I am a bit confused...

[JackieInPA]

Ever since I have been self aware enough to realize that boys and girls are different I have NEVER been happy to have been born a male. I have tried to express my female self as much as possible going through all kinds of trials and tribulations, I don't have to explain to you all because you have been there, culminating in a catastrophic mental breakdown almost a decade ago that i still haven't fully recovered from. It shattered my sense of self, my ability to cope with stress, if i didn't have such a HUGE belief that suicide was wrong, and that things would only be worse afterwards (succeed or not) I probably wouldn't have survived it.

Since the breakdown I am not really able to suppress my desire to be female. I am constantly pushing the boundaries of what my wife will allow. I own 1 male suit and maybe a handful of male shirts for when i absolutely have to 'butch up'. I spend most of my time unhappy, but for medical, financial, and family reasons, I still love my wife and she won't stay with me if i fully transition, I cannot totally transition. I have a semi transition going on where I am at the point that at casual glance even when not really trying i am usually taken for female. When I try unless i am forced to 'out' myself by showing ID or by people i have known for a long time I am taken as female about 95% of the time.

Now for the confusion part... I haven't really posted in this forum much (if at all) because I don't really feel welcome because i (for whatever reason) am not totally abandoning every aspect of male life. I have the same mental issues, the same desires, the same feelings, but I love my wife dearly and couldn't bear to lose her, so I endure this life.

In many threads in this forum I see the attitude that if you don't transition you don't count, no matter what else you have been through. Tonight i decided to post after being really upset by references to threads being cluttered up by non-transitioners. I leave this section of the forum disheartened many times by what seems to be a sense of us/them rather than a supportive community.

I generally don't care to be labeled by others. You are not me, I am not just what you see and hear so I am not asking which label i should be claiming, transgender, transsexual, cross-dresser, etc, because I don't really care. I know who and what I am. What i want to know is is this section of the forum only for those that are actively going to transition, or is it for anyone who feels like we do but for whatever reason cannot fully or even partially transition as well.

I can understand at times there will be threads that deal with specifics about transitioning...not saying there shouldn't be....but to say that we detract from a thread because we can't fully understand is very demeaning to me. Just because we are not in you shoes does not mean we can't understand or have useful input.

I am not looking for hate, to anger anyone, to cause a fight, I just want to know if I should keep coming to this section of the forums, or if I am just going to be frustrated and saddened.

[Nicole Erin]

People on forums are gonna bicker no matter what. There is always gonna be someone saying "You are not a real TS". I am not a "real" TS by some of their standards either. It is up to the person to decide how to live, it is not up to some random person on the web.
So, feel free to post wherever. :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I feel very sad for you that you need to transition but can't, and i know what its like to experience things you described in the first paragraph
I don't think non-transitioners are left behind or don't count.

I do see sometimes people that have transitioned have a viewpoint that would seem hurtful to you...but i think its something that you have to deal with and separate out comments that may be malicious and inconsiderate..

From my observation , almost every negative comment towards a non transitioner is based on someone pushing back against advice that comes from a perspective that doesn't understand what its like to transition
,...and not about people that are not ts...(even though sometimes its both).... people that risk their livlihood, go through expensive and painful changes and lose loved ones over transition are not interested in being told what to do by people that haven't...and

it does often detract from threads about transition...some advice is worth less than nothing, a doctor giving stock tips can cost somebody a fortune..

other negative comments are directed against people that come here filled with malice and underlying phobia (that doesn't come out until they are challenged)..that has nothing to do with sincere and honest posts like your OP...

[noeleena]

Hi,

Can i say, what does not break you, will make you,

im one very strong woman a real one & live my life as one, im well known, other than the many forums im on, involved with many people in the 1000's & yes iv had issues to go through . & the sad thing is or was it was in a commuity i thought would help others, in some ways some did yet in others it was a put down. & thats here in New Zealand,

Iv had the boot kicked at myself a few times from trans people, no tollerance, yea it hurt so i pulled away, i wont have any thing to do with them now, long gone.....

My real friends are the women i know who are just so neat to be around, work with & spend lots of time with, its called acceptance of one who is different, yet is a part of them, so reading between the lines ,.....get with the women..... okay.

& it really does not matter, we are , all said & done humans who are different. so what who really gives a damm, like my friends they dont . if i can be accepted then think about your self,, you can to.

...noeleena...

[I Am Paula]

If you don't label yourself, nobody has anything to whine about. You are your own category, and very real to you.

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I don't think you're fairly characterizing the forum content. What I've seen here is a very broad based discussion, often very blunt and without sugar coating or illusions, about transitioning in particular. These post aren't meant to impart warm and fuzzier, nor can they solve your issues with yourself and your wife. They reflect the real life experience of people dealing with transgenderism in the best and sometimes perhaps, not the best ways they can.

[KellyJameson]

What people do with their fear will decide how they relate to others because it is the starting point of everything else so if they are controlled by fear their emotions and intellectual thought will be affected.

Slowly science is uncovering evidence that the brains of transsexuals show sexually dimorphic differences that are unique to them.

There is a stong relationship between transsexuality and aspergers where the incidence of aspergers in the transsexual community is higher as a percentage than would be expected and if you spend time on aspergers forums this is a common topic.

Science still debates the existence of or reasons for aspergers and the methods for diagnosis are very subjective much like for gender dysporia and transsexuality.

In my opinion transsexuality has its own unique spectrum and even though the condition is the same the suffering is not and age along with life experience will strongly influence the pain.

It is thought of as a birth defect that needs to be corrected so it is the need to correct it not the birth defect that partially decides the actions taken, there is a tension between defect and need that is unique to each person so the tension is experienced by every transsexual but the degree is different allowing a different response from person to person so some can stay married but suffer and others must let go of the marriage because the tension becomes overwhelming and destructive.

Anyone who tells you that you are not a transsexual because you do not transition is showing the same cruelty that was shown to them by others when they were told they were not.

There is almost a universal fragility in the world of the CD/TG/TS that can make many very aggressive because they are so easily threatened and I think of this as the cumulation of all the attacks as rejection of and on self that they have sustained over a lifetime so we become vessels of fear and anger.

When you feel worthless as a human being you cling to symbols to support what little sense of self and value that you are able to and being born transsexual is almost a guranteed path to low self esteem.

In the TG community there is almost an obsession on physical beauty that far outstrips anything I have experienced with cis gendered females, beauty becomes a defining attribute that proves and supports the internal feminine and beyond the gender dysphoria are serious body dysmorphic disorders that would rival and exceed any teenage incidence or example.

In my opinion it is as important to protect yourself from the TG community as it is from the non TG community so you must for your own protection choose who you associate with very carefully.

In my opinion it is as important to understand the implications of being transsexual as it is to transition, if you change the body without knowing the mind you will still be in serious psychological danger.

Anne Vitale talks about problems that follow those who transition for years afterward.

http://www.avitale.com/PostOpPlusFive.htm

Whether you post on the forum or not it is absolutely critical to not allow others to define you or make their acceptance important.

The nature of transsexualism tends to isolate you partly by choice for self protection and partly by the circumstances that the experience causes creating barriers to bonding with others with the same ease experienced by those who are not transsexual.

We learn about who we are from others and being transsexual to differing degrees prevents this so like a person who is drowning we grab onto others frantically looking for self definition of something that cannot be defined by others giving them a power to define us that they do not deserve or can comprehend

Do not make the body the measurement of your transsexuality using the word transsexuality as a measurement of being female brained in that your brain has the sexually dimorphic characteristics of the female brain.

The body follows the brain, the brain does not follow the body. Each influences the other but the brain decides the initial and continuous rythmn.

Time becomes your enemy in the presence of hopelessness but part of escaping the pain is understanding yourself so a journal or reading may be just as necessary as electrolysis, FFS,HRT and SRS.

You decide if you are transsexual, no one else. Learn from others but do not allow others to define you. The answers to you are already inside you and it is only learning the words to make this know to you.

[Saffron]

Jackie you have all my support. I want also to stand up for this forum, we all must realize that TS have been through a lot, and also HRT could make a person very jumpy or emotional. It's not easy to keep calm and cool always, discussions can happen in the best families.


But in the end we are all here for the same, to find our happiness :)

[ChelseaErtel]

Jackie: Others have said it well so I'll just as my two cents. This forum supports every flavor of TG/TS/CD. That being the case, you will get all extremes of beliefs and everything in between.

However, you will find that after you read what has been written you will discover girls who have you know are of a common mind set, that are thoughtful, caring and truly concern about others they meet through this forum. So, when you post, those will be the ones that matter to you most. You will also find others as you post who you can begin to trust and know they are speaking from their heart and are doing the very best for you and your particular situation.

I don't think you will or can anger anyone. Your feelings are not unusual. I classify myself as a Transsexual and want to transition ASAP. But I'm deliberately slowing myself down and due to family issues, holding off for a little. So be of good cheer, you will find comfort here, I have, just keep in mind everyone is relaying their opinion based on their experiences and you have the responsibility to dismiss, mold, or adhere to their advise.

I send my love and hugs to you and your family,

Chelsea

[FurPus63]

Hi Jackie,
I have family in Wilkes Barre, PA so I feel a certain connection to you. I would just like to say that it does seem true that in most cases, transitioning means divorce. I put up with severe alcoholism and all kinds of behavior problems with my x-wife for years. But when I told her of my desire to live as a woman, divorce was her only solution. Women feel betrayed as if they've been or are being cheated on. The only thing is the "other woman" is ourselves! It's a horrible position to be in when you love your wife but are having overwhelming compulsive feelings and desires to live female.

It is so sad and so unfortunate that divorce seems to be the only answer. Some very rare couples are able to continue their marriage, but the percentage (I think) is so small. It really is a sad fate for those of us who are in your shoes.

That being said, I've got to make some harsh statements. I don't want to hurt your feelings and please don't take it wrong. It's not personal. I say this with all the love and compassion I can send/give to someone. Since I seperated and eventually divorced my x and started living my life 24/7 as a woman, including hormone treatments, I am living a life of pure joy! A lifetime of depression is now gone. Like a black cloud always looming over my head, it's disappated and now there's only sunshine all around me! Of course I still have "depressed feelings," we all experience that from time to time; but that overwhelming depression (what's commonly called clinical or chronic depression) is gone! It's like a miracle for me.

I have truly been blessed beyond my imagination and the joy I experience at just being a woman, over rides any other thing I experience in my daily life. This is because no matter what happens, no matter how "shitty" my day's been at the end of the day, I'm still a woman! There's a lot more details I could write about (and would in private) but I think you get the picture.

So...unfortunately all I can say is if there is any way possible you can leave your wife and get divorced. You should. I'm so sorry to say this because I know it hurts you. I'm not saying you can't post here, I feel bad that you feel that way. We all can support you no matter what you do. I'm sure most women here will. However; speaking as a mental health professional, my goal is to always offer advice that is based on the opinion that what makes us the most mentally healthy is the correct thing to do. The misery you are describing wont go away or get better if you stay in your current situation. That's my opinion. Just being honest. I sincerely hope and pray you will be o.k. and in the end will make the most healthy decision.

Paulette

[Kathryn Martin]

Hi Jackie:

You are always welcome to come here and comment and post like all of us. Just remember that "This forum is for those with the external genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics of one sex, but whose personal identification and psychosocial configuration is that of the opposite sex."

I think it is never about labeling someone. But there are are medical and psychological indicators that point to one or another diagnosis. For the most part it requires us to self diagnose and then seek help to deal with the outfall of our understanding of self.

One of the interesting things in your comment that struck me was that you refer to yourself as "my female self" which you need to express. In another part of your post you refer to your "desire to be female". In contemplating what you wrote a question arose for me regarding the contradiction in these statements. I think exploring this contradiction could be very useful for you.

I think that you will find that everyone counts here, even if at times what counts might not be positive. Sometimes, when some of us who are much further along in the process or have full transitioned past surgery talk about our experiences, then what we describe is not a matter of debate or discussion but rather the conveyance of our experience. Debating whether what we say is true or valid is a questioning of the authenticity of our experience which is effectively a denial of our existence.

I think you will find that most of the post-ops and transitioners far along in their transition very much remember where they came from and the heartache and struggles they went through. We know the cost of it all. Like you I kept silent for too many years and for love of spouse, family and friends delayed what eventually turned out to be inevitable. I have friends that are transsexuals and never transitioned because of it. I honor them and listen and help as I can. I am saddened by your struggle and by the unresolvable conflict in your love for your wife and struggle with your self. I have been there.

[Rianna Humble]

I haven't really posted in this forum much (if at all) because I don't really feel welcome because i (for whatever reason) am not totally abandoning every aspect of male life. I have the same mental issues, the same desires, the same feelings, but I love my wife dearly and couldn't bear to lose her, so I endure this life.

I am really sorry that you have felt unwelcome here. This part of the forum is for all those who self-identify as TS regardless of whether circumstances make them put some aspects on hold. You should be applauded for loving your wife, not made to feel unwelcome. I hope that none of my words have made you feel like that.


In many threads in this forum I see the attitude that if you don't transition you don't count, no matter what else you have been through. Tonight I decided to post after being really upset by references to threads being cluttered up by non-transitioners. I leave this section of the forum disheartened many times by what seems to be a sense of us/them rather than a supportive community.

I hope that there are enough of us who care to make it worth your while sticking around. I know that lately there have been a few threads where people who don't want to understand have turned the discussion into an us versus them flame war, but hopefully that should be at an end now and the haters should not be so prominent.

It hasn't helped when those of us who are transitioning or have transitioned are accused by someone who ought to know better of holding out full transition as the only good option. I certainly do not believe that in the least.

If you can make a go of your marriage and your life without going through the pain of transition, I will be there applauding you, but if there are difficult times, I can think of numerous regulars of this section who, like me, would want to be there for you.

[Marleena]

Jackie these are only my thoughts. I think red flags go up in this section when somebody suddenly appears here with no diagnosis that they are TS. You can feel or know you are TS but it's my own experience that the GID will make you take action at some point. In my case I was in denial and buried any thoughts of being TS from an earlier bout of untreated GID. Before I came to to this section I went through all the appropriate SOC to confirm mine and others suspicions that I may be TS. The GID I was experiencing was so intense I needed intervention.

Being TS is a constant and it's for life unless you fully transition. Sometimes the TS label will stick with you for life even postop. The ultimate goal is to live life as a woman you were meant to be. I don't see any glamor in being TS and woudn't wish it on anybody. The TS women in here are at various stages and ages, some go on to full transition while others get stalled because of health, money, age, or family issues.

I can understand a casual outside observer not understanding it (being TS) because it is complex and difficult to grasp. The TS women do stick together though because they are living it. When misinformed people make statements like "you need to stop it and think of your wife" or "you'll never be a woman" it will get TS women up in arms and rightly so because the comments are misguided and uninformed and sometimes hateful.

That being said sometimes I see others in the MTF section that I know will end up here eventually. Best of luck!:)

[Babeba]

That's the reason why the OP of the thread you alluded to specified that she only wanted responses from people who are actively transitioning. I too will, in the future, specify that any thread I post will be for TS only. This is often done in the loved ones section as well for GGs again to keep the thread relevant and not let a few bad apples spoil it.

You are welcome to post here. There are a lot of TSes who are in your same situation, I know I was for several years until I just couldn't take it anymore. I loved my wife too but we were killing each other and setting a bad example for our children, I did the right thing for our family and left, we get along so much better now. But that's just me.


I'd like to point out that the threads in the Loved Ones section for GGs only are not that common. There is the 'ask a GG' thread, where posters who are not GGs ask for their point of view. If we need to talk to each other, there is FAB. Generally, I assume that if a MRF TS member posts in this open forum (unless specified) that she is looking for everyone to be involved. It does seem a little odd for a TS member to post in here asking for only Specific other TS people to answer, as there is also the Safe Haven to post in. Melissa (BadTranny) posted one recently that I liked though, because it let me (and everyone) see a clear snapshot of opinion on an issue by people whose personal situations were the closest to that situation. It's not about apples, good or bad; it's about the intent of the thread.

Heck, I've started threads in here when I have had questions about transsexualityas well, and I think that's appropriate. I think, OP, that the person who needs to welcome yourself here is... Yourself. I know the 'clutter' comment you were hurt by, and I don't think it was meant to hurt anyone or apply to other threads in this section of the forum. The whole point of this entire forum is to try to give EVERYONE in the "T" umbrella a place to have a bit of support. Since everyone is unique, sometimes you have to search a little for yourself, but trust me it's there somewhere!

[Badtranny]

When I try unless i am forced to 'out' myself by showing ID or by people i have known for a long time I am taken as female about 95% of the time.
In many threads in this forum I see the attitude that if you don't transition you don't count, no matter what else you have been through. Tonight i decided to post after being really upset by references to threads being cluttered up by non-transitioners

oooooooh Sometimes I wonder if posts are referring to me but now I KNOW this one is. ;-)

Let me clear something up for you Jackie. There are many people on this forum who identify as TS but are not transitioning for one reason or another. It's none of my business why and for the most part I'm not interested in making a judgement, even though I may not understand it. What you should understand before you get upset is that there is a clear distinction between people that are actually transitioning and people that are not. Nobody believes that one is better than the other, that's just silliness, but there are girls like Lori who I think are wonderful but she is not transitioning (yet?) and there are girls like April who is a pre-op transitioner like me and even though I adore them both there are things I would ask April before I would ask Lori because April is going through the exact same life changes that I am. She has changed her name, she is dating a man, she has had FFS, etc etc.

I know what it's like to be in the stage before transition, I know what it's like to be sir'd and ma'amed on the same day, I know what it's like to "out" yourself with your ID, basically I've already lived through YOUR TG experience. There is a lot I can tell you about what to expect from HRT, or FFS, or breast augmentation, or a name change, or going full-time at work, or any of the major and not so major changes that happen during transition. My advice on those things may be helpful or not but NONE of it would be speculation. I am involved from toes to nose in a transition to the other gender. I have learned stuff. On the other hand, your experience while potentially very valuable to the girls coming up behind you, is not worth much to me. Why would I ask your opinion on a boob job? Why would I ask your opinion on dating men? Why would I ask your opinion on how you deal with your penis in women's spaces? I am a legal woman, you are not.

You are not any less valuable a contributor to this forum than I am. I'm just another mouthy broad in a forum that is bursting at the seams with them but we are simply in different places on our journey. The Postie chicks certainly don't ask me anything about dilating, or hygiene or any of the gazillion things that THEY deal with. They're not better than me, but the ARE post-op and they've been where I am, but I haven't been where they are (yet?).

My "clutter" comment wasn't meant to be taken personally by anyone. I was asking a very specific question and only a specific group of girls (pre-op legal females) were qualified to answer.

Feel better now?

[Nicole Erin]

oooooooh Sometimes I wonder if posts are referring to me but now I KNOW this one is. ;-)

BadTranny ALWAYS thinks it's all about her :D It could be a thread about a Foghat reunion and BadTranny be like, "they are talking about me again"

Now about feeling welcome -
There are basically only a couple things one can do to really wear out their welcome -

1) going around bashing CD/TS. I have seen over and over members banned for telling us we are not "real" or how we are "just men" etc...

2) Pissing in the moderators' cheerios. BIG no-no. Oh my gyod,

But yeah this is not a TS or CD forum, it is a Gender-variant forum.

[Badtranny]

BadTranny ALWAYS thinks it's all about her :D It could be a thread about a Foghat reunion and BadTranny be like, "they are talking about me again"

L
O
L

Girl I laughed so loud it woke my dog up. That was funny as hell.

...but HEY screw you! ;-)

[Thera Home]

Do not make the body the measurement of your transsexuality using the word transsexuality as a measurement of being female brained in that your brain has the sexually dimorphic characteristics of the female brain.

The body follows the brain, the brain does not follow the body. Each influences the other but the brain decides the initial and continuous rythmn.


Kelly....I luv ya but I have no idea what youre saying:heehee:. My one brain cell is spinning like a top....................again:D


I am not looking for hate, to anger anyone, to cause a fight, I just want to know if I should keep coming to this section of the forums, or if I am just going to be frustrated and saddened.

Don't worry Jackie. Just post what you feel and nevermind the ding dongs like me.:heehee:



I'd like to point out that the threads in the Loved Ones section for GGs only are not that common. There is the 'ask a GG' thread, where posters who are not GGs ask for their point of view. If we need to talk to each other, there is FAB. Generally, I assume that if a MRF TS member posts in this open forum (unless specified) that she is looking for everyone to be involved. It does seem a little odd for a TS member to post in here asking for only Specific other TS people to answer, as there is also the Safe Haven to post in. Melissa (BadTranny) posted one recently that I liked though, because it let me (and everyone) see a clear snapshot of opinion on an issue by people whose personal situations were the closest to that situation. It's not about apples, good or bad; it's about the intent of the thread.


Super Babeba to the rescue.............yeah:)

Hi Everybody
I just want to tell you all that I like you even if youre not perfect like me:D
(just kidding,don't get your pretty feathers all ruffled now:heehee:)

Thera

[JackieInPA]

Thanks for the responses I really appreciate them!!!

[Babeba]

BadTranny ALWAYS thinks it's all about her :D It could be a thread about a Foghat reunion and BadTranny be like, "they are talking about me again"

Now about feeling welcome -
There are basically only a couple things one can do to really wear out their welcome -

1) going around bashing CD/TS. I have seen over and over members banned for telling us we are not "real" or how we are "just men" etc...

2) Pissing in the moderators' super awesome homemade granola. BIG no-no. Oh my gyod,

But yeah this is not a TS or CD forum, it is a Gender-variant forum.

I fixed that for you. :D

[Thera Home]

L
O
L

Girl I laughed so loud it woke my dog up. That was funny as hell.

...but HEY screw you! ;-)

meannie..............................:heehee:

Thera

[Barbara Ella]

As to the forum, and the interpretation of its content as being slanted negatively, i really don't see that. But, I tend not to listen to negative nabobs, and just let everyone have their opinions. However, it is just human nature to give more emphasis to negativity that impacts them personally, but positive things are just merely accepted and integrated, and forgotten. Do not take negative expressions personally, they are one person's view, and no more relevant than another when dealing with opinion, and the negatives are merely opinions, not facts. It is not written anywhere that certain actions give someone prominence ahead of another.

Please take your time, and give the wonderful girls who have expressed their support to grab and hug you. You are welcome here, please do not stay away. Your opinions are needed.

Barbara