Transition; what's the up side?

[Anna Lorree]

There has been a fair amount of negative for me to dwell on recently. Yesterday my therapist gave me an opinion after I asked for it, she thinks it very likely that I will transition. She based that on our sessions, the fact that I haven't quit going, haven't quit portraying myself as a woman during the sessions, haven't found any relief from the dysphoria, and that I have given so much thought and DEEP thought to how transitioning will effect my wife, children and family. In the midst of me wallowing in the agony of my fears and dysphoria, she gave me an assignment. She wants me to think about what the positives of staying male would be, and what the positives of transitioning would be. I'm not to consider negatives for either category, just the up side.

So then, having never lived as a woman, I don't particularly know what the up side would be. I have hopes and assumptions, but no real knowledge. Fortunately for me, I know of a place where there are a bunch of people who have already done or are currently doing that which I am contemplating. So ladies, what is the up side to you? What positive aspects has transition given you that you never had before? What has made you say that it was worth it?

Anna

[elizabethamy]

Meanwhile, Anna, should we start a parallel thread, "the upside of staying (more or less) male?"

elizabethamy

[Anna Lorree]

Meanwhile, Anna, should we start a parallel thread, "the upside of staying (more or less) male?"

elizabethamy

I live that currently. As such I can tell you the up side to remaining male, it's easier. Do you have others?

Anna

[arbon]

Upside - No shame about who I am anymore. and can go to sleep every night not feeling like I was living a lie and wanting to die. I am okay with me now.

[kellycan27]

I think that the most important upside ( at least for me) was finally being able to live as my true self, as who I was meant to be from birth. IMO I think that your therapist has assigned you a task that will be hard for you to complete as you yourself mentioned.. You don't have the experience to compare. I think we all start out with those hopes and assumptions, but until we have actually experienced the two sides all we can really do is speculate that which we at least hope are going to upsides. It's hard to pass a test that one hasn't studied for ( through no fault of their own), and remember.. it is a test so no fair asking for the answers.:heehee:

Kel

[elizabethamy]

I can tell you the up side to remaining male, it's easier. Do you have others?
Anna

I don't count b/c I haven't decided. Sitting on the fence is ripping my panties to shreds! Thus, I actually did start a parallel thread, so anyone who wants to talk about the upside of staying male, head on over there.

e.

[Anna Lorree]

I think that the most important upside ( at least for me) was finally being able to live as my true self, as who I was meant to be from birth. IMO I think that your therapist has assigned you a task that will be hard for you to complete as you yourself mentioned.. You don't have the experience to compare. I think we all start out with those hopes and assumptions, but until we have actually experienced the two sides all we can really do is speculate that which we at least hope are going to upsides. It's hard to pass a test that one hasn't studied for ( through no fault of their own), and remember.. it is a test so no fair asking for the answers.:heehee:

Kel

Now Kelly, its an assignment, not a test. Completely OK for me to ask for help, here.

Anna

[kellycan27]

[QUOTE=Anna Lorree;2971490]Now Kelly, its an assignment, not a test. Completely OK for me to ask for help, here.

Anna[/QUOTE

Ok I get it, so I'll just stick with what the upside was for me.

[Barbara Ella]

Cannot in any way comment on any aspect of transitioning, but to help you think this through and come up with answers. phrase your answer more like "these are my hopes for the positives I hope will be there after transitioning." You have given so much thought to it, that you should have expectations, even if no experience as to knowing what they would be. Hope this helps open the mind a bit.

Barbara

[Kaitlyn Michele]

gender dysphoria is the ultimate quality of life destroyer.
getting rid of gender dysphoria(which may require transition) is the goal....

if nothing but transition can make this happen, then so be it...and the upside is simply getting rid of gender dysphoria

i guess you could also say that getting to live the rest of YOUR life as YOURSELF is the other upside..but that's a more nebulous idea and its really just another way to say no more gender dysphoria (which is basically the opposite feeling of living your own life).

[Badtranny]

It's a trick question Anna, there is only ONE upside and Kelly already said it.

The only upside to transition is openly being yourself. There are uncountable downsides but being free of pretension and denial is worth every single one of them.


EDIT: I just read Kaitlyns post and I want to add that her and I are saying the EXACT same thing, or at least it is my intent.

[Bree-asaurus]

I think that the most important upside ( at least for me) was finally being able to live as my true self, as who I was meant to be from birth. IMO I think that your therapist has assigned you a task that will be hard for you to complete as you yourself mentioned.. You don't have the experience to compare. I think we all start out with those hopes and assumptions, but until we have actually experienced the two sides all we can really do is speculate that which we at least hope are going to upsides.

My transition is not over, but this is how I feel too.

I didn't know what the upsides were to transition before I started down this road... I just knew I couldn't take pretending anymore. But just being able to be myself is the upside. It's not a happy feeling or a sad feeling... I guess it's just a lack of internal turmoil and stress. Living my whole life pretending, I thought that unease was just how life was... but not having it... it's just a huge relief.

I guess that's what I would say is the upside... relief. Life still sucks, I still have issues because I'm trans and I still have my other problems in life. But I have relief from that internal struggle that painted my life in greys.

And like BadTranny said... WORTH IT!

[Marleena]

gender dysphoria is the ultimate quality of life destroyer.
getting rid of gender dysphoria(which may require transition) is the goal....

if nothing but transition can make this happen, then so be it...and the upside is simply getting rid of gender dysphoria



Being a new TS on the block Kaitlyn nailed it for me. I think I have it under control now.

[Anna Lorree]

Thanks for all of the responses, so far. Several (but certainly not all) of the people I was hoping to hear from have already chimed in and I greatly appreciate it. For my own part, I HOPE that transition would quiet the voices that constantly make me question who I am and what I am doing with my life. I hope that transition would give me a better sense of self. In short, I hope that transition would give me peace of mind with regard to gender, give me a sense of living a life that feels more real, and allow me to focus on life itself. I just want to match and feel real.

Anna

[kellycan27]

I am siting here on my patio.. watching my 2 year old trying to run over the dog with his powerwheels jeep.. My husband just kissed me on the neck and wispered I love you in my ear, and said that he'd see me after work. I am trying to think of the other upsides to my own transition, but I'll have to put my thinking on hold as it is time to put the little one in his stroller and walk over to his sister's school to pick her up, and it's time to plan what to make for dinner, what I need at the market and whether or not to I need to go to the dry cleaners today or tomorrow... I'll think about it some more later. :)

[LeaP]

... because I got the same assignment a while back. I took it in part as cognitive therapy to challenge my thinking and resulting emotional state. My response was to come up with the respective lists but declare them irrelevant to the problem. As far as the challenge goes, focusing on the male positives was concrete, but actually dismaying. Focusing on the transition positives was too theoretical.

The overriding consideration was whether or not I could continue to live as I was. The answer was literally no, being suicidal at the time, which led directly to HRT (as well as a doubling of my antidepressant dosage, next day, initiated by a call from my therapist to my physician).

[Inna]

Can I say something................? SOMETHING!

Just trying to be LIGHT for a change, you know low calorie kind......

I think that your therapist gave you a splendid task of looking inside. I however would assume that she was after what is in your heart rather then pure logic of transition. Why?
Because I think that logically there is NO logic in transition, it simply takes us away from known universe and into a realm of unknowns and facing our biggest fears.

Intellect tells us to stay away from the fire, yet in this particular instant, we march right into the inferno, and quite happily I suppose.

What ever the upsides and happy places, as Kelly described in the most profound way possible, busy, real, honest, day like any other, yet she her self is HER SELF! A wonderful Mom, Loving Wife, Woman taking care of her family. Mundane? Yeap, but how exquisitely mundane it is!!!!!!!

We go through transition full 360, to come around and find that our life is just the same, but, this time around we are KNOWING of who we are rather then SEEKING HER in the shadows!

[ReineD]

Anna, just for fun, what do you imagine are the more mundane positives of living female? I don't know how else to describe my question, other than tell you what I imagine my positives would be if I were male, keeping in mind that I also have no way of knowing how much of this is reality vs. stereotypical imaginings.

But as an example, I can say that if I were male, I would look forward to having more physical strength so that certain tasks that are difficult for me would no longer be as hard. I'd look forward to being taken seriously in certain situations, rather than be condescended to as a female who doesn't really know what she's talking about. I'd look forward to the easy camaraderie that men share when they are friends, free of all of this constant emotional instrospection. I'd look forward to my sons actually wanting to watch a football game with me and feel this sense of camaraderie with me, rather than think that watching the game at mom's house is second rate somehow. I'd look forward to competing in sports as a male, and have fun playing catch with my son rather than have him be embarrassed because he was playing catch with a girl. I'd look forward to my daughter adoring the ground I walk on, rather than think of me as that "bitchy mom" that so many teenage girls believe their mothers to be. I'd also look forward to having a buff body, stepping out of the shower clean shaven and putting on a tight pair of jeans and a clean shirt, and knowing that some girls' hearts would flip flop if I chose to smile at them (the way mine did when attractive men smiled at me). :D I'd enjoy exercising my sense of power but in such a way that it was not obnoxious.

This is what I believe are some of the more concrete positives about being a man, and in the same vein, what do you think are the positives about being a woman?

Remember, the question isn't what are the positives of having lived as a female, but what do you imagine are the positives, not having lived as one yet?

[Inna]

Anna, just for fun, what do you imagine are the more mundane positives of living female? I don't know how else to describe my question, other than tell you what I imagine my positives would be if I were male, keeping in mind that I also have no way of knowing how much of this is reality vs. stereotypical imaginings.

But as an example, I can say that if I were male, I would look forward to having more physical strength so that certain tasks that are difficult for me would no longer be as hard. I'd look forward to being taken seriously in certain situations, rather than be condescended to as a female who doesn't really know what she's talking about. I'd look forward to the easy camaraderie that men share when they are friends, free of all of this constant emotional instrospection. I'd look forward to my sons actually wanting to watch a football game with me and feel this sense of camaraderie with me, rather than think that watching the game at mom's house is second rate somehow. I'd look forward to competing in sports as a male, and have fun playing catch with my son rather than have him be embarrassed because he was playing catch with a girl. I'd look forward to my daughter adoring the ground I walk on, rather than think of me as that "bitchy mom" that so many teenage girls believe their mothers to be. I'd also look forward to having a buff body, stepping out of the shower clean shaven and putting on a tight pair of jeans and a clean shirt, and knowing that some girls' hearts would flip flop if I chose to smile at them (the way mine did when attractive men smiled at me). :D I'd enjoy exercising my sense of power but in such a way that it was not obnoxious.

This is what I believe are some of the more concrete positives about being a man, and in the same vein, what do you think are the positives about being a woman?

Remember, the question isn't what are the positives of having lived as a female, but what do you imagine are the positives, not having lived as one yet?

OMG, Reine.......you so entirely convinced me..........what have I done :facepalm:!!!!! LOL, but seriously, you got it as well as any TS could hope to get the womans side, however, it isn't about what we will do with it, who can truly know this, but it is about that for once we will be US, exist as US, sleep as US, burp as US, smile as US.....thats all!!!!

Just sayn' .........:straightface:

[Anna Lorree]

Anna, just for fun, what do you imagine are the more mundane positives of living female? I don't know how else to describe my question, other than tell you what I imagine my positives would be if I were male, keeping in mind that I also have no way of knowing how much of this is reality vs. stereotypical imaginings.

But as an example, I can say that if I were male, I would look forward to having more physical strength so that certain tasks that are difficult for me would no longer be as hard. I'd look forward to being taken seriously in certain situations, rather than be condescended to as a female who doesn't really know what she's talking about. I'd look forward to the easy camaraderie that men share when they are friends, free of all of this constant emotional instrospection. I'd look forward to my sons actually wanting to watch a football game with me and feel this sense of camaraderie with me, rather than think that watching the game at mom's house is second rate somehow. I'd look forward to competing in sports as a male, and have fun playing catch with my son rather than have him be embarrassed because he was playing catch with a girl. I'd look forward to my daughter adoring the ground I walk on, rather than think of me as that "bitchy mom" that so many teenage girls believe their mothers to be. I'd also look forward to having a buff body, stepping out of the shower clean shaven and putting on a tight pair of jeans and a clean shirt, and knowing that some girls' hearts would flip flop if I chose to smile at them (the way mine did when attractive men smiled at me). :D I'd enjoy exercising my sense of power but in such a way that it was not obnoxious.

This is what I believe are some of the more concrete positives about being a man, and in the same vein, what do you think are the positives about being a woman?

Remember, the question isn't what are the positives of having lived as a female, but what do you imagine are the positives, not having lived as one yet?

It's funny that you should pose the assignment in such a way. The loss of male power and privilege is something I view as a very real cost, I have no idea why a sane person would give it up, but I am contemplating exactly that.

The positives to being a woman? Being able to touch people during conversation and having it not seem weird. Being able to be emotional when I feel the need or desire to do so. Being able to feel soft and gentle. Feeling as though people will view me less as competition. Being able to gab with women, because I have never really been able to socialize well with men. Drinking wine instead of beer. Softer sweaters, softer curves, and a softer personality. Being able to feel like I belong somewhere, because right now I don't feel like I belong in the tribe of men. And to be able to stop looking in the mirror and wondering, "What if?"

Anna

[ReineD]

It's funny that you should pose the assignment in such a way. The loss of male power and privilege is something I view as a very real cost, I have no idea why a sane person would give it up, but I am contemplating exactly that.

Sorry Anna, I wasn't wanting to frame this in terms of male privileges lost. But since I know of no other way of being than female, the only way I could give you an example of my question was by telling you what I "imagine" are the perks of being a male, not knowing if any of it is idealism. I was more curious about what you believe, in the same vein, are the perks of being a female. This wasn't a comparison about what is better, male or female.

Thanks for answering! :hugs:

[Traci Elizabeth]

Anna,

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by asking us to give you "our" upsides. I am sure your therapist is looking for genuine answers from deep within you. If you supply her with examples given here you are cheating yourself. Even just reading these answers will bias you thoughts, or plant ideas in your head that don't really belong there.

Do yourself a real favor and delete this thread and do some serious soul searching.

If you can't give your own answers as to what are the benefits for "YOU" to be a woman, maybe you ought to backpedal some and regroup.

I would think that most of us have an encyclopedia worth of reasons we love being a woman. I know I do. Those who don't really need to take stock in their lack of reasons.

I am also surprised that gals on here have given you reasons. This is my opinion ONLY but shame on them as they are actually hurting you not helping you.

[LeaP]

I would look forward to having more physical strength so that certain tasks that are difficult for me would no longer be as hard. I'd look forward to being taken seriously in certain situations, rather than be condescended to as a female who doesn't really know what she's talking about. I'd look forward to the easy camaraderie that men share when they are friends, free of all of this constant emotional instrospection. I'd look forward to my sons actually wanting to watch a football game with me and feel this sense of camaraderie with me, rather than think that watching the game at mom's house is second rate somehow. I'd look forward to competing in sports as a male, and have fun playing catch with my son rather than have him be embarrassed because he was playing catch with a girl. I'd look forward to my daughter adoring the ground I walk on, rather than think of me as that "bitchy mom" that so many teenage girls believe their mothers to be. I'd also look forward to having a buff body, stepping out of the shower clean shaven and putting on a tight pair of jeans and a clean shirt, and knowing that some girls' hearts would flip flop if I chose to smile at them (the way mine did when attractive men smiled at me). :D I'd enjoy exercising my sense of power but in such a way that it was not obnoxious.



So, Reine ... first you need a therapist ...

[Frances]

The upside is the end of the white noise, and having the world communicate back the right gender.

It's not being feminine or pretty or whatever. There is nothing particularly special about being feminine to a woman. The opposite of gender dysphoria is not gender euphoria, it's normalcy. The upside of transition is NOT thinking about your gender 24 hours a day. Anyone looking for something else may be disappointed.

[ReineD]

So, Reine ... first you need a therapist ...


I know! lol After typing this I wondered if I shouldn't maybe mosey on over to the FtM section. :D

Maybe I just have a very active imagination. Also, I've been the sole female in my immediate family all my adult life (brother has 4 sons and divorced, I have 3 sons), so I've been immersed in a sea of men for many years. I have grown to be rather fond of them. :)

But, as much as certain aspects of being male appeal to me, I wouldn't trade being myself for all the gold in the world. So it rather has more to do with which gender I and others here feel more aligned with internally, rather than the various perks we can distinguish in either of them.

[Megan Thomas]

For me, the biggest upside was finally relinquishing a lifetime of semi-reclusive behaviour along with discarding a need for deceit and lies to cover up my trans-related activities. With it came wider social interaction and stress levels reduced to a fraction of what they were pre-transition. In a nutshell, I finally accepted me and challenged the world to do the same.

[Anna Lorree]

Anna,

I think you are doing yourself a disservice by asking us to give you "our" upsides. I am sure your therapist is looking for genuine answers from deep within you. If you supply her with examples given here you are cheating yourself. Even just reading these answers will bias you thoughts, or plant ideas in your head that don't really belong there.

Do yourself a real favor and delete this thread and do some serious soul searching.

If you can't give your own answers as to what are the benefits for "YOU" to be a woman, maybe you ought to backpedal some and regroup.

I would think that most of us have an encyclopedia worth of reasons we love being a woman. I know I do. Those who don't really need to take stock in their lack of reasons.

I am also surprised that gals on here have given you reasons. This is my opinion ONLY but shame on them as they are actually hurting you not helping you.

I'm not asking people to make up my mind for me, nor am I asking them in order to come up with the "right" answer. I asked it as a jumping off point for thought on the topic. When I started the thread for all I knew somebody was going to start listing reasons they loved living as a woman that would seem absolutely horrid to me. I understand that this assignment is intended as a thought process for me, and I think those who answered do as well. By sharing their experiences and perceptions they aren't deciding for me whether I will transition or not. Likewise if I make a bad decision for myself, it was mine to make. I would blame nobody here for the costs I may have to pay. I recognize that no GOOD and WISE decision is made in a vacuum, and that I would be robbing myself of the experience of others if I didn't ask. That hardly seems intelligent to me.

I do not regret asking my question, nor will I delete the thread. In the end, it is my decision to make and my price to pay, either way I go. BTW, thank you for your opinion, and at least taking the time to read my posts.

Anna

[Marleena]

Anna,

I would think that most of us have an encyclopedia worth of reasons we love being a woman. I know I do. Those who don't really need to take stock in their lack of reasons.

I am also surprised that gals on here have given you reasons. This is my opinion ONLY but shame on them as they are actually hurting you not helping you.

Ummm... she asked for help and it's not an exam. Way to discredit anybody that replied. Just my opinion.:)

[kellycan27]

I know! lol After typing this I wondered if I shouldn't maybe mosey on over to the FtM section. :D

Maybe I just have a very active imagination. Also, I've been the sole female in my immediate family all my adult life (brother has 4 sons and divorced, I have 3 sons), so I've been immersed in a sea of men for many years. I have grown to be rather fond of them. :)

But, as much as certain aspects of being male appeal to me, I wouldn't trade being myself for all the gold in the world. So it rather has more to do with which gender I and others here feel more aligned with internally, rather than the various perks we can distinguish in either of them.

Now.. doesn't it feel better to come out of the closet? :heehee:

[Kathryn Martin]

While I understand what your therapist is doing, I think your re-interpretation of the question and the resulting post here are probably the weirdest thing I have seen in a long time. It presupposes that exercise of answering the question about the positives is converted into a weighing exercise. You are essentially asking us to give a list of things to be used as a pro-con decision making tool. In fact you are interpreting this as balancing the positives in one against the positives in the other when in my opinion that is exactly what you were asked not to do.

Transsexualism and resulting transition is not a decision is this sense. Most transsexuals do not transition because they believe one is better than the other but rather believe that one is them. You bring your body into alignment with who you are. Decisions are picking up the phone to call a therapist, call the endocrinologist and call the surgeon. In the way you have raised the question: "so ladies what is the up side to you?" is like asking a woman what is the upside of being a woman. The answer must either be shallow, that is external, the frill (you can get that off the crossdressers forum) or very existential. Notwithstanding what many commentators have said here in response the only one that makes sense is "being who I am as a whole". In fact the reality of women with a history of transsexualism is mostly not desirable if measured against "up sides".

This discussion will be of no benefit to you because it takes you down the wrong path. If you simply hope, assume and speculate what the "upside" without actually knowing who you are in your hearts of hearts, then you have to start over in your soul searching.


There has been a fair amount of negative for me to dwell on recently. Yesterday my therapist gave me an opinion after I asked for it, she thinks it very likely that I will transition. She based that on our sessions, the fact that I haven't quit going, haven't quit portraying myself as a woman during the sessions, haven't found any relief from the dysphoria, and that I have given so much thought and DEEP thought to how transitioning will effect my wife, children and family. In the midst of me wallowing in the agony of my fears and dysphoria, she gave me an assignment. She wants me to think about what the positives of staying male would be, and what the positives of transitioning would be. I'm not to consider negatives for either category, just the up side.

So then, having never lived as a woman, I don't particularly know what the up side would be. I have hopes and assumptions, but no real knowledge. Fortunately for me, I know of a place where there are a bunch of people who have already done or are currently doing that which I am contemplating. So ladies, what is the up side to you? What positive aspects has transition given you that you never had before? What has made you say that it was worth it?

Anna

[kellycan27]

I don't think Anna is looking for a comparrison between us and her.. She was asked to do an exercise that I kiddingly referred to as a "test". She was asked and I believe she's asking us what it meant for us.. not as in looking for some kind of guidence as to her own answers or feelings. In other words.. not asking for advice.. merely curious as to what it meant to others?

[Tammy V]

Just being able to live with yourself I think is the biggest upside. Not being too far along in the process I see nothing but upsides so far, except for having to come out to certain people. Its not going to be all glamour and fun though, its just life in a different gender than you one you were born into and hopefully life in your correct gender. I think what hit home for me was a woman I saw in the mall a couple of months ago. She was relatively attractive but walking with metal crutches and she obviously had some handicap or had been in an accident. I thought what if this is my fate, what is something catastrophic happens and you lose your health, looks or basic abilities? Would transition still be worth it? My overwhelming answer was and is yes, even if I would suffer that or worse fate at least I would get to be female. You may or may not get to be the female you dream of being but if you Need to be female then no matter what life throws at you at least your gender will be correct and that is an upside.

[sandra-leigh]

gender dysphoria is the ultimate quality of life destroyer.

For me, my massive depression was a lot worse quality of life destroyer than my gender dysphoria.

I did not discover any conscious gender dysphoria until after my "Major Depressive Incident", but the two do seem likely to be related. My experiences are consistent with the possibility that I had biochemical-level gender conflict for many years that left my brain unable to cope with the stress that most immediately triggered the M.D.I. . My recovery from (ongoing) depression involved going through GID: moving towards female helped so much with my depression that I realized I could not stay male anymore. For me, starting HRT was highly motivated by the chance to diminish depression, rather than (e.g.) by desire for physical congruence.

In some ways I think of my gender dysphoria as being like a "process": it took me from being so sick to being better, but it is relatively background now. I have accepted that I can't go back to being male and I don't think very much about going back, with vague thoughts about going back now inspired by "maybe it would be easier", not by desire to be "male". Though it would probably be fair to say that I do have some dysphoria around exactly where I am in "not male".

[Kathryn Martin]

She is asking here because she needs to answer the question at the next session. She will measure her own feelings against what is being said here, and so it becomes a weighing exercise which is exactly what she was asked not to do.


I don't think Anna is looking for a comparrison between us and her.. She was asked to do an exercise that I kiddingly referred to as a "test". She was asked and I believe she's asking us what it meant for us.. not as in looking for some kind of guidence as to her own answers or feelings. In other words.. not asking for advice.. merely curious as to what it meant to others.

[Badtranny]

She is asking here because she needs to answer the question at the next session. She will measure her own feelings against what is being said here, and so it becomes a weighing exercise which is exactly what she was asked not to do.

Objection! Speculation your honor. ;-)

She may indeed be looking for help or answers and if that's the case than shame on her, OR she might just be curious about what us mouthy broads have to say about it.

One thing is for sure, the respondents so far would make one hell of a great cocktail party. ;-)

[Jorja]

I have lived both as a male and a female for nearly an equal amount of time on this rock we call home. My answer to your question is that there is not an up side per say. What I think is an up may not be what another thinks is an up. It is a personal choice. There were some pretty neat aspects to being male but I felt like I was wearing a Halloween costume all the time. There are some pretty neat aspects to being female. I chose to be female because it felt so right and natural to me. Look into you heart and mind for your answers. Our answers are only our perception of what we think, not yours.

And yes, it did cure the gender dysphoria.

[Bree-asaurus]

For me, my massive depression was a lot worse quality of life destroyer than my gender dysphoria.

But wasn't the depression a direct result of the gender dysphoria? I know that's the case for me.

[Anna Lorree]

I love it when people put words in my mouth or assume they know what my intent is! So much fun!!!

What my intent is with this thread, is perspective. I have been staring at my own struggle with this for quite some time. When one focuses on something for a long time, their perspective becomes myopic, very much like getting tunnel vision. In other words, I am focusing or obsessing on certain aspects regarding the question of transition. That is why my therapist posed the question. Quite frankly, I don't think she will really care what my answers end up being, all she wants out of this exercise is thought. What I was hoping this thread would generate are replies like RieneD's, Melissa's, Bree's and Kelly's, which challenged me to look at the issue at hand from other angles.

What EVERYBODY can be sure of is that I am not going to transition because somebody on this board tells me to. Sorry, I'm not that simple. What you can also be assured of is that I'm not trying to cheat, because with an exercise like this there is no right or wrong answer. It's a thought exercise, period. So is it evil of me to ask others for a differing point of view in order to help me have a wider perspective? Come on, ladies...

EDITED TO ADD: The reason I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to this is because my therapist isn't playing Gate Keeper. She has already told me I can have HRT any time I want it. I DO want it, but for my part, I want to be SURE before I start sticking patches and popping pills.

Anna

[Inna]

But common now, we have to keep the transsexual side of things..............well, transsexual! What would they say if we got all along and sang love songs all day long, they would simply call us Transgenders, I wont stand for that!


I hope you are laughing with me..............or at me, either way is [-]good[/-]....I mean bad!!!!!!!

[ReineD]

Anna, I'm like you. When I feel stumped about something, I try to switch my perspective, with full confidence that I have the ability to not take on what truly doesn't fit.

Most of the time I modify what I hear. Heck, I don't even follow recipes to the letter, ever. :p I take bits that fit, until I end up with a fresh perspective that truly is my own, even if it is a partial one.

I have a suggestion for you, if you'll go for it. :)

Every morning until your next appointment, write 3-5 positives about a gender, but alternate male one day and female the next. Don't edit, write the first thing that comes to mind, even if it is silly. It doesn't matter if you've experienced it or not. You're rather writing about what you want. Tell yourself it's just for fun. And empty your mind of everything, even what you wrote two days before. Go with your feelings. I think this works best in the morning. This is when I have the most insight, usually within 5 minutes after I wake up. It's amazing how clear things seem for me at that time, before all the rationalizations and "stories" that my brain is so good at hanging onto, begin to cloud my daily thoughts.

Don't revisit what you've written already, just let it be. And then sometime before your appointment, have a look at everything all at once. You'll throw out some stuff, add on to other stuff, and hopefully something pretty accurate with form.

:hugs:

[sandra-leigh]

But wasn't the depression a direct result of the gender dysphoria? I know that's the case for me.

Retrospective interpretation of events is that I was probably born with unusual brain biology or physiology that lead to biochemical imbalances, and that "male" was dominant in me until my brain couldn't support that any more, the "male" extended further and further over the edge until it fell down. But I didn't know it, and one valid interpretation of the word "dysphoria" is that if one is not aware of something then it cannot be causing enough discomfort to be termed "dysphoria".

Interestingly, this interpretation does not require or imply that "I was always female", even at the same time that it implies that I would likely have been better off "switching" to female much earlier, if only I had known to do so. The Coyote doesn't fall until he looks down...

[noeleena]

Hi,

Whats the upside , I cant answer that in the way you maybe thinking.

The main reason being i never changed as to transistion , as you know why, .

Yet there were changes i went through, my body & my hormones in how they started changes long before any meds or surgerys, my mind set was allready there just not activated in the normal way.

Things that did change i was able to grow as a female / woman was able to express who i was ,

not hide away not being in front of people hated that being forced to be around men being percived in the way i was. not able to open up & explain . oh heck this is who i am cant you see that , cant you understand im a female i think as one why cant you see,

Well i was seen as different in the eyes of those who knew, as i found out later,

The up side, im seen for who i am not percived in any other way, given the reconition for just being myself , accepted as if you like one of the girls no ?s asked no ummm what do we have here, how do we get around this,

its just so lovely to be able to express my tears my joy my love. you know...... no hangups ....., no but you cant be a woman your just sooooo....... you really are a woman arnt you.

yes i am iv allways been one just happen to be different thats all.

You know iv said it before its not the clothes not the makeup shoes or what ever eles those here use,

This is just being a real person real from birth, you know for this kid there was never a trying to act or be what im not ,

So to sum up what people see in me is nothing more than im a woman in my own right, & accepted .

My other side is still a part of my makeup yet thats being left behind, now,

My changes are , growing as a woman liveing as one ....being .... one & doing as one.

Hey i cant ask for more,

you know theres tears behind all of this you know it was a struggle & very hard, because it effected our family of 16. & still does so im very mindfull of whats happened & taken place over the last 19 years,

& just being where i am now is a bitter / sweet pill iv had to take, was it worth it yes for my own sanity, yes very much so.

...noeleena...

[Aprilrain]

There is only one reason to transition, there are many aspects to being a woman that, if your a woman, are great. There are good reasons why a woman might want the privileges afforded men (like its only fair!) and she needn't give up her femininity to be treated with equal dignity. In other words woman shouldn't have to act like men to be treated as their equals. But again there is only one reason to transition. Transition lies outside the scope of the pros and cons of being a man or woman. If one can decide not to transition then one has made the right decision! For me it was do or die or at least it felt like it at the time.

I was recently watching Breaking Bad and in the show the main character is charged with the grizzly task of murdering someone they have taken as a prisoner. He dosen't want to do it so he makes a list of the pros and cons of letting the guy go. the pro coloum is long and contains phrases like "it's the morally right thing to do" but the con coloum has only one phrase. "he'll kill your entire family if you let him go" this is what the "decision" to transition felt like for me, it was not something I wanted to do but something that needed to be done if I wanted to live!

[LeaP]

Thinking about it, my therapist asked a companion question to the pro/con one. Which was, "describe to me what your life would be like post-transition." It's a question to elicit scenarios as you think through aspects of life like work, shopping, taking classes ... whatever. Come up with a list of activities and interactions and envision yourself there. It's a good way to back into your pros and cons.

[Inna]

I think all in all what had been said and especially taking in the stark realism of what Kathryn stated, any proposal of projection is both necessary however illusive at best.

I had to elude reality in order to make some steps forward simply because without the illusion of goodness on the other side, stepping off the cliff of supposed certainty didn't make any sense. In fact in a way it seemed suicidal in nature, step off and lose your family, comforts, ability to survive, and yet you really don't know how far down the floor of the valley is.

So imagining the goodness out there, which by the way it does come, however nothing like foreseen reality in fantastic projections of what shall come, seemed as necessary as hormones I was taking.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Anna,

I think its totally fair to ask the question in the way you asked it..

I have always felt that when some of us are thinking thoughts like "am i really ts?" or "am i really a woman?" there is so much noise and crap in our heads...Who am i?? is such an existential question seemingly impossible question
...this is especially true for those of us that invested in a male life..

I think it can be really beneficial to try different ways to think about it... i just don't get why anyone would have a problem with trying any means neccessary

BTW...i think you are in good hands if you feel there is no real gate keeper mentality in therapy...

I hope you keep doing exactly what you doing...its working for you...i know the details in your life, especially around your marraige, are not good right now, but its important for you to keep your wits about you and try to make good decisions for yourself..

i do think the only "upside' is the one many of us have mentioned...its the feeling of being normalness around being yourself...its getting rid of Gender dysphoria..
but its an upside that is pretty impossible to internalize until you've lived it..


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and btw sandra-leigh i hear you, depression is terrible to live with..i've been depressed..i'm guessing your experience may have been different but for me the couple of years where the gender dysphoria had hold of me was much much worse...it wasn't depression, it was abyss

[Traci Elizabeth]

But common now, we have to keep the transsexual side of things..............well, transsexual! What would they say if we got all along and sang love songs all day long, they would simply call us Transgenders, I wont stand for that!


I hope you are laughing with me..............or at me, either way is [-]good[/-]....I mean bad!!!!!!!


Not to steal this thread but Inna, I can easily see your likeness in your current aviator. That most certainly is what you will look like in 2 decades. Well crap, in 2 decades, I'll look like that too. :lol:

[sandra-leigh]

and btw stephanie i hear you, depression is terrible to live with..

I'm wondering if that was perhaps addressed to me? None of the Stephanie's have posted in this particular thread.

My first year of major depression was too intense to think about much at all. Like laying on the couch with "I don't..." circling through my head, since "I don't feel so good" (cue Hans Solo) was more complex than I could manage a lot of the time. If getting out of that required overthrowing my notions of what gender I was, then it was a small price to pay.

[elizabethamy]

But wasn't the depression a direct result of the gender dysphoria? I know that's the case for me.

That's what I hope would be the upside for me -- if I find out that the depression was not caused by the dysphoria, then what a sad day that would be!

elizabethamy

[LeaP]

I have always felt that when some of us are thinking thoughts like "am i really ts?" or "am i really a woman?" there is so much noise and crap in our heads...Who am i?? is such an existential question seemingly impossible question
...this is especially true for those of us that invested in a male life..

I think it can be really beneficial to try different ways to think about it... ...

All of this makes sense to me, but I also understand Kathryn's point, given the construction of the OP.. After all, Anna talks about lists of positives and ends with a question about what (presumably out of such considerations) made it "worth while".

We've all been weighing in with our take on the significance of the lists. Kaitlyn made an introspection point, Kathryn made a identity point, I made a cognitive therapy point, others contributed to the requested lists, etc. The problem is that none of us really understand what the therapist had in mind.

[ColleenA]

I have enjoyed reading everything on this thread. Many wonderful comments made - and argued, such as should this discussion even be held.

My favorite comment? It's a toss-up between "The Coyote doesn't fall until he looks down..." for its wit and "The opposite of gender dysphoria is not gender euphoria, it's normalcy" for its insight.

The most unusual comment? A clear winner from she who started the thread!

The positives to being a woman? ... Drinking wine instead of beer. :confused3:


I have nothing I can contribute to the discussion myself, but I will share that while my BFF often complains about this or that downside of being a woman, she NEVER expresses any regret about having transitioned!

[Pexetta]

Reine's post on the possible positive aspects of masculinity have made me think positively about it for the first time in a long time...


the loss of male power and privilege is something I view as a very real cost, I have no idea why a sane person would give it up

I don't know, I kind of feel those are like stolen goods and don't honestly belong to me or any other genetic male in the first place.

[Anna Lorree]

I have enjoyed reading everything on this thread. Many wonderful comments made - and argued, such as should this discussion even be held.

My favorite comment? It's a toss-up between "The Coyote doesn't fall until he looks down..." for its wit and "The opposite of gender dysphoria is not gender euphoria, it's normalcy" for its insight.

The most unusual comment? A clear winner from she who started the thread!
:confused3:


I have nothing I can contribute to the discussion myself, but I will share that while my BFF often complains about this or that downside of being a woman, she NEVER expresses any regret about having transitioned!

My "unusual comment" comes from the very local society and group of people I live around. Here, men drink beer or whiskey, period. My comment was a bit of brainstorming, just one of the differences I have noticed and felt hemmed in by. It is unfortunate to be TS and live in an area where "redneck" is a compliment...

Anna

[kimdl93]

My "unusual comment" comes from the very local society and group of people I live around. Here, men drink beer or whiskey, period. My comment was a bit of brainstorming, just one of the differences I have noticed and felt hemmed in by. It is unfortunate to be TS and live in an area where "redneck" is a compliment...

Anna

Anna, knowing your background, mine and the diversity of people on this site, I have to wonder how many of our ostensibly rednecked friends are harboring secrets of their own. It's a bit of topic, but we may have more fellow travelers than we realize.

[ColleenA]

My "unusual comment" comes from the very local society and group of people I live around. Here, men drink beer or whiskey, period.

Ahh. So you're from someplace like Redding, Ukiah or Placerville. I spent most of my life in Silicon Valley - not as liberal as San Francisco's reputation, but certainly no bastion for rednecks.

[Anna Lorree]

Ahh. So you're from someplace like Redding, Ukiah or Placerville. I spent most of my life in Silicon Valley - not as liberal as San Francisco's reputation, but certainly no bastion for rednecks.

Yes, I'm near Eureka. Not a really thriving or friendly place for us I am afraid.

Anna

[Anna Lorree]

Anna, knowing your background, mine and the diversity of people on this site, I have to wonder how many of our ostensibly rednecked friends are harboring secrets of their own. It's a bit of topic, but we may have more fellow travelers than we realize.

I know of a few others around here, but not many.

Anna

[StephanieC]

I'm not going to debate the question itself, I'm just going to answer in the way I interpret. To me, being female is having the freedom to see the many colors of the world, rather than the dullness of simply moving from point A to point B. To be able to experience the array of emotions rather then being straitlaced to rigid non-emotion. To be able to change how I will appear or act with people instead of fearing that people think I am acting "unusual". I want the freedom to love and care without feeling out-of-place. I'd like to live the waltz, the tango, the swing depending on mood, day, surrounding environment without being forced to dance "the robot". I want to have "eyes wide open" rather than "eyes ahead".

Those are some of the goals I see as a woman.

-stephani

[Rianna Humble]

What are the upsides of transition (so far) for me? In no particular order:

As many have already mentioned, getting rid of that nagging feeling that I am just not right the way I am (aka Dysphoria)

Before transition, if I was talking to another girl/woman about what was important to her, I always wondered if they would find my interest creepy (cos men don't talk about those things), but now I'm just another woman so I don't have to worry any more.

Having so many more people want to be my friend than ever wanted to know Robert for himself rather than for what he could do for them.

Not wanting to throw up every time I get dressed for work is another big positive for me (mind you that only came in about the last 6-8 months before transition)

Not having to ask myself "What would a man do in this situation?"

Being true to mine own self ...

Becoming (in a very good friend's words) "a much nicer person to know than Robert was"

[Pink Person]

These are all good answers because they give you food for thought. There's no harm done
by asking any questions. On the contrary, starving your thoughts makes them prone to constructing false beliefs.

I think you should examine your definitions of man/woman and male/female as part of your soul searching. We live in a world that is notoriously narrow-minded on these subjects. If there are only two kinds of people in the world then you are neither of them. If there is more than one way to be a man or a woman then perhaps you are already the person you should be.

Don't be so quick to sell yourself short.

[Michelle.M]

The loss of male power and privilege is something I view as a very real cost, I have no idea why a sane person would give it up, but I am contemplating exactly that.

FOR ME (remember, this is only my opinion) I began to enjoy real freedom when I stopped thinking like this. Society (usually in a subtle way) wants us to look at the gender binary in a Good / Bad or a Better / Worse or a Greater / Lesser paradigm. As long as we do we'll always see loss of male privilege as exactly that - loss.

Nobody ever talks about Female Privilege. Even reading these words here almost seems laughable (again, thanks to the established gender binary paradigm). In my relationships with others there is no question of how and when the balance of privilege (I'll avoid the use of the term "power" for now) shifts from the males in my life to myself and other women. My former male privilege has been replaced by female privilege, and I'm learning how to use it quite well, thank you!

FOR ME (remember, this is only my opinion) my transition took off like a rocket when it occurred to me that I should be more concerned about actively seeking out ways to lose my male privilege and be much less concerned about losing my penis.

Don't think of it as a cost. Think of it as an investment.


The positives to being a woman? Being able to touch people during conversation and having it not seem weird. Being able to be emotional when I feel the need or desire to do so. Being able to feel soft and gentle. Feeling as though people will view me less as competition. Being able to gab with women, because I have never really been able to socialize well with men. Drinking wine instead of beer. Softer sweaters, softer curves, and a softer personality. Being able to feel like I belong somewhere, because right now I don't feel like I belong in the tribe of men.

Those are just things, and although they might seem typically female they do not define us as women. Men can do all that as well.


And to be able to stop looking in the mirror and wondering, "What if?"

That's a very real and worthwhile result of transition, IMHO.


My favorite comment? It's a toss-up between "The Coyote doesn't fall until he looks down..." for its wit

Love that!


and "The opposite of gender dysphoria is not gender euphoria, it's normalcy" for its insight.

I am SO stealing that one!

[KellyJameson]

I wanted my mind to give me rest, to go quiet so that I could fully live in the moment.

I wanted to be free from the disgust that my obviously feminine energy in a body that was not obviously feminine invoked in others so I could live in peace among others, to stop living contrary to nature and being feared because of it (gender is felt, sensed by people)

I wanted a body that matched my natural emotional and spiritual energy and expression.

I was exhausted from living in-between genders and the experience of frustration because I could be neither but intuitively knew I could easily step into the life of living as a woman because I had always been living as one anyway but kept it hidden by playing a learned role of not being one.

I was exhausted from fighting against everyone and wished to finally fit in so I could live unnoticed by being so common place (exhausted from being different)

I accepted that it would always be impossible for me to bond intimately with a woman because they are to much like me, I could fake physical sexual love but would never genuinely experience physical sexual love in a relationship because a woman cannot create in me that appetite and intense interest (response), I like them but do not notice them in that way men do who have an opposite energy to them.

In my opinion being TS without changing the physical is living apart from yourself so you live a virtual existence separate from reality, it is the difference between pretend and reality.

I did not feel I existed until I understood my own truth and begun living it, up until than everything was a lie.

I did not want to be TS, I do not want to be TS, I did not want to change but I no longer could continue to bend myself into something I was not.

Accepting and being TS for me was an act of surrender based on self love and mental health and this is the upside for me (being able to finally live with myself)

[Rachel Smith]

I can't give you any concrete upside to transition as I haven't. What I do know is that when I am Rachel, which is everywhere but work, I am more accepted by people. I feel like I fit in and I am more comfortable in my own skin. I feel when YOU are more comfortable with yourself people are more comfortable with you. Everyone is more chatty with Rachel, males as well as females. I get lots of friendly smiles and random hellos which makes me feel good so in turn I feel I project that positive feeling even when being silent. It's like I broadcast it without saying a word and people feel more comfortable around me because I am more comfortable around myself. (Please excuse my redundancy) That is my upside to possible transition.

Hope that helps
Rachel

[morgan51]

I get to live, and live as my true self , perhaps happy perhaps sad or lonley but as me! Loss of relations seems to be a down side to transition but our true friends seem to appear and stay if we are true to ourselves. I am truly at peace with Morgan today and I never was with him!

[Beverley Sims]

After the rough ride on your journey, two to three years at least, I think you will feel it was definitely worth it.
I believe there is a bumpy ride though.
The girls I have known drove me mad for years with their perceived and real problems.
The first thing is the big decision. To start transition and be totally committed.
They thought it was the right decision and I can laugh with them now.
Me? I think I am a straight CDer. :)

[kellycan27]

IMO gaining the "female advantage" far outweighed any loss of "male privilege". Fully transitioning was like stepping through the looking glass or learning the secret handshake. If I compare my life now with my life before transition.. There have been nothing but upsides.