Help me understand why surgery is "Elective", "Non Essential"," Cosmetic"

[CorrieK]

Or Life & Death for that matter. Here I am ready to mutilate myself or worse because of lack of funds. My quality of life is terrible. I gorge on food because I am stressed, that certainly could lead to a premature death. All because in many ways I feel the perception is "Oh this is just something you want, not need" Given the choice I would rather be fighting cancer or something else than this..

There are so many reasons why I know this is necessary, as soon as possible. I am fine with hormones the rest of my life, but if surgery helps reduce the risk of taking them with lower amounts, why not?

As for surgery, there are almost countless reasons why it is necessary. Since I was little whats down there always felt foreign. I hated it. I even took measures to hurt or remove it myself in my teens. Fortunately there was no damage I am aware of, but those thoughts are still there. Whether I go to the bathroom or wear a skirt. I get so disgusted with myself. Then I think What happens if I die? I don't want to get buried as a male, but in my state that is exactly what will happen, not sure a will can overwrite the law. I am closing in on my 30s fast, the health risks will only increase.

Work makes me miserable sometimes. I have to check ids for credit cards and checks sometimes, and it depresses me seeing female on drivers licenses. Until I can have surgery, Oklahoma will not change it on my drivers license. I've tried using my original birth certificate that says female. I have tried everything I can think of, but despite being on hormones six solid years nothing. Despite having borderline natural C breasts, nothing.

So despite how pretty I may look, there is still that blemish down there, and another reminder of society trying to tell me what to me than what I am inside and slowly becoming outside. Tucking is so uncomfortable, and it anchors my thoughts down because it is a constant reminder of the ongoing struggle.

Even though no one hardly looks twice when I go out, I still neutral some days just because that confidence is not there, because I am afraid something with slip out or show. I worry more about that then my bad hairline. Hard to be a girly girl which is what I am.

As much as I love swimming, I have not been in many years. First I could not fit into that role of the guy swimmer (shirtless w/ trunks), and seeing all the girls in their bikinis made me feel like a freak. What happens if I go to the beach and something slips out? It is the same thing at work. So many women come in with their dresses and skirts and I can't do that. Mostly because our dress code forbids it, but even at a job where I could (and would love to), as long as the parts are down there I would be extremely uncomfortable. I just don't feel complete.

There is a huge safety issue as well. I walk to work many times a week. I am only 5'5, and fairly small. My mom died being hit by a car. My fear is that I will look like an easy target walking down the street. Certainly a young female is a bigger target to get robbed than a big dude. What happens if they want to do more? They find out I have guy parts and then what? Surely I would get beaten, or worse.

Which comes to the next point. What if I do meet a guy I want to be with? Spur of the moments happen, what if he gets a surprise he was not expecting? I would feel better about stealth, as with my social skills I am not sure I would have the heart to tell. Yes that sounds bad. Certainly would try to inform preop, but better safe than sorry. When I think of sex I always think of myself on the receiving end, and participating as woman.

Self pleasure the guy way makes me sick and I have not done it in several years any way. That doesn't mean I don't feel the need to let one out every now and then, but I do not have any discharge anymore and that has been amazing. Random erections are practically gone and I could not be more happy. I developed a nice rubbing/fingering technique that is I enjoy better than jacking it, but you can only adapt so far.

Basically as it as I cannot live the life I was meant to live without surgery. I thought by now after so many years of honest hard work and patience I would get there. Now I fear I will have to take a turn for the worse. I am to the point of entering the "adult industry" and committing several acts of fraud to get to where I need to be. I have handled legal matters, and they are nothing compared to what I am going through now. I just don't know how much I have left in me to stay strong.

The general perception, even among some of the surgeons, that this is an optional thing is driving me crazy.

[SuzieLod]

Its most certainly is elective, non essential and cosmetic. The insurance company is a business, there to make money, and not into spending it on something that is not health related. And your argument that connects it with mental health may well make sense to you but not to them, it opens too many doors.

The next thing is, did you look into possibilities overseas? THE COST DIFFERENCE CAN BE MIND BOGGLING. AND THE ARGUMENT THAT ITS NO GOOD CAUSE ITS NO THE "OLD USA" IS SOMEWHAT FACETIOUS.

Is general health care in third world countries at par with ours? The answer is that in most cases it is not. But when you are willing and able to pay very top fees (like a multiple bypass in India for $2,500 everything included, and then up few hundred if your requirements are somewhat bigger) gives you access to the very best over there.

at least 10% of Indians have the resources and demand best care AND GET IT. That means that it is available.

Same criteria applies to many other countries. They all have the very top tier of their medical profession taking care of those who can afford their level, and it is GOOD. BETTER TAN USA in some aspects I can assure you.

Or you can of course keep on suffering for another six years, or hope against hope to get hold of the $$ you require outside of insurance.

Or you can as you suggest commit fraud(s). Now, if you get caught you'd fall into a scenario that would totally break you. PLEEEEASSSEEEEE

Am typing this rather extensive response as it may well allow other to also consider alternatives.

[CorrieK]

Thank you for your response. Have I missed some? I had a surgeon here offer me a discount, but even with the hospital fees it still came to $13,000. I was doing okay up until last week. I figured prices in Thailand could not have gone up that much, but when I look at Chettawut the prices are still over $10,000 converted to USD. I would assume Sapporn is even more.As it was I had confidence I would have $7500 saved in cash and roughly $2,000 in credit to go have it done there by the end of next year. That does not seem to be enough now. A friend went there in just a few years ago and she only paid $7200. Did not expect it to go up to $3000 in that short of time.

I don't know what else I can do. I work my 40 hours a week. I don't have a car. I have enough to pay bills. I do some internet stuff for money, which is most of the $3000 I saved this year. I would get a second job but I have not had any luck at the places I have tried. My schedule at work is so random it makes it hard, and I have applied for several, better hours positions. I don't have many friends, no family, and live by myself. Talk to people at work about room mating but that never seems to work out.

[Frances]

I truly believe that the inclusion in the DSM as a "mental disorder" has a lot to do with it. For many in the psychiatric establishment, trans people have and incurable mental illness, which can only be diminished with transition and SRS, but they are still "crazy" anyway. This thinking trickles down to governments and insurance companies who write policies. It is deemed necessary, essential and non cosmetic where I live however.

[CorrieK]

Yeah. Just looking through forums, there seems to be an explosion all around, and so many are starting at younger ages.

[ReneeT]

Corrie,

Have you been under the care of a mental health professional? Are you living your one year RLE? Have you completed facial hair removal? You are new here and I dont know much about you. You seem young - 28 or 29? It sounds like you are working retail. Is that your long-term career plan? While you can call me names and tell me I don't understand (i don't - i am almost 50), maybe your financial resources might be better directed towards career development. Yes this would delay transition, but being post op with no career, at 29, doesn't sound like a good place to be. While this may sound harsh, i think it's just reality. Being transgender is really hard under the best of circumstances. Do whatever you can to stack the deck in your favor

[CorrieK]

Well in my case I think it would help to know my background, the last ten years have been a nightmare for me, and not just transition related. Would explain alot. I had an introduction thread here, but it basically comprised of this that I have on my blog. I linked directly to the specific one. Explains therapy too. I have been out at work. I did apply for Jim Collins this year.http://helpcompletecorrie.blogspot.com/2012/06/cry-for-help.html

I have been living several years rle, in some ways my whole life. Just a lot of unusual stuff happened in a short time that wrecked me. Hair removal has been done since 2009. Started hormones in 2006, though I had dabbled in 2003. I am making $13.86 an hour, which is above most entry level positions in this area. I live by myself and I do try to roomate but it never works out. (~$1600 take home monthly, rent $665, food $200, electric $80, student loan $110, credit cards $120, hormones + cholesterol pill $60, ~$1200 a month). I do MTURK which sometimes nets me up to $500 extra a month, but life expenses have taken some of that. I should point out that I had over $30,000 of unused credit and was in school back 2007. Everything was working out.

My dad is my only family left after my mom and great grandmother died. My uncle does not care for me. I talk to people all the time about room mating but that never seems to work out. I have applied for other jobs, which have better schedules so I could work two jobs. I am trying I really am. I would never call you names or anything, you are doing your best to help with the knowledge you have and I appreciate that.

[ReneeT]

Corrie, thanks for the background - it helps to know you a bit better. Did you finish college? What was your field of study? From a career perspective, where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10 years? What steps do you need to take to reach those goals? You are young - do what it takes now to establish yourself. Transition will wait for you. It waited 47 years for me. Its not easy - i know that - but neither is being poor

[CorrieK]

No I did not finish. I have 63 hours, about halfway there. I was originally doing computer science but when things were falling apart I decided to just focus on Business. I hadn't narrowed down yet. The original plan was to finish school by 24, have surgery by 25, and move on. Unfortunately the events of 2004-2007 did there damage and I fell apart. Five years from now I hope to see myself finishing school after a hard two years of saving and having my surgery done. My student loan comes out of default in November. I would be happy just doing something on the computer or receptionist type work. Unless I could get into genetics, that would be cool.

To make these goals I need to stop binge eating and doing things because of stress. It is incredibly stupid for me to eat out in the morning and again the evening because I am stressing out and a cheeseburger will make me feel better. I had days last month where I spent $15 plus on food, when I could have just eaten stuff from home for $3 or so. I need to focus on my internet work and not become distracted with Facebook or games. For example this morning I played Sims Social, during a posting of the good internet work. Where I could have earned $10-$15, I made $8. It adds up quick. I've had three $600 plus months on the internet alone this year, but I have also had three less than $100 dollar months. Life has stabilized to where I can save finally. $2500 I have saved since Feb, and I have been a given up hope wreckless mess most the time.

[Sophora]

What I about to say is going to controversial. However I hope people think about it before replying. The main reason that it is considered "elective, cosmetic, and non-essential" is because of the designations we give ourselves(pre-op and non-op). It has to become a life or death scenario for every transsexual person but we know that isn't going to happen.

[AudreyTN]

Corrie,

Have you been under the care of a mental health professional? Are you living your one year RLE? Have you completed facial hair removal? You are new here and I dont know much about you. You seem young - 28 or 29? It sounds like you are working retail. Is that your long-term career plan? While you can call me names and tell me I don't understand (i don't - i am almost 50), maybe your financial resources might be better directed towards career development. Yes this would delay transition, but being post op with no career, at 29, doesn't sound like a good place to be. While this may sound harsh, i think it's just reality. Being transgender is really hard under the best of circumstances. Do whatever you can to stack the deck in your favor

Corrie,

Listen to Renee's advice, she knows quite a bit and she always gives good advice with the best of intentions. She won't lead you wrong. :) good luck!

[ReneeT]

Disclaimer: Audrey is a paid spokeswoman :-)

[Serana]

I certainly must admit Corrie, that it sounds like you're maybe lacking a few friends who you can sit and vent out to in the real world? I've been in the same boat, with ambitions last year to save my student money, and to try my best to save for getting my surgery. And I fell short of goals and it does lay a lot of heavy depression.

However, I do congratulate you on working as hard as you can for things. One thing I did notice was you were saying you do internet work, sometimes high money, sometimes low. I would say to maybe try and balance them some more to help get more a grip on your time, and to maybe ease your schedule some. However internet work is generally a "as and when basis" so in some ways I can imagine you're trying hard there.

I would say your eating habits are perhaps failing you a bit. It's hard to say no to food, especially to help binge and make you feel better, but something I found that helps in that respect was making a full budget plan working on overstating things like bills, and that way you'll feel you can spend less on food, and will have a little bit more money left over each month. Even an extra 100 or 200 $ would help, I'm sure. In some ways I can't show a complete understanding of the situation as I'm from the UK, and things are different here, but I do feel a lot for trans people in America because it certainly is a tougher experience from what I've learned over the last couple years.

There are certainly lots of ways to cutting costs, and over time you will wok them out more and more. But putting down a plan together to look at money in the next year and what will be disposable income, and trying to put a little more into the savings. Maybe the extra 50~100$, it's small but adds up, that's what I realized. I certainly don't want to seem like I'm coming across wrongly, and I hope maybe there is a way you can find some help, because it seems you've certainly earned that.

Check out your credit rating, see if you're eligible for a bank loan? I don't really know how easy or difficult those are to get in the US though.
As to surgery, I certainly agree you should look elsewhere, because there are better, and cheaper surgeons outside of the US, and it would be much better for you to get the surgery sooner rather than later it sounds.

Also, pretty cool, I'm studying Computer Science~.

If you do feel you need someone to talk to, then you can send me a PM at any time you'd like, you've certainly made a friend from me, because it sounds you're working very hard, and struggling in a way that nobody deserves to have to struggle.
For now, maybe all I can say is to wish you the best, but I really hope that money can get easier to come by, and saving becomes an easier task.
You have all my well wishes for your situation, and hopes for it to improve.

[Inna]

However SRS still carries the COSMETIC surgery stigma in some instances, companies such as plenty of fortune 500 do have transition plans in their companies policy and so their insurance covers such intervention understanding that it isn't elective but necessary corrective intervention.
It will take few more years but this I feel will become main stream and hopefully FFS or basic FFS will also become a corrective surgery (which it is!) in the eyes of the health industry.
I am also sure that therapy and assessment of the transsexuality will become rather more stringent in effect, trying to determine real from not, which then can become another can of worms all together.
I am betting on our societies progressive nature, somewhat slow until this point, but still, going slowly forward.

All that I have said here Corrie, doesn't make it any easier on you, I know, but I believe in rather different set of rules, that of Karma and the path which however tough and seemingly disastrous is true and the only one.
I also know, based only on my own life, that if you want anything more then life it self, you shall be granted your wish, don't give up and believe in the inevitable and disregard your minds relentless jargon.

All my love hon, this is just a game so real that we get lost within its massive spell, but shall awake soon released from the bonds of reality, then to realize that this game wasn't so bad after all, that it was rather wonderful and immensely captivating. What is only more precious, is to come to this realization before we depart!

[linda allen]

You really want to understand why surgery is "Elective", "Non Essential"," Cosmetic" ?

Because to most people, it is something you want, not something you need. Like a nose job or breast augmentation for women. It's not something that you need or you will die (like a heart bypass or a kidney transplant).

I understand that you believe you need this or you will die, but that's a mental issue, not a physical one. By asking the insurance company to pay for your sex change surgery, you are asking all the policy holders to chip in and pay (because rates are based on payouts).

I'm sure you don't agree and really feel that you need this surgery, I'm just trying to help you understand why. That's the question you posted, right?

I hope you can find peace with yourself and work things out somehow. :hugs:

[danielleb]

Transition will wait for you. It waited 47 years for me. Its not easy - i know that - but neither is being poor

I don't want to open up the debate, and it's great that your comments are aiding the OP'er, but please don't make these kinds of satements! This is part of why TS's have such a difficult time with the broader society. "If she did it then why can't you?" And to suggest that because you lived to 47 someone won't commit suicide at any earlier age is just dangerous! If you had a child the was 8 and trans, I can't imagine that you would suggest that they wait unitl they're 47 or even established to do anything about it? So please don't suggest that to someone else's child.

[Frances]

You really want to understand why surgery is "Elective", "Non Essential"," Cosmetic" ?

Because to most people, it is something you want, not something you need. Like a nose job or breast augmentation for women. It's not something that you need or you will die (like a heart bypass or a kidney transplant).

I understand that you believe you need this or you will die, but that's a mental issue, not a physical one. By asking the insurance company to pay for your sex change surgery, you are asking all the policy holders to chip in and pay (because rates are based on payouts).

I'm sure you don't agree and really feel that you need this surgery, I'm just trying to help you understand why. That's the question you posted, right?

In country with universal health care, which is just about every country but the U.S., everyone chips in for everyone's medical needs. In the case of my province, doctors have decided that it was necessary and recommended its inclusion on the list of treatments paid by the RAMQ (the government medical insurance system).

Asking a private insurance to company to include something in the U.S. is unlikely to happen, unless there is a clear statement about the need for it from the APA and AMA. Since, there is a lot of open anti-trans sentiment in some States (like Michigan, Texas and Tennessee), you can't count on the governments or insurance companies. The change has to come from the caregivers first.

Your view, Linda, seems to be the popular one, but it does not mean that it's right. If this is the only treatment that will cure suffering (be it mental or otherwise), how is it not essential?

[Kathryn Martin]

Dear Corrie:

There are two reasons why surgery for transsexual persons is not covered. Firstly, up until recently the DSM 4 considered transvestism and transsexuality as expressions of the same mental illness, that is gender identity disorder. Once diagnosed, whether as a transvestite or as a transsexual you were considered mentally ill (that is obsessed with the thought to varying degrees that you need to express yourself in the opposite "gender" to your birth gender. What was overlooked in fact was that by conflating sex and gender transsexuals were classified as "gender" disordered when in reality they were "sex" disabled.

Second, the direct result was that surgery has been and still is viewed as an extreme form of expressing a gender choice, that is a gender opposite to the one you were born with. For this reason SRS has been and still is considered a "life style" choice.

The expression Life Style has become in many ways a concept by which we in the Transgendered and Transsexual community have devalued each others lives. The strange thing is that we appear to be united on how it is used. TS people call TG people's condition "just a lifestyle". Likewise, TG people say to TS people that their condition is life style issue and to get off the high horse.

When you look up the definition of life style, you find this:

a. the way a person lives.

b. a style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group.

The way transsexuals have lived is as an immutable gender from birth forward, yet for many the lie that their body told them and the world had to be overcome and a do or die point had to be reached to enable the correction necessary to overcome the physical disability that their body represents. If medical professionals and and medical providers recognized that in transsexuals what they are dealing with is a physical disability and deformity akin to other congenital birth defects and that these conditions in the grand scheme of things are exceptionally rare then coverage would be available.

What has stood in the way is a strong movement by gender variant persons to include and claim that transsexuals are suffering from the same condition as transgender persons. As a result the need to heal a disabled and deformed body is the same as the desire to be accepted in their personal expression in the gender that is opposite to their own. This is of course a fallacy and has stood in the way of the health care necessities of both groups which are very different.

Comments such as linda allens post are not helpful in this discussion. She simply perpetuates the deliberate lie that no matter what your experience is, SRS is not a live or die necessity. Consistent real evidence of transsexuals and their suicide statistics say otherwise. Although in her case I believe she really does not understand the issues facing both transsexuals and transgender persons in regards to their very different health care needs, some out there seek to maintain the sameness of the two conditions because it provides justification for the legal and social acceptance needs of transgender persons, which otherwise are of little concern to transsexuals.

I would follow Renee's advice. She and many others have gone though and survived what you are experiencing. You also need to know that this a public part of the forum. What you write about becomes a matter of public internet record, there are other forums here, like the private Issues and Concerns forum where this can be discussed out of the public eye.

There are also several post ops around that you could contact and talk to about what lies ahead.

I wish you luck

Kathryn



Or Life & Death for that matter. Here I am ready to mutilate myself or worse because of lack of funds. My quality of life is terrible. I gorge on food because I am stressed, that certainly could lead to a premature death. All because in many ways I feel the perception is "Oh this is just something you want, not need" Given the choice I would rather be fighting cancer or something else than this..

[AudreyTN]

hey Corrie,

you can always commit a crime and go to prison, and get your sex change paid for by the State now. lol.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?180382-US-prison-ordered-to-provide-SRS-to-inmate

[ReneeT]

I don't want to open up the debate, and it's great that your comments are aiding the OP'er, but please don't make these kinds of satements! This is part of why TS's have such a difficult time with the broader society. "If she did it then why can't you?" And to suggest that because you lived to 47 someone won't commit suicide at any earlier age is just dangerous! If you had a child the was 8 and trans, I can't imagine that you would suggest that they wait unitl they're 47 or even established to do anything about it? So please don't suggest that to someone else's child.



Danielle, please reread my post. *I was not advising the OP to wait until she is 47 to transition. *I was, and am, advising her to hold off a bit until she gets her life more in order. *Transexual people have a 4-fold higher rate of homelessness, a 4-fold higher rate of being withouthealth insurance, and a 20-fold higher rate of suicide. *While the causes of this are multifactorial, embarking on the difficult path of gender transition with few resources, limited social support, and no clear path to future financial security is a recipe leading to these things and not a recipe for for a succesful transition.

I welcome your opinion, but i do not welcome you telling me what not to say. *This may surprise you, but i have a clue or two about which * I speak. *I also do not welcome yourstereotype comments about transexual people. *I amsure you can comeup with more constructive ways to express yourself. *Give it a try, maybe.

[kellycan27]

Corrie,

Have you been under the care of a mental health professional? Are you living your one year RLE? Have you completed facial hair removal? You are new here and I dont know much about you. You seem young - 28 or 29? It sounds like you are working retail. Is that your long-term career plan? While you can call me names and tell me I don't understand (i don't - i am almost 50), maybe your financial resources might be better directed towards career development. Yes this would delay transition, but being post op with no career, at 29, doesn't sound like a good place to be. While this may sound harsh, i think it's just reality. Being transgender is really hard under the best of circumstances. Do whatever you can to stack the deck in your favor

This is very sound thinking. I have personally seen ( and commented a few times ) a number of TS girls who run head long towards transition and are so consumed with same that it renders them impotent in other areas that would actually make transition go somewhat smoother... Getting an education, a job, finding and affording housing etc. I agree that setting transition on the back burner while one gets their ducks in a row will offer a better chance of success in the long run.

Kel

[kellycan27]

I don't want to open up the debate, and it's great that your comments are aiding the OP'er, but please don't make these kinds of satements! This is part of why TS's have such a difficult time with the broader society. "If she did it then why can't you?" And to suggest that because you lived to 47 someone won't commit suicide at any earlier age is just dangerous! If you had a child the was 8 and trans, I can't imagine that you would suggest that they wait unitl they're 47 or even established to do anything about it? So please don't suggest that to someone else's child.

Maybe you have some better advice that you may offer rather than to criticize other people's? People may in fact commit suicide at an earlier age, but the world is a hard place, and bad things happen. If one doesn't have the resources to transition.. one is not going to be able to transition. Maybe you can suggest a better way for the OP to do it? You have offered nothing as far as I can see. Renee's advice is sound whether it be for transitioning TS or any young person for that matter.

Kel

[CorrieK]

This has been a very informative thread, and I hope others will get as much out of it as I have. Will use as much as I can if I decide to try to pursue changing the coverage at work. Which come to find out the FSA is covered with a letter. Does not seem like much, but the FSA would give me $2500 in January and yeah I pay it through the year but I know I will spend at least $1000 on doctor visits, HRT, and my cholesterol pill, which if I get my act together I won't need.

Thing is I am close now, maybe closer than I think. In 2006, before I let my emotions and grief take hold, I had $30,000 in unused approved ready to go credit. I had a solid plan. Hair (see how HRT did, minoxidil, etc), Electrolysis, Surgery, Hair (restoration). That $30,000 would easily gotten my electrolysis, hairline, and srs especially at Thailands prices at the time. Unfortunately I was drinking heavily, eating out all the time, buying friendships, and losing sight of the future. I was still wrought from the damage of my mom (who was still awesome even with her schizophrenia), granny (who took care of me since I was 12), and puppy since kindergarten dying, losing a job, stopping school, and my significant other leaving me.

Everything was going just as well as what I see with everyone else in their low to mid 20s. This without the family and friends network most of them have. All was set to be done in 2009. 25. I would have lived the last three years complete, and most likely be in school full time if it was not for my mistakes. Mistakes I will have to live with into my 30s. I am proud I did not kill myself those years, and I still stayed on hormones everyday and got my electrolysis done (if one could ever really call it "done).

Unfortunately by the time I should have had surgery, I had maxed my credit cards, and even working two jobs I could not make all the payments. I ended up going through two cars at this point, and got a notice I was being sued. By the end of last year I had no choice but to file bankruptcy. Stopping now would be a non-option. Maybe if I was 18 still, I could float by another few years on just hormones, but I am mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually exhausted having been through so much and having to wait so long. It is what is. This birth defect that I can no longer stand the sight of.

Over the next two years I fully expect my situation to improve. Even though I filed bankruptcy in December 2011, I have already gotten approved for two new credit cards. I buy groceries or see a movie and pay it off in full each month. (half the bill one check, half the next). I think when my student loan comes out of default in November, it may even be better. Am I expecting $30,000 in credit again? No. I don't deserve or could afford it either.

Would $3,000 help? $5,000? Heck yeah. I have $3000 now, maybe $4,000 if I withdraw my own earnings from my work 401k (about $1,000, would leave $1200 employer match). I have about $500 in stock still. $800 in Treasury Bonds. On average I would say at least $200 a month off the internet. I could do FSA at work, get a little boost through the year, and having that taken out before hand would help me save better anyway. Straighten up my eating habits and such might even save at least $150 a paycheck (bimonthly) to get me there. There is also a friend I am confident I could borrow upwards of $2,000 from, and maybe another $1,000 from another friend if he will pull his head out of his car haha. I could probably net another $500-$1000 selling my old games I don't play and my old washer and dryer (my apartment furnishes). I have also entertained the idea of taking a class or two when my loan comes out of default, borrowing oh say a few thousand and putting that towards it as well. Would be a nice warm up for school, I think it would be silly to dive in full time at first. Might could even get a school grant.

I just have to focus and stay strong. I can do it. It won't be savings alone that does it, it will be the cumulative effort from several sources. Sorta like how it was not one thing that ended Blockbuster Video, but the combo of Redbox, Netflix, On Demand, and the Internet. I can do it. No criminal acts required :)

[giuseppina]

Corrie, the medical definition of elective surgery is that which is not an emergency. If someone has an aorta or jugular leak, or any other condition that is an immediate threat to survival requiring surgical intervention, that is considered emergency surgery. All other surgeries are classified as elective regardless of purpose.

[kellycan27]

This has been a very informative thread, and I hope others will get as much out of it as I have. Will use as much as I can if I decide to try to pursue changing the coverage at work. Which come to find out the FSA is covered with a letter. Does not seem like much, but the FSA would give me $2500 in January and yeah I pay it through the year but I know I will spend at least $1000 on doctor visits, HRT, and my cholesterol pill, which if I get my act together I won't need.

Thing is I am close now, maybe closer than I think. In 2006, before I let my emotions and grief take hold, I had $30,000 in unused approved ready to go credit. I had a solid plan. Hair (see how HRT did, minoxidil, etc), Electrolysis, Surgery, Hair (restoration). That $30,000 would easily gotten my electrolysis, hairline, and srs especially at Thailands prices at the time. Unfortunately I was drinking heavily, eating out all the time, buying friendships, and losing sight of the future. I was still wrought from the damage of my mom (who was still awesome even with her schizophrenia), granny (who took care of me since I was 12), and puppy since kindergarten dying, losing a job, stopping school, and my significant other leaving me.

Everything was going just as well as what I see with everyone else in their low to mid 20s. This without the family and friends network most of them have. All was set to be done in 2009. 25. I would have lived the last three years complete, and most likely be in school full time if it was not for my mistakes. Mistakes I will have to live with into my 30s. I am proud I did not kill myself those years, and I still stayed on hormones everyday and got my electrolysis done (if one could ever really call it "done).

Unfortunately by the time I should have had surgery, I had maxed my credit cards, and even working two jobs I could not make all the payments. I ended up going through two cars at this point, and got a notice I was being sued. By the end of last year I had no choice but to file bankruptcy. Stopping now would be a non-option. Maybe if I was 18 still, I could float by another few years on just hormones, but I am mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually exhausted having been through so much and having to wait so long. It is what is. This birth defect that I can no longer stand the sight of.

Over the next two years I fully expect my situation to improve. Even though I filed bankruptcy in December 2011, I have already gotten approved for two new credit cards. I buy groceries or see a movie and pay it off in full each month. (half the bill one check, half the next). I think when my student loan comes out of default in November, it may even be better. Am I expecting $30,000 in credit again? No. I don't deserve or could afford it either.

Would $3,000 help? $5,000? Heck yeah. I have $3000 now, maybe $4,000 if I withdraw my own earnings from my work 401k (about $1,000, would leave $1200 employer match). I have about $500 in stock still. $800 in Treasury Bonds. On average I would say at least $200 a month off the internet. I could do FSA at work, get a little boost through the year, and having that taken out before hand would help me save better anyway. Straighten up my eating habits and such might even save at least $150 a paycheck (bimonthly) to get me there. There is also a friend I am confident I could borrow upwards of $2,000 from, and maybe another $1,000 from another friend if he will pull his head out of his car haha. I could probably net another $500-$1000 selling my old games I don't play and my old washer and dryer (my apartment furnishes). I have also entertained the idea of taking a class or two when my loan comes out of default, borrowing oh say a few thousand and putting that towards it as well. Would be a nice warm up for school, I think it would be silly to dive in full time at first. Might could even get a school grant.

I just have to focus and stay strong. I can do it. It won't be savings alone that does it, it will be the cumulative effort from several sources. Sorta like how it was not one thing that ended Blockbuster Video, but the combo of Redbox, Netflix, On Demand, and the Internet. I can do it. No criminal acts required :)

You will only be adding to your post transition problems. How will you pay back this debt and still live? More loans, stripping your 401, borrowing from friends?

[ReneeT]

Unfortunately, for most, the best opportunity to secure our future is before transition, not after. At least we can have one less potential barrier to overcome in gaining employment. It irks me when people, especially those who don't share the same challenges and will never fully appreciate how difficult transition is, encourage others to leap off the cliff with little or no preparation. That is irresponsible, IMHO

[Raquel June]

Elective?

Well, I guess you could choose not to have it. You could also choose not to take anti-depressants and kill yourself. If doctors are of the opinion that it would improve your prognosis, doesn't that mean it isn't really elective? And isn't that pretty clearly established and spelled out in the SoC that the medical community seems so fond of?

I mean, I think it should be elective. It should be our choice. But if people are going to go by the SoC, it really isn't our choice, is it? It isn't elective. It's up to us to find a doctor who will tell us whether or not it's a good idea.

Non-essential?

Isn't this synonymous with elective? Again, if you're going to a shrink who's telling you you're trans and this would improve your life, doesn't that make it fairly essential?

Cosmetic?

Oh, this is the easiest one!

Is a procedure that sterilizes you cosmetic? Is anybody seriously going to even begin to argue that an orchie is for looks? Not that testicles are the least bit attractive, but honestly. We're talking about surgical castration here. That's not a cosmetic procedure.

What about GRS as a whole?

The most clear-cut evidence that these are all ridiculous things to say is the fact that in many places (I think most US states, at least), getting your driver's license gender marker changed is purely contingent on getting a doctor to sign a statement saying you've had surgery. So if it's essential to change legal documents, how is it cosmetic or non-essential?

I guess there are actually plenty surgeries that are technically elective even if they improve your quality of life. Fixing a cleft palate is elective.

[CorrieK]

Paying it back should be easy, all the money I am saving now would easily pay all that off. My one friend is on my cellphone plan so he woul just get a year free, while after surgery, I would be staying with the fried I borrowed from anyway and would work it off, do errands for them, housework and anything else they need. I can safe and responsibly handle up to $400 easily.

Could something happen? Yeah, it could happen to anyone. No matter how prepared or educated we are. We all know how the economy and crazy stories of people doing so well working at Starbucks. I was fully prepared six years ago, I had a paid for house, a decent job, good credit, all was in line. Things happen. I am amazing at office/computer type work and I do have the certifications. Two of my non retail jobs I have gotten purely based off my experience and credentials alone. The first didnt work out because I could not work and school both when my mom died. The other was after I came out there and refused to tuck in my shirt due to gender base dress codes.

While I do appreciate the concern of my post transition well being, and in most cases you are absolutely right, I would say I dont quite fit the bill. My latest raise puts me over $14, and I still have two spots I can promote up at least within the next year or so. Both positions can also bonus $1200 each quarter not $300 like now. I just cant justify taking time off work to finish school which even in a best case scenario would take two years. If i am already missing days of work due to distraughtness of surgery how am I supposed to juggle school in with that? Whats the guarantee I will be able to find a good high paying job afterwards? What if it starts out less? What about my benefits? Could I afford my health insurance which covers my hormones and doctors visits? I do not have the fallback support system. If I was younger and had mommy and daddy it would certainly be an option, but being out alone in the world makes some things unattainable.

My point is, I don't like the assumption I am working some trivial, meaningless job that does nothing for me. I have good coworkers that respect me. Yeah i would rather have an office job with awesome ac and be able to wear dresses, skirts, and heels all day (I am a girly girl)and I have applied places the last few months but it is also the first time I have looked in two years, these things can take time, even in supposedly good economic states like Oklahoma. I would much prefer my internet work over part time work anyway, i do not do well with bosses and having to watch what I say and do. I need to be stable emotionally to handle to load of either two jobs or one and school and right now I can't. I made that mistake before and I wont again. I have come to far.

[danielleb]

I just cant justify taking time off work to finish school which even in a best case scenario would take two years. If i am already missing days of work due to distraughtness of surgery how am I supposed to juggle school in with that? Whats the guarantee I will be able to find a good high paying job afterwards? What if it starts out less? What about my benefits? Could I afford my health insurance which covers my hormones and doctors visits? I do not have the fallback support system. If I was younger and had mommy and daddy it would certainly be an option, but being out alone in the world makes some things unattainable.

...I need to be stable emotionally to handle to load of either two jobs or one and school and right now I can't. I made that mistake before and I wont again. I have come to far.

This sums up my point. To offer the advice that we first attain financial stability, eductaion, and career employment shows just how out of touch a late transitioner can be with someone who is younger, and how someone who has transitioned around college can't understand the pressures of transitioning admist everyday life that are truly faced in the real world away from the microcasm of college.

I am closing my fifth year out of work with a back injury, and I have survived each year on less than $500 a year. Would it be ideal to have all of those things in place, of course, but I think that you need to recognize that this is about survival, not about a "successful transition." You are placing transition in the category as "elective," and that is wrong, and I would think that you both would understand that. It's those types of comments that people love to cast off, that carry the same connotations as Gina Rinehart's recent comments about the "jealous" poor. I'm not stating that your advice is in anyway unsound, just appealing that you try and better understand the situation. If you want to continue to make me feel inadequate for one more reason in my life, that's your choice, and I wish you would offer me legal suicide so I can get this over with. But I hope you can understand that while your plan may be suitable for a TG person, this is not a put it on hold scenario for the majority of TS women.

[kellycan27]

This sums up my point. To offer the advice that we first attain financial stability, eductaion, and career employment shows just how out of touch a late transitioner can be with someone who is younger, and how someone who has transitioned around college can't understand the pressures of transitioning admist everyday life that are truly faced in the real world away from the microcasm of college.

I am closing my fifth year out of work with a back injury, and I have survived each year on less than $500 a year. Would it be ideal to have all of those things in place, of course, but I think that you need to recognize that this is about survival, not about a "successful transition." You are placing transition in the category as "elective," and that is wrong, and I would think that you both would understand that. It's those types of comments that people love to cast off, that carry the same connotations as Gina Rinehart's recent comments about the "jealous" poor. I'm not stating that your advice is in anyway unsound, just appealing that you try and better understand the situation better. If you want to continue to make me feel inadequate for one more reason in my life, that's your choice, and I wish you would offer me legal suicide so I can get this over with. But I hope you can understand that while your plan may be suitable for a TG person, this is not a put it on hold scenario for the majority of TS women.

I am a transsexual, and I do know the rigors of transition from my own personal experience and through the experience of other transsexuals that I have interacted with. When you speak of transsexual suicide you didn't take into account that besides committing suicide because one cannot move forward there are those who do it because they can't cope with life "post" transition.. education, finding a job, housing, relationships etc. Physical transition is certainly important, but so is being able to function in the world post transition. I began my transition at 20 years old so you can hardly call me a "late transition-er" nor can you say that I am "out of touch" with someone who is young. I think that some people still think that having breasts and a vagina are going suddenly make things right with the world, and I am here to tell you that that is not the case. And i can honestly say that for MANY young people IT IS a "put on hold" scenario simply for the fact that a young person ( without the advantage of a good education and a good job) does not have the financial resources to NOT put physical transition on hold. To advise someone to proceed where they clearly can't is to offer them nothing in reality. Nobody is saying that it is impossible, but a couple of us are offering sound advice here rather than patting someone on the head and saying... go for it.. you can do it.

[Raquel June]

This sums up my point. To offer the advice that we first attain financial stability, eductaion, and career employment shows just how out of touch a late transitioner can be with someone who is younger, and how someone who has transitioned around college can't understand the pressures of transitioning admist everyday life that are truly faced in the real world away from the microcasm of college.

I am closing my fifth year out of work with a back injury, and I have survived each year on less than $500 a year. Would it be ideal to have all of those things in place, of course, but I think that you need to recognize that this is about survival, not about a "successful transition." You are placing transition in the category as "elective," and that is wrong, and I would think that you both would understand that. It's those types of comments that people love to cast off, that carry the same connotations as Gina Rinehart's recent comments about the "jealous" poor. I'm not stating that your advice is in anyway unsound, just appealing that you try and better understand the situation. If you want to continue to make me feel inadequate for one more reason in my life, that's your choice, and I wish you would offer me legal suicide so I can get this over with. But I hope you can understand that while your plan may be suitable for a TG person, this is not a put it on hold scenario for the majority of TS women.

I thought you didn't want to open up the debate?

First off, you can't live on $500/year in the US. That's $40/mo. And you said "less than $500." If you're telling the truth, someone else is obviously supporting you, so how much you make is fairly irrelevant since you're living on their money, not living on $500/year.

And if you're actually only making $500/year, why? Too proud to work a $9/hr job?

I've been there. I've been there earlier this year. TS people have it pretty rough sometimes. But for five years? I sat around and got high for a month, but then I really had to stop that and start applying for jobs delivering pizza since killing myself seemed a little too much like giving up. I was making about $30 a pop donating plasma twice a week while I was sleeping on my friend's couch.

It sucks being too depressed to do anything. Contact county mental health. I know we don't all live in the magical utopia that Frances does, but there are still some options. Running and taking long walks kinda cleared my mind and was the only thing that kept me from drinking myself to death when I was getting money from plasma.

But don't pretend transition will make your life easier. It won't. Don't build it up to be something it's not.

I know several women who have been through hell and are single parents. Women are pretty good about doing what they have to do to support themselves and their family. And if they had to dress as a guy for some strange reason most women wouldn't fall apart and kill themselves over not getting to wear what they wanted. Sitting around complaining that you can't function in life because you can't live as a woman is not a very womanly mindset.

One thing that helped me get my sh*t together was having a woman who had been through real problems tell me how much I was feeling sorry for myself. Woman up.

I got out of an abusive relationship and the only place I could go was back to the midwest. I cut my hair and borrowed some clothes and applied everywhere and went to interviews as a guy and got lucky and got a decent job. It's what I had to do. And don't you dare say doing what I had to do to survive makes me less TS. It makes me less pathetic. And I haven't cut my hair in 6 months, and I've got an appointment to get it colored next week. But for now that's about the best I can do.

Maybe being dependent doesn't eat at your self-esteem like it did mine. But being depressed is something you can and should deal with before you transition. You need to get to a place where you have hope in the future and know you're strong enough to transition, but do the best thing for yourself now, not pretend a vagina will magically make everything fall into place.

I'm not the most financially stable person, and it is more important to me to transition than to be 100% stable. And in that sense, I'm kinda in the same boat with the OP. I'll probably save about $5,000, apply for financial aid for school, and then transition on the job, in which case there's a 99% chance they'll fire me, and I'll get on unemployment and go back to school. So I'm not against taking risks to be happy.

I got laid off in 2008 and actually spent a good chunk of my unemployment getting laser. It was something that seriously kept me from being suicidal just knowing that I was going in the right direction. But putting all your eggs in that basket and not doing anything to actually improve your position in life is going to backfire and make you more depressed.

You need a plan, and it should really be a plan that involves getting mental help and getting a job and taking what steps you can to transition that fit into the rest of the plan.

[Kathryn Martin]

This sums up my point. To offer the advice that we first attain financial stability, eductaion, and career employment shows just how out of touch a late transitioner can be with someone who is younger, and how someone who has transitioned around college can't understand the pressures of transitioning admist everyday life that are truly faced in the real world away from the microcasm of college.

I am a late transitioner. I live a real life every day, not in a microcosm of anything. I fully understand the pressures faced by younger transitioners that neither have the resources nor the experience to go about the enterprise in a way that does not destroy their life or their world. Transition for a transsexual is never elective, but let's face it, it is sound advice to create some life for yourself which can support a transition. It does not take a long time, but requires iron discipline. While we all should be having assistance in transitioning financial and otherwise, the reality is that you have yourself to rely on and often moping about your lot in life (and I fully understand the drama years in your twenties) will not allow you to successfully transition. This may sound harsh, but believe me we, all transsexuals have been there.

No one is adding a pressure for you, it's your life. Maybe less excusing and more planning and execution would help.

And Corrie, set a goal by when you will have saved up the money for surgery. If it is 3 years or 5 years or 7, know when you will reach the point. If the average cost is $15,000.00 including travel (and I understand that this is attainable) you have to save $400.00 a months to get there in three years and one month, $250 per months for five years and $178 for seven years. If you do that others might be willing to help by giving you money as a gift towards it. There are also foundations that will financially support SRS for transitioners. If you think about it for three years you have to save $13.50 a day, for five years $8.05 a day and for seven years $5.70.

[Frances]

I know we don't all live in the magical utopia that Frances does, but there are still some options.

Once again, I would to remind everyone on this forum (especially Americans) that I had to pay $15,000 in mandatory therapy to get my "free" surgery. There is no magic involved, and my province is far from a utopia, but doctors and gorvernment officials have decided that SRS was essential. Like I said, it has to come from the top. There seems to be two threads running at once. I was not commenting on the feasibility of getting the money for surgery.

[Sophora]

I am a transsexual, and I do know the rigors of transition from my own personal experience and through the experience of other transsexuals that I have interacted with. When you speak of transsexual suicide you didn't take into account that besides committing suicide because one cannot move forward there are those who do it because they can't cope with life "post" transition.. education, finding a job, housing, relationships etc. Physical transition is certainly important, but so is being able to function in the world post transition. I began my transition at 20 years old so you can hardly call me a "late transition-er" nor can you say that I am "out of touch" with someone who is young. I think that some people still think that having breasts and a vagina are going suddenly make things right with the world, and I am here to tell you that that is not the case. And i can honestly say that for MANY young people IT IS a "put on hold" scenario simply for the fact that a young person ( without the advantage of a good education and a good job) does not have the financial resources to NOT put physical transition on hold. To advise someone to proceed where they clearly can't is to offer them nothing in reality. Nobody is saying that it is impossible, but a couple of us are offering sound advice here rather than patting someone on the head and saying... go for it.. you can do it.

However why would offer such advise when it wasn't asked for? The question was Why is srs elective, non-essential? The question is answered in your post. It is not considered a priority because of advise like this.

Also, have you considered that even if sets themselves up with a good education that it isn't guaranteed they get a job in that field? or When they finally start transitioning they lose that job? or they could kill themselves in that timeframe? There are many variables there.

Personally if someone knows they were meant to be the opposite sex(and I mean with no doubt whatsoever) they should act on it. However everyone is different.

I personally envy anyone that can continue to play their birth gender even when it conflicts with who they are. For me and others, I just can't do it anymore. I would rather be treated miserably and be happy then trying to continue to play to being genders we aren't.

[ReneeT]

Anything that i would add to what Kelly, Kathryn, and Raquel have said would just be an echo. Corrie, you are an adult. As such, you will be faced with many hard decisions, more so as a transexual. You can either make rational decisions that will set you up for success in all aspects of your life, or not. Take everything here in the context of your life, and remember how much you paid for the advice. Most people here, even with differing opinions, are genuinely interested in your success. But you need to be in control of your own life

[kellycan27]

However why would offer such advise when it wasn't asked for? The question was Why is srs elective, non-essential? The question is answered in your post. It is not considered a priority because of advise like this.

Also, have you considered that even if sets themselves up with a good education that it isn't guaranteed they get a job in that field? or When they finally start transitioning they lose that job? or they could kill themselves in that timeframe? There are many variables there.

Personally if someone knows they were meant to be the opposite sex(and I mean with no doubt whatsoever) they should act on it. However everyone is different.

I personally envy anyone that can continue to play their birth gender even when it conflicts with who they are. For me and others, I just can't do it anymore. I would rather be treated miserably and be happy then trying to continue to play to being genders we aren't.

The OP did did state her financial status and how she figured to get around it.. basically by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Maybe you can answer this for me.. After getting that education and better job are her chances better or worse than that of just winging it? We cannot plan for all the things that "might" go wrong, but we can try and better prepare. If you can't "do it anymore" then how can you be happy about something that makes you unhappy to begin with. "Can't do it anymore" implies that that you are going to do something about it, but how can you do something about it ( SRS in the case of the OP) if you don't have the resources to do it now?

[Sophora]

The OP did did state her financial status and how she figured to get around it.. basically by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Maybe you can answer this for me.. After getting that education and better job are her chances better or worse than that of just winging it? We cannot plan for all the things that "might" go wrong, but we can try and better prepare. If you can't "do it anymore" then how can you be happy about something that makes you unhappy to begin with. "Can't do it anymore" implies that that you are going to do something about it, but how can you do something about it ( SRS in the case of the OP) if you don't have the resources to do it now?

I would say her chances are worse if she did it your way. She is make 13.86 an hour. That is almost as much as my mom was making after 13 years and before she was fired. It is a whole dollar more that my mom is making now. It is definately better than most entry level positions pay. and if you need more convincing that what you are saying is not really relevant here is the OP's own words:


<snip>

While I do appreciate the concern of my post transition well being, and in most cases you are absolutely right, I would say I dont quite fit the bill. My latest raise puts me over $14, and I still have two spots I can promote up at least within the next year or so. Both positions can also bonus $1200 each quarter not $300 like now. I just cant justify taking time off work to finish school which even in a best case scenario would take two years. If i am already missing days of work due to distraughtness of surgery how am I supposed to juggle school in with that? Whats the guarantee I will be able to find a good high paying job afterwards? What if it starts out less? What about my benefits? Could I afford my health insurance which covers my hormones and doctors visits? I do not have the fallback support system. If I was younger and had mommy and daddy it would certainly be an option, but being out alone in the world makes some things unattainable.

My point is, I don't like the assumption I am working some trivial, meaningless job that does nothing for me. I have good coworkers that respect me. Yeah i would rather have an office job with awesome ac and be able to wear dresses, skirts, and heels all day (I am a girly girl)and I have applied places the last few months but it is also the first time I have looked in two years, these things can take time, even in supposedly good economic states like Oklahoma. I would much prefer my internet work over part time work anyway, i do not do well with bosses and having to watch what I say and do. I need to be stable emotionally to handle to load of either two jobs or one and school and right now I can't. I made that mistake before and I wont again. I have come to far.

She didn't need/want the advice being offered. She was wondering why the american insurance system considers SRS non-essential. Something that I would have liked to discuss in the thread than the advice being given out of hand.

Maybe I am different but I would rather have my SRS and then worry about everything else. I am in my early 30s and I am not getting younger. and not only that, I can't force myself into that gender role anymore(and from what I gathered neither can the OP). I can't force myself to be male anymore and it causes me great anxiety and depression to be cast into that role again.

For some girls, it is the same. We can't live in that role and it causes great displeasure to be issued into that role. If you can live in both worlds, awesome. I am very glad. But for me(and hopefully the OP) we can't anymore.

Edit:
I am done with thread. If you want to continue this conversation, pm me.

[ReneeT]

Let us know how things work out, Corrie. I wish you the best.

[Kate T]

Or Life & Death for that matter. Here I am ready to mutilate myself or worse because of lack of funds. My quality of life is terrible. I gorge on food because I am stressed, that certainly could lead to a premature death. All because in many ways I feel the perception is "Oh this is just something you want, not need" Given the choice I would rather be fighting cancer or something else than this..


I agree that SRS, for those who are TS, is not "elective" and should be available and indeed affordable.

But to answer your question "help me understand why...." I offer up an alternative perspective. You state above that given the choice you would rather be fighting cancer. A throwaway line maybe. But it gives a chance to look at a different perspective. You have seen or read I am sure of other peoples problems. Children who cannot leave hospitals because they need daily dialysis. A young man or woman, blind from birth who will never see their baby smile for the first time. Someone who is fed by an intravenous tube because they no longer have enough intestine to absorb food to keep themselves alive.

Self pity is not good for any of us. The system is wrong, I agree, but you must work with what you have got. Make your plans, save your money, look for alternatives. You worry about something "slipping out" while swimming? Try a full skirted one piece swim suit. Or maybe a modesty swim suit like some muslim women wear. You worry about getting mugged. Fair enough. Take steps to minimise the risk. Women have this risk ALL THE TIME.

Like I said, I think the system is wrong. I wish you luck and I hope for your sake that you can find a way to live happily.

[CorrieK]

There was a thread posted in the main ts forum about grs being an elective surgery. I am posting this because I do not know what else I can change in my situation, as I have already tried, or am trying everything I know. I have been so depressed from all the setbacks financially in life. While on bad days I do have the thoughts of mutilation and/or suicide again, I still feel immensely better now living not only expressing as me most the time, but living as me all the time. Up until HRT I was a mess. It brought a calm and peace to me I had not known.

At this point I was supposed to have been post op for three years now (good credit and funds, then a lot of life happened), and here I am 28 and just now getting a handle on life to be able to save again. I don't have the family and friends network a lot of people do, so stay with my parents or cutting my income is near impossible as I live by myself.

In that thread it seems like most overlooked the fact I do have a stable, supportive job, from my store HR, down to just about every employee.

At my job they either love me or ignore me. In the thread there was almost mention of me beginning transition. I am not sure I understand this starting transition, because I already began transition six years ago when I was 22. All that is left is surgery. Electrolysis/Facial Hair removal has been done since 2009. Name change is done. I have my letters.

Is that how we are defining transition by surgery? There is no going back. Other than my hair/weight, most the rest of me is awesome. I was blessed with small hands, a small adams apple, and my breasts are decent C's. Been living fulltime since 2009. My name change is complete. Yeah it is not the most feminine name but there are female Corrie’s and I wanted to honor my parents best I could since I don’t know what my mom what have named me and my Dad says they never talked about it.

My employer does cover most the cost of hormones (I pay $20 for 90 day supply). My lab and doctors visits are generally covered with the copay. I am making $14 an hour now, in one of the lowest cost of living states. I am happy with what I do. A lot of other jobs would not fit my social anxiety issues. I have two weeks sick time saved. So work provides me a stable support system with good benefits. Great if they would cover surgery.

Not to mention on an average day I probably walk ten miles. I would rather not, but it forces me to stay in shape. I budget and supervise my bank account nearly everyday. The only problem is that when it comes to me either being depressed for the day or getting a cheeseburger and taking a long nap, I almost always choose the cheeseburger and long nap.

Yes there's some dress hiccups now and then but it does not stop me, just frustrates. I have very bad social anxiety as it is, like walking out of crowded theaters bad or not entering crowded restaurants. My anxiety does not help transition, but it is not caused by it. The same thing that stops me from entering a crowded theater in jeans and a shirt is the same thing that prevents me in a top and skirt. It is actually better now than it has been, and my friends will attest to that.

On the side I have been studying several courses, economics, marketing, anything business I can find for free on the internet, plus when I get the chance to go to the library. I am confident I can test out of at least 20 more credit hours, putting me upwards of 80 in total. So why not finish school?

Because for me to able to focus and actually learn what I am reading, I have to have a good internet work day to boost my mood enough to focus. It does help when you are making progress. The bigger thing is to learn how to deal when your not. If I take a course, I am suddenly on a schedule. Really hard with my erratic schedule at work. Unfortunately that is how it is. I appreciate all the advice. Just wanted everyone to know I am not as helpless and unstable as it seems, and I do have a post transition plan, and in many ways I am living it now, yet in many ways I would argue I never needed to transition, I always live as me, just a girl trying to make it in the world. It was only as I got older that I learned how to correct, adapt, and change the things about me to match who I have been all along. When I get more stable I will see about taking a course or two, but now it would be a wreckless expenditure of money.

I relentlessly try everything I can to find other jobs, sidework, roommates, anything that will help. Some success, some not. I would sell myself into indentured servitude if I could. I applied for Jim Collins. If it had not been for having to file bankruptcy, move by my work, and had my wisdom teeth out, I would have have surgery scheduled for this time next year if this stuff had not happened. It is these setbacks that are devastating me.

Assuming I had surgery in 2009 on the original plan before the setbacks happened, it would not have been a big deal, just another life happening. Without surgery I will not be able to find closure to transition because it is all that is left at this point. Any life happening only takes away, but life happenings after will not. Say I want a house. Okay no big deal, I have a roof over my head anyway. Say I need a new tooth, no big deal it is on my insurance now, say I need a car, okay I am only a mile away I need the exercise.

The things about the post transition plan is there is none (really think what I am trying to say please), because yeah surgery won’t change anything in that relation. All I can do is as much extra curricular education as I can so I can get that stupid piece of paper that says I know stuff that I have known for years. Then just referring to the budget below.

By 2015, my credit should be good for a mortgage and I can get a small house, and have a puppy again. Hopefully find someone that is open to adoption and take care of someone in need, much like myself growing up. If I find someone that accepts me for who I am preop, then all the merrier because it will be more real. Try to get a set schedule at work, so I can get another part time job, or if that fails, find another fulltime job (maybe one that covers srs), and go part time there. My student loan comes out of default in November. I fully intend to take a course to see if I am ready.

The budget is simple. Maximize earnings while saving as much as possible. The time frame is asap. Starting with keeping my bills on time. Keep the credit card balance under $50 (just to maintain credit). Question every expenditure. Do I really need to see that movie? Do I really need that cheeseburger? Do I really need Netflix this month? Do I really need the A/C on 65 tonight? How many minutes is this going to make my surgery wait take longer? Can I wait another 2 days over a cheeseburger? It is little things but it adds up.

Have to stay focused on my internet work best I can, not get distracted when the good paying stuff is up, and make sure I use my 1.5% cashback card for everything I can (it is a debit, not a credit, that comes right out of my checking...PayPal debit card), that I have to spend it on, and try to buy online cheaper where I can get more cashback through sites such as upromise, or treasure trooper or whatever offers the most that day.

Save the change I find. Let the guys at work buy my lunch. Eat my Chicken Noodle O’s and sandwich and drink my water from my cup, not order China King and get a soda to make the $10 minimum. Do my app on my phone that I can do $1 a day sometimes while I am walking to work or in the breakroom. Keep looking for a roomate and cheaper housing (when my lease is up in Febuary, I will move down the street, it is $20 less a month, and a quarter mile closer to work).

Stop these herbal hormones that are probably nothing more than a placebo mixed with a five hour energy. I have good script hormones, why do I waste it on this crap? That is $500 right there a year, since 06...$3,000. Stop with the $25 dht shampoos, it has been six years. You can’t have that much dht anymore. $25x8=$200 or $1200 over six years.

The budget failing is on me. Not because I have a bad plan, but because I try to cheer myself up with trivial things that won’t be there the next day. Say a cheeseburger for example. That is my cigarette, beer, marijuana, whatever vice people tend to have. Mine is food, I know that, and when I can control that I can do anything. These threads have helped me realize that, and I am learning. My skin and hair are doing much better this week just from eating small snack size dinners, not drinking soda, and not using the vending machine. Woot! Saved $8 and 3000+ calories.

As for therapy, the state would be useless. I learned that when I was trying to get help with my mother. If they had done their job, my mom just might be alive and stable. They will just put me on some pill for a few days and then it will run out and it will be oh find a therapist. I have a therapist. A good one. I just leave her office feeling worse because I know I just took $50 out of my surgery money to see her. We have five free behavorial visits from my job, but none of them seem to specialize in ts care. Not to mention I was on Prozac in 2008, which had disastrous results. Oh well. Just another day of life. Tomorrow will be fun and I get to see my dad! Yay! Vacation in two weeks too, should be a big boost to my diet and lowering stress levels.

I appreciate all the feedback. :love: Additional information on my background that led me here can be found here. http://helpcompletecorrie.blogspot.com/2012/09/my-ts-life-rough-draft-more-background.html

[Traci Elizabeth]

You want honestly - OK - I will give it to you. You are "rambling" and making little sense to me. You obviously have issues you need to address, and your self-esteem also seems very low. You seem to be wanting sympathy by someone telling you, "It's OK sweetie." Well, it's not OK.

You say you have a great therapist. If that is true then you need to find another who can genuinely help you and I am not talking about TS help. You should be concentrating on getting yourself mentally in a good place. Forget all this Transition stuff. You are not ready mentally for Transition no matter how long you say you have been transitioning.

If you want to spend your money wisely which you say you do, then spend it on the right kind of professional help. Forget the cheeseburgers and the HRT.

[Nicole Erin]

Life tends to get in the way of what we want to do. At least you don't have some wife or kids to deal with.

The problem with depriving onesself of the things we enjoy is it will nag us until the want is met.

Don;t feel bad if you are reckless with money. I know families who make real good money who are always having problems keeping up with bills.

With SRS - at least you can see it happening. You have a shot, some of us don't, life say us lifetime poor folks who are making choices between "pay insurance or buy groceries?"

With side jobs for extra cash - that is a good idea. I mean you work on your own terms, you are actually WORKING instead of like my "real" job where my day is spent standing around hoping a customer comes in.

If you can get financed for SRS then go for it. I mean cause the real world will throw crap at someone who tries to save money the "right" way.

[CharleneT]

A short answer for the financial question, for SRS you will need around $15,000. That will cover surgery and travel to a good doc in Thailand. More will give you other choices. Make an account and start putting those savings you mention in that account. Under no circumstances touch it for any other reason. Try not to look at the total for a while, 4-6 months lets say. After that, look, now you'll have an idea of how long it will take to save. You can adjust what you do from there.