If you couldn't dress, what would you do? No TS responses please.

[ElleduSud]

This is a follow-on to an earlier thread

Transsexuals please do not reply. I understand your need to present an external image which matches the female inside.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?179784-If-you-could-.../page2

I didn't want to hijack that thread, but there were a lot of responses of "I can't quit". I'm curious why you feel that another form of expressing femininity would not meet your needs?

There are other feminine activities which you can easily pursue that wouldn't have as much of a negative impact on your social and family relationships or put your career at risk:

Baking
Candle or soap making
Home decorating
Jewelry making
Clothing design
Sewing
Volunteering at schools and daycares
Needlepoint
Scrap booking
Candy making

Why don't these meet your need to do something feminine?

[heathr1]

I am considering doing a beauty course at night school.

[GaleWarning]

I am a teacher. 'Nuff said!

[Saffron]

somehow I find it offensive that people label things like baking, home decorating or even volunteering (?) as feminine.

I don't go to the cinema to express my feminity or masculinity. I simply do it cause it's fun and I like it, just like CD.

[BRANDYJ]

somehow I find it offensive that people label things like baking, home decorating or even volunteering (?) as feminine.

I don't go to the cinema to express my feminity or masculinity. I simply do it cause it's fun and I like it, just like CD.

I agree. The things you list as being something women do is insulting to not only women, but to men who do the same things.

[reb.femme]

There are other feminine activities which you can easily pursue that wouldn't have as much of a negative impact on your social and family relationships or put your career at risk:

Baking, Candle or soap making, Home decorating, Jewelry making, Clothing design, Sewing, Volunteering at schools and daycares, Needlepoint, Scrap booking, Candy making

Why don't these meet your need to do something feminine?

Do I get to wear my femme clothes whilst doing these activities? In which case, I don't see how these tasks fulfil any of my femme needs.

I enjoy presenting as female, not doing a host of stereotypical female tasks. Since these are all femme tasks, I'll be taking my wife to task over not doing some of these things routinely. :heehee:

Rebecca x

[Kate Simmons]

The thing is that none of these activities are necessarily feminine. They are mostly associated with home making, which is not really gender specific. Most of it has to do with who we are as a person and how we express that. The above mentioned chores have to get done whether we consider ourselves a man or a woman really.:)

[Pexetta]

Baking as a feminine activity... a few weeks back my parents came to visit. Dad was helping me put up a fence post and Mum wanted something to do other than watch. So I asked her please to make me some bread dough out of a pre-prepared bowl of flour, yeast and fat that I had ready for later. She didn't know how, I had to show her.

[Laura912]

Gazing into the crystal ball, one can see where this is going. People will snipe at you for stereotyping. Bang.

[Momarie]

I agree. The things you list as being something women do is insulting to not only women, but to men who do the same things.

My post was deleted...sadly and unfortunately.

So what BRANDYJ said...
Her HEART speaks my unfortunate words, only prettily

[heatherdress]

If I couldn't dress, I would secretly and discretely buy clothes and make-up. I would find a place to keep them without detection. I would dress in private to prevent being discovered. That's what I would do if I could not dress. Hmmm. That's what I do now.

[Tracii G]

I would just do the eyeliner and mascara.

[kimdl93]

Elle, I always have difficulty with "if" questions because its hard for me to suspend the rules of my life to accomodate hypotheticals. I do have a number of feminine interests and expressions...with the exception of caring for my grandkids, none made your list. And I love to shop, but what would be the point, if I couldn't wear the things I bought?

And I don't think that candle making, scrap booking, child care or sewing express my need or desire to present as a woman....or to be seen as a woman.

[giuseppina]

Hello Elle,

All of the activities you mention fall into the 'art' category, which has nothing to do with gender.

Your post leaves the appearance of stereotyping, which most people, gender variant or not, find objectionable.

To answer your question, I would find a way to conceal my dressing, including but not limited to obtaining a high security box to store my things.

[whowhatwhen]

Easy.
Let go of all the BS "manly" stereotypes I've been forced into.

So, while sewing isn't necessarily a female activity, I'm free to enjoy it without caring how I will be perceived.
Seriously. Let go of it all, life is so much better when you realize that "manliness" is just made up BS designed to sell products and exclaim how totally NOT GAY you are.

*Note: The real men out there don't need to follow those stereotypes, they are who they are and do what they do naturally.

[outhiking]

Even though we want to avoid gender stereotyping, the fact is that when I take a class in pastels or painting, or when I visit Joann Fabrics or Michaels, or when I read sewing and clothing web sites, they are for the most part full of female participants. I enjoy art and visiting these places and the ladies there always treat me a little bit special because I'm a guy, sometimes the only one around.

Just my $.04 (inflation)

[Senior Dresser]

If I could not dress I would try to learn female stance positions

[StephanieJ]

My (soon to be ex) wife suggested that a good alternative to cross dressing might be to make my male wardrobe more androgynous. She suggested a kind of "metro" look, with unisex clothing, clear nail polish, minimal makeup, "female stance positions", etc... While I'll admit that it doesn't diminish the desire to cross dress, it does satiate it a bit.

[kittypw GG]

My post was deleted...sadly and unfortunately.

So what BRANDYJ said...
Her HEART speaks my unfortunate words, only prettily

Momarie,
If only you had approached this much like a doctor who is presented with a list of symptoms, your reply would not have been deleted?

The important thing is to be who you are, and do the things you like to do. What you wear should be secondary to who you are. Do what you like to do, not what you "perceive" as feminine.

[Kaz]

I just want to add tp the stereotyping issue... I listened to an interview with a top chef in the UK recently and he said that if he hadn't done the cookery classes at school, he would never have done this... realised that he could and all that. When I was at school boys did woodwork and metalwork, and girls did the other... that was stereotyping and social conditioning. Thankfully, my working life has seen me working with women all my life in a mutually accepted environment. We have male nurses in what was previously a 'woman's' role, we have women who are politicians, soldiers, lawyers, award winning movie directors and CEOs of HP?

If I couldn't dress, I would like to run HP to bring out the femme side of me! I'd like the salary too!

[Engendered]

Hi Elle,
I think some of the criticism directed towards you is unfair, and people are reading into the list you provided too much. The spirit of your post certainly comes across as a partner who really wants to understand..and get to the root of a certain feeling/experience. So why is dressing so important? Are there things that could take the place of that? Why can't <whatever someone thinks of as a girly activity>, but which doesn't carry the same risks, be a good substitute? I hit reply, because I didn't instantly know how to answer, and it's nice to explore these thoughts sometimes.

Firstly and plainly, there isn't a substitute solution for me. Take away dressing, and I can be immersed in a world of feminine activities, and not find anything to fill what was lost. So then, what's so special about dressing up? It's not a straightforward thing to answer (maybe it is, and I'm just not smart enough to think of it). There are a few important aspects to it though. It's encompassing..I mean this in a very literal way...the clothes are physically around you. It's tactile, and it's constant and consistent. It's also visual, and in the now. These things make it an immersive experience and a personal one. With other activities,..there's a process or procedure to follow..making a candle..following a knitting pattern..it's somehow external to you as a person. It's something you're doing. Being dressed in female clothes is an end of itself...something you're feeling, something you're being. I know that's not entirely satisfactory as an answer.

I have a terrible analogy about the difficulty of explaining things like this, which I've promised myself I'll make better in the future. Imagine a world where everyone is deaf..but you're not. When you hit the keys on a piano, you hear notes..you love the music, but all everyone else sees is that you seem to get enjoyment out of hitting keys. They can't hear the music. They suggest..well couldn't you press these things over here..wouldn't that be just as good? How about tapping this switch? I feel like crossdressing is just as difficult to explain. I'm not saying there's something as magical as unheard music for us, but there's a definite and unique feeling that goes with it...to lift a mood, or ...like the feeling you feel when you unwind into a nice bubble bath. Your brain just says..."Yes, this is nice...life is good sometimes" :)

[April_Ligeia]

I have done everything on your list at one time or another and, frankly, i don't see any relationship at all between those activities and crossdressing.

[Beverley Sims]

Baking,yes :Candle or soap making, No :Home decorating, yes :Jewelry making, Yes :Clothing design, No :Sewing, Yes :Volunteering at schools and daycares, No :Needlepoint, No :Scrap booking, No :Candy making, Yes.
I involve myself in five out of ten of those activities so I am half and half.
To tip the scales I cross dress as well.
That makes me about 57.45% feminine. :)
I need to present an external image which matches the female inside. :)

[Michaela42]

As so many have 'blasted' you already, some of the responses are very stereotypical, but rather than snipe, I will say that not all stereotypes are wrong or 'mean'.

For me, thanks to my living situation, dressing is pretty much out of the question. To 'take the edge off' I enjoy writing fantasies about being able to dress and do as I please. I also enjoy reading about style, makeup, and topics like that. I also tend to go shopping a great deal.

Again these are pretty stereotypical things, but I do not view them as 'BAD' things. Unfortunately our society seems to enjoy making mountains out of proverbial mole-hills rather than work on more pressing matters.

/end mini'rant'

[sissystephanie]

If I couldn't dress, I would just find something else to do. I did stop completely for a 5 year period, and it certainly did not hurt me in any way. I only started dressing enfemme again because my dear wife begged me to!! She had decided that she missed Stephanie in her life!! Anyone can stop dressing enfemme, if they really want to! Unless they are being forced to crossdress, and I doubt that those of us on this forum are being forced!!

I have done most of the things on your list, except for sewing, clothes designing, needlepoint, and scrapbooking! I can sew, but don't like to! My dear late wife did all the things that I mentioned, so there was no need for me to do them!

[docrobbysherry]

I don't do anything fem anyway! Up to and including Sherry! Unless it has to do with dressing.

What would I do if I stopped dressing? TOO SIMPLE! Clean and repair: my cars, house, sheds, garages, office, closets, and life! Probably watch A LOT MORE SPORTS on TV! Go back to the gym. And, get out with vanilla folks I know more, too!

[AllieSF]

Sissystephanie, why is it you are the only one that I have seen here who says that a crossdresser can stop crossdressing completely and forever if they want to. I myself do not know if that is possible and I respect your opinion. However, you stopped only temporarily and then state that your wife basically coerced you to start again. Why did you stop and why don't you stop again? I know you do not have to stop, as well as, you did not have to restart being the independent man in women's clothing that you are. Somehow your reasoning does not make sense to me.

Now on to our regularly scheduled response to the OP.

In my opinion, crossdressing means dressing in the opposite gender's clothes. The hobbies/activities that you listed are just that hobbies/activities. I personally sometimes think of what I do dressed like a hobby or going to a lot of masquerade parties dressing with a similar theme in different outfits. Now, since I also believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if one considers the activities that you listed as things they can do and also feel feminine doing them, that is just fine. One poster, Mikaila, actually does do something to take the edge off the desire to dress and the frustration that she can not dress. That sounds very understandable to me, substituting some type of alternate activity for the the one that can not happen. What many here have said that the activities that you listed are not necessarily reserved for only women, I would hazard a fairly accurate guess that they once were considered very much reserved for the women's side of the world, and probably still are performed mostly by women. Maybe the jewelry making might be primarily done by men, but who knows. I sure don't. I do not know why some here get upset because you have your view of things that give you an outlet to express yourself. I do not think that you were being deliberately disrespectful.

I am fortunate so far that I can pretty much dress and go out when I want, or can find someone to go with me. I also enjoy, when not dressed, to go shopping, read fashion mags and come to this site.

[JenniferR771]

Good question Ellud,
Born this way. I think that crossdressers get a kick out of seeing themselves as women. I agree with Ray Blanchard when he promotes this idea. Women's clothes are not always necessary. Makeup and pretty hair would probably be enough for some. Silicone prostheses would be interesting to most. I think it has to be visual. Men are visual. A mirror is almost a necessity.

Would you ever get a makeover and not look at yourself in the mirror?

[Silmaril]

I enjoy presenting as female, not doing a host of stereotypical female tasks.

Rebecca has summarized my answer. One's gender is a complex blend of biology, behavior, and appearance. Biology is a pretty cut & dried matter of genetics: XX = Girl, XY = Boy. Behaviors (e.g., mannerisms, roles, etc.) are much harder to sort into "Boy" and "Girl" outside of falling back of the old stereotypes ...which I think you offered innocently as a way to sort things out.

But what you've overlooked is that the thing that binds us together here isn't so much the genetic or behavioral facet of gender; it's the *appearance* part. Speaking for myself, I feel more "at one" with myself when I am dressed so that I *appear* as female as I commonly feel inside. In contrast to the famous expression, clothes *do* make the man ...or in this case, the woman.

So switching *behaviors* for *appearance* could never be a substitute. Think of it this way: to be healthy, I need to eat, drink, sleep, and exercise. If the world frowned on me eating, it wouldn't be a solution to just exercise more. Eating and exercising are related but separate facets of health.

Appearance and behavior are related facets of gender, but they aren't interchangeable.

[DonnaT]

Even if the things on your list were "female only", how would doing them equate to dressing and satisfy that desire/urge to dress?

If I craved an orange I wouldn't find a banana satisfying!

If I couldn't dress, as in had none of the essential clothes? I'd do what I did as a kid and modify what clothes I did have, to make a skirt.

[AllieSF]

Donna, I think that by doing some activities that one considers typical feminine activities, whether they are typical or not doesn't really matter, is not unrealistic. Each of us has had certain feelings when dressed that made us happy, content, less stressed, or whatever. So, if you can't ride a bike and you want to, I see no reason that by working on your bike or reading bicycle magazines or planning an imaginary bike tour, would not help relieve some of that frustration of being prevented from riding. No, it is definitely not the same, but since it is something in the bicycling area, it may help some take the edge off that frustration. So, that may be considered to partially satisfy the need/desire. No big deal. I bet a lot of people do that in their daily lives regarding things that have nothing to do with crossdressing.

[carhill2mn]

For me, so-called "feminine" activities are not a bit satisfying. I could do those regardles of how I was presenting myself. I need to wear the clothes, makeup, jewelry, shoes, etc. and do my best to look and act like a lady.

[Sarah Doepner]

I would try all sorts of things that wouldn't scratch that itch, then I'd slowly start feeling angry, snap at people for no good reason and generally turn into an ass. That's what happened in the past when I've had to go extended periods when I couldn't dress.

[Frédérique]

If you couldn't dress, what would you do?

I can’t really tell you, but it would involve a LOT of kneeling... :heehee:

[TGMarla]

I honestly don't know. And yet, that day may be coming. Nothing does it for me like dressing does. Nothing. I can present a mental image to myself of myself en femme, and that works for a short while. But inevitably, it only makes the urge to dress and actually present female even stronger. I already bake and engage in other culinary delights, but all that other stuff doesn't work for me.

[Miranda09]

If I couldn't dress, I'd just continue with my life as it currently is. While I find dressing a lot of fun, and a good way to relax at the end of the day, not to mention a way to play around with photography, it wouldn't be the end of the world! :)

[gender_blender]

I would just run around naked if I wasn't allowed to dress. I don't consider the activities listed necessarily feminine in nature. I'm sure more crossdressers would just make use of photoshop.

[linda allen]

somehow I find it offensive that people label things like baking, home decorating or even volunteering (?) as feminine...
I don't find it "offensive", but I do think it's sad that so many people still put activities in "male" or "female" categories.

When I was growing up, in school, the boys were ecpected to take shop classes and the girls to take home economics (cooking, sewing, etc.). That was a long time ago and I would like to think that most folks have a different outlook on this in this day and age.

[linda allen]

"If you couldn't dress, what would you do? "

I would stop dressing.

There are many reasons that any of us might face that situation someday and we would hope we would have the willpower to put away our girlie things and dress like men.

Examples:
You join the military and live with other men.
You go to jail or prison.
A child or parent moves in with you or you with them.
You have to live in a rehab center or nursing home.

[Sarasometimes]

Qouted from Engendered:

I have a terrible analogy about the difficulty of explaining things like this, which I've promised myself I'll make better in the future. Imagine a world where everyone is deaf..but you're not. When you hit the keys on a piano, you hear notes..you love the music, but all everyone else sees is that you seem to get enjoyment out of hitting keys. They can't hear the music. They suggest..well couldn't you press these things over here..wouldn't that be just as good? How about tapping this switch? I feel like crossdressing is just as difficult to explain. I'm not saying there's something as magical as unheard music for us, but there's a definite and unique feeling that goes with it...to lift a mood, or ...like the feeling you feel when you unwind into a nice bubble bath. Your brain just says..."Yes, this is nice...life is good sometimes"

I think you are onto something here!!

Baking
Candle or soap making
Home decorating
Jewelry making
Clothing design
Sewing
Volunteering at schools and daycares
Needlepoint
Scrap booking
Candy making

I don't like these activities other than on occasion; Baking, jewelry making and I volunteer already but not at those places. (People who volunteer at schools and daycares aren't feminine they just have a great tolerance for other peoples kids. Mine aren't bratty so I just spend more time with them.)
I need to express my feminity by wearing women's clothes, wearing makeup, having my hair and nails doen so I would just do the other stuff not dressed.

[Cheryl T]

Why don't these meet your need to do something feminine?

Probably because it's not a need to DO something feminine, but a need to express that part of me that IS feminine.

[ReineD]

I agree with several of the other members. The activities you listed fall under the label of homemaking or artistic expression, which many single and married men do anyway. I doubt all these men feel the slightest bit feminine when they cook, paint, sing in a choir, play a musical instrument, sew on buttons and mend a tear in an item of clothing, clean their apartments, collect art, decorate their apartments, etc. There are also male clothing designers, professional chefs, interior designers, airline attendants, hair stylers, nurses, kindergarden teachers, volunteers, etc, who also identify as men. :)

That said, I do think there is a phenomenon particular to some CDers (I believe not so much among the younger crowd), where they might have segregated certain activities while younger. They might have made subconscious decisions to not engage in what they might have perceived as feminine activities in order to keep the world from guessing their internal alternative genders. I know that my own SO told me (she is in her 50s), for the longest time she believed that doing certain things like collecting art or taking dance lessons was a feminine thing to do, and he therefore had not given himself permission do these things in guy mode, even though he embraces feminist ideals. But, this changed over the years, in fact it was my SO's feminine expression that helped her to better integrate him/herself, and now s/he does everything s/he wants to do in both modes. Yet, this has not affected her need to present as a woman on occasion. She needs to see a reflection of who she feels she is internally.

It's not easy, looking like one or the other gender when one feels a combination of both genders all the time. How does one express this in a world where the gender gap has all but disappeared when it comes to higher education, career choices, even gender roles in marriages?

[kimdl93]

[QUOTE=ReineD;2942633]I That said, I do think there is a phenomenon particular to some CDers (I believe not so much among the younger crowd), where they might have segregated certain activities while younger. They might have made subconscious decisions to not engage in what they might have perceived as feminine activities in order to keep the world from guessing their internal alternative genders. QUOTE]

My god, you have described me to a "T". When I realized that things I was doing were the cause of some teasing by my older male siblings, I quickly learned to avoid those interests and behaviors. I remember in particular that when my nephew was 6 months old, and I was 8 years old, I was caring for him while the family celebrated Christmas. The aunts made a big deal about how good I was with the baby...and I knew right away I'd let something out that I shouldn't have. Isn't that sad.

[Kaz]

I agree with several of the other members. The activities you listed fall under the label of homemaking or artistic expression, which many single and married men do anyway. I doubt all these men feel the slightest bit feminine when they cook, paint, sing in a choir, play a musical instrument, sew on buttons and mend a tear in an item of clothing, clean their apartments, collect art, decorate their apartments, etc. There are also male clothing designers, professional chefs, interior designers, airline attendants, hair stylers, nurses, kindergarden teachers, volunteers, etc, who also identify as men. :)

That said, I do think there is a phenomenon particular to some CDers (I believe not so much among the younger crowd), where they might have segregated certain activities while younger. They might have made subconscious decisions to not engage in what they might have perceived as feminine activities in order to keep the world from guessing their internal alternative genders. I know that my own SO told me (she is in her 50s), for the longest time she believed that doing certain things like collecting art or taking dance lessons was a feminine thing to do, and he therefore had not given himself permission do these things in guy mode, even though he embraces feminist ideals. But, this changed over the years, in fact it was my SO's feminine expression that helped her to better integrate him/herself, and now s/he does everything s/he wants to do in both modes. Yet, this has not affected her need to present as a woman on occasion. She needs to see a reflection of who she feels she is internally.

It's not easy, looking like one or the other gender when one feels a combination of both genders all the time. How does one express this in a world where the gender gap has all but disappeared when it comes to higher education, career choices, even gender roles in marriages?

I don't see gender defined by roles any more and maybe that is part of the issue... I work in 'professional services' for want of a better term. i.e. my job is about thinking and writing rather than making... not as productive as making and doing I admit... and I just see my job as another 'role'... I am non-hierarchical in my nature.

Women can do pretty much what they want. OK they have to pass the test to get the job. But so does anyone.

So where does this leave 'female' activities? At this stage I am a feminist... there are no roles that are just for women... uugh well maybe having kids, bringing them up, looking after everything while dad is away on his endless business trips and his endless 'networking' meetings... NO! This is not women's work this is about bringing up a family - a combined effort!

Once upon a time the effort was divided according to capability... men did physical stuff... women did... OK different physical stuff... but it worked and gender was there.... these days things are a little less clear...?

[ReineD]

The aunts made a big deal about how good I was with the baby...and I knew right away I'd let something out that I shouldn't have. Isn't that sad.

Exactly! Yet someone whose gender identity or dispositions never veered from coinciding with their birth gender, would have taken your aunt's comment as a compliment, even if externally he might have protested had a male cousin been in the room (this pecking order thing that boys get into) lol. But internally, he would have felt pride over the compliment. My oldest son is 9 years older than my youngest. He was the model big brother with the new baby. He was so loving and nurturing, he used to love to have the baby sleep on his chest when he was watching TV, and he took great pride in knowing how good he was with him.

Still, I think that most CDers, even if they've segregated a part of themselves when they were younger, do eventually bring it all together especially after they reach a point of self-acceptance about who they are.

So to answer Elle, I think it all goes hand-in-hand: the self-acceptance over wanting to look like a woman, and engaging in many activities that CDers had previously denied themselves, no matter what their personal tastes are or how they had previously defined "feminine" vs. "masculine" activity.

[Kristyn Hill]

I am a Chef and was born this way. It picked me just like dressing. My desire to be the best cook had nothing to do with pursuing fem desires. In fact, the opposite. If I couldn't dress or be fem at times, I guess, I would write more music, play more guitar, paint more pictures and pursue more photography. oh yeah, my 2nd biggest passion, womens shoe design.

[Sapphire]

In some parts of Africa and probably also elsewhere in the world anthropologists have documented instances of transgendered behaviour that seem to rely significantly on hair style and perhaps less on clothing to reflect an inner desire to cross the gender divide.

One can imagine how even in a community where nudity is the norm nature would continue to give rise to transgendered behaviours - not just in relation to hairstyling but also involving body decoration, music, dance, preference for certain types of work, etc. This is not to in any way meant to denigrate or sexually stereotype these aspects of life but simply to suggest that the dynamics of cross-dressing may be rooted more deeply and more diversely than may be suggested by cross-dressing. In other words: I strongly suspect that it’s not just about clothes.

As to why we focus so much on clothes: clothing is a very high profile differentiator between men and women in contemporary western culture and therein one suspect is based the allure of cross-dressing. By comparison flower arranging does not carry the same charge.

[Thera Home]

My post was deleted...sadly and unfortunately.

So what BRANDYJ said...
Her HEART speaks my unfortunate words, only prettily

Hi Momarie
Don't worry, they delete or rearrange mine all the time. Anyway, the mods are just doing thier jobs in keeping this place civil.

Volunteering at schools and daycares......not.I have trouble keeping up with mine let alone watching someelse's brats.........NO Thank You. If I can't dress no problem with me. I'll just find something else to entertain myself with.:heehee:

Thera

[Love2Dress]

If I wasn't dressing, I would be fantasizing about dressing, it would be constantly on my mind, apparently it's not healthy to starve yourself of it, because it messes with you psychologically

[STACY B]

Hell I tried that already ,,,Thats why I am here ,,, Answer your question Drink a quart of Vodka an a case of Bud- lite a day ,,, Now what ? Now Im drink Free ,, Problem solved ,, Aint life Great ,,,

[ReineD]

In some parts of Africa and probably also elsewhere in the world anthropologists have documented instances of transgendered behaviour that seem to rely significantly on hair style and perhaps less on clothing to reflect an inner desire to cross the gender divide.

One can imagine how even in a community where nudity is the norm nature would continue to give rise to transgendered behaviours - not just in relation to hairstyling but also involving body decoration, music, dance, preference for certain types of work, etc. This is not to in any way meant to denigrate or sexually stereotype these aspects of life but simply to suggest that the dynamics of cross-dressing may be rooted more deeply and more diversely than may be suggested by cross-dressing. In other words: I strongly suspect that it’s not just about clothes.

As to why we focus so much on clothes: clothing is a very high profile differentiator between men and women in contemporary western culture and therein one suspect is based the allure of cross-dressing. By comparison flower arranging does not carry the same charge.

Brilliant, and so very true!

[Tamara Croft]

I can't figure out why some of you are just so rude? The OP (A GG I might add) might do some if not all of these hobbies, which she might find feminine, then some of you go blast her for trying to make conversation? I mean seriously... notice how she hasn't replied? probably because of all the horrible comments.... Sometimes you lot make my damn blood boil :Angry3:

[JohannaSophia]

In childhood I saw my dad naked a lot and openly but my mother rarely and somewhat surreptitiously. But I really knew who I wanted to look like, the pretty one!

About the time I was entering adolescence I had the privacy to take the situation in hand, my mom would let me stay home that summer to read while she shopped in the nearest town, 14 miles away.

I was already too big at the time to wear more than her open bottomed girdle so being naked tucked with my boy boobs walking, reading and ogling myself in the mirror and not much dressing was my start.

Even now I would just as soon be naked below at home with whatever I need up top to support cleavage, now that and a nice wig I would miss. I would miss my thong underwear too but I go commando a lot anyway.

Seems there are usually more GG's anyway at Power, Kick, Zumba, Spin, and when we go out dancing. So I guess they count as feminine already. I would not plan to add more and I could survive without dressing but maybe not without tucking and pushing some cleavage up for me and my mirror.

[Aloha Jayne]

I've given this a lot of thought. Because my SO is so dead set against my dressing, I'm having to come up with ways to feel feminine without the clothes. For me, I love being pretty, and the clothes help me do that, but it's not about the clothes. I can feel pretty with my nails done and some jewelry. Unless I'm looking in a mirror, the only thing of me I can see are my hands anyway.

But I have identified activities I do that I associate with the female side of me. Photography, playing music, having my breath taken away by a georgeous sunset or dancing. All of those things are also done by men. But for me, I see colors and textures more vividly when en femme, and even prefer different styles of music. And if my wife won't let me dress, I can enjoy being female while dancing to a hot groove in nothin' but my attitude!

[whowhatwhen]

Also, just adding that baking is awesome and you (and I once again) should all start ASAP.
Maybe some nice muffins...

[noeleena]

Hi,

For myself i dought im feminine ill let others judge me on that, im just one of those people who get on & do what ever needs doing reguardless what it is im a maker mender sorter out of problems & a fixer, .

As to dressing it would not make any difference what i wear,i could wear a sack though id make it pretty. with pink, im still who i am & that has never changed me from my core inner who i am , i have changed in many ways in being who i am just clothes dont have a bearing on the matter.

Now as a interesting point your list goes well for both boys & girls at school we had the domestic's manly for young women why because when many left school they may go to work yet many would be looking at marrage, so the domestic's were in keeping for those young women. 1950's to 1960's

How many did woodwork that came many years later. or repars to machinery .

is it a stereotype maybe or is it more in keeping with what men expected when looking at a mate. & what were women looking for as a mate. put it in context with our last 1000 years then see if it has changed,

Reversall of roles men doing the domestic's & women working who wears what then.

Remember our women were teaching our younger women to prepare for marrage & haveing children. that goes back many 1000's of years,

What would i need to do to make me more femminine nothing because im a woman. not all women are feminine . just so you know im not trans ether,

...noeleena...

[Thera Home]

I can't figure out why some of you are just so rude? The OP (A GG I might add) might do some if not all of these hobbies, which she might find feminine, then some of you go blast her for trying to make conversation? I mean seriously... notice how she hasn't replied? probably because of all the horrible comments.... Sometimes you lot make my damn blood boil :Angry3:

We were just answering her question?:eek:

we luv you Momarie

Thera

[NicoleScott]

Why don't these meet your need to do something feminine?

For some of us, it IS about the clothes, shoes, wigs, makeup, etc.
I don't dress up just to be doing something feminine.
But if I couldn't dress? .......I have no answer. I have always needed to find a way.