what is male mode?

[Confusedandalone]

I'm really struggling with my SOs crossdressing. It's new to both of us but I'm feeling like the guy I fell in love with has vanished. I'm not attracted to women and I find his CD disconcerting. I much prefer him dressed as a man. However, he wants to dress as a woman all the time. His version of CD at this point is women's clothes but still presenting as male (women's jewelry, shoes and maybe shirt, male jeans and jacket.) He sees this as still dressing male.

Am I wrong to want to see him in a suit? I find him sexy as hell as a man and I wasn't looking for a new girlfriend!

[Jenniferathome]

Hi there and welcome the weird world of crossdressing. No, you are not wrong. For anyone in your circumstance I always ask: have you talked about this with him? You have a right to set boundaries about crossdressing but you have to talk about it. That is just step one.

[suzy1]

You are not wrong. We get this sort of story all the time here. A man gets married and then latter his wife finds out he is a crossdresser.

You can try to accept it but you don’t have to. You did not know about this when you marred him I presume?

I hope you can work something out. You are just as important as he is in the marriage!

All the best,

SUZY

[Joanne f]

Male mode is when someone who likes to CD is dressed in all male clothes as opposed to being dressed in their female clothes, something in-between the two maybe something more androgynous looking, and you are not wrong for wanting him to dress in male suits as he is not wrong for liking more female styles so it is a question of finding a balance that will suit both of you , how would you feel if he wore a woman's trouser suit .

[Ann Thomas]

Joanne is right about what we call male mode. And you're right about your feelings too. A compromise is always best, balancing the lives of two people involved as you are.

One thing to keep in mind is he may or may not have known how much desire he had to crossdress until he had the opportunity, or maybe it increased with age beyond what he thought it would. For me, it was a moderate concern of mine before I married my second wife, but it then increased as I aged, creating tension and she raised lots of questions like yours.

For me, it can't be helped, as it is genetic. I didn't know this was going to happen to me and still don't know where it's leading to. I found out my dad did the same, but I didn't find this out until a short time before he died of cancer. Five years later I found out my son was going down the same path, even though I had hidden both mine and my dad's from him.

All the best, dear,
Ann

[ReineD]

Different accessories are more or less popular, depending on the age/generation and also the socio/economic milieu. For example, my teenage son wears a woven necklace and no one thinks anything of it (he's not a CD).

That said, here are the differences between my SO's male and female modes:

In male mode: He has long hair tied at the nape. This is acceptable in his work environment (academic), since half the men in his department have long hair that they tie back. In order to save time getting ready when he goes out, he has let his fingernails grow longer than men usually wear them. A few people have noticed, but it is no big deal. He also keeps his body shaved at all times, also to not spend more than 45 minutes should he get ready to go out dressed (he has a busy schedule). He rarely wears shorts in the summer time, so again, this is no big deal. He got his ears pierced years ago, but no one notices the holes in his ear lobes. Or if they do, it doesn't matter since many men also have ear piercings. He often keeps his toe nails painted but again, he wears sneakers so no one knows except me. :)

In male mode he wears strictly male things, and he'll be the first to admit he is not a snappy dresser. lol. Jeans, Tshirts or polo shirts, socks and white sneakers constitute his look 99.99% of the time. We have a very casual life.

In femme mode: the whole shabang. She wears her hair loose, puts on earrings and other jewelry, makeup, breast forms, waist cincher, hip pads, and feminine clothing with accessories. She has a weakness for stylish clothes, sweaters, shoes, and jewelry. Since her finger nails are long and with all the other gender cues while she is dressed, she doesn't feel that painting them is necessary, which cuts out a huge amount of time when getting ready.

My SO told me something in the beginning of our relationship that I've always cherished. He said that anytime I felt the need to see him in guy mode, I should just say the word and he would revert, even if she had just spent an hour getting ready, with no questions asked. I've never had to do this. :p At the same time, it is important to him/her to maintain a healthy balance in all aspects of his/her life (not just with the gender presentation), so we get lots of time together in guy mode too.

[BRANDYJ]

Confusedandalone, No you are not being unreasonable at all for wanting to see your guy in a suit. Quite the opposite! It is him who is being thoughtless for not tempering his dressing to please you. I read your other posts and it seems you are more then willing to compromise, but he is not. I don't know your ages, but he seems to think he can dress and do as he pleases and you are supposed to just accept it, like it and go along with it. A relationship is give and take supposedly with love care and concern for your partner. I sadly don't see that the case for your relationship. Seems his way is more important then your feelings. If he can't get his head out of the pink fog, he may well find it will be his way without you. I sincerely wish you the best.

[Miriam-J]

The others have covered the definition of male mode well, and I agree wholeheartedly with the need to find balance for both of you. Perhaps you already recognize that his need to dress in "female mode" is necessary and probably impossible to fully stifle. But for many of us it is important to exercise the "male mode" frequently as well - though the amount of each varies from person to person and couple to couple.

I find it important to maintain my male mode most of the time, for my wife's sake as well as my own. She married a man and deserves to have one, and not just in bed - even though she knew of my crossdressing long before we wed. I am sensitive to the cues that she considers most important in a man, so I keep my chest and leg hair, and I only wear a nightie to bed on occasion. These cues are important to me as well, as a reminder of the man I am and always will be. At the same time, she is quite comfortable with me entering female mode to varying degrees at various times through the week, satisfying my own innate needs. At these times I may just sit around in a dress, or may go all out with my appearance. On occasion we even go out to eat together or shopping while I am in female mode (also called "dressed en femme").

There's another aspect of this that can be disturbing to some. From what I've learned, some crossdressers seem to drastically change their attitudes and behaviors when dressed, even around the home. I can understand how this might disturb a wife even more, and should be discussed together. Note though that some behavioral adjustments are necessary if the female mode is used outside the home, if only to avoid attracting adverse attention from the public, and that these behaviors must be practiced at times in the home if they are to be performed adequately in public. Again, you and your partner must work together to find an appropriate balance for you both.

Good luck as you work through all this. For most it's certainly not easy.

Miriam

[LelaK]

Most are not Gay

I don't think I've read your other posts, but if you're concerned that your S.O. may be secretly gay, that seems to be highly unlikely, as it seems that at least 80% and possibly over 90% of cross-dressers are straight. Most of us prefer intimate relationships with women, but also like to dress like women.

So I think the probability is that your S.O. is attracted to you and would like to be like you, except that s/he appears to be experiencing the typical male behavior of immaturity and inconsideration. Men generally mature more slowly than women, you know. We/they thus retain somewhat selfish tendencies way too long.

It would be nice if s/he might like to chat with other CDs on a forum like this, but I suppose it might be awkward for you to invite him/her to this one, at least for a while. (It's a bit awkward trying to use the right pronouns in places like this. Some of us don't mind being called he, but a lot of CDs appear to prefer to be called she, at least when they're dressed en femme. So I try to combine pronouns when discussing with S.O.s.)

[Beverley Sims]

You still have the man you started out with.
Maybe suggest he dress up passable as a girl occasionally and present as a man more often.
I think dressing in female clothes and passing as a man does not work at all.
Just get him to slow down a bit to satisfy you, because you most likely won't stop it completely.
If you have more concerns keep asking. There is plenty of good advice here.
If you are looking for a lasting relationship you will have to work at it.
All the best for now.

[Confusedandalone]

Thank you all. I'm not worried that he's gay but I'm just not attracted to him in women's clothes. He has finally acknowledge that I don't need to be attracted to him when he's dressed in women's clothes but it puts a huge strain on the relationship if that's the only way he's dressing. To be honest, hearing somebody else say he's being selfish is a huge relief. I've been afraid to even think it for fear that I wasn't being understanding enough.

We're both in our forties and have been together for almost 6 years. This isn't something he hid from me, it's a new thing for him too. For a variety of reasons there's nobody I can talk to about this and needless to say it is a sensitive subject between us. He has gotten better about really hearing my concerns but I still feel as if he's going to do whatever he wants.


It's been a really hard year for us. We lost a premature baby the end of July and as you can imagine that coupled with the trying to navigate cross dressing is exhausting. I can't begin to tell you how much the support from this forum means to me. Thank you all for being so kind.

[Chardonnay Merlot]

It's been a really hard year for us. We lost a premature baby the end of July and as you can imagine that coupled with the trying to navigate cross dressing is exhausting. I can't begin to tell you how much the support from this forum means to me. Thank you all for being so kind.

The above could possibly play a factor in why he may be dressing more than he might normally do. For me sometimes, stress can be a trigger.

In any case, like any relationship that has to be communication and room to compromise or it just doesn't work, and both sides need to be open to give a little.

Hold hands and stick together. It sounds like you two are doing that. :)

I love "male mode". I like my male clothes because they fit my personality, they're in the colors I like and I have thing for suits. I love power clothes.

I have no problems with my masculinity whatsoever. I enjoy the person I am as a man and wouldn't change that.

At the same time, I embrace this inner girl I have. I love my femininity and enjoy expressing just the same. It all a part of the whole person for me.

[ReineD]

To be honest, hearing somebody else say he's being selfish is a huge relief. I've been afraid to even think it for fear that I wasn't being understanding enough.

It's always nice when there's a natural ebb and flow between couples, when they are each aware of each other's needs and they accommodate one another. But, unfortunately it doesn't always happen naturally and sometimes things need to be spelled out. If this is all new to your husband he may be blissfully unaware of your needs?

There may be not too difficult ways to resolve this, but first would you mind providing a few more details?

1. Have you told him outright that you would like a specified amount of time when he does not put on women's things? If so, what has been his reaction?

2. What is the degree of "outedness" ... does he go out in your neighborhood/family functions/out with friends/etc with jewelry, women's shoes, tops, etc, or is this just at home? You said he wears these things all the time, is this to work as well?

3. If so, how comfortable are each of you with having everyone in your community know that your husband is a crossdresser?

4. Is the environment you live in amenable to cross gender expression ... do you live in a small town or an urban area, and do you feel there are social negative consequences to your husband wearing jewelry, women's shoes, tops, etc, when he's out and about? Or, does your husband think of his presentation choices as redefining for himself a more feminine men's style vs. outright crossdressing?

5. Does he ever dress fully as a woman with makeup, breast forms, etc? If not, would you be more open to a sharper division between his guy and femme presentations, meaning full on CDing in the next town over on a regular basis, with the time spent closer to home in full guy mode?

In short, what are your husband's goals with the CDing and what are your own limits, if any, as to presentation?

[Brenda79135]

If this is truely new to both of you as stated, he is like a child in a candy store. He wants everything he can get. But, like a child, he has to hear NO, you can't have everything. Responsibiltiy to you and the relationship is just as important as his dressing. Talk to him and start establishing boundries on his (and yours) attitudes in the relationship.

[Confusedandalone]

Thank you SO much. I just feel like crying lately from the stress if it all and I REALLY hate the half male/half female thing although I haven't told him that. He's so sensitive about the subject that it's difficult to have conversations. He's the youngest of three and definitely has the baby of the family mentality- I want what I want NOW. I just want some balance. He feels that if he compromises then he's not true to himself.

He does the half male/half female dressing all the time- work, home, whenever. He did dress in a suit for the memorial service but still had his purse. We obviously live in a community where he's physically safe to do it but it still leads to some uncomfortable situations. I have told him that due to the very limited opportunities we have to have a date that I was going to be selfish and ask him to be dressed only in mens clothes. Our schedules are so crazy busy what I wanted to be able to enjoy those rare opportunities with the man I started dating. And when I say only in mens clothes it always means there's panties underneath. He won't budge on that and I'm not willing to push that topic anymore

Sigh. I just feel so.... I don't even know what. Adrift? Lost? I love him and want to support him but I worry that the CD is more important than us and that maybe I need to wake-up and see that.

[Brianna612]

he is like a child in a candy store.

I liken my coming out to the candy store theme. When I finally became comfortable with my fem side I went all out. Would dress for days, makeup, long nails, formal and non formal gowns. I could care less about the people around me. I had to try it all to understand what I really needed. I did settle down and now have complete control of myself. I just needed to try all the different candy bars to know which ones taste good to me. What a trip. With that being said my relationship with my fem side Brianna, is like any other relationship, constantly changing and needs a tune-up every once in a while.

If s/he is in this stage you might expect much of the same until s/he figures out what s/he needs are. I went to a very good Therapist that greatly helped me find myself and clear my mind. Maybe a good couples Therapist with a understanding of TG issues would help see you through this. It is very nice for you two that you are willing to work with this. My X wife was not and after two visits to the Therapist she quit and that was it. With a little help sounds like you two will make it. Good Luck.

[Miriam-J]

We occasionally read of cases like this here, sometimes from the CD and others from the SO. The CD either fails to acknowledge their obvious selfishness, or regards their own needs as more important than their responsibility to the relationship. I read these stories with astonishment, especially since they're so contrary to the usual case described by several already in this thread where the CD is in admiration of the SO and seeks her good more than anything. I don't see how any of these cases can work out well - they seem just as bad as the hard Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) attitudes of many SOs.

Any of us involved in a relationship must care for the needs and desires of our partner, and it sounds as though you've tried hard to be understanding and accepting. At this point I think you need to assess the boundaries of your own comfort level and negotiate them with your husband. You might do well to check them for reasonableness here first, if only to have a good sounding board.

I wish you well as you struggle with this. Please feel free to send any private messages that you feel would help you work through it.

Miriam

[Inna]

I suppose first of, you need to have a clear perspective on what is going on!

Crossdressing as with any TG condition, surfaces despite individuals perspective on life, it simply isn't a choice!!!!!

And even though choosing to dress or not dress, seems to someone out side of this predicament as a choice between self and others around them, but it isn't!!!!!

Best analogy I can project is a fact of breathing. TG condition is inherent, it is within, just as the need to breath is an intrinsic to our survival. Breathing rejuvenates body as it is necessary to life, act of projecting an image consistent with female core within does the same to the spiritual part of someones life, without this expression they starting to die slowly within, just as their body would without the fresh breath of air.

He can not stop, and often, needs it more and more as he finds out about how his core being really needs it.

Now, all that said, it is based on someone truly TG, but such can only be determined by the therapy with a TG experienced therapist.

Do your selves favor and go for therapy to uncover the truth behind his condition, it will help you but even more so, will help him to understand him self.

[Tracii G]

You need to find a balance and he needs to be sensitive to your wishes too if he is not then he is being selfish IMO.
You deff are not alone in your thinking.
Have a talk and set some boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not.
I tend to mix the genders as far as clothes but when we are out together as a couple I tone it down and play the male role to be fair to her.

[Karren H]

You sound like my wife..... if I get too feminine... boom..... and you have every right to expect him to dress like you want..... its a partnership and you have the ruling vote.... imho... if he's not willing to do that for you then maybe its time to kick him to the curb?

[BRANDYJ]

Karen is right! You do have the ruling vote! You do have every right to set boundaries concerning his dressing habits. To be honest, if he chose to wear feminine things carry a purse and wear makeup while out with me as a friend, I'd refuse to be seen with him! You as his SO also have the right to say, dress like that in public, you can go alone.I refuse to be embarrassed being seen with you dressed this way. Time to put your foot down or plant it firmly in his rear end. Don't become a doormat to his selfish wants.

[Annie D]

I certainly understand what you are saying; it is the same thing that most of married cd'ers hear from our wives as well. You said that you think that he is sexy in a suit and you really wish that he would return to being that person and not the person who he is now. I believe that we are pretty much the same person who we were when we first met and got married. We have evolved somewhat, not into another person but to the person who we were all along. We are all like a slab of rock who the artist chips and fashions into a beautiful sculpture. He was there all along, it is just now that all the rough edges have been chiseled away.

Not speaking for your husband, I can say that when I am dressed as Annie, even wearing only a few feminine articles of clothing, I feel sexy. I have a picture of what I think is attractive, alluring and somewhat sexy in a woman and I simply want to present myself in a similar manner to my partner/wife. I am not turned off by seeing two women together as partners and although my wife doesn't necessarily share with my same sex acceptance, she allows me to express myself to her as my true self. Over time she has come to realize that I am the same person but I just dress differently at times.

In time, I hope you will accept him and understand that he still loves you the same way when he said " I do" whether in a man's suit or a woman's outfit.

[Kate Simmons]

Only he can answer that question Hon. To do that, however, he needs to find out who he is first. Feel free to PM me if you don't understand what I mean.:)

[Lady Slipper]

Confusedandalone, I wish I had more to offer than sympathy and support, but we are eager to help!

[ReineD]

Dressing half woman/half man is really ridiculous LOOKING to me (and my Tara feels the same way). No-this is NOT dressing as a male.

You two need to set up some BOUNDARIES. YOU need your MAN, & he needs to feel like a WOMAN ...hopefully 'sometimes' will do it for him?

This is a good point. Confusedandalone, how exactly does your SO see himself? Does he WANT to feel like a woman, or is he trying to express himself as a feminine male? There's a huge difference between the two. If he does want to feel like a woman, he is not presenting in a way that matches this. Has he expressed a desire to dress fully, or is he still trying to figure it out?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still trying to figure out what are your SO's ultimate goals, to make suggestions for appropriate compromises.


... actually, I do have a last question if you don't mind. Given your SO's needs to express femininity of some kind, what would be YOUR ideal compromise in terms of how he presents himself, whether he shaves or not, and what he does or where he goes when wearing feminine things?

[Dawn cd]

To Confusedandalone: I, too, am a married crossdesser who presents in an androgynous style. I don't wear dresses and wigs, but I usually carry a woman's bag, wear light makeup, oftentimes jewelry, unisex tops, underdress, etc. I feel that my style of dress is helping to expand men's fashion which has become locked in predictable and unattractive modes. Why shouldn't men be able to wear more colors and finer fabrics? And lots of men carry bags today! Maybe it offends you because you, too, have accepted the common expectations of what men should look like. Your spouse is trying to expand men's fashion, but you go around mewing about your wounded expectations. Get with the program! Be a companion instead of a drag. If you don't like his "purse," buy him another suitable for male or female modes. The manner of his presentation is something the two of you can still negotiate, but the fact of his interest is part of who he is. Don't lock him in the cell of rigid gender roles when he's trying to escape.

[Confusedandalone]

I've never said it offended me, but your characterization certainly does. Mewing? He's not trying to expand men's fashion choices. He prefers women's fashion choices. His purse is a purse and he'd prefer one MORE feminine, not something I would be more comfortable with. At what point does he need to be more of a companion to me?

I don't care if he escapes but I do care if it's at the expense of our relationship.

[Sarah Doepner]

Confused, a lot of earlier posts mention the discussion thing. Until you have that talk and he is aware of both your support for him and how his choices are effecting you, he is flying along happily believing you are 100% on board with him. If it's something that seems to difficult to bring up, you may want to try and get him involved here. As you can see there are a lot of us who have been through this and have your back and understand what he's facing as well.

He may feel pretty defensive when that door finally opens, so don't be surprised if he says some things that he may want to retract later. The pink fog can do strange things to our thought processes as well as what we believe we see in the mirror. If he's anything like me, he will take enough rope to hang himself good before realizing what has happened. Good luck to you both.

[Jamie001]

The OP wrote: "His version of CD at this point is women's clothes but still presenting as male (women's jewelry, shoes and maybe shirt, male jeans and jacket.) He sees this as still dressing male"

This is my mode all of the time. I consider myself to be a combination of male and female and usually wear women pants, women's sandals, red toenail polish, and a male shirt. I also carry a purse but it is not a really feminine style. I consider myself to be a "JaneGirl" which is the opposite of a "TomBoy". I am very comfortable expressing myself in this manner.

I believe that men's suits and ties are evil because the goal is to fore all men into a cookie-cuter image where everyone looks the same. Think about it. At a man's wedding he has the privilege of being dressed exactly the same as the waiter that is serving him food and drinks!! There is nothing sexy about a man's suit and tie. It is simply a uniform, whereas women's clothing has variety that allows for complete expression. Men's clothing is drab and BORING! If I had been born in the 1700's when men wore colorful clothing, wigs, and high-heels, I most likely would not be a crossdresser. To make the situation worse, men are taught that they must like the boring clothing options that are available to them, while women have been allowed over the years to incorporate almost all items from men's fashion into their wardrobe. There are even articles in women's magazines about how to incorporate boyfriend's shorts, shirts, men's watches, shoes, and other items into a woman's wardrobe, but there are never any articles in GQ Magazine describing how a man can incorporate women's fashion into his wardrobe. Do you realize that every style of men's shoes can also be found for women in the women's shoe department? There is definitely a double-standard that needs to be abolished.

[Miriam-J]

While a few of us may be most comfortable presenting in a mixed male/female mode, as noted in a couple of posts, I think they need to be more aware of the tension this places on the CD's SO. While a full femme presentation can pass and not attract attention, a mixed male/female appearance is nearly certain to attract attention - and that attention would be quite negative in many cases. If you as an individual are willing to accept this, or you are fortunate to have a wife and friends who don't mind, more power to you. But I don't think we can reasonably expect a partner to have such attentions imposed on them. Please cut some slack for a well-meaning SO who is trying to adjust to difficult circumstances.

Miriam

[suchacutie]

Welcome to the forum!

When my wife and I discovered my feminine side, Tina, we did it together during our 34th year of marriage. I was overwhelmed with the fact that she was as curious about Tina as I was, so when she said that she was not attracted to my feminine self in any kind of erotic way I was more than willing to understand that point and was determined to meet her at least half way. I told her that nothing should ever come between us, and her enthusiasm about Tina led me to state that I certainly wanted to investigate Tina as much as possible, but when she wanted her man, she would get him, hands down. We also were of the same mind that my gendered selves are to be kept as separate as possible with clear demarcations: when it's Tina then it really IS Tina...all the way...no half-way measures...no confusions. When I'm male, then although I may wear panties, nothing on the outside would indicate that I am anything but male. Again, no confusion!

We thrive this way as it's a simple compromise. The marriage comes first and there are just times that we need each other as man and wife. When Tina is around we are best girlfriends and it is really fun for both of us.

I do hope you and your spouse can sit down and have an empathy for each other that will allow your marriage to grow and not wither.

My best to you!

[Jamie001]

While a few of us may be most comfortable presenting in a mixed male/female mode, as noted in a couple of posts, I think they need to be more aware of the tension this places on the CD's SO. While a full femme presentation can pass and not attract attention, a mixed male/female appearance is nearly certain to attract attention - and that attention would be quite negative in many cases. If you as an individual are willing to accept this, or you are fortunate to have a wife and friends who don't mind, more power to you. But I don't think we can reasonably expect a partner to have such attentions imposed on them. Please cut some slack for a well-meaning SO who is trying to adjust to difficult circumstances.

Miriam

You are correct that a mixed-male-female presentation (e.g. a male wearing a a combination of male and female items) may attract attention, but a person that is fully crossdressed that does not pass will attract even more attention. In my opinion, the mixed-male-female presentation can be more readily accepted because it is the same as what many women (TomBoys) do today by incorporating men's fashion into their overall look. These women are NOT trying to pass as a man yet they are accepted when incorporating men's fashion items. Men can do the same by incorporating women's fashion items into their presentation without attempting to pass as a woman. Why doesn't everyone see this?

[joan47]

My male mode is arylic nails, thin shaped eyebrows, ear rings, shaved legs, girls jeans or leggings and a girls top, plus a little make-up.

[linda allen]

I'm really struggling with my SOs crossdressing. It's new to both of us but I'm feeling like the guy I fell in love with has vanished. I'm not attracted to women and I find his CD disconcerting. I much prefer him dressed as a man. However, he wants to dress as a woman all the time. His version of CD at this point is women's clothes but still presenting as male (women's jewelry, shoes and maybe shirt, male jeans and jacket.) He sees this as still dressing male.

Am I wrong to want to see him in a suit? I find him sexy as hell as a man and I wasn't looking for a new girlfriend!

"Male Mode" is dressed and acting like a typical male.

It seems that you really want some other questions answered and I suggest using a more direct thread title for advice on how to deal with your husband's dressing.

[BRANDYJ]

To Confusedandalone: I, too, am a married crossdesser who presents in an androgynous style. I don't wear dresses and wigs, but I usually carry a woman's bag, wear light makeup, oftentimes jewelry, unisex tops, underdress, etc. I feel that my style of dress is helping to expand men's fashion which has become locked in predictable and unattractive modes. Why shouldn't men be able to wear more colors and finer fabrics? And lots of men carry bags today! Maybe it offends you because you, too, have accepted the common expectations of what men should look like. Your spouse is trying to expand men's fashion, but you go around mewing about your wounded expectations. Get with the program! Be a companion instead of a drag. If you don't like his "purse," buy him another suitable for male or female modes. The manner of his presentation is something the two of you can still negotiate, but the fact of his interest is part of who he is. Don't lock him in the cell of rigid gender roles when he's trying to escape.

HARSH, insensitive, and comparing apples to oranges.


I've never said it offended me, but your characterization certainly does. Mewing? He's not trying to expand men's fashion choices. He prefers women's fashion choices. His purse is a purse and he'd prefer one MORE feminine, not something I would be more comfortable with. At what point does he need to be more of a companion to me?
I don't care if he escapes but I do care if it's at the expense of our relationship.

You tell 'em ConfusedandNotsoalone! Expand men's fashion choices???? Almost laughable! Wearing women's clothes, makeup and carrying a purse is anything but expanding men's fashions. In fact, it looks so bad it will do the opposite in my opinion. Why can't women be women and men be men with all the differences that most of us find sexy, attractive and very normal?
OH yeah, why can't us "normal" crossdressers be just that; Men who like to dress and act like what we love, admire, adore and yes...lust after. Most of us put on wigs, padding, makeup and whatever else needed to make ourselves look as much like a genuine female as possible. A very small minority wants to dress in skirts and dresses in public without trying to look like a genuine female. Personally, as a male and as a CD, I'm glad! To me, nothing looks so ridiculous.
I understand how those that do this gender bender dressing can in fact be a huge embarrassment to their wives. I can understand why GG's such as the OP are upset, and turned off by the whole thing and turned off to a very insensitive, selfish mate that puts his dressing needs or wants before the happiness and comfort level of his wife.

No Confusdedandalone, you DON"T have to "get with the program", your SO is the one that needs to get with the program!

[ReineD]

Confusedandalone, you have every right to talk about your feelings here and I think that Dawn owes you an apology for using that term.


Expand men's fashion choices???? Almost laughable! Wearing women's clothes, makeup and carrying a purse is anything but expanding men's fashions.

It is true that not every male who wears feminine clothing attempts to present as a woman. There are men who present as men but who like to wear either women's things, or a male version of what was previously considered female apparel (man-skirts, purses for men, heels for men, etc) and they do see it as redefining male fashion. And, well, they ARE redefining male fashion. Here are some examples:

http://scene.skirt.com/images/100119/photos/2009/03/24/gallery/43053.jpg (skirt)
http://cakenotcoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/marc-in-skirt.jpg (skirt)
http://www.skortman.com/SleepSkirtPage1.htm (sleep-skirt)
http://thegloss.com/fashion/the-man-purse/ (purses)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/10/16/fashion/16HEELS/16HEELS-popup.jpg (heels)
http://www.wikihow.com/Apply-Makeup-as-a-Man (make-up)

They're even on the runway:
http://www.theurbanapparel.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Mens-Skirt6.jpg
http://www.theurbanapparel.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Mens-Skirt12.jpg

There's no way that I'd define the men in these pictures as crossdressers the way that we, in this forum, have come to view them or at least picture them in our mind's eyes. Just look at the contrast between the pics above and the pics in the Gallery.

Granted, the reactions to these men might be mixed depending on how well they pull off the look. Some of these men might just be seen as gay if they don't pull it off well and it is apparent that they are wearing things that are designed for women, simply because most people aren't used to seeing men wear these things and also, traditionally, feminine men are associated with homosexuality. Also, if the skirt, top, purse, jewelry, scarves, etc are too feminine looking on a male that otherwise presents as a male, this will create a mismatch in most people's eyes and they'll be confused. But, some men do pull it off if the item worn is masculine looking enough and they are masculine looking too.

There's a fine line between redefining men's styles as above, and truly being a CDer who wants to present as a woman, but who feels who can't for various reasons and so he incorporates only a few feminine things. It's a question of motives.

But yes, there are men who do wish to break down the gender barriers and who wish to appropriate items of clothing that have traditionally been reserved for women, and who do not see themselves as crossdressers (the way that we undertand them here). If you think about it, women did the same thing, last century. We appropriated items of men's clothing, while not attempting to look like them, and so now we have redefined women's fashion to include pants. No one today outside of some of the CDers in this forum would say that a woman who wears pants is masculine. :D

This is why I was asking you earlier, Confusedandalone, how does your SO see himself, since according to your description he does not attempt to look feminine? If you could answer this, then maybe we can give you more meaningful advice.

[Confusedandalone]

Well, you've hit it on the head- he doesn't see himself as a CD the way most of you here would see it which in some ways makes this even more difficult. He would also like to see me play more the male role when we go out. I do point out to him that it only works if he doesn't keep walking in front of me to open the damn door! :)

Sigh.

[Tracii G]

I think I'm confused with his actions as you are to be honest.
Just not sure where he is coming from.Its not healthy to your relationship if he is pushing this thing too far.
I think he needs to step back and look at the big picture.
Blending genders as far as clothes goes has its limits IMO when you have a male/female relationship going.
Each needs to know the boundaries.

[Michelle V]

Compromise, Cross dressers involved with wives and girlfriends like any relationship have to compromise and find a middle ground that will ensure happiness to both parties, we tend to be selfish as males, it only gets worst when we find out female side and enjoy it to a point of caring only about ourselves. Communication and honesty will help you determine where you stand in your relationship, I wish you both the best.

[Jenniferathome]

And lots of men carry bags today! Maybe it offends you because you, too, have accepted the common expectations of what men should look like.

On planet earth? No. I travel the world, frequently and "men" are not carrying bags unless you include backpacks. Men don't carry bags because we have pockets and we don't need or use more than that which is in our pockets. You are falsely projecting your desires of what you want to be reality on to us men who live in reality.

[ReineD]

Well, you've hit it on the head- he doesn't see himself as a CD the way most of you here would see it which in some ways makes this even more difficult. He would also like to see me play more the male role when we go out. I do point out to him that it only works if he doesn't keep walking in front of me to open the damn door! :)

Sigh.

Ah! Well, that puts a whole other slant on your situation and you're right, it makes things more difficult to define, exactly. If he is using purses that look like the "man-bags" that I posted above, although they haven't taken off in North America, I think they are more common overseas among certain age groups. You also mentioned jewelry, tops, and shoes earlier. Is this the type of jewelry that is unmistakably feminine, or is it something that a guy would wear? As to the tops, are they frilly girlie tops or are they more androgynous looking, like polo shirts? And the shoes ... there are many shoes that are unisex (Teva sandals, or sneakers, for example). Does he wear unisex shoes?

In other words, do other people when looking at him raise their eyebrows in any way? If not ... if he is not wearing obviously feminine things, then people will not take him to be a crossdresser. This is just so hard to pin-point without pics. I wish you had a pic of what your husband wears. Anyway, if the items he wears are obviously feminine looking, then the two of you have to cope with people thinking that he is either gay or odd (depending on the circles you move in). He may be blissfully unaware of how he is viewed since most people keep their opinions to themselves, but it may matter to YOU. Is this what bothers you ... the idea that his style of dressing is unconventional? Or do you have any qualms about your husband looking too feminine or wanting to feel more feminine? Or both?

It would be so much easier to talk about this if there were pics, since you can well imagine there is such a wide spectrum to wearing any type of unconventional clothing. Also, what is unconventional in one area and age group might not be unconventional in another ... for example, living on the cutting edge in San Francisco vs. a small town in the midwest. :p

Edit
As to you playing a male role when you go out, don't do it unless you absolutely want to. He may want to be a gender-bender but he has no right to insist that you should be too, if you do not feel comfortable doing this. If you feel feminine, then by all means express your femininity as much as you want to. :)

[CD_blue]

I am cross dressed at home most of the time but when I go out of the house I am not dressed as female (as of now).

When I first got into this my fiance was/is fully supportive to the extreme. With that said she at the beginning said she still wanted to see me dressed as a guy. I think as someone else said it is a partnership and if this is what you want then he should be willing to do what makes you happy also. To me... It isn’t like you are asking him to give it up but just dress up sometimes as the way you find sexy for you. He should consider doing just for your benefit imho.

Yet I do understand him saying “This is male mode to me now”. My male mode actually still does consist of some female clothing simply because I find them more comfortable. I only wear female jeans for example (though you can’t really tell their different than mens jeans). I don’t wear mens underwear again simply because they aren’t as comfortable. What I sleep in is just pajamas to me, and I found them through cross dressing though they are still just pajamas to me. Nothing like nightgown, rather I actually sleep in comfy womens pants, leggings, something along those lines. To me I still find this “male mode” but I do see where you coming from. He might have something of same mind set you need to go over with him and tell him you don’t consider it male mode. If my fiance did I would understand because to me it’s still unisex but to her it may not be. Goes back to partnership thing.

There needs to be compromise in this on his end imho. If my fiance told me that she would like me to dress a certain way sometimes as pure male I would do so. She does after all support me fully in my cross dressing so it would equal out imho.

[Jamie001]

HARSH, insensitive, and comparing apples to oranges.



You tell 'em ConfusedandNotsoalone! Expand men's fashion choices???? Almost laughable! Wearing women's clothes, makeup and carrying a purse is anything but expanding men's fashions. In fact, it looks so bad it will do the opposite in my opinion. Why can't women be women and men be men with all the differences that most of us find sexy, attractive and very normal?
OH yeah, why can't us "normal" crossdressers be just that; Men who like to dress and act like what we love, admire, adore and yes...lust after. Most of us put on wigs, padding, makeup and whatever else needed to make ourselves look as much like a genuine female as possible. A very small minority wants to dress in skirts and dresses in public without trying to look like a genuine female. Personally, as a male and as a CD, I'm glad! To me, nothing looks so ridiculous.
I understand how those that do this gender bender dressing can in fact be a huge embarrassment to their wives. I can understand why GG's such as the OP are upset, and turned off by the whole thing and turned off to a very insensitive, selfish mate that puts his dressing needs or wants before the happiness and comfort level of his wife.

No Confusdedandalone, you DON"T have to "get with the program", your SO is the one that needs to get with the program!

Yes, it looks as ridiculous as women wearing pants, or women wearing tattoos, or women wearing backpacks, or women wearing men's shoes, or women wearingmen's watches or any other men's fashion. "Get with the program of Gender Equality Regarding Fashion". Men's fashion is an oxymoron while women can choose from both sides of the store.

[Jamie001]

Reine,

It is important to understand that there is nothing wrong with a male attempting to look more feminine just as some women attempt to look more masculine. It is simply who they are and they get to a point where they are no longer comfortable living a lie.

[Jamie001]

On planet earth? No. I travel the world, frequently and "men" are not carrying bags unless you include backpacks. Men don't carry bags because we have pockets and we don't need or use more than that which is in our pockets. You are falsely projecting your desires of what you want to be reality on to us men who live in reality.

Then you have never been to Asia or Europe. Men carry messenger bags and other types of purses. There is nothing more unsightly than lumpy pockets from stuffing them full of junk. Not needing more that what is in your pockets is a very minimalistic/utilitarian masculine attitude. I'm surprised to hear this from a fellow crossdresser - Jenniferathome?

[CD_blue]

Then you have never been to Asia or Europe. Men carry messenger bags and other types of purses. There is nothing more unsightly than lumpy pockets from stuffing them full of junk. Not needing more that what is in your pockets is a very minimalistic/utilitarian masculine attitude. I'm surprised to hear this from a fellow crossdresser - Jenniferathome?

If there was one thing in this world I wish I could be comfortable with using 24/7 out in public is a purse. I have to carry so much stuff there is no way I can't fit in my pockets and end up carrying most of it. I am bad about losing everything lol. Cell phone, keys, everything under the sun you can think of. Men carrying purses to me is just sense able. Just would make life easier lol.

[Jamie001]

Reine, et al,

Why can folks simply accept the concept of a JaneGirl which is the opposite of a TomBoy that we are all familiar with? There are women that are more masculine as are there men who are more feminine and they like to express that through fashion. Look at all of the drab garbage that is available in men's fashion! When a man gets married he can get dressed-up so that he looks exactly like the waiter that is serving his food and drink! Men have not had fashion since the 1700's. Men's fashion (oxymoron) is a joke that has been perpetuated by society for several hundred years that results in almost zero self expression. On the other hand, in women's magazines there are several articles every month about how to incorporate articles from the men's side of the store into a woman's wardrobe, however everyone crys foul if a man incorporates feminine items.

Double-standard?

[ReineD]

Reine, et al,

Why can folks simply accept the concept of a JaneGirl which is the opposite of a TomBoy that we are all familiar with?

Speaking for myself, I'm not saying he can or he can't be a JaneGirl. It's not my call. :p But throughout a bulk of this thread, people thought that Confusedandalone's SO was presenting in a way that it turns out he isn't (possibly ... C&A has not confirmed this yet). When the description is rather loose, people tend to substitute a mental image that they're familiar with, such as a classic gender-bender guy who is wearing bright pink stilettos, blingy girlie jewelry, feminine-looking purse, frilly tops, or whatever. But, the SO may in fact be wearing unisex shoes, a polo shirt that no one can tell was bought in a women's store, and a plain-looking, functional, unisex leather shoulder bag, which would change the picture tremendously.

This is why I am asking Confusedandalone so many questions. :p

I'm trying to determine how the SO is presenting, exactly, so that the advice given is more meaningful. Whether we like it or not, a man presenting in a flagrant gender-bender way will cause different reactions among people than someone who isn't. I am not placing a value judgment on anyone's choice of presentation. But, I do recognize that society in general looks askance (depending on their age group and where they live) at men who wear pink tutus in public, if I can use this as an extreme example to convey my meaning.

If you or anyone else wants to present as a Janegirl (wearing things that are beyond what most people would associate with males), be my guest! lol. But unfortunately, the reality is that if you go to a job interview dressed like that you likely won't get the job. And if C&A's SO does dress like this, then C&A has something to say on the matter since it impacts both their lives. But, if the SO dresses in a way that doesn't raise most people's eyebrows (if no one has a clue that he is wearing the polo top bought as a women's department store, for example), then maybe C&A needs to stop seeing it as CDing for her own sanity, since there is no potential negative impact.

Really, this could be a case similar to a young couple, for example Spouse A who likes to wear rather flamboyant goth clothes with long, died black hair, long dark fingernails, all black clothes, and spiked collar to Spouse B's rather conservative office party, and Spouse B asking Spouse A to tone it down somewhat. This example really has nothing to do with gender. But, if Spouse B goes into a CDer forum and describes Spouse A wearing long hair, fingernails, and jewelry, the membership will take it as CDing when it isn't. If this makes sense.

But until C&A tells us how feminine her husband is dressing exactly, we just don't know.

[Tracii G]

Reine I'm wondering all the things you are I just don't have enough info in just how he presents in public.
She can't post a pic because I'm assuming he is not a member here.
I applaud her for coming here and asking questions in hopes of finding and understanding what is going on with him.

[flatlander_48]

I've never said it offended me, but your characterization certainly does. Mewing? He's not trying to expand men's fashion choices. He prefers women's fashion choices. His purse is a purse and he'd prefer one MORE feminine, not something I would be more comfortable with. At what point does he need to be more of a companion to me?

I don't care if he escapes but I do care if it's at the expense of our relationship.

Don't discount the possibility of working through all of this with a professional counselor. It is often helpful to have a third party in the room to keep things from getting out of hand. If the discussion does get out of hand, sometimes it is hard to find your way back by yourself.

[Angiemead12]

My wife has made it explicitly clear that if I present more fulltime in public then she will definitely loose interest with me as a lover but will be there to support me as a friend. Although I may have wishful thinking we have discussed this over and over again and again and I am grateful still and shouldn't ask for anything more but I do, I think we all do. As I get use to the fact that I can go out and be free I also crush the image of a man that she fell in love with. Right now we are trying to strike a balance of couse, but it seems like the only win win situation is to have weeks of none dressing male mode and then have weeks of dressing female mode.

Im still looking for that balance to make her and I happy because in the end for me she was the one who helped me discover myself and allowed me to grow as a femme boy.

[Jamie001]

If there was one thing in this world I wish I could be comfortable with using 24/7 out in public is a purse. I have to carry so much stuff there is no way I can't fit in my pockets and end up carrying most of it. I am bad about losing everything lol. Cell phone, keys, everything under the sun you can think of. Men carrying purses to me is just sense able. Just would make life easier lol.

There is nothing stopping you from carrying a purse, especially with all of the gadgets that we carry now-a-days. Tumi sells messenger bags and purses that are unisex if you don't want to carry an obviously feminine purse. I have been carrying a purse for 20 years. It is just part of me.

[ReineD]

Reine I'm wondering all the things you are I just don't have enough info in just how he presents in public.
She can't post a pic because I'm assuming he is not a member here.

No, I didn't mean posting a pic of his face or anything. But maybe posting links to items of clothing that she finds online that are similar to the ones he wears.

To Confusedandalone, if your SO doesn't see himself as a CD the way we think of CDers here, and if for example he wears things like this:

(women's shirt) http://www.thedealrack.com/p-531-chestnut-hill-womens-long-sleeve-pima-cotton-poplin-button-down-dress-shirt-ch590w.aspx
(women's shoes) http://www.onlineshoes.com/womens-rockport-jackie-penny-loafer-black-smooth-leather-p_id230993

I think (although I'm not sure) that people will give you different advice than if he wears something like this:

(women's shirt) http://www.coldwatercreek.com/product-detail/57720/64110/pintuck-linen-tunic.aspx?colorid=E45&refLink=search.aspx
(women's shoes) http://www.zappos.com/franco-sarto-cicero-black-leather

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't have opinions about his choice of wearing women's clothing. The two of you would want to talk about why he feels more comfortable wearing women's things even if it isn't apparent, what motivates him (does he want to gender-bend, is he wanting to be incognito or not, does he foresee ramping it up in the future), or any other concerns you might have. The circles that you move in might be ultra conservative and even a messenger bag might cause your friends/families/coworkers to believe that your SO is homosexual or metrosexual. If this is your situation, are you more concerned about people believing this than any concerns you may have about his wanting to be feminine?

LOL. You really need to give us more details. You can clearly see that some members are still thinking that your SO is presenting in a typical CDer fashion, so a large chuck of the advice you're receiving simply does not apply to your situation.

[Daphne Renee]

you are not wrong but then again neither is he. I am sure you might be scratching your head on this answer. What I mean to say is you both have the right to feel the way you do. There really is no black and white right wrong kind of thing here. Maybe this is somewhat new to him also. When people find something new they like they sometimes go a little overboard. People throw around the word boundaries. Be careful it cant be one sided.. Discuss this with him. What are his intentions or does he even know? Find a middle ground. something BOTH of you can agree on as a compromise. Maybe you could say ok we can go out as girlfriends once a week.. If you feel more comfortable go out of town once a month.. Not saying these exactly but something like that.. you could say its ok if you go out to clubs or whatever as your fem self. but i want a man in the bedroom. Again these are just suggestions you have to decide what will work for the two of you. whatever you please dont adopt the "its my way or the highway" attitude. By coming on here I am assuming you really want things to work out between the two of you. I personally think that great as many on here wish their s/o would do the same.