Protective Order

[StephanieJ]

I need help my sisters! My ex-wife was granted a restraining order against me yesterday, which prevents me from having any contact with my children through the end of the month.

A little background - I have dressed in private since before we were married and her acceptance level waxed and waned. She is a therapist in training who suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder and has been on various psychotropic drugs. Two weeks ago my 76 year old neighbor went senile and murdered his wife with a hammer. The man was a friend who I knew well and in a Facebook post I said that I sympathized with him prayed for him. Apparently my ex took this as a threat.

In the testimony she gave to obtain the order she said, "He has led a double life for years as a secret cross dresser and has continually hid from me. Although that does not physically threaten me, I want to illustrate that he is deceitful, unpredictable, and ill."

With that, the judge granted the order! Apparently in small town Utah transgenderism is viewed as a significant threat... I was planning a Thanksgiving trip with my children to visit their grandparents, will now have to be cancelled. :sad: (Her real motive in the first place...) I have been advised to seek out the most competent and nasty attorney I can find, which I am doing. Another friend suggested talking to our pastor (who knows our situation and has counseled us in the past.)

Any other sage advice???

[Angela Campbell]

When my first wife physically attacked me in front of witnesses the police only told her to go home. I went to a judge and asked for a restraining order and he refused. The law is a bit biased and unfair sometimes. For the next few months she broke into my apartment, damaged my car and did all kinds of mean things to our kids to punish me. The law was not willing to help at all. The only thing I was able to do was eventually move across the country to get away from her.

She did not know about my crossdressing at all.

[jillleanne]

Forget the pastor idea unless she is glued to his wisdom,which carries no legal abilities. Try to find good legal council educated in tg matters, among other things. Did the judge in fact explicitly base his decision on the fact you are ill from tg activities secretly without any critical proof?
Get yourself some competent council.

[Lady Slipper]

Wow, that is messed up, Stephanie! :eek: My heart goes out to you. :hugs: Good legal counsel is in order. To quote Breaking Bad "Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, and sometimes you need a criminal lawyer. Better call Saul!

Oops, double post, mods may delete at your leasure!

[Barbara Ella]

You need the best legal support you can get to point out her lies an deceit in her statements to the judge. Likely nothing can be done right now, but the next time you need to unload on her.

Barbara

[StephanieJ]

When my first wife physically attacked me in front of witnesses the police only told her to go home. I went to a judge and asked for a restraining order and he refused. The law is a bit biased and unfair sometimes.

Oh, I'm so sorry. That's terrible, but it brings up an excellent point. The law tends to favor women when it comes to these matters. If it was you who acted that way you would have likely been arrested, yet she walks away with a warning. When I hear stories like this I smile to think that if they only knew... I AM the woman in this relationship, perhaps the law would favor us. But alas, I am dreaming as that will never happen.


Forget the pastor idea unless she is glued to his wisdom...

Ah, but she is! That's the beauty of it. She is very altruistic and I suspect that if he advised her to back down that she might listen.

I don't know for sure about "illness" being the grounds for the judges decision, but I will find out until we go to trial. I've certainly given no other grounds whatsoever for the order. Ex wife even admitted in the request that I have never laid a hand on her. (Nor would I!) I'm the most gentile guy you could ever meet, as I believe most of us tend to be.

You have just made my day!!!!!!! Love that show. It's been such a long crappy week and it feels good to laugh for a minute. THANK YOU.

I am definitely looking for a criminal lawyer. Do you have Saul's number? LOL (BTW, I'm not just saying that, I literally did laugh out loud...)

[vetobob9]

Ah, but she is! That's the beauty of it. She is very altruistic and I suspect that if he advised her to back down that she might listen.

I don't know for sure about "illness" being the grounds for the judges decision, but I will find out until we go to trial. I've certainly given no other grounds whatsoever for the order. Ex wife even admitted in the request that I have never laid a hand on her. (Nor would I!) I'm the most gentile guy you could ever meet, as I believe most of us tend to be.
Appeal it. The decision was either biased or based on false I formation.

[StephanieJ]

I have lots of evidence to refute her allegations, but what I would love to have is a scientific study of some sort stating that Transgenderism is neither an illness nor is it dangerous. Perhaps I'll have to wait until the new DSM V comes out...

[AllieSF]

Make sure your attorney gets all the documents filed by your wife at the court. You should have access to it so that your attorney can help you prepare an adequate defense. I guy I have coffee with is suffering from something similar, legal action by his wife against him preventing him from seeing his kids without a paid witness. It sucks, but you need to protect yourself too. Good luck.

[docrobbysherry]

I have lots of evidence to refute her allegations, but what I would love to have is a scientific study of some sort stating that Transgenderism is neither an illness nor is it dangerous. Perhaps I'll have to wait until the new DSM V comes out...
You're dealing with a judge, not a psychiatrist, Stephanie. They normally deal with the law, not "studies". U need a lawyer. The BEST u can find and afford. Restraining orders r like the Little League of legal issues. Sounds like you may be headed for a major custody battle. That's where all personal info may be presented and will be weighed to by a judge. That's the legal Major Leagues! U could lose all contact with your kids! A good attorney will know that and plan accordingly.

Police generally don't get involved in domestic disputes unless violence is involved. They leave that for judges and court rooms.

[NathalieX66]

Some legal channels:

http://transgenderlegal.org/

http://www.lambdalegal.org/


hope this helps. :)

[giuseppina]

Hello Stephanie

I am saddened but not particularly surprised that this has happened, as I've seen this sort of nonsense happen myself, but not to me personally. The judge may have made a legal error by allowing stereotyping to enter his judgements. This is way OTT.

Your ex is still in "fight to the death" mode.

Aside: Are family law judges elected where you live? If so, it strikes me that this might be a case where political expediency trumped correctness in law.

Google Scholar is your friend for finding studies about crossdressing and transgenderism, but beware the standard problem with social science studies: they generally don't have enough subjects to make any substantive conclusions by themselves.

It's time to get the best legal counsel you can find. S/he doesn't have to be nasty, as this will likely be frowned upon by the judge. What is required is an aggressive but professional barrister. A good barrister would have challenged her claims and attempted to have them excluded from evidence because they don't have the backing of an expert witness.

If your ex had an expert witness (psychiatrist) substantiating her claims, it may be difficult to counter them. I highly doubt a competent and unbiased psychiatrist would make such a claim, as they are untrue unless there are other personality disorders present as determined by a duly qualified and licensed individual. Members of the clergy are neither qualified nor licensed to make such diagnoses.

Here are some journal papers I posted for another member in your position a few years ago. You should be able to find them with your favourite search engine.


This is a professional journal article. Payment is required to obtain the full text.

Surprise! Men Who Cross-Dress Are Similar to Men Who Don't

Another journal article for which payment is required.

How Intimate Relationships Are Impacted When Heterosexual Men Crossdress

This one says accredited social work programs often don't include courses on dealing with crossdressing or other forms of transgenderism. The title and issue of the journal in which it appears is listed. You may be able to find this at a university where social work is taught.

Social Work Education: Implications for Working With the Transgender Community

This is a psychologist's website who deals with gender issues. Not all of the information is about transition.

Anne Vitale PhD: Notes on Gender Role Transition

This one says transvestic fetishism is not a diagnosable illness simply because society (or some members of society) says it is. The quotes are required to get it to appear at the top of search results.

"Transvestic Fetishism: Iatrogenic Artifact?"

BTW: I wouln't hold my breath waiting for DSM V, as the head of the committee studying this sort of thing is not well thought of by the transgendered community.

[sandra-leigh]

What comes to mind in this situation is "irreparable harm". As in there is little to no lasting harm to you for having a "2 week cooling off period" imposed by the courts, but there would be irreparable harm to her if you (hypothetically) took a hammer to her within that two week period. For a very short term order like that, it is almost not worth the judge considering any evidence. What are you going to do, get an emergency counter-injunction just to be able to take your kids on the thanksgiving trip? Not likely.

Now if the grandparents were dying and this time was the last time to be able to see them together, it would be a different story, but unless you are planning to prove your ex incompetent or otherwise go for sole custody, you are going to have to get accustomed to not spending every holiday with your kids. No inherent harm other than that which happens in divorce cases anyhow.

There is, of course, the matter of being more or less libeled as being "ill" or potentially violent. Lawyers can help with that issue. I would guess that there is time to file an "objection" before the order expires, but I suspect that "vacating the order" probably wouldn't get heard for some time. It is not uncommon for people in divorce situation to allege harsh things that are interpretations (or even outright fabrications), so there are probably already mechanisms to deal with the implicit libel aspect.

[ReineD]

Oh, I'm so sorry. That's terrible, but it brings up an excellent point. The law tends to favor women when it comes to these matters.

This is not true. The law favors the person who knows how to manipulate it best. Take it from a GG who ended up getting the raw end of the deal.

Get a good lawyer.

[eluuzion]

Hiya SJ,

Two things immediately (and painfully) come to my mind here…

“Loose lips sink ships”…
AND
“You don’t need to be a lawyer to be a good liar“.:daydreaming:

Every human being could be described as being “deceitful, unpredictable and ill” at some point in their lifetime. Your case is further proof that lawyers know that “it is not what people do” that is important. It is “how you present what they do in court”, that matters!

Unfortunately, the legal system and the outcome of litigation has nothing to do with what is “fair” or “not fair”; or what many would perceive to be “justice". The outcome has everything to do with what you can or cannot prove, with documented evidence, in a court of law.

Legal matters are just one more strategic game we are sometimes forced to play in life. Unfortunately, judgements/orders can be life altering, depending upon the outcome for each party. But make no mistake in perception…it is still a “game“.

Games require strategy and when emotions and lawyers get involved, all of the stops come out . It is critical to keep both of those (emotions/lawyers) in check to end up with the best result (best interest of the children).

As you have already discovered, litigation/motions, etc. have a way of immediately revealing the true character of both parties involved. Your “wife” has proven that she is willing to abandon her “moral compass” in exchange for what she perceives to be a vindictive, self-serving, short-term “victory”. (no doubt under the direction of her attorney)

She has also made that decision at the expense of your children, by placing them in the middle of HER personal battle with YOU (by attempting to “alienate their father”).

You must now decide if you want to “take her bait”, by going “ballistic”, going to battle, fighting “dirty”, etc. Rest assured that is exactly what she (and her attorney) wants you to do! This will provide them with more “proof” to be used against you later…(that what she is accusing you of is “true”).
Sadly, it is a typical legal strategy employed at this point.

The success or failure of their strategy depends upon your response. One option is to refuse to ever “bad mouth” your wife to your kids… maintain consistent contact, support and love for your kids through the entire process, regardless of the outcome with your wife.

I can guarantee you that is the ONLY thing your kids will remember (and cherish) about you now, and in the future. It is called integrity and character…which all children recognize in a parent, regardless of their age. Get an attorney that knows how to make this happen.:thumbsup:

Just my thoughts…from personal experience.:brolleyes:

Good Luck! :hugs:

:love:

[Rianna Humble]

My ex-wife was granted a restraining order against me yesterday, which prevents me from having any contact with my children through the end of the month.


maintain consistent contact, support and love for your kids through the entire process

How does that work? I would have thought it quite difficult to maintain contact when the restraining order prevents contact.

I think it is important to find a lawyer who can put across the idea that the OP is only resorting to the law because of the unreasonable behaviour of the ex-wife

[Tara D. Rose]

eluuzion, now you hit the nail on the head with this post. That is exactly how it is. I have been a victim of divorce two times in the past. This is what they do. My first ex wife took everything we had, plus used my daughter as a weapon to get at me for 18 years. Kept her away from me for all the holidays. Tried to brainwash my daughter to hate me and make me out to be a bad man. I did pick her up every two weeks as was ALLOWED by the corrupt court system. The same was with the exes of all my brothers. Lawyers get richer while the fathers get poorer.

[Marissa V]

My ex did the same, use my daughter as a weapon. Basicly she just did as she pleased hoping i woudnt object because i didnt want certain secrects to see the light of day. But i did object and so we ended up in court. And there she showed her true face. And yes it was a nasty fight. But never, and i mean NEVER, did it talk about it with my daughter. My ex was a 'dead subject', never talked about my ex with my daughter. And why? Because my daughter needed to get the idea that when she was here, all my time and attention was hers. My ex on the other hand filled my daughter with all kinds of retoric and lies... but it backfired on her. Aswell with my daughter as in court. Ofcourse you need a good lawyer in the process, but keep all the 'anti ex wife' talk for your lawyer, NEVER talk about it with your kids. They dont need to know how much you hate your ex, and they never need to get the feeling they're the stick you use to beat your ex with (wich your ex seems to do). And when your kids ask about it, stick to the facts, never let your emotions in, it only makes the facts sound way worse as they are (in kid's minds). What happened in court? The judge, apart from being smart enough to know CD is not an issue, realised my ex used my daughter as a beating stick. Result....my daughter lives here now, but...i agreed to co-parenting from the start (even in court). Why you may ask. Simple, my daughter didnt need to be the victim of my fight with my wife. WE had problems with each other, not with my daughter. And the judge recognised that...and i got my daughter, be it in a co-prarenting scheduele, but i have the final say, responsibility is all mine.

And the most unbelievable thing happened 3 days ago....ran into my ex and her new bf...and they both apologised to me, infront of my daughter, for acting like morons....

[eluuzion]

How does that work? I would have thought it quite difficult to maintain contact when the restraining order prevents contact.


Sorry if I confused you Rianna, :doh::doh:

I forgot how specific I need to be on this forum, lol.

I was referring to the ongoing “process” of dealing with the OP’s wife over thelong term, which I assumed from the context, will be going on well past dealing with the current issue of the “no-contact” order.

Specific to a “no-contact order“, they always contain specifics outlining what is “legal” in reference to the definition of “contact”. There are many ways of accomplishing consistent “contact” in terms of providing support and reinforcing love to a child beyond simple "physical" contact. A good attorney can provide a “legal” road-map with a suggestion (options) list to follow…(for those who are unable or unwilling to use their imagination).

Hey, I live in Colorado, but I maintain consistent contact, support and love for my daughter on a daily basis…and she is currently living in Australia! Go figure, eh? :brolleyes:

Hope that clears things up for you. :hugs:

Hey SJ...
I forgot to give you this link too, which may/may not give you some more general information.
http://transparentcy.org/Custody.htm

:love:

[Angela Campbell]

I can just comment on my case here but the law certainly did favor the woman. It was in a small town in GA. Both of us had decent to good lawyers. We had 3 kids 16, 14 and 6. The law allowed the two over 14 to make the decision of who they wanted to live with. I did not coerce them but they chose me because of the abuse their mother was inflicting on them. The court decided not to hear the evidence of the case after 15 minutes of court (after waiting over a year for a court date) because the judge was eager to go home that friday afternoon. The judgement was for me to get the two older kids, and her to get the youngest one. I had to pay her child support even though I had 2 kids and she had 1. My lawyer told me that I could have fought for custody of the youngest. It would cost me over $20,000 and he said I would not win. Even though I had proof of abuse to me and all 3 kids. The only thing I did that was considered wrong was that after we had been separated almost a year and had already filed for divorce, I had a girlfriend. Didn't matter that she also had a boyfriend. I lost the house, all of my belongings including clothes, family heirlooms, and anything that was in the house. I had to pay child support for years, I had to pay alimony for years, and I lived with harrassment for years. My son will still have nothing to do with her and my daughters are only slightly on friendly terms. As I said due to the physical attacks, and other abuse I had to move across the country to get away from it.

I took the high road. I never talked bad about their mother to the kids. I allowed them to call her on the phone anytime they wished to. I paid for airplane trips for visitation for my daughter to come and visit me and offerred to pay for the older ones to visit their mom. They refused. I felt like I had to do the right and honest thing so in the future I would not have to be ashamed for what I did. My kids know that now.

[alwayshave]

I can only suggest that you get a very good attorney, though in some cases it does not help. By means of a war story, I was divorced in Massachusetts, which you would believe would be an enlightened forward looking state. However, most of the judges are women, and of the variety who believe that all men are rapists, and therefore assert that the purpose of divorce is to punish men. This evidenced by child support which is twice the national average and until the legislature stepped in, alimony that only ceases upon death of the wife. I did not see my children for over two years and the court would constantly order my ex-wife to deliver the children on a particular date and time and she never would. Contempt hearings were a joke as the judge would never fine her or throw her in jail, while men in the same hearing who had missed a couple of CS payments would be forced to surrender on Friday evening to spend the weekend in the county lock up. Court appointed guardian ad litem who are all women and don't even bother to interview the father.

My point is that some courts, especially family courts, are run by women for the benefit of women. This may not be universal, but has been my experience. Thus, keep a cool head and under no circumstances violate the order. Legally work all the issues. Keep a journal of everything so that you can refer to it when the time comes. Having a chronology written down will help you in the long run especially with custody issues.

[Tara D. Rose]

StephanieJ, this is a bad situation for you. Thanksgiving is too close now for you to get anything done about seeing your children due to this new restraining order. All you can do is take whatever she throws at you. As others have mentioned, that even if she violates the original court order, and if you take her to court for contempt, the most they will do is fine her a paltry amount like $25.00 and say not do it again. I used to think that once a couple got divorced that this would be the end of the marital problems. But I have learned that it is the new beginning of problems that will go on and on until your children are grown. I call this being at the foot of the mountain and a long way to go. Just live with what they give you in court. Don't ever badmouth the ex wife to the children. One day they will know the truth. Just always be the best father you can be to them. When the corrupt family courts are in control of your children and life, they don't care about you at all.

[Jill]

Wow, a couple things grabbed my attention here. I also live in Utah, I know the incident that you are talking about, the older guy that murdered his wife, tragic story. Your wife has borderline personality disorder and is becoming a therapist?!?! I'm a mental health therapist myself and I find this to be quite alarming. That would be like... a serial criminal becoming a cop. That's the nicest way for me to put that. She takes medication and has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and you're the one that's 'ill'? Laughable... seriously...

I have worked in the system in this state long enough to know that the laws are extremely bias on behalf of women. A woman could go to a judge and cry abuse, rape, verbal threats or what have you and the judge signs the order, no questions asked, no investigations are done. I have worked with many distressed men who have their rights stripped from them and are faced with very difficult situations. A close friend of mine lost the right to see his daughter over twelve years ago and he is now just getting his rights back and isn't having to pay a mountain of child support for a child that he couldn't even see. I'm not trying to scare you here, but as a professional, I would strongly advise you to get a lawyer. NOW.

By the way, I was also recently elected to the VP of the local tri-ess chapter. Our goal for the year is to expand our numbers and reach out to those who are in need of support. We are a small group but a very good one, we have some good people who are very supportive and caring. If you need support, you can come check us out. You don't have to come in girl mode if you're not comfortable with it. Private message me if you're interested.

[sterling12]

I think that the last time we reviewed this subject, many of us advised you to get a good lawyer! That temporary restraining order is likely to get changed into a permanent one, especially if she implies that you might do her harm. Face it, The Court is always going to error on the side of CYA. If there would be the smallest chance of trouble, they don't want that trouble to come back, and be linked to The Judge who failed to grant an Order.

BUT, if you get proper legal representation, you should get reasonable visitation rights. Your being transgendered has NOTHING to do with your relationship with your children. If you haven't involved the kids in any way, it is not germaine! Even in Rural Utah, they can't unreasonably punish you for something like this. If you do start to get flak, also involve The ACLU, and do it quick!

Now, we are going to advise you one more time. Quit being The Patsy! Your letting your soon-to-be Ex play offense, and you just sit around and take it! She's not going to come back! She's made up her mind! Protect your self and your Rights, and do it now. After this is finished, do your grieving, pick up the pieces, and move on with your life. That's what you should do, because that's all you can do!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[JamieQ]

I have not ever been a victim of something like this, but I was a court interpreter for about 6 years. I was involved in a few cases like this, and I have seen lots waiting for our cases to come up. In the states I worked in, usually a temporary order is granted in favor of whoever gets there first, to make the complaint. Then a few days or weeks later the judge hears both sides of the story and if there is enough evidence that there is a THREAT to a party, then a permanent one for like a year is granted. I do not see a crossdresser as a threat here but Utah may be different. A judge almost always grants a temporary one on a complaint. I reread the original post and the statement that no physical threat exists, I cannot believe the judge granted it. I would say it is temporary until the next hearing. A good laywer could probably get this dismissed upon the fact that no threat exists. But again I worked in different states. I would probably leave the pastor out of this, but then it seems like the more character witnesses someone has, the better. Whos "side" is the pastor on anyway?

If a pastor has been involved in counceling for this in the past, then how is this crossdressing "hidden"?

[Alice B]

I would do both, with the attorney on top of the list. I would also report her ebhaviour to her school. She should not be counciling anyone.

[sandra-leigh]

I would do both, with the attorney on top of the list. I would also report her ebhaviour to her school. She should not be counciling anyone.

Taking into account only what has been posted on this thread (because I haven't gone back to read others by the same poster), I would suggest that at present there is too little to go on to report her at this time. I would suggest that the time to report her would not be until after a judge had ruled that there was no credible threat. Until that time, it becomes a matter of "perception", she just has to say she "perceived" a threat, and unless / until such a threat is deemed totally without foundation, she would be considered to be within her rights and right mind, and a professional body would not want to act as if she was not unless the claim was obvious blatant nonsense or paranoia (which, cyclically, she can claim it wasn't, seeing as the judge was willing to grant the temporary order.) Reporting her at this time could be all too easily be turned against you, as "evidence" that you are ill-willed and "out to get revenge". Wait and see what the next hearing has to say about her conduct.

However, in the meantime, it would probably be a good idea to research what her school teaches about cross-dressing and gender issues. If the school itself teaches that it isn't an illness, then she is going against the school and should have known better than to claim it was illness (provided, that is, that she has taken that unit / class already). If the school itself teaches that it is a form of illness, then reporting her to her school would accomplish nothing immediately productive. Reporting her could, in such a situation, be part of setting up to force the school itself to revoke such a hypothetical teaching as being not in accordance with accepted professional practice.

I have lost track for the moment of whom is having which difficulty. Stephanie, is your wife studying at a "Christian" university? If so then reporting her on this issue would possibly be of little benefit, as the "illness" perspective might be in line with the university teachings.

[Kate T]

A little background - I have dressed in private since before we were married and her acceptance level waxed and waned. She is a therapist in training who suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder and has been on various psychotropic drugs. Two weeks ago my 76 year old neighbor went senile and murdered his wife with a hammer. The man was a friend who I knew well and in a Facebook post I said that I sympathized with him prayed for him. Apparently my ex took this as a threat.
...
Any other sage advice???

Yes. Stop using Facebook!!!

Going through your past posts you seem to be a nice enough person. I must admit I find it extraordinary that the judge would grant that order based just on a Facebook comment and the cross dressing (why on earth you guys don't have nationwide anti discrimination laws is beyond me!). It would seem likely on appeal that the order would be thrown out (certainly in Australia the CD'ing thing wouldn't even be considered relevant by a judge). The only other sage advice I would give is make sure that your house and you are as safe as possible in the eyes of the law, i.e. if you have any weapons, lose them!

And BTW to anyone out there supporting or proposing the theory that men get a "raw deal" from your justice system, according to your own FBI data in 2011 over 3 times more homicides were committed by males against females than by females against males in 2011
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6
So if there is a bias towards women by the legal and judicial system, it is justified!!!

[Jenniferathome]

I am stunned at the overall "conclusion" drawn by the responders. Has no one heard of presumption of innocence? In this case, the wife of the Stephanie. One party in an argument offered no details except that they were railroaded. Is it the majority belief that the judgement came solely due to crossdressing? Is justice that brainless? Here is my immediate reaction to the OP: what are you not telling us? No one removes parents rights so cavalierly.

[Angela Campbell]

Actually a presumtion of innocence only is used in criminal procedings. The government against you. In civil cases where it is one person or group against another this does not apply at all. They only need a preponderance of the evidence not even beyond a reasonable doubt. Just a slight tipping of the scales. Yes it happens all the time that parental rights are removed with even less reason. Many times just because a judge just doesn't want to hear it and does what is easiest. Usually in the favor of the mother, as most of the court system views the Mother as the true parent and the father as just a provider.

Something else you may not know. In some states there is NO APPEAL for this type of judgement. It is usually temporary until the end of the divorce case and this can sometimes last for years. Again ...NO appeal whatsoever. I ran into this. I was ordered a temporary order by a circuit judge that basically gave my soon to be ex my entire paycheck per month except for $200 (about 20 yrs ago) AND gave me 2 kids to live with me to support. At that time a small apartment was around $600 a month and I was earning around $2000 take home. So on a temp order I got to keep 10% of my take home pay and support 2 kids while she kept 1 of our kids. I had a good lawyer and there was nothing that could be done until the divorce was finalized.

Also know there was no abuse from me towards her whatsoever. Not physical, not verbal nothing. She decided she didn't want to be married anymore, asked me to move out and six months later found out I had a new girlfriend, (she also had a new boyfriend) and she became enraged and started a war. Her behavior eventually caused all of our kids to avoid her for years as she was very abusive to all of us for years. The law not only allowed it but supported it. I will not say this happens to all men, and I will not say many women do not also get the short end of the stick, but sometimes it is just unbelievable what can happen.

[heatherdress]

In addition to a good attorney, find a good therapist for yourself. Take care of yourself. Work out. Embrace friends. Go to church. Stay focused at work. Stay close to other family members. Take care of - you. Things with your children will work out. Give it time. Don't get discouraged. Make the most of the time you spend with your children. Do what is best for them and always show them and tell them how much you love them. Make plans. Set goals. Enjoy the moments. Things will get better. Good luck. This is very difficult but so many of us have gone through what you are going through now.

[Tara D. Rose]

The law tends to favor women when it comes to these matters.
This line is so true. Very True.

[brandi]

My ex wife was granted a restraining order against me, by lying to the judge,saying I was abusing her and threatening her and my kids with no proof at all. It was all lies, but when I went into court with my attorney, she didn't have to admit to anything. I started recoring our conversations and got her to admit that she lied and she was trying to keep my daughters from me because I wouldn't give her money. I eventually got custody, but it was expensive(worth every penny) and extremely mentally tough. Recordings can't be used in court, but they can be used in negotiations. Good Luck.

Brandi

[heatherdress]

I thought this site was to provide help and support to our members - not to judge, not to determine the "innocence" of a spouse, not to be critical of a member asking for help, and not to question a member's honesty ("what are you not telling us?"). Stephanie is in need of support, not criticism.

[Brenda456]

Unfortunately, in cases of alleged domestic violence, the laws are very one sided. They are written be politicians and it is politically correct to favor victims who more often than not are women. The battle ground will be in the divorce court. Hiring a good lawyer (not necessarily the nastiest) is the way to go.

[Nicole Erin]

Yes. Stop using Facebook!!!
That is right. Anymore, just using facebook is evidence of a crime or something bad. You already know when people try to find "dirt" on anyone that is the first place they look. Someone posts something mundane like, "So tired today" and that is somehow proof that they did something, why else would they be so tired? Well you see the point anyways.

But your being CD does not automatically mean you will lose the battle. Now that she has brought that out, what more can she use? For some, using that against a CD is like the main weapon. Once that round is spent, they don't have much.
Plus, I have known men and a TS in real life who won custody. In the TS's case, her ex wife was some party and drug addict.
If you can somehow prove she is an unfit mother, she could lose.
These days, the law is still normally on the woman's side but more men are winning.

[DonniDarkness]

GO and get a Qualified GENDER THERAPIST. Tell them your situation, get a written document stating that you are mentally healthy.

The whole case could be thrown out on her conjecture, she is not a legal licensed therapist. So what she says in court is JUST HER OPINION.

A Legal, Licensed Therapist is where you need to start. Then get an attorney with marital and family law experience.

The pastor route is great but you need LEGAL GROUND to stand on not Holy Ground. Continue to speak with him but understand that once the court is involved all the things you need to move forwrd must be documented by Licensed Proffesionals.

Best of Luck to you,
-Donni-

[StephanieJ]

You are all brilliant and so kind!!! Thank you so so much for the excellent advice.

Now let me add an X-Factor.

My wife's brother has been living with us for nearly a year. He is a disabled veteran who is severely obese and does not work. I've always gotten along with him but he can be a bit "weird" at times and is highly opinionated. I found out that my wife is representing herself with his advice. He's also the one trying to alienate my kids from me. He leaves loaded guns lying around the house and is often left alone with the kids. What do you think my chances are of having him removed from the home?

On a side note, I'm meeting with three different attorneys next week and will select one to represent me. One is good but over priced so I'm ruling that one out. Other two are reasonable, but not quite as aggressive. One is male and the other is female. I hate to bring gender into it but I think having a female counselor might give me an advantage. Agree of disagree?

[DebbieL]

You are all brilliant and so kind!!! Thank you so so much for the excellent advice.
Now let me add an X-Factor.

My wife's brother has been living with us for nearly a year. He is a disabled veteran who is severely obese and does not work. I've always gotten along with him but he can be a bit "weird" at times and is highly opinionated. I found out that my wife is representing herself with his advice. He's also the one trying to alienate my kids from me. He leaves loaded guns lying around the house and is often left alone with the kids. What do you think my chances are of having him removed from the home?

Whose name is on the title? Who's name is on the rent check or house payment? Does he pay rent? Is the amount he pays appropriate to the services he gets? If you pay the rent or the house is in your name, and you sign the house payments, and you are not being compensated for his share of the rent, then you have the right to expel him from the house, but I strongly recommend that you get a lawyer. You have to do it in a legal way. If he has ever pointed a weapon at you or your kids, made a verbal threat, or has acted violent to you, or if he has made statements of violence toward homosexuals or cross-dressers, then you could probably get a restraining order. If possible, get it on record, an audio recording or a video recording would be perfect. That would be enough to document not only that he is a clear and immediate threat to your safety. Don't do anything without a lawyer. She has probably been planning the divorce for several months, even a few years. If you go in half-cocked with do-it-yourself unsubstantiated accusations, you might be the one with the restraining order removing you from the home while you are court ordered to pay half after-tax income as child support.


On a side note, I'm meeting with three different attorneys next week and will select one to represent me. One is good but over priced so I'm ruling that one out. Other two are reasonable, but not quite as aggressive. One is male and the other is female. I hate to bring gender into it but I think having a female counselor might give me an advantage. Agree of disagree?

Make sure that each knows that you are transgender. Don't be snowed into thinking that you won't have to pay - make sure you understand your odds of winning, your obligations, and the lawyer's attitude toward your dressing. If the woman is a fundamentalist Christian who says, yes, if you pay me enough I can help you, then run the other way. If they start asking about how much your house is worth and how much you owe, and how much you have in your 401K, IRA, and other accounts - BEFORE deciding to represent you, thank them for their time - there are some lawyers who will litigate even when they know you have no chance of winning.

[Tara D. Rose]

Make sure that each knows that you are transgender. Don't be snowed into thinking that you won't have to pay - make sure you understand your odds of winning, your obligations, and the lawyer's attitude toward your dressing. If the woman is a fundamentalist Christian who says, yes, if you pay me enough I can help you, then run the other way. If they start asking about how much your house is worth and how much you owe, and how much you have in your 401K, IRA, and other accounts - BEFORE deciding to represent you, thank them for their time - there are some lawyers who will litigate even when they know you have no chance of winning.

This is so very true DebbieL. These attorneys get you in their office and go over a huge load of paperwork wanting to know how much you make, how much money do you have? They will represent a man with full knowledge that his client doesn't have a chance of getting custody of the children. Everyone says to get a good lawyer. Aren't they all good lawyers? The lawyers go through the motions. They will answer your questions. They want your money, that's why they are lawyers. One of my lawyers got me in trouble when my ex took me back to court for $100.00 more per week on top of what I was already paying her. We left the court, the judge did not rule at that time but said he would later. The judge sent the new order to my attorney. Well I didn't know that. I got a letter to appear in court for failing to follow the new order. I went to my attorney, showed it to him, he said, oh yeah, I think I remember that one. He looked around and found the new order on his desk. He gave it to me and asked, you do have the $2000.00 don't you? I said, yes I do, but what about this hearing?
He said just go pay the arrearage and I'll call the judge. He did call the judge and sent me another bill for calling the judge in the amount of $500.00 to get me out of the mess that his negligence caused, and that was on top of his regular fee, plus it was oredred to take it straight from my paycheck with a 2% fee to do so, and the courts charged me a 2% fee for doing the whole transaction every week. ok, so maybe he wasn't a good lawyer.

[heatherdress]

Stephanie - Select your attorney first. Select the most competent lawyer. Do not get caught up with a gender issue. Pick the one you think is best. Then let her or him advise you on how to deal with your brother-in-law. Try to keep these issues unemotional for both your sake and your children.

[StephanieJ]

Stephanie - Select your attorney first. Select the most competent lawyer. Do not get caught up with a gender issue. Pick the one you think is best. Then let her or him advise you on how to deal with your brother-in-law. Try to keep these issues unemotional for both your sake and your children.

Best advice yet. I meet with one tomorrow and the other on Tues. Pray for me my sisters.

UPDATE!!!

Went to court today with a very successful outcome. The judge dismissed the order with prejudice and best of all he refused to hear any testimony regarding cross dressing. I was VERY impressed with his demeanor and encouraged that things are going well. Now I'm so excited to see my kids that it brings me to tears just thinking about it. Since our first was born, I've never been more than a week without seeing them.

Group hug to all,
Steph

[MonctonGirl]

Honestly -

1 - Congratulations for not losing your mind. Dealing with someone who is insane is terribly taxing, because they ( and most other people ) do not know they are insane.

2 - A good lawyer will advise you that if you fight the order, she will probably claim that you sexually abused your children.

3 - weak people need to "win".

4 - If you can PROVE that she has be DIAGNOSED with BPD ... you can maybe , after a long fight, realize you lose.

5 - Get a SENSIBLE lawyer who has good PSYCHIATRIC friends or has dealt with many cases LIKE THIS.
( Best Divorce lawyer in the world is no good for the dude on trial for murder ... and vice versa )

6 - Set a 2 year plan to have her removed from the children's lives completely ... but only if you are willing
to be the sole parent and can deal with her being institutionalized due her intentional damage to your
children's development. After all, you dress in women's clothing for recreation and act like a woman
just as some people do Shakespeare in the park and pretend they are Romeo.

This is about power and winning for her. There is no "compromise". She will not stop unless you are jailed.
She WANTS you to react and give her an EXCUSE to call the police.

SHE WANTS THIS... so she can tell your kids what a nutbar you are.

Go seek legal remedy for THAT behavior on her part.

But understand, the best thing you might be able to do is


Get a JUDGE ( same one who granted the ORDER ) to mediate a session where you send a lawyer to her & her lawyer
( you are NOT present )
where your lawyer ASKS for rights to give Xmas presents
and ASKS for a counselor to talk to your children ( one YOU hire ) about the mom dad issues and help them cope & understand

She would be shown as a NUT for denying this.

The person you hire can tell them their mother is mentally ill ( depending how old they are ) and that you want to see them but she has told lies and you don't want her to take it out on them or whatever.

Truth is ... for your own safety & fredom, you need to SAVE YOURSELF.
See, if you get jailed or shot by police and one day mom decides to kill herself or gets killed lipping off to another person


.... you can't help your kids.

So ... save yourself first.


I have lots of evidence to refute her allegations, but what I would love to have is a scientific study of some sort stating that Transgenderism is neither an illness nor is it dangerous. Perhaps I'll have to wait until the new DSM V comes out...


This isn't the point. It's only a "nitpick" for her. Truly, the CD life probably HUMILIATED her ... and she must now punish you/

But ... don't make your argument include a legal activity ... don't defend it ... it's not the issue.

[sandra-leigh]

The judge dismissed the order with prejudice

Excellent!

Does "with prejudice" in this situation mean that she is responsible for your costs, or does it mean that she is prohibited from re-filing for the order?



2 - A good lawyer will advise you that if you fight the order, she will probably claim that you sexually abused your children.

That may yet happen, but Steph won this fight; there is now no restraining order.

It is within the realm of irrationality that Steph's wife will claim abuse as happening the very first time that Steph gets to see the kids alone, which claim Steph could take steps to defend against, such as (without the wife's knowledge) not actually being alone with the kids, so that bogus claims can be dismissed by witnesses. Or steps such as secretly wearing a "wire" or a mic which is transmitting to a recorder, again to provide evidence of what was said or not said.

Anyhow, whatever is done, best not to bad-mouth the wife, and if the kids ask why Steph didn't see them, Steph should be careful not to answer with anything that could be considered to blame the wife. Blame "the court" if need be. "The court had some things that had to be checked out; that took a while and now we can see each other again."

[Amanda_P]

I am really suprised at all the legal advice you can find here. I'm sorry about your situation but damb I'm inpressed. I didn't know there was so many differant fields and people in our circle of forums. I guess what I have been telling my wife jokingly is true. WE ARE EVERWHERE

[Vanessa5]

I would like to say what a great outcome. I have had a similar thing happen to me 18years ago. She got a restraining order and I lost out on seeing my child ever again. At that time, when my crossdressing was brought up, my layer bailed and I couldn't afford another retainer.

[Alice B]

Great outcome so far. Hope it continues and everything resolves itself in a fair manner. I would make sure the brother-in-law can not have loaded guns that are no locked up.

[Julogden]

Whatever you do, make sure that you nothing to violate the order, things could get much worse.


I must admit I find it extraordinary that the judge would grant that order based just on a Facebook comment and the cross dressing (why on earth you guys don't have nationwide anti discrimination laws is beyond me!). It would seem likely on appeal that the order would be thrown out (certainly in Australia the CD'ing thing wouldn't even be considered relevant by a judge).

There's a lot of resistance against anti-discrimination laws for LGBT people in the US, even from many members of these forums, believe it or not.

Carol

[TxKimberly]

UPDATE!!!

Went to court today with a very successful outcome. The judge dismissed the order with prejudice and best of all he refused to hear any testimony regarding cross dressing. I was VERY impressed with his demeanor and encouraged that things are going well. Now I'm so excited to see my kids that it brings me to tears just thinking about it. Since our first was born, I've never been more than a week without seeing them.



Group hug to all,
Steph


Good for you! I just cant imagine being told that I couldnt see my babies . ..

[Rianna Humble]

Please remember this very basic rule of thumb. LAWYERS can be fired!

Why should Stephanie fire the lawyer who just helped her to win the case?

[MonctonGirl]

... He leaves loaded guns lying around the house... What do you think my chances are of having him removed from the home?


High. HOWEVER, the chances are higher that the kids will be removed from the home. At the moment, they may not be placed with YOU... and may end up in Foster Care. WAIT until your ducks are in a row to play THAT card.




On a side note, I'm meeting with three different attorneys next week and will select one to represent me. One is good but over priced so I'm ruling that one out.

The only thing more expensive than GOOD advice is BAD advice ... so it comes down to what you can get for your money.



Other two are reasonable, but not quite as aggressive. One is male and the other is female. I hate to bring gender into it but I think having a female counselor might give me an advantage. Agree of disagree?

These days, there is no shock or sympathy factor to having a female attorney and depending on who makes the decision, they may see that as a sympathy ploy.

ASK the candidates what successes they have had in cases LIKE YOURS ( it doesn't matter how many millions they got for divorce clients or how many murders their clients got away with ... what matters is how many men with crazy wives got their kids back or at least out of danger. )

SEEK an attorney with intention to protect the children.
If that is not your intention, let it be, or they will see through you.
This CANNOT be about "winning" for you .... it MUST be about "winning" for the weaker party. At the moment we deem that to be your wife because we only know one side of it.

Give your attorney FULL DISCLOSURE when they ask for it - or they will be hit with surprises and you lose ( and you don't get your money back )