A "fair" ULTIMATUM?

[Wildaboutheels]

Ok, in the grand scheme of things, it's ONLY hair. But what if your SO just had a "thing" about body hair. She was OK with ANYthing and everything except shaving and she finally tells you, "If YOU don't stop shaving I WILL"...

And you call her bluff and she turns into a miniature Sasquatch within a month. She doesn't care what Society thinks, clearly.

Can you/could you be or feel feminine while "hairy"?

[Tracii G]

Heck thats easy keep shaving!
She won't let her's grow too far I'll bet.

[STACY B]

I never shave ,,,So I would say Hell yea thats easy ,,,Lets get it on ,,, Neet's the way I roll ,,,LOL,,,,,

[Stephanie47]

Don't a lot of European women not shave? Actually, it will only get bad when she starts getting a mustache on her upper lip. I hated it when my eighty year old grandma always tried to kiss me on the lips. It was really prickly! :)

[deebra]

NO, If you stop shaving you'll look like a gorilla in a dress. Do you think something as feminine and beautiful as Miss America or a Playboy Centerfoll doesn't shave. Keep shaving, she'll give in.

[Roberta Marie]

The guys that I use to work with use to joke that I could save money if, instead of buying sweaters, I could just have my wife knit a sweater out of the hair that was already on my body. That's how hairy I am. That said, my wife likes hair, but when I've discussed shaving with her, her usual reply is, "It's your body and your hair. I'm not going to tell you what to do with it." She recognizes my need to shave, and I recognize her desire that I have hair. So, out of love and respect for her, I shave only what is visible for the clothes that I'm wearing for the day. If I'm wearing a skirt, the legs get shaved, especially in the summer. If I'm wearing a low cut top, my chest gets shaved, but only as far as necessary for the top that I'm wearing, never below the bra line. My back (unless it's going to be exposed) and abdomen never get shaved. It's one of the sacrifices that I'm happy to make to make her happy. She is extremely supportive. I dress most of the time around the house, and I go out regularly, quite often with my wife. She's given up a lot for my happiness, so keeping some hair for her doesn't seem like a lot to give.

[Kate Simmons]

My GF likes hairy guys, so I don't shave now. It's an interesting challenge for going to the club dancing for sure, so I'll have to be inventive. The bottom line is to "feel good " about yourself in any state is to balance your male and female energies. That, more than mere appearance, is the determining factor in my opinion Hon. ;) :battingeyelashes: :)

[sandra-leigh]

A few weeks ago I saw a young women, looked like she was from Northern India, with a distinct mustache. Surprised me a little as she was clearly not East European.

[Lorileah]

Here is where what most consider a male trait takes over....Logically, if you don't want her telling you what to do you can't complain about what she does. Right????

This subject comes up in convoluted form a lot here. It is the old what if your wife....question. And it usually involves the wife doing un-"feminine" things. What if she decided she was going to drink beer watch football and keep her hand down the front of her pants? I love how the reaction often is "Hell no!' Hypocritical bunch we haz heer iznt it?

[Gillian Gigs]

Meet with her in the middle. Trim the hair to its shortest length with a trimmer. Then there is some hair, but not long enough to be a pain for you.

[STACY B]

I don't think you should shave it ya SO don't want ya too ,,, Just wear a Body Stocking to cover everything up ,,,That way you both are content !

[NicoleScott]

As crossdressers, we do what we can, and some just can't shave their body. So we cover. Some can't go out, so we make the best of it when we stay in. Can't wear glue-on nails or paint our natural nails, so we use adhesive stick-ons. Can't have makeup reside, so we avoid staining lipsticks. etc etc etc
Yes, shaving does feel nice, but there are many other ways to feel feminine.

As for the ultimatum, rule # 1 is: never give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take. Or, put another way, don't issue an ultimatum you're not prepared to carry out.
Finally, there is no obligation to respond to an ultimatum. Carry on as you will, and make the other person decide what to do.

[Bree-asaurus]

I hate shaving. I only shave when I'm gonna show my legs instead of my usual jeans. Leg hair doesn't change how I feel.

And there's no such thing as a fair ultimatum. An ultimatum is selfish. Relationships are about compromise.

[STACY B]

I hate shaving. I only shave when I'm gonna show my legs instead of my usual jeans. Leg hair doesn't change how I feel.

And there's no such thing as a fair ultimatum. An ultimatum is selfish. Relationships are about compromise.

I hate shaving to ,,I wish someone else would do it while I sleep ,,LOL,,, That neet is to messy an will get all over the bed an I will be in more trouble with her than I am in on here !!! So maybe just spread some Pet Milk on me an let the Cat Lick it off !! LOL,,,, Meowwww here kitty ,,kitty,,, I took a bath this time !!

[Bree-asaurus]

I hate shaving to ,,I wish someone else would do it while I sleep ,,LOL,,, That neet is to messy an will get all over the bed an I will be in more trouble with her than I am in on here !!! So maybe just spread some Pet Milk on me an let the Cat Lick it off !! LOL,,,, Meowwww here kitty ,,kitty,,, I took a bath this time !!

I'm going to try epilating again... I'm scared! Where are my ice packs?!

[whowhatwhen]

I hate shaving. I only shave when I'm gonna show my legs instead of my usual jeans. Leg hair doesn't change how I feel.

What if your leg hair looks like spider legs sticking out of your legs?
WHAT THEN?!

:P


I'm going to try epilating again... I'm scared! Where are my ice packs?!

You don't need any, in all fairness it does hurt like hell but after a few minutes the pain all blends into background noise.
Setup a laptop and watch a movie while you're at it, the time will (almost) fly.

[pippinfort]

You can always double up on the hose to hide a multitude of sins.....

[Bree-asaurus]

What if your leg hair looks like spider legs sticking out of your legs?
WHAT THEN?!

:P

2 years of HRT kinda fixed it for me :D


You don't need any, in all fairness it does hurt like hell but after a few minutes the pain all blends into background noise.
Setup a laptop and watch a movie while you're at it, the time will (almost) fly.

I've done it before. Epilated for a few weeks. It hurt too much. I have a very low pain tolerance... and I'm a huge baby.

[Cynthia Anne]

I'm from the SHOW-ME state! Show me or tell me I can't; I WILL! Enough said!!!

[sandra-leigh]

I'm going to try epilating again... I'm scared!

Epilating? Is that "scared" or "scarred" ??

[whowhatwhen]

Epilating? Is that "scared" or "scarred" ??

Actually...
If you epilate hairs that lie on a stretch mark they will scar a bit, but clears up within a week.

[eileendover]

She doesn't care what Society thinks, clearly.

Sounds like you and she share the same opinion about what Society thinks about ones appearance.
So what's the problem?

[Megan Briana]

I don't think you should shave it ya SO don't want ya too ,,, Just wear a Body Stocking to cover everything up ,,,That way you both are content !

THis should work. It is what I plan on doing. I have lots of arm and leg hair. The chest went by-by but the rest has to stay until it gets cooler out. A friend told me tights, and whatever the equivalent it has for the top ( I laughed because she couldnt name it any more that I could). The double hose idea sounds like a winner too.

[STACY B]

I'm going to try epilating again... I'm scared! Where are my ice packs?!



Not me ,,I would Rather go to the Dentist !!! signed Cry Baby !!!

[Angie G]

I don't know what to tell you hun. Tank god I don;t have to worry about such things.I think my wife likes my shaved legs.:hugs:
Angie

[Launa]

I would say sure go ahead and don't shave. We'll see who gives in first and I know I'm good at holding my feet to the fire.
However if she started growing a full beard then that could be tough.

[giuseppina]

I'm going to try epilating again... I'm scared! Where are my ice packs?!

What happens if you get yourself legally impaired with alcoholic beverages?:D

Please don't drive if you try this.

And BTW: A fair ultimatim is an oxymoron.

[Alliecat]

Ok, in the grand scheme of things, it's ONLY hair. But what if your SO just had a "thing" about body hair. She was OK with ANYthing and everything except shaving and she finally tells you, "If YOU don't stop shaving I WILL"...

And you call her bluff and she turns into a miniature Sasquatch within a month. She doesn't care what Society thinks, clearly.

Can you/could you be or feel feminine while "hairy"?

Raise, reraise. Keep shaving.

[Rianna Humble]

You all go on about how you want your spouses to accept you, or to understand, yet any time someone brings up a subject like this to a man just about everyone counsels confrontation and ignoring the wife's feelings! :angry:

I'm not saying that the ultimatum was a good way to get the OP's attention, but there is obviously something more at stake. How many times did the OP's spouse bring this subject up more gently before getting to the ultimatum stage? Or did she just come straight out with it?

If she has brought it up in the past and the OP has already taken your advice to ignore her wife's feelings, then the ultimatum may well be deserved, but if not then she should try to talk to her wife :eek: to understand what is the underlying issue.

I always thought that a relationship was meant to be about give and take, but to read the responses in this thread, you guys seem to think that the "give" should be by the SO and the "take" should be from the SO - she gives, you take :Angry3:

[sinderella]

It depends on your appearance when you first met and what it was about you that attracted her. If you were in CD mode and shaved completely then you're golden. But if you told her of your CDing later in your relationship (and she accepted it) then she deserves a little respect. We all have preferences in body type and style of SO's or would be SO's. If she likes a warm fuzzy chest to snuggle to at night or see it peeking from a vneck tee, that's her attraction. Whether it's on you or some other male she will always notice it. I prefer a small gal when I date, and if we were to marry and she "grew out" my attraction would fade. At that point I would probably notice the smaller petite gals more than her at that point. I think it's human nature. If you say you don't have a type then I would call you a liar. She had her type and married it...wether it was a regular guy or a CD, she's following her attraction. For the sanctity of your marriage I think you owe it to her to deliver what she bought, after all...you sold it to her my friend.

[Kate T]

I'm with Rianna and Lori here.

Why did your wife give you an "ultimatum". From what you have said here it seems that you have repeatedly ignored her feelings and wishes. So now she is ignoring yours. Tit for tat.

In my opinion, you need to make sure you are communicating well, otherwise this could escalate to something more serious than whether you want shaved legs. I am not going to pass any judgement on who may or may not be right or wrong because just about by definition, if your wife has delivered this ultimatum, and Bree is right, there is no such thing as a "fair" ultimatum, then you both have a problem.

[Tina B.]

Since this is just an hypothetical question, let ask one too, do I get to tell her how to wear her hair, and what colors she can dye it? If I get to tell her want she can do with her body, then she has the right to tell me what I can do with mine. But, isn't there always a but, if I can't tell her how to look, she can't tell me how to look. And never, never give me an ultimatum, or threat, I'll go the other way every time. We can disscuss anything, but I don't take orders well, never did. i also don't make threats, the door swings both ways if anybody wants to use it. Luckly I'm married to a women that relizes we are both grownups, and free to make our own choices about personal things, and that gets personal.
Tina B

[whowhatwhen]

If it comes down to "keep/grow your body hair or I'm leaving/doing x" then maybe it's time to split up and both of you to find new loves.
She wants hair, you don't, and neither is fair to each other so why should either of you be uncomfortable?

Just as it's your body to shave, it's her body to grow a bitchin' 'stache and if neither like it then simply break up.
It's not like marriage is special or means anything, it's just another word twisted around to exclude and otherize now.

I'll also let you know that staying in a hollow, empty marriage really **cks kids up so don't think you're doing them any favours by staying together.
>(

....Sorry, I think I drifted off there.
O_O

[Wildaboutheels]

Would it have done any good to ask, Do you like or "enjoy" running your hands over your SO's SMOOTH skin?

[Kate Simmons]

Absolutely Hon and she likes the hair but then again I'm comfortable with who I am in either mode. ;):battingeyelashes: :)

[Raychel]

I try to always keep my wifes feelings and thoughts in my mind, But if she started giving me ultimatums, I would have a few of my own in return.

She is great, she overlooks my shortcomings and still loves me for some strange reason,

[Marlana]

Stacy B. you are cracking me up!😜😜😜

[Beverley Sims]

Like Stacy i'm a neat person.....
No that's Neet, Veet or whatever. :)

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Since this is just an hypothetical question, let ask one too, do I get to tell her how to wear her hair, and what colors she can dye it? If I get to tell her want she can do with her body, then she has the right to tell me what I can do with mine. But, isn't there always a but, if I can't tell her how to look, she can't tell me how to look. And never, never give me an ultimatum, or threat, I'll go the other way every time. We can disscuss anything, but I don't take orders well, never did. i also don't make threats, the door swings both ways if anybody wants to use it. Luckly I'm married to a women that relizes we are both grownups, and free to make our own choices about personal things, and that gets personal.
Tina B

whilst this would appear to be a fair argument in principal, a wife changing her hair style or colour is not normally about trying to look more masculine - this is the same old argument as "well women wear trousers so why cant we wear dresses?" Maybe if your wife wanted a crew cut or a kojak you might have something to say about it! especially if it was closely followed by stuffing a length of hose down the front of her men's jeans and donning a fake moustache and beard.

If my husband was an olympic cyclist or swimmer, I probably wouldnt have a problem with him shaving his legs, or indeed all of his body hair - because the motive behind it would be purely to improve his performance as such a cyclist/swimmer. However, removing body hair for the express reason of looking and feeling feminine is, to me, repulsive. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is with me - its an in your face 24/7 reminder of the CD'ing, even when he's in drab - he would still have smooth girly legs and its a huge turn off! He had hairy legs when I met him and I like them that way - I am fine with him dressing any time he wants really, within reason but clothes come off and leave no lasting reminder.


for the record, I always speak to my husband first about when I consider changing my hairstyle and I dont change the colour - if he said no I dont want you to get it cut like that or permed etc. I almost certainly wouldnt get it done. After all, he's the one who has to look at me most of the time, I dont spend all day looking in the mirror.

personally I'm not a big fan of ultimatums - they often end badly - but most womens wont go down this route unless they have tried the subtle hints, gentle requests, suggestions etc. and all have failed to get through - an ultimatum is usually a last resort

[whowhatwhen]

Why keep it up then?
He has to keep body hair he hates and you don't see the man you fell in love with.

[Miriam-J]

whilst this would appear to be a fair argument in principal, a wife changing her hair style or colour is not normally about trying to look more masculine - this is the same old argument as "well women wear trousers so why cant we wear dresses?" Maybe if your wife wanted a crew cut or a kojak you might have something to say about it! especially if it was closely followed by stuffing a length of hose down the front of her men's jeans and donning a fake moustache and beard.

If my husband was an olympic cyclist or swimmer, I probably wouldnt have a problem with him shaving his legs, or indeed all of his body hair - because the motive behind it would be purely to improve his performance as such a cyclist/swimmer. However, removing body hair for the express reason of looking and feeling feminine is, to me, repulsive. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is with me - its an in your face 24/7 reminder of the CD'ing, even when he's in drab - he would still have smooth girly legs and its a huge turn off! He had hairy legs when I met him and I like them that way - I am fine with him dressing any time he wants really, within reason but clothes come off and leave no lasting reminder.


for the record, I always speak to my husband first about when I consider changing my hairstyle and I dont change the colour - if he said no I dont want you to get it cut like that or permed etc. I almost certainly wouldnt get it done. After all, he's the one who has to look at me most of the time, I dont spend all day looking in the mirror.

personally I'm not a big fan of ultimatums - they often end badly - but most womens wont go down this route unless they have tried the subtle hints, gentle requests, suggestions etc. and all have failed to get through - an ultimatum is usually a last resort

At last a reasonable voice in this thread - thank you.

I think the ultimatum premise behind the opening post has taken this whole thread on a tangent from the important issue. The real issues have to do with whether shaved legs and/or body are necessary for the expression of your femininity, and whether your SO's feelings about it matter.

Let me address the second issue first. We attach to another person because we care deeply about them and want to advance their happiness, as well as do what we can to enhance our relationship and bonds. This is impossible if we dismiss the feelings of our SO on any matter, or if we fail to even consider those feelings in the first place. Whether we like it or not, our physical appearance and masculinity matters a lot to most of our wives - most certainly in my case. Even if our wives accept and facilitate our dressing, they generally continue to appreciate our male selves. But the physical attributes that add up to masculinity are different for each wife. In my case, my chest hair is an important part of her perception though she doesn't care about facial hair. This means I can do what I want with my face without offending, but cause her problems if I shave my chest. I care enough about her to keep the chest hair, though she doesn't mind me trimming a bit lower at the neck so I can wear something besides turtlenecks.

As for the first issue ... Is shaving your chest or legs necessary for you to feel your femininity? Can you dress in such a way that you can cover your hair anyway? It's certainly quite doable, and many of us do it all the time. High necks, long sleeves, perhaps even long skirts - all feel quite feminine, though perhaps not as sexy as some would like. But then, I didn't think this was about being sexy anyway, just feminine.

So, let's assume for a moment that we have reasonable relationships with our SOs, with give and take, open communication, and real concern for the feelings of one another. Why wouldn't we be open to compromises that work for both and strengthen the relationship?

Miriam

[UNDERDRESSER]

I thought that this was just a hypothetical question for me, then I remembered that I'd asked my Gf about the chest hair. She said she liked what little I have, so I didn't shave it. She has no issues with any other shaving, legs, belly, pits, arms, even helped me shave the back and neck! She does give me grief and is not interested in intimate contact when I'm stubbly, but that is perfectly understandable! Slightly different view for me, as I don't know that I want to dress fully, and if I did, I think I could live with a high neckline.

[Wildaboutheels]

The responses are all over the place.

As expected.

Is this not COMPROMISE on the SO's part?

She has said in effect to "keep on shaving if you want to".

ARE the consequnces worth it to you? Just how much do you want your SO to be smooth?

[Kate T]

Would it have done any good to ask, Do you like or "enjoy" running your hands over your SO's SMOOTH skin?

Umm, No. Now you sound like your just trying to define how your SO should express themselves. Pot calling the kettle black comes to mind.

[Jamie001]

No. It is not possible to feel feminine with body hair. The hair must go.

[Roberta Marie]

And there's no such thing as a fair ultimatum. An ultimatum is selfish. Relationships are about compromise.

All too often, a person feels that an ultimatum is the last ditch effort to get through to their partner when all other attempts to deal with their partner's selfishness have failed.

[Roberta Marie]

No. It is not possible to feel feminine with body hair. The hair must go.

Do you dress because you feel feminine, or do you feel feminine because you dress? Do you shave because you feel feminine, or do you feel feminine because you shave?

[whowhatwhen]

Expecting someone to keep their body hair for your superficial benefit is totally not selfish at all!
To be fair, it's not fair either that a man has any say over his wife's appearance either.

[Bree-asaurus]

All too often, a person feels that an ultimatum is the last ditch effort to get through to their partner when all other attempts to deal with their partner's selfishness have failed.

Ok, I'll give you that. An ultimatum like: "We need to talk about [some major issue] or I'm leaving you" in an effort to save a relationship is understandable. But THIS ultimatum is just silly, lol.

[sandra-leigh]

We attach to another person because we care deeply about them and want to advance their happiness, as well as do what we can to enhance our relationship and bonds.

I tried that when I was young. Skipping the awful details: I got markedly taken advantage of, and quite emotionally burned out. (Decades later, I can barely speak about that period with my therapists.)

As a result, I learned to avoid attachments, or drop attachments, if the other person is not reciprocating. That doesn't mean we have to agree on everything, but it does mean that if I feel a substantial imbalance that even though I may care deeply about the person and want to advance their happiness, that I may need to get out of the situation to protect myself.