FACTORS of Knowing

[Inna]

As I had several deep inquisitive conversations with folks in the community I have come to a conclusion which settles at least in my mind the question of Transgender continuum and specifics in determination of who is who!

We have quite a few descriptions as to the type of TG one is, but in my opinion these are often mislead by the individual them self.

As for such description one would have to be brutally honest them selves and if such was easy therapy would not be necessary. Therapy uncovers layers of denial, almost everyone inflicted with Transness of one degree or other, is in denial.

After 46 years of life, at 7 I knew I was different, I am sure I started to build walls way before that ripe age of 7, then a lifetime of deceitful maneuvering through life and finally process of dismantling the fortress, past 4 years from the decision to embrace inevitable truth and I am still uncovering bits and pieces under the rubble.
I am not sure it will ever end, and I am trying to be as open minded about it as possible. I have become spiritual, abandoned anger and false sense of control, became centered and whole, but yet I still find these crumbs all over the floor of my consciousness.

So in essence, discussions of crossdressing, transsexualism, who is what and how and how deep will all be pseudo realistic, for nearly all of us do not fully know us at all!

[abby39]

For some reason "inflicted with transness" really rubs me the wrong way. I do nit feel I am "inflicted" with anything. Being trans is just who I am, it is in essence, me.

inflict [ɪnˈflɪkt]
vb (tr)
1. (often foll by on or upon) to impose (something unwelcome, such as pain, oneself, etc.)
2. Rare to cause to suffer; afflict (with)
3. to deal out (blows, lashes, etc.)

This is not me, no way.

[melissaK]

O-O-O-Oh Inna Sweetie! I am flashing back to undergrad and my Philosophy classes on existentialism and authenticity, about which there's simply too much written to fit in this forum. And how apro po that abby posts on semantic terminology . . .

digital hugs,
'lissa

PS Abby, nothing wrong with you're post at all, it fit especially because existentialists were known for arguing semantic terms as part of their proofs and critiques.

[Amalthea]

Semantics aside, I agree with Abby. I do not feel inflicted, I feel blessed.

[Megan Briana]

I wouldn't say im inflicted for CD either. For me, It was chosen. I may have had the thoughts for years, but i CHOSE to put on the first pair of panties, to wear my first bra. No, If i am inflicted, then it would be inflicted with the fear of telling my family, my children, my friends, to be found out before I am ready to be out. Never for wearing something that i choose to wear. And (hugs) neither should you :)

[Inna]

You know what, I am yet to meet a Trans person who is dancing down the strip, in their trans skin, waving their hands in joy of being confronted with derogatory comment, singled out, laughed at, poked at, shunned, confused in their own skin, LOOK INSIDE DEEP ENOUGH beyond the band-aid ego, and bruised self....its there, but then.....................WHO CARES!

[abby39]

Wow, sounds like you need to move someplace a little more accepting? I have to deal with all of that and I'm not writing a thread on how awful it is to be trans. As with everything in life, its complicated. I do however DO KNOW the people you sarcastically say do not exist. I am part of a great trans community with tons of resorces and activities. "dancing down the strip" sounds a little striotipical of someone who hasnt embrased being trans and what being trans intailes. Is it a rough road? Hell yes! Is it worth it? Hell yes! What it is not worth is hiding in the shadows of shame and opression and self administering "band-aid's" to our self richous ego's. And it sounds like you may be a pro at that. Transmisogyny much? Self loathing will eat you alive.

[Inna]

Wow, sounds like you need to move someplace a little more accepting? I have to deal with all of that and I'm not writing a thread on how awful it is to be trans. As with everything in life, its complicated. I do however DO KNOW the people you sarcastically say do not exist. I am part of a great trans community with tons of resorces and activities. "dancing down the strip" sounds a little striotipical of someone who hasnt embrased being trans and what being trans intailes. Is it a rough road? Hell yes! Is it worth it? Hell yes! What it is not worth is hiding in the shadows of shame and opression and self administering "band-aid's" to our self richous ego's. And it sounds like you may be a pro at that. Transmisogyny much? Self loathing will eat you alive.

I tend to say a lot of thing which may be controversial however I stay clear from Sarcasm, and if you feel such i have inflicted upon you then I will offer my apologies to you.
Seems to me however that if you were at the very comfortable place of knowing self and being whole such connotation would have not become so irritating and rubbing wrong way, as they were meant to simply project the essence of feelings I felt my self?!

[abby39]

Patronizing, ha, neat.

[Kaz]

Hi Abby, I see you are new to the forum. As you interact more with your fellow members I am sure you will come to appreciate the diversity of experiences we have here. Some of our members have been here for many years and have openly shared their experiences and gained friends, respect and recognition. I personally respect everyone's views as long as they equally respect the views of others.

Sometimes a more open and honest approach is a good thing as an intro to a community such as this?

Why not post in the Introductions section and let us all know a little about yourself? That would give everyone a bit of context to where you are coming from?

I am sure you have a great contribution to make and will learn a lot, but we need to 'build' bridges...?

[abby39]

Oh I do. I just dont think being trans is an affliction. Not everyone thinks like me nor should they, but when I see something like that, almost dehumanizing who and what I am, it bothers me. And if people want to post rubbish, then they should expect to be called out on it. I'm not here to start trouble or to troll. But I will offer my opinions, some good, and some bad I'm sure. It's all a part of life I guess?

Did you see that? I used the word rubbish! I got all British just for you! ;)

[kellycan27]

There's a difference in stating one's opinion, and calling someone Else's "rubbish"..... simply because you don't agree. It too... "rubs people the wrong way"

[abby39]

True Kelly, but if you are generalizing that all transfolk are inflicted, then the opinion directly impacts me. Therefore, I call it how I see it.

[kellycan27]

True Kelly, but if you are generalizing that all transfolk are inflicted, then the opinion directly impacts me. Therefore, I call it how I see it.

I guess it depends on how much weight that one gives another's opinion... wouldn't you say?

[Kathryn Martin]

So in essence, discussions of crossdressing, transsexualism, who is what and how and how deep will all be pseudo realistic, for nearly all of us do not fully know us at all!

Inna, I have not the foggiest idea of what you a talking about in this. Especially "for nearly all of us do not not fully know us at all!" do you use "us" as pluralis majestatis or do you mean "us" as in "we all", I am not sure. If you could answer so I understand what you are saying I would like to say a few words. Unfortunately, I am speculating right now. Maybe you could re-phrase the sentence.

[abby39]

I guess it depends on how much weight that one gives another's opinion... wouldn't you say?

Well I guess it's the person who determines the weight. I think generalizing an already oppressed and marginalized segment of society is one that carries weight. At least for me...yes?

[Badtranny]

True Kelly, but if you are generalizing that all transfolk are inflicted, then the opinion directly impacts me. Therefore, I call it how I see it.

Then I hope you won't mind if I calls it how I sees it as well.

You've only made 13 posts as of yet, and so far you're not making a very good impression. Inna is beloved by many of us and though she sometimes gets her English a little gobbed up, her perspective is a welcome one around here.

You may be inexplicably offended by the word inflicted but if that's the word she truly meant to use, it basically means "struck by". Were you not struck with transsexualism or did you choose it? The word in this case is fairly innocuous. If she in fact meant to say "affliction" instead, then that would make your ire more understandable, except for some of us, it has indeed been an affliction. I would even say that most 40 something transitioners spent most of their lives trying to "cure" that particular affliction, before they finally came to self acceptance.

If you popped out of mommy as a fully realized and confident transsexual than good for you. Many of us unfortunately were conflicted for many years, ...and thus afflicted.

You'll just have to excuse the offense, your wonderful experience doesn't make mine (or Inna's) any less valid.

[Inna]

Just to settle this so that it doesn't get out of control, which apparently I feel it is starting to, my point in the post was this:

"So in essence, discussions of crossdressing, transsexualism, who is what and how and how deep will all be pseudo realistic, for nearly all of us do not fully know us at all!"

If one feels they absolutely know everything there is to know of them selves, lucky you, I for one, am learning every day and almost seem to morph into a different being and understanding of self, each and every day. Transsexuality was INFLICTED upon my self, I did not choose it nor did I welcome it, Transsexuality as in Gender Dysphoria, "Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with the sex they were assigned at birth and/or the gender roles associated with that sex). It describes the symptoms related to transsexualism, as well as less severe manifestations of gender dysphoria"

I am happy I have conquered GD as I feel I am cured of the most symptoms, but will I ever be free of the past experience, I don't think.

So, as often used in writing US or WE as generalization, perhaps because some of the topics do dig deep and are provoking the emotional response, I should use "I" because that is all I can offer.

[abby39]

Then I hope you won't mind if I calls it how I sees it as well.

You've only made 13 posts as of yet, and so far you're not making a very good impression. Inna is beloved by many of us and though she sometimes gets her English a little gobbed up, her perspective is a welcome one around here.

You may be inexplicably offended by the word inflicted but if that's the word she truly meant to use, it basically means "struck by". Were you not struck with transsexualism or did you choose it? The word in this case is fairly innocuous. If she in fact meant to say "affliction" instead, then that would make your ire more understandable, except for some of us, it has indeed been an affliction. I would even say that most 40 something transitioners spent most of their lives trying to "cure" that particular affliction, before they finally came to self acceptance.

If you popped out of mommy as a fully realized and confident transsexual than good for you. Many of us unfortunately were conflicted for many years, ...and thus afflicted.

You'll just have to excuse the offense, your wonderful experience doesn't make mine (or Inna's) any less valid.

So my opinions are not valid because I do not have 10,000 posts..hmmmm..sounds ridiculous. Maybe I'll put "my bike is red" or "the car is yellow" on every thread ever posted here so I get the pleasure of being taken seriously...seriously??? As we say in the sticks, "that dog don't hunt." And by the way, as I can tell by your username you may be a little behind in the times. "Tranny" is a derogatory term used to degrade and dehumanize transwomen in-particular. Perhaps its time for an update? I'm thinking not.

If someone wants to start a thread that to me makes absolutely NO SENSE at all, and it is something I am passionate about, I will retort! Is this 15 or 16 posts? See I'm getting there! ;)

[Thera Home]

I am not knowing

:argue: :thinking:

Thera

[Inna]

Dear Abby, our BadTranny is really a good tranny and really not Tranny at all, however she has a good sense of humor and we have got to know and love her that way over time. As [-]WE[/-] ooops, I see you being new here and seemingly feeling very defensive over quotations that perhaps do not mean real harm but are simple statements of what ifs, I like to extend my welcome and honestly say that no one here means harm nor would want to put any one down.

I do however get on the controversial subjects as I want to dig as deep as I can to uncover the inner workings of this condition [-]WE[/-] darn stereotypes, I call transsexuality.

So welcome here with humor and laughter and hope that you will take it as honest and straightforward as it is :)

[abby39]

Dear Abby, our BadTranny is really a good tranny and really not Tranny at all, however she has a good sense of humor and we have got to know and love her that way over time. As [-]WE[/-] ooops, I see you being new here and seemingly feeling very defensive over quotations that perhaps do not mean real harm but are simple statements of what ifs, I like to extend my welcome and honestly say that none of anyone here means harm or no one would want to put any one down.

I do get defensive. OBVIOUSLY! :) There are just buzzwords that really get me going. A knee jerk reaction? Perhaps. I am just very passionate about my community and sometimes, when I hear or read things that I dont agree with, I have to speak my mind. I like this site and have read some really good threads! But I will step out of this conversation, so as not to dig a metaphorical hole I can not climb out of. I did not mean to hurt any feelings, and I apologize if I did. :) :) :)

[Inna]

I do get defensive. OBVIOUSLY! :) There are just buzzwords that really get me going. Sometimes a knee jerk reaction? Perhaps. I am just very passionate about my community and sometimes, when I hear or read things that I dont agree with, I have to speak my mind. I like this site and have read some really good threads! But I will step out of this conversation, so as not to dig a metaphorical hole I can not climb out of. I did not mean to hurt any feelings, and I apologize if I did. :) :) :)

OK and if I did use any connotations that felt I was attacking, I am as well sorry.
No need to leave, I feel as though we have kind of met head on, any way will do, Love, Inna :)

[Kathryn Martin]

Thank you Inna that clarified this for me.

I am going to answer this by an allegory.

Imagine a highwire in a circus tent with two tent poles both of which have a basket on them and the wire is strung between the two baskets. One of the baskets has a great big F on it the other has a great big M on it. Each pole has either the F or the M on it and they match the basket. They are the safe places in this act, the place where guy wires keep the poles straight and upright. In each basket there are people most of which feel safe and secure right where they are. But some feel compelled to venture out on to the wire, searching for a place where they find their spot somewhere along the way between the two baskets. Some spectators in the tent will variously shout “fools”, “idiots”, “crazy”, “disgusting “ at the dancers on the wire while the majority, will shout “you can do it”, “it’s ok we love you”, “what can we do to help”, “be safe” all the while clutching their hands while they watch the dancers teeter, desperately trying to find their balance on a highwire, no net, fighting their own obsession but never succeeding. It’s a thrilling dance, a rousing spectacle for the dancers but it is always a highwire dance.


Imagine now a second act right beside the first, same set up except for one thing. The basket is adorned with an F but the pole has an M on it and vice versa. There are few in those baskets, they are firmly rooted there safe and secure. There is not a single dancer in the wire. But, they cannot understand why the pole is the wrong pole. How, do they ask, did the wrong pole get underneath my basket. What is the cause of my misfortune that the foundation on which my security is anchored is just wrong. At first they ignore it. But more and more the niggling feeling that this simply cannot be get’s strong. They ask if maybe the basket is in the wrong place. Maybe the pole is right but the basket somehow got switched. While they get little attention from the audience, because nothing is happening, when they shout down to the audience and ask: am I in the wrong basket or on the wrong pole everyone shouts back: you can never be on the wrong pole, the pole is always the right one. Maybe your basket is defective, try dancing like those over there, but never ever believe you’re on the wrong pole. In the end it is to no avail, because all of those in the F basket know that their pole is wrong. And everyone in the M basket know their pole is wrong too. And some day, for most sooner or later they face the reality that they must switch poles. That is when they discover, that in truth you cannot just simply dismantle your basket and carry it over to the right pole. It will not move, ever. And so they climb down from their basket, leaving the security and safety and begin bit by bit dismantling the pole with it’s big sign on it and build a new one. Some spectators boo them, hurl insults, tell them their pole will never really change, some will clutch their hearts and see them for what they are and what they need. Quietly hoping, that all will go well. And when the pole is rebuilt, all the guy wires are up again, the pole is straight and we climb into the comfort of our basket with the right emblem and the right pole then no one notices us anymore and we go about our lives.

[abby39]

OK and if I did use any connotations that felt I was attacking, I am as well sorry.
No need to leave, I feel as though we have kind of met head on, any way will do, Love, Inna :)

Rite? Quite the introduction! And it is good to meet you! :) I wonder when the powers that be will let my picture be seen. I dont like feeling anonymous when I get to see everyone else. Hope you are having a great weekend! :)

[Kathryn Martin]

Can I ask you a question? Being trans is your essence, you said.

Do you consider it a blessing, a gift, a calling?


I do get defensive. OBVIOUSLY! :) There are just buzzwords that really get me going. A knee jerk reaction? Perhaps. I am just very passionate about my community and sometimes, when I hear or read things that I dont agree with, I have to speak my mind. I like this site and have read some really good threads! But I will step out of this conversation, so as not to dig a metaphorical hole I can not climb out of. I did not mean to hurt any feelings, and I apologize if I did. :) :) :)

[josee]

Inna, I think I know exactly what you are talking about.
I am still digging out through the layers of denial built up by a lifetime of trying to cover up who I really am.
Like you as a young child I became aware that I was different from the other "boys". It also became clear, shortly after, that the differences were something that should be covered up if I wanted to get along with others.
I really became aware that my transness could be an affliction when being honest meant telling my broken hearted wife that I wanted to be a girl.

Also understand the part about pseudo realistic conversations because as we're sifting through the layers of debris we sometimes find we even lied to ourselves about who we are in an unconscious effort to feel less weird or something.

[kellycan27]

Your opinions are welcome, but you are fighting "the fight" in the wrong venue. Nobody is trying to marginalize anyone.. especially here of all places. A lot of us have been there and "got the t-shirt" so you are really just preaching to the choir in regards to how we are seen by society. We come here to talk, discuss, and opine, not repress or attack with malice aforethought. If you want to fight.. fight the right people. We are not the enemy.

[Jorja]

Thank you Inna that clarified this for me.

I am going to answer this by an allegory.

Imagine a highwire in a circus tent with two tent poles both of which have a basket on them and the wire is strung between the two baskets. One of the baskets has a great big F on it the other has a great big M on it. Each pole has either the F or the M on it and they match the basket. They are the safe places in this act, the place where guy wires keep the poles straight and upright. In each basket there are people most of which feel safe and secure right where they are. But some feel compelled to venture out on to the wire, searching for a place where they find their spot somewhere along the way between the two baskets. Some spectators in the tent will variously shout “fools”, “idiots”, “crazy”, “disgusting “ at the dancers on the wire while the majority, will shout “you can do it”, “it’s ok we love you”, “what can we do to help”, “be safe” all the while clutching their hands while they watch the dancers teeter, desperately trying to find their balance on a highwire, no net, fighting their own obsession but never succeeding. It’s a thrilling dance, a rousing spectacle for the dancers but it is always a highwire dance.


Imagine now a second act right beside the first, same set up except for one thing. The basket is adorned with an F but the pole has an M on it and vice versa. There are few in those baskets, they are firmly rooted there safe and secure. There is not a single dancer in the wire. But, they cannot understand why the pole is the wrong pole. How, do they ask, did the wrong pole get underneath my basket. What is the cause of my misfortune that the foundation on which my security is anchored is just wrong. At first they ignore it. But more and more the niggling feeling that this simply cannot be get’s strong. They ask if maybe the basket is in the wrong place. Maybe the pole is right but the basket somehow got switched. While they get little attention from the audience, because nothing is happening, when they shout down to the audience and ask: am I in the wrong basket or on the wrong pole everyone shouts back: you can never be on the wrong pole, the pole is always the right one. Maybe your basket is defective, try dancing like those over there, but never ever believe you’re on the wrong pole. In the end it is to no avail, because all of those in the F basket know that their pole is wrong. And everyone in the M basket know their pole is wrong too. And some day, for most sooner or later they face the reality that they must switch poles. That is when they discover, that in truth you cannot just simply dismantle your basket and carry it over to the right pole. It will not move, ever. And so they climb down from their basket, leaving the security and safety and begin bit by bit dismantling the pole with it’s big sign on it and build a new one. Some spectators boo them, hurl insults, tell them their pole will never really change, some will clutch their hearts and see them for what they are and what they need. Quietly hoping, that all will go well. And when the pole is rebuilt, all the guy wires are up again, the pole is straight and we climb into the comfort of our basket with the right emblem and the right pole then no one notices us anymore and we go about our lives.

Just carry a can of paint with you and correct the big sign with the correct emblem. Then go about your life. :)

[abby39]

Can I ask you a question? Being trans is your essence, you said.

Do you consider it a blessing, a gift, a calling?

"in essence" not "is my essence" Big difference there. I don't really consider it anything, it's just who, and more to the point(I guess), what I am.


Your opinions are welcome, but you are fighting "the fight" in the wrong venue. Nobody is trying to marginalize anyone.. especially here of all places. A lot of us have been there and "got the t-shirt" so you are really just preaching to the choir in regards to how we are seen by society. We come here to talk, discuss, and opine, not repress or attack with malice aforethought. If you want to fight.. fight the right people. We are not the enemy.

I wasn't starting a fight, I just stated an opinion based on information that was in the original post. Everything after that was defensive because of circumstance and "point of view." I do not take kindly to dog piling because my views differ from the collective. And that my opinions do not matter because of the number of posts I have or have not written. It is a little absurd don't you think? There is transmisogyny within the trans community, I'm sure we are all aware of that. Infighting, it seems, comes with the territory. I like passionate people and passionate discussion, and perhaps a little rocking of the boat? I dunno, perhaps I'm a masochist? ;)

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have had probably the easiest transition of anyone as well as the happiest transition. Unlike most, I did know I was a girl/woman for as long as I can remember and lived as a woman at ever available moment I had the freedom to do so. The reason I was abused as a child was because my parents tried as hard as they could to beat the girl/woman out of me. It never worked and I had to continue being abused which turned into sexual abuse as well. But not once did I ever give in. No one was going to stop me from living my life outwardly as the woman I am on the inside. I have two shrinks who are MD's and thy both have confirmed that I do suffer from GID, and both have written psychiatric prognoses that SRS is a necessity for my psychiatric well being.

Although I have loosely used the terms: Transitioning, and Transsexual on here to simplify labels used to described myself so that everyone here understands, I have never used those words off this website to refer to me. I know who I am and I am a woman plan and simple. I have always been a woman and will die a woman. When my SRS is over the last birth defect will have been corrected. From that moment on, I will never have anything to do with with these websites. They were beneficial I will not deny and I have made some friends here. I hope that I have added humor to some of the very serious thread and those that were negative. I also hope that I have helped some of you. Even if I helped just one person, it would have been worth every moment on here.

Nevertheless, when I step off the plane at my last destination and all my family and girlfriends will be there to greet me, I will wipe anything dealing with Transsexualism out of my life. I am a woman not a trans-woman you can either agree or not as it does not matter what you think about me. It only matters what I think of me and who I know I am.

Sorry to get off topic but I could not stop my fingers from typing. I am at T - 41 days and counting.

[Pink Person]

Abby, I like the quote by Charles Bukowski. My favorite quote of him comes from the movie Barfly. "Endurance is more important than truth." I love that line, and it is a quote I will be using for the rest of my life.

We all struggle with trans issues, to one degree or another. The TS group here has some pretty good eggs in it. However, sometimes our messages get scrambled when they should be served over easy. I expect we will be able to endure our disagreements and misunderstandings because endurance is one of our major virtues, even if the whole truth sometimes eludes us.

P.S. I like Bukowski, but think that crapping in the sink is not allowable. I probably will never do it.

[LisaMallon]

As for such description one would have to be brutally honest them selves and if such was easy therapy would not be necessary. Therapy uncovers layers of denial, almost everyone inflicted with Transness of one degree or other, is in denial.

After 46 years of life, at 7 I knew I was different, I am sure I started to build walls way before that ripe age of 7, then a lifetime of deceitful maneuvering through life and finally process of dismantling the fortress, past 4 years from the decision to embrace inevitable truth and I am still uncovering bits and pieces under the rubble.
I am not sure it will ever end, and I am trying to be as open minded about it as possible. I have become spiritual, abandoned anger and false sense of control, became centered and whole, but yet I still find these crumbs all over the floor of my consciousness.

So in essence, discussions of crossdressing, transsexualism, who is what and how and how deep will all be pseudo realistic, for nearly all of us do not fully know us at all!

Largely correct sadly. Did the same for even longer. I went through various stages once I worked it out (yes there was a little part of me that acknowledged it a long time ago once I understood it):
Don't think about it.
Run Away.
Management.

The first is self explanatory.
The 2nd is just keeping yourself so busy, emotionally intellectually physically that .. well you don't think about much of anything really. This is often when you have an 'alpha male' period, which quite a few TS seem to go though at some stage or another. Do dangerous things etc. I noted the high percentage tht are in (or ex) military, not surprising. I did similar things myself.
Note this is often the cause of the "what you?" comments when you come out.

The 3rd is where you (often having ran out of energy running away) that you try and 'manage' it. I will just be a part time CD, not a problem. That will deal with it. Get my 'fix' now and then and rest of the time I will be normal. Yeh right. But some people keep this up for a very long time, even for the rest of their lives.

Then acceptance. You finally figure it out by yourself and/or with help.

Then finally, often a big delay again. Action.
Now your action may be, because of all the other commitments that you care about, is continuing management. It's a life, can even be a damn good one, albeit with a price.
Or your action is transition. Again it's a life, can be a damn good one, albeit with a price.

Look there are quite a lot of people in the other forums here that frankly are as (or even more) TS than I am and are are in the management regime, whether or not they have come to the acceptance stage or not (I suspect a few have, reading between the lines).

So you are so right, what many here tell are 'stories'.
There exceptions of course , 2 come to mind straight away, Melissa and Emmi, but they both have that rare ability to write well.
But the vast majority of the TS people here are pretty damn straight about themselves, which is really nice (and has helped me quite a lot) and, in the very best sense of the term, honourable.

[Inna]

The 3rd is where you (often having ran out of energy running away) that you try and 'manage' it. I will just be a part time CD, not a problem. That will deal with it. Get my 'fix' now and then and rest of the time I will be normal. Yeh right. But some people keep this up for a very long time, even for the rest of their lives.

Then acceptance. You finally figure it out by yourself and/or with help.

Then finally, often a big delay again. Action.
Now your action may be, because of all the other commitments that you care about, is continuing management. It's a life, can even be a damn good one, albeit with a price.
Or your action is transition. Again it's a life, can be a damn good one, albeit with a price.

WOW, did you live MY life, lol. I appreciate your comment because I was starting to doubt my self...........You see everybody when I wrote WE I meant I&LISA :tongueout

[kellycan27]

I wasn't starting a fight, I just stated an opinion based on information that was in the original post. Everything after that was defensive because of circumstance and "point of view." I do not take kindly to dog piling because my views differ from the collective. And that my opinions do not matter because of the number of posts I have or have not written. It is a little absurd don't you think? There is transmisogyny within the trans community, I'm sure we are all aware of that. Infighting, it seems, comes with the territory. I like passionate people and passionate discussion, and perhaps a little rocking of the boat? I dunno, perhaps I'm a masochist? ;)

I didn't actually say that you were trying to "start" a fight.... I said if you want to "fight the fight" ( meaning fighting for the "cause" ). Woot wott.. society marginalizes us. Woot woot.. there's transmisogony in the TS community. Tell us something that we DON'T know. Not one person said that your opinions do not matter, what they were saying is that after only 11 or 13 posts you might fare better if you get to know people a bit better before you call their opinions "rubbish", because they don't jibe with yours. You say that people are saying that your opinion doesn't matter because of your low post count.. You are saying that someone else's opinion doesn't count because ... It's "rubbish". What's the difference?

[abby39]

I didn't actually say that you were trying to "start" a fight.... I said if you want to "fight the fight" ( meaning fighting for the "cause" ). Woot wott.. society marginalizes us. Woot woot.. there's transmisogony in the TS community. Tell us something that we DON'T know. Not one person said that your opinions do not matter, what they were saying is that after only 11 or 13 posts you might fare better if you get to know people a bit better before you call their opinions "rubbish", because they don't jibe with yours. You say that people are saying that your opinion doesn't matter because of your low post count.. You are saying that someone else's opinion doesn't count because ... It's "rubbish". What's the difference?


You obviously feel a need to have the upper hand? I have already stopped my discussion in this thread. And apologized to the appropriate people for any misunderstanding on my part. So at this point you are "Beating a dead horse." If you want to blather on and on about words and post counts, please continue. I, on the other hand, will not.

[kellycan27]

You obviously feel a need to have the upper hand? I have already stopped my discussion in this thread. And apologized to the appropriate people for any misunderstanding on my part. So at this point you are "Beating a dead horse." If you want to blather on and on about words and post counts, please continue. I, on the other hand, will not.

Well excuse me!, I was answering your latest reply to "me".. At this point I didn't read or re-read what you had posted previous as it had nothing to do with me.

[Nigella]

enough already, this post is not about individuals and being right or wrong. With apolgies to Inna, if members can't keep personalities out of this thread I will close it. Get back to the topic.

[Badtranny]

enough already, this post is not about individuals and being right or wrong. With apolgies to Inna, if members can't keep personalities out of this thread I will close it. Get back to the topic.

I think it should be noted that I had only ONE response. ...and it wasn't even particularly pointy.

Gold star for me! Where do I stick it?

[Thera Home]

(Psssst....achmed is watching):whistling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

:heehee:
thera

[Inna]

come ON! Gold star? you are a BADa..Tranny, bad trannys dont get no gold stars............maybe rhinestone adored pink lace glitzy sparkles dust infused cross my donkey and hope to do the Drag-show star!

[Xrys]

Gold stars are great for that yamanba look.

On a more serious note, I am finaly starting to get to know the real me myself. I am still having a hard time coaxing her out of her bunker though.

[Kathryn Martin]

I did, but it's a bunch of work and the earlier the better

Just carry a can of paint with you and correct the big sign with the correct emblem. Then go about your life. :)


Being trans is just who I am, it is in essence, me

Abby, that is what you said, "being trans, is in essence" you. So don't put too fine a point on it when you say :


"in essence" not "is my essence" Big difference there. I don't really consider it anything, it's just who, and more to the point(I guess), what I am.

Being in essence trans, and suffering from a condition like transsexuality are two different things. One seems to be the internalization of an ideal, the other is a condition to be healed from. Or how would you characterize your state of being?

[Kaz]

come ON! Gold star? you are a BADa..Tranny, bad trannys dont get no gold stars............maybe rhinestone adored pink lace glitzy sparkles dust infused cross my donkey and hope to do the Drag-show star!

If I had gold stars to hand out I know who I would give them to... but where you stick them is your business! Some places hurt more than others! :eek::D:devil:

[kellycan27]

I think it should be noted that I had only ONE response. ...and it wasn't even particularly pointy.

Gold star for me! Where do I stick it?

Too bad they didn't give you two gold stars.. you could have joined us at "Go Topless at Venice Beach" today. :heehee:

[abby39]

I did, but it's a bunch of work and the earlier the better




Abby, that is what you said, "being trans, is in essence" you. So don't put too fine a point on it when you say :



Being in essence trans, and suffering from a condition like transsexuality are two different things. One seems to be the internalization of an ideal, the other is a condition to be healed from. Or how would you characterize your state of being?

Circular logic, awesome.

[ReneeT]

Circular logic, awesome.

You just don't know when to stop, do you? You seem a lot like my 17 y.o. daughter - lots of piss and vinegar but not a whole lot of sense of how best to apply it, so you piss all over everything. Maybe you're 17 as well - if so, you have an excuse

[ReneeT]

Circular logic, awesome.

I just noticed the title above your avatar - how fitting!

[danielleb]

This is kind of a tough thing for me, as it's really easy to turn very dark discussing this. I don't usually in public groups (though I guess I'm going to here :) ).

I was talking with a friend last week and she started down the path of "being blessed to be trans" and I just kind of have heard enough of that and had to speak my true feelings on it. How to not truly know yourself for the vast majority of your life is not a reward. It's true that it is a blessing that we are forced to confront oursleves in a way that others not in our shoes will never have to do, but isn't never having to do it really the blessing? Ignorance is bliss! ;)

In the sense of being being trans is not in any way a disabililty or impedance on our lives. In evolutionary terms, if you subscribe to the theory that we are in large part a result of stressful birthing, trans people provide a person that is in touch with both sides of gender and thereby is able to be more useful in either role alleaviating stress on a struggling mother/family.

It's how society and all others (and ultimately ourselves) around us manage and manipulate us into what we become that becomes the burden we all carry, and there is nothing blessed about that!

I ended up making my friend cry, in retrospect I think in part because she is older than I am and has had to endure many more years of repression, and I felt really awful. But I just couldn't stand to drink the cool-aid and try to hide the darkness. It's there, we all have it, we can never outrun it, we can't escape it, but we can all decide when we're ready to leave it behind us and allow ourselves to begin to know ourselves.

[LeaP]

Inflicted or blessed? Sometimes I think one, sometimes the other. I have to say, though, that whatever God had in mind that the practical effect in my life has DEFINITELY that I've been afflicted by being trans. The blessings are in passing reflections of rarity, perspective, and opportunity. All overwhelmed in the flood of negatives that accrue from living hidden away. It has affected every aspect of my life in profound ways.

As such pain is the experience of almost all transsexuals, in the spirit of simple literary license, I have no problem whatsoever with Inna's "all."

[LisaMallon]

Melissa, "where should I stick it"? Do you really want an honest answer to that?:laughing::laughing::lol::lol:

Renee, she reminds of me of 20 years ago .. I'd never let an argument go. Tolerance, tolerance. Nothing wrong with a bit of piss and vinegar at times, shakes us all up.

[Kathryn Martin]

Circular logic, awesome.

Whose circular logic is it though? Yours or mine? Or are you disavowing your words? Being a poet (who clearly needs to check her spelling), as you claim, you know the power of language, but occasionally self absorption can get the better of you. You made a claim that you call it as you see it:
And if people want to post rubbish, then they should expect to be called out on itYou have an uncanny ability to step in to every grease pot you can find as can be seen here:
Did you see that? I used the word rubbish! I got all British just for you!You may think that that would be funny, sarcasm mistaken for whit, the last resort of the ignorant. All it shows to me, Abby, is a strong stench of the disingenuous nature of your discourse. You opine away, yet have an astounding lack of judgement. Those that post here live a life, by their own volition, which is anything but easy. They have made the tough life decisions being transsexual demand of you and many have lived for some and even a long time as women. They have also conversed intensely about the many of the subjects that frequently come up on a board such as this. This is a welcoming place, but please treat people with respect and an inner affection for those fellow wanderers and those that have walked this path for a long time.

You apologized, but an apology has no weight if you just keep doing what you apologized for.

Now I predict that you might consider this to be the wrong place for you, because of the general reaction to your comments. That would be a sad mistake, because here you will find much genuine and real conversation about the issues we are all afflicted with.




This is kind of a tough thing for me, as it's really easy to turn very dark discussing this. I don't usually in public groups (though I guess I'm going to here :) ).

I was talking with a friend last week and she started down the path of "being blessed to be trans" and I just kind of have heard enough of that and had to speak my true feelings on it. How to not truly know yourself for the vast majority of your life is not a reward. It's true that it is a blessing that we are forced to confront oursleves in a way that others not in our shoes will never have to do, but isn't never having to do it really the blessing? Ignorance is bliss! ;)

In the sense of being being trans is not in any way a disabililty or impedance on our lives. In evolutionary terms, if you subscribe to the theory that we are in large part a result of stressful birthing, trans people provide a person that is in touch with both sides of gender and thereby is able to be more useful in either role alleaviating stress on a struggling mother/family.

It's how society and all others (and ultimately ourselves) around us manage and manipulate us into what we become that becomes the burden we all carry, and there is nothing blessed about that!

I ended up making my friend cry, in retrospect I think in part because she is older than I am and has had to endure many more years of repression, and I felt really awful. But I just couldn't stand to drink the cool-aid and try to hide the darkness. It's there, we all have it, we can never outrun it, we can't escape it, but we can all decide when we're ready to leave it behind us and allow ourselves to begin to know ourselves.

While I agree with much of the sentiment expressed in your post I would disagree with some of the things you say. I think that being transsexual is a disability in the sense that you are born in a body which is not a mirror of your inner experience of who you are. Being transsexual is not a an experience in which you are in touch with both sides of gender, but rather being of a gender and finding yourself cloaked in the wrong body. Societal condition is sex directed not gender directed, the expectation is that if you are born with a penis you are expected to take on certain behaviors no matter how much grief you experience in doing so.
If you wander along the tightrope of gender variance seeking a place where you can exist you might not be transsexual but fluid in your inner gender experience. This is a very different state of being to what I described above.
Neither is a walk in the park and both are afflictions which constantly confront us with the question of “who am I”. Being slapped in the face with that question deepens our introspection to levels which are at best a blessing in the disguise of a hard life. And in that hardness of life lies your, mine and every transsexuals and gender variant persons darkness. It is in suffering through confusion and uncertainty that we experience darkness. But we are capable of walking through that valley of despair and find a bright life on the other end.

I wrote this little piece many years ago

Years
My closet was taken
By a corpse
Gone it is
What deliverance


Now I am past transition, I have walked all of the way.

[Kate Simmons]

You can't help but become spiritual when you truly know yourself Hon.:)