Looking at ourselves (misleadingly ambiguous title...)

[May(be)]

I am just looking for some opinions and reflections on the current nature of our beloved forum. Not trying to make any enemies, and I am really not complaining. I know that if I don't like the forum, I can just leave. I happen to like this forum very much. I'm also not trying to be judgmental or accusatory. I hope I don't make enemies with this question.

Quick question- Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity, and whether that is the healthiest thing for cross dressers visiting this forum?

I realize that for many this forum is an escape from the masculine role they are forced to live daily. I also realize that many here are divorced from, or choose not to recognize, their masculinity. I only ask because of the inherent binary identities of many cross dressers.

What do you all think? Is this board fair to masculinity?

Oh, I left out the cross dressers who have never felt that they have any masculinity in their makeup whatsoever. Sorry girls!!

[Jenniferathome]

I see no relationship to either. The forum is a place, not a person. The forum is a repository to share ideas. I feel no "encouragment" at all. Forum members vary significantly so there is no weight pushing one way or another

[Marleena]

I don't know May, since we sign up as girls for membership. It's about femininity for the most part. I don't think we purposely put masculinity down. I see the forum as a way to learn about femininity.

[max]

Quick question- Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity

Yes, very much so.



Is this board fair to masculinity?
No, not at all.

[May(be)]

I think I should also ask whether or not it is important that this board is fair to masculinity, and if so, how can it be more so?

[sandra-leigh]

Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity, and whether that is the healthiest thing for cross dressers visiting this forum?

What? Are you saying you feel that people should be told, "No, don't cross-dress, turn on football! And put away those panties except for special occasions, they'll rot your masculinity out!" ??? Or are you saying there should be sub-forums of prominence for fast cars, power tools, and How To Improve Your Stoicism ???

It's a cross-dressing forum with an overwhelmingly MTF membership. Of course it's going to attract mostly discussion of the feminine side: there are plenty of top-notch rugby forums already and the guys looking for that sort of thing are going to go to those other places for those kinds of topics.

[max]

The issue isn't "discussion of the feminine side" the issue is hateful statements towards men and masculinity. Those the forum can certainly do without.

[May(be)]

What? Are you saying you feel that people should be told, "No, don't cross-dress, turn on football! And put away those panties except for special occasions, they'll rot your masculinity out!" ??? Or are you saying there should be sub-forums of prominence for fast cars, power tools, and How To Improve Your Stoicism ???

It's a cross-dressing forum with an overwhelmingly MTF membership. Of course it's going to attract mostly discussion of the feminine side: there are plenty of top-notch rugby forums already and the guys looking for that sort of thing are going to go to those other places for those kinds of topics.

Not saying that at all. In fact, I am not suggesting anything. Just playing devil's advocate. I'm only questioning if, considering the continuum of cross dressing, masculinity fits into the conversations on this forum of MtF cross dressing. I am seeing if this forum is inclusive of the male cross dresser who does not, in an way shape or form, identify with the feminine. Is this board supportive of a male who simply likes the feel of silk? I saw a post about a CD who said that "passing is not important to him. In fact, he does not even shave his beard when he cross dresses" (That wasn't a direct quote, just a summation). Where does he fit in?

Also, Sandra-Leigh, women can like football and rugby too.

[Rachel Morley]

Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity, and whether that is the healthiest thing for cross dressers visiting this forum?
I sincerely hope so .... and yes. If a crossdressing message board didn't encourage femininity it would not be a very good one IMO. Is that a healthy thing?.... of course it is if you are a CDer who wants to dress and is looking to embrace their femininity.

[Gillian Gigs]

Quote,"No, don't cross-dress, turn on football! And put away those panties except for special occasions, they'll rot your masculinity out!" ??? So how about wearing your panties while watching football, or better yet, while playing football! The point I see, is that we need to embrace who we are without condemnation! Does it matter whether we live within both spheres of masculinity, and femininity, I say not at all. Whether we choose one sphere, both, or the other, lets accept each other, and help each other out with love, and understanding. The only part of masculinity that I see that gets a bad rap, is mostly macho crap anyway.

[May(be)]

I sincerely hope so .... and yes. If a crossdressing message board didn't encourage femininity it would not be a very good one IMO. Is that a healthy thing?.... of course it is if you are a CDer who wants to dress and is looking to embrace their femininity.

That's a fair opinion. Thank you for sharing.

[KellyJameson]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as femininity and masculinity, perhaps they are the same thing expressed in two different ways from two different perspectives.

[May(be)]

kellyJameson, that is very interesting. I wonder if you would be willing to elaborate?

Thank you, everyone, for participating in this discussion thus far.

I think this is a healthy debate worth having. As I am just beginning my journey, I don't have a firm understanding of the balance within myself and I think this question is important for me to ask at this time.

I'll tell you this, a board about machismo would not be open to having this conversation. I think this board is full of people who are mentally healthy enough to muse on the idea. Thank you to those members who have participated thus far!

[Julogden]

In my opinion, yes, the board is fair to masculinity, and no, I don't see evidence of anyone discouraging those who identify as masculine. You're new here, and after you're here longer, I think you'll see that too. You may have seen a few postings that aren't typical of the boards in the long run. :)

Carol

[NathalieX66]

The original post:
" Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity, and whether that is the healthiest thing for cross dressers visiting this forum?"

All I know is this : I was a cross dresser at age 6 0r 7....it never went away. Now I reckoned with the cold hard facts in midlife, and finally reckoned with who I am. I wouldn't give it up for anything.

Secondly, I have quite a few friends who suffered, or should I say in a nice way, (ahem) have endured Gender Identity Disorder (GID) , and decided that transition is the best option, and it seems to work and creates a happy sense of self....certsainly better than before.

I like me. I have a female side, and it is public.......and I am happy. :c9:
Peace& love to all.

[Barbara Ella]

Sorry, but from the OP, the issue here has nothing to do with male bashing or hatred whatsoever. The simple question is whether this board is fair to masculinity. This has more to do with the relative importance and time spent dealing with each. Given the makeup of the forum, and the preponderance of MtF, the treatment is fair. Is it balanced, No. But fair does need to be balanced when the makeup of the subject group has an expressed desire to discuss one side much more than the other.

As for statements of hatred or dislike, if all opinions are not allowed, discussion will never be fair because all sides will not have been heard from, allowing those who wish to to disregard after digesting.

Barbara

[May(be)]

Sorry, but from the OP, the issue here has nothing to do with male bashing or hatred whatsoever. The simple question is whether this board is fair to masculinity. This has more to do with the relative importance and time spent dealing with each. Given the makeup of the forum, and the preponderance of MtF, the treatment is fair. Is it balanced, No. But fair does need to be balanced when the makeup of the subject group has an expressed desire to discuss one side much more than the other.

As for statements of hatred or dislike, if all opinions are not allowed, discussion will never be fair because all sides will not have been heard from, allowing those who wish to to disregard after digesting.

Barbara

Very good points. Thank you for reading closely. I posit to you, then, is this the most useful approach for a questioning cross dresser?


there are plenty of top-notch rugby forums already and the guys looking for that sort of thing are going to go to those other places for those kinds of topics.

Also, not to belabor this hyperbole, but how can we encourage cross dressing on these sorts of boards (the ones not typically accepting of male femininity)? Something tells me they wouldn't be very welcoming of people like us. Maybe that's why I don't frequent rugby boards?

[sonna]

"really" yes it caters to femininity if you look at our profiles the majority of us have masculine jobs this place helps get
away from that stress in life. now i know there are other things in life to relive stress but Crossdressing is what we do
and crossdressing and femininity usually go hand and hand.

now that being said i have no problem with people talking about masculine subjects and most of the time you can post
what ever you want the (mods) only remove stuff when it doesn't fit the rules of the forum.

so since you have the power to post what you want to talk about (and the majority want to talk fem )
hope that answers your question

[GaleWarning]

I don't know May, since we sign up as girls for membership. It's about femininity for the most part. I don't think we purposely put masculinity down. I see the forum as a way to learn about femininity.

I think I speak for more than just a few members when I dispute what you have said here, Marleena.
I deliberately signed up using an androgynous name.
I have unrelentingly coomplained every time anyone has addressed me in feminine terms (girl, gurl, whatever ....)
I am unashamedly a man who happens to like wearing hosiery and high heels.
I feel right at home here.
The forum caters for the entire spectrum of crossdressing .... infact, it enabled me to figure out exactly who I am as a crossdresser.
This forum is not just about femininity, although I do suspect that too many newcomers are led to believe the opposite.

[Annette Todd]

It would not be wise to walk into a room packed with dogs carrying a cat. Forums exist so those who share like interests can discuss those interests and feel acceptance. It is true that there exist those who wish to be contrary or to be an antagonist, but generally the threads reflect the tone and purpose of the forum. Since most of us have spent at least most of our lives as genetically male, the way we communicate will be shaped by who we are and also by the sum of our experiences. I am not here personally to discuss football or NASCAR. I am here to feel a sense of belonging - that there are others out there who share, at least, my desire to feel in touch with a more feminine perspective. Being male is undoubtedly going to show through the veneer. I am not here to pretend to be someone else. I am who I am.
I am glad to have found a forum that I feel comfortable in discussing topics that would elsewhere be...uncomfortable elsewhere. I know a lot of people I can talk to about football or NASCAR. I don't come here to do that.
As I say below. We can be only who we are... Nothing more, nothing less

Cheers

[sterling12]

Oh, I think we're pretty tolerant of masculinity. But It's has to be a very tiny minority of people who use this Forum. I don't remember anyone "whacking" Butterfly Bill, or people like that. (You too, Clayfish) So, I would have to say we are "tolerant."

Or, perhaps we just don't care! Each individual's "Journey Through Transgendered Land" is so unique, I imagine we choose to honor that, let The Other Person do their own thing, and offer advise only when solicited. And usually The Advise offered pertains more to Self-acceptance, and going forward in The Journey.

So, I will throw it back to you. What do you propose that we should do? Or, how should we behave differently toward our more "masculine" members? I have heard a very few people around here claim that, "I'm just a guy who wears dresses, no interest in femininity at all." But OK, so be it! We will honor that person's Claim. I know literally hundreds of Gurls in and around my area of Florida, I've never actually met one of these people that describes themselves that way, but I guess they aren't out there on The Boulevard.. Virtually every Gal that I meet is trying to become more feminine, and embraces The Ideal. But, if I do meet one; please give me (and others) some advise on how to treat them, and what to say. I don't want to get it wrong...if and when that happens.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[max]

What do you propose that we should do? Or, how should we behave differently toward our more "masculine" members?

Stop negatively stereotyping men and masculinity.


My wife and I were watching Project Runway a couple of weeks ago, and we came across this wonderful quote from Betsey Johnson:

"Girls do not dress for boys. They dress for themselves, and of course, each other. If girls dressed for boys, they'd just walk around naked all the time."

Negative stereotyping of men like this happens so often that nobody even bats an eye at it on here.



I assure you, TG or otherwise, us guys (girlz or whatever) are truly blind to the power a woman wields. For all intents & purposes we are controlled, 10 steps behind, clueless. It's true. I'm not complaining just stating a Fact.




Why can't "we" wear dresses?
Because in general men don't have the cahones to do something that their pal and friends would call them on. In other words they are wimps.
Logically equivalent to saying "In general men....are wimps"



There is no mystery of men.

They are pathetically predictable little creatures.




That's because men are born with 2 heads and only enough blood to operate one head at a time.

[Cheryl T]

In our case this board is not here to encourage "masculinity". It is here as a support and information venue for those of us that need to express our femininity.
It does not encourage femininity...we do that ourselves.

[bobbimo]

I love this forum and this site in general.
I am looking to find the feminine side of me and to bring it to the front.
The masculine part come out whether I like it or not, So I come here to chat with other 'girls of a feather' to get pointer on how to bring the femme part of me out and keep it out there.
It a great feeling to to be able to help others with some of their troubles too.
And to answer your question directly. YES it is the healthiest thing for this forum to do. We can nread all the Nascar and hunting stuff everywhere else in the world, but this is the safe harbor where the wonders of life come out.
Bobbi

[suzy1]

Some people might be taking life a little too seriously. And then a thread like this pops up.
Then another member starts to dissect it into little bits of sub-seriousness’s. [Is that a word?]
I am not criticising here…………..

I just put on a new dress and wiggle away.:)

[Jeanna]

Originally Posted by BRANDYJ
That's because men are born with 2 heads and only enough blood to operate one head at a time.

Even I have fallen victim to this condition lol.

[Kate Simmons]

I take any downing of masculinity with a grain of salt. After all, when all is said and done a leopard cannot change his spots, even though he can cover them with a good paint job. This Forum is about sharing and caring and a place to talk about our feelings, hopes and fears. As that is the case we basically become long distance good friends after awhile (even with those we've never met in person). I personally think of my friends in terms of who they are as a person, not what they look like or how they act. I have friends from all points on the people spectrum but the most important thing is appreciating them for who they are as people. We have a unique thing with this Forum in that we can pretty much talk about what is on our mind without judgment.:battingeyelashes::)

[Marlana]

Fine! I really had to think if I wanted to post on this one. I think this forum is mainly for crossdressers that want to share their feminine side with others that will understand and appreciate it. Some of us have noone else to talk to. I personally find few people in my position (non-supportive SO, in the closet, and not real passable).Is this forum fair to masculinity? No, but it's not required to be either. That being said, nothing stops any of us from posting about masculine comments. People come here for support of their feminine feelings. I understand that this forum is a giant umbrella, and to break it down into every category of cd'ing would be useless. If you have masculine feelings and are a crossdresser, feel free to share them, but like I said, most are here because they want to feel/or are more fem on the inside.

[Annette Todd]

Max, I think you are reading too much into Sterling's post.

I did not detect any mention of a stereotype at all. Sterling is simply saying that we all are free here to be who and what we want to be.

I think, Max, that maybe you need to examine your purpose for being here. If... you are here to contribute to the forum in a positve way and let us follow our own path, then by all means you are as welcome as any of us.
I detect, however, there may be an underlying motive for your being here. If you are hear to be a hater, then I think all would agree that we are better off without you.

Your choice and your life path is yours. Do not criticize or marginalize anyone else...

[Marleena]

I think I speak for more than just a few members when I dispute what you have said here, Marleena.
I deliberately signed up using an androgynous name.
I have unrelentingly coomplained every time anyone has addressed me in feminine terms (girl, gurl, whatever ....)
I am unashamedly a man who happens to like wearing hosiery and high heels.
I feel right at home here.
The forum caters for the entire spectrum of crossdressing .... infact, it enabled me to figure out exactly who I am as a crossdresser.
This forum is not just about femininity, although I do suspect that too many newcomers are led to believe the opposite.

You know what you are absolutely correct Clayfish and thanks for pointing your views out to me. I am guilty of forgetting how diverse this section is!:)

So let me say my post was adressing my own feelings. I have said I rather be a girl but it should not be taken as a knock on masculinity. It's just the way I feel. I don't think I have ever said guys suck or anything like that. In fact I try not to offend anybody.

But I will say that some people are easily offended (not you) thinking there is an attack on masculinity here when it is just a harmless comment. That can also extend over to every other label or group here. I don't think any of us intentionally try to put down each other or their ways of thinking.

[Amy Fakley]

you guys know there's a whole FtM section on here, and the folks that hang out in there in no way are bashing on masculinity, right? In fact, I bet if you go hang out in their forum, that you may even detect a hint or two of femininity bashing :D

What you are looking at when you come here, is a self-selected group of people who share one thing in common: they don't completely buy into the gender that was bequeathed upon them at birth by society.

It's really no surprise to me that so many of us who identify as one flavor or another of MtF might have an issue or two with our M side. I don't think that's "bashing" it's more like "catharsis" when I see it on here.

All I can say is thank God for this forum. Before I came here, I was so lonely ... so completely isolated, because there was a huge part of my life that I couldn't talk to anyone about.

Look ... if you get on an NFL forum ... say for the Washington Redskins ... you are going to see a lot of Dallas Cowboys bashing. This doesn't mean everyone in the world hates the Cowboys (though maybe they should, LOL). It means you've stumbled into a section of the internet where all the people who hate the Cowboys hang out.

you've stumbled into a section of the internet where a lot of people who don't particularly cherish their manly traits hang out (though surely not all of us ... just a preponderance of us).

[Sara Jessica]

Some of us are all good with the gender binary that exists in our society. I'm not looking to blur the gender lines so much, more like I was drafted to the wrong team. As such, my rejection of masculinity merely has to do with repressing such manifestations in my own being while maintaining my life on a middle-path. But I have also been guilty about conveying anecdotal tales about (stereo?)typical male behavior and how such observations convince me that there will be no significant blurring of the gender lines any time soon on a mass scale.

[Wildaboutheels]

MOST of the Forum regulars here [people who post] have FEMALE names and go all the way to present as female within their budget. Breastforms, wigs, makeup, clothes, mannerisms, voice etc. For most of them, their most fervent wish is to "pass" in public as a female. Some realize they are unlikely ever to "pass" and most have a need [understandable] to look for other CDers out in the RW.

For a small minority, it IS just the clothes and nothing more. Many of the "full dressers" admit in numerous threads to starting that way and then "progressing" and have no trouble stating that it will happen to everyone eventually. Some [but certainly not all] young and/or confused CDers coming to this Forum MIGHT be scared by such statements IMO. They already worry about themselves and now read that they will eventually succumb to the pink fog and their feminine side.

True, there are posts as Max pointed out that are blatant anti male but the Mods do a pretty good job with those types of things. For the most part, femininity and how to be more feminine is what is generally talked about here. Just look at the views and responses to tucking. THAT thread alone speaks volumes.

IF they had polls/surveys here, I think you would see that there are far more "partial dressers" here who don't identify as female at all than the MtF Forum would lead one to believe. The ratio, whatever it is, really doesn't matter though.

ANY member at this site is free to post questions within the confines of the rules or to join in on any topic that interests them. There is NO WAY of knowing what kinds, types and numbers of responses their might be to any question until and unless someone posts it.
Of course many of the "regulars" are only likely to respond to questions they can relate to and I think the majority [IMO] come here to [at least temporarily] suppress their masculinity.

[May(be)]

So, I will throw it back to you. What do you propose that we should do? Or, how should we behave differently toward our more "masculine" members? I have heard a very few people around here claim that, "I'm just a guy who wears dresses, no interest in femininity at all." But OK, so be it! We will honor that person's Claim. I know literally hundreds of Gurls in and around my area of Florida, I've never actually met one of these people that describes themselves that way, but I guess they aren't out there on The Boulevard.. Virtually every Gal that I meet is trying to become more feminine, and embraces The Ideal. But, if I do meet one; please give me (and others) some advise on how to treat them, and what to say. I don't want to get it wrong...if and when that happens.


Oh, I have no idea. I just thought this was an interesting thread topic and wanted to get the temperature of the room. I'll let the cross dressers who are like that answer the question about how they would like to be treated. I don't have a strong enough sense of self yet to have a preference.

[TxCassie]

I don't think "fairness" to our masculinity is a factor being considered when we come to our forum. Any emergence of our feminine side does not come at the 'expense" of our masculinity, rather, our masculinity become more defined without an expense of to our femininity. Yes, I believe this forum encourages the emergence of our feminine side. Is that healthy, Yes, I believe so. We must remember that we are "Crossdressers", we find our gender identity to be transgender, both masculine and feminine. To what degree, is different and individual as each one of us. For some, we do live a binary life, for others, our feminine side has become a more prominent, a more mainstay part of their gender expression and identity. How we merge, express, resolve our transgenderism is the journey we all must take. Would we be more masculine had we not ever logged into our forum? Would we have remained in our male clothes, lived an exclusively "masculine" styled life? Maybe, we could live a life through pain and unfulfilled desire and failed self awareness. Many Do! Does that mean they are more "masculine"? Does that mean they are healthier? Coming and visiting our forum does encourage us to be us, in the way we are most comfortable. Yes, by visiting this forum, we allow ourselves to embrace our feminine side and leave that "exclusive masculine persona", but if we have the desire, interest, awareness to dress already, what "masculinity" are you really leaving?

There is so much I can say about this topic, but I think I've gone on too long already.

So, there are my thoughts.

Cassie :love:

[May(be)]

Thanks to everyone for participating. I hope I didn't offend with my naive question.

This is my impression of the board, thus far-

(Remember, I am new here) I think the board is mostly fair to masculinity, although many of the members make a point to say how silly they think masculine traits are. I think that this board is open to people being whoever they feel they are, and won't try to convert a non-feminine cross dresser to become more feminine. It has been said that many of the members strive toward the "feminine ideal", and I wonder if the feminine ideal should include masculine traits. I have trouble defining exactly what masculine traits are, because women's liberation has blurred the female role in society so much that masculine and feminine have largely merged.

I am a little concerned about some users suggesting that NASCAR or football can't be feminine. It seems like that is a little bit of a sexist conceit of women to think they can't like football for whatever reason. For the record, I care for neither sport. I don't typically watch ANY sport.

I also don't mind being girly with you all. I like it, in fact. This question didn't come from any feeling of repressed masculinity from this board. I was just thinking about other cross dressers who might be out there and come here questioning... "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!?"

[UNDERDRESSER]

I was just getting ready to jump all over Max, and his comments, but.....


Yes there are a few posts hating on, not masculinity as such, more machismo. Which does have a place in the world. It tends to swamp out gentler aspects of peoples personality and behaviour though. Other comments on here also rub me the wrong way, those ones where anyone is being excessively feminine. Is there a word for that? I like a woman to be elegant, gracious, somewhat refined. ( in public ) But on the other hand my GF likes nothing better than to get her hands greasy fixing bikes, and I love her for that as much as how she looks in some sleek panties. What I don't like, is the shrinking violet, fluttery eyelashes, "oh please help me, I'm so helpless" act that some put on.

This forum (the MtF part anyway) is about men putting away, or losing, or hiding their masculine aspects in some way. Of course there are some negative comments about certain aspects of masculinity. Thats why I don't castigate some posters when they do the excessively fem bit. As long as the posts are not the whole forum, and there are no persoanl attacks, ( unless against yourself, which is what some of those negative comments are ) I don't see it as being a problem.

I like being male, but I want to learn to show more of my feminine side without shame or embarresment, this forum is helping in that.

[kimdl93]

I'll take the first, two part question - Part 1: does the forum encourage femininity at the expense of masculinity? While I'd agree that this is a place and has no specific agenda, I would submit that the majority of threads are encouraging of femininity. Its possible that by participating in a forum that is favorable to cross dressing and transgenderism, that we are more inclined to allow that portion of ourselves come out, literally and figuratively, than if we were not participating. It may lead individuals to seek greater expression of their feminine side.

Now Part 2: whether that is the healthiest thing for cross dressers visiting the forum? I do think its healthy for most of us to have a place to exchange views with others who share similar interests. For some of us, as you pointed out, this forum may be their only outlet for expression in an otherwise deeply closeted and painful existence. Of course, there may be a few individuals who are influenced to do things, like coming out abruptly to family, or going out in public before they're emotionally prepared.

[Beverley Sims]

The forum here would have a bias toward expressing your feminine side.
This is a M to F forum and it probably is biased favorably towards the female side.
There is a F to M Forum and whilst not so biased is still biased towards the male side.
The bias of any of the sub forums are towards encouragement of achieving a goal.
As for "hate" remarks you may interpret them as that.
In the transexual forum recently there was a strong discussion about descriptions of gender.
These were not hate but others were not comfortable with them.
An example: Men who call any one else's lifestyle a bunch of poofs. Taken from BBC comedy "It 'aint half hot mum." About a theatrical troupe during WW2.
This is an expression of a group and not necessarialy hate.
The division here is between the newer members and the older members.
A good discussion to be had here, don't spoil it by scratching each others eyes out.:)
Read carefully and respond sensibly.

[becky77]

For me the idea of masculine and feminine is a concept I have to battle with in the so called 'normal' world, here is a forum where I can be me. Everyone knows I am a man and if I say "Hey I bought a new skirt today" no one says, but your a man?
So if I put on a LBD and make-up ready for a party then I see a big Football match on and decide to stop in and watch it with a beer, i'm not necessarily going to change clothes, is this odd? It's very odd to the outside world where things are gender labelled, it's not odd to me, and it's not odd on this forum. However I can tell anyone I watched the game the night before, but only on here can I share the dressing part. It's not that we don't represent the 'masculine' here, it's more than we CAN express the feminine here.




I think I speak for more than just a few members when I dispute what you have said here, Marleena.
I deliberately signed up using an androgynous name.
I have unrelentingly coomplained every time anyone has addressed me in feminine terms (girl, gurl, whatever ....)
I am unashamedly a man who happens to like wearing hosiery and high heels.
I feel right at home here.
The forum caters for the entire spectrum of crossdressing .... infact, it enabled me to figure out exactly who I am as a crossdresser.
This forum is not just about femininity, although I do suspect that too many newcomers are led to believe the opposite.

I can relate to some of this, I'm not sure what I think on the 'gurl' thing. Do I wish I could look like a women, yes, do I want to be a woman, not sure. But i'm not a girl, i'm a crossdresser, some mixed up gender inbetween and until society realises you can't put everything into two catergories, masculine - feminine/boy - girl. I will always feel isolated and abnormal, until I come to a forum and people like this.
Perhaps someone can come up with a new name, because i'm not a boy and i'm not a girl.

Sorry, I think I went completely off topic :)

[KellyJameson]

Are children hurt by not having clear cut lines of acceptable behavior between those who are labelled women and those who are labelled men?

Is there any behavior that should be denied a man or woman because they are a labelled as such?

Is they any behavior not predetermined by anatomy that is exclusive to women or men?

People are very sensitive to injustice and this is innate in that we are constantly comparing and measuring as any parent knows who has heard the scream of
" That's not fair!"

When there are separate rules that benefit one sex over the other this creates resentment, equality must go both ways or it does not go either way and how one decides to dress their body is a fundamental right of ownership of that body.

This forum is about equality as much as crossdressing.

When I think of femininity I do not think of something specific to a woman but more likely to be experienced by a woman.

An example would be how she experiences connectivity to her environment versus a man because she has a constitutional sensitivity ( the information that comes through her senses) that is likely to be higher than a man such as the sounds she is able to hear.

The relationship between pain and pleasure is different in what is experienced as pain and pleasure and how each is reacted to.

In general the relationship to pain is different for men and women but there are women who relate to pain in more traditional masculine ways and men who relate
to pain in more traditional feminine ways.

Femininity and masculinity if there is such a thing starts with how we react to pain and what we label as pain, it is a relationship with the senses, how we react
and what we want.

Almost every crossdresser has an intense relationship with their senses because they experience a connectivity that is usually found in women but is not exclusive to women and this connectivity (sensitivity) is why they are attacked in childhood by other boys who see them as "acting like girls" because they are "feeling"

Interestingly women are at risk of being De-sensitized by the social values of equality, equality takes one thing but gives another because it is interpreted as behaving on an emotional level like a man (not showing emotion other than anger)

Just as some boys torment the sissy for being sensitive now there are girls who do the same thing to other girls.

Masculinity and Femininity is about the relationship between pain and pleasure and the relationship between us and pain and pleasure.

You can have either a feminine relationship to it or a masculine relationship to it or some mixture of both, it is a duality of two extremes that everyone falls inbetween.

It is a relationship that you have with yourself through yourself and out into the world.

[Nigella]

The forum as a whole is a support forum for the TG community, this has then been divided into sub forums. Of course you will find that in the M2F there is a degree of Masculinity bashing, I suspect that the same will go for the F2M in that there is Feminity bashing, but to a lesser degree because of membership numbers.

If you want to raise your testosterone levels and be a MAN, I'm sure that the Genetic Male forum can cater for you in there.

[May(be)]

If you want to raise your testosterone levels and be a MAN, I'm sure that the Genetic Male forum can cater for you in there.

Nigella, I am saddened by your tone and insinuation. I feel you are reading too far into my questions/ comments.

[Nigella]

Not at all, you have highlighted this forum Male 2 Female as
encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity, What did you expect in a forum that caters for mostly men who dress in womens clothing and portray being a female?

I'm just pointing out that there is a forum that should cater for those who want to encourage their masculinity at the expense of their femininity.

[May(be)]

To Nigella:

I am negotiating with aspects of myself currently. As such, in a negotiation, I believe that a compromise can be found that benefits both sides by expanding the total "pie". Are you saying that this should not be true of this forum? That it is endemic to the nature of this forum that femininity must gain traction over masculinity? Is there not space for both on this forum?

Furthermore, I asked if this forum "encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity", I made a point to not give my own experience on the topic. I didn't want to endorse the question as my opinion. Merely a question.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

[Kate Simmons]

I did like your question Hon. It was a valid one.:)

[kimdl93]

To Nigella:

..... Are you saying that this should not be true of this forum? That it is endemic to the nature of this forum that femininity must gain traction over masculinity? Is there not space for both on this forum?


I would answer both of these questions with a yes. It is inherent that a site focused on the interests, issues and concerns of MtF would emphasize femininity. Despite that, many members embrace their masculinity and engage in CDing as a hobby or diversion, not a lifestyle, and express that perspective here.

[ReineD]

My impression is that members who do honor both their inner masculine and feminine identities tend to be the silent majority, or when they post they seldom mention their masculine selves. Maybe they are adhering to the "When in Rome" mindset, or they are here as a form of temporary feminine self-expression and they indulge in all the fun. The impression is, therefore, that these members much prefer to be feminine most of the time even though this may not be true.

There are also other members who are reluctant males and who deeply resent having to present a masculine appearance at work and with their wives. These members tend to deprecate maleness more forcefully in the threads, which may be a further deterrent to the members who do have a full or partial male identity.


The forum as a whole is a support forum for the TG community, this has then been divided into sub forums. Of course you will find that in the M2F there is a degree of Masculinity bashing, I suspect that the same will go for the F2M in that there is Feminity bashing, but to a lesser degree because of membership numbers.

If you want to raise your testosterone levels and be a MAN, I'm sure that the Genetic Male forum can cater for you in there.

I don't think there should be any form of bashing anywhere. :)

[Kathi Lake]

May(be),

I think your "pie" analogy is correct. All of us are a mix of personalities, preferences and peccadilloes. It takes all of us to make a pie. Do some of us want to 'carve out' a slice that we don't like? Sure. For some, that may be male traits that we feel are distasteful. For others, it may be body modifications to more closely align ourselves with a perceived ideal. We all want to be the best person we feel we can be, and try to reduce what we feel is not in line with our ideal.

Due to our makeup, upbringing and socialization, we each have different ideas on just what is good or bad. Some see anything masculine as a thing to be feared, removed, minimized, or hidden. Others have no issue integrating what society sees as masculine with the feminine - i.e. those wearing both a skirt and a beard. Some place a huge premium on looking and being as feminine as possible - whether to merely blend into society or to fully escape anything seen as masculine depends on the individual.

So, why do we do this? The reasons are as varied as we are. For some, it is merely overcompensation. If you're trying to appear feminine, then anything masculine must be bad, right? For others, it is a matter of getting your outside in sync with what you feel inside. Heck, others may even believe some of the things that women say about us (you've heard the stories of how stupid men are, how insensitive, how shallow), and are trying to flee that stereotype.

Again, the answers are varied. In my case, this site is both good and bad. We all have heard about the pink fog, right? Well, at times, this site enables that fog for me. I do something. I post about it. I get feedback on how feminine or pretty I am, and that makes me want to post more about feminine things. Feedback loop, anyone? Obviously, that can be bad. This site is good to me in that it is one of my only sources of support and friendship for my crossdressing. You people understand me when a spouse never really could. You understand the reasons we do this, rather than thinking what the world thinks about it. Does this site 'decrease' my masculinity by making me accentuate my femininity? I don't think so. Again, for me, I don't flee or denigrate the masculine. It is a part of me - a large part. You know what? So is my femininity - however I choose to express it.

So, if your original question is does this site accentuate the feminine at the expense of masculinity, than I say yes - to a point. That point is up to the individual.

Kathi

[GaleWarning]

If you want to raise your testosterone levels and be a MAN, I'm sure that the Genetic Male forum can cater for you in there.

I thought that that might be the case Nigella, but I was wrong!
Blokey stuff is rarely talked about.
Instead, it seems we tend to post about the more risque side of being transgendered (and I'll leave it at that).
I seldom visit that forum any more ....

[JeanneF]

May(be),

I think your "pie" analogy is correct. All of us are a mix of personalities, preferences and peccadilloes. It takes all of us to make a pie. Do some of us want to 'carve out' a slice that we don't like? Sure. For some, that may be male traits that we feel are distasteful. For others, it may be body modifications to more closely align ourselves with a perceived ideal. We all want to be the best person we feel we can be, and try to reduce what we feel is not in line with our ideal.

Due to our makeup, upbringing and socialization, we each have different ideas on just what is good or bad. Some see anything masculine as a thing to be feared, removed, minimized, or hidden. Others have no issue integrating what society sees as masculine with the feminine - i.e. those wearing both a skirt and a beard. Some place a huge premium on looking and being as feminine as possible - whether to merely blend into society or to fully escape anything seen as masculine depends on the individual.

So, why do we do this? The reasons are as varied as we are. For some, it is merely overcompensation. If you're trying to appear feminine, then anything masculine must be bad, right? For others, it is a matter of getting your outside in sync with what you feel inside. Heck, others may even believe some of the things that women say about us (you've heard the stories of how stupid men are, how insensitive, how shallow), and are trying to flee that stereotype.

Again, the answers are varied. In my case, this site is both good and bad. We all have heard about the pink fog, right? Well, at times, this site enables that fog for me. I do something. I post about it. I get feedback on how feminine or pretty I am, and that makes me want to post more about feminine things. Feedback loop, anyone? Obviously, that can be bad. This site is good to me in that it is one of my only sources of support and friendship for my crossdressing. You people understand me when a spouse never really could. You understand the reasons we do this, rather than thinking what the world thinks about it. Does this site 'decrease' my masculinity by making me accentuate my femininity? I don't think so. Again, for me, I don't flee or denigrate the masculine. It is a part of me - a large part. You know what? So is my femininity - however I choose to express it.

So, if your original question is does this site accentuate the feminine at the expense of masculinity, than I say yes - to a point. That point is up to the individual.

Kathi

Very well put, Kathi.

Part of the issue as I see it is that many members have truly antagonistic relationships between their male and female selves. A lot of it has to do with life experience...if you had a rough childhood (or adulthood, for that matter) because you were "girly", you may lash out at masculine things as being painful. You can see in many posts how much some members really HATE their male self.

[Ambergold43]

Yes, I do think that this forum tends to favor the "Female" in Male-to-Female Crossdressing, even though that is really only half of the total equation. In some ways though (well, in a lot of ways) the forum is still very much Male-focused and Male-centered.

By this I mean: most of the things that are talked about on this forum, and much of the "female" or feminine images created in our avatars and activities discussed (such as waxings, nail paintings, shopping, or whatever) are from a very masculine perception of femininity. Most of the things we talk about on here are about very superficial and stereotypical representations (in my opinion) of femininity. If this forum really were ever about femininity or women, why aren't there forum discussions ever of things that REALLY matter to women, such as the issues women face around the world, such as worker's rights, individual reproductive rights, social injustices, etc.? The femininity here is really just our idealized representations of how we (males) perceive femininity and females.

So yeah, if anything... I think this forum puts certain aspects of Femininity on a pedestal, but the forum is definitely still male-centered.

[ReluctantDebutant]

What a great post. This is a topic dear to my heart. It is the prerogative of this site to be pro-femininity. That would be perfectly fine if the members of this site were a hundred percent entrenched on the feminine side, but there are many of those members who are still 'in negotiations" with themselves. These members would benefit more from a more balanced view. Not all but many here seem to put their thumb on the scale in favor of femininity over masculinity.

A person goes nowhere if they only listen to negativity but if they only listen to positivity they may find themselves very confident in trouble as well as confused as how they got there.

[STACY B]

I was JUST talking to my wife today about almost the same thing ,,, An I looked at the thread writers profile just to check the age of the writer an I was right ,, The young chix here are way more insecure that the older ones when it comes to Manly ness ,, Us older chix have alreay proven our selves to the world an dont care about what other think or say about us . An dont get me wrong cuz I already know what alot of chix will say about what I am writing ,,, They will lash out at me an say ,,, ( I dont care what people say ,,, Bla,,,Bla,, ) But thats the point ? You do ,, Becuz no amount of courage can account for life lived ,,,That comes with age an age alone ,, Travel the hard roads an the School of hard knocks ,,I ran from this an went all over the world trying to prove my self to myself ,, An once the Journey ended no one had to tell me it was over I knew it . I am a man ,, Did it all an guess what ? I am here an I still wear womans clothes an do womanly things ,, I made friends an tried to self medicate played the role ,,,Thats nether here nor there what we did in the past ,, You will purge an go on an live your life an raise kids an do mans stuff an try an forget all about all of this for a while an thats great ,, But tell ya secret ,,, If your here ,,,Your here for a reason ,, No guy would ever come here unless he was one of us ,,There is no drive ,,No payoff ,, Nothing in it for him,, But we are here becuz we are the way we are an thats it . We are people who identify with the oppasite gender ,,No matter what level ,, An you mite go for years ,,,But always remember one thing ,,,It will hit you like a ton of bricks one day when your older an dont care about all of the sterio types an labels they will put on you ,,, The only thing that you will care about is lining your body up with your mind . Regardless of the cost ,, So if you think your not a girl your mistaken ,, An your a man too,,, Twice a GREAT ,,,

[Pexetta]

Do you feel that this forum (male-to-female cross dressing) encourages femininity at the expense of masculinity

Yes - and that's why I come here.

[Kaz]

This continues to be a most interesting thread! I wrote a 'tome' a while back and then decided not to post... but now I can't resist... oh well!

This is the MtF section of the 'forum'. There are many other sections. This is the biggest forum for posts I guess because it is why most people are here... to understand their desire as males to dress in more feminine attire... and of course as has been said there are many varied reasons behind this and many different ways we prefer to express it. We also have a FtM community. Within these CDing communities we than have those who are on a journey of transition, whether that is full dressing in clothes of the opposite gender or full surgical transition, or indeed somewhere in between. A key strength of the site/forum is that it embraces a huge diversity, as Nigella has said - the TG community, and as May has called it - the 'pie'.

I have had some conversations here about guitars, and other pastimes things that are more in my male domain... just not in the MtF section? The Genetic Male section has a very different feel to this one! As does the Transmen section!

When I am in the MtF section I am looking for just that... male to female crossdressing.

But this thread has caused me to think a lot about the issues raise and has helped me in my continued understanding of who and where I am with all this. Thanks May for posting! :hugs:

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi May If it didn't Iwouldn't be here.

[May(be)]

This thread was emotionally draining for me. Thanks to everyone who participated. There were sooooo many good points made, and I hope that this thread made some people ponder, even for a moment. I think I'll stick to posting about fun stuff for a while now.

[bridget thronton]

I have seen this board treat FtM CD's and TS with civility and support - and indeed encouragement to follow the path that makes them happiest

[Vickie_CDTV]

This is a tough one... err... I know I am going to catch heck for this post... but to answer your question... in my opinion "yes". However, it is not this forum specifically by any means, but rather the M2F transgender community in general, and I don't believe it is an intentional, targeted thing. The trans community as a whole has such an incredibly diverse set of needs, and sometimes the needs of the "occasional dressing/ok with being a man" TV can get drowned out in the wider discussion. Plenty of folks in the trans community are TS and hate being male, and that is obviously understandable and appropriate given their situation, but sometimes I worry that, especially to new folks, it can be come off as being anti-male; that it might come off as everyone "should" want to emasculate themselves, being a male is an evil thing and if they don't want to emasculate themselves there is something "wrong" with them. I wish there was more of an emphasis on the fact one can be an occasional dresser, and still like being a guy, and that is fine way to be. Again, it is not someone's fault or such, it is just so difficult to meet the needs of such an incredibly diverse group.

If I remember right, years ago some Tri-Ess groups held en drab "guys night out" events in addition to monthly dressed meetings, to encourage members to meet and get to know each other as men in addition to knowing each other in their femme identities. I always thought this was a great idea, and wish other groups did something similar. I am not ashamed of being male, and have no problem going to events en drab as well as en femme. As far as I am concerned, people can come and meet both sides of myself.

[STACY B]

This is a tough one... err... I know I am going to catch heck for this post... but to answer your question... in my opinion "yes". However, it is not this forum specifically by any means, but rather the M2F transgender community in general, and I don't believe it is an intentional, targeted thing. The trans community as a whole has such an incredibly diverse set of needs, and sometimes the needs of the "occasional dressing/ok with being a man" TV can get drowned out in the wider discussion. Plenty of folks in the trans community are TS and hate being male, and that is obviously understandable and appropriate given their situation, but sometimes I worry that, especially to new folks, it can be come off as being anti-male; that it might come off as everyone "should" want to emasculate themselves, being a male is an evil thing and if they don't want to emasculate themselves there is something "wrong" with them. I wish there was more of an emphasis on the fact one can be an occasional dresser, and still like being a guy, and that is fine way to be. Again, it is not someone's fault or such, it is just so difficult to meet the needs of such an incredibly diverse group.

If I remember right, years ago some Tri-Ess groups held en drab "guys night out" events in addition to monthly dressed meetings, to encourage members to meet and get to know each other as men in addition to knowing each other in their femme identities. I always thought this was a great idea, and wish other groups did something similar. I am not ashamed of being male, and have no problem going to events en drab as well as en femme. As far as I am concerned, people can come and meet both sides of myself.





You STOP an think for a second ? What Woman would NOT want to be able to switch at WILL ? Thats why I agree with you a 100% ,,,Hell I love being BOTH ,, I just want to change just enough to pull off the girl version with EASE ! Now thats SWEET ,,, We can be both ,,Cuz the guy parts easy ,, Friggen Hat Sunglasses some ol baggy ass shorts an a Tshirt an Deck shoes ,,,Unshaven ,,Hell all ya gotta do is let it all go an it will fix its self . Now For the Girl ,,,Now thats work !!

[ReineD]

Hell I love being BOTH ,, I just want to change just enough to pull off the girl version with EASE !

Here's the quandary: since it is difficult for the average male-bodied person to change just enough to be convincing as a female, how many of our members decide to forego the male, in order to pass more convincingly female? :)

And then being human, would there not be a degree of rationalization to justify these changes which would include a deprecation of maleness in general?

I'm not talking about the TSs who know without a doubt they are women born in the wrong body and who see their male anatomies as a birth defect.

[NathalieX66]

Here's the quandary: since it is difficult for the average male-bodied person to change just enough to be convincing as a female, how many of our members decide to forego the male, in order to pass more convincingly female? :)

gluten-free diet? :daydreaming:

[STACY B]

Here's the quandary: since it is difficult for the average male-bodied person to change just enough to be convincing as a female, how many of our members decide to forego the male, in order to pass more convincingly female? :)



Well thats the Trick of it ,,, How far are you willing to take it ? How far CAN you go until your at the point of No return ? Well that is yet to be seen . An I will guarentee that it all is on a person by person basis . We are all different ,, Some are more manly ,, Some are more girly ,, So ya have to find your Nitch ? Waitttt a min ,,,Pull back Cow Girl,,, Just maybe yull bite off more than you care to CHEW ? Or like you say ,,Do ya throw caution to the wind an just go for it ? But when ya do just remember your playing with fire ,,, Womans work is HARD to swallow on a day to day basis ,, Cuz as far as I know its not all Pantyhose an Fancy outfits . LOL,,, There is alot of Matinence involved ,,So be careful what ya wish for cuz it just mite come true . LADY !!

[katie_barns]

One of the hazards of posting a controversial topic is that your questions sometimes get lost in the discussion. Your question was simple "does this forum encourage femininity at the expense of masculinity". [I will deal with just the first question]

To some degree yes. Although I do not remember any degrading of masculinity on any thread I have read. Basically masculinity doesn't come up as an issue or topic. Some member do not like being referred to as a girl. That in itself could be looked at as those people feeling that way. I understand how they feel; but I don't feel that way. That’s ok.

One of the great things about this form is the spectrum of people here. From the very feminine to the masculine that likes to dress occasionally. I don't feel that exploring my femininity causes any expense to my masculinity. My masculinity is what it is; just like my feminine side.

I do propose that our society is the one that has a clear cut separation of masculine and feminine. One must be sacrificed for the other. Here not so much.

I mean no offense by this - A lot of the post here [including my own] usually has a masculine tone. The way posts are worded come from the masculine side. All the way down to word choice and sentence structure. A lot of us talk like guys even when we talk about makeup and clothing choices. From that perspective we are not sacrificing any of our masculinity. :) Ok that was pushing it, but just trying to make a point. Again nothing wrong with any of it. Just the way it is. And yes some here talk like girls.

May(be) I think this was a great post. Not for the controversially topic but to show that this forum has the most amazing people that can come from every walk of life with different degrees of interest in a topic [crossdressing] and not beat each other up; but actually learn.

To answer your question in my opinion No

[Butterfly Bill]

Not saying that at all. In fact, I am not suggesting anything. Just playing devil's advocate. I'm only questioning if, considering the continuum of cross dressing, masculinity fits into the conversations on this forum of MtF cross dressing. I am seeing if this forum is inclusive of the male cross dresser who does not, in an way shape or form, identify with the feminine. Is this board supportive of a male who simply likes the feel of silk? I saw a post about a CD who said that "passing is not important to him. In fact, he does not even shave his beard when he cross dresses" .

Yes, as one of those persons I feel like I'm in a small minority. But I don't feel excluded, because I can post without fear of being flamed. But the majority of the threads here I can't really relate to, so I don't comment much.

[Dree Yer Ane Weird]

I'm with Butterfly Bill on this. There's nothing inherently exclusive about the forum but it does tend to have a bias towards a particular outlook. When I was trying to come to terms with what I was if I hadn't used the search function i would have assumed that i wasn't a CD-er because I didn't want to do what the majority of threads were talking about.

I then joined because some of the sweeping generalisations were getting annoying but now I just ignore them.

[KaTanya]

The problem is that the concepts of "male" and "masculinity" are being treated as the same thing, when they're two seperate states (one physical, the other emotional). I always read this as part of the point of the forum, to challenge the concepts of "mascu/feminity" through the way we dress, etc. Does it help me relate to the experience of being a woman? Well, I haven't spontaneously had my first period yet, so I guess not. But that isn't a "feminine" thing... you get the idea.

To May(be), perhaps you should go with option C: exploring your feminity as asupplement to your masculinity, not a substitute. Ciao.

[Annette Todd]

I am a little concerned about some users suggesting that NASCAR or football can't be feminine. It seems like that is a little bit of a sexist conceit of women to think they can't like football for whatever reason. For the record, I care for neither sport. I don't typically watch ANY sport.



I don't think I was bashing NASCAR or football... I simply said that is not why I am here...

I like college football (Go Huskers) but I am here to identify with others with similar interests in sharing ideas relating to M2F dressing.

You have to analyze the audience. Personally I don't identify with the sexist attitudes of many "real men" I run into. They boast about the women they had or make outlandishly rude comments to women. That offends me and I resent being stereotyped as a "man". I happen to be straight and definitley have no physical attraction to males. But, I don't male bash as a general rule. I reserve the right to attack sexism be it male or female.

I made the mistake on these forums in contributing in the body issues forum. I didn't realize that many, if not most, of the members there are on a path to transition and appear to subscribe to group-think and blast anyone who doesn't subscribe whole-heartedly to their ideas. (my personal experience)

The way I look at this forum is we are a very diverse bunch. There should be no put down of anyone because of their degree of how they express their desire to cross-dress OR transition. ( I'm not sure I am being clear )

I don't see there is so much male bashing going on as there is attacking other members for expressing their own opinions. I also feel that members who wish only to be contradictory or are not contributing in a supportive way (I don't mean you may(be)) should temper their comments.

I have probably talked myself into another hole. I appologize if I have offended anyone. That is not my intent. (maybe I am too opinionated)

[Kaz]

I'm with Butterfly Bill on this. There's nothing inherently exclusive about the forum but it does tend to have a bias towards a particular outlook. When I was trying to come to terms with what I was if I hadn't used the search function i would have assumed that i wasn't a CD-er because I didn't want to do what the majority of threads were talking about.

I then joined because some of the sweeping generalisations were getting annoying but now I just ignore them.

This is an important point, I feel, because if we say we are a community of crossdressers, then the laws of statistical variation will apply. If you apply, say, a normal distribution to MtF CDs... with the more fem and the more masc in the tails of the distibution, which is where I guess they could be, then the vast majority of people on this site will tend to express a similar view and this could look like a bias. It is not a bias it is a case of numbers and volume of forum traffic. This is why we have different subsections. Given our population, I would love to do some research and stats on this... I think it would be very interesting to see the results!

The MtF section is the biggest, so it is possibly more representative of the 'general' views and attitudes of the members of the MtF community. By definition it will also be the most diverse as it effectively addresses the whole MtF community. If there is a bias in the norm for an anti-masculinity expression it would be great to understand the reasons for this. Without the data, by gut feel is that the majority of MtFs in this section are expressing a desire to less masculine and more feminine in their outlook on the section (not necessarily in real life). Apologies if I am repeating you Reine!

I don't come here to discuss guitars - I am a member of several other forums for this. But there are people here I will discuss guitars with if we find we have that in common. In the threads it gets identified and the PMs take care of the detail! I come to the MtF section to discuss issues pertaining to me and other MtF CDs... I learn and I contribute when I can. We are all different individuals but also with things in common... we are genetic males (our sex is male), but for varying reasons and in varying degrees, we like to wear clothing primarily designed (these days) for women.

[Contessa]

The two of them are not something you feel. It is a look I think. Then again I don't know and no body may read this anyway. Femininity is a way to look. It is what those who are masculine try to achieve. You can tell who is masculine cause they ask questions about femininity. We since we are all (mostly all) men actually come here for questions of feminine and we ask in a masculine way. I see you all as women those who use an avatar. I am not trying to be feminine I already am. And I don't want to learn the other way I already know. I don't think we have to be fair to masculinity here just when you are out with your guy friends. Or just dressing male or drab. Be drab or you know. I used to be male but not now. I wont say I was manish because I know I wasn't. I didn't nessicarily chase skirts, because I didn't realize I would rather wear them than just catch them to kiss them.

Sorry to not make any sense what so ever.

Tess

[Thera Home]

Whoa, my one brain cell is spinning like a top.............am I a man or what? help:heehee:

Thera