50 Shades of Grey

[Jayne1963]

Hi, to all those who have read the above trilogy, I have just completed the final book and it got me thinking what if Christian Gray had been a crossdresser rather than into Bdsm. Would the book have had the sane impact on the female readers? I don't see any difference to what my crossdressing partner does to Chritian Gray's fetish! What if he'd introduced the feeling of silk and stockings etc during their escapades, would he have been seen as the sex god that he is perceived as?

[kimdl93]

Good question. One would think that there might have been a foray into CDing, since it's fairly common in the BSDM community. I have not felt compelled to read these ...not much of a non-fiction reader. I've been curious about the reception given to what has been characterized as mommy porn. Was there more to them?

[Jayne1963]

I wouldn't recommend reading them , not a great read really and yes they are quite " mummy porn ". However, my point is if the main subject was more about the lead character being a crossdresser than into Bdsm would the female community have reacted in the same way?? Before this book , bdsm was considered for perverts and weirdo, but now it seems acceptable even by the staightlaced females that i know. Maybe you do need to read the books to understand my point.

[suzy1]

My sister-in-law read these books and has talked about little else for the last week.
I am now trying to analyse why?

And why have these books been such a success?
Do they perhaps tell us something about the repressed sexual needs of people?

[LilSissyStevie]

I haven't read the books but considering the high rate of sexual dysfunction among CDs, I imagine the story would have been pretty boring if Christian Grey had been a CD. Methinks the alpha-male was the better choice.

As an aside, I went to Costco not long ago and right beside the huge pile of 50 Shades books was a pile of Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy. As I recall, these books were, in addition to straight BDSM, full of gay and lesbian BDSM couplings. That was an eye opener. It doesn't get anymore mainstream than Costco.

[Tracii G]

Not into all that kinky stuff so I'll pass.

[kimdl93]

I wouldn't recommend reading them , not a great read really and yes they are quite " mummy porn ". However, my point is if the main subject was more about the lead character being a crossdresser than into Bdsm would the female community have reacted in the same way?? Before this book , bdsm was considered for perverts and weirdo, but now it seems acceptable even by the staightlaced females that i know. Maybe you do need to read the books to understand my point.

I did understand your question, but perhaps I could have responded more directly. My guess is that if the readers were looking for an "alpha male" fantasy, surrendering vicariously to this sexually controlling individual, they probably wouldn't have been as interested in a protagonist who feminized himself or was feminized. Kinda runs counter to the theme.

[whowhatwhen]

As an aside, I went to Costco not long ago and right beside the huge pile of 50 Shades books was a pile of Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy. As I recall, these books were, in addition to straight BDSM, full of gay and lesbian BDSM couplings. That was an eye opener. It doesn't get anymore mainstream than Costco.

I remember reading that gay erotica was very popular amongst women.
Just like how some men like girl/girl, some women like guy/guy.

That and such hilarious titles like "Hot Cargo" and "Murder Most Gay".

[audreyinalbany]

Let me preface this by saying: I haven't read them either. But they ARE popular amongst the women I know. i think the point is, though, not that there are a lot of middle-aged, middle class women who are secretly into bondage, but rather the whole point of the trilogy (as I understand it from conversations with my wife and others) is that the woman protagonist in the story REDEEMS the Christian Gray character who is into bondage. She SAVES him. Once he finds 'true love' with her, he no longer needs the BDSM. In essence it's not unlike most of the cheesy romance novels out there that women have been reading for years (the 'bodice rippers' as it were), only it's a little more explicit

[Rachel Newark]

Let me preface this by saying: I haven't read them either. But they ARE popular amongst the women I know. i think the point is, though, not that there are a lot of middle-aged, middle class women who are secretly into bondage, but rather the whole point of the trilogy (as I understand it from conversations with my wife and others) is that the woman protagonist in the story REDEEMS the Christian Gray character who is into bondage. She SAVES him. Once he finds 'true love' with her, he no longer needs the BDSM. In essence it's not unlike most of the cheesy romance novels out there that women have been reading for years (the 'bodice rippers' as it were), only it's a little more explicit

Um, you might want to read them first ? He might not 'need' the BDSM, but that doesn't stop Ana responding to the lash in a very positive way near the end of book 3.

Rachel

[Michelia]

I do not seek to offend anyone with my comments. But I will be blunt here. I have discussed these books with many ladies and there is no question this is Mommy Porn at it's worst. I think it is fine for all these housewives to enhance their sex lives with a little bit of adventure...But these books are really very poorly written. See.. I am being diplomatic here and avoiding calling them total garbage...And as far at their foray into BDSM ...well I will not even go there...it is totally unrealistic BS...If you can afford to spend time reading these books then good for you. I do not have that kind of time on my hands....

[LilSissyStevie]

Now that I think of it, it might be more interesting to ask - what if the roles were reversed? - he was the sub and she was the Domme. Would the books still have the same impact on female readers? I don't think so. That's an understatement, BTW. Why? Nature or nurture? Discuss among yourselves.



I remember reading that gay erotica was very popular amongst women.
Just like how some men like girl/girl, some women like guy/guy.

That and such hilarious titles like "Hot Cargo" and "Murder Most Gay".

My previous long time girlfriend, before I got married, loved gay porn, both written and visual. She used to make me watch it with her. I didn't mind the sex so much but I couldn't stand to see two guys kiss. Go figure!

[Jayne1963]

I think I've been misunderstood. What I'm trying to say is, it would have been very interesting if Christian and Ana had introduced some form of crossdressing scenario at some point during the book, ie Christian wearing panties or stockings during one of their many sexual adventures, preferably at some late stage in book three perhaps. The books portray a mega rich all American, super handsome alpha male who happens to be into Bdsm, the reader is lulled into a different world of fantasy, many female friends have raved about the book and yes it is very poorly written. Would introducing some form of crossdressing during the story influence the negative view on , or would wives and girlfriends be thinking "wow that sounds sooooo sexy". As I have previously stated Bdsm was a taboo subject prior to this book but now seems perfectly acceptable because of Christians normal alpha male image. Hope this makes sense.

[JenniferR771]

According to some authority which I forgot...men respond to girl on girl porn...women respond to both girl on girl and man on man porn. I hope to read the books soon. I enjoyed Ann Rice's Beauty Triology.

[Gillian Gigs]

I wonder whether the point is being missed. I see the books as being a romance that has a kinky twist to it. Don't most romances have the story line of girl meets boy and then he sweeps her off of her feet? Are not most of the guy characters strong types? This Christian is an individual who is strong, and he has some kinky baggage that he is living with. The problem I see with the possibility of him being a crossdresser, rather than being into bdsm is that CD'ing is usually seen as being submissive, rather than dominant.

I have read that stats claims that roughly 1 in 10 women are into bondage in one form or another. A lot of romance story lines are about the girl submitting it his advances, in this book the advances and dominance are just a little more extreme than the usual. If this set of books was not meeting some kind of need, they would never have sold as many books as they have.

Some of us CD'ers are into the kink of CDing, as in fetish. Well maybe some women are into some form of bondage in the same, or a similar way. Who am I to give them a difficult time for it!

[Jayne1963]

Michelia, I read the books out of interest to see what all the fuss was about. You do offend me when you say " if you can afford to spend time reading these books then good for you, I ( Because I'm so important presumably) do not have that sort of time on my hands! Sorry for being so inferior! I don't often write on this forum and quite frankly I don't think I'll bother again if this is the kind of response I get, I was merely attempting to provoke discussion on something I'd read, I didn't expect comments like this. Thank you and goodbye. GG Jayne. X
Ps I read the books whilst on a 3 week holiday, does that get your approval?

[Persephone]

I'm about 3/4 of the way into book One and am throughly loving it! I'm not particularly a BDSM kinda girl and I'm sure that the books would leave guys fairly cold, but let's just say that the romance and the way she describes her feelings as he does things to her can create powerful feelings between a woman's toes, particularly between her two big toes!

Contrary to what some others have posted about the quality of the writing, I am finding it utterly delightful! She is able to express every nuance of her sexual sensations in ways that women seldom reveal and I love her "subconscious" and her "inner Goddess."

I don't know how the millions of women reading these books would have reacted to crossdressing episodes. As others have said, the erotic qualities of Mr. Grey depend upon his retaining his alpha-male characteristics. It only reflects most ordinary women's sexual desires and fantasies so long as he remains the dominant.

And it should be pointed out that the books also work because while she is dominated and overpowered in many ways, both in and out of the "Red Room of Pain" by Mr. Grey, she is no mousy little character herself.

If the CD'ing could have been introduced in such a way that he remained masculine and dominant then I think it could have worked. But if it made him submissive I think the books would have sold in much smaller numbers.

Apparently there are plans to make these books into movies. I can't even begin to visualize how they plan to do that! But I would hope that they have female writers and a female director, otherwise I suspect the project will be doomed.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/sandylewiscares/FiftyShadesofGreyOnsie.jpg

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Jayne1963]

My sister-in-law read these books and has talked about little else for the last week.
I am now trying to analyse why?

And why have these books been such a success?
Do they perhaps tell us something about the repressed sexual needs of people?

I think you're right, it's given the green light for ordinary normally conservative women to embrace pornography and still remain "decent" and perhaps fulfill some fantasies that they never would previously have considered due to the public perception of this type of activity being conducted by middle aged fat balding men or politicians lol! Which is why I asked my original question about maybe introducing a small degree of crossdressing in the story, would this also have altered people's pre conceived ideas of stereo typical crossdressers?

[Jayne1963]

I haven't read the books but considering the high rate of sexual dysfunction among CDs, I imagine the story would have been pretty boring if Christian Grey had been a CD. Methinks the alpha-male was the better choice.

As an aside, I went to Costco not long ago and right beside the huge pile of 50 Shades books was a pile of Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy. As I recall, these books were, in addition to straight BDSM, full of gay and lesbian BDSM couplings. That was an eye opener. It doesn't get anymore mainstream than Costco.
I consider my crossdressing fiancé to be very much an alpha male ( with no sexual dysfunctions), what I asked was if the main character had been into stockings and lingerie, he clearly is, then perhaps the author could have introduced a slight crossdressing element to the story. Mr Gray, the main character is by all accounts every women's dream, would he still be so if he liked to wear various articles of women's lingerie?

[Michelia]

I want to apologize to Suzy and all those I might have offended with my stupid remarks.

I really hate this book! But I do respect others' right to enjoy it. Some of you have known me for quite a long time and know I am usually much more careful with my opinions. This book had become an emotional hotpoint for me lately and I reacted quite emotionally, rather than thoughtfully.

So please carry on with the topic! There have been some comments that I totally agree with. Particularly those about bringing some excitement to people's lives, as Jayne and Suzy have pointed out.

[whowhatwhen]

What if the main character wanted the girl to peg him?
No, I'm being serious.

Still, if a CD element were added it's a possibility for more understanding but the world being unfortunately so conservative I doubt it would be spoken aloud.

[LilSissyStevie]

I consider my crossdressing fiancé to be very much an alpha male ( with no sexual dysfunctions), what I asked was if the main character had been into stockings and lingerie, he clearly is, then perhaps the author could have introduced a slight crossdressing element to the story. Mr Gray, the main character is by all accounts every women's dream, would he still be so if he liked to wear various articles of women's lingerie?

OK, I get what you're asking. My guess is that most women might be able to accept this sort of thing on the odd occasion and having it in popular literature might make it OK to try, but the minute it becomes a "necessity" all bets are off. Wearing something feminine as a contrast to his alpha-maleness is one thing but wearing it as and expression of some kind of inner femininity is something else. It takes a very special kind of woman to put up with a sexually dysfunctional (in the normal male sense) effeminate omega male like me.

[ReineD]

Apparently there are plans to make these books into movies. I can't even begin to visualize how they plan to do that! But I would hope that they have female writers and a female director, otherwise I suspect the project will be doomed.

I haven't read the book nor are there immediate plans to do so, but I agree with your assessment. The CDing would work with the average GG only if the protagonist retained his macho.

As to a movie, "The Story of O" (1975) had some success. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it when I was 20 :) although I don't know if the plot is similar to 50 Shades of Gray.

[Persephone]

As to a movie, "The Story of O" (1975) had some success. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it when I was 20 :) although I don't know if the plot is similar to 50 Shades of Gray.

Hi Reine!

I too had thought of The Story of O, although I did remember the book more than the film, but yes, the two do have a great deal in common. Both were apparently written by women so they both do convey a woman's perspective. And rumor has it that Fifty Shades will also have an NC-17 rating.

Hmmmmm, it might be interesting to have a GNI and show them back to back. Um, that might not be my best phrasing in this case, but I still like the idea.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Jayne1963]

I haven't read the book nor are there immediate plans to do so, but I agree with your assessment. The CDing would work with the average GG only if the protagonist retained his macho.

As to a movie, "The Story of O" (1975) had some success. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it when I was 20 :) although I don't know if the plot is similar to 50 Shades of Gray.
Exactly ReineD, and with the books phenomenal success, just imagine how it could have changed the way that women view cd'ers and what a positive impact this would have had. I can imagine the scenario of thousands of female partners thinking ummm, that sounds hot and if it's ok for Chritian Gray I'm gonna get hubby in panties! Sadly the majority of women can't imagine that crossdressers can be gorgeous hot men who are very macho in public, the publics perception of crossdressers is still you stereo typical effeminate or weirdo middle aged man. Thanks for your reply.

[Babeba]

To be honest, I think 50 SOG is only popular because it is well known that it started on teh interwebs as Twilight fan fiction porn. Porn for women has been around for a super long time, some of it involving cross dressers, some of it being romantic and sappy, some of it being racy and full of bondage. Anne Rice had a trilogy about Sleeping Beauty which was bondage-y and popular when I worked at a bookstore in high school, there are even choose-your-own-adventure novels in the erotica section. Fanny Hill is easily available on Gutenberg.

Seriously, light bondage is such a mainstream thing now it's kind of like it is vanilla. And it's been that way since well before 50 shades of grey. I don't think that book would have become such a big thing before kindles and sex toy tupperware parties... But, it does fit into the climate of today.

Now, if those passion parties featured things for women to buy their guys to feminize them, I could see this taking off...

[ReineD]

Exactly ReineD, and with the books phenomenal success, just imagine how it could have changed the way that women view cd'ers and what a positive impact this would have had. I can imagine the scenario of thousands of female partners thinking ummm, that sounds hot and if it's ok for Chritian Gray I'm gonna get hubby in panties!

Yes it would be hot for the average GG if it remained just a kink in the bedroom and he was still pretty macho!

... but, in real life many CDers prefer the passive role in the bedroom. And it often doesn't stop there. Many GGs get turned off when their husbands progress to wanting permanent beard removal, shaving their bodies all over, growing out their finger nails, trimming their eyebrows, wanting to lose muscle mass on their arms so as not to appear too bulky in girl mode, and then go on to having bigger wardrobes than their wives and becoming resentful of doing guy things around the house. :p

[Persephone]

... but, in real life many CDers prefer the passive role in the bedroom. And it often doesn't stop there. Many GGs get turned off when their husbands progress to wanting permanent beard removal, shaving their bodies all over, growing out their finger nails, trimming their eyebrows, wanting to lose muscle mass on their arms so as not to appear too bulky in girl mode, and then go on to having bigger wardrobes than their wives and becoming resentful of doing guy things around the house. :p

Have you been spying on me, Reine?

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Sara Jessica]

Many GGs get turned off when their husbands progress to wanting permanent beard removal, shaving their bodies all over, growing out their finger nails, trimming their eyebrows, wanting to lose muscle mass on their arms so as not to appear too bulky in girl mode, and then go on to having bigger wardrobes than their wives and becoming resentful of doing guy things around the house. :p

All of those things and more, only time will tell.

I remember reading in SNTMIM about the author having an issue with her husband's desire to lose the facial hair, how she would miss the "frizzle". It makes sense and I can see why women can have problems with any combination of the changes we might make to our appearance, whether temporary or permanent.

As for the 50 shades book, I was cracking up the other day when on the radio, they played Gilbert Gottfried reading a passage from the book. Without too much trouble, this can be found online, this one being particularly funny because it's interjected with supposed reactions from women hearing it on an "audiobook".

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c82_1337349279