Dealing with jokes

[Kerstin]

I guess many of us have been in situations where we've been with a group of people and someone makes 'tranny' jokes or says something derogatory about transgendered people. I'm not a humorless Buzz Killington and can take a joke, but because 'tranny' comments strike at the heart of who I am as a person I don't mind admitting that sometimes it irritates me. I say sometimes because it's not always malicious, and appreciate that some jokes can be good natured.

Because I haven't yet revealed my transgender identity to the whole world it's sometimes difficult for me to voice any sort of objection or to stick up for the transgendered person being joked about without the fear of drawing suspicion upon myself. If I was 'out' it would be different, but because I'm not I sometimes find myself staying silent when I really feel like I want to say something.

What do you do in similar situations? Laugh along with them, stay silent, speak your mind or something else?

[Kate Simmons]

When people joke about individuals or groups or talk about them in a derogatory manner, they are usually attempting to compensate for some personal(or perceived) inadequacy. Your reaction is up to you but you need to consider the source.:)

[STACY B]

Just wait ,,, BEFORE u Know they will be talking bout u ,,,lol,,,So if I here a tranny joke I do laugh cuz I just think they ment It towards me ,,LOL,,,, I got jokes too ,,, So don't Bite off more than you care to chew ,,LOL,,, Cuz I like to Fancy myself a Quik witted Tongue Lasher ,,, So all I can say is GET SOME ,, Lets PLAY !!!

[Launa]

I always look at everbody in the eye in these situations with no emotion and then look the other way to show them I'm not interested in their humor. I don't speak my mind but my body language lets them know that they aren't funny and if they keep it up I just walk away.

[Angela Campbell]

I either don't say much or if watching a tv show with a cd or tran on it I might say ...she looks pretty much like a girl. or she doesn't .....sometimes I will even say she's pretty...Depends on who is there with me. If it is people who are really insulting about the subject I will usually stay silent and make a note not to hang around them much anymore.

[Tracii G]

If the person telling the joke is a friend I assume its directed towards me and I come back with a line about their Momma.

If I am in a group and someone expresses disregard for or makes jokes about a trans person I will speak up for the trans person.
Usually I will say you are free to be the way you are how about letting them do the same thing you jerk!
Done it plenty of times on FB too.

[linda allen]

We have to deal with all kinds of people in life and we have to overlook some of their flaws (flaws in our minds). I run into people who make race jokes and even though I am not of that particular race, the jokes are usually offensive to me. I haven't really hear a lot of CD or TG jokes, but I sometimes hear stories that offend me to some extent.

I just ignore them and carry on. It's not going to help for me to try to change them so I just set a good example.

[Sally24]

I almost always speak my mind. Just ask my wife!:heehee:

[bridget thronton]

I ignore - unless it is a student in my class then I must make a comment to let them know that is not acceptable - I do not tell those jokes studewnts tend copy the behavior I model for them

[MsRenee]

People like that I try to ignore cause kost of them I dont think have any idea about what there saying. Now if they knew someone that was they would have a different outlook on it I think.
Renee

[FeliciaCDSNJ]

Those jokes get on My nerves but I try not to show it, still closeted, but I try to put on a "face" and laugh. Though I wonder how funny it will be to my "friends" when they find out I'm transgendered. Needless to say, those jokes I really don't put up with.

[reb.femme]

My brother was recounting a story from the local paper of a person who had had their windows stoned by kids. In my brothers words, "what did he expect, he's a ******* tranny"? i asked why that seemed to be a legitimate reason, but as with most people and I include much of my own family here, you cannot put sense where there is no room for it. I think the best answer is pick your arguments wisely, you can't win them all, and just have less to do with those types. I'm all in for education and I certainly love an argument but as Kate said, you need to consider the source.

So all in, 'Tranny' gags don't personally irritate me, but malicious crap like the window bit above does.

Reb

[Lorileah]

Interesting. I belong to a club that in its mission statement says they are for "civil" rights and equality. Yet they joke about women and ethic groups and...yes transgendered people. They don't joke about 50+ year old Hispanic males though...because that would be them. Many even know about me and still tell gay tranny jokes....ha ha. I just look at them like they are the biggest box of rocks I know. Truth is, what they usually say isn't funny even if it wasn't hitting close to home.

I just think of the song from AvenueQ Everyone's a little bit racist.

RovF1zsDoeM

[Barbara Ella]

I will at most give a wry smile, no laugh, no recognition or participation. A mental note to minimize discussion with that or those individuals whenever possible. My feeling of these people and people who dish dirt behind someone's back is that if they will say this about that individual, imagine what they will say about you.

Barbara

[GaleWarning]

I look at the motivation behind the joke before getting excited.
Do we tell Irish jokes to denigrate the Irish, or Jewish jokes to denigrate the Jews, for example?
I once knew a Jewish man who told the very best Jewish jokes because he could understand that they WERE funny.

I come from South Africa.
Here in NZ, an Iranian work colleague begged me to tell him a racist South African joke.
For several months, I refused to do so (I am an avowed anti-racist!)
Eventually I agreed to tell him such a joke.
I had two to choose from, which are particularly denigrating.
So I chose one of them and told it to him.
When I got to the punch line, he looked at me quizzically ....
"I don't get it"' he said.
Exactly! Only those whom it is truly meant to offend will understand that it is meant to be offensive.

PC people fail to differentiate between truly satirical and funny jokes, and crass ones.

Reminds me of the single mother who went along to the local WINZ office to discuss her benefit ....

(No, someone might get offended, Clayfish ....)

Is this not censorship?

My mind is in a whirl .....

[Pexetta]

Usually I always speak my mind in these situations, though I'm still saying things like 'They are not perverts' rather than 'We are not perverts.'

The one exception recently has been when I joined a Quaker LBG group on Facebook and found that the timeline was dotted with 'humorous' transphobic pictures. I was genuinely shocked to find that they thought like that, and I just left the group rather than starting a fight, which would just have got me thrown out anyway.

[Annie D]

I think a joke is a joke and I think we can all find some humor in any situation even if it is about one of us. Good grief, we all enjoy something funny that one of us has done or tried to do. But a comment made in the attempt to be funny that is derogatory, a put down or degrading about anyone or any circumstance has no place and should not be acceptable. I think that each of us needs to take a stand about this kind of behavior; not only comments about crossdressers, transgenders, gays, minorities in every way should be met with:

" I find that comment to be hurtful and cruel and I can't accept that type of bigotry. I will no longer remain silent when I hear something said that I find offensive about another human being. I respect that you have the freedom to express your own opinion but I have the freedom to express mine as well. My mother once told me that silence was a sign of acceptance and I can no longer remain silent."

Sorry, as a public school educator I do not support "bullying" and verbal abuse is one of the cruelest forms of bullying that I witness.

[Meghan]

I guess many of us have been in situations where we've been with a group of people and someone makes 'tranny' jokes or says something derogatory about transgendered people. I'm not a humorless Buzz Killington and can take a joke, but because 'tranny' comments strike at the heart of who I am as a person I don't mind admitting that sometimes it irritates me. I say sometimes because it's not always malicious, and appreciate that some jokes can be good natured.

...

What do you do in similar situations? Laugh along with them, stay silent, speak your mind or something else?

Fabulous question. I do not laugh or say anything directly related to the so-called joke, but I make it a point to work my point of view in with a fact or a question.

For example, I might ask a serious question like "I wonder how wide the spectrum is" or make a serious enough reply to make people think, like "yeah if you think that's bad, you should see me on Saturdays"!

Usually though this is only something that comes up at work. I don't have any friends who would joke like that, but then again I don't really have any "guy" friends. All of my friends are women, with the exception of one man who is my age and is always invited to girls night :)

Meghan

[Tina B.]

For me, it's easy, I'm known as a flaming liberal, I speak up to raciest, homophob's and transphob's, so no one is surprized, or thinks I'm including myself in that defense. I love a joke, where everyone gets to laugh, I have no use for humor that demeans anyone, anyway.
Tina B.

[Mythic]

I'm really into stand up comedy so I love jokes(good ones), but even though I'm not out yet I do let people know I support transgenderd people. So if someone is just being rude I let them know I get offended. Same with gay jokes or racist ones. There are good ones, an some that just make you an ***.

[sonna]

(1) ignore the joke (2) change the subject (3) get on with life.

and you can do it in that order.

[mirandacdgirl]

one of my co-workers was making statements like.. people are born in the wrong bodies.. etc.. I just ignored him .. he kept going so i replied.. with.. if it makes them happy .. why does it bother you. Its not like they are intruding on your life.. let people be who they want... he shut up after that.

[Diane Maple]

So, for me I learned as a teen that some people just aren't worth my time and some... some just don't get that they are being rude because someone they know is an b head and it just rubs off on them.

So, I like to just point out in a calm mature manner how rude they are being. Best if you can do it with a quip to make them look totally bad...
Sure, you may be a buzz killer but, really... they have already killed any buzz you had going ... your already upset.
People need to know when they are being offensive. Or they will just keep doing it.

[Bree-asaurus]

"What's your problem with trannies? You compensating for something? Like all those anti-gay activists that turn out to be secretly gay?"

"I know (or used to know) a crossdresser/tranny. They were normal people like you and me. What ever floats your boat if you ask me"

I would NEVER laugh along side them. It's the ones who do laugh, the ones to who make fun and bully that have their own insecurities about the subject. Don't be that guy/girl.

But I'm out... so I defend anyway.

[Beverley Sims]

Depending on the mood of the group I will probably throw in my 30 pieces of silver.

A rewrite here...
If it is a debilitating joke I will defend the people made fun of.
If it is genuinely funny I will laugh and if not I will remain silent.
Remember it is a group I am not out to yet.

[ReineD]

Because I haven't yet revealed my transgender identity to the whole world it's sometimes difficult for me to voice any sort of objection or to stick up for the transgendered person being joked about without the fear of drawing suspicion upon myself. If I was 'out' it would be different, but because I'm not I sometimes find myself staying silent when I really feel like I want to say something.

You don't have to out yourself to defend anyone's right to be who they are and to live free of bigotry, even if it is masked by a joke. :)

I've never enjoyed jokes that abase other people.

[Amanda_P]

There are jokes about everything and everyone. I look at it as just another joke. I'm sure all of us makes a joke about something now and then. Does that make it right or wrong. If we never laughed it would be a very boring world. Best advice I ever heard. Don't take life to serious, You'll never get out alive. If it's a funny joke I laugh if not I don't.

[GaleWarning]

Stand-up comedians, comediennes and cartoonists are often the only ones who can get away with mocking people who and prejudices which deserve to be mocked.
Google Pieter-Dirk Uys to find out how this crossdressing comic and his alter-ego, Evita Bezuidenhout, were thorns in the side of the Apartheid politicians.
So .... you will probably agree that in this case at least (and also in Barry Humphries'?) it is acceptable for a crossdresser to take the mickey out of racists and other bigots.
So why then should we get all self-righteous about jokes taking the mickey out of us? There are bigots in our ranks, you know.

Once again, I seem to be a member of a small minority on this forum who see things differently and will not be one-eyed.

[Chickhe]

a few strategies... ask them why they are so fixated on the subject? ...respond with a positive comment, like ...I haven't met any that are like that... or...mention something about, their mothers not teaching them not to talk about people behind their backs and say you believe anything you say should be able to be said in front of that person and change the subject.

[ReineD]

There are jokes about everything and everyone. I look at it as just another joke. I'm sure all of us makes a joke about something now and then. Does that make it right or wrong.

I think it makes it wrong, if the joke puts down or makes fun of someone else in a deprecating way, usually a minority. There are lots of ways to be funny without abasing someone else. A measure for good jokes, is to ask if the person being made fun of was in the room, would he or she laugh? Or if the person was in the room, would the joke be told out loud?

My native language is French and there have been many jokes about the French. I am also a GG and there are tons of jokes about women, particularly dumb blondes. I laugh at these because I do not feel I am a minority that is habitually discriminated against in a particularly bigoted manner. The jokes are good natured and I don't feel as if the people telling them have anything against the French or women. But a black person during the 1960s would not have laughed at racially offensive jokes directed at blacks. Nor does a CDer enjoy hearing his friends deprecate people who are like him.

[Amanda_P]

But a black person during the 1960s would not have laughed at racially offensive jokes directed at blacks

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of a comedian named Richard Pryor. In the 60s and 70s he made is big as being the first comedian to do jokes like that. Now they all do.

[GaleWarning]

But a black person during the 1960s would not have laughed at the racially offensive jokes directed at blacks

There is an hilariously funny "Not the 9 o'clock News" skit which features a white police constable in the UK being dressed down by his superior for continuously arresting the same black man. His stated reasons for doing so highlight his extreme bigotry. Would a black man find this offensive if he could see that the ulmimate purpose of the skit was to draw attention to this kind of bigotry (which undoubtedly existed in the constabulary at the time) in order to bring it to an end? I don't think so.

[Ressie]

Crossdressing is so unknown and foreign to some people and they don't understand why anyone would do it. I haven't heard any tranny jokes, but I've heard negative comments. Years ago I was with a group of people in a bar and a woman asked about a TS that had been seen in town recently. She asked, "why does he dress like that? If hes' gay, why can't he just be gay?" I responded that there are different cases but didn't get into any details. If I got more specific the entire group would have wondered why I know so much about it! And subsequently someone would have put me on the spot.

[ChelseaErtel]

First, Stacy B you just crack me up. If I need a lift, I look for your posts - you are a riot.

Since this if my first weekend full time girl, I expected some jokes, comments, or stares. I didn't see or hear any, could have happened but I found out it doesn't matter. Hate Crimes aside, I would dismiss it, or reply with something witty if possible. If, for example, someone asked if I was a man, I'd tell them that I used to be but wore it out. But I have found that even it people recognize you as a "transgender" person, they just dismiss it and move on.

Now responding can be tricky depending on where you are, so caution is in order. So to answer your question - it all depends. Don't you hate that type of answer?

[Angela Campbell]

It is strange but I have heard many GG's including my recent ex wife say really insulting things about crossdressers and gays, but then the same ones always seem to buddy up to the gay men at work. My ex would see a gay man on tv and say "thats disgusting" and then a few minutes later go into a story about the gay guy at work and how cute he looks with his boyfriend.....I just do not understand. I never came out to her because of the statements she made about crossdressers or transexuals when she saw one on tv.

[Lorileah]

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of a comedian named Richard Pryor. In the 60s and 70s he made is big as being the first comedian to do jokes like that. Now they all do.

he is way behind the curve, Red Foxx was before him and will bet there are others I cannot think of right now.

But does it make it right? I find that many who do comedy like this are just out for the shock value. Others are very adept at making it actually funny to laugh along with yourself. And when using strong offensive wording makes it less funny and actually makes it offensive. Yes I get the "own it" attitude when it comes to words. I still believe that some words have become so offensive that they should just go away.

Live and learn though. I grew up telling Italian jokes and Polish jokes and Sven and Ollie stories (it was where I grew up, lots of Germans who of course had to denigrate ((Thanks Clayfish for that word)) others because after all we ARE the master race...right?). It did not take long in the military to hear those same jokes applied to Blacks, Jews and OMG Germans! So I kept the stories and inserted words like "moron" and then recently was chastised by someone who found the story offensive to...morons.

[Bree-asaurus]

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of a comedian named Richard Pryor. In the 60s and 70s he made is big as being the first comedian to do jokes like that. Now they all do.

Umm... a black person making light of THEIR issues is one thing. I don't think Richard Pryor would have laughed at a biggoted white guy making fun of black people.

By the same token, it's okay for trannies and tranny supporters to joke, but that doesn't make it okay for biggoted non-trannies to make fun of us.

It depends on where the joker's heart is.

[ReineD]

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of a comedian named Richard Pryor. In the 60s and 70s he made is big as being the first comedian to do jokes like that. Now they all do.

There's a difference between finding an artful way to laugh at yourself, and putting down an entirely different race than yourself, as if you are superior to it. This is why Richard Pryor was successful with his jokes. You know looking at him, and listening to him, that he did not dislike his own race.

People who make deprecating jokes about CDers do so because they feel the CDers are under-par. This is why these jokes are not funny, except to people who are just as bigoted or the CDers themselves who suffer from internalized transphobia.

Some jokes about CDers are very good! Have you seen Jessica Who's videos? But, they're funny because Jessica is a CDer and she is talking about people like herself! She presents a CDer's plight in a humorous way and she doesn't laugh at them as though they are disgusting. THIS is the difference.

The OP mentioned hearing jokes about CDers that disturbed him. I'll bet my bottom dollar these jokes made CDers out to be either perverted, weak, sub-par somehow, or they made them out to be homosexual which is another minority that gets slammed a lot in a bigoted manner.

[Stephanie47]

I really had to think before responding to this thread. In recent memory I cannot recall hearing jokes about sexuality outside of the occasional cable program I may be watching. What I have increasingly heard is outright hostility against all minorities without regard to race, creed, color, nationality and sexuality. I ascribe this increase to the fact more and more minorities of all segments of society are asserting their rights and protections and are tired of the bigotry and bias behavior in society. In some respects I think this has been brought on because a mixed race man has been elected President of the United States. These bigots are threatened because they are losing their power. One way to retain power is to play one disadvantaged group off against another.

If you look at the list of groups the Nazis tried to expunge from society, it is not just limited to Jews. It was anyone and everyone not like them. Don't tolerate offensive jokes about ANYONE or ANY GROUP.

[Sally24]

I'm sorry but have you ever heard of a comedian named Richard Pryor. In the 60s and 70s he made is big as being the first comedian to do jokes like that. Now they all do.
That's like a big busted blonde telling blonde jokes. Not even the same thing we're talking about. And many blacks are not very keen on the term or the jokes anyway.

I find hurtful humor very low brow and just a veiled attempt at bigotry under the guise of humor. Never cared for it and I try to make a point of informing the perp that he's not funny....or very smart.

[GaleWarning]

Umm... a black person making light of THEIR issues is one thing. I don't think Richard Pryor would have laughed at a biggoted white guy making fun of black people.

By the same token, it's okay for trannies and tranny supporters to joke, but that doesn't make it okay for biggoted non-trannies to make fun of us.

It depends on where the joker's heart is.

And then there was a marvellous Maori comedian back in the 1990s who told the best Maori jokes ever.
His name was Billy T James.
He proved your point, Bree.
He died way too young.

Come to think of it, does anyone know the 12th man series?
This fellow takes off the renowned Australian cricketer and later commentator, Richie Benaud.
Ian Grieg, too.
I found the skit where he tries to pronounce the names of the Sri Lankan cricket team members very funny.

[Megan Briana]

It depends on who is saying the joke. If its one of my homophobic family members, then I will guard my territory in a subtle fashion (they dont know I cd). If its my friend that knows I do cd, I take it with a good heart. She may tease me for cd, but I know she cares so I will come back with a lil joke on her. I do believe she has somewhat of a wrong idea about me. I think she equates crossdressing with being gay. SHe has made a few remarks in that direction. I will usually come back with something like, "I'm not gay. Do I have to sleep with you again to prove it? I will! Just give me a sec while I change out of my dress." We laugh. We have known each other for nearly twenty years and we do have a past together. My cd wont change anything here. In many ways, She would make me a great wife, and lol I could do the same for her. ... Dont tell her I said that though lol

[Eryn]

I forget who said it, but the saying is "everyone can hit on their own group!"

Only those groups outside of society are fair game and unfortunately that includes the LGBT population, particularly the T part of it.

When I hear someone telling a "tranny joke" and I think that they can be reached I point out that they wouldn't make a similar joke about a woman, a black, or a disabled person.

[ReineD]

This always works for me: "I'm offended by jokes that abase others, and I'm wondering if [insert whoever the joke was about] was in this room, would you still tell it?

This is not usually something that the joke teller wants to hear, but hopefully it plants a seed in their mind for next time. Or, they'll continue and think that I'm an idiot. :p