don't want to be reminded of ... not at that moment, anyway.

[Eryn]

Passing is as much inside our own heads as it is in the heads of those who see us. I observed a 6'+ woman with very short masculine gray hair cut in a masculine style. She had a modest bust, slim hips and was wearing shorts, T-shirt, and sneakers. She wore stud earrings and very little makeup on her sharp features and carried a small black hand wallet. Despite being dressed pretty much as a guy, she "passed" fine because there was no questions in her own mind that she was female. She "Was The Girl!"

I've considered this in my own dressing. Like many CDers I've always liked the feminine end of the range, but observation has made me realize that going ultra-femme only serves to draw attention, something you don't want if passing is a concern. I've toned down my everyday outfits considerably, picking out one femme piece to contrast with something less flashy, like a floral top with beige Capris and sandals. I've tried to adopt the same attitude that the woman I mentioned above had, that there was no room for doubt about my gender. It seems to work well! :)

[Candice Mae]

Luckily I have a lot going for me, I can pass until I open my mouth. Being 5'6'' and 160, I look like an athletic girl. I do look a little too butch for my liking at times, but since I stopped working out except for cardio. I've lost some upper body mass, or at least it looks less defined.

[Michelle V]

Yesssss I totally agree, but I think the passing part is more a boost to be accepted in society, I mean who wouldn't just want to dress up and go shopping without the repercussions you mention, you said it, there are always going to be people that will stare and laugh at us, that will harass us and even become violent, nobody wants to deal with that, I think passing for all of us is not just an ego boost but a way to protect ourselves from the society we live in, May(be) posted a question about who we admire in our community, well I admire those girls that go out and enjoy themselves without worrying about what people may say, I certainly don't have the cojones for that but hope to someday otherwise they are just a decoration that keeps getting on the way of wearing really tight panties.

[rachaelsloane]

This "passing" BS is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.
If only I can remember that myself. By the way, do I pass? Just a joke.

Heather,
Your last part of the post really hits the spot. I go out regularly with a friend in SF to wine bars, restaurants and the theater all over the city and while neither of us really pass, we do present ourselves well. We get into some of the most interesting conversations with with the people we've met and on a few occasions have gone out with them on another occasion.
So yes, it is all about confidence.
Rachael

[Wildaboutheels]

Just because no one made it obvious that they noticed, doesn't mean a CDer "passed". Chances are good, that IF they are an "educated" person, Mr or Mz John Doe simply do not care so they will just ignore a CDer as making an issue of it accomplishes nothing.

Other CDers are undoubtedly THE people actually "looking for" signs that a female in public is not a real female. In Florida, where we can wear shorts almost year round, it is ever so obvious that both males and females come in an endless variety of body shapes, styles and SIZES. Many here who claim to be good at spotting fellow CDers would find themselves embarassed in Florida and would undoubtedly be "clocking" people incorrectly on a regular basis.

Some CDers aren't trying to pass and others don't care if they pass.

In the end, it simply does not matter.

[Inna]

I suppose the question at hand isn't about "PASSING", but rather "WHY DO YOU WEAR WOMEN'S CLOTHES?"

Surely noone puts on pair of pumps and a skirt to look like a fireman, pilot, bloky guy, but rather to look as closely to woman as possible......hmmmm....is that an attempt to pass, I don't know, but certainly it is an attempt at feeling and looking like one!!!! Probably somewhere within the essence of feeling and looking reside PASSING, the most sought after state of feeling being a woman if only for a moment, to be taken as a woman, adored as a woman, just simply looked at as a woman......and who in their right mind would refuse such feeling.

No, we refuse to accept that we can not pass by reason alone and that morphs into discounting its value into something annoying and not necessary.
But deep down within the psyche, if given a chance I feel safe to state, that everyone would go for it!!!!!! :)

[smellymelly]

Different strokes for different folks, contrary to what you think, some DO feel that passing is important.. it might seem like BS to you, but it's not for them. Funny thing is that I have never heard anyone who can pass say it's bullshit. If self confidence and attitude work for you that's great. From your statement it would seem that your self confidence and attitude is limited to "where you go" and "who you hang out with".

Couldn't agree more with this. if i don't feel like i can pass, then i don't go out. balancing a feminine side is hard work, and i don't want my memories with my feminine side to be people calling me a faggot or just generally being mean. i want them to be memories of having fun. my confidence is not bulletproof.

[Noel Chimes]

[QUOTE I guess it's the Libra in me. :-)[/QUOTE]

For a lot of us just being able to go out and not be the butt of everyone's joke or stare is a major accomplishment. As far as "passing" a lot of us don't. But we will accept being able to blend in.

[roby54]

When u are 6ft and 275lbs and size 12 shoes it kinda hard to pass but then being that big who is gonna mess with me. I try to look as good as i can but i just put myself in the frame of mind that i do this for me and what someone thinks does not matter.It also helps that i drive truck so i can stay dressed half the time and go in places that i might never go again.

[Vickie_CDTV]

If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do.

Passing is not made or broken just by a handful or traits, it is the totality of the presentation. It is voice, mannerisms, walk, how they are socialized, even the language and vocabulary they use. Big women are shaped different than big men, and walk and move differently than big men. A woman may have thin hair or be bald but she may still have the skin typical of a GG, her mannerisms are the same as other women her age, and her voice may be in the same register of other women her age she will still be taken as a woman. A woman can have a deep, growly voice and be tall but she still talks like a woman and moves like a woman and has the skin of a woman she will still be taken as a woman. A woman can have a lot of facial hair but won't have a beard shadow and rough skin of a man on her neck, she will still be taken as a woman.

I know a GG who weighs over 300 pounds, no one would mistake her for a man. I have known women with extremely short hair and no one would mistake them for a man. I have known women with extensive facial hair, and they would never be taken as a man. I have known tall women who would never be mistaken for a man. I have even known a few bald women over the years, and they would never be taken for a man.

In other words, of course GGs vary greatly, but in totality everything will almost always normally balance out. As trans, some of us have many physical irregularities as compared to the women above, not to mention we are used to moving our bodies different, we are socialized different (especially apparent in older women vs. younger women incidentally.) For many of us to truly pass, we require extensive work on many things, and it is so much more than just appearance or just a few attributes.

[Voulez-Vous]

For me passing is not an issue, I have a beard after all. I am a man wearing women's clothes. I feel comfortable in women's clothes and go anywhere in skirts, without trying to look like a woman. I never considered shaving off my beard to see whether I could look like a female, I am by now completely comfortable as a man in skirts.
So, WHY are you even posting in this thread?

[Amanda_Robinson]

Self-conciousness was the very first thing I learned to understand about women from dressing up.

[Kaz]

For those who want to 'pass' and try really hard it certainly isn't BS! I spent most of my life not accepting my 'Kaz' side and not trying... I was a bloke who for some reason liked to dress up. Then I started realising what this was really about and accepted it. Then it became important for me to go out. That meant that I wanted to 'not be noticed' as being a bloke in women's clothes. That led to the concept of passing and for me it isn't BS! But the pragmatist in me knows that I won't pass all the time... a) I will screw up sometimes and give the game away and b) there will always be somebody who will suss me out, no matter how good I am!

That's the deal! I worry about it a lot and have periods when I lack confidence (most of the time) but the days when I have the confidence, I do it and it works... WOW!

OK maybe I am lucky, but that luck comes with a lot of practice! And even if I am not fooling anyone at all, if I am accepted, that is all I need and all 'passing' is about in the end.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Heather,


You are so right, most don't pass except in their own mind, and that is ok.

Being Jenny for me is a matter of self-expression of a side of me that I think is my best side. I hope others also see that same thing, but if they don't, well, that is their misfortune becasue I know I am a much better person as Jenny.

Of course, reading all the comments, and looking at all the profile pics, I am just so pleased to say in my book you all pass..... as friend I know is a special community here in this forum!

[Claire Cook]

There are as many definitions of passable as there are members. I really wanted to encourage all of our members, to feel good about the way they dress and look. What they personally think about themselves and how they feel is what really counts. Good thoughts from everyone. Thanks.

Heather, I have to agree with you here not so much about the number of definitions of passing, but rather about how we think of ourselves. When I am out and about, my concern is comfort -- comfort in the way I look, and in making others comfortable with me. Confidence is a big part of this, and to echo Rachel, I do try to leave my masculine traits behind, as best I can. Whether others think I am female, or a guy who looks at least OK and is comfortable with his presentation -- and being at ease with others, I guess defines "passing" for me.

[Launa]

I always pass when I go out.

I pass 110% as a man dressed as a woman although I do just about everything humanly possible to look my very best.

[Ressie]

I always pass when I go out.

I pass 110% as a man dressed as a woman although I do just about everything humanly possible to look my very best.

I totally pass.... as a comedic transvestite from an '80s UK telly show. That was me in Benny Hill!

[Beverley Sims]

Passing is about neatness, blending in and CONFIDENCE.

[Sarasometimes]

I think passing is a necessary goal (aka blending) for very basic human reasons. Many of Maslowes Hierachy of Needs (Maslowe was a respected Phsycologist). Security and acceptance are inate needs of humans. Few want to go out and be disrespected for our appearance. My 2 cents. I know I can't pass but I strive to blend.

[tasidevil]

As Inna said, we dress, at least for me, to be seen as a woman, treated as a woman, and feel like a woman, as much as our masculine underpinnings allow us to understand what being a woman really is. Like a friend tells me, I pass at the 30 foot level. I've yet to shop in a womens boutique where the SAs didn't pick up on what is really underneath, but I have always been treated as a woman and afforded all their courtesies. So do the best you can, don't worry about the rest, and if you are accepted as a woman, then be happy.

[Persephone]

In my opinion passing is a great deal more than wearing a dress or walking through a shopping mall. It is being able to be with people and to have them simply take it for granted that you are a woman.

Yesterday my spouse and I helped another woman with a garage sale. There were several volunteers there, including a mom and her two sons, ages around 9 and 13.

Since the mom is the daughter of someone we know, we've been with them for small bits of time in the past. They are completely unaware that there is anything "unusual" about me.

We were together for a couple of hours, helping with the sale, chatting, organizing things, and then folding unsold clothes and packing everthing away. I worked with her and the boys on bringing all of the heavy boxes back into the garage.

Later in the day we all got together again for dinner. Five women and the two boys. Everyone was laughing and having a good time. I even took pictures of the boys for their grandmother.

Sometimes I would ask the boys a question and, in the manner of boys they would answer with a word or two. Their mother would say, "Why don't you tell her more about -----." Her.

Passing is the culmination of endless hours of learning and trying, and of terrible times of frustration, anxiety, and pain. But it is made up of the most beautiful moments.

"The beauties of this world are best appreciated by those who strive to achieve them."

Hugs,
Persephone.

[May(be)]

I am not even sure if I pass, but I'd like to think that I do... Occassionally. passing is all I strive to do. I don't want to be the poster child for male fashion liberation. I just want to buy cereal without being gawked at

[flatlander_48]

If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. There are assholes everywhere.

I think the difference is that most men are raised to have at least some degree of respect for women. They may chuckle to themselves or elbow their buddies, but they probably won't say too much. There is no such degree of respect afforded to us. We're like Targets of Opportunity...

[heatherdress]

I had a course in which my professor started off with - everyone is getting an "A" grade. It was a management course and her intent was to focus on all of us learning to have better communications skills not on tests. (I got an "A" but I still don't communicate well) I think everyone welcomed the easy "A", but many of my classmates lost interest rapidly and complained more about that course than most others. There was no challenge, no reason to study, no reason to prepare. I admit that part of the excitement or thrill that we have crossdressing is the challenge to avoid detection - to "pass". If every CDer easily passed, how many might lose interest or reduce the preparation and care we put into our appearance? It is part of the enjoyment, the satisfaction. It is much different dressing in your bedroom than dressing and going to a mall or a movie or a club. Even if we lived in a perfect world, where everyone was treated with respect and accepted for who they are regardless of their appearance or sexual preference or beliefs, most of us would still want to "pass" or think we "passed" when we are dressed. It is important, as so many have pointed out in this thread. But I still want to encourage those of us who may never "pass" or those of us who may be afraid to explore and enjoy what their heart wants them to experience to not hold back simply because they are afraid of not "passing". We only have one life to live and we should live it fully as best we can.

[TeresaL]

Luckily I have a lot going for me, I can pass until I open my mouth. Being 5'6'' and 160, I look like an athletic girl. I do look a little too butch for my liking at times, but since I stopped working out except for cardio. I've lost some upper body mass, or at least it looks less defined.

We are the same size, except I'm 168 on a good day. I can converse though, and do converse with GGs in fastfood restaurants without sounding too bad, at about an octave higher and avoiding the resonance. But i wouldnt want to keep it up without formal training.

So for me it is not BS to pass, it is imperative to pass. That is what makes going out and communicating and actually socializing undetected THE challenge of our existence. Me thinks

I'll know if im successful when I've been out fifty times or more and can remain under the radar. Which I haven't done, but would me more than eager to try.


I suppose the question at hand isn't about "PASSING", but rather "WHY DO YOU WEAR WOMEN'S CLOTHES?"

Surely noone puts on pair of pumps and a skirt to look like a fireman, pilot, bloky guy, but rather to look as closely to woman as possible......


Too funny, but true.



But deep down within the psyche, if given a chance I feel safe to state, that everyone would go for it!!!!!! :)
Ditto!

[docrobbysherry]

--------------------------If you think about it, women are frequently overweight, skinny, out of shape, too tall, no breasts, sagging breasts, hairy, bald, poorly dressed, loud and ugly. Do they "pass"? I am sure most feel self-conscious about their appearance, as we do. Some will be stared at, maybe laughed at. ---------------------------------------.
But, whether u laff, ignore, look the other way, or want to date them, they ALL have one thing in common! They all PASS! Most of us don't!


Passing is about neatness, blending in and CONFIDENCE.
Bev, I'm very sorry! But, u left out: sardines, marigolds, glue sticks, and Pluto, (the dog or the asteroid)! In my mind, they mean "passing as a woman" as much as the items u mentioned!

[wilt575]

I totally agree, I love dressing in female clothes and was very blessed by mother nature to be male with girl body to have very fem shape noticably wide hips and curves. So wearing girls/womens clothes and under dressing has become second nature since I got out of school, the fit and feel so comfortable and relaxing. A couple years ago I decided to take it all the way, got "B+" implants and need a bra now am a guy with all girl body but sill male but dress androgynously mostly. I live life as I feel at the moment and don't give a bother how others look at me or react. I'm not self consious in the least.

[CharleneT]

I normally don't post here, but I could not resist putting in a bit on this (all too common) subject. A few things about passing:

1. It is the gold ring you are reaching for, don't fool yourself otherwise
2. Kellycan nailed it, "I've never heard anyone who can pass say it is bullish#t..."
3. The problem with passing is that you do not know if you are, unless you are clocked. i.e., only when called out do you know if it worked or not, many people will not make a comment to you when they read you.
4. I'd suggest accepting "blending in" as your primary goal - it is way easier to do.
5. Strangely, passing gets easier the less you try, there is a zen to it.

[noeleena]

Hi, Heather ,

Im going to change track here, For me its about being accepted for who i am as a person not what i look like or wear,

Now i wear clothes from two very different peroids / times & yes down the streets here In Waimate population of under 5,000 so its a close knit community, plus in two other towns 38,000 & 15,000 people,

My day clothes are normal as womens clothes go no make up no hair just lippy & eyebrow liner & head wear, suitable for a woman.

I'v traveled some 18,000 air miles plus other transport, & been dressed in my Renaissance garb = clothes, a very out there A striking outfit not the kind that would go unnotised fact is other than every one looking at me & one lady took my pic. im seen & looked at all the time.

Now why. Do i look like a woman or not. i am a woman though thats beside the point. As my pic shows me on my left, thats one of me That Jos took.

My disadvantage is my facial features are male hey no make up will help me at all plaster may . he he ......

I talk with many airline staff the Captan's & co pilot's pastport officers & others, so i think youll get the idear .

I dont pass or blend in as many would love to , gee no fun in that how bloody boreing ,

Yet i have something that goes far beyound the clothes or how i look. it has to do with my personality what im about, manirisems , how i interact with others my differences come in other ways, that my looks dont give me ,
My body as such is pretty good in shape size & how i look from that point weight & height ,

yet those many people & many others are more than willing to spend time talking being around me with out any hesitasion that i am normal, who they will see again ,

Iv been in Austraila & with a trans group i was in charge of photography for the group of 85 people yet i spent more time talking with others out side of our group who were there for other functions i was just in my normal womens clothes yet even the men were happy being around me & with thier wifes talking .

We need to look beyound our . ((( oh dear i dont look like a woman ))) well i sure dont yet look where i go & who i see. & talk to.......

Just as a laugh im thinking i should do lots of make up do my wig not sure what else any way & see if i fail in the pass & blend in detail,,,,, hey its not my stlye its just not me , im just natural & maybe i pass just being me ,


...noeleena...

[melissakozak]

For some of us, passing is critical. For some of us, it doesn't matter. We are walking down the TG road with different goals and ideas and more importantly, psychological and emotional needs. Some of us are happy at home dressed up, and some of us absolutely have to be out and about doing what nearly every other girl in the world does on a daily basis in order to feel fulfilled. Yes, to each his own, and yes, unless you are extremely fortunate to be petite, etc., passing is, as you say, BS, but confidence holds the key. Confident girls won't get read as often, and of course, if passing is the goal, going out means blending in. Modern women rarely wear dresses, and if they do, even they get more than the occasional glance. If you wanna pass, then ya better get some jeans, a simple top and skip the press on nails and overdone makeup and jewelry. Cuz sometimes, ya gotta dress down to dress up to pass, if you know what I mean.

[Claire Cook]

I normally don't post here, but I could not resist putting in a bit on this (all too common) subject. A few things about passing:

3. The problem with passing is that you do not know if you are, unless you are clocked. i.e., only when called out do you know if it worked or not, many people will not make a comment to you when they read you.
4. I'd suggest accepting "blending in" as your primary goal - it is way easier to do.
5. Strangely, passing gets easier the less you try, there is a zen to it.

I'm reminded of Lacey Leigh's comment from "Out and About": "A funny thing happens when you no longer care if get clocked -- it doesn't happen as often" (Her emphasis)


For some of us, passing is critical. For some of us, it doesn't matter. We are walking down the TG road with different goals and ideas and more importantly, psychological and emotional needs. Some of us are happy at home dressed up, and some of us absolutely have to be out and about doing what nearly every other girl in the world does on a daily basis in order to feel fulfilled. Yes, to each his own, and yes, unless you are extremely fortunate to be petite, etc., passing is, as you say, BS, but confidence holds the key. Confident girls won't get read as often, and of course, if passing is the goal, going out means blending in. Modern women rarely wear dresses, and if they do, even they get more than the occasional glance. If you wanna pass, then ya better get some jeans, a simple top and skip the press on nails and overdone makeup and jewelry. Cuz sometimes, ya gotta dress down to dress up to pass, if you know what I mean.

My thoughts in a nutshell.

[Aprilrain]

It's easy to tell if you pass.

Step one: out yourself

Step two: see what the other person says

I have had a couple of occasions where I kinda had to out myself like when I started seeing a new therapist. I told her all about my life except that I was TS until she asked if there was anything else I thought she should know. I said I'm TS she said wow I never would have known!

I had one more similar experience and that person said basically the same thing.

If you want to know if your voice "passes" just call someone and see if they call you ma'am or sir.

[TGMarla]

This "passing" BS is really about confidence, attitude and being smart about were we go and who we are with.....

For many, though, confidence and attitude are directly related to how well they can pass when they're out and about.

[Confetti]

My doll friends, just take a look at the average genetic woman shopping it is disgraceful how many go out.
All cds are passible dressing conservative and casual, short skirts and the like will attract uneeded attention. Light make up will also look natural bold jewlery is for evening attire.

[linda allen]

Passing is "BS" ?

To some, perhaps, but not to me. I don't think I would want to wear women's clothes just to wear them. For me, it's "pretending" to actually be a female. So, in a nutshell, I'm trying to pass.

But, we all have our individual situations and dreams so if anyone has a different take on dressing or passing, that's fine.

[Chickhe]

Image saying.... focusing your camera is BS to a pro photographer. The ultimate goal for many people who are dressing is to appear authentic. Its not always possible so you might have to be happy at a certain level where you will be accepted and not cause a lot of notice. Your goal could be different though and its okay to be comfortable and not pass if you are only taking snapshots for your own personal scrapbook.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Then I started realising what this was really about and accepted it. Then it became important for me to go out. That meant that I wanted to 'not be noticed' as being a bloke in women's clothes. That led to the concept of passing and for me it isn't BS! But the pragmatist in me knows that I won't pass all the time... a) I will screw up sometimes and give the game away and b) there will always be somebody who will suss me out, no matter how good I am!

I share your view Kaz. I know I don't pass but try hard to blend. If I want to go out as I do then I accept that I will be read. Fact of life but never been a problem.

All to do with confidence and attitude.

Michelle (Oz)

[kimdl93]

For those who want to 'pass' and try really hard it certainly isn't BS! I spent most of my life not accepting my 'Kaz' side and not trying... I was a bloke who for some reason liked to dress up. Then I started realising what this was really about and accepted it. Then it became important for me to go out. That meant that I wanted to 'not be noticed' as being a bloke in women's clothes. That led to the concept of passing and for me it isn't BS! But the pragmatist in me knows that I won't pass all the time... a) I will screw up sometimes and give the game away and b) there will always be somebody who will suss me out, no matter how good I am!

That's the deal! I worry about it a lot and have periods when I lack confidence (most of the time) but the days when I have the confidence, I do it and it works... WOW!

OK maybe I am lucky, but that luck comes with a lot of practice! And even if I am not fooling anyone at all, if I am accepted, that is all I need and all 'passing' is about in the end.

I can't add to much to what Kaz said. I reached a point, not that long ago, where I fully accepted myself, grew weary of dressing as a solitary exercise and wanted to be able to go out and experience life as a woman. As a result, I go out nearly every day to do routine things and I often encounter people who know my male presentation. With them, I do not pass, but that doesn't mean I don't value passing as a concept. Certainly, I would like to be entirely undetectable as a guy in women's clothing. But I try also to be a realistic in my expectations. If I can blend in most of the time and ge read occassionally, I'm ok with that too.

[Stephanie47]

I would love to get all dolled up, go out, have a great time and BE MISTAKEN FOR A WOMAN!

[Belfast Bill]

I don't think that "passing is bs" to most girls, who go to a great deal of trouble to look as feminine, attractive and real as possible. As far as friends and girlfriends are concerned, do most of them want to go out with someone who looks like a truck driver in a dress, and have people laugh at them. Passing is a benchmark which most girls aim for, and passing affirms all the effort, makeup skills and trouble which they have gone to, and who does want to look pretty when they step outside the front door?

[STACY B]

But alot of chix need to know as far as Getting along ,,, Its all about Location ,,,Location,,,, Remember that ,, You may not get by at a Sports pub ,, But you will at the Shoe store ,,, Or maybe not at one resturant an will at another ,,At one Bar an not the other ? Its got ALOT to do with Location . Not just Presentation -- Thats important to,,,But keep with the right surroundings . Heyyyyyyyyy jus sayin !!! GEEZ

[sissystephanie]

When my late wife was alive, she would do my makeup and fix my wig so that I could definitely pass. We used to go out as 2 girls and never had any problems. After she passed away 7 years ago, I decided to forget the makeup and wig and just go out dressed enfemme, but as the male that I am. I have been doing that for 7 years now, and have never had any problems at all. and I do go everywhere dressed enfemme. The one thing that I always do is know where I am and what kind of place it is! You can call it location, or whatever you want but it is very important. And although I love children, I am well aware that they can be problems!!

[Sophie_C]

Can I get an "Amen" to the OP? Take a little perspective, people. There are some people who transition as a teenager, fully having SRS before they're 18, and there are still a few things that are not entirely "passable" on them. It is IMPOSSIBLE to simply put on any amount of makeup and clothes and look passable if there are girls who have estrogen in their veins for decades can't do it. Don't delude yourself. Accept yourself for what you are. If you're going to transition, be a trans woman, or as Jenna Talkova said, "a woman with a past." If you're not, just be a "tranny." There's nothing to be ashamed of. And, while it's a nice fantasy to just "pull it off", know it's not all that bad if you don't, so long as you're honest about it. Look at my prior posts with references to "my transsexual summer" for more...