Passing average vs passing WOW

[celeste26]

Yeah I know another passing thread...

Well 99% of women are not the "knock you dead beautiful" even if we might say that to our spouses. There is a huge middle ground where acceptable exists. And some of us never quite make it even to that limited standard. But the whole issue of passing really is not exclusively to make it into the wow state either. Far too many of us make it into the "broadly acceptable" range and deny ourselves the option of going out into the world because they dont make it into the WOW state.

The real art of passing is to make it so that people dont feel they need to give us a second look. Frankly making it into the WOW state ensures a second look. And that second look is always far more critical than the initial look.

As has been written innumerable times here confidence is the #1 thing we need to apply to ourselves. All the rest is window dressing. So come one girls lets get out of our closets and into the world to enjoy it.

[Kaz]

Couldn't agree more. The art of passing is not to be noticed as being 'out of the normal'...:)

[Kate Simmons]

"Making it" as a woman requires acting as a woman acts, along with sharing, caring and compassion. That is what makes someone a woman (even if in spirit). The rest, as you say, is really window dressing.:)

[Tracii G]

Yep I agree with that Kaz.

[franlee]

I think you have nailed it down, along with what you have stated I think a little care and thought about how you carry yourself and picking your places to venture are the keys to public exposure. I would say that anyone with just a reasonable amount of preperation and care can pass in the simplest form(just that in passing not standing there for inspection) from a distance. If you aren't trying do one on ones or get in your face close, anyone can get by the radar. It's that second look or drawn attention that will get all but the most skilled CDer. Oh, and unless you have really cultivate a fem. voice keep that mouth shuut and smile.

[pennitkr]

As one who hasnt ventured into the real world (soon i hope) i try to read EVERY peice of advice and opinions on the subject
Yesterday i shopped for a purse and i was really critical of what women had and how they carried them
thank you for the thread

[Wildaboutheels]

When CDers dress to "blend in" they will most likely get a "pass" from the general public. The public generally does care and are NOT LOOKING to "clock" people unlike many here.

Then again, even if one does not dress to "blend in", public acceptance will depend greatly on 2 things. I concur with you completely on the first part - CONFIDENCE of the individual. The other is how the CDer treats others. Mutual respect goes a long way in this world.

[Marleena]

Well Celeste, all of the passing threads lately are making me a nervous wreck! I think I'll buck the trend and go back into the closet instead.:D

[Inna]

"Making it" as a woman requires acting as a woman acts, along with sharing, caring and compassion. That is what makes someone a woman (even if in spirit). The rest, as you say, is really window dressing.:)

I so love your response, no wonder we are sisters!

Passing as a woman simply requires one to be either gifted with natures whimsical wand, and of those I can count, hmmmmmmm, I am still thinking, well I am sure there are more then one but the one who comes to mind is Andrej Pejic, and simply being a woman, as Kate put is succinctly!

I have traveled the road to absolute passing and at least from my own experience crossdressing wasn't going to cut it for me, I quickly realized that I was in fact a woman trapped in the natures brutal joke of a flash. And even though I have come to terms with it, my journey was simply leading through hell.

If any of you have experienced transition then you know, but for those who never set on a path towards who you already are (providing you are!) expectations of fun and joy of passing are eons beyond, and by the time you get there, fun and whimsical nature of the act diminish way before within vast pain infected dungeons of congruity and rejection.

So, said the above, If you can pass for most time or even some time.................take it!!!!! Enjoy the joy and knowing that you can, enjoy the essence of thinking of what it feels to be a woman, because reality of being a woman is just like being a man who wakes up early to go to work to provide for his family, puts on JUST THE CLOTHES even if a fancy tailored suit, drives half a sleep to the office and goes about things just as his coworker, a woman who just got there half a sleep her self.

The difference is in the way the world now looks to me, a wonder of a place finally I feel as one with it, and surprisingly I can see how males have become way less aggressive in my perception, they smile, do things for me, respect me, and I know there might be other motives there but I take this reality hands down!

[Beverley Sims]

These days I just want to make it.
Back then WOW worked because I had great legs, nice boobs and a short short dress that let my legs go free.
I always got a second look.
Nowdays, a first look would be acceptable.:)

[jessicapaige]

I think I'm always going to have a hard time unless I can figure out how to get 3 inches shorter :o

[Persephone]

"Making it" as a woman requires acting as a woman acts, along with sharing, caring and compassion. That is what makes someone a woman (even if in spirit). The rest, as you say, is really window dressing.:)


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/sandylewiscares/Smiley_trophy.gif

Yes! Being a woman demands a lot from a man! You and Inna have said it best.

Sometimes I visualize it like an old movie metaphore for being lost - a compass spinning wildly. Almost everything in "girl world" is different. Clothing, movement, conversation, approach to problem solving, and on and on and on.

And even trickier, it isn't all "sugar and spice and everything nice."

Just like models and actresses are the representation of an ideal of beauty, that spiritual guideline of kindness and compassion is a model achieved by only a few. I know a couple of women who are consistently saintly.

So besides being giving and supporting a woman in the real world also has to watch her back! There's a lot of "What did she mean by that?"

To pass you can't dress it, you have to live it.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Kate Simmons]

In essence it comes down to being yourself. The qualities of loving and caring and sharing will shine through regardless of how we look when we become one with all of our innate abilities.:)

[Sarah Doepner]

I've said it before and it looks like I'll say it again. Passing for me is getting passed by. If I can get around the corner or far enough away that I don't hear the comments when they turn around, I'm happy. If they don't comment or stare it's a bonus because they were in their own world and not paying attention to me because of something I did or didn't do when I ventured past them. Part of that success is the look we can work on by altering our shape, picking appropriate clothing, doing a good job with makeup, hair and accessories. The rest is confidence based on how well we have come to accept our need to present a feminine person to the rest of the world.

[kellycan27]

First off... define passing. (good luck). There seems to be as many definitions of "passing" as there are members. " I blend", I am not noticed", "Nobody yelled tranny when I was at the mall", "I got addressed as Ma'am", "all it takes is self confidence and attitude", "I don't give a s**t what people think". Is it passing scrutiny in public? Passing in your own mind? "We can pass because there are a lot of 6'3" gg's and flat chested women with no defined hips, and women with masculine features". To me.. the definition of "passing" ( when used in the context of being TG) means to be mistaken for a woman under close scrutiny, but here again.. that is how I personally "define" the word. My point is... is there a point to these passing threads with all the different opinions of the definition of "Passing"? Where is the line between passing and not passing? If the definition of passing is a gray area without any kind of control to go by how can we define the the word? What does passing actually mean?

[May(be)]

First off... define passing. (good luck). There seems to be as many definitions of "passing" as there are members. " I blend", I am not noticed", "Nobody yelled tranny when I was at the mall", "I got addressed as Ma'am", "all it takes is self confidence and attitude", "I don't give a s**t what people think". Is it passing scrutiny in public? Passing in your own mind? "We can pass because there are a lot of 6'3" gg's and flat chested women with no defined hips, and women with masculine features". To me.. the definition of "passing" ( when used in the context of being TG) means to be mistaken for a woman under close scrutiny, but here again.. that is how I personally "define" the word. My point is... is there a point to these passing threads with all the different opinions of the definition of "Passing"? Where is the line between passing and not passing? If the definition of passing is a gray area without any kind of control to go by how can we define the the word? What does passing actually mean?

That is so post-modern of you to say that.:)

[Kathi Lake]

What does passing actually mean?Danged if I know! :)

My thoughts are along the lines of Sarah - if I don't get hassled, if I can slink into the background enough that I don't get a second glance, if I can slide through a group of people, and not leave a wake of disturbance - that is passing, to me.

See, I'm not out there doing this for others. I want to affect them as little as possible. I simple want to do what I want to do with as little negative interaction as possible. Do most know I'm really a guy? Of course! My goal is to do it well enough that they don't care.

Kathi

[Marleena]

First off... define passing. (good luck). There seems to be as many definitions of "passing" as there are members. " I blend", I am not noticed", "Nobody yelled tranny when I was at the mall", "I got addressed as Ma'am", "all it takes is self confidence and attitude", "I don't give a s**t what people think". Is it passing scrutiny in public? Passing in your own mind? "We can pass because there are a lot of 6'3" gg's and flat chested women with no defined hips, and women with masculine features". To me.. the definition of "passing" ( when used in the context of being TG) means to be mistaken for a woman under close scrutiny, but here again.. that is how I personally "define" the word. My point is... is there a point to these passing threads with all the different opinions of the definition of "Passing"? Where is the line between passing and not passing? If the definition of passing is a gray area without any kind of control to go by how can we define the the word? What does passing actually mean?


Okay, that's it I'm more stressed than I was earlier about this passing stuff! I'm going to purge all my femme stuff! :D

[Kathi Lake]

I'm going to purge all my femme stuff!:sad:Ummmmm, . . . why?

Who are you doing this for? Is this a competition? What is the problem with just being you - all of you?

Kathi

[Marleena]

Ummmmm, . . . why?

Who are you doing this for? Is this a competition? What is the problem with just being you - all of you?

Kathi

I thought I was passing okay but all of these passing threads have me wondering now. I was me.:)

[kimdl93]

I chose early to let this discussion of passing go on for a while before chiming in. Without getting bogged down in definitions, I am with those who are happy to blend in without attracting undue attention or in my case frightening small children and pets... I'm afraid that I can't ever hope for a WOW...maybe a Bowow!

[Candice Mae]

I just try to look like a normal woman for my age, nothing flashy just normal shirts and jeans. Simple and minimal make up, no need to be glammed up. And at natural and move gracefully, no need to over due the catwalk strut.

[Paulette]

I do not know if I pass or not, all I do know is that when I go out I mostly go to mainstream venues and I have never had any problems. Am I passing or blending, it just does not matter i am having fun living my life and not hurting anyone. I enjoy all facets of female presentation from wearing a dickens costume with corset, pantaloons, and hoop skirt to capris and a nice top, or a sundress on hot muggy day. People are way to busy to notice if the old lady wearing the dress is just plain ugly or possibly a guy in a dress. I work hard to make myself look as feminine as possible spending a lot of time perfecting my makeup and hair and ensuring that I am dressed appropriately for the venue I will be in so that I can relax and enjoy the day or evenings out dressed.

[Ressie]

Well Celeste, all of the passing threads lately are making me a nervous wreck! I think I'll buck the trend and go back into the closet instead.:D


Okay, that's it I'm more stressed than I was earlier about this passing stuff! I'm going to purge all my femme stuff! :D

ROTFL. I hope you're being humorous intentionally. :) I clocked someone very passable the other day in a store. She walked with confidence, and blended well. I might have been the only person in the store that could tell, but it was only after looking a second time.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Celest, Instead of passing I like to think that blending is more important.

[kellycan27]

Yeah I know another passing thread...

Well 99% of women are not the "knock you dead beautiful" even if we might say that to our spouses. There is a huge middle ground where acceptable exists. And some of us never quite make it even to that limited standard. But the whole issue of passing really is not exclusively to make it into the wow state either. Far too many of us make it into the "broadly acceptable" range and deny ourselves the option of going out into the world because they dont make it into the WOW state.

The real art of passing is to make it so that people dont feel they need to give us a second look. Frankly making it into the WOW state ensures a second look. And that second look is always far more critical than the initial look.

As has been written innumerable times here confidence is the #1 thing we need to apply to ourselves. All the rest is window dressing. So come one girls lets get out of our closets and into the world to enjoy it.

Wouldn't the real art of passing be the ability to pull off that "second more critical look"?

If Joe the linebacker has all the confidence in the world is he really going to be able to pull it off without the "window dressing"? This is after all a passing thread. That is of course if one defines passing as " being mistaken for a woman".

[Kaz]

It's about what you want to achieve... an attractive woman who gets noticed? Or just to get through the mall without being verbally abused! Passing is all relative to the 'test' you are applying... :heehee:

[Marleena]

ROTFL. I hope you're being humorous intentionally. :)

Yep, I was trying to be.:)

I have overdosed on passing threads for the time being. I would love to be a "WOW" but that aint gonna happen so I guess I'll just pass.:D

[kellycan27]

It's about what you want to achieve... an attractive woman who gets noticed? Or just to get through the mall without being verbally abused! Passing is all relative to the 'test' you are applying... :heehee:

Isn't the test "passing as a woman" in regards to this thread? whether one is attractive or average or out right plain.... if she can pull off that second more intense scrutiny..wouldn't that be more the art of passing? Just saying lol

[STACY B]

Thats what I said,,, If you look at some GG an your in man mode-- drab ,, An make it your bizzness to take a second look ,,An say DAM she sure looks good ,, Of coarse we all know she is dressed to the nines with all the Bells an Whistles ,,,>>>>( Listen ) >>>>>> DONT DRESS LIKE THAT !! Cuz all the other MEN CDs or Men in general will look to ,,Like everyone says ,,You dont want a second look ,, Just let them see your boobs an long hair there brain will tell them your female an leave it at that . BALLGAME !

[Megan Briana]

If i were able to just go through the mall or stores with my regular shopping and not be notice, or worse harassed, I would definitely be closer to doing this. But at this early stage, I couldn't fool Mr. Magoo. But, I am working hard on this, and I'm ready to let one or two GG friends know my secret. With their help, I can make good progress.

[MsJanessa]

On of the most "passable" t-ladies I know looks anything but beautiful---heavy, 50ish, looks like a maiden aunt---school marm type-dresses frumpy--make up kind of heavy but not outlandish-but very very passable--you wouldn't give her a second glance on the street nor think she was anything but a typical middle aged house wife going about her business---also wouldn't look at her much at all, which I suspect is the secret to passing--don't draw a lot of attention to your self---not what a lot of ladies here want to do when they "pass"--most of the gurls here want to pass as gorgeous super model, movie star types---much harder to do and usually only the select few can manage it (lucky gurls!!!) but if you are truely interested in passing, dress modestly, with relatively light makeup and moderate hairstyle(no long glamourous wigs or updos) Don't wear very high heels( no more than an inch or two-flats are better) and blend in---not something I do very well nor do I want to but that and lots of confidence is the key to passing.

[celeste26]

FWIW if one can and does achieve the WOW state, God bless you, but that is way beyond passing. It takes a GG great luck and skill for them to get to the WOW state and a CD making it requires just that much more. Great genes, first off, and spending tons of time and effort perfecting the look. (and money too btw)

Frankly one really "wants the attention" when either GG or CD when you does that.

[kellycan27]

FWIW if one can and does achieve the WOW state, God bless you, but that is way beyond passing. It takes a GG great luck and skill for them to get to the WOW state and a CD making it requires just that much more. Great genes, first off, and spending tons of time and effort perfecting the look. (and money too btw)

Frankly one really "wants the attention" when either GG or CD when you does that.

And your point is what? Are they still not practicing this "art" you speak of?

[celeste26]

My point is that seeking more attention is the opposite of passing. (in a good way)

[kellycan27]

My point is that seeking more attention is the opposite of passing. (in a good way)

I fail to see your logic.... but I won't belabor your point any longer.

[Brittany CD]

Well 99% of women are not the "knock you dead beautiful" even if we might say that to our spouses.
I guess I've been lucky enough to be surrounded by that 1% of women my whole life :)

[MsJanessa]

I fail to see your logic.... but I won't belabor your point any longer.
What she is saying is that most of us only pass when we dress down--don't attract attention, blend in and the average CD/TG is more likely to pass then when she is all glammed up and attracting attention (and close scutiny) Most of us would love to look like you and be able to "pass" while getting all the attention that goes with being beautiful and glamorous--unfortunately most of us don't have the looks to do it. What many of us are faced with is "passing" as a drab plain woman or being a beautiful glamorous, but rather obvious, CD

[Voulez-Vous]

As has been written innumerable times here confidence is the #1 thing we need to apply to ourselves.


Confidence is a great attribute to have. Honesty is another great attribute to have.
Unfortunately, I don't see much of that around here.