How many CDs have urge to be Female or Quasi-female?

[LelaK]

I know some CDs say they would like to be female and I know I would like to be mostly female and some say they like being male, but just like to look female by dress, I think.

Are there stats on this? My guess is that most of us would like to have some features of females, but retain some male features or traits. Like, males tend to be taller, and I suspect that many of you tall CDs may like to retain tallness, or at least be a taller than average female. I understand that women have weak orgasms, but maybe have longer-lasting pleasures during sex. I wouldn't want to give up having stronger orgasms, but I'd prefer that they last somewhat longer. And I'd like to be able to have orgasm without having male genitalia.

So I'm curious which female features other CDs would choose if they had a choice.

I'm not crazy about the exterior female genitalia (which doesn't count boobs, because those are nice), but I like female genitalia much better than male. On the other hand, I'd like to have the option to get pregnant and have a baby with short gestation period, but I'd prefer to get pregnant by a female rather than a male. A female hermaphrodite (rather than a male hermaphrodite) would be an acceptable means of getting pregnant.

I'm starting another thread, called "Promote Medical Advances" (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?183441-Promote-Farout-TG-Medical-Advances&p=3001650#post3001650) where I want to discuss making our desires a reality, because I think medicine is on the verge of being able to grant us our wishes and allow us to be truly female, or any combination of male and female. I think that could happen within ten or twenty years.

[rah]

if i was given 2 choice, that "i would be accepted as a CD in society and i would be treated like a woman" OR "if i just transformed into a woman" well i would take the second turn into a women, i like girls cloths and to be honest women cloths look better on women body than men, and i just love there body I wish I was a girl

[Cynthia Anne]

IF! I had a choice I would be all female with no exceptions!

[Karren H]

I'm happy not being able to get pregnant ...... don't really want anything that large being pulled out of any of my orifices. lol

[kimdl93]

I do have the desire, though not an overwhelming need to be female. I would love those parts!

[Tracii G]

Too deep a thought for me I'm too confused as it is.

[ArleneRaquel]

I'll keep my male parts, but I do live as a female, and I love it. :)

[ChelseaErtel]

I love to live as a female and am seriously considering HRT and then snip snip. Wouldn't miss them at all. Go figure.

[Ressie]

Sometimes I think wanting to be the opposite sex is out of jealousy. I'm envious of women in a superficial way, but certainly wouldn't want their problems. Nice perky breasts would be a pleasure to have, but what about when gravity sets in later in life? Would you desire having to watch your weight to avoid cellulite? How about stretch marks after giving birth? And could you handle watching chick flicks instead of action movies?

Since I kind of believe in reincarnation it's possible that we've all been the opposite sex in other lifetimes. Is tallness a word? lol

[I Am Paula]

I wish I was fully female, but by the time information and technology was made available, I was to old and in a great relationship. Stuck in a male body I hate, but got over it. At least I can live 98% of the time in the illusion of female.- Celeste

[Lady Catherine]

I enjoy being a man. I like sex as a man and enjoy being with women. If I was a woman, I'd be a lesbian. I can have multiple orgasms (it just takes practice and disapline) and thus bring my fiance to multiple orgasms. Now having said that, I wouldn't mind having a nice pair of breast. I would like that very much.

[NathalieX66]

I have met, and made friends with quite a few transsexuals, and I am simply amazed at how flawless one can change gender of one makes the effort. It's a very real, and necessary reality for some. I put TS activist Donna Rose in this category. I don't think I'm quite that.

I am perfectly happy straddling both lines of gender, I like the term gender fluid. After growing my hair down to my shoulders, a year of beard laser removal, I feel content. My goal in life is to be as gender ambiguous as possible so that I can go out as any gender I feel like it. A year and a half ago, I never thought i could do it, but here I am. :cheer:

I don't even feell like a crossdresser anymore, I feel like me as me. As much as I like dressing to the nines, going out in public in womens jeans, tops , and boots, sweaters , and dressing like the average boring women does it for me....mainly because it doesn't draw attention, and I can simply be me.

[lexyanne]

I would without hesitation trade in all of my male parts for the female equivalant. For someone who is so deeply rooted in his male lifestyle I would also like the chance to be completely rooted in a female one.

[ChelseaErtel]

I like chick flicks and cry at movies. Now, if someone calls me a "girl", I'll say thank you. I'm very emotional, just need a pair of breasts, Mr. Nasty gone and I'll be complete - kind of.

[karinels]

If it were up to me, I would have preferred to been born female. I would be 5' 4, 110 lbs, 32C breasts, long thick flowing brown hair, big doe eyes, and would have been practiced in the art of being a lady. I do not like this thing between my legs, and I already keep my legs, underarms, genitals shaved and cleaned up, but as a girl, I would not have to shave my face. As a girl, you have mentruation but that is part of life. My toenails are always painted, but to return to guy mode, I have to remove the polish from my fingers (unless around a few different friends, lol). I enjoy putting on make up, just never happy with the final result myself, but have been told i present well. And I just recently started seeing a couple of "guys", and can say I do enjoy their company when I am Karin.

[ReineD]

Sometimes I think wanting to be the opposite sex is out of jealousy. I'm envious of women in a superficial way, but certainly wouldn't want their problems. Nice perky breasts would be a pleasure to have, but what about when gravity sets in later in life? Would you desire having to watch your weight to avoid cellulite? How about stretch marks after giving birth?

There you go.

Fantasy is nice and all, but hopefully a CDer wouldn't live in it to the point where he is disappointed with reality.



So I'm curious which female features other CDs would choose if they had a choice.

I'm not crazy about the exterior female genitalia (which doesn't count boobs, because those are nice), but I like female genitalia much better than male. On the other hand, I'd like to have the option to get pregnant and have a baby with short gestation period, but I'd prefer to get pregnant by a female rather than a male. A female hermaphrodite (rather than a male hermaphrodite) would be an acceptable means of getting pregnant.

You could write your own chapter in biology books as a design for the perfect hybrid sex. If enough people go for it, maybe we'll bypass medical ethics and seriously begin down the road to hybrid generic engineering. :)

[KateSpade83]

I would have preferred to have been born female. I like everything about being female: the sex, orgasms, boobs, clothes, and being beautiful.

But I have to live my life as a guy...

[Beverley Sims]

I am happy not to take too many more steps over the cliff.
I can be half and half.

[Krista1985]

I'm a bit back and forth with this question.

Some days I would gladly embrace being female with all that comes with it. Other days I am glad to be able to go back to male mode, even knowing that the desire to appear/act feminine will resurface. I think it's the duality aspect that draws me to crossdressing. I want to be the best person I can be. Since I am a man who enjoys dressing up as a woman, and by definition that makes me a crossdresser, I strive to be the best CD I can be. After-all, it's what's between the ears that makes a person great, not what's between the legs. Some days there is more female than male between the ears, and vice-versa. I just roll with it and do the best I can with the hand I was dealt. Given the choice, I think I'd stay the same as I am now because I feel like a more complete person with the option to present myself either way. If I could shift my body based on my mood, that would be my choice.

[marion]

I would really just want to be 100% female. I want to be vulnerable and emotional and so girly. the thought of having boobs, curves etc is all i dream of x

[prene]

I have been a guy.

If I could I would love to be a girl.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Hermaphrodite is not a word we use, nor the meaning of because it does not cover those with in our Intersexed community,

Im intersexed yet many of us are not in the way that was first used, & we are very different with in our members on our forums, im on 3 so when i say theres about 20 difference's & then some it does not even address our issues, because they are so different for each of us,

Im a intersexed female / woman yet my facial features say male. & i dont have my womb.

My friend is intersexed looks very male in body shape voice height very masculine yet has her womb , wether she could have had children is another matter , & like me her hormones changed , for her only 3 times from female to male & back to female over some many years,

In the begining she was very female in looks, hormones changed to T, to a high male of about 34 nmol then the maleness came , then when it went back to female that did not change back her looks to female,

So Hermaphrodite does not address for us today our issues or really tell you any thing about us other then some have both sex organs , so thought id let you know,

& some of us have no idear of what its like to be male or female because we are if you like caught in the middle, or in no mans land, so try being in a void & see what its like then youll have a little idear of where we are,

Allmost for got dont count on .....all ..... intersexed female 's or male for that matter, being able to give birth to a child many cant if you understand the internals of an intersexed female youll find we all are not compleat in all parts of our bodys, some can some cant, a C T scan or xray will show that, in most case's,

...noeleena..

[Cathy J]

I don't want to be a woman, just dress like one whenever possible. I love women's clothes. That's what makes me a CD.

Hugs

[Samantha43]

I'm a simple crossdresser. I like being a male and am only attracted to females. I have a need to crossdress for some reason, I stopped trying to figure out why years ago.

So really, I'm just a guy with an unusual hobby.

[Ressie]

Hi,

Hermaphrodite is not a word we use, nor the meaning of because it does not cover those with in our Intersexed community,

Im intersexed yet many of us are not in the way that was first used, & we are very different with in our members on our forums, im on 3 so when i say theres about 20 difference's & then some it does not even address our issues, because they are so different for each of us,

Im a intersexed female / woman yet my facial features say male. & i dont have my womb.

My friend is intersexed looks very male in body shape voice height very masculine yet has her womb , wether she could have had children is another matter , & like me her hormones changed , for her only 3 times from female to male & back to female over some many years,

In the begining she was very female in looks, hormones changed to T, to a high male of about 34 nmol then the maleness came , then when it went back to female that did not change back her looks to female,

So Hermaphrodite does not address for us today our issues or really tell you any thing about us other then some have both sex organs , so thought id let you know,

& some of us have no idear of what its like to be male or female because we are if you like caught in the middle, or in no mans land, so try being in a void & see what its like then youll have a little idear of where we are,

Allmost for got dont count on .....all ..... intersexed female 's or male for that matter, being able to give birth to a child many cant if you understand the internals of an intersexed female youll find we all are not compleat in all parts of our bodys, some can some cant, a C T scan or xray will show that, in most case's,

...noeleena..

Thanks Noeleena. I'm wondering if any other members here are intersexed. It seems that someone else has talked about it before, but I can't remember who it was. From what I understand, it isn't always obvious and some may not know until they get older when a doctor finally finds the hidden organ of the opposite sex. Let me know if I'm off base. :)

[ReineD]

Thanks Noeleena. I'm wondering if any other members here are intersexed. It seems that someone else has talked about it before, but I can't remember who it was. From what I understand, it isn't always obvious and some may not know until they get older when a doctor finally finds the hidden organ of the opposite sex. Let me know if I'm off base. :)

Here's a pretty good resource if you want to learn more about the various intersex conditions:

http://www.isna.org/faq/


People who have intersex conditions have anatomy that is not considered typically male or female. Most people with intersex conditions come to medical attention because doctors or parents notice something unusual about their bodies. In contrast, people who are transgendered have an internal experience of gender identity that is different from most people.

Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It’s also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.

In spite of these similarities, these two groups should not be and cannot be thought of as one. The truth is that the vast majority of people with intersex conditions identify as male or female rather than transgender or transsexual. Thus, where all people who identify as transgender or transsexual experience problems with their gender identity, only a small portion of intersex people experience these problems.

[Jenniferathome]

My guess is that most of us would like to have some features of females, but retain some male features or traits.

You are wrong. You are not referring to crossdressers. By definition, we DRESS in the attire of the opposite gender, not wish to become them. I see a common theme on this forum of using the term crossdresser but really referring to transsexuals. While from the outside view, a trans person may crossdress, their gender identity says they are properly presenting. Someone who wants the physical form of the opposite gender is not just a crossdresser.

[Megan70]

I'm happy not being able to get pregnant ...... don't really want anything that large being pulled out of any of my orifices. lol and say nothing of PMS,menstration and menopause, plus the unfortunate 4 kinds of womens cancer.... breast. Ueteran, ovarian and cevrical. Poor ladies. I'll stay with that male in me and my parts and just use the clothes to satisfy me.

Megan70

[LelaK]

LK: My guess is that most of us would like to have some features of females, but retain some male features or traits.
Jen: You are wrong. You are not referring to crossdressers. By definition, we DRESS in the attire of the opposite gender, not wish to become them.
I'll have to see reliable stats before I'd be confident that you're right. It seems pretty certain that CDs are largely basically heterosexual, and maybe that's what you mean, that CDs want to keep their penises and don't want vaginas.

But there are other female features besides vaginas. The fact that most CDs seem to wear bras, forms, feminine makeup etc seems to show that most of us would like to have some of the female features that we imitate. Certainly those who take hormones and those who do breast enlargement etc are doing it because they want to have that female feature (boobs). Others say they wish they were shorter, or had more hair on their heads and less or none on their faces and bodies. Many seem to shave their legs as well as their faces, which I believe means they would like to have those female features too (i.e., relative hairlessness, except on the scalp).

[noeleena]

Hi,
Dee,

Yes we have 2 others who are intersexed & they are very different to me , in fact we are very different to each other, so it cannot be said just because we are intersexed we are the same, & even my close friend is different & that covers all aspects of our lifes, how we get on with others ,

I could write pages on myself in my difference's & do the same about my friend whos has said she is happy for me to do so.

& i could write a book about her & theres nothing we have not talked about she has been very open with me so theres a trust we have, & Dejarn = our grandaurter, she's now 9 y 10 m . & loves her,

...noeleena...

[Saffron]

It's a though question since a lot of CD are in fact early TS. And of course there's the pink fog.

[Mollyanne]

if! I had a choice i would be all female with no exceptions!

my thoughts exactly!!!!!!!

Molly

[~Serena~]

I am not particularly fond of my male genitalia but the thought of having female genitalia ( by which I mean vagina) scares me. Like someone earlier posted they have a tough time of : menstruation cycles, pregnancy (I want children just not from inside me), breast cancer (which occurs in males too but significantly less than females), and other diseases and infections specific to females. I have a relatively small build (5'4 / 135 lbs.) which seems like a good size to become female but I think I just want to be androgynous which prob means undergoing HRT and some minor surgeries but not SRS. I took the COGIATI test online (not sure how reliable it is) and I think I remember getting something along the lines of androgynous or a transexual who wasn't sure. Since I am attracted to both genders I feel like in the end I'll be fine with which ever genitalia I opt for.

[Angela Campbell]

From my earliest recollections I wanted to be a girl. It seems like I was almost a half and half anyway. I was always the smallest one in school when I was young and did not really develop like the other boys did. I was almost hairless from the head down until I was about 17 or so, very small....you know....even now on my chest I have about 20 hairs. My arm hair is less than my ex wives. I have a more curvy shape than most men. I only liked playing with the girls when young and still prefer their company. It has been hard to live half and half and would gladly accept all the things about being a girl. Menstruation, pregnancy, discrimination at work, not being able to parallel park. It doesn't compare to the mens side....expectations of being tough, being aggressive, strong, face shaving, hiding emotions, prostate problems...not a walk in the park either way.

Growing up like this I was always called a sissy, picked last for teams of sports (that I didn't like much anyway) made fun of because of my size and the small genitals, even made fun of because I preferred to play with dolls and such instead of playing rough games. I was bullied and beat up and if I cried because someone hit me I was ridiculed for it. If I had been a girl and cried because some boy hit me I would have been supported and accepted for it. When very young when we were asked what we wanted to be when we grew up I usually said a housewife. Other bvoys said fireman or astronaught but I wanted to be a homemaker. I pretty much learned to fake it pretty well and now you wouldn't know I have so much female inclinations because I hide it so well, but inside I am a girl and would exchange happily if I could.

[Samantha43]

My guess is that most of us would like to have some features of females, but retain some male features or traits.

I'll keep all of my male features!


You are wrong. You are not referring to crossdressers. By definition, we DRESS in the attire of the opposite gender, not wish to become them. I see a common theme on this forum of using the term crossdresser but really referring to transsexuals. While from the outside view, a trans person may crossdress, their gender identity says they are properly presenting. Someone who wants the physical form of the opposite gender is not just a crossdresser.

Amen, Sister!


I'll have to see reliable stats before I'd be confident that you're right. It seems pretty certain that CDs are largely basically heterosexual, and maybe that's what you mean, that CDs want to keep their penises and don't want vaginas.

But there are other female features besides vaginas. The fact that most CDs seem to wear bras, forms, feminine makeup etc seems to show that most of us would like to have some of the female features that we imitate. Certainly those who take hormones and those who do breast enlargement etc are doing it because they want to have that female feature (boobs). Others say they wish they were shorter, or had more hair on their heads and less or none on their faces and bodies. Many seem to shave their legs as well as their faces, which I believe means they would like to have those female features too (i.e., relative hairlessness, except on the scalp).

I am a simple crossdresser. What you state above doesn't describe me. I'm perfectly happy with who I am. I can dress as a woman whenever I need to, then take it all off and be the dude I really am.

I know many genetic women who wish they had better hair on their heads, less body hair, bigger boobs, were shorter, taller....the list goes on. It's human nature and not restricted to crossdressers or transsexuals.

[LelaK]

Sami: I am a simple crossdresser. What you state above doesn't describe me. I'm perfectly happy with who I am. I can dress as a woman whenever I need to, then take it all off and be the dude I really am.

I know many genetic women who wish they had better hair on their heads, less body hair, bigger boobs, were shorter, taller....the list goes on. It's human nature and not restricted to crossdressers or transsexuals.
I suppose I should have titled this thread differently, but I can't edit it, as far as I know. But I wasn't trying to divide us against each other. I was just curious if other CDs would prefer to actually have any female features. I expect some day humans will have the ability to easily transform their features however they like.

For those who are happy being entirely male, when you CD, would you like to be able to have real boobs for a short while, just while cross-dressing, in order to pass better, and then revert to male features? Do you think you have a feminine side and that cross-dressing helps you express that?

[Meghan]

I am honestly in an in-between point. I pretty much dress every day to some level or another. I am willing to male some pretty permanent changes to my body, in terms of the shape I am gaining from working out, corset training, and having my ears pierced etc.

As a child, I would PRAY AND PRAY I would wake up magically changed into a girl, and fantasized about it over and over and over again.

I think there are plenty of CDs who never want to change, some TS's that wish they hadn't and everything else in between. Problem is it's hard to be honest with ourselves, so some girls and boys just simply don't know where they are in terms of that desire.

Meghan

[Angela Campbell]

Its kind of funny. Some people have said you are not a TS unless you are going to get the SRS and HRT, while some also say if you want to be a woman you are not a crossdresser. I don't know. I always wanted to be a girl, always. I have decided not to pursue the route and just try to present as a woman when I can and not do the whole sex change thing even though I want to. So it seems I am not a TS or CD. I guess I am just me. Sometimes boys will be girls.

[Julie Denier]

I am a simple crossdresser. ... I'm perfectly happy with who I am. I can dress as a woman whenever I need to, then take it all off and be the dude I really am.



That's me as well, though I'm not able to dress as often as I might like.

[Foxglove]

Sometimes I think wanting to be the opposite sex is out of jealousy. I'm envious of women in a superficial way, but certainly wouldn't want their problems. Nice perky breasts would be a pleasure to have, but what about when gravity sets in later in life? Would you desire having to watch your weight to avoid cellulite? How about stretch marks after giving birth? And could you handle watching chick flicks instead of action movies?



There you go.

Fantasy is nice and all, but hopefully a CDer wouldn't live in it to the point where he is disappointed with reality.



I can go along with this to a certain extent, but I wonder: how many GG's would be happy to exchange their problems for the ones we transpeople have? I think the grass is always greener, isn't it?

Annabelle

[Cary]

As a male who loves women and wearing their clothes, I have the best of both worlds. I have no desire to change that!

[suchacutie]

"I understand that women have weak orgasms"

Huh? That's not been my experience! Not sure what you mean by this.

As far as features, my only issue is having to hide male the features of the other gender, whichever that may be. I do envy those with facial features that work in both genders easily. It all comes down to the number of male "clues" that have to be minimized and it would be nice to have fewer of those while having the ability to show a bit of cleavage to neutralize some of the remaining clues. I am greedy in that I want both of my gendered selves and I want them both to work as well as possible, so more neutral features would be nice in both genders. Unfortunately, these male shoulders of mine aren't subject to femininization surgery!

[dallasmann]

I do, but it's a part-time feeling and I have no control over when I do or do not feel this way. However, I can fully control the urge to go femme when it would be inappropriate to do so.

[BRANDYJ]

I am happy being me. I happen to be a male and am happy about that. So I am a crossdresser too. To me, being a crossdresser does not mean I want to be a female. I enjoy the duality of entering the fem siode when I want to and then back to being the man I am. I think it's a very small percentage of crossdressers that really want to be women. Nice to fantasize about at times, but unless you have serious gender issues or are in fact a TS, you don't really want to be a woman.

[Jess6887]

if i were given a choice, i would like to be a female, but i am in the situation were i am a male and well that's how it is, but if i could get one wish it would be to have nice breast's and a feminine body and looks to go with it

[Marlana]

I'm gonna cross-thread here. I like being a male most of the time. The rest of the time, I would like to be female. That means ALL that comes with being a female. Mostly I want the female anatomy so I can truly understand what sex feels like to a woman. Yes, that means being with a man, but also real breasts and a vagina. In male mode, I like pleasing my wife in any way. That's just how I roll. Therapy, here I come.

[KateSpade83]

I feel the same way, Marlana. But I prefer that I was born a beautiful female with a pretty face and hourglass body...

[Diane Edwards]

Given the choice I would gladly shed my male anatomy and become completely female, including the capability to bear children.

[newfem]

I'd happily become female if I was given the choice and are seriously considering doing just that.

[Ame Anderson]

I am just trying to enjoy my life. Playing dress up is fun for me. I am not hurting anyone and my wife doesn't mind. So let me get in touch with my feminine side and I'll leave others alone to have their fun.

[irishsissy]

I,m not really sure most of the time, I would take a wild guess about 99.9 percent of the time I,m (dressed) I would like to twich my nose and p-o-o-f become the real McCoy in that moment in time.

[wilt575]

I guess for myself it would be quasi-female for now. Already have the (natural) curvy lower body and wide hips, all I need are boobs,(maybe implants?) my wish plus wouldn't mind lower body being a little curvier. Love wearing girly clothes any and all just love looking (being) like girls/ladies you see in malls etc. Mostly casual dressers, jeans, pants, shorts and capris etc. Also tees, tanks, sweaters and tops. Slowly building complete female wardrobe, everyday,semi-dressy and evening.

[docrobbysherry]

Because dressed, I resemble Quasimoto in drag A LOT!:doh:

Fortunately, Sherry carries off the quasi-female look pretty well!:battingeyelashes:

And, she HAS been pregnant a couple of times. But, hasn't carried anywhere near full term yet.:eek:

[GinaD]

In my fantasy world, I would have been born a girl. I had considered becoming a transexual since my teen years, but realized I would have to sacrifice most if not all of my family, friends, and career aspirations. I just wasn't brave enough to do it. As it is, it cost me a marriage and all that comes with that. Still, I spend as much time as I can dressed as a woman, acting as a woman, and occasionally being a woman with a special man. I prefer this to my male world.

[Kate Simmons]

Being a woman isn't just about looks and sex. Being a woman includes being compassionate, loving and sharing feelings. Also having strong family ties and maintaining them. All of these things are rewards in themselves.Folks who prefer being guys don't usually understand this but rather have a "git 'er done" mindset.:)

[sometimes_miss]

Considering all those who are in the closet, and those who really don't know why they want to crossdress, you're not going to get an accurate number no matter who you ask. I want to be female, but it's only because of how I feel, not who I really am. Sure, it would fit in with what I want to wear perfectly; but in nearly all other cases, being female isn't what I behave as, only what I want to behave as.

[Ceri Anne]

I like chick flicks and cry at movies. Now, if someone calls me a "girl", I'll say thank you. I'm very emotional, just need a pair of breasts, Mr. Nasty gone and I'll be complete - kind of.

I have always liked chick flicks and cry at movies also (except for the really chicky chick flicks like "Stella got her groove back" "Ya Ya Sisterhood" etc. But I also enjoy my manly aspects at times, hunting and fishing. I have natural man boobs in almost A+ cup, and enjoy having them, bigger would be nicer, natural cleavage. I was looking at a SRS site yesterday and thought about having female genitalia. I don't have a drive for that but could really picture it. I don't have a major attraction to guys though, so I would proably be best with man parts, would definently be lesbian if female.

[Annie M]

In a friction-less universe with spherical cows...I would go all girl in a heart beat

[AmandaM]

I would like to try it to settle the issue. Let's say a week or two in a woman's body. Then have the option to stay that way or go back.

[Brittany CD]

I don't want to be a woman at all. I just like dressing every now and then