Don't deceive me!

[AmberDay]

I was talking with one of my fellow bus drivers <Helen- not her real name> tonight when she told me about 'one of those guys that like to dress like girls' got on her bus. Helen told me that she was dressed nice, red blouse, black dress pants, low heels, nice makeup; but when the passenger stepped on, she was able to 'figure it out' that it was a guy. Helen admits that she wasn't too crazy about having a cd/tg get on her bus, but kept her mouth shut. The passenger puts her fare in and asks for a transfer in a modified fem voice. Helen went off on the passenger, admonishing her for trying to 'deceive' her. <granted can't remember word for word what Helen said, but this is the just of it:> "You are a man, and while you are allowed to dress like you want, don't get on my bus and try to pretend you are a woman by trying to disguise you voice. You better talk like a man next time or you won't ride my bus. I don't appreciate being lied to you and people trying to deceive me by pretending to be something their not!" The passenger was embarrassed and sat down.

:eek: I stood there stunned. I never would have considered her to be like this. I consider her a friend and thought she was better than that. I gave her a friendly warning that she majorly crossed the line and could get in BIG trouble for saying that or sticking to what she threatened. I tried to explain that many crossdressers and transgender try to change their voice to blend in and not out themselves. She completely disagreed with me. "God made them men and they should act like it. I was well within my religious rights:evilbegon to put liars and deceivers off her bus. It's one thing to wear what one feels comfortable in, but another to try to pass completely as the other gender!"

No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get through to her. :sad: She doesn't know about me, but I told her about my transgender 'cousin' <me, actually> that lowers her voice to not out themself. "Your cousin is wrong then."
"Helen, if I were you, I would never say that again to a passenger. If you have a problem with it, it is best to keep it to yourself."

Now, if that happened to me; I go into a business dressed and an employee tried to 'call me out' for changing my voice, I would go ballastic! :bringiton: I would get the manager, store info, corporate numbers, flash the incident on social media, contact the local news. etc! :Punch: Although I would be embarrassed, I would stand up for myself and for other transgender!

I hope Helen doesn't get in trouble; and I hope that transgender doesn't think all bus drivers are like that. I hope Helen comes around. We are union though, so Helen doesn't have too much to worry about.

If I owned a business and I heard about one of my employees doing that, they would be out the door! :spank:

Amber

[Mollyanne]

UNION OR NOT, SHE REALLY COULD GET HER A$$ IN A WHOLE LOT OF TROUBLE NOT TO MENTION THE COMPANY GETTING SLAPPED WITH A MONUMENTAL LAWSUIT!!! TALK ABOUT CLOSED MINDED AND BIGOTED, SHE GETS THE "BLUE RIBBON"!!!!!!!

Molly

[Shari]

"Helen" sounds like a real jerk. Why do you bother talking to her?
She's not just ignorant, she's hateful.

[Noel Chimes]

It's a shame that we have to endure such disdain on PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. The person getting on the bus showed great restraint and clear thinking in not stooping to the driver's level. After talking to a friend of mine who works for the bus company here, he told me that "Helen" just opened the door for a harassment lawsuit. So if I were you I would suggest to your friend to keep personal comments to herself. There are many out here who would NOT try to play down the incident but rather escalate it to dangerous levels. And none of us would wish that on anyone.

[Cynthia Anne]

I think you did all you could do! But I for one hope she does get into trouble!!!

[BobbieBrooks]

Heck, I live in Mi and it would be worth the trip to ride her bus. Thinking a good lawsuit and I could retire early!!! Lets all get together and ride HER bus and hit the company with a class action suit.

[linda allen]

.....:> don't get on my bus and try to pretend you are a woman .................you won't ride my bus. ............... I was well within my religious rights to put liars and deceivers off her bus. It's one thing to wear what one feels comfortable in, but another to try to pass completely as the other gender!........................................

Since when is it "her" bus (or your bus, for that matter)? It's a city bus, right? It belongs to the city or the bus company, she is just the driver. She doesn't make the rules, she just drives the bus from stop to stop.

If the city has a rule against people disguising their voices while getting on the bus, fine, she can enforce that rule. If the city has a rule against dressing as a female when one is genetically a male, fine, she can enforce that rule.

Otherwise, her job is to drive the bus safely from one stop to the next and collect the fares. And be pleasant about it.

And what's with this "religious rights" BS? If your religion gets in the way of doing your job, you need a new job or a new religion.

The passenger might be embarassed to do so, but she has every right to file a complaint against the driver for her tirade.

[Annie D]

Sorry your friend/acquaintance turned out to be someone who was not the person you expected. We just don't know what a person's position might be about us and therefore we stay int the closet, so to speak. Someone who is as adament about her feelings is not likely to change. I probably would have simply said that although I respect her opinion (not really), I don't agree with what you are saying and caution her that what she says publicly can come back to haunt/hurt her professionally and leave it at that.

Too bad that there are many more of those who share a like opinion!

[Jorja]

Let's see..... I'll be in your town next week. What route does she drive?

[Violetgray]

I don't know, this seems fairly simple to me. Her "religious rights" end at trying to police other people's behavior. If we have freedom of religion in this country, and people can even choose to be atheist if they want to, then why should the be obligated to conduct themselves the way SHE feels they should according to HER god?

[Esteafanie]

Wow!!!! what happened to tolerance. I was actually yon the bus the other day do have a stickers that clearly states " commitment to serve everyone regardless of economic status, religion, gender...etc." Feel sorry for your friend. Kudos to you for standing up for us!!!!

[AmberDay]

I was too shocked to mention it when she was telling me about it, but the next time I see her I will remind her that her religious views can't interfere with the rights of an individual to express themselves. Granted I only considered her a work friend, but this has drastically affected the way I feel towards her. I know many bus drivers that can't stand the GBLT community, but they keep the stuff to themselves and share what they encountered away from the public. They don't like it, but they at least act respectful in the face of a GBLT passenger. That is all we can ask. The more exposure these drivers encounter with transgender passengers that don't act like Jerry Springer hopefully will change their opinion.

[linda allen]

...... I know many bus drivers that can't stand the GBLT community, but they keep the stuff to themselves and share what they encountered away from the public. .

I'm sure there are still drivers who can't stand the "black" community (or the "white" community for that matter), but their job is to serve the public and that means all the public. And the "sharing what they encountered" is inappropriate also.

It may be time for the city or bus company to have some diversity training. The agency I worked for had this on a regular basis.

[kimdl93]

Isn't it unfortunate that she felt 'her' religious rights entitled her to punish those who didn't conform to her particular religious beliefs. That's a very convoluted interpretation of religious freedom. I commend you for attempting to reason with her, but it seems a lost cause. If she gets in trouble the next time her prejudices are imposed on a passenger she will deserve the consequences.

[whowhatwhen]

Wow!!!! what happened to tolerance.

They literally turned it around into "Why aren't you tolerating my intolerance? Now whose the real bigot?"

Can you file an anonymous complaint?
Maybe not against her specifically but mention that an incredibly intolerant event happened and that it would be wise to get all drivers some sensitivity training.

Her attitude is unbelievably toxic and if it can't be fixed then maybe it can be silenced with the threat of unemployment.

[Lady Slipper]

Well Amber, It sounds like she would've been more comfortable with the person you kicked off your bus in your previous thread. Go figure. At least you warned her about treading lightly when it comes to LGBT discrimination, I hope you can help her understand the legal consequences of her actions.

[becky77]

Helen is another closed minded person hiding behind religion for her bad attitude. I don't really care if the person was CD, black, disabled etc etc. Making someone feel bad like that is bullying and harassing because of prejudice. I'm no saint there are always things I don't agree on but I would never allow my opinion to make someone else feel like s**t. Helen needs disciplinary action.

[Jorja]

Maybe all Helen needs is an intervention. 500 - 600 CD/TG/TS riding her bus all day long might do the trick. Now where is my Rolodex and phone?

[PretzelGirl]

Maybe we can have a convention there next year and use a hotel on her route. An educational opportunity!

[~Joanne~]

I was well within my religious rights to put liars and deceivers off her bus.

Actually, as a public servant, she has no rights at all while on duty. She used religion to justify her ignorance and has no business interacting with the public if she is that in tolerant to different people or life styles. So when people of other religions get on her bus, does she also try to throw them off also?

I won't called this person a friend. I would report it to your supervisor and let the chips fall where they fall. After all, isn't it your duty to report an employee that is way out of line? This girl didn't act like the lunatic you had on your bus so there was absolutely no reason for helen to say a damn word. Yes, I am tired of hearing these things

I agree though that you did the right thing and tried to educate her, even on company policy or how to treat people, but some people want to think they are a higher class than everyone else and are always out there trying to prove. Helen is one of those people.

[StarrOfDelite]

"Religious Rights???????" We should set aside all this crap about 'freedom of religion,' which most butthead American believe means "freedom to be intolerant," and make it a crime to practice any sect which believes it, and only it, has the answers to the secrets of the universe.

[MicheleCooper]

Too bad that loud mouth crossdresser was not on Helen's bus that day instead of yours. That could have been a youtube moment for the ages! It is ironic if not sad, the loudmouth cd who you feared would give the community a black eye is not much of a threat compared to what this bus driver might have done to the ego of a transgender girl going out possibly for the last time. I hope this girl calls in, but if she felt embarrassed she may not, which means Helen will feel she won the battle and her intolerance will never be punished. Some folks have the right idea, load her bus up with folks from the transgender community both sides of the spectrum male to female and female to male.

[giuseppina]

Can you file an anonymous complaint?
Maybe not against her specifically but mention that an incredibly intolerant event happened and that it would be wise to get all drivers some sensitivity training.
This is an excellent idea, but I doubt it would be truly anonymous. Anyone of average intelligence would be able to cast suspicion on Amber as the complainant and make her life miserable on the job.



Her attitude is unbelievably toxic and if it can't be fixed then maybe it can be silenced with the threat of unemployment.

Unfortuneately, only the threat of dismissal is likely to work in this situation. The only chance of reducing the prejudice is in a group with transgender and cisgender people charged with solving a problem not related to gender status.



The passenger might be embarassed to do so, but she has every right to file a complaint against the driver for her tirade.

I hope she does. She also has the right to retain a barrister to pursue this in court.

[Tracii G]

Seems that people who claim to be tolerant are the ones with the least of it.
You could have made the remark "I don't think Jesus would have acted that way"?
Its sad she has to throw religion in your face to justify her actions..............really sad.

[Stephanie47]

Amber, I hope Helen DOES get in trouble. There needs to be consequences for rude behavior. It is one thing to have an opinion, religious or otherwise. There is no room in society anymore for cretins to act in such a blatant manner. If I remember my living history African Americans were told to give their seats to white bus riders and to sit in the back of the bus. There is a lot of truth a person's true self is shown among friends and not what is said in public. I think we recently saw that.

[Cheryl T]

While it is Helen's right to have her opinion (Religious or not) she only drives the bus, SHE DOESN'T OWN IT!
It's not within her job description or right to determine if someone rides her bus if they adhere to common decency and sensibility. So long as they are not flashers, carrying weapons, abusive and the like it's none of her business what someone wears or does.
Had I been that person I would have taken her name and promptly called her company to report her as well as call my lawyer and sue the company and her.

[AmberDay]

[B]

I won't called this person a friend. I would report it to your supervisor and let the chips fall where they fall. After all, isn't it your duty to report an employee that is way out of line?



I'm union and not allowed to report on another union member regardless of what is going on. The union would take away my membership and I MUST be in the union to drive...... so I would get fired.

[AmberDay]

Too bad that loud mouth crossdresser was not on Helen's bus that day instead of yours. That could have been a youtube moment for the ages! It is ironic if not sad, the loudmouth cd who you feared would give the community a black eye is not much of a threat compared to what this bus driver might have done to the ego of a transgender girl going out possibly for the last time. I hope this girl calls in, but if she felt embarrassed she may not, which means Helen will feel she won the battle and her intolerance will never be punished. Some folks have the right idea, load her bus up with folks from the transgender community both sides of the spectrum male to female and female to male.

Ditto! I hope she does call in, but we may never know.

[GaleWarning]

I FEEL your righteous indignation, sisters!

But I also feel for Helen.

Her livelihood is being threatened by an equally bigotted bunch of people, who should be thinking about how to educate her, rather than how to punish her.

No wonder the world is against us!

[bimini1]

Damm what an ASS. If fact, she gets the ASS of the week award for sure. But as long as there is a planet earth with people on it, the majority of them will feel just the way she does. You can try to educate all you want, it's not gonna change a dammed thang, you will ALWAYS run into people like this.

[GingerLeigh]

Even if she OWNED the bus, she would likely get into trouble. Being just an employee, she has absolutely NO right to do or say anything like that. Find better friends, she sounds like a bigoted loudmouth. People always slap the "what GOD wants" malarkey in there when they don't understand or feel threatened or as an excuse to impose their own sense of nutty values on others.

Ppppbh. As if ANYONE knows what god wants.

Ginger

[Brianna612]

I don’t know of any religious beliefs that tell you it's OK to put down and belittle others. I hate it when people use religion to justify their own hypocritical actions.

[STACY B]

Lucky OL Helen didn't come across some other trans person ,,,Maybe take her off the Bus an put some Medicine on um,,,, Keep that little smart azz from getting sore next time Big Mouth ? Betcha I know one fat biatch that would an could give her a little lesson in Manners ,,, Pull her pants down an spank her bottom Blue !!! LOL,,,,, Let her walk home sucking her thumb an dare her to take it out till she got home ,,,,LOL,,,,,

[Julie Gaum]

Lighten up folks --- doesn't anybody see the humor? Here is a bigot complaining to a CD that she doesn't like CDs! We're not going to change a bigot's opinion so let's get a good laugh out of the irony of it all.
Julie

[Brianna612]

I have to say this Amber. I have read a couple of your posts and I have to say as far as I am concerned you are a superstar in the TG community. Being a bus driver you have the unique opportunity to meet the full spectrum of human beings. From the top businessmen and women to the homeless and everything in between. It can be a daunting job to be respectful and polite to everyone. I can tell that you carry yourself with great poise. I need to tell you that you are a super benefit to the TG community. Thank you! Keep it up Girl.

[Beverley Sims]

Good for you trying to explain the situation, but do not inadvertently out yourself to someone so strong minded.

[DebbieL]

Depending on where this happened, Helen might have actually violated the law. Keep in mind that if your locality has an "Equial rights" amendment, or similar civil right law, attempting to humiliate or degrade someone publicly could be illegal. In many companies and organizations it's a termination offense. Being verbally abusive to someone because of their gender traits is actually a form of sexual harassment. Imagine if Helen were a guy named Roy, and the person getting on the bus was a woman wearing a short skirt, heels, and a well filled tight sweater. Suppose Roy started tirading that he didn't want some ***** / **** / trollop on his bus and that if she didn't behave EXACTLY the way HE wanted HER to behave, HE would THROW HER OFF THE BUS. The woman could probably sue the bus company, or could at least file a formal complaint against the driver, stating the time and route taken, and the bus company would probably have fired Roy on the spot.

Another Scenariou would be if a woman with short hair, baggy pants, men's clunky shoes, and a baggy sweater and coat that made her look like a man, and she spoke in a low voice. Now, suppose ROY demanded that this woman BEHAVE LIKE A WOMAN and NOT BE DECEPTIVE.

There are certain things that some transgendered women sometimes do that could result in justified outbursts of this type. For example, if the transgender went to the ladies' room and went standing up and talking in a full male voice. Or started peeping into the stalls of other women doing their business, or made lewd remarks to women while in the ladies room, or just spent too much time at the mirror looking at other women's bodies and faces rather than her own (Women notice this and it really bugs them). It would be like a guy walking into the men's room and looking over the top of the wall separating the urinals and making loud and verbial comparisons of size and performance. In some cases, these actions could legitimately get a transgendered or transsexual MtF labeled as a sex offender. The main difference is that a man who "blends in", or a woman who "blends in" can often get away with behaviour that SHOULD be criminal and actually IS criminal, but he is just written off as a jerk or a disgustingly macho a**.

Women who dress and act like men is actually quite common. Even if they aren't trying to "pass" as men, these women often dress, act, and sound more like men. They often gain extra weight, and they are often very aggressive, including sexually. But these "Tom Boys" are accepted because they are seeking the same power and status that men seek.

When a man wants to look, dress, and act like a woman, it's a threat to men, especially men who have their own sexuality issues with either preference or identity. Women often assume that these men are making fun of women, because they have seen or heard about drag queens, female impersonators, or entertainers who try to make a joke out of it. It doesn't help that many transgenders often make the mistake of not dressing situation appropriate. Wearing club-wear to a shopping mall makes ANY woman stand out, and most women initially assume that a woman who is dressed too sexy is probably a drag queen - then try to verify that assumption. About 75% of all women, by the time they reach their 30s, have been sexually abused, in one way or another. For them, seeing someone who is dressed up like she's ready to get it on with some stud in a club, and she's shopping at the Wal-mart or even a shopping mall with Sears and Penney's (not top end) just looks totally out of place. In fact, most WOMEN who attempt to do this in public would be harassed, they might even be accused of soliciting.

Many transsexuals who have to live 24/7 for at least 1 year before starting hormones and surgeries quickly learn to dress situation-appropriate, wearing less "sexy" clothing and less "revealing" clothing - and dressing more like the other women in her situation are dressing. They are also more aware of what they DON'T want to show, even if they have it.

Helen's story gives no indication of any behaivior that would have justified this type of outburst, and you might even have a legal obligation to report helen's inappropriate behavior - she might be harassing other customers who don't fit with her norrow-minded "Christian bigotry". Just because you are Christian, doesn't give you the right to harass, threaten, and physically or verbally assault someone - just because you have made inaccurate assumptions about them. In the name of Christianity, we have justified torture, rape, mass murder, genocide of native americans, slavery, kidnapping, and the halocaust. The sad thing is that there are some people in some parts of even the United States who STILL feel that they have the right to do terrible things to other people based on their ASSUMPTIONS about them.

[dallasmann]

Ask Helen if her response would be the same if you were a CD who stepped onto 'her bus'.

[bimini1]

Didn't some sales person in a Macy's a couple years ago get fired for refusing to sell women's clothes to a trans person? And she was talking about this same "my religion gives me not only the right, but the duty to act this way".

[sterling12]

If she tries to impose her religious views on A CUSTOMER, she will eventually be getting into a lot of trouble! And although The Union Stewart will go through The Process of filing a Grievance, I doubt there would be a leg to stand on. The Punishment's will initially be monetary, and if she keeps it up, could easily result in dismissal. I have no Doubt they have lots and lots of anti-discrimination policies, and she is sure to be violating many of them.

If you can do it, via The Suggestion Box or whatever, it might be time to suggest to management that some more sensitivity training should be implemented. If they get a feeling that The Corporate People are going to get serious about it, then they tend to grudgingly obey.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Badtranny]

Bigotry isn't sad, it's pathetic. What IS sad is how frightened so many CD's are to claim their place in the world.

You know what the greatest thing about being out is? Being out.

I'm grateful every single day that I no longer have to pretend I'm not who I am.

[dallasmann]

Bigotry isn't sad, it's pathetic. What IS sad is how frightened so many CD's are to claim their place in the world.

You know what the greatest thing about being out is? Being out.

I'm grateful every single day that I no longer have to pretend I'm not who I am.
Not everyone has the same freedoms as everyone else and there's a myriad of reasons why that's true. This online resource allows me to be almost completely free in my mind, but my real world does not make such allowances, or rather, I have not been able to claim them all. In some ways, it's because I occupy so many points along the gender identity spectrum. I can absolutely understand why someone would not be able to accept that I'm sometimes this and sometimes that. For most people, even for those who are generally accepting of the CD/TV community, gender identity (which may include the roles some of us choose) isn't something that should be fluid. I wish I was as lucky as you are and wish everyone could even be as lucky as I have been.

[franlee]

Another hypocrite. I would bet she is standing there(or sitting) in a uniform that was designed for a man and is working in a job that was until the sexual reveloution a man's job. And then to hide her ignorance by justification on religious beliefs is proof that she is not only a hypocrite but simple minded. I don't know or care what denomination she is but when using the bible to justify your beliefs you must reserch that subject and weigh out the intire reasons for it's stance. I wont get into all that but I will say "Judge not least yee be judged." Acording to her standards you(whom ever) should have rebuked her representing a civil servant. And don't think for a second that a union will defend her in a law suit and your company can be held liable too, she is acting as their agent. I was a union rep. for years and can tell you now many of the members themselves just got their toes stomped too by this fanatic. And that's what unions depend on dues from the members and they don't like the bad publisity or members dropping out just to cover someone in the wrong.

[Sophia Claire]

I was well within my religious rights to put liars and deceivers off her bus.

Actually, as a public servant, she has no rights at all while on duty. She used religion to justify her ignorance and has no business interacting with the public if she is that in tolerant to different people or life styles. So when people of other religions get on her bus, does she also try to throw them off also?

Public service is a bitch, isn't it? ;)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Amber, You just can't fix STUPID!!!

[Debglam]

Hi Amber,

Another well written and well thought out post! I'm just sorry it is such a negative experience!

This woman is on extremely thin ice! Public transportation, public accommodations, lodging, etc. are held to a higher standard under the law. You just cannot discriminate like she did. The bus company would hugely liable. I would bet money that if this got to management she would be fired. You may want to let her know this.

Or just hit her on the head with a wiffle ball bat!

Debby

[donnalee]

Religious freedom allows us to believe in whatever God(s) or flavors thereof we like. Where the line is drawn is where we try to impose our beliefs on another. Postulating that there is a God, "(S)He made us as we are, & any complaints should be directed to the manufacturer." - Lenny Bruce

[ReineD]

I wonder if Helen thinks the Earth is 6,000 years old.

You can't argue with people like that. Thankfully, there aren't too many of them.

I hope.

[AmberDay]

I have to say this Amber. I have read a couple of your posts and I have to say as far as I am concerned you are a superstar in the TG community. I can tell that you carry yourself with great poise. I need to tell you that you are a super benefit to the TG community. Thank you! Keep it up Girl.

Thank you! Thank everybody! It is extremely draining being on the frontlines of transgender equality <equality for everybody actually>. But you are right, I am in the front and not only do I have the responsibility, but WE ALL have the responsibility to stand up and speak out when injustice is taking place. I have decided to write an anonymous email to our Union President and our Director and tell them about all the harassing comments that I hear, and about things that I have witnessed dealing with GBLT on our buses. I won't give out any names or dates or bus numbers, but will describe several instances that I have witnessed or heard drivers bragging about. I will inform them about concerns with my personal safety since I am afraid of what my coworkers will do when I start the transitioning process. I fear that it may come back to me though since I am vocal and challenge what people say; they would know it was from me. I fear for my safety. Unions aren't all that friendly towards members that rat. I am sick to my stomach as I keep editing my 'report'. I may try to mislead them by saying I am female to male to throw off their scent. I know what is right, but it still isn't easy. I don't know if anything will come of it, and maybe that there will be a memo put out about dealing with transgender with equality or sensitivity training. I am doing this for all who fall in the transgender spectrum. I will not stand by and do nothing.

Wish me luck! <says prayer, grabs rifle, climbs over trench and towards the battle>

Amber

[Chickhe]

You might do better my not being anonymous and making a complaint about her hostility in general towards passengers without highlighting the TG part. That way you can just say you feel like she's not creating a safe workplace. it will be her own big mouth that does her in and she will get the message.

[Pythos]

"I hope Helen doesn't get in trouble; and I hope that transgender doesn't think all bus drivers are like that. I hope Helen comes around. We are union though, so Helen doesn't have too much to worry about."

I'm sorrry but NO. I think this individual SHOULD lose their job, and if that happened to me, she would hear no end of it. She is driving a bus....which until not too long ago was a job ONLY males did. She was NOT within her rights, she crossed the line pure and simple, and I hope the individual she accosted will do what is right and complain about that service.

My ex looked male and had a voice that did at times sound disguised, but it was her natural voice. If this so and so did this to her, she likely would have kicked her in the face with the rage she could have.

This was in no way cool at all.

[Pythos]

So your union is so stupid that if you saw a fellow union member taking dangerous risks, or being under the influence, or stealing or what not, and you rightly reported them, they would fire you? THAT is one union that needs to be disbanded and destroyed. That union fails.

[GaleWarning]

The amount of venom in these posts is truly astounding.

I still cannot decide which I find more disgusting .... Helen's attitude towards us, or yours towards her.

[JaytoJillian]

UNION OR NOT, SHE REALLY COULD GET HER A$$ IN A WHOLE LOT OF TROUBLE NOT TO MENTION THE COMPANY GETTING SLAPPED WITH A MONUMENTAL LAWSUIT!!! TALK ABOUT CLOSED MINDED AND BIGOTED, SHE GETS THE "BLUE RIBBON"!!!!!!!

Molly

Amen, she is putting your job at risk. imagine the transit authority having to pay a huge lawsuit--The money will have to come from somewhere---layoffs, reduced hours, reduced services, you get the point---Had that been me. I would have gotten her name and driver number AND asked witnesses for contact information, and it would be on like the thrilla in Manilla!

[STACY B]

Thank you! Thank everybody! It is extremely draining being on the frontlines of transgender equality <equality for everybody actually>. But you are right, I am in the front and not only do I have the responsibility, but WE ALL have the responsibility to stand up and speak out when injustice is taking place. I have decided to write an anonymous email to our Union President and our Director and tell them about all the harassing comments that I hear, and about things that I have witnessed dealing with GBLT on our buses. I won't give out any names or dates or bus numbers, but will describe several instances that I have witnessed or heard drivers bragging about. I will inform them about concerns with my personal safety since I am afraid of what my coworkers will do when I start the transitioning process. I fear that it may come back to me though since I am vocal and challenge what people say; they would know it was from me. I fear for my safety. Unions aren't all that friendly towards members that rat. I am sick to my stomach as I keep editing my 'report'. I may try to mislead them by saying I am female to male to throw off their scent. I know what is right, but it still isn't easy. I don't know if anything will come of it, and maybe that there will be a memo put out about dealing with transgender with equality or sensitivity training. I am doing this for all who fall in the transgender spectrum. I will not stand by and do nothing.

Wish me luck! <says prayer, grabs rifle, climbs over trench and towards the battle>

Amber




Go Get Um Kidd ,,,, Don't need them Goofballz out in the world ,,, Let them stay at the house with the rest of the Freaks that think this is 1950 ,,, Throw me them Keys to the Majic Bus ,,,,,,, LOL,,,,,,, Bet she will Rethink it when that Gut starts toughing that Back Bone ,,,,, Another one Bits the Dust !!! I can hear it now ,,But,,,,But,,,,But,,, Spit it out big britchess ,,,, Amazing how folks thought process will change bout time the OL BOSS MAN drops the hammer on ya ?

[whowhatwhen]

The amount of venom in these posts is truly astounding.

I still cannot decide which I find more disgusting .... Helen's attitude towards us, or yours towards her.

Considering toxic attitudes like her's contribute to the LGBT suicide rate we're allowed to mock and trash her on an internet forum.
She also clearly is not suited for working with the public, how many tolerant and progressive people would almost kill for her job?

Sorry, but a public bus is not a place for Bible study and maybe some action by her employer will remind her to zip it and keep it at home.

To clarify:
She's a big stinky poo-poo head who washes her hair with poo, eats poo, and beats homeless people with recently orphaned children.
Furthermore, when she gets home from work she forces her slave children to continue making cheap clothing in her basement sweatshop.
And finally, if those weren't bad enough, she likely framed O.J Simpson and deprived us of future Naked Gun movies.

So not only is she a horrible, disgusting, waste of space bigot, she took away our funnies.

[linda allen]

I don’t know of any religious beliefs that tell you it's OK to put down and belittle others. I hate it when people use religion to justify their own hypocritical actions.

I'm not going to mention specific names, but there are religions where the believers believe they should kill people who don't believe as they do. This has been going on since before the beginning of recorded history and continues to this day.


I'm union and not allowed to report on another union member regardless of what is going on. The union would take away my membership and I MUST be in the union to drive...... so I would get fired.

That statement disturbs me and it's one of the reasons unions are poorly thought of by many people. It's a little like the ghetto code against "snitches". If you observed a fellow union member stealing would you report it? How about some other crime?


You might do better my not being anonymous and making a complaint about her hostility in general towards passengers without highlighting the TG part. That way you can just say you feel like she's not creating a safe workplace. it will be her own big mouth that does her in and she will get the message.

Amber did not witness this event, she just heard about it from Helen. Unles Amber has actually observed Helen being hostile to a passenger, she is not in a position to make a specific complaint against her. Having worked in a union shop, I can assure you that the union will defend a member accused of a wrong doing regardless of the merit of the defense. That's just how they are.

[~Joanne~]

I'm union and not allowed to report on another union member regardless of what is going on. The union would take away my membership and I MUST be in the union to drive...... so I would get fired.

Union or not I have never heard of someone getting fired for doing the right thing or protecting their company's interest. I have worked union before myself and will never work union again. 9 out of 10 times the shop Stewart is riding in the back pocket of the company and has no interest with protecting the membership, nor does the higher ups in the union.

State law trumps the union every day of the week. I know because I used the law over the union almost on a daily basis in the hostile work place I worked in.

As you stated above, You plan on writing an anonymous e-mail to the company, which I commend you for, amongst being a strong member of the CD/TG community, but you have to place your safety and job security first. It's really hard to find a job out here right now.

Since you are not giving your name or such, why not write the company as the girl that got treated badly by helen and make it work on that level and see what happens. I am sure there is someone who would do it from the site if you pm'd them the details as to protect yourself.

I would like to see this helen get a taste of the real world rather than continue to believe that her religion is the only and right way, or her "card" to push people around or continue to be a bigot. She needs a wake up call either which way.


Public service is a bitch, isn't it? ;)

That's the mild way of putting it lol


Amber did not witness this event, she just heard about it from Helen. Unles Amber has actually observed Helen being hostile to a passenger, she is not in a position to make a specific complaint against her. Having worked in a union shop, I can assure you that the union will defend a member accused of a wrong doing regardless of the merit of the defense. That's just how they are.

You girls must have great unions where you live because the unions here are nothing more than a joke.

She doesn't need to have been there, helen confessed to the crime the same as a bank robber bragging about robbing a bank. Was it out of guilt? or did she just want to verify her position that she is better than everyone else?

Unions aren't god almighty, they still have to fall within state law and discrimination & harassment is not taken lightly when out and about, CD or not, in the real world and interacting with the public.

[Rachel Morley]

I couldn't quite believe what I was reading until I read the sentence: "God made them men and they should act like it." ..... then that explained everything. That whole religious bigotry crap again. (yawn, yawn, yawn) :straightface:

[StarrOfDelite]

Union or not I have never heard of someone getting fired for doing the right thing or protecting their company's interest. I have worked union before myself and will never work union again. 9 out of 10 times the shop Stewart is riding in the back pocket of the company and has no interest with protecting the membership, nor does the higher ups in the union.

State law trumps the union every day of the week. I know because I used the law over the union almost on a daily basis in the hostile work place I worked in.

As you stated above, You plan on writing an anonymous e-mail to the company, which I commend you for, amongst being a strong member of the CD/TG community, but you have to place your safety and job security first. It's really hard to find a job out here right now.

Since you are not giving your name or such, why not write the company as the girl that got treated badly by helen and make it work on that level and see what happens. I am sure there is someone who would do it from the site if you pm'd them the details as to protect yourself.

I would like to see this helen get a taste of the real world rather than continue to believe that her religion is the only and right way, or her "card" to push people around or continue to be a bigot. She needs a wake up call either which way.



That's the mild way of putting it lol



You girls must have great unions where you live because the unions here are nothing more than a joke.

She doesn't need to have been there, helen confessed to the crime the same as a bank robber bragging about robbing a bank. Was it out of guilt? or did she just want to verify her position that she is better than everyone else?

Unions aren't god almighty, they still have to fall within state law and discrimination & harassment is not taken lightly when out and about, CD or not, in the real world and interacting with the public.

Good, bad or indifferent, some people feel obliged to make anti-union comments based on something in their own life. Extrapolating personal experience to a broader situation seems to be a fulfilling way to cope with whatever issues an individual has with organized labor.

[RADER]

You must remember, a Bus driver is much like the captain of a ship, or airplane, IF the driver
feels unsafe for any reason, they can refuse to transport a passenger. The airlines do it quite
often, if a person is drunk, the captain says that the person does not fly. So a driver can refuse
to cray a person for safety reasons.
That said, I think "Helen" needs a good old fashion spanking. Refusing a person for the reason she
did is against the law, and the bus company and her could be labile for her actions. There is a fine line
between safety and bigotry, And She crossed it.
Rader

[giuseppina]

Thank you! Thank everybody! It is extremely draining being on the frontlines of transgender equality <equality for everybody actually>. But you are right, I am in the front and not only do I have the responsibility, but WE ALL have the responsibility to stand up and speak out when injustice is taking place. I have decided to write an anonymous email to our Union President and our Director and tell them about all the harassing comments that I hear, and about things that I have witnessed dealing with GBLT on our buses....

Hello Amber

I admire you for speaking out, but if you want to remain anonymous, email is the wrong choice, as it is easily traceable. You are far more likely to retain anonymity by using postal mail and wearing gloves when handling the paper or envelope so you don't leave fingerprints. Handwriting is another way to give away your anonymity.

Unfortuneately, whistleblowers are very poorly regarded as a rule. I don't see your situation as an exception. Be prepared to leave employment because of abusive treatment, both from management and your co-workers. One of the easiest ways of dealing with these issues is accusing the complainant of prevaricating and firing them. It doesn't solve the real problem, but it does silence the complainant. One of the ways you can collect evidence is a hidden mp3 player with a microphone, but this is dangerous to your safety.

Good luck in your endeavors.

[GaleWarning]

Considering toxic attitudes like her's contribute to the LGBT suicide rate we're allowed to mock and trash her on an internet forum.
She also clearly is not suited for working with the public, how many tolerant and progressive people would almost kill for her job?

Sorry, but a public bus is not a place for Bible study and maybe some action by her employer will remind her to zip it and keep it at home.

To clarify:
She's a big stinky poo-poo head who washes her hair with poo, eats poo, and beats homeless people with recently orphaned children.
Furthermore, when she gets home from work she forces her slave children to continue making cheap clothing in her basement sweatshop.
And finally, if those weren't bad enough, she likely framed O.J Simpson and deprived us of future Naked Gun movies.

So not only is she a horrible, disgusting, waste of space bigot, she took away our funnies.

Wonderful suppositions, whowhatwhen! Even the OP is not exactly sure of anything that took place, or what motivated Helen to do what she supposedly did.

Here's a short extract from the OP ...

The passenger puts her fare in and asks for a transfer in a modified fem voice. Helen went off on the passenger, admonishing her for trying to 'deceive' her. <granted can't remember word for word what Helen said, but this is the just of it:> "You are a man, and while you are allowed to dress like you want, don't get on my bus and try to pretend you are a woman by trying to disguise you voice. You better talk like a man next time or you won't ride my bus. I don't appreciate being lied to you and people trying to deceive me by pretending to be something their not!" The passenger was embarrassed and sat down.


Perhaps it was the deception that upset Helen ... which, given we know nothing about her circumstances, allows me to indulge in a little "what if?" scenario.

What if Helen's husband is a member of this forum and has just laid down the usual ultimatum to his gob-smacked wife ... this is who I am and you had better get used to it. (Fill in the rest of the selfish rubbish that is usually written by such individuals to try to justify why their wives should be accommodating, and they not so.)

Or what if Helen is herself struggling with belonging to one of those conservative churches who insist that the women-folk have to be subservient and have to wear skirts instead of pants. (These churches and attitudes DO exist!). What if her mind is in turmoil over the competing compulsions of the work=place dress code versus the church's admonishions?

We just don't know, whowhatwhen. But of this you can be sure ... if her head is not in a good space and her "familiar friend", the OP, goes ahead and lays a complaint and she loses her job because he shafted her, based on suppositions rather than facts, SHE may end up being a suicide statistic!

:eek:

[~Joanne~]

Good, bad or indifferent, some people feel obliged to make anti-union comments based on something in their own life. Extrapolating personal experience to a broader situation seems to be a fulfilling way to cope with whatever issues an individual has with organized labor.

All I was saying is that the law trumps the union every time. No one gets fired for reporting someone not performing their job as expected or required. The girl on helen's bus was both discriminated against and harassed and the union can not protect helen when it comes to breaking laws. That's exactly what she did. She tried coating it in religion to cover her ass.

Yes I am anti union but I didn't use this post as a way to bash or degrade a union. If the union works FOR you then god bless. The union I had, did not.

[whowhatwhen]

Why should anyone care why she did it?
The OP made an attempt to educate her and it didn't work, people have to want to change.

Also, being pissed at your husband doesn't turn you into such a frothing transphobic bigot.
Moreso when she's using religion to justify that bigotry.

And we do have facts, she discriminated against a transgender passenger/customer in such a horrid way treating her like some kind of monster.
People need to learn that there are consequences to bigotry.

Helen == bigot, that is a fact.

[GaleWarning]

Why should anyone care why she did it?
The OP made an attempt to educate her and it didn't work, people have to want to change.

Also, being pissed at your husband doesn't turn you into such a frothing transphobic bigot.
Moreso when she's using religion to justify that bigotry.

And we do have facts, she discriminated against a transgender passenger/customer in such a horrid way treating her like some kind of monster.
People need to learn that there are consequences to bigotry.

Helen == bigot, that is a fact.

In the face of such logic, I had to laugh.
:lol::lol2:

[Brianna612]

In the face of such logic, I had to laugh.
:lol::lol2:

Clayfish I'm with you. How can we label others, yet expect others not to label us? This just doesn't make sense.

AmberDay I would be careful. You did not witness the event personal. You can point out what you have heard, that you find these discussions offensive, and suggest that these drivers be better educated in respects to the law and company policies. The Person who was discriminated against would have to come forth with a lawsuit. Given the situation this will happen sooner or later if the behavior of these drivers is allowed to continue. The union and company should take action to avoid possible law suits in the future.

[whowhatwhen]

Clayfish I'm with you. How can we label others, yet expect others not to label us? This just doesn't make sense.

You're right.
How dare anyone label someone who literally says something extremely bigoted a bigot?

Jesus.
I'm all for PC but that is just too much, why the hell should her intolerance be tolerated again?

This wasn't just a snide comment, she went out of her way to misgender a transwoman and humiliate her in public.

[GaleWarning]

This wasn't just a snide comment, she went out of her way to misgender a transwoman and humiliate her in public.

You just don't get it, www.

Most of the contributors to this thread (including you) have gone out of your way to call for all sorts of dire retribution, in the face of what Helen IS ALLEGED to have done. Had Helen been present in the flesh, some of you might have lynched her, in good ol' fashioned American Wild West fashion. You seem to me to be just as bigotted and judgemental as Helen appears to have been.

What happened to the notion of "innocent until proven guilty".
Is the OP's telling of the tale completely factual?
Were there any mitigating circumstances?

"Gentle wisdom" was the theme of today's church sermon. Neither Helen, nor any of you lot have displayed it. FACT.

[Pythos]

Clayfish. I normally agree with you, but this person IS a bigot. If a driver were to pull this with a person of another race than them, or their supposed income, or what have you, they would be in BIG trouble. But oh wow, she was a bigot toward an individual that was living as what they would like to.

PC can only go so far. This individual whether or not they actually did this in the bus, still implied they did to the OP. That shows at least a bit of bigotry.

and bigot fits the behavior and is not necessarily name calling.

But this actually takes the thread off track, so I will post no more on this tangent.

[Badtranny]

What happened to the notion of "innocent until proven guilty".
Is the OP's telling of the tale completely factual?
Were there any mitigating circumstances?.


NO NO NO NO

If I were to temper my posts with that criteria, then I would hardly say anything at all. (let me finish please) I obviously have no idea if the the OP's account is true, but then again, I don't even know if the OP is a real person. She could be YOU for all I know. To a certain extent we are all forced to take each other at face value, otherwise there would be no meaningful dialogue at all. The OP described a situation, and whether it actually happened or not isn't really the point. As described, the woman is a bigot plain and simple. I was born a man, but now I am legally a woman yet my chromosomes remain unchanged. According to people like her, God made me a man and that's how I should act if I want to ride her bus. Well according to people like me, I spent a good chunk of my life acting like a man and I've had enough of it. Should I be insulted and refused admittance to "her" righteous bus?

This story illustrates bigotry so cartoonishly that I doubt it actually happened, but the idea that the bible thumper is somehow justified or sympathetic is even more unbelievable.

[whowhatwhen]

This story illustrates bigotry so cartoonishly that I doubt it actually happened, but the idea that the bible thumper is somehow justified or sympathetic is even more unbelievable.

From what I read not only do I not doubt this happened, but I don't doubt that it happens incredibly often but just goes unreported.
A quick look at the news suggests that a great deal have literally no problem forcing everyone to conform to their religious beliefs and are quite vocal about it.

The real tragedy is that nothing will happen to Helen, she'll continue to berate and humiliate transpeople, vote against their rights, and support organizations that do them harm.
I honestly admire the OP in trying to educate her and hope she succeeds but there must be some consequence to Helen's actions.

Do some religious people feel so persecuted that they believe someone would come to a place as obscure as a crossdressing forum, concoct a story about someone who isn't themselves being discriminated against, and post it just to get a one-up on those "uppity Christians"?
Why? What would the OP gain from this?

[~Joanne~]

You just don't get it, www.

Most of the contributors to this thread (including you) have gone out of your way to call for all sorts of dire retribution, in the face of what Helen IS ALLEGED to have done. Had Helen been present in the flesh, some of you might have lynched her, in good ol' fashioned American Wild West fashion. You seem to me to be just as bigotted and judgemental as Helen appears to have been.


"Gentle wisdom" was the theme of today's church sermon. Neither Helen, nor any of you lot have displayed it. FACT.

Alleged? She TOLD amber what she had done. That's called a confession in every other crime in America and would be in this case. There is a difference between standing up for the rights of another and being bigoted and judgmental. She committed a crime. It is illegal in all 50 states to discriminate. Then she tried to hide behind religion to make it sound justified or right?

I am not saying this person should be lynched, but she should certainly lose her job or go into a diversity class. If she does this while driving a bus, I can imagine the crap she does in her every day life.



What happened to the notion of "innocent until proven guilty".


Confessions kind of take this out of the equation. Amber wasn't there, Helen told her what she did. besides, have you ever gone to court over a ticket of any sort? In their eyes it's the other way around. They prove it daily.



Is the OP's telling of the tale completely factual?


I don't see why she wouldn't be. Let's be honest, this sort of crap happens each and everyday a 1000 times over. CD or not. There's no reason not to doubt the OP and she has never given anyone a reason to.



Were there any mitigating circumstances?


Yes, the Girl got on the wrong bus. She expected a ride to her destination but got hit by a bible thumper who happens to be a bigot too.

[ReineD]

The real tragedy is that nothing will happen to Helen, she'll continue to berate and humiliate transpeople,

This is what I don't get: I know she's in a union and many people in this thread have suggested that because of this, she will not be taken to task for having behaved in a bigoted manner (assuming the incident happened as reported). But surely even union members should not be given carte blanche to be bigoted? I understand a bus driver taking steps to eject passengers whose behaviors threaten the safety of other passengers (if they are loud, obnoxious, violent, drunk, or high for example), but surely not just on the basis of their appearance? Would this bus driver be allowed to eject a goth if she didn't like black clothes, black finger nails, and spiked jewelry? Or what if she didn't like the tattoos that someone was wearing?

[Denise Somers]

AmberDay, Sounds like you just saw a side of your friend you wished you had not. Wish you strength and determination dealing with it. I'm not sure it's more intolerance based on a religious belief she injects into the workplace or the knowledge (which you helped solidify when you said "we're union so I don't think we have much to worry about" that such behavior can go on because the union will back her up. There is a reason union membership is way down over the decades, why Ohio has seen all but one of its cities (Columbus) consistently lose population and jobs, and why our education system falls behind more nations when it comes to preparing our youth to compete in the global marketplace. Unions once did great work and occasionally still do actually fighting for good employees but far too often I see unions fighting for bad employees like what they are now asked to do for Helen. The question is how many people has she already done this to?? This is just the first one you know about and only because she mentioned it. She should get into trouble because she earned it.I'd be interested to see of Jorja (also of Ohio) will do what she suggested and ride this bus when she is in that city. You can provide us the city and route number and I'm sure this situation will resolve itself. I think the cause, the right to be treated humanely by anyone in a public place and especially by those who salaries are paid by the Ohio taxpayer, is supremely more important than this individual friendship. You can write the letter or you can provide the information to us and let "the heels fall where they may".
Denise Somers

[whowhatwhen]

This is what I don't get: I know she's in a union and many people in this thread have suggested that because of this, she will not be taken to task for having behaved in a bigoted manner (assuming the incident happened as reported). But surely even union members should not be given carte blanche to be bigoted? I understand a bus driver taking steps to eject passengers whose behaviors threaten the safety of other passengers (if they are loud, obnoxious, violent, drunk, or high for example), but surely not just on the basis of their appearance? Would this bus driver be allowed to eject a goth if she didn't like black clothes, black finger nails, and spiked jewelry? Or what if she didn't like the tattoos that someone was wearing?

The circumstances are probably just too awkward to do anything.
Unless the woman herself makes a complaint about the driver it's all hearsay, we may all know what she did (and she even admitted it, proudly) but we cannot prove it.

The only good thing is that people like her can't keep their traps shut and one day someone will speak up against her and she'll get the appropriate punishment.

Not to anyone specific:
Let's not turn this into a union debate, that'll only end up as a locked thread.

[linda allen]

Union or not I have never heard of someone getting fired for doing the right thing or protecting their company's interest. I have worked union before myself and will never work union again. 9 out of 10 times the shop Stewart is riding in the back pocket of the company and has no interest with protecting the membership, nor does the higher ups in the union.

If you've never been in a labor union, I don't understand how or why you would make that statement. I saw hundreds of situations including one where a worker punched a supervisor in the face in front of me and several other people. He kept his job with no penalties.


You girls must have great unions where you live because the unions here are nothing more than a joke.

Two of my co-workers filed a grievance against a supervisor for following them (we worked in the field) to see if they were actually on the job where they were supposed to be. The supervisor was told not to do that anymore, just take the worker's word for where they were and what they were doing.

The standard joke was that you couldn't be fired, you had yo quit or fire yourself.

Oh - And it was the union, not the agency who determined who got promoted. "Senior qualified" got the promotion. You might have a degree or specialized training but if another applicant had been there longer, he got the job, not you.

[linda allen]

............... And we do have facts, she discriminated against a transgender passenger/customer in such a horrid way treating her like some kind of monster.
People need to learn that there are consequences to bigotry.

Helen == bigot, that is a fact.

We do not have "facts", we have hearsay, nothing more. There is no case here.

If the passenger wanted to persue the matter, there would be a case if this all happened the way it was presented to us.

[whowhatwhen]

We have a confession, and one Helen was quite proud of.
The only way we don't have facts is if Helen or the OP was lying.

[Tina B.]

I was in a very strong union for 22 years, I was a shop Stewart for a lot of that time. And you can tell "Helen" no union, or anyone else will be able to help her if someone goes to the DA and complains about their civil rights being trampled on. If I'm not mistaken, Washington has some very good laws protecting the rights of gays and trans people. If I where out, and she pulled that on me, I would want to take her down. And I'm sure there will be a sister someday that will if she keeps that up. I'd find a better class of friends, I don't care about her religious beliefs she works for the city goverment, and goverments have to take those laws very seriously, they can be sued for big bucks.
Tina B.

[Veronica27]

The busdriver is entitled to her opinion. She is even entitled to have her own religious reasons for her opinion. What she isn't entitled to do is harrass individuals or attempt to impose her beliefs on them. There is a multitude of reasons for this ranging from the company's own rules, to the law and to the unwritten rules of common decency.

Unfortunately, in several of the replies, I have detected a similar lack of respect as that shown by the busdriver, toward those who are "religious". Modern society has created more disparaging stereotypes of the religious than the crossdressing community has ever had to endure. I do not personally belong to any Church, and consider myself to be more "spiritual" than religious. However, from my experience, most religious folks are good people, who do more to help others than many other groups in society. Their viewpoints should be respected, without any snide remarks.

Veronica

[becky77]

You just don't get it, www.

Most of the contributors to this thread (including you) have gone out of your way to call for all sorts of dire retribution, in the face of what Helen IS ALLEGED to have done. Had Helen been present in the flesh, some of you might have lynched her, in good ol' fashioned American Wild West fashion. You seem to me to be just as bigotted and judgemental as Helen appears to have been.

What happened to the notion of "innocent until proven guilty".
Is the OP's telling of the tale completely factual?
Were there any mitigating circumstances?

"Gentle wisdom" was the theme of today's church sermon. Neither Helen, nor any of you lot have displayed it. FACT.

I find this a very strange remark. First off the entire discussion has to be based on assuming the story is correct. If that is the case then Helen should really be given some kind of ticking off as her behavior is in very poor taste regardless of reasons.
If we assume the story is correct then most peoples responses are just good old fashioned venting, as they feel it's personal (they could have been treated like that), to say she would be lynched is just silly, you appear to be targeting everyone on here, I don't know if you are doing that to cause friction or if you are a little self righteous?

If the story is true, how anyone can justify Helen's actions is beyond me and those persons defending her should really take a look at themselves.

I kind of hoped as one of us Clayfish you would be on our side, you look to be going out of your way to disprove the OP and look for reasons to defend the indefensible Helen. If it's all a lie then none of it matters anyway. But as Melissa said "To a certain extent we are all forced to take each other at face value, otherwise there would be no meaningful dialogue at all."

The only person that can do anything in regard to Helen is the person she mistreated on the bus, or someone else on the bus that took offense. It seems unfair to let it go but if the victim is too embarrassed to come forward or has other reasons not to, then at the end of the day none of us really know what happened.

[AmberDay]

Helen wasn't just having a 'bad' day. I knew she didn't care for the GBLT community because she is one of the many drivers in the board room that makes fun of them. It is one thing to be acting and making fun of the community in a closed setting, but to do bring it in public and in the face of transgender passenger goes way over the line. I considered a friend and was trying to work with her in accepting and tolerating the community. Obviously I didn't make any headway. I have been tying for years to get my brother to accept me, but that will never happen.

After rereading my original post, I admit that I shouldn't have made the "won't get in trouble for being in a union" comment. It had detracted from the thread and had nothing to do with the incident; just my anger towards my union. I apologize for that part.



This story illustrates bigotry so cartoonishly that I doubt it actually happened,

I wasn't even going to go here, but in regards to being true, WHY WOULD I MAKE THIS UP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Granted you don't know me personally, but you can tell by my 180+ posts since 2004 that I don't go trolling on here. Of course, you weren't there so you do have to take my word for it. I recall a post several months ago about a member being discriminated at a Starbucks and another at a T-mobile store, etc. I didn't see anybody wondering if that was true or doubting it happened.

[Pythos]

ReineD,

Would this bus driver be allowed to eject a goth if she didn't like black clothes, black finger nails, and spiked jewelry? Or what if she didn't like the tattoos that someone was wearing?

She would know better than to mess with us dark ones, cause the icy stare of death would penetrate her very soul and tear it to shreds.....or we likely would say "eff you" and wait for the next bus. LOL.

[~Joanne~]

If you've never been in a labor union, I don't understand how or why you would make that statement. I saw hundreds of situations including one where a worker punched a supervisor in the face in front of me and several other people. He kept his job with no penalties.

I have been in a labor union. I understand that not all shop stewards or unions in general are bad and they do a good job, but the one I was in did not. They were horrible and the shop Stewart always sided with the company which he should not have. The company went as far as to chose who could or could not run for stewart which the union backed. it was a complete and utter joke.

As for the person punching the supervisor, he should have been charged with assault to the full extent of the law. The union would not have been able to save anything once the law was involved and the whole purpose of my original post. The law trumps the union...that's how it is. They wish it wasn't but it is. It was the law that saved my job while working for this company (a really long story) not the union.




Two of my co-workers filed a grievance against a supervisor for following them (we worked in the field) to see if they were actually on the job where they were supposed to be. The supervisor was told not to do that anymore, just take the worker's word for where they were and what they were doing.

The standard joke was that you couldn't be fired, you had yo quit or fire yourself.

That's the union working well for the lazy people unless they were doing their jobs and just didn't like being followed constantly. most of the time though the union does save the jobs of the laziest people.





Oh - And it was the union, not the agency who determined who got promoted. "Senior qualified" got the promotion. You might have a degree or specialized training but if another applicant had been there longer, he got the job, not you.

I don't see how that works unless it's stated in the contract that the union controls such promotions. Is it fair? certainly not but that will only change when the contract comes back around and the members ask for it to be changed. I don't think most members have ever read their contract with the union or know they have the power to make the changes they seek.

Most where I worked did not. I knew it from front page to back and the deal they made on our behalf was all aimed to helping the company not the membership. Looking back, I think we were represented by the wrong union to begin with as they were a truckers union not the UAw and we did parts for one of the big 3.

[GaleWarning]

I kind of hoped as one of us Clayfish you would be on our side, you look to be going out of your way to disprove the OP and look for reasons to defend the indefensible Helen. If it's all a lie then none of it matters anyway. But as Melissa said "To a certain extent we are all forced to take each other at face value, otherwise there would be no meaningful dialogue at all."

The only person that can do anything in regard to Helen is the person she mistreated on the bus, or someone else on the bus that took offense. It seems unfair to let it go but if the victim is too embarrassed to come forward or has other reasons not to, then at the end of the day none of us really know what happened.

Let's make one thing clear: I AM "one of us".

If you read my contributions to this thread from the beginning, who will see that I make no attempt to defend Helen. I have merely been at pains to point out that the vast majority of contributions to this thread have been made by people whose bigotry is at least equal to Helen's. I will not join the mob and lynch her without a fair hearing.

Clearly, the issue for Helen is the apparent deception displayed by our sister. Why did Helen get so upset? As a teacher, I am perhaps more conscious than most of people's feelings and how they affect their behaviour.

Becky, have you ever stood and watched a mob get out of hand? I have, and it is a very frightening experience. Normally sane people lose all sense of rationality and behave worse than mindless wild dogs at a kill.

My male persona is ever mindful of the following stanza from the poem "IF" by Rudyard Kipling:

"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
---you'll be a Man, my son!"

We have not heard Helen's version of events.
How reliable a witness is the OP? Not sure, she cannot remember the exact words Helen spoke to her.
Until I can hear the evidence on both sides, I will not condemn Helen.

[Badtranny]

I wasn't even going to go here, but in regards to being true, WHY WOULD I MAKE THIS UP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! .

Whoa, settle down. Whether or not I believe it actually happened is totally inconsequential to this discussion. I have no reason to doubt you so like I said, I am taking your account at face value. Don't take it personally that I believe very little about what I read on this forum. I actually know a person who has had an alternate life online for better than 10 years. All you have to do is meet somebody once that turns out to be a completely different person than you thought you were "friends" with and you too will be just like me.

Why would you make it up? I have no idea. It doesn't really matter though, the discussion is about the situation, not the actual people.

I am NOT saying you are making it up, I'm only saying I don't care one way or the other.

[becky77]

I have teacher family and police friends, I understand how you HAVE to view things differently and can't afford to pick sides, I get that. No I have never seen a mob, though I was close to the London riots, does that count? :P

My main problem with this thread like several others is that I feel we are a community and all too often there is always someone claiming that other posters are hypocrites or shouldn't say this or that. At times I am afraid to post for fear of being shot down for my opinion. I don't want to offend anyone but I do want to contribute, we can't all agree thats not possible but must we rile each other up?
"Gentle wisdom" was the theme of today's church sermon. Neither Helen, nor any of you lot have displayed it. FACT.
Your probably a nice person but statements like that are patronising, and unfriendly. Come on we are all in this together, if we can't stick together what hope is there?

Ok so Helen is a common foe we can all gang up on and beat upon for our injustices, it won't go any further than that, no one is actually going to hunt down Helen, we all know Helen isn't even her real name.

And if everything about Helen was true, I certainly wouldn't want to fall out with any of you over her.

[linda allen]

....... I wasn't even going to go here, but in regards to being true, WHY WOULD I MAKE THIS UP?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Granted you don't know me personally, but you can tell by my 180+ posts since 2004 that I don't go trolling on here. Of course, you weren't there so you do have to take my word for it. I recall a post several months ago about a member being discriminated at a Starbucks and another at a T-mobile store, etc. I didn't see anybody wondering if that was true or doubting it happened.
Personally, I have no doubt that you were relating an actual experience. There are many people we must deal with in our jobs or for other reasons who we don't agree with on one subject or another. It's the reality of living in society.

I worked for many years with a partner (RIP) who was about the most predudiced person I had ever heard or met. No matter what a person's heritage, he had a slang name for that person and used it. It wasn't my position to "educate" him and it would have been futile. I just did my best to ignore it and set a good example.

[linda allen]

I have been in a labor union. I understand that not all shop stewards or unions in general are bad and they do a good job, but the one I was in did not. They were horrible and the shop Stewart always sided with the company which he should not have. The company went as far as to chose who could or could not run for stewart which the union backed. it was a complete and utter joke.

As for the person punching the supervisor, he should have been charged with assault to the full extent of the law. The union would not have been able to save anything once the law was involved and the whole purpose of my original post. The law trumps the union...that's how it is. They wish it wasn't but it is. It was the law that saved my job while working for this company (a really long story) not the union.




That's the union working well for the lazy people unless they were doing their jobs and just didn't like being followed constantly. most of the time though the union does save the jobs of the laziest people.





I don't see how that works unless it's stated in the contract that the union controls such promotions. Is it fair? certainly not but that will only change when the contract comes back around and the members ask for it to be changed. I don't think most members have ever read their contract with the union or know they have the power to make the changes they seek.

Most where I worked did not. I knew it from front page to back and the deal they made on our behalf was all aimed to helping the company not the membership. Looking back, I think we were represented by the wrong union to begin with as they were a truckers union not the UAw and we did parts for one of the big 3.

This thread (and this forum) is not supposed to be about unions so other than saying that my experience differs from yours, I am going to end my discussion of unions. I hope everyone understands.

[Diversity]

No doubt about it, she was totally out of line. People are all different and have various tolerance levels, beliefs, and upbringings. It is what makes the world go 'round, but people such as this are really not appreciated and should be brought up short. She may never change, but the world would be a better place without such people, in my opinion.
Spiritually, perhaps this is the 'lesson' (tolerance and kindness to others) she needs to learn to advance to the next plane..... If it is, I hope she learns it in this life.
Di