Lesbians see me as "safe"

[sandra-leigh]

Thinking back tonight, I realized that the various lesbians I have known have mostly considered me to be "safe", someone they could relax somewhat around, that they could be lesbian around without having to keep their guard up, someone trustable in some undefined way that they didn't quite trust even "nice guys". Someone they could bitch about "Men" to and not stop to say "Excluding you, of course", because to them I wasn't "men" even if I wasn't "women".

Now, these women usually knew that I was attracted to them (in various degrees), but somehow that didn't seem to matter.

Somehow, I have been perceived as an unconscious exception to the "rules". Too female (I guess) to be thought of as "male", but also too male to be thought of as "female" (I've been bitched to about "women" as well.)

I feel that somehow or other this ties into the fact that very few people are surprised to see me dressed or partly transitioned. Not that they have necessarily consciously thought about it ahead of time, more like "Oh right, of course, I knew that all along."

This all does have potential implications for how I might be treated after further transition: I suspect that I would continue to be treated as somewhere in-between, not really quite belonging to either. Not based upon appearances as such, more like because that's the "vibe" I give out (whatever that means!)

[Rachel Mari]

I was just thinking of that "inbetween vibe" kind of thing a lot lately. I have not started to transition (not sure if I will, just don't know) but I'll give you an example of what I mean.
My wife and I went to a small cocktail party made up five couples. I guys went to the TV room and watch and talked about sports and such. The women were upstairs in the living room talking. I went back and forth between the two. I didn't feel like I belonged doing the guy thing (had nothing to contribute to the conversation and I wasn't really interested either) and with the gals I was comfortable but felt out of place socially (it was all in my head). The women included me in their talk and it didn't bother them a bit.
Makes me wonder if that would change if I was to transition or would it stay the same. Well, I do know it'd make it easier to to not automatically feel like I'm suppose to be with the guys.

[Chickhe]

Funny, I noticed that with straight women too. Come to think of it, even the guys act differently... I guess you get treated like a woman even if they know you may not be... I wonder, if I was actually a fox and they were sheep.... could I just put on a wool sweater and have a nice lunch?

[kimdl93]

I thik its correct that lesbians may view us as "safe". But I think the connection can go a little farther. A lesbian friend and I had a conversation with a gay guy. He just couldn't comprehend how I could be straight and transgendered. She was very adamant in her argument that a) I was a woman inside, and b) like her, I was a woman who liked women.

I've also met bisexual women who were clearly attracted to me. In each case, they seemed to really like me as a woman.

[angpai30]

I have also had the same go for me as I was in a conversation with a gay friend as well... he could not fathome the idea that I could be straight and transitioning MTF. He still insists that I am gay and always will be gay.

Angela

[Stephenie S]

Don't forget that many Lesbians regard transwomen with contempt, merely an absurd construct of the patriarchy trying to use male power for evil.

Just sayin',

S

[DeeDee1974]

I have found that since I came out and started transitioning that people in my life feel safe confiding in me. Shortly after I started my transition a friend told me she was a lesbian, but that she wasn't ready to come out. She trusted me to keep her secret because I had gone through something similar. She finally had someone to talk to and that helped her come out to everyone else.

[Lorileah]

Don't forget that many Lesbians regard transwomen with contempt, merely an absurd construct of the patriarchy trying to use male power for evil.

Just sayin',

S

Really? I have never had that experience when I present as female. In fact like many above here, I have been welcomed into the circle and often taken in by lesbians. They seem to feel that I am not a threat to them. Now when I meet lesbians in when I am presenting more male, that is a different story. They close off and form a circle, giving me icy stares. Some have been outright aggressive.

The statement that we are an absurd construct seems to be, at least in my experience, from the "queeny" gay community.

In general, I am ignored by the gay men, protected and taken in confidence by the lesbians, found as a curiosity to women and either as a target or as a freak by men. Females have always used me as their shoulder, even in high school, I was the one they came to to complain about the guy they had dated.

[ArleneRaquel]

I've never had a bad experience when in the company of lesbians, and my LGBT activities started in 1974(circa) as a Gay Pride Parade member. My dressing stared almost 20 years earlier.

[melissaK]

You know, I have always gravitated to the kitchen with the women. I belong there. The fit is better. Always has been.

Sure sometimes I'm self conscious, and might go act all guy in the den for awhile, but it's not a good fit. And a lot of the kitchen women over the years ask me to talk to their husbands about something or another that generally has to do with wanting them to be more emotionally available. Talk about that inbetweener role.

Some see it in me right away - one day my brother in laws wife complained my brother in law should be more sensitive like me - and his defense was but he is a girl. This was long before HRT, but still he knew.

As for lesbians - they usually like me. But never thought much about the whys of it. My ex wife was a repressed lesbian and after our 14 ye marriage ended she came out. So, I guess they do like me. :)

[KellyJameson]

To unravel my own inner confusion I focused on that "vibe" because I think that is the expression of our essence and to know what the vibe means is to know yourself.

I see the word "vibe" as extremely important to gender as an expression of self.

For me I experience that vibe from others as being similar or different from me so think of it as if they are on my wave length or not and to what degree.

Without fail I sync up with lesbians unless there is alot of anger in them because I never connect with anger filled people.

Their energy is very similar to my own and I find that I just "get" them intuitively.

I will never have much interest in being with strongly masculine men or strongly feminine women as close friends because their "vibe" repels me and mine repels them so there is no common ground.

I can spend time with them and enjoy their company but I do not experience them as belonging to my tribe so they are foreign to me in some sense as I am to them.

I think of myself as being a masculine woman with a touch of femininity if I compare myself to others who I have met that I resonate with and the more my body changed the more I dropped symbols of femininity because the inside (body) changed so the external (clothes,behavior,ect..) could be dispensed with as a way to manage the anxiety.

For myself personally I have no interest in "acting" like a woman and when I experience inner femininity it is in relation to being around its opposite in another that than changes me without conscious intention so it becomes some kind of dance that I was pulled into but yet wanted to join without knowing that I wanted to join.

For those women who are lesbians (not lipstick lesbians) and know my past it is interesting to watch their minds work the problem of why I feel so familar to them because it creates a contradiction in their minds of how I can be like them when I am not.

This is another reason why I think the brain decides gender, the vibe and gender somehow are related.

I recently met a woman who considers herself straight and is constantly being rejected by men but there is nothing about her that should lead to this and all of the men say the same thing " there is something wrong with you,something missing"

They call it a coldness but it because she has a complete absense of the feminine in her so cannot balance the masculine in others. I have never experienced a man in a womans body before but she is exactly what I would think of. She is a mirror image of myself only in reverse and I find myself strongly pulled by my awareness and understanding of her, like meeting one of my own kind.

To me she is very warm, funny, kind, intelligent, ect.. but men cannot connect with her and before she knew my history told me it was nice to meet a woman like herself
because she usually does not like hanging out with women which I found hysterical.

[Stephenie S]

Really? I have never had that experience when I present as female. In fact like many above here, I have been welcomed into the circle and often taken in by lesbians. They seem to feel that I am not a threat to them. Now when I meet lesbians in when I am presenting more male, that is a different story. They close off and form a circle, giving me icy stares. Some have been outright aggressive.

The statement that we are an absurd construct seems to be, at least in my experience, from the "queeny" gay community.

In general, I am ignored by the gay men, protected and taken in confidence by the lesbians, found as a curiosity to women and either as a target or as a freak by men. Females have always used me as their shoulder, even in high school, I was the one they came to to complain about the guy they had dated.

Yes really. A significant portion of Radical Lesbian women have little time for "trannies".

[Anna Lorree]

I've never known a radical lesbian, but I have known a number of normal lesbians over the years. Even though none of them have known I am trans, I have always gotten along with them pretty well. It's odd, often as I have gotten to talk to women (just normal friendly conversation without personal details) I can tell lesbians from hetero women. I don't know why, maybe they can detect me in a similar way and that is why I am deemed "safe".

Anna

[ReineD]

It's true, the more radical, feminist lesbians do not like transwomen whom they feel appropriate womanhood, AND they do not like transmen whom they feel are betraying womanhood. But I think their numbers are few or they are concentrated in some areas but not others. I've seen some pretty ugly websites though, and I've met some lesbians that wouldn't give us the time of day. I guess it all depends on which bar you hang out in. But, other lesbians have been pleasant, although they didn't rush headlong to welcome us into their sisterhood either ... but this could be because I was there and they saw us as "a hetero couple". My SO might have had better luck on her own.

As to lone men being included in women's conversations while the rest of the men are watching the game, this happens all the time. Women LOVE to talk to men who are interested in their concerns, whether the man is straight, gay, CD, or not CD. And believe it or not, a lot of men who are not gay or trans enjoy the experience equally. :)

[Lorileah]

Yes really. A significant portion of Radical Lesbian women have little time for "trannies".

those would be the same ones who have little time for lipstick lezzis and lesbians who just want to be accepted. Like Reine said, they are few and far between. Sort of the right wing of the community. the ones who have to cram their beliefs down everyone's throat. Did you know some gay guys don't like us either?

[ReineD]

Did you know some gay guys don't like us either?

I suppose the TG community isn't the only one with factions. I remember reading a website years ago that recommended TGs to NOT go into leather bars. I gather it is a segment of the gay community that hates effeminate men. I bet someone entrenched in the gay community can parse it and list at least a half dozen major types of gays, same as in the lesbian community. :p

Come to think of it, same as the cis community, except there are even more factions: goths, punks, rockers, hipsters, bikers, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all play nicely in the same sandbox? :p

[CharleneT]

Reine, I'd be happy to play in your sand box !!

I agree that the LGBT community could sure use a little more "get along" than is currently the case !!

[Rianna Humble]

Yes really. A significant portion of Radical Lesbian women have little time for "trannies".

I think that if you had qualified your original statement by pointing out that you were talking about the Rad Les minority it might have been more easily understood.

Unfortunately, like many people who go in for the title "Radical ...", in my experience they tend to be not so much radical as reactionary.

It was interesting, to me, that when a RadFem group tried to hire the facilities of our local Ethical Society to promote their personal form of discrimination, it was my lesbian friends who contacted the owners of the facility to point out that in specifically excluding trans women from their discussions they were breaking the law. The RadFems responded to the Ethical Society by saying that they were trying to create a safe environment for victims of discrimination, so my lesbian friends pointed out that they were unlawfully excluding one of the groups of women who suffer most discrimination. The board of the Ethical Society took note of the concerns expressed by my lesbian friends and decided that this form of discrimination was contrary to the ethos of their society.

I was happy to have my friends speaking out in my support.

[sandra-leigh]

I went out this past evening to help a friend celebrate her birthday. She is lesbian, and the friends that showed up also all turned out to be lesbian, and I gather that two of the group have effectively become the center of the young adult (30-ish) lesbian community. They were talking about one of the exclusionary feminist groups in the city, which they thoroughly disliked and said that it had no credibility in their community, and talked about some of their successes in thwarting the exclusionary group. One of the group I was with works directly in legal challenges against unlawful discrimination, so this wasn't just "talk" or boasting.

But on the other hand, the exclusionary feminist group does exist here. As incompetent as it is, it still has attractions to some people. (That group does not just exclude trans people, by the way: it also somehow "forgets" to invite inner-city visible minority women to its workshops on discrimination.)

[Linda St. John]

Yes, I often feel the"T" is falling away from the "LGBT" acronym.

Linda

[Rianna Humble]

I would have said that the T is trying to break away from LGBT to become more elitist, but at least on my patch that won't happen if I can help it.

[Laurie Ann]

This response takes this a little off topic but my attorney who is a lesbian seemed confused when I told her I was transsexual. She asked exactly what that meant I told her it is the T in LGBT.

[sandra-leigh]

Bringing this back towards the more accepting variety (as far as I know I have never met any of the trans-rejecting lesbians):

I had not previously met 3 of the 4 women (all self-identified "dykes") at the birthday event last night. I was wearing a dress, and lipstick (at least until it wore off) but nothing else special -- I'd even forgotten my earrings. And yet during the conversation, when one of the women had occasion to refer to me, she automatically used "she", with no discernible pause and no advanced time to "compose" what she was going to say.

I know that wouldn't be of much significance to most of you, but it was quite uncommon for me: I get Sir'd nearly all of the time no matter what I look like. The little bit of acknowledgment felt good.