Online dating advice needed

[Amy R Lynn]

Ok ladies! I need your advice here. I'm on OKcupid.com. I've had some good luck there. I know I just got out of a relationship, but I want to try again. So.... I have updated my profile. I added a section about crossdressing... I am thinking that if I put this out there up front, and they still want to talk to me, then that awkward part will be out of the way. I'm very nervous of someone finding me that knows me though. I don't have any pictures of Amy, just Rob (that's me). Here is my Self Summary. What do you think? Suggestions?

My Self Summary:
I am a single father of two boys ages 6 and 8. They live with me and are my first priority. My friends have told me that I am one of the most easy going guys that they know. I like going hiking in almost any weather, I enjoy camping, fishing, snowboarding, and golf when I can find the time. My ideal vacation includes a beach. I love going to the beach!

I also enjoy going to see live music. I recently got back into going to concerts. I hadn't been to a live concert in a long time. I forgot how much fun they are!

I have two college degrees. I have an Associates degree in Computer Information Systems (Programming spec) from the University Of Akron (Go ZIPPY U!). I also have a Bachelors degree in Information Technology from the University of Phoenix. I currently have a job as a systems admin in a fortune 500 company.

I do not conform with the bounndaries of gender roles. I do like to dress up in women's clothes from time to time. Its not something that I want to do 24x7. I have no plans on becoming a woman. I'm very happy being a man. I just like to explore my feminine side from time to time. This is something that I have tried not to do, but always find myself going back to doing. I have come to terms with it, and am very comfortable with it now. It gives me peace. If you have to ask if I'm gay because of this, you need to do some research and educate yourself. I am not attracted to men at all. Most cross dressers are not gay. I like everything about women! Not so much about men. If this is something that offends you or you can't deal with, I'm sorry for you. This is something that is part of me. Not accepting this would be not accepting me. So... if you have questions please ask me! Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!

[Amy Lynn3]

By the way I love your name... Online dating is something I do, as well and I am even om OKC. I do find other sites much better than OKC and will recommend one, because they have a profile review section. They help construct your profile, so you get the most bang for you buck.
The site is the largest of all the other sites put together and it is free as well. I don't think CDC likes for us to share addresses, but you can send me a message and I will name the site, however, if CDC will allow it, the site is plenty of fish.

[BRANDYJ]

Hi Amy, I think you did a good job of writing your self summary. The only line that didn'y hit me right was this one: If this is something that offends you or you can't deal with, I'm sorry for you.

I would have said: If this is something that offends you or you can't deal with, we both lose.

Just my thoughts. I don't want to tell any GG that I feel sorry for them not being able to accept or understand anything about gender roles.

Good luck with it.

EDIT: Amy suggests Plenty of Fish. I don't because of the way the mods there will either delete you with no warning, or they will put you on suspension. I have heard of some CD'ers profiles being deleted for no reason other then the mod or mods apparently do not like CD'ers. I left that site alone with a whole group of unhappy friends and acquaintances that were delt with poorly. We found Date Hookup to be a much better site in so many different ways
Some of us are still there (date hookup) even though we met our SO's and no longer date. Plenty of Fish frowns on that. My profile simply says I have found my love and am there just for friends.

[Amy R Lynn]

Thanks Brandy! I like that... I really don't want to feel sorry for anyone, and it is both of our loses. Good call

I tried POF in the past and have not been impressed with the site at all. I've even tried EHarmony.com.... Seems to be a very conservative site. I had zero luck there. It was really hard to browse the profiles and get a good feel for who they are. I like OK Cupid because of all the questions that you can (don't have to) answer. Some of the questions give you a good idea about who the person is. Drugs is a big one for me. I won't date anyone that does drugs. Want nothing to do with them.

I will have to try date hookup.... Thanks!

Amy Lynn3

[kimdl93]

well, its honest. I don't know what more to say than see how it goes. Maybe it will work - maybe it won't. There's only one way to find out.

[avant1465]

Amy: I'm with Brandy... that some of your text is a little confrontive-sounding.... and I would remove all of this: "...It gives me peace. If you have to ask if I'm gay because of this, you need to do some research and educate yourself. I am not attracted to men at all. Most cross dressers are not gay. I like everything about women! Not so much about men. If this is something that offends you or you can't deal with, I'm sorry for you...."

Good luck. I "found" the lovely woman who I date on Matchdotcom.... no mention of CD beforehand... but told her almost immediately when we started dating... and it/she/we have had a great time together.... for almost a year, now....

[Tracii G]

I was on Hot Or Not for a while and a few local guys/girls clicked on me we went out a few times.
I didn't hide I was TG and still got date offers a lot.
Most figured it out by my key words like TG TS CD.
Had a few dates enfemme with guys and girls too made some nice friends thru that site

[ReineD]

Well, if I were single I'd date you. :)

As a GG whose children are grown (I'm much older than you :p), the attraction would be to the fact that you are raising two young boys on your own, which in my eyes means that you are a sensitive, nurturing person, who is also responsible. And you're attractive! You also have a technical side which I would find attractive too. The dressing? Meh! You are quite clear that you do not want to be a woman, you enjoy being a male, and you are not gay, so if I hadn't had any exposure to this community, I might be intrigued.

The only observation I have about your wording, is that I sense just the tiniest bit of defensiveness over being perceived gay, or enjoying the exploration of your feminine self and if you remove this, I think you will attract even more prospective dates. I took some liberties (if you're not interested, PLEASE just ignore what follows), and I've slightly reworded what comes after, "It gives me peace."

"Many people believe that men who explore their feminine sides are gay. You need to know this is a stereotype and most cross dressers are not gay. I am not attracted to men at all and I'm very much into women! I understand if this part of me will offend some of you, and if this is the case, I am sorry that we won't get the chance to know each other. But, this is something that is part of me (a rather fun part of me) and I would wish any potential partner to accept all of who I am. So... if you have questions please ask me! Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!

[UNDERDRESSER]

Well, if I were single I'd date you. :)

As a GG whose children are grown (I'm much older than you :p), the attraction would be to the fact that you are raising two young boys on your own, which in my eyes means that you are a sensitive, nurturing person, who is also responsible. And you're attractive! You also have a technical side which I would find attractive too. The dressing? Meh! You are quite clear that you do not want to be a woman, you enjoy being a male, and you are not gay, so if I hadn't had any exposure to this community, I might be intrigued.

The only observation I have about your wording, is that I sense just the tiniest bit of defensiveness over being perceived gay, or enjoying the exploration of your feminine self and if you remove this, I think you will attract even more prospective dates. I took some liberties (if you're not interested, PLEASE just ignore what follows), and I've slightly reworded what comes after, "It gives me peace."

"Many people believe that men who explore their feminine sides are gay. You need to know this is a stereotype and most cross dressers are not gay. I am not attracted to men at all and I'm very much into women! I understand if this part of me will offend some of you, and if this is the case, I am sorry that we won't get the chance to know each other. But, this is something that is part of me (a rather fun part of me) and I would wish any potential partner to accept all of who I am. So... if you have questions please ask me! Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!

Ooooh! Nice re-wording, If I needed to go on dating sites, I'd be stealing that!

[Dee Baker]

In a word Brilliant. I am single again and now thinking about wordsmithing my profile.

[Amy R Lynn]

Well, if I were single I'd date you. :)

As a GG whose children are grown (I'm much older than you :p), the attraction would be to the fact that you are raising two young boys on your own, which in my eyes means that you are a sensitive, nurturing person, who is also responsible. And you're attractive! You also have a technical side which I would find attractive too. The dressing? Meh! You are quite clear that you do not want to be a woman, you enjoy being a male, and you are not gay, so if I hadn't had any exposure to this community, I might be intrigued.

The only observation I have about your wording, is that I sense just the tiniest bit of defensiveness over being perceived gay, or enjoying the exploration of your feminine self and if you remove this, I think you will attract even more prospective dates. I took some liberties (if you're not interested, PLEASE just ignore what follows), and I've slightly reworded what comes after, "It gives me peace."

"Many people believe that men who explore their feminine sides are gay. You need to know this is a stereotype and most cross dressers are not gay. I am not attracted to men at all and I'm very much into women! I understand if this part of me will offend some of you, and if this is the case, I am sorry that we won't get the chance to know each other. But, this is something that is part of me (a rather fun part of me) and I would wish any potential partner to accept all of who I am. So... if you have questions please ask me! Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!

Age is only a number to me! Thank you for the encouragement and flattering words! I can only hope to meet a GG that is open minded and intelligent as you.

I love the wording that you supplied! That is great! It gets right to the point of what I mean, and does not seems as deffensive as what I had. I'm going to try it out and see how it goes. Thank you so much!

[Silmaril]

I think this is a really bold approach, and I like it. I also really like the rewording Reine offered.

Here's my two cents: When I read the line "I have no plans on becoming a woman," for some reason it struck me as if it were saying "at this time." I suggest removing all reference to plans just to take any confusion off the table. Here's a rephrasing of that content for you to *consider* ...i.e., this is only a suggestion:

"Its not something that I do 24x7; I just like to explore my feminine side from time to time. I'm very happy being a man."

Just a thought. Keep us posted as you go where no man has g ...errr, where no woman has gone before.

[Amy R Lynn]

That does make sense. Why mention it at all if it is not an option.

[Jenniferathome]

While honest, I think you might as well say you have a contagious disease. It is too easy to pass this over and not "deal" with any complications. I'd save the crossdressing topic for the third date

[Silmaril]

I think you might as well say you have a contagious disease.

That may be true...which may actually be the point. If you *did* have a contagious disease, wouldn't it be most ethical--and save you a lot of trouble down the line--if you just said so in the first place? Putting the message out there from the start is clearly not a foolproof strategy. But I think it's worth trying and seeing what results you get. It does have *some* advantages.

[ReineD]

I love Simaril's edit! :) So now, from the top:

My Self Summary:
I am a single father of two boys ages 6 and 8. They live with me and are my first priority. My friends have told me that I am one of the most easy going guys that they know. I like going hiking in almost any weather, I enjoy camping, fishing, snowboarding, and golf when I can find the time. My ideal vacation includes a beach. I love going to the beach!

I also enjoy going to see live music. I recently got back into going to concerts. I hadn't been to a live concert in a long time. I forgot how much fun they are!

I have two college degrees. I have an Associates degree in Computer Information Systems (Programming spec) from the University Of Akron (Go ZIPPY U!). I also have a Bachelors degree in Information Technology from the University of Phoenix. I currently have a job as a systems admin in a fortune 500 company.

I do not conform with the boundaries of gender roles. I do like to dress up in women's clothes from time to time. Its not something that I do 24x7; I just like to explore my feminine side. I'm very happy being a man. This is something that I have tried not to do, but always find myself going back to doing. I have come to terms with it, and am very comfortable with it now. It gives me peace. Many people believe that men who explore their feminine sides are gay. You need to know this is a stereotype and most cross dressers are not gay. I am not attracted to men at all and I'm very much into women!

I understand if this part of me will offend some of you, and if this is the case, I am sorry that we won't get the chance to know each other. But, this is something that is part of me (a rather fun part of me) and I would wish any potential partner to accept all of who I am. So ... if you have questions please ask me! Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!

Hope you're OK with us taking liberties with your copy! :D

[heatherdress]

Amy - A+ for honesty. But you are going to scare most potential dates away. You have to ask yourself, why would someone want to go out with me after reading my profile. Here are some red flags:

1. Two sons living with you who are your "first priority". - What will your date think? She will be your second priority? Also, how much time will you have for her if they are living with you? Better to just mention you are a father with two terrific sons.
2. You like going hiking, camping, fishing, snowboarding, and golf. Great but not on the top of the list for most women. Better to list your traits (e.g - sense of humor, sensitive, fun loving, caring, generous). Maybe list a lot of things that would be fun for most women (e.g. - holding hands, a good movie, beautiful summer nights, trying new things together, dining out, etc).
3. Your love of concert music is great. But when you add " I recently got back into going to concerts. I hadn't been to a live concert in a long time. I forgot how much fun they are!" - it makes someone wonder why you would not do something you thought was fun. I suggest you delete everything after "I also enjoy going to see live music".
4. As much as you want to be open, I strongly recommend you not post all of your feelings about gender roles, cross dressing and sexual preference. It is going to scare away even the most open minded potential dates. It seems like your crossdressing is more important to you than a girlfriend would be. You should instead try to portray yourself as a "sensitive, confident, open-minded, accepting and non-judgemental person" - and is seeking someone with the same traits.
5. Finally, your closing is another red flag for potential dates. "Even if you aren't interested in dating me, I would love to talk!" - sounds desperate. You want someone to call you even if they don't want to date you? You need to sound strong and confident. I recommend you delete all those words.

Once again, I understand your honesty, but if you want more opportunities to meet someone who is going to accept you - focus on your heart, your character, your positive traits, your sensitivity, your own acceptance of others. Good luck.

[nini]

This is a consious question....

I met my ex-partner through a dating site. He didn't mention his CDing in his profile and I'm not sure if I would have dated him had he stated so. I'm open minded, not easily put off, but it is something I didn't know much about, and I'm glad he told me what is was, what it means to him and pointed me to this website so I could find out more. I'm glad he introduced me to CDing and that part of his life so to speak and I'm glad I got to know him better first, before he told me. We were dating for a couple of months already, before he told me. He is a father too, but his son doesn't know. Most of the people he knows don't know. So that might be different, he isn't out in the open really. He feels it is a secret, maybe he is in a different acceptance phase. Anyway, bottomline: I'm glad he told me in person, after we got to know each other and felt a connection. A little sooner would've been nice :) But I understand his anxiety.

Just saying: there is something like being too open and honest before you meet. Especially with online dating. Some things are conversation topics, like stuff that has happened in your life and so on. It is something you are obviously very comfortable with and that is great! It might scare of a great woman who will accept CDing but has no clue what it is and that there is a huge community of CD-ers. I'm not saying you should hide it, but GGs who have no clue this community exists and what it means to CD, you might want to introduce them more carefully, especially if you are dating them. It is one thing to know your guy had a feminine side, but most of the women I know, I'm sorry to say, might accept this if they knew after dating you a while, but won't write on your profile.
On the other hand, I can imagine you don't want to date with someone that potentially doesn't accept you feminine explorations as you called them :)
Not sure what I'm trying to say, I just hope you find a great life partner! So sound like a really nice guy!


I guess I'm hinting I would keep it to yourself for a few dates and when you feel that connection, tell her. Not because you are ashamed or anything, but to be able to get to know each other slowly, step for step.

[nini]

I have to say, heatherdress, I don't agree with your number 2.
It is wildly refreshing to see a guy state he likes outdoor sports, I would go with Amy in a heartbeat. Yes, there are women who love the outdoors and don't care much about dresses and high heels (I know this is hard to believe, but we GG's don't want to walk around in heels all the time :)) Sure, you have a point, I would maybe mention some of the stuff you mention. But so many men do. I rather read an honest profile, someone who knows who he is and what he likes. Same goes for number 3. Amy has two sons and you are raising them alone. Chapeau! I'm sure you didn't have time to go to concerts, I'm glad you are making time again now.
Must agree with number 1, your sons are your number one priority, sure, I understand. But what heatherdress says: where does that leave me, us... Maybe you can rephrase it a little? This is great to talk about when dating, I'm sure you'll talk about your boys and so on.

[Amy R Lynn]

I took all of your sugesstions. Thank you all! I had to really think about putting the cross dressing part in my profile. While I think it would help weed out the ones that would not be ok with it, it could possibly scare off the ones that could be ok with it. So... I decided to pull that reference out.

Heather, I did take some of your sugesstions. I removed the part about my kids being my first priority. I think that should be a given anyway. Or at least it should be for anyone who can appreciate my situation as a single father.

Reine,
I love your insight and your wisdom with all of this. You truly are a wonderful ally to have! I just don't think I'm ready to put myself out there in the public eye like that yet. I had to re-evaluate what would happen if someone came across my profile and told everyone that I know. It would not be the way that I would want most people to find out about Amy. So, after much personal debate I pulled that section. Thank you for your helpful sugesstions though!

XoXo,
Amy

[Silmaril]

Arrgh!! Our best work, on the cutting room floor again. I can't speak for Reine, but I don't see how I'll ever recover from this... :heehee:

It's not an easy decision: to put oneself right out there. I'm not sure *I* could do it. Best of luck to you in this, Amy! I'll be out here rooting for you. Drop us a line now and then to let us know how it goes.

[ReineD]

I just don't think I'm ready to put myself out there in the public eye like that yet. I had to re-evaluate what would happen if someone came across my profile and told everyone that I know.

I hadn't thought of that. :facepalm:

I agree, if you go on major dating sites, people look for potential partners locally and there is a risk you would be recognized .... if you show your face. But if you don't, then the chances of meeting someone are limited.

Well, at least you have some fodder for further communication, once a potential date contacts you ... if you decide to tell her before the first meeting.

Oy! I'm glad I'm not looking for partners. I don't think I'd be able to handle it!



... on the other hand, if I ever do become single again, I know where I can go to get a bunch of people to help me edit my copy. lol

[Ressie]

Removing the CD part was probably for the best. I was gonna suggest cutting it down to: "I cross dress part time" without all the extra explanation. I think Jennifer is right about waiting until the 3rd date. But how you tell at that point is crucial too. If CDing is handled as a fun part of you, I think it will go over better.

The thing is, just because you get a date from this doesn't mean you'll like the person enough to share your deep secrets, no matter what they are. If you make it to the 3rd date, there must be some mutual attraction that could go somewhere.

[Amy R Lynn]

It has definitely given me some material on how to talk about it. I will certainily keep you all posted on the dating scene.

[kimdl93]

.... if you show your face. But if you don't, then the chances of meeting someone are limited.


Its been a long time since my wife and I met via MATCH.com But I can say that back then at least, having a picture made a significant difference in the number of individuals who contacted me....and ultimately in meeting my wife. I wasn't as explicit as you are about my gender ID...and probably wouldn't have been at that stage in meeting people. I dated several women and only met one that I felt strongly enough about to open up about this. I don't think you begin dating by putting everything on the table...rather, you get to know a number of people and screen for those that you want to be more intimately familiar with. Then you need to say more.

[ReineD]

I have to admit that being a member of this forum and participating to the extent that I do, sometimes I lose sight of how it is in the real world. Since I wouldn't think twice about dating someone who is gender non-conforming (and most of the GGs that I talk to here stay in marriages with gender non-conforming husbands), I guess I sometimes lapse into thinking that most other GGs would find it no big deal.

I agree with Heatherdress, Nini, & Kim though, after reading their posts and being brought back to reality. It is best to develop an emotional connection with someone first, before telling. This is how it was with my SO and I. I knew him for some time before our relationship reached the next level and he told me about the CDing.

[Ressie]

It is best to develop an emotional connection with someone first, before telling. This is how it was with my SO and I. I knew him for some time before our relationship reached the next level and he told me about the CDing.

Ah yes, but what if it turns out the woman doesn't like the idea of crossdressing, but other than that she seems to be the one? At that point, us CDs have to make a hard decision.

[ReineD]

It's tricky, deciding when to tell. Hopefully it is when feelings begin to deepen enough on both sides and the GG is interested enough in the CDer to want to learn more, even if she is a little shocked. If she doesn't go for it, then there hasn't been too much investment in the relationship and they can each move on, relatively unscathed. But certainly the disclosure should happen before their relationship has become so enmeshed as having reached the point of wanting to get married (or living together) or worse, after having gotten married.

Or ... if a CDer is open enough about the CDing to friends, family, and work, then it might be a good idea to say something about it in a dating profile. I guess it all depends on the size of the closet and also the milieu the CDer lives in and the progressive values of his friends. I imagine it would be more difficult to do this if a person lives mostly among people who have rather traditional gender views.

[nini]

I knew already that my SO was hiding something. Maybe I have a radar for this, but I knew there was something. And later he admitted he had wanted to tell me so many times before. I'm glad we got to know each other first. And yes, maybe you'll tell someone you're in love with and they're horrible about it. But not telling is not solving that.
I guess it is as with all people who meet someone new: can you really accept the other person for who they are? And yes, maybe someone has done jailtime etc., etc.. We all have our crosses. For some of you CDing might feel like a possible dealbreaker :) For me it would be other stuff :) What I'm trying to say is, we all have our secrets and stuff that has happened. Let's hope we have accepted them and have grown from them and let it be an addition to our relationship, instead of perceiving it a possible dealbreaker.

I believe that the right person for you is someone you can be yourself with (and vice versa) and someone you accept and accepts you. And no, that doesn't mean you have to agree on everything or can't want different things. Of course not! But a great relationship is one where you can explore, communicate and love one another. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work out. But I still believe that every relationship will have brought you something, great lessons to be learned in all encounters.

Do what feels right, Amy, that's the only advice I can give you and have fun! Better to regret what you did than what you didn't do :)

And yes, please, keep us posted! Hope you meet a great date!!

[ReineD]

I knew already that my SO was hiding something. Maybe I have a radar for this, but I knew there was something.

(I think it's called a woman's intuition). :)

[Amy R Lynn]

If we're not having fun, then we are doing something wrong! When I told her and she didn't accept it, I really was sad, but I knew that we could still be friends. So. I at least have a good friend now.

And I will continue doing what feels right! Thank all!

[JenniferR771]

Good advice. Amy, be prepared to have her search online for your background. She may want to know of any criminal history, stretches in the mental ward and so forth. I am not sure if this site would show up--depends on the searching method and search company she might eventually hire, I suppose.

And don't forget the most important item: mention that you have a stable job and adequate money; don't exaggerate, but maybe "well fixed". And if curvy is acceptable--say so. If she has kids--is that OK?

[jsunic_1978]

im totally open!! i prefer to be alone all of my life, rather to hide a part of me thats ME if a woman cannot give me the chance to be manly, nor see how fair i really am, then shese just MEAN I dont have to be a woman in bed of course. 90 percent of the time anyhow, when women find out, THEY DON'T ACCEPT AT ALL, then we lost a friend to.

[jsunic_1978]

Also, Im looking to date Tg and bi women. Straight women may become good friends if they just give us a chance.

[Elsa Larson]

I'm on OKCupid as a woman seeking men and out myself as T in my profile. I have heard from a few nice men and a lot of scammers. I have contacted several local tall men who have politely refused my advances. And I have exchanged messages with some interesting local bisexual women.

I am also on two other free dating sites (including PoF) as a man seeking women. Since I started living full-time as a woman, I changed my profile and pictures on those sites and have gotten some nice messages from women.

I am also on a site specifically for people who want to meet tgirls. The results are about the same as OKCupid.