Normal

[TGMarla]

I live in a situation that is probably somewhat common among married crossdressers. My wife doesn'tapprove of it, and really wants no part of it. Although she knows I crossdress, we never discuss it, and I truly believe she prefers it that way. She is a wonderful woman, and I love her dearly. I'm very fortunate that she's mine, and I hers. So I do my very best to keep my feminine interests away from her, and try to be the best husband to her that I can be. When we're home together, I stay in male mode. When I get the house to myself, I am at liberty to indulge myself in some girl-time.

She has this thing about "normal". Were one to ask her why she disapproves of my crossdressing, she might suggest that she's not at all attracted to women, since she's a "normal" heterosexual woman herself. Thus, she certainly doesn't want the man in her life to "be" a woman. She might also say something like "It's just not normal".

But what exactly is "normal"? A town in Illinois? (I attended college there.) Normal means different things to different people, and what's normal to one person is not normal to another. I know this to be true. I've been wearing women's clothing for so long now, it seems normal to me. It's true. When I'm en femme, I feel normal. It's not that I don't when I'm in guy mode, it's just that getting all dolled up doesn't at all seem out of the ordinary to me in any way. I feel just as comfortable in high heels as I do in sneakers, just as at home in a slip and hosiery as in blue jeans, just as normal in a dress as I do in a polo shirt.

So when someone suggests that crossdressing isn't normal, they're really seeing things from only their own point of view. It may not be normal to that person, or to most people, but this kind of a statement is only true when one defines normal as being the way most other people are. But that's not what it means to everybody, and certainly not to me. Normal to me is taking the opportunity several times a week to engage in some femme time for a few hours. During these times, I look and feel as much like a woman as I possibly can. And that feels normal to me, almost as though at that time things are the way they should be.

What is normal to you?

[SnowPrincess]

I am in the same position as you. My wife will say that her attitude has changed and that she accepts my cross dressing, then when she finds that I am wearing a bra or panties, she goes through the roof. As a result I do not get to dress much, only when she is in bed, but am trying to be patient and not through my cross dressing in her face, it is just that I am getting very tired of sneaking around.

[Leslie Langford]

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Marla. There are different kinds of "normal" - the individual kind, and what society as a whole considers common behavior.

Like you, I consider myself to be a "normal" i.e a run-of-the-mill, average crossdresser. I started out at a very young age, couldn't figure out why I had these strange feelings, went through the typical acceptance/denial phases, largely suppressed my crossdressing after I got married and while the kids were still at home, did the obligatory periodic purges, and once I hit my 50's and my wife and I became empty nesters, "Leslie" re-appeared on the scene with a vengeance. I began to refine my feminine appearance, started going out in public about 5 years ago, and haven't looked back since. This has also become my new "normal".

But does society as a whole consider this "normal"? No, because "normal" is a numbers game.

"Normal" has everything to do with what is common practice, and not whether or not something is right or wrong, or is otherwise acceptable or not. So in the real world, it is "normal" for a person to be an alcoholic, have a drug addiction, be a gambler, a wife-beater, be someone who cheats on their husband or wife, gets multiple tattoos or body piercings, and has no scruples about stabbing someone else in the back to get ahead. These things don't raise any eyebrows anymore because so many people do them, even if some of these acts are either unethical, immoral, self-destructive, inherently strange, or hurt others in the process.

But crossdressing? That is still largely seen as being an aberrant - if not deviant - behavior, even if nobody gets hurt because of it.

Go figure...

[Diversity]

Hi Marla,
You and I are in EXACTLY the same situation. The view of 'normality' is (and must be) looked at from the eyes of the beholder. No man/womoan was created equally and thus, each person will have their own views, which we all must take into consideration. Your SO has been kind enough to let you know her viewpoint. I encourage you to respect this - just as I am doing. As I said, we are both in the EXACT same situation. I count my blessings that I can at least talk to my wife about my views on CD'ing and my need to do so. She definitely wants nothing to do with this,but at least I have been open and honest with her.
You and I both must respect our wives and appreciate the fact that they did not leave us, for being honest with them about our needs, and just get on with life and appreciate the moments when we have 'alone' time to dress the way we feel is 'normal' to us.
Thank you for your post.
Kind regards,
Di

[Kate Simmons]

Beats me Marla. I would probably equate "normal" with "average". I'm beyond that and think and live outside of the convenient "box" everyone wants to put us in.:)

[Marleena]

Marla, being CD/TG/or TS is our normal. Any CD or TG/TS that goes to a therapist will be told the same thing. Only the general public doesn't know it, or understand it.

[Aloha Jayne]

I like to think of "normal" as a bell curve. If you've ever been graded on one, you know what I mean. Most people fit in the middle part of the curve and don't stray too far to the left or right. Then there are others that are a little farther from the center, and still more of us that are off in the fringes. The issue isn't what is normal or not, because that is just a mathematical equation. But what is the tolerance level for those of us that aren't in the middle.

My wife is one that cannot comprehend anything but normalcy, and doesn't understand why anyone would be anything else. And God Bless her, I love that about her. I, on the other hand, have always prided myself for thinking outside of the box, and striving to free myself of the pressures that the normal people put on us to conform. There is a strong desire in all societies, to want everyone else to be just like they are and a huge resistance, even sometimes resulting in violence, to anything that doesn't fit the norm. This is actually a survival instinct in almost all species.

So my wife is just being "normal" when she tells me how badly she hates the thought of me feeling like a woman. Count yourselves as most fortunate, those of you who's wives at least tolerate your CDing as long as they don't know about it. And try your best to be who they want you to be when you are with them because they are just being normal.

[PretzelGirl]

Well, from a CD perspective, my normal is not the same as yours. Mine is dressing at home, doing it in front of my wife and daughters, and getting out when appropriate. My normal is certainly not average.

Which brings out the question of the definition of normal. Normal to me is in the eyes of the beholder. Most people think everything they do is normal. Others do what they do intentionally so they won't be normal. But many view normal in different ways. Heck, normal changes on virtually a daily basis. Behavior changes. Normal attire changes. Social preferences change. So with that, our view of normal changes. Talk about a word with no set meaning!

[Tina B.]

Normal is a funny word, everyone gets to find there own definition! As in I know I'm normal, I'm not sure about the rest of you.
Tina B.

[Jenniferathome]

I disagree. Crossdressing is not "normal." When the term is used, is it always from the viewpoint of society in general. Our own personal views aside, and like it or not, society decides what "normal" is. While you and I may feel normal when dressed, that does not translate to societal views. I think you want everyone to think about crossdressing as you do. That's not realistic and not "normal."

[famousunknown]

Thus, she certainly doesn't want the man in her life to "be" a woman. She might also say something like "It's just not normal".


According to the way most of society thinks, she's absolutely right. Of course we CD's son't see it that way, and will adapt whatever definition to be what we consider to be "normal". Bottom line, CD-ing is still not normal.

[Angela Campbell]

It's normaL for me. This is the way I have always been.

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Marla,

Of course, you already know the situation regarding my wife, but it might surprise you to know that I don't dress fully en femme at home much at all ... only once in a long while. Going out socializing, ah ... that's different. We go out as "two girls" all the time, mostly because our "social circle" are friends from our TG support group and so most only know me as Rachel, therefore when we go over to their houses to hang out I'm always in girl mode.

My "normal" regarding how I present at home is a fairly girly guy type of image. I'll wear girls jeans and tees, with earrings etc (I'm always under-dressing) without wearing a wig or forms or trying to present as female. I just basically tend to copy whatever my wife does. If she changes into her girly PJs early in the evening to watch TV, then I do too. Our "normal" at home is to mix up my presentation. Going out socializing I'm always a girl unless it's a "husband and wife night out" which happens from time to time, then I always go in boy mode without the girly overtones. So our "normal" is not very normal compared to the general population. LOL :)

Hugs
Rachel

[Frédérique]

What is normal to you?

To me, “normal” means average – not too cold and not too hot, not too colorful and not too drab, not too noisy and not too quiet, also not too good and not too evil. If you take the median or average of the population, consisting of those people who conform to or constitute an accepted standard of behavior, you come up with the normal way that things are. There is normal type, normal appearance, normal achievement, normal function and normal development. If most people are doing it, they are engaged in doing something NORMAL...

Naturally (BTW, natural is considered to be normal, too), we MtF crossdressers are not normal. We don’t ascribe to normal appearance, we are anything but normal type, and we do something highly abnormal, which may or may not have anything to do with normal development. Of course, many of us live normal lives, BUT for the crossdressing. Personally, I feel that “natural” is anything but normal, and crossdressing is a naturally occurring human urge (or characteristic). It feels quite normal to crossdress, if I may say so, but everyone else takes issue with this deviation from normalcy. I am supposed to conform, don’t you know, because I’m making normal people very nervous...

Since procreation is normal, any schism that appears in the Male plus Female "natural" order of things is censured out of hand – only non-normal people dare to sympathize with outsiders, and they themselves cease to be normal in the process. Normal is the majority, and crossdressers are banished to the minority, probably for reasons of safety, brought on by instinctual prejudice. I feel sorry for the normal people, and I thank my lucky stars daily for being different (and thus not normal)! Normally I would stop after three paragraphs, but there’s more...
:doh:

My sister and I like to sit around and list the many ways we are not “normal,” just for fun. We aren’t married, we have no children, we don’t go to church (highly abnormal in this town), we don’t socialize, we don’t really go anywhere, we don’t follow trends, we seek out really strange movies no one has ever heard of, we don’t read best-sellers, we don’t Facebook, we don’t tweet, we rarely talk on the phone, we don’t smoke, don’t drink, don’t dance, don’t grill, and we don’t go out looking for sexual partners. Also, I am a MtF crossdresser, and, since my sister is NOT normal, she accepts me just the way I am, in fact her abnormality provided a boost to her little brother during the latter’s formative years. In short, normal sucks...

Out here in the middle of Kansas, a woman wearing a skirt or dress is abnormal, unless you’re a Mennonite – to them, females wearing dresses is NORMAL and expected, I might add. Go figure. Being a crossdresser amongst the normal locals is somewhat nerve-wracking, but I like the challenge. To me, wearing the “wrong” clothes always feel normal, and a normal day, part of my normal existence, involves wearing something very comfortable and VERY attuned to my nature. I’m sure the locals would look down on me, since that is a normal reaction in these parts, but I’m only trying to feel normal by doing something above and beyond what I am required (or supposed) to do. It will never be normal to crossdress, unless you’re a crossdresser, and then it is beautifully, fantastically, magically normal...

Normally I sleep during the day, but I seem to be on someone else’s schedule – this is definitely NOT normal! :eek:

PS - Normally I hug my friends. :) For you, Marla: :bighug:

[Emily Ann Brown]

My normal is HIM for work (if I had it) and HIM for a date with my sweetie. My sweetie is not a lesbian put doesn't mind casual HER at her place. I am 100% HER at home. I am very blessed. It just takes alimony to get the blessing....HAHAHA.

My EX is author. I am working on my own book...called "Clothes really do make the man"!!!

Em

[docrobbysherry]

I'm over 60. Marla. I've never felt or acted "normal" my entire life. However, when I suddenly desired to dress at age 50, I thot, "This is NOT NORMAL!" Unfortunately, I still think that for ME, it isn't!

Let me add, I'm certain if I felt I were TG or TS, I would feel very differently about my dressing!

[Paula_56]

It's abnormal to be normal!

[Sarah Doepner]

We grow up and are told to "Be an individual", but if you are too much an individual you were told to be "normal". I've tried to stay away from being normal, average, run-of-the-mill, predictable, boring, the same as everyone else, within one standard deviation of the mean . . . and on and on. However, I found that no matter what kind of unusual activity I did or attitude I adopted and found satisfying and nurturing for me, there were others who shared it. So that subset of the unusual came with it's own set of normal.

So now I live in a world where it's normal for me to know (and even like) some people who are uncomfortable with anything that differs from traditional bianary sex roles. It's also become normal for me to seek out and enjoy time spent with people who are very far in the other direction down the bell curve from those same gender expectations. It seems that the concept of "normal" is a very subjective and flexible one once we move beyond the purely statistical. As much as anything else the range of normal under that subjective curve reflects how open and flexible we are as individuals. There are people who are perfectly comfortable letting others set those parameters for them and have a very narrow field of view, even when there is evidence that contradicts what they believe. It's what makes their life comfortable. I'm happy to observe, participate and engage in new things to decide for myself and it has spread the tails of my particular Gender focused bell curve a long way out from the center. Other issues have their own bell curves to examine. Politics, Food, Entertainment, Economics, Relationships, Ethics and so on, all have their own 'normals' that have to be addressed on their own, and even if they overlap, stand on their own. This can create that hobgoblin, inconsistency and result in distress. As Kurt Vonnegut would say, "And so it goes." As I would add, I guess it's normal.

[outhiking]

And yet, when women dress as men, meaning actually wearing men's shirts and pants, it's farily accepted. I guess they are not seen as threatening while a man dressed as a women somehow is threatening or at the very least disconcerting.

My wife also only accepts "normal" and is confused and even a little disgusted with the thought of crossdressing.

[TGMarla]

I really don't think it's a "threatening" thing. I think it's more that women aren't trying to look like men more than they're just slobbing it for comfort's sake. They also want to see their men as men, not women. Women don't stop acting like women when they toss on a flannel shirt and sweat pants. But men stop acting like men when they throw on a dress and toss in a set of boobies. It's not a transitive situation when you peel a few layers away.

Sure, in a perfect "Leave it to Beaver" kind of world, we'd love to see our women wearing dresses and high heels more often, but in reality, practicality won over.

[Brianna612]

I AM NOT NORMAL and I like it.

No wait I Love it.

[Erica2Sweet]

What is "normal" in everyday society here in the US is definitely a bit different that what passes for "normal" in our household.

Young folks entranced by cell phone gadgets and consuming hours per day of mindless television drivel. Family not eating meals around the dinner table. These are things most people would consider "normal" but just don't fly here at our house.

So, yes, we're OK with our version of normal and very much prefer it to society's definition of the term...

[Beverley Sims]

I have been trying to work out normal for years.

[ReineD]

What is normal to you?

I think that "normal" is strictly a question of numbers. It's what people see around them in their daily lives and in the media. Even if all the CDers in the world were to dress publicly on a daily basis, I don't think there are enough to accustom society to cross-gender expression.

Our best bet is to ramp up public education about gender variance, and this would include people who wish to present in a manner opposite than birth but who do not identify as transsexual.

Edited to add: Outside of "normal", if you think of it in terms of sheer numbers, is a good place to be. Think of the great artists, scientists, and philosophers.


And yet, when women dress as men, meaning actually wearing men's shirts and pants, it's farily accepted.

(Apologies to members who see me trying to endlessly explain this)

We are not wearing men's clothes. We are wearing women's clothes, purchased in women's stores, and cut to fit our women's bodies. We are not attempting to present as men!

People are a lot more accepting of this:
http://www.lindaclifford.com/Images/KiltGuys.jpg
http://www.zappos.com/mountain-hardwear-elkommando-kilt-otter

than this:
http://i.usatoday.net/life/_photos/2012/01/02/Cross-dressing-humor-falls-flat-in-Work-It-IBPO9VQ-x-large.jpg

What's the difference? The first pic are men who do not portray themselves as women, just like women do not portray themselves as men when they wear jeans. The second pic are two males who present as women.

[GaleWarning]

All of us are normal.
This is the standardised normal distribution curve ...

http://www.oswego.edu/~srp/stats/z.htm

According to the mathematics, 68% of us are about average, within one standard deviation of the average (mean).
Another 27% of us are slightly strange, being within 1 and 2 standard deviations of the mean. (68+27=95).
A further 4.7% of us are definitely unusual (gifted? the innovative, the leaders?) who are within 2 and 3 standard deviations of the mean.
And finally, only 0.3% of us are definitely strange, outside the third standard deviation.

MAD magazine said it correctly, why be normal?

[Leslie Langford]

"We are not wearing men's clothes. We are wearing women's clothes, purchased in women's stores, and cut to fit our women's bodies. We are not attempting to present as men!"


Fair enough, Reine, but then why the constant emphasis on the "masculine" derivation of some of these styles - as in "menswear", "boyshorts, "the boyfriend jacket" etc.? Why not just call them unisex and be done with it?

There's got to be an erotic component to this that women find appealing on some level, even if it is outside the realm of "true" crossdressing.

[kimdl93]

My guess is that when a person objects to something that is unconventional, they may be responding out of fear. Perhaps it's a fear of losing the person they love to another lifestyle. Perhaps the idea of loving a CD while en femmedoes conflict with a mental image of what they find appealing in a person. That's pretty much hard wired, so it's awfully hard to overcome. And some people do hold deep prejudices against any deviation from the mean.

[suchacutie]

Marla, I just got done responding to another thread in which I explained that after having not dressed at home for a few weeks, my wife suggested that the planets had alligned and that Tina should "come to visit". In the past it was an event when Tina visited after being away for a while but last night was incredibly...normal. It wasn't a normal "he/she" night, but a normal Tina visit, just two girls making dinner and visiting and doing their respective crafts as the night wore on with almost no conversation! Just...normal!

Marla, my wife is also a "regular" heterosexual woman. Tina and she are girlfriends! My wife has other girlfriends and teaching Tina to be a girlfriend has been quite a bit of fun, and remarkably insightful! Ok, so the vast majority of married couples don't have the advantage of being able to mix the standard gender relationships. However, Tina and my wife are "normal" girlfriends". I and my wife are "normal" spouses. So, there is a lot of normalcy possible, even though transgendered men are in the minority in the population (as far as we know).

It's just a question of how one wants to view normal!

Gook luck with increasing normality :)

[NicoleScott]

So when someone suggests that crossdressing isn't normal, they're really seeing things from only their own point of view.

Marla, it sound to me like your wife is trying to see it from your point of view, by allowing you your needed time, place, and space to do your thing.

[TGMarla]

I don't have any problem with my wife's approach to all of this. I never told her before we married, and this wasn't what she signed on for when she threw in with me. So we've reached what is a workable compromise for me and her. I won't complain about it.

[GeminaRenee]

"Normal" is just another hoop that we're supposed to jump through - you know, if you're into doing what other people want you to. That sort of thing doesn't do much for me!

[BRANDYJ]

NORMAL is so different for every person. What's normal for me, may not be normal for you. What's normal for my SO and I in the way we feel, things we do, things we think the same about is also normal for us. I promise you, it is not normal for all others.
Society may dictate that I am not normal. That only means that the majority of people would not find crossdressing normal. OK, I get that. But it's also not normal for a guy like the late Steve Irwin to jump on crocodiles and poisonous snakes. So I ask, who is crazier? LOL

Not being normal can be a good thing. I know I'm not normal to most. And I am happy that I am different.

[ReineD]

"We are not wearing men's clothes. We are wearing women's clothes, purchased in women's stores, and cut to fit our women's bodies. We are not attempting to present as men!"


Fair enough, Reine, but then why the constant emphasis on the "masculine" derivation of some of these styles - as in "menswear", "boyshorts, "the boyfriend jacket" etc.? Why not just call them unisex and be done with it?

There's got to be an erotic component to this that women find appealing on some level, even if it is outside the realm of "true" crossdressing.

No. I promise you there is no erotic component when a woman buys undies that are labeled "boy shorts". lol

In generations past, wasn't it a sort of romantic pledge for the cheerleader to wear her football hero boyfriend's letter jacket? I'm guessing the "boyfriend jacket" is reminiscent of this.

The "boyshorts" are just marketing words meant to impart a perhaps romantic mood and does not indicate the panties are men's wear. Look at the difference between this:

http://shopciara.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/boy-shorts.jpg

And this:

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12400000/boxers-hommes-vos-xl-mens-underwear-12408536-300-300.jpg

I guarantee you both those garments are cut differently, and the pink pair is decidedly feminine, meant to actually attract a boy and not dress like him. :) Also, maybe women are tired of referring to their underthings as "panties". :p

[thewife/soon2bex]

Normal according the dictionary - not our interpretation is.. Normal means regular, natural or staying with the general standard. (adjective) which can be found here http://www.yourdictionary.com/normal

I don't believe it is a "normal" standard that should be associated here. This is a preferrence. The ability to accept that you need and want to do what you need and want to do. But, also understanding that it is her RIGHT to feel as she does. This should be respected.

I also - as a GG - get offended when someone says that I need to react in a certain way or feel a certain way due to their needs. I would surely say "what about my needs, feelings and beliefs". It's 2 sided. ALWAYS..

I have seen so many who have said this is who I am. I get that. I get that it is something someone is born to do and respect that. But, as a GG I would also say that this is who I AM and this is what I WAS born to be. A woman who does not have the same beliefs or feelings that someone else would have. I would respect them as long as they respect my beliefs and feelings.

Just my 2cents..

[terri_sandal]

I understand where your coming from ,my wife used to tolerate my dressing and when we worked I used to get time alone when she was at work but now we are retired she is here all the time and I never get me time anymore and it's driving me crazy . I have approached the subject and have been told I an not normal as I don't fit within her confines of normal that is ,it's very frustrating indeed

[Michelle (Oz)]

I understand where your coming from ,my wife used to tolerate my dressing and when we worked I used to get time alone when she was at work but now we are retired she is here all the time and I never get me time anymore and it's driving me crazy . I have approached the subject and have been told I an not normal as I don't fit within her confines of normal that is ,it's very frustrating indeed

Terri

As I approach 'normal' retirement age (i.e. the age that employers think you should be retired), it is your situation that really worries me about the future. It is why I came out to my wife a few months ago but, sadly, she did not and will not tolerate even a DADT so I'm facing your frustrations.

Michelle

[TGMarla]

One of these years, I will also be in the very same boat. I think about it often.

[Teri Ray]

My situation with my wife is very close to Marla's. My wife knows I dress when she is away. She is willing to accept that as long as I do not push for her to accept more. We are in a DADT situation. My opinion is she is willing to accept my behavoir as off normal but accepatable as long as she does not have to see or participate. I cannot blame her. For me its not about fixation on norms. Its about reality. I believe my wife has worked out an acceptable compromise. I am quite happy with our situation. In my opinion normal isn't what crossdressing should be defined as. I believe that is not normal ( if it were there would be no need for sites like this) but that being said if it isn't normal is it harmful. That question, I believe, can only be answered by each family. For our family I think we have found compromise that works for us. Now is that normal?

[RADER]

We are not wearing men's clothes. We are wearing women's clothes, purchased in women's stores, and cut to fit our women's bodies. We are not attempting to present as men!.


About a week ago, my Wife And I went to Red Lobster for dinner. (Had a Coupon)
All the female waitress where wearing men's white shirts. with Pockets.
You could tell by the way the buttons where facing. Left over right.
I mention it to my wife, and she said that the pants look male also by the cut of
the crotch, and the similarity to what the men waters where wearing.
So I Guess the GG where paid to cross dress. LOL
On a different note, Years ago I built a few Super Gap Stores. The SA always
told me that GG would cross from girls to men to buy pants, because some where
cheaper, even though they look alike. Men however would never cross to the female side
of the store.
Rader

[TGMarla]

I've seen the uniforms at Red Lobster and at other places as well, like Olive Garden. The female wait staff wear neckties. Guy neckties. And while I don't necessarily think of it as crossdressing, I think it sucks to make women wear male ties. The don't look good on women. The women should be allowed to wear something more gender appropriate, like a kitten bow or something. And a female cut on the shirts wouldn't hurt either.

[Stephanie47]

I think your wife, my wife and the vast majority of folks views cross dressing as aberrant behavior- not conforming to societal norms or expectations. The group determine what societal norms are. And, societal norms or expectations are always in a state of flux.

[ReineD]

About a week ago, my Wife And I went to Red Lobster for dinner. (Had a Coupon)
All the female waitress where wearing men's white shirts. with Pockets.
You could tell by the way the buttons where facing. Left over right.


I agree, the restaurant is being sexist and they should at least spring for women's white, collared blouses and black slacks. Maybe someone at Corporate got a great deal on a truckload of men's white shirts and black pants? lol Or, maybe they don't want the waitresses to distract all the dads (it's a family restaurant) in form fitting blouses and bottom hugging slacks? :p But whatever their reasons for requiring the female wait staff to wear those clothes, the waitresses are complying with company policy. This most definitely is not CDing, it's a work uniform.

--------------------------------------

To those of you coming up on or recently retired, I strongly suggest you have deeper talks with your wives about the CDing. Else you'll become miserable, which will make them miserable, and this is no way to enjoy retirement. Surely some compromises can be made.

[GaleWarning]

No. I promise you there is no erotic component when a woman buys undies that are labeled "boy shorts". lol

In generations past, wasn't it a sort of romantic pledge for the cheerleader to wear her football hero boyfriend's letter jacket? I'm guessing the "boyfriend jacket" is reminiscent of this.

The "boyshorts" are just marketing words meant to impart a perhaps romantic mood and does not indicate the panties are men's wear. Look at the difference between this:

http://shopciara.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/boy-shorts.jpg

And this:

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/12400000/boxers-hommes-vos-xl-mens-underwear-12408536-300-300.jpg

I guarantee you both those garments are cut differently, and the pink pair is decidedly feminine, meant to actually attract a boy and not dress like him. :) Also, maybe women are tired of referring to their underthings as "panties". :p

Three thoughts, quite random ....

1. I think the emphasis on masculine terminology mentioned by Leslie is consciously aimed at those who seek equality or even dominance. Why else would they use the terms?

2. It's not pink, it's "man salmon"! :battingeyelashes:

3. I prefer the term "knickers". It conjures up naughty, playful thoughts in my mind, a la Benny Hill. :)

Vivre la Difference!!!!!

[Jenny Doolittle]

One day I saw a license plate that read "ABNORMAL" I wish that I had thought to get that plate for my own, it was perfect!