Passsing Defined

[Persephone]

Judging by many threads, there is a lot of confusion around the term "Passing."

I propose the following set of definitions. I'm sure there will be enough open discussion to let us come to some sort of conclusion that we can all hopefully live with.

Many thanks to everyone who participated in many of the "passing" discussions and whose comments were carefully studied to help form these definitions.

These definitions are only intended to apply to the crossdressing community although they may be useful to transgenered, transsexual and other folk.

There are no rights nor wrongs expressed here. No value judgements. The definitions do not in any way suggest a hierarchy. One is not "better" nor "more advanced" than another. They are simiply different ways in which crossdressing is expressed.

Six forms of crossdressing:

1) Underdressing - Wearing crossdressing garments hidden by clothing that represents the birth gender of the individual.

2) Crossplaying - Crossplay is similar to cosplay, which, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosplay), can be defined as "...any costumed role play in venues apart from the stage, regardless of the cultural context."

Crossplay would generally include those who dress in ways that challenge common social expectations.

An example would be someone who wears a skirt and stilettoes while sporting a shaved head and a beard.

3) Tolerated - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender without expectations of actually being automatically recognized as a member of that gender but relying upon the goodwill of others.

4) Blending - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender with the expectation of being perceived as a member of that gender in non-contact situations.

Those who dress and go to shopping malls without much direct interaction with others would be blending.

5) Accepted - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender with the expectation of being perceived as a member of that gender in casual encounters.

Examples include going out dressed and being acknowledged as a member of that gender in brief conversations with strangers such as sales associates, waitresses, and others.

6) Passing - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender and being considered a member of that gender by others in extended situations such as working, belonging to social clubs, etc

Hugs,
Persephone.

[STACY B]

I like it,,,,,I like it,,,, Well said an we can put this to bed . Heyyyyyyyy pretty sweet ,,,Huh,,,,, Aleast I know what scale Im on now ,,, Maybe a couple scales depending on how I feel that day ,, If I lower my standards then I will feel better about not doing so good in the contest ,,,LOL,,,, Just teetering between the 2 witch 2 is another story I guess ? Another thread another day !

[Marleena]

I'm just going to dress up as a guy instead. I'm told I pass rather easily. No stress, no worries!:D

[Kaz]

Here we go again....

[tiffanyjo89]

I'd flip the terms Accepted and Passing, keeping the same definition per number, but making it like this:

5) Passing - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender with the expectation of being perceived as a member of that gender in casual [to close] encounters.

6) Accepted - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender and being considered a member of that gender by others[, particularly genetically born members of that gender,] in extended situations such as working, belonging to social clubs, etc.

Additions are in brackets.

I'd also add notes to how important each level is to the person dressing according to this (using my version of the levels)

1) Underdressing - important only to those who are in social lives that crossdressing would destroy or those who do not wish to be in public dressed.
2) Crossplaying - a special level created for people who don't crossdress to be a member of the opposite gender, but rather dress in that way for costume purposes.
3) Tolerated - what a smaller portion of casual crossdressers wish to achieve.
4) Blending - what a smaller portion of serious crossdressers wish to achieve.
5) Passing - what the majority of serious crossdressers wish to achieve. For this and previous level use of alterations to presentation such as voice are used. For this level use of hormones may happen if a person is transsexual.
6) Accepted - what most transsexuals wish to have. For this level use of hormones and/or surgical alterations to body are almost definitely needed.

Of course this is just my opinion.

[Marleena]

Here we go again....

Speaking of pass, please pass the popcorn Kaz.lol.

[kimdl93]

Quite refined...I think you done a nice job. I'd be happy with a 5 and even a 4.5 ;)

[Emily359]

Sounds about right. Nicely put.

[noeleena]

Hi,

I know this is for dresser's so i just see some things a bit differently, im not going to say what i am,

Being accepted , dressing in day to day clothes yet dressing in other times = period costume s mixing with many people being known,

I to 6 dont apply, simple i dont fit any of those so i spos being different works for me , & some of us though not many will be different again,

My concept is in being different so no matter what i wear will not change my looks or for some how they percive my mixed message's in how i present myself till of cause as they get to know me & talk with me for some my voice could convey mixed message's as well. yet im in front of 100's of people,

My ? will be what is the oppsite gender for myself anyway, so when you put all that in to the mix what have you.

love it,,,,,,

...noeleena...

[Beverley Sims]

Definitions are floated through think tanks all the time.
Yes a good start.
We will call this the Persephone rule.
Until something better comes along.:)
I am sure others will have an opinion.

[AllieSF]

Passing - Moving into the lane to the left of the one in which you are currently occupying to "pass" that slow poke in that same lane where you are now. I.e. Moving to a faster life style than the one in which you are currently stuck, i.e. having more better fun!.

[Jolene Robertson]

Yeah another passing thing. But I kind of like the number system. Here goes another term (I like presentable) somewhere between 4 & 5. I know for me I can't completely pass (voice for one thing), but at least look presentable.

Hugs,
Jolene

[linda allen]

I'd flip the terms Accepted and Passing, keeping the same definition per number, but making it like this:

5) Passing - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender with the expectation of being perceived as a member of that gender in casual [to close] encounters.

6) Accepted - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender and being considered a member of that gender by others[, particularly genetically born members of that gender,] in extended situations such as working, belonging to social clubs, etc.

I agree. To me, "passing" means you pass as a female. Like in walking down the street or through the mall.

But, since there are no laws governing this, we and the general public will continue to use whatever terms or labels we see fit to use.

[melissakozak]

Seems like PASSING is one of the Holy Grail concepts in our world when what I think is most important is SELF ACCEPTANCE. I have said this once before, and I shall say it again. If you are 6'4" and 275 pounds, you are not going to PASS. But you can achieve self acceptance, and people might even accept you as 'female,' but you will be accepted as a transwoman, probably not a GG. If you are petite, 5'4" and 127 pounds, you probably PASS fine, but it means nothing if, internally, that person is in conflict about being transgendered or having problems identifying as a crossdresser.

Who do you think is more content? The person with self acceptance or the one who passes easily but is struggling with identity issues????

[Angela Campbell]

Shouldn't there be one more added to the bottom of the list? You know the one where people point and make comments......

[GeminaRenee]

The list seems fine to me. It's about how I'd define the continuum. However, opinions on this must vary widely. I've been told that I "pass" by another cd or two, which I find quite amusing. Out and about, I'd say I'm mostly ignored (can't say whether I'm being clocked but not reacted to or perceived as female), and occasionally stared at. Hardly passing in my opinion.

[simplykaelyn]

Seems like PASSING is one of the Holy Grail concepts in our world when what I think is most important is SELF ACCEPTANCE. I have said this once before, and I shall say it again. If you are 6'4" and 275 pounds, you are not going to PASS. But you can achieve self acceptance, and people might even accept you as 'female,' but you will be accepted as a transwoman, probably not a GG. If you are petite, 5'4" and 127 pounds, you probably PASS fine, but it means nothing if, internally, that person is in conflict about being transgendered or having problems identifying as a crossdresser.

Who do you think is more content? The person with self acceptance or the one who passes easily but is struggling with identity issues????

Well said Melissa. I'm 6'4" and have size 14 feet. No way in hell I'm "passing", but I accept who I am and that exudes confidence, and with that I may get acceptance. Not necessarily approval, but I wish to be just another "meh" moment for those who notice me.

[docrobbysherry]

Interesting post, Persephone! I believe u clearly stated your 6, "forms", of CDing. Yet, most seem to have considered them as, "levels", or "stages", instead! I don't get that at all, tho.

The only kind of dresser I can be on your list is 2. And, I don't even identify as being a "cos", or "crossplayer"!

I have no interest in doing #1 and could never accomplish #'s 3 thru 6!

[ReineD]

Excellent idea, Persephone!

I think that if members can identify their goals, which are determined by their gender identity and the importance they place on their male lives, combined with the degree of femininity they wish to express that results from the realities of their statures and physiognomies, it will help prevent a lot of argument on this board about the nature of CDing. Not everyone has the wish or the expectation of being taken as a genetic female.

I have a few observations/suggestions, if you are posting this with the view of receiving suggestions for refinement. If not, please ignore the rest of my post. :)

Your term crossplaying I believe was once considered genderbending and I think this is a clearer term. Some people might confuse crossplaying with cosplaying which can be misleading. Also, the members who genderbend (purposely present a combined gender appearance), do so because this conforms with their identity and they are not attempting a maskerade.

I'm also wondering about members like JiveTurkeyOnRye, who present fully male wearing male looking skirts and male looking shoes. In my view these members are not crossdressing, they're rather redefining male clothing styles Ã* la Jean Paul Gaultier. Yet because this is not mainstream they may consider it CDing?

http://cakenotcoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/marc-in-skirt.jpg
http://cdn01.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/20/skirted_men.jpg

Also should there be a section for androgyny? This is different than genderbending, since true androgyny requires the onlooker to not know whether the person is male or female, which is difficult to accomplish unless one has a face and body like Andrej Pevic. Still, I believe there is a small number of members who attempt this.

I do not see a reference for the fantasy CDers, namely the historical period (i.e. Wren Faire) or little girl dressers. Or the CDers who are into a specific manner of dress like leotards, wedding dresses, etc.

I also do not see a reference for the members who wear clothing purchased in women's stores that can easily be taken as male clothing, such as Lee Jeans and polo shirts combined with a unisex type shoe. These members receive a psychological benefit from wearing women's clothes, even though few people notice that they are CDing. Maybe this group of people can be combined with the underdressers whose CDing also escape notice.

In #5 Accepted, you mention being acknowledged by SAs as being female. Would this be out of politeness since despite the short interaction the CDers are still read? Or would they not be read because of the short interaction? For example, my SO is not read by many people who glance at her although her voice gives her away when she speaks for any length of time. Yet, some people still do not know since they do not read the more subtle gender cues. At any rate, my SO's goal is to not be taken as a male when dressed, even though she has chosen to not take HRT or have FFS.

And last I agree with Tiffanyjo. Perhaps #5 should be considered passing (if the SAs do not read or are not sure about the CDing), and #6 should be Acceptance, which in my opinion occurs for most people (there are exceptions) after HRT and FFS.

[Persephone]

I'd flip the terms Accepted and Passing, keeping the same definition per number, but making it like this:

5) Passing - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender with the expectation of being perceived as a member of that gender in casual [to close] encounters.

6) Accepted - Dressing in a manner consistent with the opposite gender and being considered a member of that gender by others[, particularly genetically born members of that gender,] in extended situations such as working, belonging to social clubs, etc.

Additions are in brackets.

I'd also add notes to how important each level is to the person dressing according to this (using my version of the levels)

I've been pondering Tiffany Jo's thoughts on this for several days and I think she is right about switching "Passing" and "Accepted." I'm only concerned about how this may agree with other commonly accepted definitions of "Passing" since it would be very difficult to change the wide-spread use of that term.

Thoughts?

As to the other suggestions that she and others, particularly Reine's important considerations, have made, those are next on my list to ponder! But I would appreciate input from others.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[kellycan27]

I've been pondering Tiffany Jo's thoughts on this for several days and I think she is right about switching "Passing" and "Accepted." I'm only concerned about how this may agree with other commonly accepted definitions of "Passing" since it would be very difficult to change the wide-spread use of that term.

Thoughts?

As to the other suggestions that she and others, particularly Reine's important considerations, have made, those are next on my list to ponder! But I would appreciate input from others.

Hugs,
Persephone.

Passing, accepted... What's the difference? People mold the definitions according to what works for them

[Jodi]

People put pix on here of themselves asking the question--do I pass? There is one sure fire way to find out. Take the final exam on passing.

Get dressed, go to the mall on a Saturday afternoon. Walk up to a group of teenagers and ask them to tell you where a certain store is.

You will immediately know whether you pass or not.

Jodi

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Something else must be brought up as well. You can be "Accepted" without being perceived as being female. In other words, people can know for an absolute fact that you're a CD and still be respectful and use female pronounds.

Veronica