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View Full Version : Is it sinful to wish I were a woman?



KittyMuffin
11-21-2005, 10:25 PM
Hello everyone. I am a man in the physical sense, but emotionally I feel as though I am a woman trapped in a male body. Not a day goes by that I don't wish I were a genetic woman. It is not a sexual thing; I have felt this way all my life.

I have learned to accept this and wait out the rest my life, hoping for a better situation in the next one. I can deal with that. But I have been becoming concerned of whether or not I will face damnation for it. I was listening to a religious radio show tonight and I got the impression that wishing I were a woman would be a rejection of God (the speaker made mention of it being wrong for a man to wear women's clothes for the reason of being feminine), and that I would have to face damnation unless I gave it up. Purging perhaps. But I know that I can't. I have tried, more than once, and in a matter of months I was dressing up again.

As far as sexual orientation is concerned, I beleive that I am a woman trapped in a male's body, yet I am physically attracted to women. Therefore, an altercation exists. If I see myself as a woman, then I am 'lesbian' but only because the male hormones are making me physically attracted to women. That is the way I see it, so I have made the decision to close myself entirely to love, since it would be a complicated matter.

I just would like to know if the majority of people in this forum think it is wrong or not. I am a good person. I can't think of any worse thing I could have done in my life, so if this keeps me out of heaven then so be it. I recently opened up to my mother about this, and she said that God wanted me to be a man. I know I should not question God's will but I have to wonder why he made me a man that wishes to be a woman? As I said, I have been dealing with this all my life. It's not just some phase I fell into.

That said, I'm not looking for sympathy or a quick patch to feel like it's ok. Please note that I am perfectly sane, am not depressed, and I don't want to arouse concern. Also, this is legit; I'm not an internet troll! What are your takes?

Tamara Croft
11-21-2005, 10:34 PM
I just would like to know if the majority of people in this forum think it is wrong or not.Uhm.... see that banner up there... it says www.crossdressers.com do you honestly THINK one person here is going to think it's wrong...... I mean what kind of question is that??????

KittyMuffin
11-21-2005, 10:39 PM
Haha! Point well taken. Well if it in fact really is a sin then I guess we're just lying to ourselves!
:-)

KittyMuffin
11-21-2005, 10:40 PM
I meant to put :)

Chloe new transition
11-22-2005, 01:01 AM
Kitty Muffin, let me ask you a simple question please?

Do you own real estate? If you do, you're already headed to eternal damnation! Sorry! :angel:

It clearly says in the Bible that Man shall not own land or real estate.

Have you ever been called into work on a Sunday? If you ever have, strike 2! You're going down for that one too! Sorry! :angel:

It also clearly says in the Bible that the day of the Sabbath is a day of rest.

The Bible was in my opinion merely a set of guidelines for living in respect of all, written for a particular time period some 1800 or 1900 odd years ago. Is it still appropriate in our far more complex world for us not to own real estate, or not to work on Sunday?

Just looking at those two bits taken from the Bible show that religion needs to adapt over time.

One last final question for you if I may? Was the sermon you were listening to one of those "send in a $1,000 vow of faith" type ones? Where the money buys shiney new chapels fitted out with imported granite and marble, and bullet proof limousines, rather than actually supporting the community at a grass roots level where the assistance is really needed.

To me, religion and Spirituality separated paths ages ago.

You need to look deep within yourself my friend, not look externally to live by someone elses code of ethics. Develop your own patterns of belief, that you can wake in the morning looking at your reflection in the mirror feeling genuinely good about yourself in the knowledge that you are a living, breathing, walking example of Gods right actions here on this human plane of existence.

Kim E
11-22-2005, 08:25 AM
To me, religion and Spirituality separated paths ages ago.




Hi Chloe ~
Excellent point. I couldn't agree more.

Kim

Stephenie
11-22-2005, 10:18 AM
Kitty,
God loves you. Always remember that.

Now, is it wrong for a man blind from birth to what to see?

It has been shown that there is an area of the brain that controls gender, how we see are selfs. It is not dependent on birth sex. So if a birth defect accures then a male mind can have a female body and a female mind could have a male body. Is it wrong to want it fixed? Is it a sin to fix a birth defect?

God will look in your heart, what is there?

Caitlyn
11-22-2005, 12:19 PM
There are so many ways we could answer this. I am not religious although I was brought up as a catholic. We can all see that 'God' features in your life and that you are a devout believer......but, if I remember rightly, the one thing that your 'god' gave people was choice.
The lesbian issue....sexuality and gender are two different things....I wouldnt let this issue cloud your judgement or alter your perception of what is right or wrong.
I would seek support from a therapist if I were you....they ARE a godsend

Kate
11-22-2005, 12:37 PM
Shessh. You Americans and your religions. It is like sooo last millenium ;)

Just give up believing in that "stuff" and start believing in the important stuff - like yourself!

*hides* :p

Kate.

PS. Well, you did ask for opinions! :)
PPS. If there is a God then all the fun people are going to hell anyway, so come join the parteeee!

Natalie x
11-22-2005, 12:46 PM
:iagree: Yep, I'm with them :IWS:

Rachel_740
11-22-2005, 12:52 PM
IMHO, religions seem to be very, very manipulative and preach according to the way that particular preacher see's things, manipulating the scriptures to read as that particular preacher wants them to read, on that particular occasion.

At another time the same preacher may interpret the same text to read something totally different, or he/she may chose a different text and read that so it totally contradicts what they have said previously.

The bottom line is that I take it all with a pinch of salt - including the existence of ANY God. However, I there is also no way I will dismiss religion.

As to your question KittyMuffin, I wouldn't worry about what any religion tells you. If you want a guaranteed accepting church, go to the MCC church, an LGBT church (I believe it's worldwide).

I am not religious, but I do occasionally attend church and I do enjoy it when I go.

Nothing like contradicting myself :rolleyes: , but that's the way I am, and how I feel.

Anne

Kim E
11-22-2005, 01:05 PM
Hi Anne ~
Very well said. I agree completely, based on my personal experiences with organized religion.
Actually, all I can add is 'amen'. ;)

Hugs ~ Kim

Julie
11-22-2005, 03:21 PM
One of the best responses to why we shouldn't follow the Bible word for word was something I first heard on the radio. I'm pretty sure it was a clip of Martin Sheen on West Wing. But it originated from a letter a listener sent to Dr. Laura regarding her views on homosexuality.

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.

The biggest flaw I see with those who quote the Bible is they tend to take things out of context to further their own personal agenda. I think it's safe to say God would consider that a sin, using His word for personal gain. When I hear someone say the types of things you mentioned I see that as intolerance of others' differences. That leads to hatred and I know God never intended for his creations to hate one another.

If you're listening to Christian radio and they are preaching things like that I suggest you change the station because that is not very Christ like to preach intolerance.

Chloe new transition
11-22-2005, 05:09 PM
Dear sweet Julie, what can I say? Your reply had me rolling on the floor in fits of laughter, thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. That is a gem I'm cutting and pasting to save for future battles that will inevitably come up.
Big hugs to you.

MaylinJane
11-22-2005, 10:41 PM
My opinion on this little matter is pretty simple. If there is a god, and if s/he created the universe, and if s/he is all powerful and all knowing. I believe all this is rather beneath him/her, and that s/he don't care what type of clothes we wear, after all clothes are a manmade invention out of necessity. God appearantly loves infinite variety, just look around and see all the different animals, insects, fish and people. I don't think s/he cares what religion you are either, jewish, christian, muslim, hindu, ect. I believe living your life true to what is in your heart with love and forgiveness, trying to do good and what is right, and helping your fellow wo/man is more important than following a strict set of laws and propaganda written more than a thousand of years ago by a people whose knowledge of life, science, and the world was extremely limited. God's greatest gift to us was our inteligence, and it should the greatest of all sins not to use it.

May

DonnaT
11-22-2005, 10:51 PM
Read the letters at http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/tgfgnl.html or http://www.drbecky.com/grace.html and make up your own mind.

MarieTS
11-27-2005, 02:05 AM
Well, Kitty-- let me put it like this...

If it IS a sin. And IF the Almighty sentances you to hell. Then, well...
You'll have plenty of comany there: ALL OF US!!! :D

Elizabeth
11-27-2005, 07:02 PM
Hi Kitty,

I'll take a stab at this one. This is the offending part of the Bible.


Dueteronomy 22-5 says

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.


Now, it would seem everyone has forgotten the first part of this, because almost every woman on the planet wears men's clothing. Are they are going to Hell?

However, this can get pretty confusinng. The Greeks, The Romans, The Ancient Chinese and indeed even Jesus wore garb that looked strikingly like a dress. There is not one picture or portrayal of Jesus I have ever seen where he was not wearing what I would say is an "evening gown". There was no such thing as underwear yet, so one can not be held to account for wearing them.

Now wait just one second here!!!!! Who decides what fashions are for what sex? Are you telling me Tommy Hilfiger is going to decide whether or not I am going to hell? In all seriousness, who is to say what clothes are for men and what clothes are for women from a point of eternal damnation? I mean, is God going to say "Hold it, let him in, it's just a kilt". Do you think God cares what we name clothes? Do you think god is going to go by what "men" think?

I think that the Bible was written by men, to advance the causes of certain men, which we continually see in one scandal after another not just in the Catholic church, but in almost every church since the history of churches. And not the Christians. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. All religious organisation where men are given spiritual power over other men, there have been corruption.

Also, one might want to bear in mind that Christianity, Judeism, and Islam all have the same God. Just different stories about who is going to be saved. And all of these religions are merely thousands of years old. There were religions before these. Modern man, Cromagnom Man, has walked the earth for 100,000 years.

I beleive that all these religions, including Bhudism and Hindu, all have one thing in common. They are guides to living a better life. They all teach to let go of material wealth, it will not make you happy. They all require you to help your fellow man. What they ask is that you be a good person, not just to yourself, but to others. But if you try to break these religions down, they are filled with contradictions. I mean the bible talks about witches. The Catholics murdered over 300 "witches" over a period of about 100 years. I think we can all agree there are witches. The Catholic church as since apologized for this mistake. They also apologized for Holding Gallileo under house arrest for the last years of his life for having the nerve to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the uniiverse and the sun did not orbit the earth.

Love always,
Elizabeth

TGMarla
11-28-2005, 10:56 AM
I have been becoming concerned of whether or not I will face damnation for it.

You really should get over to the Religious Discussion forum. You'll get more than you can read there. But answer a few questions while you're beating yourself up.

First, do you subscribe, faithfully and wholeheartedly, to Christian Dogma? Who told you that you might be "sinning"? Do you really believe that God is this white-robed fella that sits up on clouds listening to prayers? Do you really feel that God cares about what clothing you put on? After all, did God invent fashion? Was it him that first dressed Adam and Eve? (Now there's a whopping good fabrication!) Do you believe and follow every dictum put forth by the Old Testament? Do you really think that the fate of your eternal soul is going to be judged and sent to Hell for ever and ever to burn mercilessly without end based solely on what happens in the 70 or so short little years you spend here on this Earth? "Thou crossdressed! Off to Hell with thee....!" Do you really think that God speaks with "thees and thous"?

If the answer to all these questions is "yes", then you might be in some trouble here. And if the answer to all these questions is "yes", then I really pity you, too.

Ariel_TV
11-28-2005, 04:47 PM
If it really a sin and god doesnt allow it , would you really want to go spend the rest of eternity somewhere were you wouldnt be able to wear any fem cloths foreever ? That sounds like hell to me :P

Christina Nicole
11-29-2005, 10:56 AM
I'm Catholic, so the answer is actually quite simple. There's nothing in the Catechism about transsexuality or cross-dressing mentioned. There is text that deals with the laws of the Old Testament vs. the New Testament. (1961-86)

The quick summary is that natural law is permanent and immutable from the beginning of time to the end. Natural law is the foundation for both moral rules and civil laws. The Old Testament law has laws that pertain to moral law and also to ceremonial or ritual laws. The laws cited respecting cross-dressing are ritual laws. The suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ establishes the New Covenant. It is that obedience which relieves us of the ceremonial laws. It is the New Covenant that perfects the moral laws, which are based on natural law, of the Old Testament.

Since every Protestant interprets Scripture as an individual, I can't say how this applies to them. Furthermore, since I'm not a expert in Talmudic law, I can't say how what I call Old Testament laws regarding dress, sex, and gender apply to Jewish people. I'm not going anywhere near the laws of Mohammed or other religions as I have little knowledge of them in any detail.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

Strike
11-29-2005, 05:03 PM
Is there a story somewhere in the bible about some guys trying to cross this river, and one of them wishes to be a girl, and god grants his wish. I was told this story in church, anyone know about it?

Nyx
12-01-2005, 09:18 AM
The biggest flaw that I see with the bible is that it wasn't written by God, and that defining all your beliefs by the contents of some specific book whose content will never evolve is problematic. Furthermore, many of the things that some devouts say are not based on the bible at all. They are merely misquotations. People try to make the bible say what suits their personal beliefs/political agendas.

Barbara Joy
12-04-2005, 06:01 PM
I've read this entire thread. I read a book on this subject that puts the whole question into a different perspective. The name of the book is THE CHANGE. I don't know who wrote it, but it was written by a lifetime CD who worried with the same question. It deals at considerable length with the question of how God perceives us and how we perceive ourselves.

Barbara Joy

Julie
12-05-2005, 07:15 PM
The Greeks, The Romans, The Ancient Chinese and indeed even Jesus wore garb that looked strikingly like a dress. There is not one picture or portrayal of Jesus I have ever seen where he was not wearing what I would say is an "evening gown".

There's a movie called "Bruno" written and directed by Shirley MacLaine. It's about an eight year old boy who is a spelling genius but also has a penchant for wearing girl's clothes. MacLaine plays his hard-nosed grandmother who is tough as nails and raised her son (Gary Sinise) to be a tough macho man even though he had a talent for singing opera, which she discouraged. There's a scene in the movie where Grandma and Bruno are sitting at the dining room table and she asks Bruno why he wants to be a girl. The dialog went something like this:

"I don't want to be a girl."
"Then why do you wear girl's dresses?"
"They aren't dresses, they are vestments."
"Vestments?
"Yeah, vestments of power."

Then Bruno goes on to explain how through the ages people in power wore garments that looked like dresses and cites kings, emperors and Christ himself. Grandma liked that but said, "You know there's going to be people who will want to beat you up." Bruno looked at her and said he wasn't afraid.

MacLaine gets this impressed look on her face, gets up, gets a bottle of whiskey and two shot glasses, fills the glasses and they toast. It's a great scene.

So next time someone tells you you're going to be damned for wearing women's clothes just tell them they are vestments of power. Then call the guards and throw them to the lions. ;)

Daphne Renee
12-11-2005, 07:28 PM
well unfortuantly this is something you have to figure out for yourself.. what do you believe..

The bible clearly states that the 2 greatest commandments are..(I am summrizing here because I dont remember the exact scripture)

1. Love the lord your god with all your heart
2 Love thy neighbor as thyself.

You notice it doesnt say the greatest commandment is not wearing womens clothing.. In fact if you go back to the beginning.. Adam and Eve wore no clothes at all.. It wasnt untill after the first sin that they began wearing clothes.

Also the bible states that every man has sinned and come short of the glory of god..
So basicly you should try to live your life the best you can..

Darlena
12-11-2005, 08:12 PM
You girls are so wise. For what good is knowledge that's not tempered by wisdom. In other words; there are a good many so called "Men Of God" out there who know the word of God but don't possess any wisdom to go with it. Then they end up taking it out of context. Chloe, you are one of the wise ones. Very insightful. Know this, which I believe to be true..,you will be judged by the contents of your heart not by deeds. Remember Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s famous "I Have A Dream" speech where he says,"I have a dream when a man will no longer be judged by the color of his skin but by the content of his character"? I too have a dream. I dream of a day when God's children can live on this earth free from judgemental hypocrites that need to to mind their own affairs and pry that muck from their own unseeing eye. Dispise the evil, promote the good, and take a good hard look in the mirror(as I have). I'm quite certain had people like us lived under Hitler's regime we would have had to be gassed as well. I don't think God would want to partner up with that hellbound despot. Think about it. Wow! Enough from me already. I can't help but feel passionate when comes to us girls being bullied by ****!