How do you explain it?

[Lorileah]

How do you explain it?

"Can I ask you a personal question?" the woman across the table asked me.

Now I used to cringe when this was asked because I was always afraid it would be followed by "When did you stop beating your wife?". You know the questions that no matter how you answer they will be taken wrong (wrongly?). Now I just smile and say "Go ahead."

Usually it is something that isn't really that personal but more about who I am. This was no different. I was sharing this table with three women and a "sister" (read pre-op TS). The women were lesbians. They had asked me over to join them because I was sitting alone...drinking. (Yes I do that).

The questions were the standard ones. Gay? Straight? (wondering why a lesbian really cared), why do I put myself through this? And no matter how I tried to explain it, I could see she wasn't registering. I tried the "I was born this way." and she looked confused. I did the "because I feel better like this" and you could tell she didn't get that either. The one I liked was "so..if you were a girl you would be a lesbian like me?" That I could answer...probably, maybe I don't know. But the more I talked to them the more I could tell I wasn't hitting the chord. The answer she needed to make it all clear. I wanted so bad to tell her it was the same thing as why she was a lesbian. But that isn't true either. It isn't the same. If it was the same I would just be gay, right?

Why was at a gay bar? Did I expect to pick up a guy? Well no because gay guys like..guys, not guys in dresses (and specially guys who are really girls inside). Then there was the question "If one of the guys who used to be girls asked you out would you be straight or gay?" The TS at the table about fell out of her chair as she tried to explain that the post op FtM was in fact a man now.

So anyway, how or what would be a good way to try and explain "us"? I thought I knew but the confusion I caused was evident. It was all good, she just needed to know and I could not explain it so that she could get a perspective.

On another note, last week I decided for the first time I could go out without being made up to the max. Ball cap over my normal mid back blond hair (had to wear a cap because my hair has long since departed on top), T-shirt top over a bra with no forms, shorts and sandals. The only make up was eye liner and mascara, blush and light lipstick. While taking care of a friend's cat another friend (GG) came in and saw me. She knew about me so that wasn't a shock, but this week she stopped by my office and said "You looked totally cute the other day." :daydreaming:

Sometimes things just work out

[Paula_56]

sound like

Abbott: Who's on first.

Costello: One base at a time!

Abbott: Well, don't change the players around.

Costello: I'm not changing nobody!

Abbott: Take it easy, buddy.

Costello: I'm only asking you, who's the guy on first base?

Abbott: That's right.

Costello: Ok.

Abbott: All right.

PAUSE

Costello: What's the guy's name on first base?

Abbott: No. What is on second.

Costello: I'm not asking you who's on second.

Abbott: Who's on first.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott: He's on third, we're not talking about him.

Costello: Now how did I get on third base?

Abbott: Why you mentioned his name.

Costello: If I mentioned the third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third?

Abbott: No. Who's playing first.

Costello: What's on first?

Abbott: What's on second.

Costello: I don't know.

Abbott: He's on third.

Costello: There I go, back on third again!

[Rachel Morley]

I always paraphrase Eddie Izzard and say it's kinda like a male tomboy. I'm a boy who likes doing girl type things.

Eddie Izzard Quote:
“Cause if you're a transvestite, you're actually a male tomboy, that's where the sexuality is. Yeah, it's not drag queen, no; gay men have got that covered. This is male tomboy, and people do get that mixed up, they put transvestite there - no no no no! Little bit of a crowbar separation, thank you! And gay men, I think, would agree. It's male lesbian, that's really where it is, ok? Because… it's true! ‘Cause most transvestites fancy girls, fancy women. So that's where it is.”

[Kate Simmons]

Just enjoy it Hon. We have our very own mystique and sometimes that just makes others all the more attentive. We really cannot boil it down for others as this, that or the other thing. It's mostly about who we are.:)

[Wildaboutheels]

Try this: "I wear what makes me happy and what I find stylish and comfortable. To let Society dictate to me what to wear would be silly don't you think"?

[Raychel]

Pretty simple and will work for just about everyone,
Ask them the question, When you get home from work, do you gat changed out of your work clothes, and why do you pick the clothes that you change into.
Answer: I get changed to get into clothes that I am more comfortable in.
Reply: BINGO That is why I dress the way I do.

Why at a gay bar,,Cause at a straight bar, guys would be hitting on me, I like girls, so dressed as a girl that is where I should be, Beside, it is the more comfortable thing again.

[kimdl93]

I've had a similar conversation with a gay guy and a lesbian. The gay guy could not imagine that I could be TG but not gay. I apologized for not meeting his expectations, but pointed out that none of the gay guys were dressed like me.. Th lesbian siting next to me was arguing with him...rather odd to be watching this all play out...but she hit closer to the mark by observing that I really was a woman, inside, but a gay woman... So she got it..i think.

[I Am Paula]

Back in the 80's, when transition was still something 'they do over in Denmark', I spoke to my Dr. about hrt. He admitted he had only read a couple of papers on the subject, and had never met a transexual. He promised he would look into it further. He then asked me point blank 'What do you feel about becoming gay?' Huh. He said 'Of course, as you become more of a woman you will be naturally attracted to men'. That was conventional wisdom at the time. We left it at that, and I didn't persue the subject for TEN MORE YEARS, 'cause I didn't really want to become gay. Of course, no Dr. would say that now. Beliefs, science and attitudes do evolve, however slowly.

[Megan Thomas]

I just tend to separate gender and sexuality. Who i'm attracted to is a sexual preference. My gender is female albeit with a male body I'm slowly correcting to the correct appearance.

[Antoinette]

My answer has always been "because, I feel like it". Of course it's what no one wants to hear but it is the honest truth

[bridget thronton]

I have a pretty knowledgeable friend who made the comment that tg folks have a lot in common with bisexuals (she is bisexual - I guess I see her point)

[Aloha Jayne]

I wanted so bad to tell her it was the same thing as why she was a lesbian.

Why was at a gay bar?

Very interesting question Lorileah. It is just the same as being lesbian as far as I can see it. Or being straight for that matter. They are women, but they like other women. Why? Same thing applies for women that like men and men that like women. I can tell you what I like about women, I can go on and on about it in fact. But there is no answer as to why I like them and not men. Or why I like women, and sometimes want to be one. They should only ask themselves the same question to find their answer. We are just who we are.

The reason you were at a gay bar, more than likely, was not to pick up anyone. But a lesbian bar, I have been told, is a very accepting place to go for a TS, or CD. We want to go where we are accepted. I would prefer to be at dinner with my wife, while dressed as lovely as she is. But I would not be accepted by her or the patrons of the restaurant. So we hang out where we are allowed to.

Long answers to a short question.

[ColleenCD]

Hi Lorileah,

It's difficult to explain a variable answer to someone who needs a black and white straight line answer. Maybe try to offer clues which may point them toward something to think about without putting you "in a box." It would go like this for me though everyone may be different: 1) I like girls, they are attractive and pretty to me. 2) I like girls clothes, hair, and make up. They are pretty and soft and feminine, and I like that for some reason. 3) I like my friends, many of whom are men, but not "that way." 4) Dressing up pretty makes me feel (sexy, pretty, happy, etc) and it's exciting to go out to a bar and have a drink.

Hopefully then you can enjoy your drink and the company.

And thanks for sharing your great adventures Lorileah!

Colleen

[Stephanie47]

I have a dual personality. The majority of my personna spectrum is male. The minority part of my spectrum is female. I do not want to be a female. Stephanie does not want to be a male. However, Stephanie does surface and become dominant when her twin brother needs stress relief. Each is aware of the other. It is not a split personality 'disorder.'

[Lorileah]

I have a pretty knowledgeable friend who made the comment that tg folks have a lot in common with bisexuals (she is bisexual - I guess I see her point)

The interesting thing about that was she asked "are you gay?" I said no. Then she said "so you are straight." I said no. She looked really confused then. "so what are you?" I noticed she had a sticker on her shirt that said "LGBT for =====" I said, see the B on your sticker? I am the BT part of that. Then the conversation changed to the what ifs I mentioned and although I hate when people here say they are lesbians in a man's body that is what she understood. But the truth is if I transitioned would I be lesbian or straight? Who knows. I have friends who changed teams" while on hormones.




The reason you were at a gay bar, more than likely, was not to pick up anyone. But a lesbian bar, I have been told, is a very accepting place to go for a TS, or CD. We want to go where we are accepted. I would prefer to be at dinner with my wife, while dressed as lovely as she is. But I would not be accepted by her or the patrons of the restaurant. So we hang out where we are allowed to.

.

You are correct. I go to gay bars because the guys don't want me and the lesbians feel "safe" around me. The only time I get hit up is when the guy is pretending to be gay. Lesbians have always sheltered me

[Sara Jessica]

For the same reason that many in these pages cannot imagine a life where some aspect of gender identity is without question, the same holds true for the Muggles in that they live their lives with nary a second thought as to their gender.

I therefore use a very simple explanation that seems to work pretty well, that I wake up every morning uncomfortable in my own skin from a gender perspective, that very thing they do not give a second thought to.

[our gracie]

ColleenCD summed it up perfectly, word for word.
Thanks for putting my thoughts into your words.

Gracie.

[sometimes_miss]

I always paraphrase Eddie Izzard and say it's kinda like a male tomboy. I'm a boy who likes doing girl type things.

Eddie Izzard Quote:
“Cause if you're a transvestite, you're actually a male tomboy, that's where the sexuality is. Yeah, it's not drag queen, no; gay men have got that covered. This is male tomboy, and people do get that mixed up, they put transvestite there - no no no no! Little bit of a crowbar separation, thank you! And gay men, I think, would agree. It's male lesbian, that's really where it is, ok? Because… it's true! ‘Cause most transvestites fancy girls, fancy women. So that's where it is.”

Thanks, Rachel. This was really, really good, and I think it will help people much better to understand, well, at least, me.

[Cheryl T]

I just say because this is who I am. If I get a blank stare then I ask are you right or left handed. When they reply I ask them WHY?
They can't answer and then I say well...that's the same thing for me.

[StarrOfDelite]

I had a somewhat similar experience the weekend before Labor Day. I was invited to a gay bar by an Admirer whom I've known for a while, and by happenstance it turned out that it was the bar's monthly Lesbian Night. It wasn't particularly well attended, and the Admirer is a bit of a dud at the best of times, so I chatted things up with the lesbian girls. It was the first time I'd ever really done that, and it was a lot of fun. We didn't get into quite the depth of questions that you did, but sort of a similar dialogue occurred. In addition to the "Do you sleep with men?" (Yes), and "Are you gay?" (No) questions (they did have a bit of difficulty understanding how I could have sex with men and not consider myself Gay), the thing they were most interested in was the Admirer. "Is he gay?" (No, and again a difficult concept for them to grasp), "Why would he be interested in you if he isn't gay?" (Difficult to explain, you'd have to ask him), "Are you going to sleep with him?" (No, we're just friends).

Re: Your comment about going out without being made up to the Nines. The man in question, like most Admirers, likes to see me in skirts and hose, and I really wanted to go in shorts and sandals because the high temp that day was 88. However, he was paying for the drinks, so I compromised and wore a skirt, a knit top, flats and no stockings, and was way overdressed for the rest of the crowd. None of the girls were dressed particularly mannishly, either, unless tight jeans and scoop front Tees are mannish.

[Marleena]

I'm beginning to think a business card is the only way to handle this.:) You can put your preferred gender on it, your sexual persuasion, and anything else needed with a link to this forum instead of your phone number, or phone number or email version to people you actually like. Preconceived ideas seem to be alive and well out there. Some people just can't grasp it.

[ReineD]

I wanted so bad to tell her it was the same thing as why she was a lesbian. But that isn't true either. It isn't the same. If it was the same I would just be gay, right?

Yes, it is the same. She's a lesbian because she is made that way. She identifies female because she is made that way. If she identified as a male, she would still be made that way. I am opposite-sex attracted, identify female, and have green eyes because I am made that way. You are transgender, [insert sexual preference here], and have [insert eye color here] because you are made that way.

Simple.

They're half way there, they do understand that not everyone is opposite-sex attracted, no matter their birth sexual characteristics. Now they just need to take it one step further and also understand that gender identity also does not always mesh with birth sexual characteristics.