Middel Road?

[Anne Elizabeth]

I wonder how many that at some point stated that they were living the middle road and later transitioned? Are we just delaying the inevitable by making this statement? I also realize that everybody is different and all situations are different, but my theory is, we are just delaying the inevitable, or maybe just bargaining with ourselves and our spouses until sometime in the future we snap and have no choice but to transition?

I would like to hear from about your personal experiences on this.

Thanks
Anne Elizabeth

[elizabethamy]

I definitely want to know more about this too!

[suzy1]

I hope I have understood what you are getting at here Anna. [I am not the sharpest eye liner pencil in the make up box]

I am a transsexual, I feel a very strong female side to me but have not transitioned or ever will do.
The reason is I am perfectly happy and comfortable as I am.
Does that make me just a bit Trans? Is there such a thing?

The middle road is the road I am happy travelling on.

[kimdl93]

I would suggest this is a hypothesis, not a theory. I don't know that there's any reason to believe that middle pathers are delaying the inevitable. I do think that as people become open to the possibilty of living a significant part of their lives en femme, they also become more open to the possibility of living full time as a woman.

In my case, five or six years ago, I was strictly underdressing. When the daughters went on to college, I had more opportunity to dress and took advantage of it. Then I started working from home and before you know it, I was living perhaps 70% of my life as a woman. However, I'm not interested in transitioning at this time because work and extended family relationships would be needlessly complicated. For me, living most of my life as a woman is more than I ever imagined possible. I'm not greedy.

That being said, I don't identify as Transsexual. I identify as Transgendered, leaning towards the TS end of the spectrum. But I don't feel I MUST transition...and to me that's the bright red line.

[Marleena]

Anne, Kaitlyn posted a great thread here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?181319-A-thought-about-when-enough-is-enough... It deals with GID. When or if the GID gets bad enough it will make the decision for you. I have noticed girls here that are most likely TS and manage the GID somehow. It effects people to different degrees of discomfort . Some manage to just ride it out while others like me need HRT to be able to function. Throw in age, health, SO's and family pressures and it can get complicated. JMO as always.

[Jorja]

First, let me say that I knew I was transsexual from day one. I didn't know what it was called until much later on in life. Having transitioned over 20 years ago, I have seen many take the middle of the road approach. That is fine until that damn gender simi truck (lorry for you Brits) comes along in one direction or the other and smashes into you. At that point you will choose one direction or the other.

That being said, it takes a very strong willed person to continue down the middle of the road.

[Inna]

I will bring an educated, scientific, 35+ year experience into this conversation. Oh NO, not mine, I am just but a woman who survived the ailment of transsexuality, but i will bring the words of a Trans Specialist Therapist, a PHD and a phenomenal professional and friend at that.

One of our conversations started on the subject of "transitioning or not", to my surprise she pointed out that out of 35+ years in the field of psychology in TG specialty she had many patients who were diagnosed with Dysphoria yet never transitioned. Then when we started to talk about success, and to best understand success I asked about regrets and happiness, she replied "out of all who decided NOT to transition, because of their family, job, societal stance, out of all that decided Not to transition, NOT A SINGLE ONE became happy, NOT SINGLE ONE had overcome Dysphoria, and I have seen many, many of them frequently as they kept on coping and trying to ease dysporia."

Here it is!!!!! No better individual to state these remarkable words. Painful and true, this to me is reality of the Transsexuality I call it disease until it is disease no more!

[LeaP]

... I have seen many take the middle of the road approach. That is fine until that damn gender simi truck (lorry for you Brits) comes along in one direction or the other and smashes into you. At that point you will choose one direction or the other.

That being said, it takes a very strong willed person to continue down the middle of the road.

Given the driving metaphor, I'm not sure that the middle of the road sounds very safe!

[Andie Elisabeth]

Middle road is good for some time and for the time being I am taking it due to money and school reasons but I am not planning to take this road for more than two years. I don't know how strong in the long term anymore I am. I don't really want wait full two years. But that is my limit.

Yes, I am still bargaining with myself in several languages which sucks.

[KellyJameson]

If the middle of the road is compromise of who you are you may be able to survive the middle of the road but it is difficult to imagine feeling complete (happy,fulfilled,normal,natural,genuine,ect..)

Identity is the self and when you do not live it you than must live estranged from yourself and the experience is anxiety and the depression,hopelessness, ect that is born from this anxiety.

As an adjective this means "No longer close or affectionate to someone; alienated"
To make hostile, unsympathetic, or indifferent; alienate.

If you do not live your identity (who you are) it is very diffucult to like yourself because you are separated from yourself so you do not know yourself and there is nothing than to like.

Each person than decides what they need to do to "live their identity" and life satisfaction will be your guide.

But it must be about identity, not past trauma or the desire as a man to possess female beauty otherwise you risk creating GID by changing your body and than becoming a man trapped in a female body so you go from one distressed state to another.

In my opinion identity leaves its evidence in your relationship to your past in the "now" (how you feel about the life you have lived before the last moment) which for me was experienced as failure (lack of life satisfaction at its core so happiness "acceptance" was superficial) even though I was successful "externalities" based on societies standards as well as its evidence to yourself in relation to others and with your own body independant of others regardless of whether the dysphoria is understood as gender dysphoria.

An example of GID in my opinion would be seeing your body as a tool and yourself as a machine so there is no affection for self and the desire to nurture and protect your body (you) because your body exists independant of you because it is not you (identity) so you have no love for it (self)

With GID in my opinion there does not have to be hate of the body but there is a pattern of separation from the body that is not "true" to identity so is experienced as foreign

You want escape from the dysphoria and this is relentless but only to the degree you are not living your identity (being genuine) so what would appear as the middle of the road for some is the arrival of their destination for others.

The middle of the road is subjective so is different for each person and your relationship to yourself will tell you where you are at in the resolution of your dysphoria.

You can have everything in life but if you are not living identity you are still perpetually unhappy but this unhappiness may only be experienced as a form of never ending restlessness with the occasional spike of extreme dissatisfaction.

Living with unresolved GID is a bit like living like an addict between each fix and it does not surprise me so many with GID turn toward addiction as escape from the dysphoria.

[Andie Elisabeth]

If the middle of the road is compromise of who you are you may be able to survive the middle of the road but it is difficult to imagine feeling complete (happy,fulfilled,normal,natural,genuine,ect..)

Identity is the self and when you do not live it you than must live estranged from yourself and the experience is anxiety and the depression,hopelessness, ect that is born from this anxiety.

As an adjective this means "No longer close or affectionate to someone; alienated"
To make hostile, unsympathetic, or indifferent; alienate.

If you do not live your identity (who you are) it is very diffucult to like yourself because you are separated from yourself so you do not know yourself and there is nothing than to like.

Each person than decides what they need to do to "live their identity" and life satisfaction will be your guide.

But it must be about identity, not past trauma or the desire as a man to possess female beauty otherwise you risk creating GID by changing your body and than becoming a man trapped in a female body so you go from one distressed state to another.

In my opinion identity leaves its evidence in your relationship to your past in the "now" (how you feel about the life you have lived before the last moment) which for me was experienced as failure (lack of life satisfaction at its core so happiness "acceptance" was superficial) even though I was successful "externalities" based on societies standards as well as its evidence to yourself in relation to others and with your own body independant of others regardless of whether the dysphoria is understood as gender dysphoria.

An example of GID in my opinion would be seeing your body as a tool and yourself as a machine so there is no affection for self and the desire to nurture and protect your body (you) because your body exists independant of you because it is not you (identity) so you have no love for it (self)

With GID in my opinion there does not have to be hate of the body but there is a pattern of separation from the body that is not "true" to identity so is experienced as foreign

You want escape from the dysphoria and this is relentless but only to the degree you are not living your identity (being genuine) so what would appear as the middle of the road for some is the arrival of their destination for others.

The middle of the road is subjective so is different for each person and your relationship to yourself will tell you where you are at in the resolution of your dysphoria.

You can have everything in life but if you are not living identity you are still perpetually unhappy but this unhappiness may only be experienced as a form of never ending restlessness with the occasional spike of extreme dissatisfaction.

Living with unresolved GID is a bit like living like an addict between each fix and it does not surprise me so many with GID turn toward addiction as escape from the dysphoria.
Wow, I don't think I can add anything :iagree:

[Barbara Ella]

Are we just bargaining with ourselves?

Isn't every aspect of life a bargaining position. No one ever made a decision on anything without considering pros and cons, no matter how briefly.

So yes, we are. It is a balancing act until that big semi with Jorja behind the wheel hits..... Or the unhappiness outweighs all the other considerations as Inna wrote.

This is not a snapping, but a complicated mental assessment of the position you are in at the moment and the realization that the balance requires action. It may come suddenly, but your mind has been working on it for years and years, carefully considering the balances and consequences. When the time is right, you will make a decision. For some, change comes very early, for others never. The lack of a decision does not mean no thought process is going on. The mind is an active box, and in my case too active at times for its own good.

But in no way is anyone fooling themselves. This situation is well discussed here and weighs heavy on everyone. And this is a clear instance where one size does not fit all.

Barbara

[STACY B]

Hey I am Greedy ,,, I like the middle ,,,Ya get the best of both worlds ,,I understand about the chix that HAVE to transition ,, But for me I like half an half ,,, Go ether way when I want to ,,, My choice ,, So it takes all kinds to make it work . So lets just get on that cruze an see where it takes us !!!

[Traci Elizabeth]

Like Jorga, I knew I was a girl before 5 years old. And even then, I tried to act out my girlhood only to be subjected to much much abuse. I put Military service, wife, daughter, and my career ahead of my desire to live my life openly as the girl I had always been on the inside. I had so little "T" even as a teenager that thank the dear Lord, it had very little affect on my body, and I was thin, below med weight, medium height for a female, small feet, a whole head of hair, very very little facial hair, and no body hair.

When my obligations were at a point that I could start transition, I went from one day dressing male to the NEXT day living full time as the woman I had always been openly 24/7. So there was absolutely NO middle ground for my - thank goodness!

[Inna]

Well if it is confessions, then I am next!

YES, I too have lived a Middle Nightmare for 42 years, however so numb from denial, that it seemed enjoyable at times, especially when getting surrounded with expensive toys. Then came the moment of reckoning and Middle was to become THE END, short story long, I am here to tell the tale, was middle ground an acceptable solution, at that time I thought it was, looking back however, lots of life NOT LIVED, but merely survived.

[STACY B]

Hang on now,,,,I am thinking middle ground is wearing whatever ya want ,,Mixing it up together ,,Not girl all the way ,,,Then boy all the way ,,,, But both all the way ,,,When ever an where ever ya want ,,No hiding ,,, Maybe I got it wrong ? I think the other is CDing ?

[PretzelGirl]

Stacy, I think middle ground gets used a lot here for those that would transition if circumstances would permit, but they don't. The reason is usually family but I suspect there are as many reasons as there are people. So the person in the middle ground gets out when they can, (maybe) subtly alters their appearance, and may take on certain characteristics as if they had transitioned but only things they hope don't get noticed or are easily explainable. And they strike the best deal they can with whoever is involved and they accept and live within that agreement.

The longer I am here, the larger amount of people I want to put in that category. The toughest thing may be looking through each individual's denial. Once you look at what they mean instead of what they say, then more members here slide towards the middle. Figuring that out, for each individual, by far is the biggest barrier. I have swore that if I ever head down that road, that denial won't be my issue (there will probably be plenty of others to replace it). Only time will tell with each of us. No matter how much someone will state they know what the future holds, you just don't. You plan and just see how it turns out.

[MaryAnn40c]

Ok I did have a b/f and did have a great time living with him. I was dressed as a women everyday with him....I was working in the oilpatch making good money and buying lots of clothing....after we wented our own ways I had bills to pay and needed to go back into making real money....ahhh I should have stayed with my dreams and I would be feelling better about myself.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The costs of transition are very high in every way...the benefits are not easily quantifiable, but the benefits are amazingly powerful...kelly's post is about that.... do you want to live an authentic life or not?? pretty strong stuff..

If the idea of transition scares you and you want to explore options, not transitioning and seeing what you can do to mitigate your gender problems is a good strategy... perhaps there are levels of transsexualism, perhaps you have a strong constitution and can gut it out...transition's fail, especially if you are not patient, confident, and realistic about your goals..add to the equation that you can unhit the transition button, but you cant UNDO it...you can't tell all your family friends and collegeagues to give you a do over

if you are uncertain, then aiming and planning for a middle path life(however you define it) makes sense because it will give you vital information about the best way for you to live your life..
if you are unable to transition, then aiming and planning for a middle path may delay the inevitable but also give you a strong foundation for a future transition..

Don't let people advocate one over the other...but listen carefully to what people say are the benefits of their situation, then try to tie it back to your own life

As sue points out, there is lots of denial....and there is lots of dogma too..

and it goes both ways... many transsexuals will deny it...some will accept it but say its too late.. some will say transition or fail....

also people will claim they are ts when they are probably not... its a very attractive point on the spectrum for someone crossdressing to think of themselves as transsexual..

For some, the middle path IS the right place...the ONLY important question for you is if it is right for you..

put another way, its just not a given that many of the folks living what we call a middle path would benefit from transition the way you might (assuming you are a woman)....you have to parse through all this to come to your own conclusions about whats best for you.

[whowhatwhen]

also people will claim they are ts when they are probably not... its a very attractive point on the spectrum for someone crossdressing to think of themselves as transsexual..

This I don't understand, how is someone supposed to know?
Trust your feelings as genuine?

I won't identify as anything currently, but one of my biggest fears is what you mentioned above.
Although I don't see what's gained by saying you're TS if you're not.

[LeaP]

...
Don't let people advocate one over the other...but listen carefully to what people say are the benefits of their situation, then try to tie it back to your own life

...

I agree with your point on advocacy. While I think that encouraging someone down the wrong path would probably dead-end at some point, it's disruptive at a minimum, and destructive at its worst.

I'm unsure of your cost–benefit approach as it relates to transition, though. How many transition after a careful analysis? Rather, it seems that it is those who do not transition that rely on cost-benefit analysis. Which is just another way of saying that they are not driven to transition. And how often is it said that those who do not need to, should not?

It seems that those driven to transition regard cost as a necessary risk, not a decision point. Only a few "benefits" play. The most important one of which is "Does it solve the problem?" - at which point any cost will be borne.

[Traci Elizabeth]

[QUOTE=Kaitlyn Michele;2969030] ...
Don't let people advocate one over the other...but listen carefully to what people say are the benefits of their situation, then try to tie it back to your own life

.../QUOTE]

I agree with your point on advocacy. While I think that encouraging someone down the wrong path would probably dead-end at some point, it's disruptive at a minimum, and destructive at its worst.

I'm unsure of your cost–benefit approach as it relates to transition, though. How many transition after a careful analysis? Rather, it seems that it is those who do not transition that rely on cost-benefit analysis. Which is just another way of saying that they are not driven to transition. And how often is it said that those who do not need to, should not?

It seems that those driven to transition regard cost as a necessary risk, not a decision point. Only a few "benefits" play. The most important one of which is "Does it solve the problem?" - at which point any cost will be borne.


I think Lea hit it out of the ballpark. If money is your determining factor as to if you transition then I "personally believe" that you should NOT transition at this time. When as Lea has stated, that if you "must" transition irrespective of the difficulties of obtaining the necessary funds, then you are ready. That's my opinion and as we all know, you can't even buy a cup of coffee with opinions.

[Frances]

This I don't understand, how is someone supposed to know?
Trust your feelings as genuine?

I won't identify as anything currently, but one of my biggest fears is what you mentioned above.
Although I don't see what's gained by saying you're TS if you're not.

Here's one way to tell: I saw a doctor at sixteen because I wanted him to fix me so that I would feel like a guy. I saw a shrink at 21 to see if he could figure out how to make me feel like a man. I went to a gender clinic at 28 to help me not transition. I finally transitioned at 42 with no money, and loaded six credit cards and credit margins to do it. It's not a choice and it's pretty obvious actually.

Being afraid of the losses is understandable (there will be losses, even some not anticipated), but for some trans, it becomes impossible to hold their breath forever. I did not toy with the idea of transitioning, I fought against it for 40 some years. Some people have the means to do it, and to do it well, but should not have (like that Samatha Kane). Some people do what they can with little money and are some much happier for it (I see some at my support group all the time). It is not a cost/benefit situation, in my opinion.

[whowhatwhen]

I don't doubt for a second being born male was a mistake, but trying to sort out and deal with the stress of seeing if transition is something that has to be done.
Another (confusing) way to put it is "I'm definitely not a man, but does that explicitly mean I'm a woman?"

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I never mentioned the word money in my post..

by costs i mean everything.....wife leaves you, kids won't talk to you, loss of friends, medical risk, people stare at you every day, no one takes you seriously, physical pain of surgery and electrolysis, PLUS it really is quite expensive $$ wise...etcetcetc...

IF you have a embarked on a transition and you have not considered these costs, or what you hope to gain, then you are foolish...and you are risking a failure that could have been prevented.

Altho i mentioned to be careful of advocacy...i am actually advocating one thing...which is doing everything you can to think things through BEFORE you get to the "enough is enough" stage that i mentioned in another thread.

the reason i advocate this is because all too often people spend time with pie in the sky ideas that will never work, they neglect to think through advice from people that have been there, they ignore obvious signs that predict their best course of action or they use avoidance tactics to just bury everything

...and then when the gender dysphoria becomes so bad that "enough is enough", they are not in a position to transition AND give themselves the best chance to succeed at it..

[elizabethamy]

...all too often people spend time with pie in the sky ideas that will never work, they neglect to think through advice from people that have been there, they ignore obvious signs that predict their best course of action or they use avoidance tactics to just bury everything...

So much for the first part of the pre-transition process! I've done all that -- now what? (!)

e.

[ColleenA]

This I don't understand, how is someone supposed to know?
Trust your feelings as genuine?

I won't identify as anything currently, but one of my biggest fears is what you mentioned above.
Although I don't see what's gained by saying you're TS if you're not.

A few years back, I found a blog where someone was recording the process of their transition. For more than half a year, they made monthly entries about how HRT was affecting their body, etc. This was followed by a period of silence of about 5 months. Then they put up a final entry, saying they had stopped the process of transition because they realized it wasn't right for them.

He had come to terms with the fact that he wasn't TS, but was CD. He admitted he was seduced by the thought of being TS because that was cool and edgy. After all, he concluded, who puts on parades celebrating that they're just guys in dresses?


I think the best thing you can do, whowhatwhen, is to (1) give yourself time to sort out Who exactly you are, (2) investigate What, given that, is the right path for you to take, and (3) not stress too much about When to act -- all things in due time.

[Jorja]

So much for the first part of the pre-transition process! I've done all that -- now what? (!)

e.

I am not Kaitlyn but if you feel that transition is right for you then go to your doctor and ask to be put on HRT. You will know soon enough if it is the right step and weather or not you want to proceed.

[Aprilrain]

I think we all try to find ways to cope with this "thing", for some that is the so called middle path. Personally I would have preferred that the CDing just go away, It was a painful reminder of what I longed to be but was not. Sure I'd get to kinda see myself as a girl/woman for a bit but I didn't have the body which is what I longed for. Then too there was all the shame and guilt to contend with afterward (I have purged a ton of clothes) another coping mechanism is going all masculine which I tried. After that little experiment I was pretty damn sure I needed to transition.

[STACY B]

Stacy, I think middle ground gets used a lot here for those that would transition if circumstances would permit, but they don't. The reason is usually family but I suspect there are as many reasons as there are people. So the person in the middle ground gets out when they can, (maybe) subtly alters their appearance, and may take on certain characteristics as if they had transitioned but only things they hope don't get noticed or are easily explainable. And they strike the best deal they can with whoever is involved and they accept and live within that agreement.

The longer I am here, the larger amount of people I want to put in that category. The toughest thing may be looking through each individual's denial. Once you look at what they mean instead of what they say, then more members here slide towards the middle. Figuring that out, for each individual, by far is the biggest barrier. I have swore that if I ever head down that road, that denial won't be my issue (there will probably be plenty of others to replace it). Only time will tell with each of us. No matter how much someone will state they know what the future holds, you just don't. You plan and just see how it turns out.




Tell ya what ,,,Give me your phone number an I will tell you what I think an you write it down for me ,, LOL,,, Cuz I just be an Ol Country Girl an that bee alot of big words Us folk don't say much ,,LOL,,, Naaaaa Just kidding ,,, What you said is true Blue !! How far can ya go with out losing the whole deal ? Maybe just truck along an hope somewhere somehow you can get satisfied ? That would be nice ,,Tell ya what ,,I am a hell of alot happier than I was last year ! An lets just see what else happens this year ? So Progress is being made I know that much .. Thanx for setting me strait !!

[melissaK]

Way up on page 1 of this thread Inna posted a quote from an unnamed psychologist saying if you don't transition, you will never be happy.

So that same night my wife and I were discussing our future as my degree of HRT side effects (breasts and reduced sexual function) has her at her limits. She says she thinks I should transition because otherwise I'll never be happy. We've been together 20 years. She's qualified to give an informed opinion.

So twice in one day the same advice. The same question. How happy do I want to be?

I think I can recast the cost benefit argument of "Middle of the roading" as selling your own happiness. What price do you put on yourself??

Hugs,
'lissa

[morgan pure]

Gee, are we over-thinking this a little? IF there is such a thing as truely transgender disphoria, then isn't the whole pnenomenon one of those with what they call spectrums nowadays? Aren't there some of us who only want to dress up once in a while and are not identified as transgender (tv's) and those of us who contemplate surgery in our teens?

Somewhere in that spectrum there must be room for in-betweens, mustn't there?

I terms of personality development, so many of us grew up in traditional gender role world views, we HAD to absorb male role behavior and attitudes at least a little-AND enjoyed male role perogatives. At the same time, we hung out with girls, observed their behavior and emulated their dress and mannerisms.We really are both. I've known a lot of long-time trannies that could never get the walk down!

[PretzelGirl]

Tell ya what ,,,Give me your phone number an I will tell you what I think an you write it down for me ,, LOL,,, Cuz I just be an Ol Country Girl an that bee alot of big words Us folk don't say much ,,LOL,,, Naaaaa Just kidding ,,, What you said is true Blue !! How far can ya go with out losing the whole deal ? Maybe just truck along an hope somewhere somehow you can get satisfied ? That would be nice ,,Tell ya what ,,I am a hell of alot happier than I was last year ! An lets just see what else happens this year ? So Progress is being made I know that much .. Thanx for setting me strait !!

Stacy, if you are happier than last year, then there is nothing to consider. You are doing it right as happiness is the brass ring, there is nothing more. I don't know if you feel like you are are "middle pather" but what does that matter? What matters is you found your groove and living within it. Enjoy it as it seems to be quite elusive for many.