Odd perspective

[Lorileah]

So often the stories we hear here are very similar. The age of first wearing something. The feelings inside. The quandary of opening up to a spouse.

I had a thought the other day, I can see the change in me when I dress. Others have mentioned it also and I am sure I have said how when I am "Lori" things are different around me. I have more confidence as Lori, I am a nicer (less sarcastic...trust me. If you think I am sarcastic here you should see me in daily life). I am less confident and I tend to not be gregarious as a male.

Some will say that is how men are, but I had an epiphany (ok it was a thought) that I changed to the personality I am as a male about puberty. As a teen, I was an outcast especially when it came to the women I liked. I was shot down more than the Lafayette Aerodrille by the Red Baron. I became more introverted even to the point of avoiding any possible intimacy with women, afraid of being hurt.

However, as Lori, I am attractive, enough so that people want to be around me. So, I am not afraid to meet and get to know people.

So the question is, how many think that our social life when we were growing up has helped us become who we are now? Maybe rephrasing that. If I were a popular athlete in school who had their choice of girls, would I now have less a proclivity to be feminine. Yes I know we were born this way, but if you had the "privileged life" do you think it would be less likely you would dress part time now?

The reason I really ask is now that I do have more confidence socially, it seems that even as a guy I get more attention.

(This isn't directed at the TS's, this is for the people who dress in private on occasion)

[heatherdress]

Lorileah - Very good perspective and thoughts but I do not think my popularity in high school and college relates to my subsequent crossdressing. I would strongly agree, however, that our social life growing up helps us develop into who we become.

[kimdl93]

Interesting question. There's an implication that had we just been a bit more extroverted or successful with girls in high school, maybe we wouldn't be substituting ourselves for the post adolescent companionship we never had. Well, maybe. But I suspect the reason some of us were less confident with girls as we entered puberty may have been the same reason we are who we are today.

Perhaps the reason some of us are more confident and comfortable in our own skins is that we have come to accept ourselves as we are as transgendered.

PS. I still can't muster the nerve to sing in public...not even happy birthday. Sick huh?

[suchacutie]

Much of my social life was formed by my family circumstance, but when I had time to have a separate social life, I feel that it was the other way around: my social life was formed out of the confusion that was present in the male personality I had. I hung out with the girls, generally, and had little interest in the "macho" guy stuff that defined so many of the males in my sphere. It's easier to understand in the hindsight of learning about Tina, but at the time it was a bit confusing!

[Julie Gaum]

Mine was a mixed bag> In high school I often dated but never went too far petting-wise because I was probably wearing my mother's lingerie which I allude to as my "iron maiden". In the military I once picked up a girl while rained out of our home air base and staying over in Memphis --- she was having her period so, though we checked into a motel, nothing happened. At college after I had my own apartment to store my own femme clothing I lost my virginity to a 40-year-old widow and so I discovered sex that led me to a younger girl for my pleasure. Looking back I'm sure that my leaning to CD only delayed my sexual growing up and created an intervert until I got into the work force where I had to shed my shell. And that's my story.
Julie

[AllyCDTV]

Lorileah, I don't think that is a very odd perspective at all. The thought occurred to me just a few days ago, that maybe I am dressing up to be the girl I could never get when I was in high school.

[Angela Campbell]

Not for me. I think it is because I was like I was that I was a bit of a loner then and now. I did have some success with the girls, but I was shunned by the boys. I was never big enough, tough enough, strong enough, or aggressive enough for the others growing up in the small southern town. I think I always had a girlfriend because I had something in common with them. I could talk to them, enjoyed many things they did, and wasn't aggressively trying to get in their pants all the time. I wasn't crude and rude.

So I think the experiences in my teen years and childhood came about because of what I was and did not shape who I am now so much. I wasn't the popular athelete in school because of who I am.

[Lady Catherine]

I played all three major sports and was in a band. I was also pretty promiscuous in high school. Hung out with the guys. Had a great life in high school. Yet here I am.

[KellyJameson]

Maybe there is only one sex and that is female and everyone naturally falls somewhere on the female spectrum but unnaturally pretends otherwise to "get what they think they need" so when you stop pretending and find your natural equilibrium you are happier because you have now accepted yourself for who you really are.

When you accept yourself you lose the fear of not being accepted by others so become more relaxed and real.

[lingerieLiz]

Totaly unrelated. We are all from diverse backgrounds. It would be nice if we could pinpoint the cause. Until we then we can only guess.

[docrobbysherry]

Not sure, Lori. But, this part of your theory be relevent?

Since I dated/married attractive women all my life, I insist on Sherry looking young and pretty? Food for MY thots!

[Beverley Sims]

I gained more social skills as a girl when I was 20 than any other time in my life.
As a man I am able to improve them and be more confident, but as a woman I can be very outgoing and hold the floor.
Why, because everybody usually knows I am a man and want to interact with me and find out what makes me tick.
The secret, keep yourself interesting by not talking about yourself.
The others will ask if they are interested.

[ClosetED]

This is a topic I joined to explore. I have been online since the days of ARPANET and have read many postings and IRC chats. From my subset of CDers known, I don't see any who consider THEMSELVES to be handsome. As Christian Grey in Fifty Shades of Grey, you may be handsome, rich, but if you own self-esteem is lacking, you don't see it that way and look to something else to improve your self-esteem. He turned to B&D and we turned to CDing. As males, we are forced by cultural norms to present a certain way and our true selves are more complete than that. In order to either free ourselves from the stress of burdens placed on men or to express the feminine aspects normally associated with women (that actually make us the better partners like sensitivity, caring, nurturing, outgoing, stylish), we enclose ourselves in feminine items to let those aspects show. As part of that, we see ourselves as "prettier" or "sexier" in some way (but that does not mean that others would agree but that does not matter). We do it to make ourselves happier without hurting anyone else; if society would just let us do this without feeling guilty about going outside their norms. Yet we are the better people. As more caring men, we likely help others more often. We notice the new dress or hairstyle. We don't mind coming along shopping. We help with cleaning around the house.

So I think many of us have self-esteem issues early on and combined with being nicer people, led us to this. The GGs who do support us seem to have realized this. I would love to hear others thoughts on this. I await with flame retardant suit on! (with a form fitting body and high heels boots to go with it!)

[Gillian Gigs]

Quote; I am a nicer (less sarcastic...trust me. If you think I am sarcastic here you should see me in daily life). I am less confident and I tend to not be gregarious as a male.
That about sums me up, Mr. Sarcasm, with a dose of social difficulties on the side. Someone once said, "we spend the first 20 years of our lives to become adults, and the rest of our lives overcoming our childhoods". There will never be one key to open the door of "why", but a labyrinth of doors and hallways that lead to the end result of CD’ing. I have often wondered about the teen years of my life and how it played into who I am today. As a child, I was strongly discouraged from playing with the girls next door by my Dad. This is a story within itself. Over the years, I saw myself as being more of a loner than anything else. As everyone needs social contact, I had no choice but to relate with other boys. If they played sports, then I played sports also. I was good enough to play organized team sports, not because I wanted to, but because I wanted the interaction with people. Funny, I wanted to be with people, but deep down I was different, and that is what probably lead to my being a loner. I remember the boys making fun of me because I didn't read GI Joe, Batman, or Superman comics like they did, but read Archie, so I had to read the comics they did, or fall out of favor. Maybe the loner part came from being the youngest by 8 plus years and parents who were never home. The treasures that I found at home, with no one to stop me from trying them on, was a big part of my teen years.
Quote; As Christian Grey in Fifty Shades of Grey, you may be handsome, rich, but if your own self-esteem is lacking, you don't see it that way and look to something else to improve your self-esteem. He turned to B&D and we turned to CD’ing.
I think that there is a strong degree of truth to this. But what caused the lack of self-esteem? Could the very habit of dressing, which is not socially acceptable within the group we were raised within lead to this very thing? Whatever the case lacking in self-esteem is a big factor in a teen’s life. I remember once being rather drunk with two of my best friends, and saying that I liked soft satin and the feel of it. I heard more than enough to know that I would never say that again. So what else was never said for fear of ridicule?
Quote; In order to either free ourselves from the stress of burdens placed on men or to express the feminine aspects normally associated with women (that actually make us the better partners like sensitivity, caring, nurturing, outgoing, stylish), we enclose ourselves in feminine items to let those aspects show. As part of that, we see ourselves as "prettier" or "sexier" in some way (but that does not mean that others would agree but that does not matter).
Well lingerie definitely gives me that “sexy” feeling, and yes I like to feel “pretty” also. Is this a result of identifying with the clothes, or a feminine side? There is a comment made by Billy Crystal in the movie “City Slickers”, about wouldn’t it be nice to do it like when they were kids, and yell, “do over”. Until we can get a “do over”, we can only wonder if it would have been different if only.........

[Sarah Doepner]

I have to admit my self esteem, both prior to and after puberty was very low. I couldn't find the courage to date and saw women as something very special and off limits to the likes of me. Once I was out of the crucible of high school and had a couple of years of college under my belt, I began to improve my social skills and thought more highly of myself. I was attracted to feminine things when I was very young, around that low self-esteem time and through college. It did seem to be something that I could retreat to for a little comfort when Mom or girl friends or eventually my wife were unavailable. Now it's just part of me. Unlike Lori I don't think I'm any more outgoing en femme than I am any other time, in fact, it's probably the opposite. I'm comfortable en femme, but not nearly as outgoing as when I'm just being Sarah's evil twin brother.

[ClosetED]

I think the feminine side is always there. The clothes help to bring it forward. If you daydream or read stories about CDing, and imagine yourself in the clothes, do you then feel pretty or feminine in your mind? Then it is not the physical clothes, but the state of mind they release. Clothes just make it more real and allow yourself and others to experience the real you. IMHO.

[KellyJameson]

The self esteem is stolen from men who do not conform to the social construct of what it is to be a man.

To be a man is the projection of physical power whether by muscle or gun.

Practically every CD'er on this forum labels themselves an introvert but maybe being an introvert is nothing more than the rejection of inhuman behavior labelled as extroversion.

The anger and sarcasm becomes the armor to protect what is left of your humanity which is the rejection of violence.

Think of why some people are pacifists not from the fear of saving themselves but from the revulsion of harming others but pacifists are always labelled as cowards so you become trapped between avoiding the label of coward and not wanting to lose yourself which is your humanity.

It becomes a trap between two aspects of self esteem the one you protect that is innate and the one society defines for you that is only given to you if you play by the rules.

Warfare comes out of nature but we are more than war making animals and being human is striving to transcend natures limitations but men are shaped into weapons because we are born into a system that makes war so values the projection of physical violence that in turn destroys the humanity of men.

ClosetEd sees this truth.

There is the social creation of masculinity that violates the males humanity because one destroys and the other protects so you live in a contradiction that cannot be resolved unless you reject one or the other.

CDing saves what is left of your humanity and goes far beyond femininity and is a form of absolution

[sandra-leigh]

The thought occurred to me just a few days ago, that maybe I am dressing up to be the girl I could never get when I was in high school.

I was a late bloomer. I didn't even want to date when I was in high school. I knew I was too young, too ... unformed? And looking around, I thought that nearly all the women were as well. It looked to me as if too many people were getting bogged down in relationships they weren't ready to handle. One thing at a time, and that one thing was concentrating on my schoolwork.

Mind you, I am still a bit disappointed that none of the women in my high school classes had any interest in me even as friends (I got confirmation of that 30 years later!) It's not nice to not even have been considered to be a metaphorical bench-warmer, let alone not on the metaphorical playing field. About the best that can be said was that I was not a total non-entity: people do remember me -- as the kid who innocently embarrassed the teachers by correcting them.


Practically every CD'er on this forum labels themselves an introvert but maybe being an introvert is nothing more than the rejection of inhuman behavior labelled as extroversion.

Some here (not me) do identify themselves as extroverts, and even as fairly popular; some have said they are quite popular with the guys (which can make it more difficult to dress outside the home.)

There is a relatively well understood definition of introvert vs extrovert that is not based upon philosophy or rejection of behavior. An extrovert is said to be someone who "recharges" by being in the company of other people, whereas an introvert is said to be someone who "recharges" through near solitude (and often through fairly quiet activities.)

Socializing is something I have to save up my energy for. To get my energy back, give me a couch and a book, or a lazy cuddle with my wife.

[ClosetED]

I am not sure if we are dressing to try to look like a girl we admired early in life, but to be as admired as that girl. The girl was likely happy, smiling, made friends easily, reasonably good looking and that situation is what we may be trying to achieve rather than the particular person. I am in introvert and also love a good book (but I love to read in the warm sunshine) or a cuddle with the wife.

[lynnmcarthur]

I was very close with a sorts of girls in high school, mostly out of my fascination with all things feminine. Being close made more on the inside about the things that are challenges for girls growing up. But I was also and all state athlete and captain of the team. I hung out with my team and, at the time, hoped when I had a sex life that this dressing thing would go away. Now I can remember that my fem questions came early and had little to do with sex.

[Kelly Smith]

That doesn't sound like my situation at all. I came to this late as a result of extreme sexual frustration caused by a medication induced satyriasis. The exact psychological dynamics don't concern us here but they had nothing to do with my self confidence as an adolescent.

[JenniferR771]

I am also a bit introverted, shy and a loner at times. Non-athletic. Small and skinny. Maybe my secret cd habit made it worse--not sure.
However, last year at the Dunes crossdresser weekend, I was amazed a somewhat embarrassed when I noticed people looking at me as I walked past. There were crossdressers, real women, and gay men all taking a good look. Thin is an advantage when you are wearing a really pretty dress and long sexy hair.

[ClosetED]

JenniferR,
And didn't that situation make you feel wonderfully happy afterward? That is what we strive for - to be looked at and admired for the person we are, however we choose to present it.

[Leslie Langford]

I can relate to a lot of what you are saying, Lorileah.

In high school, I was always the studious, nerdy type, and had some self-image issues as I tended to be on the chubby side (unlike today, when practically all kids are overweight, so that would be a non-issue nowadays). I was never athletic, and instead was the type of guy who preferred to join the chess club as opposed to playing football or basketball. My parents also encouraged me to sign up for the Air Cadets to "man up", but I hated every moment of it because we spent more time marching and doing drills instead of learning about airplanes and flying.

Not being a jock, my appeal was limited to fellow "nerdettes", as the cute girls all gravitated towards the jocks and the "bad boys", and treated me more like a brother rather than potential boyfriend material. And I was always the one they went to for a shoulder to cry on and to complain how badly their biker boyfriends were treating them. Hello? Which part don't you get? Maybe you should consider...me?

It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that one of the appeals of crossdressing in my earlier years was to create an "imaginary girlfriend" in my own image. And as a male, I was always on the introverted, shy side with girls and women, whereas "Leslie" loves being out and about and interacting confidently with GG's in all kinds of settings. As "Leslie", I've developed what I consider to be an elegant and sophisticated way of dressing "en femme", and I must be doing something right as I often get compliments on my outfits from GG's when out in public.

But I would be a liar if I didn't admit that there is also an element of "payback" present in the degree to which I enjoy this level of female attention now, as opposed to the lack of it when I most craved it in my younger days.

And unkind as it may sound, I also get a degree of satisfaction in seeing how those same women who were once drop-dead gorgeous and wouldn't give me the time of day back then have let themselves go, and are now the ones who envy "Leslie" and comment on how good "she" looks. They're the ones with the cellulite, "bat-wings", droopy breasts, and bunions on their feet which now relegate them to "old lady shoes" or sneakers, whereas my current figure is more "girly" than most of theirs are now (I still have a waist ;)), and I can rock my stilettos with the best of the younger crowd.

[Jenny Doolittle]

This is a topic I joined to explore. I have been online since the days of ARPANET and have read many postings and IRC chats. From my subset of CDers known, I don't see any who consider THEMSELVES to be handsome. As Christian Grey in Fifty Shades of Grey, you may be handsome, rich, but if you own self-esteem is lacking, you don't see it that way and look to something else to improve your self-esteem. He turned to B&D and we turned to CDing. As males, we are forced by cultural norms to present a certain way and our true selves are more complete than that. In order to either free ourselves from the stress of burdens placed on men or to express the feminine aspects normally associated with women (that actually make us the better partners like sensitivity, caring, nurturing, outgoing, stylish), we enclose ourselves in feminine items to let those aspects show. As part of that, we see ourselves as "prettier" or "sexier" in some way (but that does not mean that others would agree but that does not matter). We do it to make ourselves happier without hurting anyone else; if society would just let us do this without feeling guilty about going outside their norms. Yet we are the better people. As more caring men, we likely help others more often. We notice the new dress or hairstyle. We don't mind coming along shopping. We help with cleaning around the house.

So I think many of us have self-esteem issues early on and combined with being nicer people, led us to this. The GGs who do support us seem to have realized this. I would love to hear others thoughts on this. I await with flame retardant suit on! (with a form fitting body and high heels boots to go with it!)

Now that was a very intellectual statement that I can agree with totally. I find all of your points very valid and can relate to all issues as I look back into my past history.

[kendra_gurl]

The reason I really ask is now that I do have more confidence socially, it seems that even as a guy I get more attention.



Lorileah I think the "more confidence socially" is the key here. You did not all of a sudden gain that confidence when you started to crossdress. You had the same fears as all of us did and some still do about being seen by others. You took tiny steps although to you they were giant ones to test the way people would react to your feminine presentation. That over time lead to you gaining not only the confidence but also the social skills you were lacking at an earlier age.

I have always been decsribed by others as a nice guy but hard to get to know simply because I don't care much for socializing with others. That idol chit chat about what do you do for a living and how many kids do you have has never been of much interest to me. I have very few "freinds" but the ones I do have are true real friends whom I know will be there for me anytime for any reason no questions asked.

I have been out in public over 200 times and seldom have any real interactions with others but then I don't frequent clubs or purely social events where that sort of interactions would be normal or expected. I may need to make that one of my next goals because becomming more social with others while presenting as Kendra I'm sure would help with feeling accepted as we all seem to need.

You are a very lucky person to be able to freely experience life in whichever way you present yourself to others

[Cassandra Lynn]

Nice post Lorileah, thought provoking isn't it?

Being able to look at it from here and going thru all those things i've had to go thru, i see alot of truth in it.
Being gender confused early on, not being popular with the girls, spending way too much time in my own head, minimal self esteem........ there are many aspects that touch on the escapist theory.
I'm not suggesting that this is what you were saying, but this is where my head went.

But i don't think that is quite right tho either, i mean it does sound right to some extent, but i also just think it is that i'm a tweener...a dually.