Sexuality

[Kelli<3]

I started to reply to the straight CD vs gay CD thread but I have more on my mind then the scope of that thread.

A little background: I am married CD with two small children. I love my wife and I am very attracted to her. Just this year I began to come to terms with my CDing and gender identity issues. I came out to my wife about all of this and she has been very supportive. I have always told myself I am straight and tried my best to deny that I was a CD or had any gender identity issues. Well I am at the very least a CD and I have always felt to some degree that I should have been born female.

I have been openly discussing all if this with my wife lately and one topic of discussion was my sexuality. The gay vs straight CD thread as well as past similar threads got me thinking. After reading the responses I feel like I am in the minority and don't fit in with most people here. I feel I am definitely not straight, I guess I'm bi or bicurious, however you want to classify me. I love women and I'm very much in love with and attracted to my wife but I am attracted to men as well, although my standards seem to be pretty high.

My attraction to men is primarily sexual and centers around me as a woman. However I don't think this magically goes away and I turn straight when I'm not dressed. I'm one and the same person whether I'm dressed as a man or woman, I just feel that part of me is female. I have had fantasies about men for awhile now, mostly with me dressed, and some are pretty intense. I don't plan on acting on these fantasies since I am married and love my wife and would never to anything to risk my relationship with her or my family.

This is tough for me to deal with and I kind of feel alone in this forum. Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

[Tiffany Grace]

Thank you Kelli for your honesty and candor. I don't think you are messed up at all for describing who you truly are.

Hugs
Tiffany

[Jana]

You have the guts to admit you are bisexual (or bicurious) and that's good for you. Whether you decide to act on it is your choice, but at least you have a clear picture where you stand within the spectrum. Knowledge is power, and also liberating.

[suzy1]

You are not messed up at all. You are just you.
If pressed I would have to say that if you have a fantasy about being with a man then you are a bit bisexual.
Or maybe when you fantasise about being with a man you are concentrating on the feelings that a women would have when having sex with a man which is not necessarily anything to do with being bisexual. In other words you are being turned on by the feeling of the woman in the sex act.

The subject of sex is not simple, it’s very complicated and there are countless variations within the human experience.

Yes, someone like me is 100% heterosexual and if you are 100% heterosexual then you know it, you really do!

But why think you are messed up? There are lots of men just like you. You’re just another variation in this complex subject that is sexuality.

Accept who you are and move on. [And have fun and enjoy who you are while you’re at it]:)

[Leann68]

I think you are as normal as most of us, we all have our own thoughts about life, and where we fall in the spectrum of sexually. I too am a married CD who very much loves my wife, I have always considered myself to be straight.
That being said however I do think about what it would be like to be with another CD male.

[Diversity]

Hi Kellie,
You are not messed up at all and I think it's great that you are so honest with yourself and have the courage to share your feelings with this forum. It also says just how great this forum and it's members are. I believe that you are fantasizing about being with a man during love making because you are trying to envision and feel what it would be like to be a female making love to a man. This is something that I am sure many of us have done from time to time. I myself will admit that I have wondered what it would be like also especially when I am dressed 'en femme'. Still, however, I am a 100% straight heterosexual and would not act upon this curiosity. To me there is nothing wrong with fantasizing about any sexual diversity among two consenting adults. Having said that, there is actually nothing wrong with anything two consenting adults do as long as it does not harm either party and anyone else. Enjoy being 'you' and learning about 'you'. This is a good thing. It's a spiritual thing. It's a healthy thing in my view. We are all on a journey in life. Have fun!
Best wishes,
Di

[JennyLynn]

You are fine. I told my wife that a cute customer of mine, a guy, offered to well...do something for me...if you get my drift. She actually said she found it"strangely exciting". I let it happen once and even though we talked about the experience which was intense, he ended up being a jerk afterall, so I distanced myself from him. There's nothing wrong with being attracted to other men, but for me, I would prefer the girl side of a cd.

[Marleena]

Kelli I hate this saying but here goes... "don't worry be happy"! There are plenty of CDers that feel just like you do. For some it's just fantasy for others it becomes reality.

I'm sure there are many CD admirers on this board in hiding too that claim to be straight.

[suchacutie]

Kelli...welcome to normal! The real strength of this forum is that we have people who are strong enough (like you) to talk about the details that show us the full spectrum of transgendered possibilities. It seems to me that the majority of the folks on this forum fall somewhere closer to your feelings about sexuality than my unidirectional feelings. But I think the most important point is that we are a group who appreciate the differences among us and learn from them. I know I've learned a lot on this forum!!!

Be happy!

[Kate Simmons]

These feelings can tend to be like a second nose that we can't really ignore. The feelings need to be addressed and accepted, then at least we can manage them to the point where we control them and not vice versa.:)

[ChaCha]

Kelli, you are not alone. I feel a lot like you. Thanks for sharing.

[Kati F]

Well Kelli, there are at least two of us here.. (and probably many more)!!! I could have written your post. I'm a bit older that you but I'm married to a great woman have two adult children and love them all to the ends of the earth but...

This whole CD/gender/sexually thing is tough to wrap your head around sometimes... it's really way, way complicated. I don't think cross dressers are any different that the rest of society, some are straight, some are gay and others are bi. You're not 'messed up' at all, you just the way nature made you, just like the rest of us.

You are not 'messed up' at all.

[shellie marie]

well kelli I think you have found that you are not alone here with your feelings there are alot of us that feel the same way you do, being married also you learn to control those feelings always think of your wife before you act.talking openly with your wife will help you both
you are not alone or wierd
Shellie

[Jenniferathome]

So you are bi, so what? Can be bi and not act on that. If marriage is valuable to you, and you clearly indicate it is, then you have no worries.

[docrobbysherry]

Interesting post, Kelli. I think it's all a matter of numbers? I've consistently read threads/posts saying that about 6% of the general population is gay. And, that a similar percentage applies to CDs.

But, what about bi's? Are they included in the 6%? Maybe they should be in another, separate, category?

[ReineD]

I don't think you're messed up. There have been lots of threads about this and many CDers feel the same way you do, as did my own SO. He was, however, single for some years in between his ex and me, and so he did have the freedom to test the waters with men. She discovered that the reality of being two male bodied individuals in bed turned her off big time. She is an independent, open-minded and experimental type of person (as am I), and she has no agenda, no predetermined idea that it is somehow "wrong" to be gay or bi.

I think the determination of whether someone is bi-curious (potentially bi), depends on whether they feel an attraction no matter how they're dressed vs. feeling an attraction ONLY when they're dressed, since their curiosity is not predicated upon anything within themselves that fluctuates. In other words, they are bi-curious if they are attracted to a member of the same sex no matter who they feel they are internally and so the attraction is "other-focused" and not "self-focused".

The difficulty with determining whether a CD is in fact attracted to men is complicated by determining which is greater, an unchanging attraction to a man (which would be there no matter how someone dresses), or an attraction to the self as a woman while using the mental image of a man as a prop because it makes the fantasy more real. If the attraction turns out to only be there when dressed and it does shatter under real-life circumstances, then I propose the attraction is rather to the self as a woman, which is not the same as being bi.

Someone else mentioned an attraction to CD males specifically. If this attraction is there independent of whether the person who feels it is dressed or not, then I'd say that this person is indeed bi-curious.

At any rate, no one is messed up. It is what it is and it's OK, unless the attraction to the self as a woman has a negative impact on a sexual relationship with a SO, if there is a SO.

[Amy Fakley]

... Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

you are not alone, not by a long shot. There's a quote from an old thread that went something like this "you're wearing a dress, wig and heels dude. you might not be gay, but ya damn sure ain't straight", LOL.

I sometimes wonder if the reason that the "zomg am I teh gay?!!" threads evoke such a powerful and immediate response is perhaps a bit of defensiveness/denial. I'd honestly be surprised if most of us haven't at least fantasized about ourselves as women with a man. I'm married, and straight too (though I'll admit to some adolescent experimentation like 25 years ago -- it just wasn't for me), but ... I guess my point is ... why worry about it?

It's not like you're contemplating heading out to a bar, pickin' up dudes, divorcing your wife, turning your whole life upside down etc.
Sounds to me like you're attracted to the idea of yourself as a woman with a man which is by no means uncommon 'round these parts (even if there are a few who will loudly deny it, LOL).

[Badtranny]

you are not alone, not by a long shot. There's a quote from an old thread that went something like this "you're wearing a dress, wig and heels dude. you might not be gay, but ya damn sure ain't straight", LOL..

That quote looks familiar. ;-)

[lingerieLiz]

I think we and for that matter all people are curious about sexual feeling. What I found was that while I liked platonic friendships where I could play the role of a girl/woman with a guy I wasn't sexualy interested. Loved going out, but never to bed.

[flatlander_48]

This is tough for me to deal with and I kind of feel alone in this forum. Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

No, you are not alone and you are not messed up. Confused a bit, perhaps, but I think that is sort of a natural state as we evolve. The reality is that where ever we are on the continuum from the cradle to the grave is that we have never been here before. It's all new, every moment. The trick is to keep remembering that we are adaptable creatures and if we get stuck, it is possible to get unstuck. Whether we like it or not, we are continually changing. How we think of ourselves today may not be what we think tomorrow. There is no right or wrong regardless of what people might try to tell you. Things have to make sense to you and that's all that matters.

Until I found my way here, I did think that most crossdressers were gay or bi. Perhaps this was due to looking at the world through the eyes of a bisexual person; I don't know. Anyway, realizing that the largest group of crossdressers is straight was a revelation. However, it makes sense to me to support them in the hope that they will support me. Bisexuals have an interesting perspective, I think. Because we are often simultaneously in both the gay and straight worlds, we are forced to understand both. Maybe we will see this more as a blessing rather than a curse as we come to accept ourselves.

However one believes that we were created, we have been given the power of rational thought and the power of faith. We can use these to understand our situation and hopefully move forward. So no, you are not alone. There are many of us scattered along the same path and we're just trying to reconcile who we are with who we need to be. Easier said than done, I know, but we'll get there. That's where the faith comes in...

[kimdl93]

I suspect that most of the people who say I fantasize about men, Sexually, but only when I'm dressed are engaging in just that...a fanciful idea that being with men is part of being female. Honestly, I don't think a genuine attraction to males nor a solely sexual fantasy attraction can be dependent on how you're dressed.

[sandra-leigh]

I am theoretically bi. Theoretically in that I think that some of the acts are potentially of interest to me, but I am only very rarely attracted to actual men. (I can only remember two, total, in my lifetime, who interested me for more than 2 minutes, and those were more or less 30 years ago; not a thing happened with respect to those two.)

I no longer remember how long it has been since being "straight" was important to me; on the other hand, the alternatives are very low priority for me. Sort of like me saying that, "Okay, I admit the possibility that there might be a Brussels' Sprout that I might enjoy, but it does seem rather implausible I would ever find one."

[Michaela51]

You are not alone, Kelli. I too am married, bisexual, and feel sexually female when with a man. We are complex creatures, not messed up. Celebrate the mystery.

[paulaprimo]

twenty years ago, when i was your age i had the exact same feelings. being married at the time i did not act on my feelings and remained faithful to my wife.
we divorced a few years ago, for other reasons, which gave me the perfect opportunity to explore my bi-side. i too, am the same person no matter how i am dressed, but one thing is for certain that i am bi and now only wished i acted on that earlier in life.

[GinaD]

Kelli, you are not alone by any means. It is great that you recognize that you can't cross the line with a man while married. Just a bad idea. I shared many of the same bisexual desires as you when I was married, but didn't engage them during my marriage either. I had sexual experiences with a man before I was married, and have re-visited the experience since I was divorced. I can only enjoy the experience with a man while in my "Gina" persona, but I still prefer women over men.
I might recommend enjoying the other side of the coin with some of the various toys that are available to see if the experience is at all pleasurable to you.

[Shari]

Kelli, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were describing me.
No, you're far from being alone.

[becky77]

Having read through previous threads on subjects like this I would say its pretty common for us, possibly fairly popular for non-CD guys, though they would never talk about something like that, where as we are more sharing in our feelings and explore what makes us tick.
I share this 'fantasy' though I now realise it is more the strong female desires that kick in when dressed rather than being bi. I talked to someone once who also felt this way and tried the fantasy out, it was a disaster and he deeply regrets it. I would say only explore this side of your sexuality if your feelings are consistent when in girl mode or guy mode.

[Beverley Sims]

I am straight as the next man, I think.
I usually address the reply like this as I dont squirm if being kissed by a man.
I do not feel sexually attracted to them and I love my wife dearly.
I am not turned off men and if they know what I am and we will flirt together and have fun with the joke.
That is as far as it goes. I would not say you are weird or that much different because of your curiosity.
The only restraint is the fact that you are married and have mixed feelings.
If I was single and did not have ties I would be a lot more liberal, as I was when I was twenty.
There were a couple of boys that had the hots for Beverley as they knew no better.
I did not shatter the illusion then either. :)

[Angela Campbell]

For me it is different. I will not try to say I am straight. I am attracted to the female form. Whether it be a GG, a *******, or maybe even a good looking crossdresser. As long as the person looks like a female. I have been with a few transexuals and very much enjoy it and I have also been with females and really enjoyed it. I am not attracted to a male at all. A man who presents as a man is of no interest to me as a lover or even as a friend. Not that I hate men but I am a little scared of them sometimes. They are usually too aggressive for me. They usually expect me to be tough and aggressive like they are and I just cannot be. So yes I am bi....but I only become interested if they look like a female. I like girls, even if they have "something extra".

[LaurenB]

There's nothing wrong with being Bi. I went through the exact same thing as you. On the other side I now accept that I'm Bi and TG (or possibly Bi-Gendered - would that be Bi-Squared?). Talk about the best of all worlds. It doesn't mean that I violate my wedding vows, though. Acceptance of self is the most powerful personal thing one can do. FYI- Bi is NOT gay and does not equate to promiscuous - common misconceptions.

[Laura28]

Kelli, Wow i could have wrote your comment. I am married and have two adult children, and yes i guess i would classified as Bi since i have been with men a few times. My wifes knows it and is ok with it. She says i know you are not gay and dont find men attractive so me playing with a man once and a while does not bother her, (She is always aware if i do) she knows i love with all my heart and would never leave her. She is very supportive of my CD'ing. As i posted on the other thread, for me it is only about the sex with a man. I dont find men attractive or want to be with one, i just like the sexual aspect of. So not to worry you are not alone. Beside today BI seems to be in style LOL.

[Paula DAngelo]

Kelli, I too know how you feel. While I'm not married I am living with a wonderful girl and wouldn't do anything to hurt her. With that being said I also have sexual feelings towards men however mine aren't only with me being dressed, so I have no doubt that I am bi-sexual. I know as long as I'm in my current relationship that I won't act on these feelings but if my situation changed who knows. I guess what I'm trying to say is no you're not alone in how you feel, and that you're not messed up, you're just you, so be the best you that you can be.

[Tashee]

Please do not feel alone. You could have written that about me. One difference is I did test my sexual boundries. This was not odd behaviour from me. My Scientific mind wanted to test (me) whom I really am. Yes My sexuality is the same dressed, en drab etc-The only difference is the chosen clothes. When I became very ill it all really hit home. As I was as much as I once was Minus the dressing and desire too.
~ Hope I wrote this correct~
With Luv~~

[Meghan]

This is tough for me to deal with and I kind of feel alone in this forum. Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

You're not alone, Kelli.

Some people are strictly hetro, but I believe there are a lot of us out there who have attraction to being with men, but are not willing to admit it due to social stigma, fear of what it "means" etc.

It's confusing to a lot of us to want to experience the world as female, except for "that". For some, the idea of being with men as women is arousing as an extension of the role. Some are truly attracted to men and find them sexually interesting.

Either way it's hard to sort out what's really happening when crossdressing and/or transgender issues, in general, makes clarity hard to find to begin with!

Meghan

[JeanneF]

you are not alone, not by a long shot. There's a quote from an old thread that went something like this "you're wearing a dress, wig and heels dude. you might not be gay, but ya damn sure ain't straight", LOL.

I sometimes wonder if the reason that the "zomg am I teh gay?!!" threads evoke such a powerful and immediate response is perhaps a bit of defensiveness/denial. I'd honestly be surprised if most of us haven't at least fantasized about ourselves as women with a man. I'm married, and straight too (though I'll admit to some adolescent experimentation like 25 years ago -- it just wasn't for me), but ... I guess my point is ... why worry about it?

It's not like you're contemplating heading out to a bar, pickin' up dudes, divorcing your wife, turning your whole life upside down etc.
Sounds to me like you're attracted to the idea of yourself as a woman with a man which is by no means uncommon 'round these parts (even if there are a few who will loudly deny it, LOL).

Amen to that, sister.

Kelli - I think that you are in a much larger percentage than some of the more vocal "I'm straight goddammit" members of this board are willing to admit. I think that questioning one's sexuality is normal, especially if one is already questioning his/her gender identity. Who you are physically attracted to isn't ever something to be ashamed about, or to deny.

I'm happy to admit that I have bi tendencies, but I'm also in a happy, committed relationship and I'm not going to do anything to screw that up. There are plenty of ways to experiment with being the "female" in your relationship with your wife, if she's willing to give it a shot.

[minalost]

Kelli, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were describing me.
No, you're far from being alone.

I was going to say the same thing but Shari beat me too it! Sometimes I think we think we SHOULD be attracted be men because we like to dress as women. This is just us falling for the old stereotype that "crossdressers are gay." The brain washing we all get as young males is hard to break even by those of us that should know better!

[Stefanie jones]

I am hetero fetish cd. I love dressing up and love women. Married in the closet. When I get dress I fantasize about hetero sex with a man cause then I am a woman that's me and that's u embrace acknowledge enjoy

[Rogina B]

Some of us refer to sexual activity as a TG as"the dark side". I have met many dressers that are "bi curious" in that they are often asking "what happens on the dark side?"....They may not find men attractive,however they find men in dresses attractive..So,they become confused and some keep it bottled up,and others give the dark side a try. Being with "boys in dresses" is often viewed differently than being with "a straight man"! lol

[kittypw GG]

This is tough for me to deal with and I kind of feel alone in this forum. Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

I think the thing that makes me the most angry is the myth that crossdressers are mostly heterosexual. That is the biggest lie out there. Almost all crossdressers profess they are attracted to men or fantasize about being "taken" by a man when out of the earshot of their so's. That ain't exactly heterosexual straight in my book. I think when this population finally comes clean, that will be the day the acceptance of the world at large begins.

[Kate Simmons]

As Kitty pointed out, being honest with who we are and what our feelings are is the real first step to getting there.:)

[Marleena]

I think the thing that makes me the most angry is the myth that crossdressers are mostly heterosexual. That is the biggest lie out there. Almost all crossdressers profess they are attracted to men or fantasize about being "taken" by a man when out of the earshot of their so's. That ain't exactly heterosexual straight in my book. I think when this population finally comes clean, that will be the day the acceptance of the world at large begins.

Get ready for it, you opened a can of worms there. Then why do most Cders want nothing to do with or be represented by the LGBT alliance? Nice try though.

[Tamara Croft]

<snip> is the myth that crossdressers are mostly heterosexual. That is the biggest lie out there. Almost all crossdressers profess they are attracted to men or fantasize about being "taken" by a man when out of the earshot of their so's.And you base your evidence on what exactly? Just because you fantasize about something, doesn't mean you want it to really happen and if a CD fantasizes about something, then so what? what gives you the right to say they aren't heterosexual?

Just because you still have sour grapes about your ex-SO, don't come here tarring the other members with the same brush, you're out of order!

[Badtranny]

I think the thing that makes me the most angry is the myth that crossdressers are mostly heterosexual.

No Kitty, not even I can get behind this. Most of the CD's that I have met (and I bet I've met more than you have) really are heterosexual. They really do have a distinct preference for women, BUT I also have a hard time calling them "straight" I mean they ARE just a little bent right?

I do understand your frustration with the whole concept of these nancy boys getting so adamant about their straightness though. It's hysterical and a lil bit surreal to sit at a table with 4 or 5 middle aged men, dressed in cocktail finery and a name tag that says Tiffany or something all trying to prove to each other how straight they are. Any of they guys that work for me (unless they're CD's) would walk in and immediately consider them all gay. Not out of hatred or malice, but simple ignorance of the fact that some hetero guys like to get their girl on sometimes. I don't really understand the appeal of working so hard to look like a woman if you don't want to attract men, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they're not into men. It's a thing, and they are an interesting group of people to say the least.

What I find perplexing is how upset so many of them get at the mere hint of an adventurous sexuality. I think it must be their age because if they could see how silly they look to those of us who really don't care either way I think most of them would just shrug and say "who cares?" I mean, once you've worn a dress and wig to the mall, do you really need to invest so much energy into a label like straight?

During the "gender queer" phase of my transition, I would find myself at lunch with a friend or a client and I would invariably bring up the idea to them that people may think we're together, since I looked quite gay with my long hair and earrings. Maybe it's the Bay Area but all of them would just chuckle and say they didn't give a damn. Or make a joke about dating worse looking women or maybe the bartender is gay and he'll pour me a double. These guys were all straight (as far as I know) but they just didn't care if the other people or the waitress or whatever thought they were gay. They were simply secure in the knowledge that they weren't and it's no big deal if people think they are.

So why would a guy who dresses up like a girl and calls himself Receda give a damn if people think he's gay? Or bi, or anything for that matter?

[Nikki_C]

I am hetero fetish cd. I love dressing up and love women. Married in the closet. When I get dress I fantasize about hetero sex with a man cause then I am a woman that's me and that's u embrace acknowledge enjoy

For a moment, I thought this was my post!

Anyways... I think I am just a lesbian trapped in a man's body. I, too, am attracted to the female and the female form. The thought of attracted to a man never really entered my mind. But I do fantasize about having sex with a man when I am dressed. Just sex, not attraction. If that makes sense???

[windycissy]

You're not messed up at all, in fact your description of your feelings fits me to a T...the hard part will be suppressing your curiousity to find out what it's like to act on your fantasies, which can be done but the risks of hooking up with a man are huge, and you have a lovely wife and children to protect, but take it from me, you're not alone in having those feelings.

[ReineD]

I don't really understand the appeal of working so hard to look like a woman if you don't want to attract men, but that doesn't mean I don't believe they're not into men. It's a thing, and they are an interesting group of people to say the least.

I had a hard time with this in the beginning with my SO. I just could not understand who she was wanting to attract when she wore a curve-hugging, short sweater dress out for dinner with me (since as a hetero GG, I'm not prone to being attracted to curvaceous women), the same type of dress that I would wear specifically to attract my SO (or another man if I were single)! It took a while before I could understand the "self-focused" vs. "other-focused" concept when it comes to beauty and attraction. It was simply my SO's way of looking as feminine as she could in order to distance herself as much as possible from her male image. But, this was in the beginning when she was starting to go out. Now, she dresses just like I do. :)

[Meghan]

It was simply my SO's way of looking as feminine as she could in order to distance herself as much as possible from her male image. But, this was in the beginning when she was starting to go out. Now, she dresses just like I do. :)

I have never thought of it this way.

I am so glad you are here sharing your perspective.

Meghan

[shycheri]

Kelli I think you are just being honest.My last girlfriend ,who knew and supported my dressing told me that I should try a "date" with a guy at least once !I recoiled and said no Im not gay and she said what about BI?She claimed that I will never know in less I try it.She also said that I was afraid to find out and thats why I wouldn't try a date with a guy.I have to say after much thought she is probably correct.At least you,Kelli are honest enough to say it.I think I am still afraid to find out.

[STACY B]

kelli<3 -- Don't worry sissta ,,That's why they call it a Fantasy ! An that's why it's such a Big Deal when a Fantasy comes true . They mostly stay a Fantasy an that's what makes them just what they are . Sometimes a Fantasy is better going unrealized ,, Makes it all the Better ,, For the simple fact you can always Control it , Once your Fantasy is Fulfilled you can't ever change it nor have it again ,, It's not a Fantasy any more it Reality then ! So don't worry about your personal thoughts keep them personal an keep your little Fantasy ,, Remember it's all your's ,, So no one can take it from you ,,, Life is just a Fantasy ,,, Can you live this Fantasy Life ??

[Kaz]

I had a hard time with this in the beginning with my SO. I just could not understand who she was wanting to attract when she wore a curve-hugging, short sweater dress out for dinner with me (since as a hetero GG, I'm not prone to being attracted to curvaceous women), the same type of dress that I would wear specifically to attract my SO (or another man if I were single)! It took a while before I could understand the "self-focused" vs. "other-focused" concept when it comes to beauty and attraction. It was simply my SO's way of looking as feminine as she could in order to distance herself as much as possible from her male image. But, this was in the beginning when she was starting to go out. Now, she dresses just like I do. :)

This is a really great thread that has got me thinking a LOT. Reine, as usual you are spot on, but I have never thought who I would 'attract'... if I am 'out' I just want to get back home intact! But that in itself begs the question of why we go out dressed?

Kitty's post disturbed me... OK I appreciate that it must be terribly hard for a GG to come to terms with this strange world we find ourselves in... but we are not ONE community... we are all individuals and, as evidenced here, all come come from different places, so it isn't a simple case of 'come clean' you are like 'THEM'!

To the OP... yeah you are not messed up and many of us are in your space. The more I identify with Kaz as a female the more I also fantasise about having sex as a female... I mean that is kind of the big one that we will never experience, as well as giving birth and so on? So what is so wrong with this... we can dress up for all we are worth, but there are places we will never be able to go in the real world.

So in my dreams, yeah, Kaz would like to have the real deal... warts and all... but is 'Ken' attracted to guys... sorry... the answers is a straight no. If I am ever 'taken' by a guy I want to be Kaz, and sadly she ain't built like that! In the meantime, I never feel 'attracted' to guys... but women are a very different matter all together!

[Kelli<3]

Thanks for all the responses. I guess I'm not alone. All of the different perspectives on this issue did help me in identifying where I stand. I'm not sure how "bi" I really am, as I am primarily attracted to women but then there are the fantasies and desires as Kelli. I do know this will all remain fantasy since I am married and would never do anything to go against my wedding vows, I love my wife and children.

If I am honest with myself I really don't think I can call myself straight. Sorry but I don't consider wearing pretty dresses and having these fantasies very straight. I know some of you are completely straight and I understand that. Like I said before I think my attraction to men is more about my attraction to being a woman than the attraction to men themselves.

Hopefully I haven't shocked or upset my wife too much with all my talk of this. I told her I would be honest with her regarding this whole CD thing and I didn't feel right keeping these thoughts and fantasies from her. I don't plan on acting on anything and I am very attracted to and happy with my wife. She is a beautiful woman and mother to our children who I love with all my heart.

[ReineD]

Like I said before I think my attraction to men is more about my attraction to being a woman than the attraction to men themselves.

Right. There's a term for this and quite a bit has been written about it both here and online. The topic is also controversial, depending on whether it is looked at from a CD vs. a TS point of view. You can read about it in these threads:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/tags.php?tag=autogynephilia

You might want to see if you can channel your sexuality towards your wife somehow, no matter your fantasies. I've spoken to many GGs in the past who have felt left out when they perceived their husbands were attracted to either men, or themselves dressed, and honestly I felt the same type of insecurities in my own relationship with my SO in the beginning.

[SabrinaEmily]

I am theoretically bi. Theoretically in that I think that some of the acts are potentially of interest to me, but I am only very rarely attracted to actual men. (I can only remember two, total, in my lifetime, who interested me for more than 2 minutes, and those were more or less 30 years ago; not a thing happened with respect to those two.)

I no longer remember how long it has been since being "straight" was important to me; on the other hand, the alternatives are very low priority for me. Sort of like me saying that, "Okay, I admit the possibility that there might be a Brussels' Sprout that I might enjoy, but it does seem rather implausible I would ever find one."

I'll believe you if you've tried and disliked roasted brussels sprouts. I've never had any other kind, but I'm told that they're completely different from boiled ones, which, apparently, easily become unpleasantly bitter.

Back to your regularly scheduled "bi when dressed" thread...

[heatherdress]

Hi Kelli - I appreciate your thoughts and the comments offered. You are not messed up for feeling what you are feeling. I would only add that a good therapist would be beneficial to talk to and assure you.

[Kelli<3]

Right. There's a term for this and quite a bit has been written about it both here and online. The topic is also controversial, depending on whether it is looked at from a CD vs. a TS point of view. You can read about it in these threads:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/tags.php?tag=autogynephilia

You might want to see if you can channel your sexuality towards your wife somehow, no matter your fantasies. I've spoken to many GGs in the past who have felt left out when they perceived their husbands were attracted to either men, or themselves dressed, and honestly I felt the same type of insecurities in my own relationship with my SO in the beginning.

Thanks for this Reine. First I'd like to thank you for the time you take to respond to so many of these threads. I have read many of your posts and they are always so insightful and well written. You are one of the best assets to this forum, please don't stop posting.

I heard about this term before and had read a little but not in much detail. I took the time to read some of the threads on autogynephilia in the forum and it really helped identify what's going on in my head. The problem is it scared the crap out of me. I understand the theory but when looked at from a CD or TS point of view I can't tell you where I am. Somewhere in the middle or maybe I don't really know. I think I became really good at denying and blocking out certain things in my head and it worked for awhile as long as I was occupied with other things. Trying to now deal with all of these thoughts all at once is really overwhelming and I'm left even more confused.

It leaves me wondering if I'm just a CD? I think I am but when I begin to think about my reasons for dressing it doesn't seem so clear. To be honest I haven't even dressed completely yet. I love wearing women's clothes but it is not so much about the clothes but more feeling and looking feminine even without the clothes. Lately I have been more focused on shaving, epilating, exfoliating, moisturizing, painting my nails, etc. than buying and wearing women's clothes.

I have had a fairly happy life up to this point trying to block out all of these crazy thoughts in my head. Maybe I should stick with what has *almost* worked. I love my wife and family so much and don't want to hurt them or lose them, they make me happy more than anything else in my life. It's like a switch was turned on in my head earlier this year and now I can't turn it back off....maybe it's just the "pink fog".

[Tracii G]

My question would it not be cheating on your wife to have sex with a man?
Even if you are bi or bi curious how is sex with out love a good thing?

I had all those questions too years ago and did date a man for a while and really had some deep feelings for him.
He and I had issues but all in all it was something that helped me figure out just where I fit in the grand scheme.

Just because you dress does not mean you are gay or bi.

[ReineD]

I have had a fairly happy life up to this point trying to block out all of these crazy thoughts in my head. Maybe I should stick with what has *almost* worked. I love my wife and family so much and don't want to hurt them or lose them, they make me happy more than anything else in my life. It's like a switch was turned on in my head earlier this year and now I can't turn it back off....maybe it's just the "pink fog".

No one here will ever be able to say whether you are TS or not. If you begin posting in the TS section, they will relate to your feelings and say they went through the same thing. If you continue to post in the CD section, some of the CDers who've been doing this for awhile will say they also went through the same thing, and for them it was pink fog. And a lot of people who are in the middle of their journey, like you, will sympathize and say they also question whether or not they are TS.

I can only relate through direct observation, my SO's journey. In a nutshell she began CDing as a teenager, didn't CD much during her 20s & early 30s while she was working on her degree, was in a long term relationship later in her 30s at which point she and her SO began exploring a little but mostly in the bedroom. In her 40s they ended their relationship (nothing to do with feminine expression), and so she was single for about 10 years before she met me, which left her free to explore this unfettered. This is when her cross-gender expression really took off. She joined a support group where she needed to establish a female name and from there a concrete feminine persona evolved with all the same desires that you write about. She also questioned her gender and sexuality big time during those years and after exploration she knew that she was attracted to women. The only barrier left to overcome by the time she met me was to take it out of the closet and begin interacting with others who did not know her male side. She began doing this with my support and has accomplished this successfully (she goes out regularly in the mainstream and has gotten to know many people who do not know her guy side, all while maintaining her privacy closer to home), and the pendulum that had once swung big time over to the feminine side has settled somewhere in the middle. She now identifies as dualgender, since she never did reach the point of feeling as if all her male parts were not congruent with her gender identity.

I'm not saying this is your jouney, just relating my SO's who was in the fortunate position of taking it, with no constraints, as far as she felt that she needed to. Had she felt constrained in any way, I often wonder if she would have come to the same conclusions about herself.

[VictoriaP]

I am! I am! And I looove your toe nail color!!
Hugs ---- Vicky

[Ceri Anne]

Kelli, your completely normal, and for now I would consider you bi courious, not that it matters. I'm straight, do not have any attraction to men, but I did entertain fantisies as a woman, and decieded it wasn't for me. There is nothing wrong with being open, honest and thinking your way thru something outloud here.

[Stephanie47]

I skipped all the responses. I do not consider you to be bi or bi curious. Everyone has fantasies about something. Yes, I sometimes ponder what it would be like to be treated sexually like a woman. Would I ever act upon those fantasies? No. They are fantasies. I am straight. I am not attracted to males. I find myself gazing wantonly at attractive women. However, I would never step outside my marital boundaries. Being married does not mean your thoughts are dead. Have all the fantasies you want. It's normal.

[reb.femme]

I started to reply to the straight CD vs gay CD thread but I have more on my mind then the scope of that thread.

.......My attraction to men is primarily sexual and centers around me as a woman. However I don't think this magically goes away and I turn straight when I'm not dressed. I'm one and the same person whether I'm dressed as a man or woman, I just feel that part of me is female. I have had fantasies about men for awhile now, mostly with me dressed, and some are pretty intense. I don't plan on acting on these fantasies since I am married and love my wife and would never to anything to risk my relationship with her or my family.

This is tough for me to deal with and I kind of feel alone in this forum. Every thread I see in this forum discussing sexuality is usually filled with replies professing how straight as an arrow everyone is and I'm left thinking "really, am I that messed up?". Are any of you like me?

I believe in "Vive la difference" and you aren't alone on this site, seen several posts describing what you are experiencing. Also, as a straight guy (straight as an arrow etc etc) if I were to think you were a bit weird, that would be hugely hypocritical from someone that loves to present as female.

But all in, the old and apt adage (changed for this site) would be "one girl's meat is another girl's poison".....pun intended!. :heehee:

Rebecca

[Sporco]

I'm just the same. I think you're right in that we are in the minority though.

[AmandaM]

I share this 'fantasy' though I now realise it is more the strong female desires that kick in when dressed rather than being bi.

This is my feeling too. I think that inside me there is not only a partial female identity but also a partial female sexuality, though I'm not always in touch with it. I don't think the term autogynephilia can adequately explain how I feel inside. I think my fantasies include two components:
1. Dressing up, tactile sensations, etc. which are a turn-on, like many CDers have. This is sometimes enough for, ahem, a happy ending. Other times I'm a CDer with a woman, or sometimes a man.
2. Dressing up and feeling like a woman. Doesn't always lead to something sexual, but if it does, I "experience" sex as a woman. In my mind, I have a woman's body, etc.
Why do these two realms exist and seem different? I'm not sure. I think maybe the first case can be explained by autogynephilia, but I'm not so sure about the second. I do tend to sway back and forth between CDer and TS. So maybe my fantasy life reflects the same sort of pendulum. Maybe I fantasize like a run-of-the-mill transvestite at times, and at other times my fantasies move toward more TS-oriented content. I don't know. But I know there's a difference at times.

[whowhatwhen]

Thanks for all the responses. I guess I'm not alone. All of the different perspectives on this issue did help me in identifying where I stand. I'm not sure how "bi" I really am, as I am primarily attracted to women but then there are the fantasies and desires as Kelli.

I would say that being bisexual requires you to be attracted to both sexes regardless of which gender you're presenting as or how you feel at the time.
If you're in guy mode and not at least occasionally checking out men, or completely fail to find them physically attractive then chances are you're just plain ol' straight.

Of course being straight doesn't exempt you from being "queer as a 3 dollar bill", which is a lovely phrase I've heard here so I'm stealing it.
:P

Oddly enough I have the reverse issue, women can be sexy as hell but I just have no interest in having sex with one.

PS:
You don't need a man for certain parts of such fantasies to be fulfilled, just feel out if your wife is willing to play the male role in the bedroom.

[heatherdress]

Kelli - Maybe a therapist would be helpful to consider sorting things out.

[Amymonroe]

you are not alone i too am in the same situation minus children. my SO and i have had many discussion on this. you have my support!

amy

[Kelli<3]

My question would it not be cheating on your wife to have sex with a man? Even if you are bi or bi curious how is sex with out love a good thing?
It would be cheating which is why I will not act on it. I never said I was looking to try or act on any of this, I'm just trying to figure out who and what I am. Thoughts and fantasies don't have to become reality.



Just because you dress does not mean you are gay or bi.I agree. But in my case this goes beyond the fact I dress. Thinking about the reasons I dress and the thoughts I have while I'm dressed and not dressed made me question if I may be bi or something more complicated. The more I read and look within myself it makes me think it is more complicated than just being bi or straight. Autogynephilia explains some or most of what I'm feeling but doesn't seem to fit me perfectly, it actually makes me think I lean more toward being a TS than CD but I really don't think I am TS. The only thing I'm sure of is that I'm not gay, but that's about it.

[laura.lapinski]

Kelli,

I think you have it in proper perspective. I wouldn't worry yourself too much about whatever conclusion you finally settle on. In fact, don't worry at all. It's a wasted emotion in this case because there is nothing to worry about. Just enjoy yourself. You will know what it is you need in time. I think I pretty much understand why it is I feel the things I feel, and think the things I do, but it took me a long time to figure that out, even after I started putting concsious thought to it. I think you are pretty close to figuring it out, but it could take you another year or so of thinking on it before you come to the realization. The main thing is, just relax. It will come to you easier and quicker that way.

[Nikki Dresser]

Hi Kellie,
You're certainly not the only cd who feels that way. I've been cd since age 12, and have always considered myself to be 'straight' but with a curiosity about men. I was never brave enough to act on this, apart from the odd sneaky look in group showers or public toilets. That all changed about 10 years ago, when I deceided to meet a guy and find out if this was in my head or not. I'm pleased and proud to say that it was one of the most sexually intense times of my life and I can now happilly classify myself as 'bi'. I don't really like pigeonholing people, though. You are what you are.
If you love your wife, and you're happy with her, good for you and good luck to you. To be honest, though, I do worry for you that the fantasies will eventually grow into a need to discover. I truly believe that no one should hold back from being themselves, so I'm sorry, but if you have that need to sleep with a guy, you should do it instead of living a life thinking 'what if'.
Love
Nikki
xxxxx

[ReineD]

If you love your wife, and you're happy with her, good for you and good luck to you. To be honest, though, I do worry for you that the fantasies will eventually grow into a need to discover. I truly believe that no one should hold back from being themselves, so I'm sorry, but if you have that need to sleep with a guy, you should do it instead of living a life thinking 'what if'.

I'm curious. Were you in a committed relationship (with children?) when you had sex with that guy, and did your relationship survive? If you weren't then I think your advice is rather narrow.

Also, both things are true: men who have always had the propensity to be bi but who, because of social conditioning perhaps, didn't know it until later in their lives. And CDers whose sexual fantasies over experiencing sex as a woman cause them to use men as the props in their fantasies, and who would not be capable of having a relationship with another man.

To break it down further, there are also infinite motives for being with someone. There is a difference between being other-focused and having sex with him because you're really into him vs. being totally self-focused and enjoying the sex because it fulfills an intensely powerful fantasy. In my opinion, the first would indicate that the CDer is bi and the second would indicate someone whose sex partners are interchangeable simply to fulfill the fantasy, in other words, the partners are props. I personally would not like to be such a partner.

But, maybe I'm looking at it this way because as a GG, it's difficult for me to separate pure sex from a desire to bond emotionally with someone even if it is for the short term. I do know that I would not be able to have sex with someone just because I was attracted to a specific body part and nothing else. Maybe it's different with guys, even if they fantasize they are women.

[whowhatwhen]

WARNING: Uneducated theory ahead

Burn me at the stake for saying this, but fantasizing about/having sex with men, even if you're the woman in the act is not something a straight cisgender male is going to do.
It's just that IMO straight men don't lust after penises.

That doesn't at all mean you're deep-down ultra-homogay, and doesn't prevent you from finding women attractive.
I just wonder (and have a theory) that fear based repression can cause something like this, and perhaps the fantasies are the male attraction starting to "leak out".

It's a tough, complex, and confusing thing I guess.
The question is, how many who have fantasies of being on the receiving end of a good rogering will later come to accept being attracted to the male form and to men?

[kimdl93]

...maybe I'm looking at it this way because as a GG, it's difficult for me to separate pure sex from a desire to bond emotionally with someone even if it is for the short term. I do know that I would not be able to have sex with someone just because I was attracted to a specific body part and nothing else. Maybe it's different with guys, even if they fantasize they are women.

I think you're looking at this as a mature adult. In my view, if a couple is married, they have taken a vow to remain monagamously faithful to one another. I will grant that some exceptions exist - some couples do engage in open marriage - but its exceedingly rare and seldom enduring. My feeling is that, as a person who had some bi-experiences in earlier life, that the commitment to my spouse supercedes fantasies or realities. Once that marriage has taken place, any extracurricular activity jeopardizes the relationship.

[Melissa73]

i have to admit, when i am dressed i desire men, but then afterwards i have no desire whatsoever! I have discovered it stems from the fact that when dressed, i wanna be treated like a woman and be loved like a woman....
melissa73.

[Badtranny]

It's just that IMO straight men don't lust after penises.

OMG don't you get it?!

I am NOT gay! I just like to dress up like a woman and fantasize about giving blowjobs. I am as straight as it gets!

There is something wrong with this world when a man can't dream of making sweet love to another man while wearing Sexy Little Things from VS without people insisting that he might be Bi or something.

I LOVE women dammit!

[I Am Paula]

I think alot of us may feel the same here. The desire to have sex with men is one thing. The desire to have a relationship is another.-Celeste

[whowhatwhen]

Admitting you find men attractive apparently dooms you to only being attracted to the biggest, buffest, hairiest of bears while women become so repulsive it's like a vampire in the sun.
As far as society has come, any label except for "straight" is seen as inherently inferior and something to be avoided at all costs.

Perhaps the CD aspect and fantasizing oneself as a woman makes it okay?
It's no longer gay sex because you're a woman and he's a man, clearly that makes it straight.

Still random crap coming off the top of my head, as I'm still trying to understand how and why I went from "straight" to "hmm... he's kinda hot." regardless of my state of dress.

[sami1952]

don't feel like you are alone with this feeling for i feel the same. always felt like i was suppose to be a female and have lived with that all my life. Like you when i'm dress up i feel like a woman and like to be treated like a woman to include itimatcey.I can't avoid the feelings i have ,they're there can't avoid them and i'm not ashame of them. that's just who i am.:):daydreaming:

[JeanneF]

OMG don't you get it?!

I am NOT gay! I just like to dress up like a woman and fantasize about giving blowjobs. I am as straight as it gets!

There is something wrong with this world when a man can't dream of making sweet love to another man while wearing Sexy Little Things from VS without people insisting that he might be Bi or something.

I LOVE women dammit!

I have met that girl more than once at various crossdresser get-togethers. Usually that's the one who goes well past the fantasizing parts after a couple of cocktails.

[kathtx]

I have discovered it stems from the fact that when dressed, i wanna be treated like a woman and be loved like a woman....

Since variations on this same sentence keep coming up every five posts or so, I think I should point out that there are millions of genetic women out there for whom "being loved like a woman" has nothing whatsoever to do with men. If you're attracted to men there's nothing at all wrong with that, but having sex with men (whether actual or fantasy) is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for being female. Even on this forum we seem to be blinded by the heteronormative assumption that one is a woman if and only if one desires men. It just ain't so.

[TonyaV]

Kitty - you are absolutely correct. I am also puzzled. I think there are some of us who are straight, but I also think a large number is "closeted" about it for fear their SO finds out. But I won't be surprised if the majority wouldn't mind being taken by a man, especially if they look passable. It is possible "passability" may be the key here.

[rita63]

I had a relationship with a man befor marriage and have always wanted another one. I am not attracted to all men or to all women, the pereson and the caring are what matter. Now that I am single again I am more interested in a man but who knows, never say never.

hugs rita

[ReineD]

Kitty - you are absolutely correct. I am also puzzled. I think there are some of us who are straight, but I also think a large number is "closeted" about it for fear their SO finds out. But I won't be surprised if the majority wouldn't mind being taken by a man, especially if they look passable. It is possible "passability" may be the key here.

If you or others are happy with purely a sexual relationship with a man who is into pre-op or non-op T-girls for the one thing that GGs don't have (a penis), if you don't mind not going out with him to meet his family and friends and attend his company Christmas party with him arm in arm, then it can be a good life. But, this would feel empty to me in the long run and eventually we all age, the pool of men who are interested in us sexually also age and lose interest and we cannot attract younger men because they are attracted to women, trans or otherwise, who are younger than us.

Generally speaking.

Also, unfortunately there are just as many straight men who can move past the idea that their girlfriend was a birth male (if she has transitioned), as there are straight women who can stay the course with a transitioning husband. This is sad but until our society comes to embrace transness better than it does at the moment, it is what it is.

[pippinfort]

Hi i am straight with a lttle kink at the end that I just cannot seem to straighten.... this kink has not yet been investigated so i leave it be.

[SissyJane]

im very bisexual, thats how it is for me.

[kristinacd55]

I'm attracted to guys when dressed as well, as I shared with my now "semi-separated" wife which has led to where we're at in our relationship now which right now is towards divorce. I actually had my first date with a man about a month ago and did enjoy myself too. My wife's been dating since February also.....men that is. However, my first attraction will always be to gg's, but this attraction to men when dressed is something that will always be with me I believe.

[Vickie_CDTV]

But, this would feel empty to me in the long run and eventually we all age, the pool of men who are interested in us sexually also age and lose interest and we cannot attract younger men because they are attracted to women, trans or otherwise, who are younger than us.


While this is still largely true today, things are changing and attitudes about the "older" woman are beginning to change. While obviously not the majority, there are more and more young males who desire and prefer a woman of age today.

[mike~the~islandman]

I have met that girl more than once at various crossdresser get-togethers. Usually that's the one who goes well past the fantasizing parts after a couple of cocktails.

So true. Anytime someone feels uncertain about something, alcohol will likely flood all defenses and bring out any inevitable truth.

[NyssaF]

Throw me in along with everyone else. :) I think it's perfectly normal to have bi feelings while dressed. But then again, I'm bi, so maybe my perceptions are skewed? I've had oral sex with a handful of men, never while I was dressed. If there were a time when I were dressed, it might lead to more....

[Victoriana]

I'm still trying to figure this out. I don't look at men when I am not dressed but when I am dressed up I think about wanting to go out with one and date and see where it leads. I can think of men in a sexual way and not just the male part either which is strange...the whole package when dressed. But for some reason I think I am lying to myself and I may not be interested at all. Curious yes, maybe it is part of trying to pass and feeling feminine. Whatever it is...I'm figuring this out somehow. What would be the best way one might ask. I hope it isn't trying it out for real because that is a whole new world.

[prene]

nice story and I have the same thoughts also.

I just do not have the wife and 2 kids.

You are the lucky one and not alone