The Drag Queen Dilemma...

[Megan_Renee]

Over on Reddit there was a recent discussion about RuPaul's shows being non-helpful for the trans community. Looking for it now I can't find it (of course), but it sparked an interesting thought process in my pea-brain.

The TG folks on Reddit (mostly TS, but still TG), do not seem to like drag queens as a general rule. There is some belief that drag queens are bad for transgender rights, almost as if queens are mocking us. I don't get this vibe at all from Drag Race, rather they talk a lot about LGTB-Q issues, sometimes bringing family into the story.

I feel like men dressing as women will spark controversy and bring about awareness to gender variance regardless of the motivation for doing so. The same is true of FTM individuals (of whom there are many on Reddit).

What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

[ThereseW]

I weigh in on the side of the drag queens and kings. The Cirque du Soleil show Zumanity is hosted by a drag queen - it was a few years ago but she was convincing and kind of hot. :o. I was there with business guests and clearly they didn't know she was a drag queen. I had it figured out right away - but being a CD I I have a kind of radar for that. Through the show she really connected with the audience, in a funny, sassy, spunky and sexy kind of way. By the end of the show the whole audience was in on the drag queen thing, and it really broke down some barriers. Huge standing ovation. My point is that the drag queen thing can be done to shock and exploit (and maybe that's the reality show deal), or it can be done to break down those barriers to the non TG world. And some modern theater does a great job in breaking down those barriers. Who didn't cry when Angel died in "Rent"?

[Cynthia Anne]

I personally don't think it's much of an issue! I know of some DQ's that do treat TG's just fine When my gay brother was alive I met many of them and we got along just fine with them knowing I was TG!

[STACY B]

I think we should Bring um ALL in ,,Who the HELL are we to say who is right an who is wrong ,,,Lets be one big happy family . More the Merrier ,,, Hell we could learn alot from them ,,I love Drag Queens ,,, They are CRAZY an don't care ,,,, Many Hands Make's Lite Work !!!

[Jenniferathome]

A drag queen is not trying to blend as a woman, they are for entertainment and way over the top. They are not helpful to gaining acceptance for crossdressers in general. They are, I believe, what most people think of when they think of crossdressing and that is not "us".

[luscious]

I KEEP HEARING TS call DQ/CD/TV sick or and gay

they forgot where they came from and who they are

I think the whole I am better then you cause I feel like a woman and I have boobs or silicone hips/butt is crazy

BEWARE THERE ARE SOME HOMOPHOBIC GAYS OUT THERE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaChXj0wjbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsVpdBIi1BU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjAVa9RAfWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzdwLdNvOzk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsVpdBIi1BU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjAVa9RAfWQ

[luscious]

Homophobic Men Most Aroused by Gay Male Porn
Homophobia Associated with Penis Arousal to Male on Male Sex
Published on June 9, 2011 by Nathan A. Heflick in The Big Questions

Even a man who thought that women want to have sex with their fathers and that women spend much of their lives distraught because they lack a penis is right sometimes. This person, the legend that is Sigmund Freud, theorized that people often have the most hateful and negative attitudes towards things they secretly crave, but feel that they shouldn't have.

If Freud is right, then perhaps men who are the most opposed to male homosexuality have particularly strong homosexual urges for other men.

One study asked heterosexal men how comfortable and anxious they are around gay men. Based on these scores, they then divided these men into two groups: men that are homophobic, and men who are not. These men were then shown three, four-minute videos. One video depicted straight sex, one depicted lesbian sex and one depicted gay male sex. While this was happening, a device was attached to each participant's penis. This device has been found to be triggered by sexual arousal, but not other types of arousal (such as nervousness, or fear - arousal often has a very different meaning in psychology than in popular usage).
Related Articles

Gay animals
Gay Men and Their Fathers: Hurt and Healing
Gay Guise: When Straight Men Have Sex With Other Men
Why bonobos will save the world
Explaining the Gay: A Swing and a Miss!





When viewing lesbian sex and straight sex, both the homophobic and the non-homophobic men showed increased penis circumference. For gay male sex, however, only the homophobic men showed heightened penis arousal.

Heterosexual men with the most anti-gay attitudes, when asked, reported not being sexually aroused by gay male sex videos. But, their penises reported otherwise.

Homophobic men were the most sexually aroused by gay male sex acts.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-big-questions/201106/homophobic-men-most-aroused-gay-male-porn

[sissystephanie]

Over on Reddit there was a recent discussion about RuPaul's shows being non-helpful for the trans community. Looking for it now I can't find it (of course), but it sparked an interesting thought process in my pea-brain.

The TG folks on Reddit (mostly TS, but still TG), do not seem to like drag queens as a general rule. There is some belief that drag queens are bad for transgender rights, almost as if queens are mocking us. I don't get this vibe at all from Drag Race, rather they talk a lot about LGTB-Q issues, sometimes bringing family into the story.

I feel like men dressing as women will spark controversy and bring about awareness to gender variance regardless of the motivation for doing so. The same is true of FTM individuals (of whom there are many on Reddit).

What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

Drag Queens and Drag Kings are only bad for the awareness and rights of the Transgendered community if YOU think they are! As far as I am concerned, I don't really concern myslef with them. I have known some Drag Queens in the past, and they were pretty nice people. Not really my type, but so what!

As CD's, we are all members of the TG community! But who cares!! What matters is who we are and what we do!! Labels don't mean squat!!

[Mythic]

I don't know enough about them but otherwise I've never felt they caused anything bad...

[whowhatwhen]

Isn't drag just performance art?
They don't have to represent anyone, they're performing an act for entertainment.

Sorry, but if someone's views on transpeople come from a drag show then what does that say about them?
Sane people base their opinions on facts and reason, others should be ignored since they don't even bother to do the proper research.

[MsJanessa]

One thing you should remember is that many TSs want to be fully accepted as ggs---and blend in with other women---most drag queens, on the other hand, like to stand out and draw attention to themselves--the effort is to look as glamorous as possible but not necessarily to pass. that being said, I'm in favor of everybody, including drag queens, expressing their feminine side--it does raise everybody's level of awareness

[noeleena]

Hi,

The people who are acting in a performance on stage are just that acting in line with what we are talking about ,& yes ill say they are good at it, where the difference comes in is most are men those iv seen & no they do not seek to be women they are over the top in dress colour & how they do things , i have no interest in them other than seeing them on stage, or did,

They do not represent me as a woman or any of my women friends & never will , so wheres the problem, i dont see one go back to the ww 2 we had our men act for the troops entertinment ,

We need to look at the overall pic here, im not trans , so it does not have a bearing on myself , & those who are, are they so insecure that they can not just be who they are, so what if those.... other.... people do call names & throw insults whos the stronger person they that do it or those who know who they are in them selfs.

what makes a person stronger being a wimp & belittleing others or the one who lives thier own life & can walk on by with out a thought for them, i know whos very insecure, & its sure not this kid,

...noeleena...

[mikiSJ]

My thoughts are that drag queens are who most people see first and many of those mostly male individuals tend to be repulsed, if not also perversely amused, by the 'over the top' appearance of the performers. These first impressions stay and when some of these individuals meet someone who is CD/TG/TS they find it difficult to see the difference between the stage act and those who are trying to fit into a real life situation.

I enjoy drag performances along with my wife. It took my wife a couple of years to understand that I like to dress as a lady, not as a drag queen.

Miki

[Frédérique]

Over on Reddit there was a recent discussion about RuPaul's shows being non-helpful for the trans community. What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

I think this is the “face” of MtF crossdressing that TV presents to everyone, and you need to think WHY that is, or who is manipulating visibility in this manner. I was watching LOGO one night, and I saw a commercial (a promo) for RuPaul’s Drag Race All Stars, which consisted of a series of hideous, bizarre creatures, one after the other, visually SCREAMING for attention. I would have been appalled, but I know what’s going on, and it has nothing to do with my branch of MtF crossdressing...

Unfortunately, this is what people get to see, and it makes any understanding or…ahem…acceptance that much more difficult to achieve, if the latter is important to one’s existence. When people see drag types jockeying for attention to win ridiculous “acclaim,” how can anyone possibly appreciate my need for privacy, secrecy, beauty, and self-respect? If RuPaul’s world beckons someone to explore the CD/TG world, I don’t see any harm in it, but if “drag” is the only ongoing visible face of MtF crossdressing then we, as a community, are being misrepresented BIG time…

BTW, I’ve never heard of a drag KING… :idontknow:

[Mythic]

This discussion does remind me of a situation I may have mentioned on the boards a long time ago but am not sure. A gay friend/coworker of my sister has been known to crossdress. Like in a gay parade he bought a dress specifically for the event. But from what I understand he doesn't do it for the enjoyment, or desire but because he believes he should cause he's gay. And I don't like when people fule these stereotypes. For instance I once had a classmate assume I was gay/bi because I once refered to myself as madam jokingly. I then explained to her gender identity an sexuality are 2 seperate things, and it took alot of convincing. This was before I had an interest in cding but even then I didn't like the assuptions being formed. Although I have nothing against people of alternative sexualities I just see everyone who cd's being linked to this. And we are all different.

[ReineD]

Sorry, but if someone's views on transpeople come from a drag show then what does that say about them?
Sane people base their opinions on facts and reason, others should be ignored since they don't even bother to do the proper research.

The problem is that most people don't get to see the facts. Their only information about men who wish to present in a gender opposite than birth often comes from DQs, and this is why so many people believe that most CDers are gay and they dress in order to attract men. This presents a problem for the married CDers who just need to dress in order to express an innate femininity.

[Sally24]

Many of the original drag queens in the 50's and 60's were TS trying to find a way to express themselves and be employed. Even today it's not unusual to find the more realistic DQ are TG or TS. If they have had body modifications then that's a big clue.

I think the over the top ones have as much in common with a crossdresser as does a Vegas show girl with your average house wife. If someone wants to assume that all DQs are gay and that they have anything in common with transgendered people then they are simply uniformed. I don't think they are bad for us but I don't think they help us much either.

[Beverley Sims]

The person doing drag shows does it for the art of impersonation.
The cross dresser dresses to gain pleasure out of the past time.
The trans sexual is there due to a mind/body mix up that occurred early in life or at birth.
There is a crossover here, the drag queen was probably interested in cross dressing and wished to become an actor and enter show business.
Body enhancements come with the game as most good ones are so competitive and would scratch the other one's eyes out to gain success on the stage.
There are those that are sympathetic towards other peoples dressing habits and there are gay drag queens.
Gay people are all there throughout the acting spectrum. It also compliments the acting game. (Theatrically Articulate.) Copyright Beverley Sims...Years ago.
Those that do not understand or are pompous cretins will want to scratch your eyes out as well.
Remember there is a gulf between those transitioning and those that just love to dress girly.
Interests in all three sections of humanity are so different.
One wants to be a success on stage.
The other is on medication that is messing with her mind (usually for years).
And the the third uses it as a recreational activity.
Gee! I hope I don't cause an argument, my nails are not long enough at the moment and my wig falls off easily. :)

[NicoleScott]

What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

That's not their mission. They are entertainers and get paid for what they do. Apparently enough people like that entertainment to support it. Let's see how they dress and make up when the money stops coming in.

[whowhatwhen]

The problem is that most people don't get to see the facts. Their only information about men who wish to present in a gender opposite than birth often comes from DQs, and this is why so many people believe that most CDers are gay and they dress in order to attract men. This presents a problem for the married CDers who just need to dress in order to express an innate femininity.

Yes, but why entertain them?
If they're so shallow as to form a concrete opinion of an entire group based on drag shows and you have difficulty educating them otherwise then why bother?

I really don't like the idea of drag queens (or anyone) having to change anything about themselves because someone else might get the wrong idea.
This is exactly along the same lines as thinking TG people shouldn't be having sex (or at least, shaming those who tape it) because it's "giving CDers a bad name and confusing our wives."

If someone wants to be a warrior for social justice then that's great, but not everyone wants to and neither should we expect them to.

[Darla]

I know this isn't the right forum, but has anyone asked the Drag performers if we're bad for their image? Ha! I'll answer for them and they'd say that we need to lighten up and get I've ourselves. I have nothing against drag performers or anything in that orbit - they're all sisters and I gladly welcome them to our merry group - the more the merrier. If they are decidedly gay then they understand the fear and isolation o not understanding who you are, and I'd they're drag performers they might have some great makeup tips.

What I disagree to is their depictions on reality TV. In fact I object to most reality tV. It's all so hyper dramatized it fits right into the stereotype of drag shows. There's a reason they show screeching harpies going after one another - it makes for ratings and panders to the lowest common denominator.

Now if they were to have a reality show about real TS's or crossdressers, it could be a real ratings monster if you include all the conflicts we have with our spouses and our own self-loathing!

Darla

[Violetgray]

I think this is the “face” of MtF crossdressing that TV presents to everyone, and you need to think WHY that is, or who is manipulating visibility in this manner. I was watching LOGO one night, and I saw a commercial (a promo) for RuPaul’s Drag Race All Stars, which consisted of a series of hideous, bizarre creatures, one after the other, visually SCREAMING for attention. I would have been appalled, but I know what’s going on, and it has nothing to do with my branch of MtF crossdressing...

Unfortunately, this is what people get to see, and it makes any understanding or…ahem…acceptance that much more difficult to achieve, if the latter is important to one’s existence. When people see drag types jockeying for attention to win ridiculous “acclaim,” how can anyone possibly appreciate my need for privacy, secrecy, beauty, and self-respect? If RuPaul’s world beckons someone to explore the CD/TG world, I don’t see any harm in it, but if “drag” is the only ongoing visible face of MtF crossdressing then we, as a community, are being misrepresented BIG time…

BTW, I’ve never heard of a drag KING… :idontknow:

I think it is quite a leap in logic to assume that watching an art designed for entertainment has a direct impact on other's rights to your privacy. And really? You would describe them as hideous? Why are they bizarre, because they're gay and wear women's clothing at the same time? As far as drag kings, finding this took about two seconds:

http://sdkingsclub.com/

[Desiree2bababe]

How can they be bad for awareness? They are always the hit of the parades!

[NicoleScott]

And really? You would describe them as hideous?

Hideous, like beauty (sorry for mixing nouns and adjectives) is in the eye of the beholder. I like beauty, and I guess I like hideous, too.

[michelle64]

reinforce typical sterotype that all CD's are gay..but even i must admit they would enliven any boring party

[I Am Paula]

Personally, I love drag queens. I know a few, and most of them never wear women's clothing offstage. Drag is an art form, and just plain entertainment. Saying a drag queen is bad for transgender rights is like saying a Rubens painting is bad for plump girls, or a western movie is bad for cowboys. You can group drag queens with say...James Bond, or Bruce Springstien. You shouldn't group them with militant transexuals, or trans rights lobbyists.

[Tina B.]

Drag queens are bad for our image, just like gays are bad for the image of straights! Apples and oranges!
Drag queen, gay Crossdresser, or straight Crossdresser, ain't my business, you wear your dress your way, and I'll wear mine my way.
Most people don't spend that much time thinking about Crossdressers, or drag queens, it's not part of their world.
Don't rob banks, rape, or beat people up, and someday they may not see us as being all that different, I don't care why you wear a dress, if you wear one, your crossdressing, just like the rest of us. There must be something in side a Drag Queen that makes her want to don a dress even for work, after all many gays find a lot of other ways to make a good living, why choice that way unless it means something to you.
I've never known one personally, But I have talked with a few female impersonators, and I didn't see them all that different from armature's.
Tina B.

[whowhatwhen]

Another thing to keep in mind:

Would you stop crossdressing because some women find it to be demeaning?

[ReineD]

Yes, but why entertain them?
If they're so shallow as to form a concrete opinion of an entire group based on drag shows and you have difficulty educating them otherwise then why bother?

Because they don't know enough to know any better. Most people do not know any CDs/TGs/TSs.

And I'm not suggesting that DQs should stop being DQs, just offering an explanation as to why they help to reinforce the notion that all CDers must be gay, simply because they are the most visible segment of the gay/trans community. People normally associate DQs with gay pride parades.

The antidote is to have more comprehensive gender and sexual education in schools.

[Angela Campbell]

I kind of think drag queens are to us kind of like what Lady Gaga is to GG's. A bit of an overdone exageration for entertainment purposes.

[Foxglove]

I'm fairly neutral on drag queens. Do they make me look bad? I do a better job of that than they ever could.

Do they help "our cause"? I don't really think so. The general public may misunderstand us transpeople, but I don't think we should blame drag queens for that. Even if there weren't any of them, the general public would still find ways to misunderstand us. A lot of people aren't too keen on informing themselves on this and that.

Annabelle

[Lynn Marie]

I know and like a number of Drag Queens. They see themselves as performers and often dress way over the top as part of the show. Hey, a lot of CDer's dress way over the top in a ****ty sort of way too! I'm really not all that overjoyed with either group as my style is more classy and understated, with just a hint of bling for color!

I do wish DQ's would actually do their own singing and entertaining rather than just lip-syncing and dancing. Then I might be more liable to watch and be entertained. That said, I have seen a few DQ's who dress wonderfully and can put a fashion model to shame with their ability in heels. Just a few though.

[Kate Simmons]

DQ's and DK's don't have a stake in the TG/TS community. They look at what they do as a form of art expression and it is really. This is where true tolerance comes in and why we enjoy our rights and freedoms.:battingeyelashes::)

[Michelle V]

Hell NO,
They are not bad for anyone exploring their inner femininity male or female. Yes they are loud an flamboyan they are very much out there but that is their job, they are entertainers but that is secondary to their need to express thier femenine side, I for one am happy that there are people in the public eye that have the cojones to go out and represent our community, whether TS, TG, or just CD they are showing their humanity by presenting themselves as males and as females. I don't know how many follow the shows, I was skeptical at first the men in me disliked how flamboyan and exagerated they are, but then I got to know the different personalities of the contestants and found them to be very normal and appealing, they talk about their struggles and their personal lives and somehow people can understand where they come from and kind of relate to their struggle. I had my wife watch the shows, first Drag U, and then Drag Race, and now it is our favorite shows. I feel like it shows those outside our community how normal we really are, we are not freaks or perverts we just enjoy being men with a very strong femenine side that needs to come out from time to time.

I say we support those who represent our community in a positive light, unlike those who appear on trashy talk shows like Jerry Springer. In my household RuPaul and LOGO have our full support, any network or forum like this who give us a voice and a place to be ourselves deserves our patronage and support.

[Celeste]

I think to improve public perception people need to see serious people...not a bunch of kids playing with "exaggerated" makeup.I can't see how anyone can benefit from the program,unless they are a DQ themselves .I'm sorry but I found it incredibly boring.

[Violetgray]

I think to improve public perception people need to see serious people...not a bunch of kids playing with "exaggerated" makeup.I can't see how anyone can benefit from the program,unless they are a DQ themselves .I'm sorry but I found it incredibly boring.

Simple, it's easier to hate a concept. When you see that concept (drag queen) talk, eat, sleep, share their goals and desires it humanizes them, and they become less of an archetype and more of a human being.

[GeminaRenee]

Well, I suppose it's only natural that the general population is going to form its opinion of us based on what they see. To form ideas about trans-folk based on the image that DQs present is of course going to be misleading. But unless we somehow represent ourselves to the outside world for what we are, can we really blame them for the misunderstanding? Of course, since a great many of us aren't seeking attention, that could be a difficult proposition. Still, we need some kind of representation. Otherwise we run the risk of continuing the be judged like the crusty-creepy old hermit-y guy in Home Alone - we might be great at heart, but no-one would know it because people rarely have any exposure to or interaction with us. Instead, they see Ru-Paul and make judgements based on that. Hard to blame someone when that's all they know, I guess.

[kellycan27]

I don't have an issue with RuPaul's drag queens, But on more than a few ocassions I have cringed at some some of the antics I have seen demonstrated at some of the Pride Parades.

[flatlander_48]

Looking at the bigger picture, it's not like we have numbers to spare. We ALL need to be inside the tent: lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transgender, et al. There is strength in unity. It would serve no purpose to separate ourselves from one another and run the risk of something like: "I'm OK with those gays; it's those f+++in' bisexuals you have to watch out for.".

[RebeccaLynne]

The TG folks on Reddit (mostly TS, but still TG), do not seem to like drag queens as a general rule. There is some belief that drag queens are bad for transgender rights, almost as if queens are mocking us. I don't get this vibe at all from Drag Race, rather they talk a lot about LGTB-Q issues, sometimes bringing family into the story.

I feel like men dressing as women will spark controversy and bring about awareness to gender variance regardless of the motivation for doing so. The same is true of FTM individuals (of whom there are many on Reddit).

What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

My thoughts are... I really enjoy Ru Paul's Drag Race, and appreciate the effort the contestants put into presenting as someone other than their birth gender.

Isn't that our intention, as crossdressers? Whether we present in public, or enjoy that presentation privately, we're making a statement. We refuse to be restricted or restrained.

I applaud everyone willing to breach the gender boundaries, whatever their motivation. :thumbsup:

[Saffron]

Close mind people are the only one who is damaging us.

[ElleduSud]

Another thing to keep in mind:

Would you stop crossdressing because some women find it to be demeaning?

Is no answer an answer of "No"?

[Samantha B L]

I identify as a drag queen and a transvestite. I have dozens of freinds who are drag queens and transvestites. I do think in recent years many people are getting the message that crossdressers are often not gay. I have a whole slew of crossdresser freinds and they are wonderful. But as far as drag queens being demeaning to transgender and LGBT culture. Drag queens and transvestites are among the first to really get in there and punch back,so to speak,when people who want to bash transgender people or throw rotten tomatoes,rocks and glass bottles at us! There is an article with pics about me in the July/August issue of the UK magazine Frock. OK,so drag queens are sarcastic and their humor is suggestive. So is everybody else! On the whole the world ain't a bad place,but it is very chaotic and you may as well put the instruction booklet back in the drawer.

[Josie M]

I guess I have concerns (as others have echo'd here) that some will equate Drag with being TG. That's not the fault the drag performers though. Drag is just an art form, the solution, as Reine said, is eduation. That being said, and because it is performance art, I kind of wish references like the Gender Book (http://www.thegenderbook.com) did not include Drag as part of the TG umbrella as I think it adds to the confusion.

[JamieG]

I believe that two of Ru's former contestants have come out as TS since the show, so I'm not sure how you can accuse them all of being anti-TG.

Although drag queens have a reputation for being huge divas, I recently attended a drag show hosted by Latrice Royale at a Pride event. There were a lot of children in the audience, and it was so sweet the way the queens reacted when the children brought them tips. They would give the children hugs and high five, and act so humble. Honestly, I misted up a little bit just watching it.

[Asche]

Back in the day (in the 70's and early 80's), we would have been having a different discussion about Drag Queens. Back then, they were the public image of gay men (cf.: La Cage Aux Folles.) Back then, it was the gay men who were complaining about how Drag Queens gave gay men a bad name.

What it took to change the public's equation of "gay man" with "drag queen" (and pedophile :( ) was gay men -- lots of gay men -- "coming out" and showing the world, especially the people who knew them personally, that they weren't all that different from straight men. (Unfortunately it took the AIDS epidemic to convince a critical mass of gay men to do so, at least in the USA.)

The lesson is obvious, as is the dilemma that faces closeted (and even un-closeted) CDs: only through the personal sacrifice of lots of people will things be changed, but no decent person can demand that sacrifice from another. I have no answer for this.

[Renee_B]

Honestly if not for Drag Queens I wouldn't have know how to express the feelings inside me. I believe the knowledge and awareness are power.. they gave me that

[Claire_tv_uk]

this site is a community of people seemingly longing for acceptance, it would be shamefull if there was people on here happy to criticise another community without realising the irony of that.

[Sophie_C]

Yeah, I think they're pretty terrible. Their look is a PARODY of what women look like, with that terrible, whited-out makeup not matching their skin tone, lip syncing and pagentry that was from the 50s, it basically MOCKS what we are like. It's especially bad for those who are transgendered, way more than just crossdressers, since it confuses the public about the whole lot, and just makes them think it's simply a "gay" thing. Thank God more girls are transitioning young so the public is finally getting the distinction, but I'd rather the whole drag queen thing fade into oblivion. Besides, most gays these days aren't a fan of it themselves, and only go to it out of obligation.

[whowhatwhen]

Yeah, I think they're pretty terrible. Their look is a PARODY of what women look like, with that terrible, whited-out makeup not matching their skin tone, lip syncing and pagentry that was from the 50s, it basically MOCKS what we are like. It's especially bad for those who are transgendered, way more than just crossdressers, since it confuses the public about the whole lot, and just makes them think it's simply a "gay" thing. Thank God more girls are transitioning young so the public is finally getting the distinction, but I'd rather the whole drag queen thing fade into oblivion. Besides, most gays these days aren't a fan of it themselves, and only go to it out of obligation.


this site is a community of people seemingly longing for acceptance, it would be shamefull if there was people on here happy to criticise another community without realising the irony of that.

Acceptance only counts if it's for what you're doing.

That's okay though, because the drag queens will continue to go out, perform, and have fun while not caring what anyone thinks of them.
They have balls, and for that I admire and respect them.

But please, everyone, tell me when you're going to stop crossdressing out of respect to all of those GGs who think it's disrespectful and a parody of women.

[Jamie Ann]

Over on Reddit there was a recent discussion about RuPaul's shows being non-helpful for the trans community. Looking for it now I can't find it (of course), but it sparked an interesting thought process in my pea-brain.

The TG folks on Reddit (mostly TS, but still TG), do not seem to like drag queens as a general rule. There is some belief that drag queens are bad for transgender rights, almost as if queens are mocking us. I don't get this vibe at all from Drag Race, rather they talk a lot about LGTB-Q issues, sometimes bringing family into the story.

I feel like men dressing as women will spark controversy and bring about awareness to gender variance regardless of the motivation for doing so. The same is true of FTM individuals (of whom there are many on Reddit).

What do you all think? Are queens and kings bad for awareness and rights of the transgendered community?

I don't think that drag queens are bad for the transgender communities. On the other hand, I don’t think that they are very beneficial, either. The comedian, Jack Benny, had a drag persona that was part of his comedy acts from 1932 through 1965. If people being aware of drag performers would provide much impetus for progress more generally, then it would have done so during that period. Most people, according to others’ analyses, enjoyed the entertainment, but did not take it very seriously. It was good for a laugh.

On the serious subjects of non-discrimination laws and hate-crime laws, drag queens are mostly irrelevant. Transsexuals are VERY relevant, as they want to go to work in their genders of choice. Part-time crossdressers fall somewhere in between. Most of us don’t want to go to work dressed as women, but we do want some of the extra security non-discrimination laws and hate-crime laws provide. Drag queens do their thing in protected settings; we are more likely to go to a variety of public settings (restaurants, etc.) where discrimination and crime are potential dangers. (We can minimize those dangers, however, by going out in groups rather than as isolated individuals.)

Drag queens are part of our communities, and that is good; but they are not likely to win over the hearts and minds of the general public. We need that; and transsexuals need it even more.

[Sophie_C]

Acceptance only counts if it's for what you're doing.

That's okay though, because the drag queens will continue to go out, perform, and have fun while not caring what anyone thinks of them.
They have balls, and for that I admire and respect them.

But please, everyone, tell me when you're going to stop crossdressing out of respect to all of those GGs who think it's disrespectful and a parody of women.

Look, if Drag Queens didn't have their DRAG look, I'd be saying nothing here.

Parody:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YfC3F5IT-S4/SbtLnDD7KuI/AAAAAAAAAzA/4UCvrnvMR7M/s400/dragqueen8.jpg

No Parody:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/429532_333505353362611_738408772_n.jpg

Don't pretend there's no difference. :Pullhair:

And, yes, they've got tons of BALLS, as the men they are. Damn the consequences to US, they don't care!! :(

[Lorileah]

In the minds of everyday people the whole TG world is divided into little boxes. These boxes are what you see and hear about in the media. No different than any other minority. Unfortunately the over emotional and bratty DQ is a symbol many people see for our community. When you say "crossdresser" to the regular Joe on the street what three images do they get? Queens (because of people who really were not queens like Milton Beryle and Flip Wilson and hundreds of other actors), Transsexuals (because as we all know every TG wants a sex change right?) and people who dress for sexual reasons. We all know here that they are the minority. But in the general world that is who gets the press (and the moron who thinks that dressing as a woman is a good idea for robbing a bank).

Are the RuPaul stars good ambassadors? Probably not but as someone once said "Just spell my name right". It does give us a gateway to discuss the issue with people if we want to. Trouble is that the majority, even here, don't want to even talk about it. I don't think the talent on RuPaul have an agenda against "us". They have an agenda for them. The idea is to make money and be famous. Can't blame them for that

[whowhatwhen]

They don't have to be ambassadors though, they're living their life as they want and having fun doing it.
The idea that every minority needs to be pure as the driven snow and act like the straight-cisgender society expects is ludicrous.

The picture you posted is exaggerated, but then again some GGs go for an exaggerated look as well.
Are they parodying themselves or are only women allowed to go for that kind of look?

I cannot believe that we're making a minority group within a minority group.