A question to other CDs

[Gena Gurl]

Ok, ive not posted a new thread in a couple of weeks and mainly cause I want to be cerbral about some of my posts (And I mean cerebral not offensive). I went out for my first time several weeks ago and had a great time, as I posted before I was realy scared. Went to a CD friendly club and there where about 10-12 gurls there who where very confortable and happy to be there. What's the problem you ask, well all where very friendly and polite then came time for some pictures and was prompted to be in them. I have stated before that I am straight and for the first time was very close to an other CD. My problem was that I was very unconforable putting my arms around them and them hugging me tightly. I was dressed kinda sexy and got lots of compliments (And what girl doesn't like compliments!). Am I over reacting or has anyone had the same feelings. Thanks Gena.

[kimdl93]

Yeah, you're over reacting. A little residual homophobia there? I understand that we all have our prejudices, but seriously, we can hug gay men and women, other CDrs, and even other GGs without making a statement about sexual preference.

[Marleena]

Yeah, you're over reacting. A little residual homophobia there? I understand that we all have our prejudices, but seriously, we can hug gay men and women, other CDrs, and even other GGs without making a statement about sexual preference.

What Kim said.:) As long as hands don't go up your skirt you should be fine.:heehee: Girls hug each other all the time.:)

[Gena Gurl]

Yeah, you're over reacting. A little residual homophobia there? I understand that we all have our prejudices, but seriously, we can hug gay men and women, other CDrs, and even other GGs without making a statement about sexual preference.

I don't understand where you get this homophobia business and prejudices I have no problem what so ever against gay, straight or otherwise I know that our community is in every gamet of sexuality. I am just stating how I felt as I felt uncomfortable being hugged tightly by a CD and have never been in that situation and made me uncofortable, that's all and wondered if any one else has had the same feelings and leave homophobia out of this!

[Amy A]

Is it just close contact with people you've only just met? I'm not a very touchy huggy person with strangers, it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. Can't comment on how I'd feel about hugging another CD, probably the same as anyone, if I know them and feel at ease around them it wouldn't be a problem, but if I'd only just met them like you had with these ladies it'd perhaps feel awkward.

[Marleena]

I don't understand where you get this homophobia business and prejudices I have no problem what so ever against gay, straight or otherwise I know that our community is in every gamet of sexuality. I am just stating how I felt as I felt uncomfortable being hugged tightly by a CD and have never been in that situation and made me uncofortable, that's all and wondered if any one else has had the same feelings and leave homophobia out of this!

Kim is not the type to cause trouble and neither am I. You're new here and to CDing I think, that was light hearted humor. You'll become more comfortable as you progress with things I think. When in a TG club or get together, it's girls getting together.

[Heather Daniels]

You asked a question. Kim answered it, then you get huffy with her about homophobia. You also made sure to say that you were straight. What the hell does that have to do with giving someone a hug? I think Kim hit the nail on the head.

[Gena Gurl]

Kim is not the type to cause trouble and neither am I. You're new here and to CDing I think, that was light hearted humor. You'll become more comfortable as you progress with things I think. When in a TG club or get together, it's girls getting together.

Ok, sorry if I took it the wrong way, but it didn't sound light hearted humor and you are right I don't know Kim, but telling some one that they are homophobic and prejudise from what I said was a reaching to a place I do not go. It seems as when some of us "Straight CDs" say some thing like this it is not taken well.

[Gena Gurl]

You asked a question. Kim answered it, then you get huffy with her about homophobia. You also made sure to say that you were straight. What the hell does that have to do with giving someone a hug? I think Kim hit the nail on the head.

Ok I don't want to start a war, but what does homophobia have to do with feeling uncofortable with a tight hug from a person I've never met and did not do any thing to warent that. I know see why some GGs feel the same way if a total strange man gives them a hug a tight hug at that, and they feel uncomfortable, are you going to call them homophobic also?

[franlee]

Gena, I can relate to what you are saying and some people are quick to over state their own prejudices by reversal. Which simply means over compensation is proof. Now what Kim said was true in her case and certainly not judgemental, it could be considered so but I don't think she was inferring anything other than a possible cause. As I said I feel the sameway as you do! I don't like people getting into my space, partially due to my background and partly because I just aint touchy-feely, only on my terms. Your question was a valid one and deserves a straight forward and honest answer. I think Kim's answer was that, she was just building a case for her reasoning. I do believe you were just reacting in a normal way for most new comers(for lack of a better name). You are not alone in your reaction and right to ask for inlightenment, just don't be surprised or offended if it isn't always worded the way you would like and in some cases even viced. That's what makes this forum so great, you can find opinions and or experiances for almost anything pretaining to CDing. Don't stop asking questions I serves for "food for thought" for all of us. And even test our own resolve on some issues.

Thanks for your thoughts and questions,
Fran

[Brianna612]

You know I’m a touchy feely guy/girl around my friends but not so much with strangers. Sometimes you have to go outside your comfort level to experience life, but then there are times when going outside your comfort zone can be dangerous. I don’t think a hug is much to fret about.

[Persephone]

Yeah, you're over reacting. A little residual homophobia there? I understand that we all have our prejudices, but seriously, we can hug gay men and women, other CDrs, and even other GGs without making a statement about sexual preference.

I find it interesting, Kim, that rather than talking about simply hugging other people you felt the need to make an exclusionary list. Hmmmmm, let's see . . . who is missing?

I see some hands waving frantically in the back of the forum and some folks shouting out "I know! I know!".

(Pointing to someone in the back of the forum), "Yes, Miss X?"

"Straight Men! She left out straight men!"

"Hmmm, O.K. Could her statement be heterophobic?"

Frantic hands waving.

As to Gena Gurl's OP, I think she may be asking about how others feel about gratuitous hugs from folks who are otherwise relative strangers. Perhaps we can relate to that without looking for "sinister" motives?

I was always icky and distant about gratuitous hugs and touches, so I can understand. I was even uncomfortable when my mother-in-law, a wonderful lady who was a hugger, hugged me.

I knew Leo Buscaglia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Buscaglia), one of the most wonderful men I ever met, and a hugger (he taught classes on love), and he recognized that I was not a hugger. I was probably the only person he didn't automatically hug.

Now, years later, and particularly en femme, I have learned to hug. But it took time.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[kimdl93]

I find it interesting, Kim, that rather than talking about simply hugging other people you felt the need to make an exclusionary list. Hmmmmm, let's see . . . who is missing?

I see some hands waving frantically in the back of the forum and some folks shouting out "I know! I know!".

(Pointing to someone in the back of the forum), "Yes, Miss X?"

"Straight Men! She left out straight men!"

"Hmmm, O.K. Could her statement be heterophobic?"

Frantic hands waving.

As to Gena Gurl's OP, I think she may be asking about how others feel about gratuitous hugs from folks who are otherwise relative strangers. Perhaps we can relate to that without looking for "sinister" motives?

I was always icky and distant about gratuitous hugs and touches, so I can understand. I was even uncomfortable when my mother-in-law, a wonderful lady who was a hugger, hugged me.

I knew Leo Buscaglia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Buscaglia), one of the most wonderful men I ever met, and a hugger (he taught classes on love), and he recognized that I was not a hugger. I was probably the only person he didn't automatically hug.

Now, years later, and particularly en femme, I have learned to hug. But it took time.

Hugs,
Persephone.

OMG, I left out GMs. To be honest, I've tried to hug GMs, but they keep running away!

[Stefanie jones]

We re not all the same

Some of us en femme are still men in girl clothes and r not comfortable when close touching by men

Some have no problem and want male touching. To each his/her own great four you to share with us

[NicoleScott]

Yeah, you're over reacting. A little residual homophobia there? I understand that we all have our prejudices, but seriously, we can hug gay men and women, other CDrs, and even other GGs without making a statement about sexual preference.

Can't we make a statement about our sexual preferences and express uncomfortable feelings about hugging without it being suggested that we might be homophobic?

Gena, it's a good thing that you said you're straight. If you said you're not gay it would have offended a lot of folks here, as I found out.

[kimdl93]

Can't we make a statement about our sexual preferences and express uncomfortable feelings about hugging without it being suggested that we might be homophobic?

Gena, it's a good thing that you said you're straight. If you said you're not gay it would have offended a lot of folks here, as I found out.

She aked and i gave one possible answer among many.My comment certainly didn't reflect any offense taken on my part. I simply observed that if hugging a person caused discomfort, it could reflect a degree of homophobia. Does that mean I'm calling Gena a bigot? ...no. But some lingering fears could be at the heart of her reaction. Each of us carries some baggage, some prejudices even after we've long since thought we had grown past them.

[Ressie]

I have stated before that I am straight and for the first time was very close to an other CD. My problem was that I was very unconforable putting my arms around them and them hugging me tightly.

Gena, maybe you could expand on why and how you felt uncomfortable. You said you're straight and felt uncomfortable being hugged by other CDs which one might surmise a fear of being hit on by someone of the same sex. And if it were homophobia, I wouldn't think that meant you're a bigot. Phobias are psychological fears period. If one has a phobia of dogs that wouldn't mean that they hate dogs, only that they have an unrealistic fear of them.

[drushin703]

gena girl: I kinda know what you mean. I go to a drag/cd club every saturday night and the atmosphere is always touchy-feely. It's just the protocol or
adherence to correct etiquette in places such as those. A hug between likeminded people is an acknowledgement that your a team player, kind of like
cutting your lawn. It means more if you dont do it, than if you do.

There are some very mean people out there who don't think or act very kindly to men dressed up as women. Enjoy, as a blessing, every act of kindness
you see.....dana

[Annette Todd]

Maybe homophobic was a bit over the top! I am probably agoraphobic Hugging in heel would scare the bejeezus out of me!

Seriously, there are those who were not raised in a touchy-feely environment and others may think you aloof. But, that kind of stuff is common among GGs. Wait till someone tries to kiss you on both cheeks!








I mean face you dirty-minded people! sheez

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Gena, I think that it's all part of the crossdressing thing to
dress and act like a lady in every way.

[April_Ligeia]

I understand this. I am not touchy feely, I pretty much tolerate this kind of contact but do not initiate it and avoid it if possible. It has nothing to do with prejudice of any kind because EVERYONE makes me a little uncomfortable.

[AllieSF]

I think that Annette has it right. My ex is from South America and hugging and kissing, including between the same gender is common place. I never did that before but picked it up quickly and have learned to love it. Funny thing is that my daughter does not like a lot of hugs. Go figure. So, your feeling are natural and not that uncommon. Your private space may be be larger than that for others. I say, do not take offense and, if necessary, in a sweet diplomatic way let others know that you are not into light physical contact with strangers, not their fault nor yours. Another recommendation is to try to go with the flow and maybe you will learn to like it like I did. Good luck.

[Leah Lynn]

I'm a bit stand-offish, myself. Please don't touch until we're comfortable with each other. And I don't think I'd really want to be in any photos on my first night out. I completely understand where you're coming from, Gena.

[EllenJo]

Let not over analyze this situation. In my life people run the gamut from shy to totally extroverted. I grew up in a huggy type of family and am a real hugger at heart. I have yet to go public dressed but if and when I do I would hope that hugging other CD's would be part of the experience. I guess it just goes to your comfort level whether in drab or en femme.

[Jilmac]

My maternal grandmother emigrated from a Mediterranian country where embracing each other is considered normal. I was raised in a hugging family and been straight my whole life, but I can still hug other guys while in guy mode or other CDs in girl mode. I think the whole male machismo is a load of crap, but that's just my 2 cents worth.

[Nicolesmyth]

Hi gena I'm right there with you. I have been out in public but never with other crossdressers. I have been to a cd boutique but not with other girls. I don't know how I would react ( a good hearty handshake by mistake is probably what I would do)! I think a hug would be nice but I would hope it was as a friend only. Besides I wear so much padding I probably would notice anyway!

[Beverley Sims]

In a situation like that touchy feely is the norm.
Relax and have a good time.
You are less likely to be recognised amongs a group than in a single photo of yourself.
With a group you are also less likely to be read.
"Just another bunch of girls enjoying themselves out."

[Joanne f]

I am with you on this one , I just do not like to be hugged by anyone but my wife , a few people have recently started to want to hug me including a sister in law and it makes me feel very uncomfortable , I have my personal space around me that I like to keep people out of and it has nothing to do with what they are it is just me .

[Amanda_P]

What did you expect to happen when you went there. You was dressed as a woman around other men dresses as women. All going out to make friends and be accepted as women. Sounds like it would have been a lot of fun. But them I'm a people person. If you didn't want to be around men dressed as women why did you dress up and go there.

[Diversity]

Hi Gena,
I am also a straight CD'r, and depending on how tightly I was hugged by someone I did not know, I would most likely feel like you did. Light hugs would probably be okay, but tight hugs do have, (in my mind), a boundary where they can be either under or over the top. I am also, admittedly, commenting on something I have never done - going to CD club. So I really don't know how things are supposed to be there. My comments are based purely on my experiences with personal interaction.
Sounds like there was no harm done, nor any harm or advances intended. So I would let things be and let it pass as perhaps someone who was, perhaps over zealous, in his/her welcoming of you to the club. Hope this helps in someway.
Kind regards,
Di

[Erica2Sweet]

Hi Gena.

You'd mentioned that you have just recently started going out presenting as female. I can tell you from experience that one negative side effect of being closeted for a long period of time is that our female side is not given the opportunity to become adequately socialized, and social skills are learned skills. So when the time comes for us to venture out and interact with others in girl-mode, we sometimes don't know how to process the interaction emotionally because we've grown accustomed to the comfort and safety of being alone. Also, in public, we initially often run everything we say and hear though our own filters to be sure we're listen and speaking in a way that we feel is appropriate for this new gender we are publicly presenting as. That is stressful and exhausting in itself.

When I first started going out, I found I would internally cringe when I would be faced with socializing with someone new when I was not mentally prepared to interact with them. Even if it was a store clerk or cashier. Rest assured, it gets much easier as we go out more and interact with others more often. Our confidence goes up as we learn and accept that we can socialize and share space with others and not be judged or ridiculed and end up with our feelings hurt as a result.

Here's another possibility: I've noticed over the years that I have felt this way whenever I was prompted to hug someone who I had just met, or who was fairly new to me. Recently I had this happen again, so I began to dig around in my memories to see where these awkward feelings might be coming from. I was able to link it to my childhood and how I was raised. My family was a very "hands-off" group in terms of showing each other affection (as in a no touchy-feely, no hugs, no kisses bunch of rather cold souls). I'm quite sure this is what causes me to feel internal discomfort when I meet someone new and they come in for a big hug.

Now I'm not saying I'm certain that unusual family dynamics is what is causing your discomfort, but maybe its worth rooting around in your memories to see if there's something in your past that is causing this, as opposed to the more obvious assumptions one could conjure when reading your original post.

[Gena Gurl]

Thanks for some of the support in what I said I know that there are many different views out there, but all I was trying to say was how I felt at that moment (and let me say that I know the difference from a friendship hug to a something else hug). For those that come from touchy feely backgrounds so do I, so it wasn't that. Any way I was just wondering if any one else felt the same that's all. Again your sister Gena.

[TxCassie]

Gena,
I think it's important to realize that you should react or be as physically demonstrative as you feel comfortable. I'm very tentative among new people in my everyday life. When I feel comfortable is when I become warmer. A friendly hug, check kiss, become normal expressions for me. So, I wouldn't over analyze and do what you feel is comfortable for you. Before you know it, you'll Ms. Congeniality par excellence!

Cassie :love:

[Barbra P]

I was raised in a non-touchy-feely family environment and I have never felt comfortable hugging outside the immediate family. We have had friends over the years that when we get together the men always hug my wife and she is not uncomfortable with this. I on the underhand feel uncomfortable hugging the other women.

I joined a tg support group and particularly like one of the other women, who as it turns out is also a member on this forum, and she is a hugger. The first time I walked into the room and she stood up and gave me a hug I was somewhat caught off guard and it was a rather awkward moment, for me anyway. I am aware that many gg’s casually hug, maybe kiss each other on the cheek, hold hands while talking but in this country these are not things many men feel comfortable doing. So upon reflection it occurred to me that if I was going to project as a woman I had better start feeling more comfortable doing what many women do if I was going to blend in. I can’t say that I eagerly look forward hugging but now when we get together, or part, we hug and I don’t think much about it. This has not changed my male persona one wit, I’m still not a hugger.

[Erica2Sweet]

...So upon reflection it occurred to me that if I was going to project as a woman I had better start feeling more comfortable doing what many women do if I was going to blend in. I can’t say that I eagerly look forward hugging but now when we get together, or part, we hug and I don’t think much about it. This has not changed my male persona one wit, I’m still not a hugger.

When I am in girl-mode and someone comes in for a big hug, I just try to remember that there is a liberal amount of silicone lodged between us. ;)

[Bradlie]

I'm generally a hugger...with people I know and am comfortable around, it doesn't matter their gender or sexual identity or the way they present themselves. I've not been out with other CD's, but if I ever am and it's hugs all around, I'd probably just go with it, though I would likely be a little uncomfortable just as I would be with any other group of recently met people. As far as it being something GG's just do, well, they have just as varied a range of physical contact comfort as we do. My wife is not touchy-feely or a hugger beyond her family and very close friends, and even then there's often a bit of reluctance or hesitancy.

[carhill2mn]

It is quite common for girls/women to hug each other as a greeting or when parting. This is another thing that will come more naturally to you the more that you are out en femme.

[dallasmann]

I'm a bit stand-offish, myself. Please don't touch until we're comfortable with each other. And I don't think I'd really want to be in any photos on my first night out. I completely understand where you're coming from, Gena.
Same here. Hugging aside, I am not posing for pics with girls I've just met.

[sterling12]

If your Family wasn't "touchy-feely," it's pretty normal to feel a bit odd when first encountering all The Hugging and kissing that usually happens around a CD Event. But, it usually isn't sexual, and it's more of a GF to GF kind of social thing.

Next time it will be easier, and with each encounter it becomes more natural. If someone wants to make it into something more...you'll immediately know that! It does occasionally happen, so unless you become interested, be prepared with a polite way of saying "Thanks, but no thanks."

I can safely say, "it goes with The Territory." So, just imagine yourself among happy people just like you. They are happy to be dressed, happy to be what they are, happy to have you as a companion. To be a bit socially affectionate is natural. I often advise Newbies who have never been out of their House that being "Out" can at first seem overwhelming and a bit frightening. My Advise is always, "Just go with it. Initially it's like A Roller Coaster Ride, lots of dips and plunges. But, like all Coasters, you eventually reach a point where it evens out." I am sure if you pursue your dreams, this "uneasiness" will even-out for you. I'll bet three months from now, you'll probably be thinking, "What was I worried about?"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Heather Daniels]

Sorry, I didnt realise that the "hug" was more than just a friendly greeting. Im not a touchy/feely type person either and I would have probably felt the same as you did. My apologies for reading more into it than I should have.